Original Tweed Vs Blackface Fender Bassman though the same Speaker Cabinet!

I compare an original 1959 Fender Bassman to a 1967 Fender Bassman though the same 1971 Marshall 1960A 4x12 Speaker cabinet using a 2008 Gibson Les Paul R9.
Gear:
1959 Fender Bassman Tweed 5F6A
1967 Fender Bassman Blackface AB165
2008 Gibson Les Paul R9 with a Seymour Duncan Alnico 2 Pro in the bridge.
SM57 and MD421U5 close mics and M160 room mic

[@ColeDrankWilly]

The 59’ sounds absolutely magical. It’s so chewy and so alive. I bet it’s such a great feeling on the fingertips to play through it cranked.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Yeah the dynamics of that amp is unmatched

[@profile_01]

'67 more compressed while the '59 more open sounding and alive

[@frankscassi4960]

Oh God. They both sound unreal. In my opinion these are two of the best tones you ever recorded

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Frank! Glad to hear it!

[@anthonycamillos3719]

Proof that the magic is in the cab! They honestly both sounded absolutely killer. I'm sure they felt different in the room, but I could only hear a bit more bass out of the '67

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Anthony!

[@hkguitar1984]

Anthony Camillos So true Anthony, cab and speakers are possible the most important items that shape the final tone.

[@herickvar8608]

​@@hkguitar1984 What do You recomend?

[@hkguitar1984]

@@herickvar8608 It is difficult to recommend a cab/speaker combination as your style of playing and audible senses are unique to yourself. What I will recommend is give speaker and cabinet selection as high of priority as possible. Try different speaker types and brands as well as different cabinet selections. Obviously this is much more difficult than auditioning different pickups, however in my opinion, speaker selection is just as if not more important that what brand or type of pickup you use. Another piece of advice, don't expect to find a single amplifier that will do it all. Looking back over my 45 years of playing I've realized that, if I could start over I would own only one to two guitars and many different amplifiers. If there is a specific sound/tone you are looking to recreate, start with your speakers and/or amplifier. i hope this helps.

[@herickvar8608]

@@hkguitar1984 jojo wow thats a really helpful answer, that clears up a lot. This morning I ask a guy the same question and he answer was very similar, same idea. Thanks for the answer lml

[@Cyberbehni]

Wow, that 67 sounds amazing. Great vid as always, dear Johan

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Christoph!

[@michaelgriffin5304]

Your comparisons are always so well done. Thank you for filming these! I have a Rivera Clubster Royale that seeks to hit Tweed and Blackface tones in one amp. Did a pretty damn good job!

[@strings2wood]

Nobel Peace Prize for Tone right here.

[@amo-zy4iq]

Holy smokes! The 59 with the ECC83 is to die for.

[@NoOne-sn2si]

The '59 originally took a 12AY7 as the first preamp tube, which has about half (44) the gain of a 12AX7 (100), IIRC. The 12AX7 will definitely make the '59 sound dirtier. The 12AU7 (ECC82) has a gain of about 20, so it's a dog in this amp. All blackface amp are the "kings of clean" compared to the tweed amps.

[@cgavin1]

Wow! Whatever you changed to the mic/mix really made a huge difference in this video. Absolutely massive sound! Can hear so much 'more' nuance than previously.

[@94Shredder]

Surprisingly I think I like the 67 better. Way more clarity!!!!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Nick!

[@DMSProduktions]

More MIDS!

[@jegr3398]

There's something special about the CBS Blackface Bassmans, they have an added gain stage over the pre CBS, the blackface Bassman is also different from the typical AB763 circuit.

[@MrBallynally2]

Does not surprise me.with the kind of rock sound Johan is going for the extra cleanness of the 67 just gives more note separation compared to the Tweed when the amp is really pushed. Rock vs rocknroll if you will..

[@DMSProduktions]

@@MrBallynally2 Tweeds were always a bit muffled/compressed!

[@Andy_Yates]

I'm going to miss the premier, but I KNOW this will sound epic!! Two of my favorite amps and I am lucky enough to have a '65. Can't wait to watch this later, thanks Johan!

[@bigbenbold]

Wow Johan, some killer tones there - both amps sound amazing through that cab!

[@jasonkirkham550]

You have the best life right now. Cool gear and great tones.

[@less_concerned1221]

Oh my God Johan! That sounded great! I had no idea the ‘67 Bassman could hang with the ‘59. Goes to show what you are always preaching about speakers having a huge impact!

[@smellytele9629]

sounds phenomenal as usual!! Thanks for posting!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks!

[@precisionbrown6829]

They sound very similar. What a great year they were ❤️

[@TheDogPa]

My '58 bassman, repaired in early 70s with a 4ohm '60 OT, Into my 4x12, especially with a high gain pedal...IS DEADLY! :O) Buddy Holly...or Sabbath...unreal!

[@alejandrogabasabarcoj8658]

Great job man amazin tone and playing

[@jcoulter43]

‘67, but only by a nose. Both sound glorious. God bless and rock on 🤘

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks brother! :-) Rock on!

[@riccibungag4257]

The ‘67 sounds like a pissed off ‘59.

[@ac81017]

Bassman is my kind of tone. Simply stunning. Greats video as usual 👍

[@43dukedog]

Wow both sound huge even on my cellphone

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Chris! :-)

[@NPGANDERSSON]

If I'd had to pick it'd been one in the left channel and the other one in the right. Great riffing as always Johan, cheers!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man, Cheers! :-)

[@raphaeljung6722]

Blackface 1967 with ECC83 for me ;). Cheers, rock on!

[@jwmcmillenii]

Killer tones all around, but, my goodness, that 67 sounds IMMENSE!

[@riffsnoleads]

The 67 is certainly a much tighter sounding machine, but I get the distinct feeling the 59 combined with a Proco Rat would be snarly heaven. I like snarl.

[@SlinkyT82]

Besides a desire to one day play through a cranked plexi, watching your channel has shown me just how important the speaker (and cab after that) is to the overall tone.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man!

[@kenevil1]

Thanks

[@stefftrim]

Finally I go to listen close a “Opening Night” Johan. I closed my eyes and heard the Basemann with 12AX7/ ecc83 tube in first preamp stage; I heard sounds very close to my jtm45 1964. Having connected the amp to pulsonic speakers made both amps “speak” wonderful “hi-fi full tone” mono 👂Trevlig helg, Johan

[@marksguitars5617]

very nice, Johan, two great amps! I like how the blackface sounds a bit more than the tweed especially in the lower register but both sound fantastic. I had a 65 blackface Bandmaster that I played through a mid 70s 1960A that was a great tone too, amp was stolen unfortunately. Great work always, stay safe and have a great weekend!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man, have a great weekend!

[@eppleheid]

If you ever wondered what the beginning of the Universe sounded like, just listen to Johan playing through a pair of Fender Bassmans

[@seanwoodburn2616]

Not a bad sound in any of them. I have owned all three. Still have the '59. I have to mic it on any decent stage as I usually push it to that point where it is JUST breaking up. Amazingly lyrical there. Usually a Strat with 1 and 2 on or a Les Paul with 90% neck pickup. With these settings I can get a chiming sound for something like the rhythm parts on Long Train Running and then increase attack to get just enough dirt for a solo. Don't have to touch a knob or use a pedal Great content as usual!

[@Andy_Yates]

They sound closer to my ears than I expected! The 59 was more compressed where the 67 was more open sounding. The 59 felt a little smoother and looser. The tweed reminded me more of like, rockin' dirty blues where the '67 ventured into 70s and 80s territory to me with how crisp and grindy it gets. They both sound absolutely divine!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Andy! That’s a good characterization. Cheers

[@srxiii2261]

I should start using my 67 bassman more....

[@kengevers8738]

Johan, it would have been interesting to hear these amps as they left the factory. They both sound very good in this demo. Thanks

[@Superchixxx]

Badass! Both of them 🤘

[@revelry1969]

Wow. That ‘67 .... cab definitely colors that tone

[@georgefromgreece4119]

When I think of electric guitar a tweed tone comes in mind... this comparison clearly shows why.

[@User-jk8wq]

The 59 has that valve rectifier sag/compression in buckets, whereas the 67 is tighter and has a bit more low midrange. Both sound amazing!

[@jayguitar]

Johan, watching your channel is gonna turn into a rather expensive hobby for me I think 😂 so much cool gear! I took delivery of two 1978 Celestion G12-80 speakers a couple of days ago. They are the T3047 with the aluminium dust cap. Got them at a bargain price! £100 for both. One installed in a 1x12 cab and sounding totally amazing! Second being installed in another 1x12 cab tomorrow - that cab sounds even better then my other one as it is oversized so I can imagine that the speaker will sound really really spectacular in that! Anyways, back to this video - wow! The 67 sounds phenomenal. Both amps sound great - 67 to my ears has a little moe thickness to it and thump which I like. Btw, I am now looking for a Boss GE-7 pal thanks to your video about it.... like I said, turning into an expensive hobby! Great video dude! Have an amazing weekend.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Hahaha! Thanks Jay and congrats on the G12-80s. Those are great speakers. Have a great weekend!

[@glorideefaithperez2858]

Shocked that the BF Bassman sounds tighter, more defined, yet still massive and grinding. The BF with ECC82 (12AU7) sounded best to me. An ECC83 in the Tweed made it lose too much definition.

[@tommyconancoates7097]

I like the 67 better, sounds more defined and focused

[@timetraveler8777]

Great amps and speaker !!

[@timearll266]

I had a ‘67 bassman, best amp I ever owned! 💪

[@buzzcrumhunger7114]

A similar AB165 head was my #1 amp for most of the 90s... I sure do miss it. Thinking of cloning one for myself in the not-too-distant future. I always used the Bass channel and a closed-back 2x12 cab and it thumped like a bass with my Strat and, yes, a Metal Zone for distortion sounds. I guess it annoyed some people. Not me :)

[@karst41]

No contest ,,67 is a bad bad boy Rock On!

[@poornoodle9851]

Great video as always! Both sound great but I prefer the 59. More bite!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks!

[@FunkHitsTheFan]

I have a 5f6a clone and a 65 blackface Bassman, I run them together and it's absolute heaven.

[@gib412]

I'm liking the 67 a bit more.

[@pedraw]

I certainly prefer the ECC 82 over the 83 in both amps. Both amps are very close to my ears so i wouldn't argue if I had to use either one. The speaker cab is the secret sauce I think

[@plywoodcarjohnson5412]

A sidenote : The tonewood debate.. I certainly never hear any difference. But I suddenly realized... there Has to be difference. Think of a resonator. The metallic sound.. so whatever you use must affect the tone. But the amp is of course the main ingredient. Still there has to be slight differences. I think it is in the saddle. Try a wooden saddle. Then put screws in the saddle (onetracked screws) lay the string in the track of the screw and that's where the difference is. Remove the screw again and simply put the string on the wood. It sounds much better. I think it is time to scrap metallic saddles. Anyway great upload thx!

[@johncarpenter440]

The 67 was nice. But that 59 was absolutely B(ad)ass, man. I could see how some people like the 67 better. But for me it was 59 all the way. The Tweed Twin is my ideal guitar tone, but the Tweed Bassman through a 4x12" is pretty much in the same place. Rett Shull, on his channel, interviewed Joe Bonamassa about Tweed amps. JB was convinced that Celestions really complimented Tweed style amps even more than what Fender was putting in them at the time (Jansen?). Certainly sounds like it could be true here. Thanks for the video!

[@Beizeiten78]

I have a ‘67 Blackface head and it rocks... I did add a post phase inverter master volume, but stock otherwise. Try jumping the channels... it’s amazing!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Cool, I haven’t tried that yet on this one!

[@Beizeiten78]

@@JohanSegeborn It’s nice because both channels are EQed quite different, so you get more preamp gain and blending the volumes has a lot of tonal range. Not all Bassman circuits have the channels in phase, but the AB165 circuit in that Bassman has them in phase. Try it, you’ll love it.

[@aaronlsuton]

A world without johan and this channel is like a world without chocolate 🍫

[@onewiththings]

I want that 67!

[@darrenc8776]

There both great Johan. Could you play though both amps together? Great stuff as ever

[@JulienMENARD]

Great to compare them in a video and hear it clearly, with nice playin and tone. I keep on my position, i prefer 67 bassman, i also like the way he reacts with pedals, it's pretty damn amazing, i got to search for this head, seriously !!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man!

[@N0Camping4U]

Give us a version using a Fender guitar and a Fender cab!!! Please! This is huge!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks is coming up soon!

[@maxcreed]

Hi Johan. If you want to change the sound of the blackface in the first stages, you need to change the V3 tube. V1 is used for the bass channel (that's why the sound is always the same with the 67 in the video). Unlike others amps like Marshalls (for example), in a AB165 when you plug your guitar in the normal channel, the signal go thru V3 then V2 (1 stage) and V4 and then the power amplifier stage. Otherwise very good video !

[@07parachute]

They both sound great. 67 with ECC82 was interesting, sounded tightest to me.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Emre!

[@gerryloughran1676]

Great tones and both great amps ...hard to tell but the 83s would be my pick ...more depth and growl ...cool

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Gerry!

[@brozio77]

67 for me but both very very good. if only i could afford also only a silverface one. bassman best amp ever 😊

[@philfitzsimmons616]

I love the resonance and amazing blend of tone of the 59 on rhythm chords but the 67 sounds better on lead.

[@ExAerospace]

Hey Johan! Try a 12ax7 in the phase inverter of the blackface instead of the 12at7. On the AB165 you should be able to jumper channels plexi style. I have a '65 Deluxe (non reverb) and the 12ax7 really does it. Also, just a clean boost in front of it is killer! Thanks!

[@cullenj7501]

59 all day!, Thx Johan!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks!

[@SuprachargerMusic]

The 67 bassman is straight Marshall!

[@carlosrodriguez4723]

I prefer ECC82(12AU7) insted of ECC83(12AX7). Perhaps because in my amp I used the ECC82 and I'm in love with that tube.

[@TheChadPad]

I love that Tweed. That is the sound of rock.

[@Dagger_323]

The '67 is the clear winner for me. More focused and doesn't become all fizzy the way the tweed Bassman does. Though after taking inspiration from the video you posted a few weeks ago of this Bassman head through the Marshall cab, I recently picked up a vintage blackface '66 Bandmaster with upgraded 50 watt Mercury Magnetics transformer (essentially turning it into a Bassman without the Bass channel) so I may be slightly biased... ;-)

[@JohanSegeborn]

;-)

[@Stratman78]

Both Bassman amps sound incredible through the Marshall cab, but the '67 is THE winner for me. The '59 is a close second.

[@VintageRadius]

Johan, it would be interesting so see a decibel meter in the background of your videos! I bet that was loud! Im glad you wear hearing protect.

[@JohanSegeborn]

These are 45-50W amps so with a 4x12 of speakers with a 97dB sensitivity the level is 117 -3 +3 +3 = 120dB since they’re almost cranked. If the amps were 100W instead you add another 3dB (123dB) and if you use a full stack yet another 3dB (126dB)

[@goobiecaro8135]

I felt the 1967 had better overall presence and clarity. Maybe the tube rectifier played a roll...? I had a 1968 A/B167 Bassman head and every now again I regret selling it. As always: Nice demo.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! Yeah the different rectifiers are indeed a significant difference

[@uvhciM]

The Tweed has a flatter frequency response in general, with more presence/high frequencies. Also, the '67 has a bit of a low-midrange hump. I'd love to know exactly what in the circuit of the '67 is contributing to this. I'd also be curious to hear the bright switch on in the '67 with this setup. If you can find one or mod one of yours, it would be great to hear an AB165 w/AA864 power section mod w/fixed bias in contrast to these, with this speaker setup. They sound fantastic.

[@Ridgeback65]

Close call but the ‘67 by a hair. Tasty riffs as usual! Did Ace ever use either for recordings??

[@kearneydillon4803]

I thought 59 for sure.....until I heard the 67!!

[@willdenham]

God they sound similar!

[@00groove]

Very nice!! I'm really wondering how the ecc83 sounds in comparison to the ecc82 with both amps on the edge of breakup.... please ;-)

[@hailmaryrecordings8255]

The Blackface is amazing. I’m buying one. I have a tweed reissue, but that blackface kills.

[@kosmicwizard]

I modded my 67 black panel, from a AB165 circuit to the AA864 specs and the bass channel to tweed 5F6-A (JTM45) specs. Absolutely nothing but killer!

[@Hillelfan02]

I just bought a 66 AB165, I’ve been thinking about modding the normal channel to the AA864 circuit, how does the sound change after you do the mod? And did you convert it fully or just change certain parts like the preamp section?

[@kosmicwizard]

@@Hillelfan02 AA864 is a cleaner weaker tone, also it prevents you from being able to jumper the 2 channels, as you can with AB165, since the channels are out of phase in the AA864 circuit. The mods I had done were extensive but changed nothing about the audio signal after the phase inverter. My advice regarding your amp is, try it before you do anything, and only mod it if you are unhappy with something as the value will drop. No 1966 Bassman is ever going to be a 1960 tweed. And as it is, the AB165 circuit is better for classic rock n roll and blues, whereas the AA864 circuit is better for surf. Cheers.

[@Hillelfan02]

@@kosmicwizard I am looking to make the amp more articulate and open sounding, would the aa864 conversion do this to the amp? I like the sound I already have but if I could get a more open/articulate sound then I’d do the conversion

[@kosmicwizard]

@@Hillelfan02 hey Colby, if you're using Humbuckers the high impedance input would help, and try putting a patch cable between the normal and bass channels and adjusting the eq. I hate the bright switch on the normal channel, but the deep switch on the bass channel acts as an interesting shelf. Another thing that I love to do with my bassman is to use a Walrus EB-10 preamp, eq, boost with presets to add some additional clarity, balance input levels if I switch guitars and adjust the mids (which the 2 band eq from fender can't help with).

[@Hillelfan02]

@@kosmicwizard I primarily use a strat with medium output pickups and a fuzz face for the Hendrix clean sound, it’s a good sound but I don’t ever mix the channels I’ll try it out

[@siegfriedwashburn3484]

Hi, Johan! I think, 59 is more "about me". Have a nice weekend! See you! Zigfrid

[@JohanSegeborn]

Have a great weekend Zigfrid!

[@glennnobiss3406]

thanks for this, enjoyable as ever! Question - what is the red box? is it an attenuator?

[@yobaby14]

I believe it was an impedance matcher. The '59 had been modded to accept 4/8/16 ohm cabs in addition to the factory 2 ohm output, but the '67 only had the factory 4 ohm output. The cab was 16 ohms, so he had to use the red box to match the impedance between the '67 and the cab. An Iron Man II attenuator also features impedance matching.

[@chriswebb2221]

Both sounded amazing....but. if I had to choose just 1 - the 59

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Chris!

[@e.tienne6600]

Great Vid’ as always, Johan, by the way, wasn’t the template for the first Marshall a bassman head rather than the tweed combo? More Marshally bite in the 67 I feel!

[@jegr3398]

The first marshall is a copy of the 59 Bassman circuit.

[@BcBaxley]

Not mad at either of them 😁

[@JohanSegeborn]

;-)

[@Impractical_Engineer]

The best way I can describe this is an analogy to Fight club where the 67 is Edward Norton and the 59 is Brad Pitt.

[@ScottyBrockway]

Both amps sounds great, but the blackface sounds absolutely killer. Definitely my preference.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Roy!

[@amritjanardhanan]

A presence control mod on the blackface bassman would help the tone a lot.

[@HomoChomsky]

I agree. Bassmans can get a little piercing, that's why the Tweed version had a presence control.

[@davidkieltyka9]

Nothing to complain about with either amp. I like the stock 12AY7 in v1 of a tweed Bassman while my own ‘60s Bassman head has an ECC81 (12AT7) in v1 for a little more headroom than stock. I like the Electro-Harmonix long plate ECC81 as it sounds great as a gain tube. ECC82s (12AU7) offer even more headroom, great for “pedal platform” use.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks David

[@vintagepipesnightmares]

I liked the 67. Then with the tube change it got confusing.

[@guitarocd9984]

The 59 tweed all the way.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks !

[@nickmurphy9876]

That’ll be 10k

[@VultCult]

The 67 seemed to have a more pronounced tone (at least that's the only word that comes to mind). More mids at least. Wonder how they'd sound through a 1982A or 1982B cab? Great playing - Ace!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks man :-) Yeah I think the 1959 marries better with a 1982 the 67 Bassman

[@Kashed]

First, I never thought a Fender Bassman could sound so metal. Second, while they both sound great, the 67 sounded superior while playing the riffs than the 59 did, however, the 59 sounded superior to the 67 while soloing. It’s almost as if they both excelled at the opposite things. I can see why producers and engineers like to have so many different amps while recording so they can choose the one that shines for a specific purpose. Excellent as always Johan! Really enjoying the new format with daily content. You are going to need a roadie if you keep this up! 👍🏻🎸

[@TheChipMcDonald]

So close that it doesn't matter, I would use either with no reservations. On 10 with the tone controls wound up the circuit differences are probably less significant. Beyer + room = 70's excellence....

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks! :-)

[@NicolasThe777]

Massive!

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks :-)

[@IAreTheRomans]

What did you say you used for the ohm conversion? That red box that's plugged in? Thanks

[@HomoChomsky]

The 67 sounds a little bigger and gnarlier, but man, there's nothing like the fuzzy punch of an old Tweed when it comes to Fender circuits.

[@doc_matter]

So heavy, its pretty clear that the speaker is the most important component

[@Chris-hq7nl]

I personally prefer the 67, even though the 59 sounds phenomenal.

[@JohanSegeborn]

Thanks Chris!

[@FabrizioCalderara76]

The '67 sounds more defined and has more bottom end, the' 59 is a little flubby but it has a lot of character! Anyway, I prefer the '67 😉

[@peterhuber659]

You know it´s damn fucking loud when the cam vibrates the whole time! My fav is the ´59er. Sounds more crispy!

[@bladerunner12]

Greenbacks have always had a reputation for making everything sound samey. Good argument for the idea that "Marshall tone" is more "Greenback tone" than anything else.