Orlando Shooting Debate: Sky News Press Preview

Guardian columnist Owen Jones and radio presenter Julia Hartley-Brewer discuss the Orlando shooting on our press preview on 12 June 2016. Watch the full exchange.
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[@TheEconomicElder]

Islam and homosexuality dont mix. To say it had nothing to do with his religion is bit much.

[@AfroCharlieable]

He's saying that the shooter used religion to justify his actions. The desire to do what he did fuelled him to seek for vindication of his actions.

[@Gravitron0]

Most religions and homosexuality don't mix.

[@TheEconomicElder]

AfroCharlieable Exactly if he did not have his religion there would be less of a chance he would have killed.

[@AfroCharlieable]

Chops Sympathy oh no he still would've killed, he just would of had a different reasoning. Anyway, I'm not trying to avoid the discussion of religion as it's being brought up as a way for American conservatives to not have to alter gun laws by blocking those ideas with bigotry and islam-phobia. The issue is with who he attacked and how and a much deeper why than just fitting him into an appropriate box

[@TheEconomicElder]

AfroCharlieable Islamic law is different to the bible. We have separated religion from law.

[@glasscorp]

He's throwing a tantrum because someone disagrees with him...hmm

[@antzooma]

She did agree that is was a homophobic attack as well. I feel that they're exploring other reasons behind the attack for the sake of discussion. Also it's not 100% clear whether the gun nut was homophobic due to religion or not. It's just mentioned that he saw two guys kissing and was repulsed by it. Of course the attack was specifically against the LGBT community but here they are just opening it up for a debate on who is to blame, whether the cause is homophobia brought on by his religion or not, and of course discussing the old lack of gun control.

[@TheBelilu]

Just wait til they get more leverage. Then we'll see who the real bigots & control freaks are! The only difference will be the heathenistic, immoral lifestyle which can easily (for now) be disguised as 'live & let live' mentality.

[@glasscorp]

Couldn't agree more.

[@LightLife4]

More like because they wouldn't listen to him and they kept on playing the homophobic part of the incident down when that's clearly what it was.

[@user-sf7kl9uh7k]

It was a silly interview, bit of a set up really

[@gearoidwalsh8606]

He actually had a point. LGBT were targetted (almost certainly). Where he's naive is thinking that this has nothing to do with Islam.

[@ballbagboris5699]

He states it has something to do with 'a weird twisted view of Islamic fundamentalism' which is correct

[@craigpearson7578]

Left meets left problems I guess. He's conflicted... He doesn't want to admit that an extreme religious nut did it because as an extreme left winger himself he'd then have to admit a group he defends hate the group he belongs to..... What a tangled Web they weave... Still.. It'll be someone else's fault so phew... No face lost

[@RaferJeffersonIII]

Craig Pearson yeah that’s the issue with identity politics. Muslims are victims so it can’t come from that. It’s from homophobia, that white male phenomenon, and somehow it’s led this poor Muslim astray.....

[@TheCheweeRevolutions]

@@ballbagboris5699 it's not weird or twisted at all. Hating homosexuals is the most plausible, rational, literal interpretation of the Qur'an

[@ballbagboris5699]

@@TheCheweeRevolutions possibly

[@leonahthelioness5479]

Why are they denying something so obvious? I would've walked off too.

[@torontolarrivee7965]

Owen was actually wrong in the end. www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

[@obiwankenobi687]

@@torontolarrivee7965 that’s fair enough months after the fact now the new evidence has come to light. But in the immediate aftermath with only the information they had at hand at the time Julia was utterly pathetic to try and suggest it wasn’t a homophobic attack. She’s a right wing looney who regularly appears on British TV to deny covid is a threat and spout nonsense.

[@torontolarrivee7965]

@@obiwankenobi687 Come on. Clearly the rational approach is to remain agnostic as to the motivations of a mass shooting until we have the available facts. I don't know anything about the looney right wing host-- I don't even really understand what point she's trying to make. But Owen is also being silly here -- he has no grounds for being absolutely certain that homophobia was the modus operandi, or for denying that religion played a role. We just need to be honest about all of this and not pretend he was making sense in his speculation while she was being pathetic. They're both talking through their hats.

[@corriblehunt4554]

They weren't denying anything. They were trying to have a fair and balanced discussion. They weren't trying to create a twitter echo chamber

[@ebojfmdboojoh4023]

@@obiwankenobi687 In my opinion Owen Jones is a left wing looney. But that's okay because he's a box ticker and fits the current agenda of mainstream media organisations.

[@scoopearth811]

"He was just a lunatic" This is bland to the point of saying nothing. Whether it's Paris or the abortion clinic shooter, just calling them 'insane' doesn't approach the real reasons why they started shooting. After all, there are loads of people with severe mental health issues who never harm anyone, trying to make this just about mental instability is disingenuous, at best.

[@somexp12]

Yep. "Lunatic" is way too broad. And calling them "homophobic" is also way too broad. It was very specific type of homophobia and, unless we can recognize where that homophobia comes from, we won't be able to address it. Guess what it is that I am referring to.

[@thisistheendpt2]

He was a lunatic.

[@HappyPrometheus]

There is a difference between a lunatic and a psycho. The latter is a criminal who knows what he is doing...

[@lubberwalker]

Nope. Lunatic is perfect. The germ of the original idea that warped reasoning and resulted in "kill a particular grouping of people" is irrelevant. Otherwise we might rank (or excuse some of) those original views by "reasonableness".

[@danielmcdermott138]

Exactly. The 20th century was littered with mass murderers. To denounce them all as 'mad' or 'evil' is juvenile.

[@NRRC97]

The thing is, Owen was absolutely right in calling out these two on their bs for trying to neflect this as an LGBTQ+ attack, however, he got too upset (understandingly so) and it was too much for him to handle it, even when the other two moved on to other topics, Owen clearly was still too upset on what happened earlier to continue the analysis and make his case in different parts of the conversation, which is a shame cause he got a point, he just couldn't handle the toxic ambient of the media

[@flangecorp9789]

Agreed, I don’t like Owen Jones but he made a pretty fair point here. The hosts seemed to be quite ignorant.

[@ausmr654]

Absolutely, imagine telling a Jewish person Auschwitz happened to people not Jews and that they can't claim ownership of the tragedy.

[@heavenphillips3867]

He felt disregarded, I wouldn't stay either.

[@cjishere4098]

@@ausmr654 TRUE

[@MrLMD1234]

It wasn't a targeted attack on the alphabet gang. He picked pulse nightclub at the last minute. His motive was for retaliation for air strikes done by USA. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Motive

[@starcade90]

Why is Owen trying to excuse that the guy was a Muslim?

[@patrickeh696]

Because he is a criminal.

[@oshinmegerdumian1679]

The corporate media doesn't talk about homophobia except a Muslim is involved with it

[@starcade90]

+Alex Kirwin The IRA never claimed to be fighting a holy war.

[@starcade90]

+Alex Kirwin "religion has nothing to do with it". Even though the killer most certainly said it did?

[@patrickeh696]

WRONG, the perp even contacted the US gov before that attack to tell them it WAS motivated by his religion. Islame. Ya know, the one founded by MoHamPig.

[@TrilobiteTerror]

8:17 "Canada actually has more guns per person than America". What a blatant lie. Canada has roughly 30.8 guns per 100 residents and the US has roughly 112.6 guns per 100 residents. This is easily looked up.

[@DrRiq]

also Canada has like 3 people

[@animebabe44]

The USA literally has more guns in circulation in 2021 than they have citizens

[@calderarecords]

@@animebabe44 The USA has more guns in circulation than there are guns on earth!!

[@bigkuriboh3814]

Actually Canada does have more guns per adult. So dies Switzerland.

[@stuartberesford3585]

Owen Jones criticises the others for using terms like “lunatic” and “maniac”, yet he’s okay to call the attacker a “knuckle-dragging thug”. Hypocrite.

[@TehDawg]

Tory by any chance mate?

[@chrisstones1249]

Right wing fascist idiot .

[@Meeeeeeee75]

He was a crazed gun man but we have to acknowledge that the lgbt community was a specific target in this case and that the lgbt community are feeling in a particular way attacked and vunerable right now. It was an attack on the LGBT community and the western world.

[@marcvandesandt7520]

Evil doesn't exists.

[@AfroCharlieable]

It does, it's just not a force of nature.

[@Gravitron0]

No. It was an attack on the LGBTQ community. To say the whole western world was attacked is to marginalize the victims and continue to not identify who these targets were.

[@EmilyRose1]

Yes which is why I completely understand Owen’s frustration. Why do they refuse to admit it was a homophobic attack? Strange

[@TheCheweeRevolutions]

@@EmilyRose1 they acknowledged several times that it was a homophobic attack. What they are debating is whether or not it was a coincidence that he just happened to be a Muslim, or whether his religious beliefs motivated the attack.

[@juls41056]

I love how she complained about being interrupted but they've both interrupted him and shut him down every time he speaks. He cant even finish a sentence.

[@bigjoemaggie5267]

He certainly can’t. He has his blinkers on. Really shouldn’t be in the public eye.

[@samuelspinler4025]

Ya, because he just say's the same thing over again wihout listening and then they agree with him and try to move on to the next point.

[@divaqueen7898]

Owen Jones had to walk off - as would have any other LGBTQIA person. The majority of homophobic attacks and discrimination are justified in the name of religion - all religions. My guess is that these are the same straight people who say that life for the LGBTQIA community is free from prejudice nowadays.

[@starzycomet1969]

Oh enough with the letters ffs....what's going to be added next!!

[@MoreEqualAnimal]

He walked off because he is weak.

[@steverowe3]

FFS every letter in the alphabet will be used soon🤦

[@divaqueen7898]

@@steverowe3 Fffs - an inclusive society, how redic!

[@samuelspinler4025]

That wasn't they were alking about at all. They agreed with Jones whole heartedly and then tried to move on to other parts of the coverage. "How dare they use normal conventions of language to espress there opinion, they should be expect to be completely ignored and then condenscended too."

[@tention4790]

This is like the same thing as saying "I don't see race" on a race issue

[@bigjoemaggie5267]

Or even people say “this is a race issue” when it clearly isn’t. Owen is 100% wrong here.

[@billyboycfc]

His silence on the reading attack is shocking

[@RichTake]

This is the same thing people do when talking about blatant racism. Instead of calling a spade a spade they use "cushion" words that aren't specific and say basically nothing like lunatic, mad person, crazy person, etc. Just all generalized terms that mean nothing to a specific situation.

[@samuelspinler4025]

Because the point is that few rascist take there veiws to such violent extremes. Just like here them pointing out his homophebia however true doesn't correlate to a shooting as an obvious result. Whoever does these attacks are insane and extremist by a large degree even compared to the minority group of there perspective.

[@paulieyoung782]

I want to see Owen Jones vs Ben Shapiro

[@ivx8345]

Dude that's like wanting to see a MMA fight between some toddler and Rico Verhoeven. I'm as interested to learn more about the MMA skills of a random toddler as I am interested to gain more insight in the unstable and shallow peabrain of this Owen character.

[@SeanKelly-kx8wb]

I would absolutely love to see that

[@craigpearson7578]

In a gang bang face off.....? Its the only time Owen would win

[@notv_internetuser3789]

Milo Yiannopoulos would be a million times better

[@vernonhedge4530]

@@notv_internetuser3789 yes, but I think Owen has already said he won't do that.

[@amjid300]

Watching Owen brooding towards the end was brilliant.

[@pauljames5079]

LOL

[@paolom.6011]

His wee temper brewing.

[@emilyvass8747]

Owen Jones had every right to be insulted. Mark and Julia's behaviour was utterly disgusting. Was it so hard for them to actually pay attention, listen and understand what Owen was trying to say? Of it was an attack directly at LGBT people, everyone can see that! Even people who don't agree with the LGBT way of life can see that! Mark and Julia should be made to apologise publically for the amount of people they have insulted, especially at a time like this.

[@derekcote7389]

Amen

[@Deantrey]

Why are some people so deliberately ignorant?

[@Caper1144]

I just watched the whole thing and really couldn't understand why he was going so nuts.

[@Deantrey]

***** That's fair. I could imagine some people do that.

[@Henry-fd3et]

I love how casually the other two just carry on when Owen Jones walks off, like it was a relief to them that he'd finally gone

[@chrisrogers8111]

Y SkyNews Bother with This Childish Jones He Not Right in the Head

[@Lapinporokoira]

Can't have them being told the truth

[@starcade90]

What a fool this Owen Jones is.

[@thomasjoad607]

Why? In 2016, in even the most liberal parts of the Western world, the LGBT community is still discriminated against by law. As Jones says in this clip, people in his own society find him to be 'repulsive'. Like other marginalised groups, the LGBT community has suffered for decades from ridicule, violence and hate. And yesterday the entire world was reminded that the LGBT community is still threatened. Even in Florida. Owen Jones is angry, and he should be.

[@straighttalking2090]

Why? Because Owen stopped listening to what the other two were saying thus responding to what he _thought_ they were saying.

[@straighttalking2090]

Mr Kush Ah the Irony! I was just asking for odds on that. The question that cannot be answered is did his Islamic upbringing instill a sense of self loathing that led to this disaster? I would put it on the cards.

[@Prodigy0fLight]

+Straight talking or it can be staged to take the peoples rights

[@robanda1665]

Saddened by the killing of the young innocent people, who where at there at the wrong time :( RIP♡

[@jessefram2432]

8:15 this woman really just said Canada has more guns per person than the USA but better gun control. I'm sorry that's just not true. I live in Canada, not only do we have about 10% of the American population, but guns are a culture over there. We do not have more guns than them lol.

[@anourtine6204]

I’m a Canadian, and yes.... we do have more guns per person. The difference is WHOSE hands those guns are in. Canada has more rules, sanctions and regulations around who can get one. Most Canadian gun owners are rural hunters and trap line folk.

[@jessefram2432]

@@anourtine6204 I understand who uses guns primarily in Canada and why. I still don't believe that there are more guns per person. With 10× the population and less regulations, I'd find it hard to believe that there are more guns in Canada than in the USA. Maybe registered guns? That's possible because they have to be registered to a licensed owner here where as things are much more open in America.

[@emmawhispers3146]

@@jessefram2432 Canada actually has less guns per person than the US (35 guns per 100 people vs. 120), but theoretically we could have more guns per person but still have less guns overall than the US because of the population difference.

[@MJ.P.SG-7]

I feel and share Owen's anger and frustration. These two are ridiculous and ignorant

[@harisadu8998]

It wasn't an anti-LGBT attack. Even left-leaning Vox has reported this: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

[@TheManorBeast]

How? They were literally repeating over and over again it was a homophobic attack I don't know wtf more he wanted. Was absolutely weird. Stop saying they're lunatics? No, ok they're totally rational then

[@Boxmajor]

1:34 can anyone else hear breathy whispering?

[@greglyons2526]

yes it was creepy

[@bwadup]

I think they were just trying to say that it was a targeted attack but these types of crime are not acceptable regardless of ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. Which is a pretty obvious point but still important to make.

[@samuelspinler4025]

Ya, it was really ugly and selfish seeing Owen brooding that there Empathy wasn't entirely focused on him. And kept brininging up things entirely unrelated to the case.

[@cjam191]

yous disgust us all. Those presenters should be fired!

[@Gravitron0]

Human rights is no agenda

[@davemiller7850]

What a drama queen.

[@bpotp]

any debate where the word homophobia is taken seriously isn't worth listening to.

[@logofreetv]

Correct! I'm amazed people give it any attention.

[@MrBumbaclyde]

im amazed your people made it passed stone slabs and chisels

[@Phelaidar]

Care to explain?

[@MiscellaneousYou]

What a spoilt brat he is 🤦‍♂️

[@tonyclifton2230]

He had enough of their nonsense. Its interesting to see how both interviewees on that panel have progressed.

[@Playboysmurf1]

Was the movie theater attack an attack directed at people who like films?

[@latricoteuse6282]

so, the charleston shooting wasn't a race crime?

[@Playboysmurf1]

So perhaps a better example of my original question is. Was the Boston bombing an attack on Endurance Sport?

[@me323]

Of course the Boston bombing was an attack on Endurance Sport! Just think back to years ago when endurance sport had to literally fight for civil rights! The many years of oppression and hatred towards endurance sport, and even though endurance sport is much more widely tolerated today, there are still those who hold the moronic regressionist idea that endurance sport is wrong and needs to be punished, or at least what constitutes as punishment in their warped reptilian minds. Of course the same also applies to films.

[@noirling1]

According to these two idiots, it was an attack against filmwatchers and cosplayers everywhere.

[@RichTake]

Anytime the presenter would present something new he wouldn't even look at the guy. His attention was solely on the woman. Seems as of the guy wasn't welcomed to begin with. They were clearly deflecting what's right in front of their face.

[@sillygoose9070]

'Two men kissing' _is_ repulsive. Everybody knows that.

[@dustinortiz3852]

Well done Owen i live in Orlando and I'm glad there are people like u

[@tomd2103]

Poor old Owen, he has nowhere to go as he can't admit that many followers of Islam hate homosexuals. Those murders were a result of that hatred, but he can't bring himself to admit that. As a result, he gets angry, tried to play the victim and twist things at every opportunity before storming off as he had nowhere to go. Similar thing when he went to the school In Birmingham where the parents were protesting. Sat in a room with a huge elephant, but again couldn't bring himself to address it.

[@tomd2103]

He's massively in denial and can't admit it, so ends up going round in circles because he can't bring himself to say it. Watch the video when he went to the school in Birmingham regarding the protests there. Same thing then, skirts around the issue.

[@davidgraham8058]

Owen Jones loves to make everything about him.

[@lola14660]

It was a hate crime.

[@jimbodjango8900]

The guy who did it was homosexual lol

[@howdydutt1e]

I think the guy in the pink got too caught in his feelings. This was not constructive at all

[@T4terrible]

he stormed out like an idiot, but he was right and the sky news presenters were so bigoted.

[@TheBloodlessOne]

Since they didn't agree with him, they're bigoted. Leftist logic at its finest.

[@conormarron4372]

What the hell were they even disagreeing on?

[@DanJames-ej9em]

People are allowed to hate homosexuality and transsexuality. Many people believe, it's nothing short of perversity.

[@LongStraightLines]

How is Owen Jones even a thing?

[@brandonjamal]

It's interesting watching them all missing eachothers points that are not in disagreement with eachother.

[@aaronwillis6035]

Owen can use the word 'fanatic' but Julia can't use 'lunatic,' 'mad' or 'bad'?

[@CertainSomebody]

Gaslighting at its finest

[@stokepogue]

Multiple shootings is bad; not agreeing on how to fix it is worse.

[@Bluemax1945]

Owen Jones is a social justice warrior cliche.

[@allanarnold3619]

This guy is a pratt

[@andybray9791]

Owen is an embarrassment

[@jfedererj]

The primary motivation of inviting these two on the show together is entertainment value, not news. Whatever your take on this, it's important to remember that.

[@smokepepsi]

Why is he so desperate to defend Islam? Does he know anything about that religion?

[@benadams6077]

Owen Jones acting like a little ****** as per usual

[@jxbail]

I used to have respect for Sky News I have none now

[@Davey1522]

Bye bye cry baby

[@A-Man79]

By storming off he made the story about him and his inability to tolerate other viewpoints. Not the best idea when 50 are dead because of intolerance... By all means say "I disagree" but continue to focus on the tragedy that didn't affect him personally - he was NOT the story, nor does he own the story.

[@Bluemax1945]

I think Owen Jones said LGBT 500 times.

[@philosopher1a]

I'm wondering whether they have ruled out a video as the motivation/cause for this spontaneous action?

[@fowadahmed6174]

sky news is Fox news of UK

[@Gondonr]

But they call Islamic State 'So Called Islamic State'. That's pretty BBC of them. Fear not. Also the likes of Shami Chakrabarti and Owen Jones would not even go on Sky News if they thought they were anything like Fox News. The UK does not have a real right wing tv MSM. Newspapers... now that's a different matter.

[@RyanMorrisonjersey]

The UK can't have a TV service like FOX news. It's part of the Broadcasting Act that all broadcast television and radio news services have to be impartial.

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

+Ryan Morrison LOL!

[@patrickeh696]

That means that none of the alphabet national networks from eh USA would be allowed. ABC, CBS, NBC, et al

[@patrickeh696]

***** No, he doesn't. Has been for well over a decade.

[@Bluemax1945]

Will Owen Jones be reviewing the papers next week ?

[@underneonloneliness2]

Owen Jones vs Andrew Tate would be a brilliant fight!

[@civicsr2cool]

can't we ban murder and terrorism??

[@fok3624]

This comment section is IGNORANT and embarrassing. It’s so obvious what the two were trying to do here, their reluctance to call it out for what it is, a homophobic attack is astonishing. I cannot believe this is even remotely a debate.

[@gillymccyber1927]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the way Jones speaks to grownups really grinds my gears.

[@markcarlin9112]

Owen Jones is a “little boy in a man’s world”!So I’m not accused of being sexist he is also a “little girl in a women’s world”! 😭

[@benjames5423]

Acts, looks, sounds, dresses and I will assume has 90% of the genitalia of a girl, so stick with the latter.

[@nikashford931]

why are people 'proud' of sticking things up their arse?

[@72GLM]

@Rhys Hoffman No, it did work, made the point quite well I thought.

[@AstraMilitarumFodder]

Assault Riffle =/= Semi-automatic Riffle, same as AR-15 =/= Sig Sauer MCX carbine... which non of these two riffles mentioned are Full Automatic Rifles, they are single shoot per trigger squeeze riffles. Not that being out of the way continue on with your discussion.

[@harryantino]

Owen ‘It’s about me’ Jones

[@Delilah_Anne]

I mean, I haven’t seen him talk about other things yet, but in this case being part of the lgbtq+ community gives him a right to talk for the community in my opinion. If that makes sense?

[@KillTheCupcakes]

Um yes bc he’s part of the community that is being talked about. DUH

[@light3551]

Oh god!! This was really disturbing.

[@sug4385]

God damn, let each other talk!

[@andrewsimpson5818]

Owens Jones was upset the two straight people on the panel were condescending and homophobic.

[@alphabetacanton]

Julia Hartley-Brewer kept saying that the mass murderer is a "lunatic." What qualifications on psychiatry does she have? Killers or mass murderers could be quite sane. They chose to kill people for their own reasons---sense of power and control; sadism; perversion; wanting to make a name for themselves; anger; religious reasons; bigotry; hatred; or whatever. Calling them "mad" is to make excuses for them. Owen was right to walk out.

[@LondonSambaDancerBellydancer]

Lunatic could be anything: it could be a cover for schizophrenia, crime of passion, psychopathic tendencies, or just plain borderline or hatred. What ignorance this lunatic woman showed indeed!...

[@alittlebirdysaid]

Agreed. Assigning every mass murderer the title of 'lunatic' is lazy and an attempt to distance onself from the many sane people who work under terrible ideologies and commit terrible crimes. It's uncomfortable to think that a reasonable person can be raised or indoctrinated into a violent mindset.

[@ByTheNameOfALLAH]

Not really. Only a lunatic does such thing and it is not to excuse them but to treat them and put guns away from them

[@alittlebirdysaid]

Zoey Z 'Sane' (by psychological definition) people have committed mass murder in the name of ideologies. Society needs to address the harmful influences of those ideologies and painting every mass murderer as a lunatic does deflect blame off cultural issues. And no amount of pointing out the US that they house 'lunatics' has ever gotten them to take somebody's gun away, tbh.

[@kylecampbell1444]

The biggest problem is that 51 other people didn't have a way to defend themselves. It was a gun free zone.

[@civicsr2cool]

armed security tho

[@kylecampbell1444]

+civicsr2cool That doesn't count. One person standing at the front door is only to keep honest people honest. If one person had a gun inside that this guy didn't know about this would of been over alot faster with less life loss. The fact remains that someone who wants to do something like this always goes to "Gun Free Zones" because they know they will meet little to no resistance. Bet he would never done this at a gun range.

[@jorgemurillo4915]

like yeah they are gonna take a gun to a club. who brings a gun to a club?

[@kylecampbell1444]

Mehron74 If the gunman knew every person in that place had a gun bet he wouldn't of gone there. The reason these places are called soft targets.

[@kylecampbell1444]

civicsr2cool A metal detector won't stop anyone like this. The place was a gunfree zone. All he does is walks up and shoots the person at the metal detector. With as much ammo he had he wasn't worried about a security guard or a metal detector.

[@robsmith7567]

What an absolute baby. Throwing his toys out of the pram because "words are violence"

[@greglyons2526]

no that wasnt it at all

[@kristian.james-clement]

Owen was ridiculously unprofessional. He should not be allowed to be on TV again with that kind of attitude.

[@deannewton5458]

Is Owen on constant repeat

[@wardkdouglas]

There's only so many buzzwords out there

[@vernonhedge4530]

@@wardkdouglas True dat

[@MVUK358]

Yes, he repeated his point for 10 minutes straight, trying to get the other guests to admit they were wrong and trying to force them to agree with him. It didn't work, so he threw his toys out of the pram and stormed off. So mature!

[@brandysilva2243]

I'm sorry but I feel that was a pretty childish way to handle that interview. I would have stayed calm and explained EXACTLY what I stood up for so all could hear

[@Incarnant]

The issue was literally one of scope and an inability to actually listen to one another. Seems to be the world in a nutshell these days, everyone is too busy with their own pre-conceived notions of how things have to be to actually stop and really listen.

[@jimdangles4269]

its annoying that they cant listen to him and understand what hes saying

[@blaster21996]

WOW! HOLD ON! The guy did not use an AR15!

[@blaster21996]

***** Mole

[@jackstarr2096]

Owen Jones dying to be the biggest victim

[@underneonloneliness2]

He’s a typical soy boy

[@B7yc3e]

I hope they apologized publicly to him after this. Absurd. Even more shocking that Sky News weren't embarrassed at all considering they uploaded this to their own channel.

[@B7yc3e]

Nevermind, I looked it up. Apparently she refused to apologize and then said he had "more in common with ISIS than he thinks"

[@albaby9520]

​@B7yc3e she's not wrong. Look at him now.

[@LondonSambaDancerBellydancer]

Such denial is mind-blowing. Those people are sick.

[@Jamesnebula]

Great flounce, Justified.

[@Eros12289]

Owen leaving that room was the best thing he could have done...

[@mchalethegreat4938]

I think it was past his bedtime anyway

[@alistairmonro]

Not entering it would have been better

[@jazy3091]

Well done Owen, I'm not LGBT person but I couldn't listen to them doing everything in their power to detract the point of this attack which was homophobia. They were simply insulting to their guest and all credits to Owen for being able to take it for so long. The presenters should be shamed of themselves.

[@socalpimp1974]

Can't handle the pressure from a conversation, typical liberal

[@Gravitron0]

No. This was the "All Lives Matter" counter-protest on the LGBTQ community. Weather the WASPY panel knew it or not they were marginalizing that man who has a voice for the people who they are marginalizing. They refused to understand, they wanted to get back to ISIS and religion and guns but refused to talk about homophobia. They would rather talk about the possible abstracts. Rubbish. And this has noting to do with Islam. When Christians murder homosexuals in the US their religion is never brought into question and I'm sure they have murdered way more than any Islamic terrorist. But Islam is anti-homosexual so it's bad.

[@peterstein1815]

amen

[@jazy3091]

Anna Bella All other reasons (like access to lethal weapon in US, a poor anger management in some young men, some interpretations of religion that support violence etc) could be discussed after they acknowledged the main point of it all which is homophobia. I agree that tragedies like this one happens for multiple reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that the main and button pushing reason was homophobia. I truly don't understand why these presenters trying so hard to water down the main issue here and pressing to talk about "an attack on people who are having fun". It's not the point. It's insulting to the minority that's under constant threat of attack simply for being themselves.

[@jazy3091]

East South yes, absolutely it still remains a homophobic act. Especially if said person is suppressing their homosexuality or believe it's a sin. Actually such suppressed homosexual desires are a very common reasons for homophobia. And so far he's been reported to have an account and being a patron to that club, which may as well mean that he was targeting people. In my humble opinion he might have had some inclinations into men. As his father said he got very angry when he saw two men kissing, that's like a big red flag that he's emotional about the subject and suppressed desire usually shows as disgust.

[@randumb1844]

...why am I watching this.

[@jonathanwrona3946]

I wish they could of just let each other talk

[@harrymartin684]

I never understood why Owen Jones is so quick to jump to the defence of a religion that would have him thrown off a building

[@pamelamilner8294]

father's statement is that the company his son worked for provided his son with the gun he used in the massacre.

[@stantheman5657]

Owen had to get home to bed so he could get up early to do his paper round.

[@frozenfan3092]

i cant even watch the end of this. thoughts are with the families all the way. people need to stop fighting and try to help each other. I understand his frustration i do and fair play to him for trying to get his point across but it was talking to a wall.

[@johnmorsley]

I’m surprised he stayed as long as he did!

[@rlittle2809]

He has a valid point. A lot of people aren't ready to hear it because it reflects badly on them.

[@rlittle2809]

@Conor O’Brien Yeah agreed. Its a shame cause he was speaking sense. I also think the other guys were really patronising and dismissive, it was an uncomfortable 'debate'

[@harisadu8998]

@@rlittle2809 It wasn't an anti-LGBT attack. Even left-leaning Vox has reported this: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

[@theashdey9383]

And to think I saw this live, fun times ha ha ha

[@dhruvildesai6911]

This was painful to watch good on him for not putting up with their bs and walking off

[@reubenbowen5096]

He was literally in the wrong ? Did u even watch the he video

[@remoobko8440]

That boy sure can roll his eyes and throw a tantrum. I dont know why the Dallas Cowboys havent signed him up yet.

[@philosopher1a]

he runs away ...awe

[@simonrussell6963]

#OwenJonesIsAwankerDay

[@Alun49]

I have watched this a number of times now and Owen Jones' annoyance is completely justified. The attack was directed at the LGBT community as well as being an attack on Western culture. That was Owen's point. The presenters seem uncomfortable at naming it as such. It seemed as if they wanted to down play the significance of it and the degree to which the LGBT community are being used as a punchbag for extremist agendas.

[@sutters7251]

Alun49 they did say numerous times that this was an attack on LGBGTQYERSBMLOPUYHN+ people. That was never the issue. The attacker chose that target as it suited his personal anti Islamic agenda. The point the presenters were making is that it does not matter what the intersectionality rating of the victims is. It’s an attack on western freedoms. Owen also got sensitive and confused about an association he made in his own mind about with Julia’s use of the word ‘Lunatics’ tarnishing the mental health sufferers of society. Everybody knows there is a difference between a fundamentalist lunatic and a schizophrenic. Everybody part from Owen that is!

[@harisadu8998]

It wasn't an anti-LGBT attack. Even left-leaning Vox has reported this: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate

[@DanielLopez-zt4ig]

This is the first time I hear that the LGBT community has voices.

[@DavidStnl83]

what does it matter ehat his motivations werem

[@theEXOinvasion]

Because it was a hate crime, wtf??