Overheard My Fiancee Saying Her Family Is Everything, Anyone Else Is "Background" r/Relationships

[@DrownedInExile]

S1: Saw this story before. Imagine if OP flipped the script, treated Rosa as "background" and stopped treating her as his #1? She would hit the roof and we all know it! I doubt Rosa took the breakup well.

[@bhart3321]

Oh absolutely if she overheard him say that she'd go ape. She needs to marry someone arab then watch as their marriage fails cuz each prioritizes their own blood family over each other.

[@LoveK1]

@@bhart3321that’s probably why she picked him. She knows she won’t have to compete against his family and if things go side ways she a home court advantage. They would 100 percent take any kids they have from him.

[@ronhall5395]

At first I assumed it was a cultural miscommunication. Then when she explained it in further detail, nope. She pretty much said he was not a priority I. Her life, even after kids, but maybe one day he could be. Lol. Like when her patents and siblings die off. Already her family does not like him because he is not an Arab. I would put the breaks on this relationship. Your just going to be her bank eventually.

[@DrownedInExile]

@@ronhall5395 I don't believe for a second this was about culture. This was just her being a crappy partner, wanting all take and no give.

[@itchynose679]

Nah... She'll be just fine. She got good support system. But she better try to find someone with compatible value to not hurt future partner.

[@Daydream_N]

Story 1: love that she says he'll only be her number after they have kids and not just when they get married. She doesn't want a marriage, she just wants to be a mom and OP is a means to an end

[@tinjmail]

great observation.

[@khuwip]

That’s why the western world have a high divorce rate…cheating and abusive relationships….Arabs Christian’s and Muslims are heavily on family relationships

[@hello93617]

Yep, and she wants to be a mom because she wants someone to love her like she loves her mom.

[@Adamskyize]

Story 1: - Expecting something to magically change once married is a highway to failure, in any culture. You should only marry someone who already is your top priority. - It's one thing to put family first for cultural or social reasons, it's an entirely different thing to feel that your SO is just background. - Even after marriage, OP will most likely notice that her family's patriarch and matriarch are still much more important than he is.

[@HobieInTheBox]

Story 1: north African reporting in here, calling your fiance and husband to be "background" is just not on. They are your family now, you're going to marry them. How can you still feel they're just in the background?? 💀 Don't get married then until they don't feel like background anymore, like honestly?

[@user-nb8tk6hh6x]

Hispanic and yeah, her culture isn’t an excuse, she is literally going to be apart if his family and Visa versa.

[@heymrnickerbocker]

As someone who is ACTUALLY MARRIED (and has been for nearly 2 decades) If boyfriends and girlfriends and fiancés are the exact same as married there is no need to get married. I also know someone who has been engaged for 10 years, has 2 kids with the person, and they STILL AREN'T MARRIED!!! It's not the same. My mom always told me "why would someone buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free" I'm not even super religious, but (except when drunk) I always had weird/guilty feelings having premarital sex... and it was the same person. The way you phrase it youre basically saying marriage means nothing. Which if that's how you feel that is fine too. Don't get married. But, if marriage means something, yes your feelings do change, and it does make the person family and it does change everything. But it's on the individual. The way I see it OP wants free milk.

[@HobieInTheBox]

​@@heymrnickerbockermarriage is literally social construct so yes, it technically has no meaning to it at all. Only the meaning you put on it. You can be in a relationship for 30yrs and not be married, and bw totally happy. But clearly OP and she had different marriage and family values

[@miminana-hd6nf]

Arranged marriage is the norm in middle eastern families. There is no "love" involved. Love develops after the marriage takes place, if it is going to. This girl has probably been brought up to believe that she does not have to "love" the person she marries, it will develop. Not defending that mindset, at all, but just saying it is probably how she was raised. Her family will never accept OP, and he will never be #1 in her mind. No relationship, no matter what culture you are from, can survive when one partner puts their "family" over their spouse.

[@pandytrashpanda5685]

​@heymrnickerbocker As someone in a long term relationship, engaged currently and owning a house with my partner, by your logic my fiancé is secondary, a user, just "my buddy" until we've signed a piece of paper. But I can assure you - he's my number one, and the man I'm currently building a life with. If he was nothing and not my family by choice already, why build a life, why get engaged or married? Why even try being a couple if the other person means nothing unless you're married, that's absurd. Religious guilt in regards to premarital intercourse is very different than wanting a life with someone which SHOULD INVOLVE the other person being your #1.

[@AndyyWithAY]

It's always a major red flag to me when someone does sex acts with the AP they won't do with the legitimate partner. And bringing them into the home. And the pictures. Just a marinara flag trifecta.

[@agentzapdos4960]

It just indicates that the spouse is the "safe" choice and the cheater can't let their wild side bleed into their safe side.

[@holeymcsockpuppet]

But but but...HE LOVES HER!!! Lol.

[@ronhall5395]

Bottomline, she did not respect him. He was her home base. Her safe haven. Never to be used for fun kinky stuff. How long did she really think k this was going g to last. She had to know he saw the pictures. Yet no apologies, she just continued her cheating. Maybe after a nights sleep she realized she had F'd up. I agree she gave as Manu details as possible to hurt him, since she was blind sided. The salary imbalance does tend to empower some woman to behave like this. They feel that you will put up with it to keep your lifestyle. Good job, OP. Move on, find a moral woman who wants you as much as you want her.

[@ZomBeeQueeen]

I think the cheating alone is the red flag…😂

[@shells500tutubo]

@@ronhall5395 "The salary imbalance does tend to empower some woman to behave like this. " And you have just explained why so many powerful and/or rich men are such sluts in their private lives.

[@MiraTheWarlock]

Engaged is waaaaay too late to play this game of 'someday you might be equal to the people I actually care about' OP's way nicer than I'd have been

[@l.b.9522]

My thoughts Exactly. I was lke wtf why are you even marrying someone you dont care about? And if she was soooo into her culture should she really have been living with him? I dont think so. She got exactly what she deserved if he went through with it.

[@DoritoBot9000]

@@l.b.9522o the gf marriage is probably a box she needs to tick off her “things to get done before thirty” list. Just as having kids. I mean, her heart is clearly not in it.

[@carlrood4457]

Sounds like he doesn't reach their level until he buys a house and they have kids

[@l.b.9522]

@@DoritoBot9000 probably has another box that says "first divorce" if it's like thatlol

[@SailorMya]

@@carlrood4457 All the things she wants BEFORE she will "love him" like she does her family are all pretty superficial and will never actually change how she feels about him... If they DID have kids they would slide into 1st or 2nd on the "list" and OP would be relegated to 3rd no matter what he does to change this hierarchy she has in her mind...

[@madambutterfly1997]

If I'm not your number one from the minute you said yes to the engagement then I will never be your number one even after we get married or have children.

[@hothotheat3000]

Story 2: it’s all fun and games until she runs the numbers and realizes that she has to start over as an unfaithful divorced woman, and her AP isn’t going to marry her or take care of her like her husband did. I love that OP didn’t cry or get emotional. Just “I know what you’re doing, you’re not slick, you’re caught, we’re done”. Ha, her shaking in her seat must’ve been delicious to see!

[@pragatisingh8467]

As someone who comes from a HEAVILY family oriented culture (there's a saying here that its always two families getting married and not two individuals', I can't FATHOM the thought of calling your long term boyfriend and fiance as background. It would've been different if she said something like 'I love my family so much but I'm really excited to start my own family with bf and step into a new phase of life' or something along those lines. But this is just complete apathy on her side.

[@DoritoBot9000]

Same! Thank you for sharing this! I can’t stand when people use “culture” as an excuse to mistreat others.

[@bethanntay]

My husband is Pakistani. A lot of them are all about family. Had he ever said that to me, he wouldn't be my husband today.

[@mellodees3663]

To be fair OP initially overheard a conversation that sparked all of this.

[@ailinfergan]

​@@mellodees3663and then when they talked later, her stance didn't change. If my fiancé said that to me, she'd be an ex. I don't tolerate being a second class citizen to her family.

[@pragatisingh8467]

@@mellodees3663 overhearing something in your own home isn't a crime? That's literally not an argument?!

[@tamsel814]

​@@pragatisingh8467no, but it can easily lead to misunderstandings since you generally overhear only parts of conversation and can mis a lot of context.

[@kelf114]

This is why Culture Clash rarely works out. It's two completely different mindsets.

[@vidhead85]

Story 2: Just have her sign your divorce papers. You have to stay for a while and gather evidence so she can't lowball or gaslight you

[@targaryenxmandi]

Story 2 has me baffled and also in disbelief. The wife didn't care for OP but started enjoying these affairs and rubbing it in OP's face like she's not doing anything wrong. I'm glad to hear OP got away from her. He deserves better but she doesn't. She broke his heart and showed zero remorse about her sleeping with women and men. She screwed herself over and got mad she got caught.

[@draconisdragonheart4248]

Story 1: Rosa is NOT marriage material for his culture. He needs to find someone else. Story 2: Please have more respect for yourself. Find a woman who is NOT a cheat.

[@ElCid48]

I think Rosa will never marry because I do not care about customs, no man especially a middle eastern man will allow her behavior. usually it is my way or the highway

[@DoritoBot9000]

The culture thing is a bs excuse. Not being able to bond to non blood related people sounds like an emotional disability.

[@One.DeSanctis.]

There was no respect toward OP in that relationship. His wife found a "fan" in OP and used him mercilessly. That entire in or out of someone's "dating league" is manipulative. I hope OP can see that he has as much "dating worth" as anyone else.

[@holeymcsockpuppet]

Cultural differences? In what culture is it a sign for a good marriage to dismiss the seriously hurt feelings of your future husband? Where does a dismissive attitude later become love? What country is that?

[@ShinyShilla]

@@holeymcsockpuppet The country is draconisdragonheart4248land, pretty famous one

[@calebhoffman6368]

This is the thing for people like OPs wife, you are starting and becoming a family unit like the one that you have and cherish so much. Once you have a life partner they are that new family unit. People need to grow up and realize that they are the parents now and need to be each others number one!

[@nativewarmask9861]

Here's the thing, she definitely made a mistake by not prioritizing this guy, but at the same time, I come from a family oriented culture, and not just the western concept of family, I mean, extended family, aunties, uncles, cousins, grandparents, and anyone who comes into our family, comes into our family, and eventually they are regarded the same as the rest of us, but until that happens, there is proving., And they understand that our family does come first, now, that being said, five years is entirely Too long a time to still be in this particular place, so it's not that they're building a new family, well, they are, but not it's hard to explain in English, if I could use the language of my people, we have a specific word for your immediate family, and then a word for your clan, and so in fact You're adding to the clan you're not separating yourself from it. But if she's trying to marry him, he should already have a place within the clan, he should be treated as an Inlaw, he should be treated as her husband, if she was conducting herself like this, amongst my people, one of the aunties are probably have words with her. I don't know if him not being of their people is a similar issue, if it is, then she shouldn't have gotten into the relationship.

[@koree1594]

Story 1: I’m glad he knew his worth and plans to leave. Ppl justifying her not even putting him with her family or above the ‘other’ people in her life and doubling down on it every time he tries to voice his concerns are WILD!!! You’re really saying that a partner of 5 years, who considers you on the same level of importance/significance as colleagues and college friends in their life; has the ability to be a good/equal partner?? If this was said to woman, the same ppl excusing it, would understand how callous and disrespectful that statement was.

[@ElCid48]

I would tell her that my family comes first as well and I see you as someone I can have sex with and see what she would do. my family is important but I knew that my husband is the most important because he is there through thick and thin and accepts me with all my negatives and positives. she seem stupid not realizing that your family moves away from you to form their own families and your parents die like we all do.

[@hilaryc3203]

I know marriages where one person is western and white, and the other is from a middle eastern family/culture and they are very happy. It's a whole different way of looking at life, but it's not bad. It's just different. Both people make adjustments and compromises, and for the western/white it is a culture shock - a big culture shock because the eastern cultures are old and have deep rooted traditions and cultural mindsets. OP just wasn't trying to understand the culture and made it all about himself. Acceptance is key and OP should have done some research into his fiance's culture to learn and understand, as it doesn't appear he made that effort. Once married, the dynamic would change and she really would focus on him. In the eastern culture a wife going to her new in-law family is very important....but...OP hasn't done the reading. He's foolish to throw away a relationship for his ego. The world doesn't rotate for us in the west, but for everyone.

[@Solkard]

⁠I would agree it was just a cultural misunderstanding I f he were still her boyfriend. But he is her fiancé, which is a promise of commitment level that is just a fancy ceremony away from marriage. If he isn’t considered “family” at that point, then I do question if she actually loves him or he was simply good enough to fulfill her cultural obligations to get married and have kids. To be fair, the whole “love of your” life kind of romantic marriage is a more of a western concept. But it still highlights the difference in what each person is looking for.

[@JcBravo8]

He proved her right when he planned on breaking up. Fiancée and five years doesn’t make you part of a family.

[@koree1594]

@@hilaryc3203 honestly I think using culture to excuse this behavior is disrespectful to the culture. Reading up on the culture will not negate the fact that after dating for 5 YEARS; he is still not a priority for her. Also, why is he the only one reading? Is his culture and background not important because he’s ‘western’? I don’t think he needs to be on the same level as her family (cultural recognition and respect) but he should at minimum be second tier and above the general ‘others’ of her social network. Also it’s never foolish to recognize that your partner does not value you the way you want/need; and choose to leave if there is no compromise/solution. She at no point indicated that he was of importance to her currently. Why should he stay? What truly is the difference between loving and valuing him today rather than after the ceremony? What indication does he have to believe that he will truly become important to her when currently, according to her, he’s expendable.

[@Guitarbarella]

Story2-she found a live in houseboy an excuse to not get attached to anyone else-horrible-

[@bhart3321]

Yup she wanted a bang maid or bang butler as it were. Poor guy needs therapy to deal with his self esteem issues & needs a men's only group to reconnect with his masculinity so he can be better & choose better in the future. Nothing wrong with being soft spoken but gotta be willing to confront those that would mistake kindness for weakness & disrespect you. They are mutually exclusive things. He's far too meek for his own good. He needs to steel himself a bit & he'll stop getting walked on.

[@AusExplorer]

@@bhart3321 I think he's too far gone.

[@bhart3321]

@@AusExplorer I don't. The last bit of the update seems like he's already starting his journey back.

[@rosihantu1]

He was her emotional support animal. The problem with Mr Nice Guy is that he thinks that being a decent and good man is enough to sustain a marriage. It might work 50 years ago but the situation on the ground is different now. If she's not in lust with you, you will never win her over regardless how deep of an emotional connection she have with you.

[@twentyfiveyears5010]

Story 1: One Rule of Life I have learned is that you don't rely on promises of what someone is "going to" do. Saying "After we're married, you are 'going to' be number 1" is like an addict saying, "After we're married, I'm 'going to' quit heroin." Or "I'm 'going to' stop hitting you." Or, "I never meant to cheat, I'm 'going to' stop." or whatever. Nah. Gotta marry what they ARE, not what thy claim they're GOING TO be. Another One Rule of Life I've learned is that morals, values, etc. don't mean much until they're tested. Classic example is I heard a woman once who was staunchly pro-life, but then her teen daughter got pregnant and she was wondering if maybe abortion would be the best option for her. Or in the Harrison Ford movie "Air Force One" where the terrorists on the plane were executing people to get the President to do what he wanted and each time he said, "I don't negotiate with terrorists." Then they found HIS wife on the plane and threatened to kill HER and suddenly he was negotiating. So it's easy for the fiance to say that OP will come first, but what will happen when that is actually tested?

[@squirrel670]

100% marriage shouldn't be a gamble. Marriage doesn't change anything and if it does then they weren't serious in the first place and looking to leave or act up til the very end

[@l.b.9522]

@@squirrel670 exactly. At the point of getting engaged you should already be acting married. You should already feel like they are family and that they are a priority.

[@DoritoBot9000]

Also, she didn’t just mentioned getting married. Her conditions were getting married, having kids and a house. Completely transactional for her.

[@MakiPcr]

I can't help but notice that he will be family *after* they have children, as if they wouldn't be a family until children are born, and I don't agree with the idea that a marriage isn't a family

[@squirrel670]

@@MakiPcr and buy a house too. Remember, renters aren't family!

[@GeorgeGiann]

Story 1: “when they show you who they are, believe them”. We’ve been hearing this so often lately, it’s time to actually embrace its meaning. There’s no win scenario in this situation. Save yourself from heartbreak and from any future legal entanglements. It’ll hurt but not as much as the other option. Make it a clean break.

[@paden1865able]

Well, backgrounds are easy to change so she can easily find a new one. Smile and move on because you shouldn't take a back seat to anyone unless they're your child.

[@ineedhoez]

Not even the kids

[@bobfg3130]

She won't be able to marry anyone.

[@AndyyWithAY]

This is a long standing pattern of behavior. She just like took the nuclear option. She doesn't want a husband. She's wants to have a ton of casual sex. She needs to go do that and leave OP alone. I definitely agree she told him the nitty gritty to hurt him.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

Just the fact that she’s lying about business trips on the weekends, when they could be spending quality time together, she’s off playing around with her AP…just tells us all that she wants fun more than being faithful to a partner she’s married to. Why can’t she explore her kinks with her husband instead of a dirty little secret? How hurtful it must be to see her doing things she refuses to do with her own husband. It truly amazes me how many cheaters never stop and think about what will happen “when” they get caught, cause they always get caught! Glad he cut her loose!

[@KJ-sp9jq]

S2: Got to love that OP's wife is willing to do everything with AP that she won't do with her husband, then has the gall to ask if they can work it out. I hope he gets a good pay day out of her and finds someone else.

[@lalvarez5151]

Story 1- NTA. She can say she loves her family. Calling the fiance background is an AH move. Who wants to marry someone that doesn't seem them as priorty?

[@heatherdickau5335]

Story 1 People think love conquers all. But cultural differences are real. Some can not be overcome. It is easy to say in the bloom of new love that you don't care but you may down the road. People need to have a long, hard look at the differences. As a woman, any coulture that treats women as second class citizens would be a hard pass for me.

[@cheskydivision]

I don’t understand cheaters that don’t want to break up or claim to still love their SO.

[@masterofpuppets5568]

I bet the STBX in story 2 only called full of apologies and reconciliation because she does not have a prenup and is going to lose a shit ton of money in the divorce.

[@bobfg3130]

Even with a prenuptial agreement she would have lost a lot. That's probably a reason. Another was that she always had him. He would try to make her happy. Not anymore.

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

Story 1. They need to have a serious conversation, or seek out premarital counseling so they can both understand what each others expectations are in the relationship. Story 2. Not all rebound relationships are bad. I have been with my rebound relationships (after ending a 6 year relationships with my ex) for nearly 30 years now! Best rebound EVER! 😊

[@owl7072]

Story 1: Imagine literally being engaged and still viewing your own fiance as "background". Honey, why are you marrying him then 💀 give the ring back until you can go from " _maybe_ you'll be as important" to "you _will_ be as important" because if you can't even make your _fiance_ a priority before your wedding then I find it hard to believe that they'll be one after said wedding.

[@evavargas5826]

I have family members I would not spit on if they were on fire, including my biological father. I love my mom, and she is important to me, but once one decides to get married, your most important thing can not be your parents/siblings. The idea that parents and siblings are above your partner is foreign to me.

[@kampar82]

Well, there are people I wouldn't take a leak on if their teeth were on fire so I get you on that part.

[@truthseeker9249]

Agreed. If I'm not above family members for my partner, I won't marry them.

[@ineedhoez]

Leave and cleave!

[@justinchristoph3725]

Story 1: I have met women who only got married because they wanted someone to pay the bills and be obligated to support the kids she wanted. Their husbands were just a paycheck to them. Just walk away

[@AndyyWithAY]

I don't know how it could be more clear. OP is a far second to her nuclear family. She wasn't talking to OP so there was no double talk or sugar coating. You're engaged now, marriage is pending. Is a switch going to flip when they get married?? I think breakup was warranted. After 5 years and an engagement, if he's still a second class citizen, when will it change? I think it's fine for your family not to like your SO, but you've got to handle them and get them together. If family is her top priority, I doubt she'll hold them accountable.

[@kuma.369]

I can understand OP. And is better knowing your partner feels that way before marriage. Marrying into someone who puts parents or siblings way before the spouse is hell. 😢

[@hilaryc3203]

I know marriages where one person is western and white, and the other is from a middle eastern family/culture and they are very happy. It's a whole different way of looking at life, but it's not bad. It's just different. Both people make adjustments and compromises, and for the western/white it is a culture shock - a big culture shock because the eastern cultures are old and have deep rooted traditions and cultural mindsets. OP just wasn't trying to understand the culture and made it all about himself. Acceptance is key and OP should have done some research into his fiance's culture to learn and understand, as it doesn't appear he made that effort. Once married, the dynamic would change and she really would focus on him. In the eastern culture a wife going to her new in-law family is very important....but...OP hasn't done the reading. He's foolish to throw away a relationship for his ego.

[@squirrel670]

​@@hilaryc3203no, they have different views on love and it's apparent see she didn't make that known before to him and it came as a shock 5 years in. It's not egotistical to want your partner to love you the way you love them. Man got called background when they were engaged after 5 years. That's heartbreaking stuff.

[@hilaryc3203]

@@squirrel670 LOL You don't get it; how many middle easter families have you spent time with? Have you ever read up on how families work in that culture? Where I live they make up a major portion of the population and so I am well acquainted with how the dynamics of their community works. I also have friends who come from middle eastern families and family members (men) who married into a middle eastern family. Of course she loves him, else she wouldn't be marrying him, but they have a different way of communicating. You continue to see relationships through your own eyes only; your norms, your ideals. I'd suggest that in the five years, he has never made an effort to learn her culture and understand. That's on him; spoon feeding him wasn't her job. They speak openly and bluntly, but they have huge hearts. Right now he's the fiance, and if they marry he will be like a son to her parents and she will know he is on par with her family. Not every cultural norm is the same, but the hearts are. He would get a lot more family support for him than he would in a lot of "white western families".

[@JcBravo8]

How many fiancée stories do we read where they dump or get dumped before the wedding? The wedding is a binding contract in the eyes of the law and God. That confirms they’re family. It’s why the saying “when you get married you put your wife and kids first. They’re your new family”. They weren’t married and he doesn’t have a family he can relate to like she does. It’s like someone from a single child household meeting someone part of a multi kid/family or even generational household. It’s an entirely different culture and outlook.

[@madambutterfly1997]

The one being cheated on should never leave the house I don't care if the house is in the cheater's name they should leave. If you cheat on me leaving with just the clothes on your back should be the only thing you get out of the divorce. Even then that's more than you deserve. You cheat on me I'm keeping everything, you at least owe me that much

[@xArtBx]

Why would you want to live in a cheater's house? I took nothing but cash. Clean start.

[@bobfg3130]

​@@xArtBx You can sell it.

[@bobfg3130]

She probably has figured out he will take her to the cleaners and get alimony from her too. And she figured out she doesn't have a back up anymore either.

[@Sunnyside55]

Damn poor guy in story 2, too bad she just didn't divorce him if she wanted to have other people in her sex life. It would have been way easier for her, but that's what you get when you want your cake and ice cream.... I hope he's able to heal and be happy. He deserves it!

[@KE-hr4sb]

S1: “My parents and siblings come first. But I promise once we are married and have kids then you will come first. But these feelings aren’t something we can force.” She’s contradicting herself: Saying she can’t force herself to love you more than her parents right now, but will be able to after you’re married? That’s…not how that works; if she doesn’t love you more than them now that you’re in a long term relationship and engaged, a wedding isn’t going to magically change that. How it’s supposed to work, is when she grows up, becomes independent, cuts the apron strings and falls in love with someone she can see herself spending the rest of her life with, then she loves that person more than her parents and siblings. That she doesn’t love *you* that way, means either she’s enmeshed with her family, or you’re not the right person. (Seriously, you’re rated *below her siblings?!* Yikes.) Either way, this would be a deal-breaker for me. Find someone that loves you every bit as much as you love them, and don’t accept second place to anyone but maybe your future kids.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

And what happens if one of them can’t have children? Where does that leave him?

[@DoritoBot9000]

She is just trying to save face and convince OP to marry her still.

[@kingston163]

He's only a sperm donor!!

[@GIChiyo]

Story 2: 100% she left for a hotel instead of him so she could keep hooking up with people Good riddance

[@Lady_Blade_WarAngel]

Story 1: I'm not gonna lie. My Mum's family are Greek Cypriot. I'm super close to my Mum and brothers. I also have a long term partner. He's fantastic, and while I'm not going to pretend that if there's an emergency, I won't be running to look after my Mum and brothers, because of course I am. But I love my partner. We both put each other first. When he's had a shitty day, I'm more than happy to let him tell me about it. If I'm sick, he'll bring me water, even hold my hair back when I puke (and he hates the idea of puke). We're planning to have a child now. If Rosa needs a piece of paper, in order to have more or equal love, for the OP, then it's just not enough. Because while I know marriage is important to people, let's be honest. If you need a piece of paper, to love someone more, then you don't truly love them. Because marriage is supposes to be a symbol of love. Like don't normal marriage vows include "forsaking all others, so long as you both shall live"? I know that generally speaks about other partners. But your partner should come first in a marriage.

[@madambutterfly1997]

That's not too big of an ask that's almost a given why would I marry somebody who doesn't give a shit about me to the same capacity as I do them.

[@dream6562]

But their family should come 1st

[@madambutterfly1997]

​@dream6562 but she claims that they'll come first even after she gets married. She sounds like a cake-eater she thinks she can have everybody as number one on her list of priorities when realistically somebody is going to have to be at the bottom of that list and currently that's her own fiance when he should be bumped up higher on that list especially considering she's going to be marrying him

[@themorn2112]

@@dream6562 ...But not at the expense of a future loved one.

[@ScandalizeMyName]

@@dream6562 Yeah, and OP should have been included in her statement. She should have said her family and OP are a priority and everyone else is background. The fact that she didn't even think to include him means that OP was right. He loved her way more than she loved him. And when push comes to shove she will ALWAYS choose 'family'. Because family to her means a biological connection. This is evident in the fact that she said she would only make him any sort of a priority in her life when they are married and have kids. People like her are incapable of unconditional love and loyalty to people they are not biologically related to. So if they do end up getting married and having kids and push comes to shove, she will pick her biological family every time, even when they are the ones in the wrong. She couldn't have made it anymore clear that he will always be the disposable one. And while family should take priority over others, once you decide you want to marry someone and agree to the engagement, that person should become just as much as a priority as everyone else in your family, because you AGREED to make him family. And after marriage and especially after children, the family you've made should ALWAYS be #1. If they are not, you're a terrible and unreliable partner and parent. So yes, family should come first. But when your BF becomes your Fiancé, he should have been considered family. The fact he wasn't, is extremely telling.

[@ActivistVictor]

@@dream6562 family is based on action, not on blood, you and others need to realize that and stop taking important people for granted unless you want them to drop you due to disrespect

[@jennilynne1977]

I hope everyone is having a great day/afternoon/night! Peace ☮️, hugs 🤗 and love 😘!

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

You too m8💜💜🤗🤗

[@paperkay]

S1: Way back when, my then fiance and I had this debate, when he mentioned something about how much his mother, his son, his sister, his nephews, his job, his friends, his sports club, his........ mean to him and I said: "Dude, I can't be NINTH on your list of priorities. If the boat is sinking and you can only save one, certainly, save the son, but I can't be NINTH. You've got to sort that shit out in your head. OF COURSE your family matters, they are great people, but I can't compete with that. I can't be ninth."

[@lrock48]

My parents has always taught me that once i got married, my own family comes first, and they'll be secondary.

[@TheSuperTroutMan]

Story 1: I am BLOWN AWAY by the amount of people carrying water for Rosa. She literally called him Background. BACKGROUND! That's not "a different kind of love" or merely "less than her #1 priority," OP isn't even on the board! Even if we accept that he isn't her #1 priority, he should at least be A priority, no?

[@alicewilloughby4318]

0:35 - Okay, I've only heard the title, but it seems like the Best Friend has a right to be just as upset as OP!

[@franciebelcher4594]

S1. NTA. She is living with OP and still doesn't see him as a priority? Not good. I'd have her move out

[@MinisterManDan]

OP in story 1 made the tough but real call. It's never easy being married to someone when your partner's family do not approve. The only way it ever works is if your partner is ride or die with you 100%. If your shitty in-laws know that no disrespect of you will be tolerated, they usually figure it out and learn to cope, or they get cut off. But if your spouse is going to bend over backwards for them, it'll never work. Like OP said, if "we're all equally loved" then it's 1 against 10.

[@ajb7530]

1st story, there is no reason for OP to marry his fiance since her parents and siblings will always come first before OP. I would call the wedding off and get the ring back. When you're married, your spouse and children come first above parents, siblings and friends, etc.

[@mikehawk9810]

She was calling her bff background too. Straight to her face.

[@AndyyWithAY]

After the day I was having yesterday I needed a pick me up. I made a butter seared steak in the cast iron skillet and broccoli. If you've never had a steak in a cast iron skillet, you're missing out. It's life changing.

[@mikeremski2102]

Steak, sea salt and pepper, let come to room temp (on counter for 20 mins, keep out of Dog Reach) Cold skillet, insert steak. Crank heat up, flip every minute or two. Don't cook past medium. Give nice crust and you can easily control the internal doneness. Instead of butter, try drizzle a really good Olive Oil. While steak is resting, quick stir fry/steam of broccoli or asparagus or green beans in the skillet.

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

💜💜🤗🤗💜💜🤗🤗

[@jeanproctor3663]

I think the only thing I can say about the second story is that the wife didn't love OP or even really care about him any more or at the very least was unhappy in their marriage but couldn't bring herself to tell him. It was probably a massive relief to her that he did find out because it meant she didn't have to creep around with her "work stuff" any more, but what a horrible way for him to have found out what was going on. I do hope he'll be OK and I hope he's able to update Reddit at some point. I reckon I'm not the only person that would love an update and am also crossing their fingers for him that he can ditch the bitch quickly and relatively easily.

[@madambutterfly1997]

I don't want to know details about the affair. The minute you cheating I find out you're worth nothing to me. you are replaceable.

[@TimTheEnchanter0]

Love how people are protecting their egos onto what is a culture difference.

[@Cazlouisa123]

OP in 2nd story will meet someone who'll appreciate him one day. What a horrible woman. 😢

[@AusExplorer]

Only if they're looking for a weak submissive. However, the traits that 99% of women list as attractive boil down to wanting a confident, competent, dominant man who is capable of leadership in a relationship. Not someone who can barely bring themselves to utter a few words after seeing, in graphic detail, that they are being cheated on.

[@Cazlouisa123]

@@AusExplorer I think there has to be a bit of a balance, speaking from my own preference. He definately needs to be more confident in himself. That's something he can build. However the idea of a man like what you described just puts me on high alert. But I know that's a trigger from my own personal experience. In the end it comes down to individual personality's, as not all women want the same thing, just like not all men want the same thing. I wouldn't say he's weak and submissive though. People react differently in situations. Some people are more calmer than others. Just the way the brain's wired.

[@momo382844]

Sweet! I’ve waiting for an update to this one! 😊

[@ericaallisonc]

First story. OP needs to break up. Clash of two cultures that will not work, it's so important to research the culture you are trying to marry into.

[@DrownedInExile]

I don't believe for a second this is about culture. She's just a crappy partner. If OP flipped the script and treated her as background, showed indifference to her feelings? I think we all know she would hit the roof! I doubt she took the breakup well.

[@lavenderlock7568]

I think it is about culture or deep personal beliefs because of how you were raised. Before I got married, my parents and sibs were my no.1. Of course, I didn't tell my then-fiance that. He's a white American and wouldn't understand and it would only hurt his feelings. Now that we're married with kids, they are my no.1. There's nothing in this world I wouldn't do for them. That said, my parents and brothers and sisters are also still my no 1. It's hard to explain. Maybe not many people in the West would understand it. I think it's a mistake for him to break up with her because if she's anything like me, she'd be loyal to him and only him and try to make him happy every day for as long as they live. I treat my husband like a king and he knows it.

[@myrabeth77]

​@@lavenderlock7568 That part where you included him as priority after kids were in the mix, as did OP's fiance, is the sticking point, I think. The implication is that offspring are required for the new family to matter. Is that what you and Rosa actually mean? Probably not. But that's the message that's coming across. If there were fertility issues, would the partner never move into top ranking? How many kids does it require to be prioritized for folks of this mindset? How big of a house? Is the husband nothing more than a potential sperm donor and housing provider/ ATM who can become a priority to you only after he's done those jobs to your REAL family's satisfaction? I don't honestly think you or Rosa are that cold and calculating, to be clear. But that's how it sounds to outsiders. Personally, I think agreeing to embark on marriage shouldn't even happen unless you are already seeing the potential spouse as your number one, your life partner. Otherwise, you aren't marrying for love, but for the purpose of checking items off your To Do list. But maybe that's just me.

[@lavenderlock7568]

@@myrabeth77 My husband became my no 1 as soon as we tied the knot. Children have nothing to do with it. Actually, we both agreed not to have kids the first two years of our marriage so that we could enjoy our time together and grow strong as a couple. Of course, I saw the potential of him being my no 1 before I agreed to tie myself to him (hopefully) for the rest of my life. I loved him then, but my loyalty was to my family first since we weren't married yet. I have my own money and my family is well off, so he's not my ATM!

[@Nathan_Bookwurm]

​@@lavenderlock7568I also think it's how the fiancee was raised. I recognise a lot of what you say in my Middle Eastern neighbours. It's a different way to view an engagement. I didn't even know my neighbours kids had girlfriends until the day they married. And then barely saw them after marriage anymore cuz they were focusing on their new family with partner. I don't think it's impossible to mix cultures, but in this case I think OP and fiancée better find different life partners.

[@Frazzled_Chameleon]

Sometimes, the fates conspire to allow us to see people for who they really are before we commit to a lifelong relationship with them. I'm glad OP realized he'd never be Rosa's top priority. I hope he broke it off and went looking for someone who looks at him like he hangs the stars in the sky.

[@Juggtacula]

This is a huge red flag. And because it's Reddit, I can pretty much guarantee that if OP was a woman and her male fiance said "everyone else is background except my parents and my siblings", he'd be getting shredded to death in the comments.

[@AryonaSamoto]

Story 1: OP will always feel like the outsider and only he could decide if he's okay with that. I'm hope he managed to leave and wasn't manipulated to stay. Story 2: What an awful woman. I really hope OP is blessed with an amazing future and that his future Ex-wife learns the value of what she threw away and becomes a better person.

[@princesssunshine874]

I'm Middle Eastern and don't feel this way. Yes, I am very close to my immediate family but my friends and SO mean a lot to me. My friend honestly is close to the point where she is family.. I will say SO will take a greater role with mile stones, engagement, marriage, ect.

[@MsTemptation]

S2:When op described how he met his wife and all of her attributes I can honestly say that I wasn’t surprised because he was basically an average guy. Of course he didn’t question it from the start because he really wanted to believe that he’d hit the relationship jackpot. Anyway I glad that he chose to not be a doormat and get on with his life.

[@SirBitingBen]

Yeah but honetly, what the point of getting married if you're not just gonna #2, you're like #4.

[@meiwa2020]

Or apparently #11 lol OP did the right thing to call it off

[@dream6562]

That's the point of marriage they aren't married yet, they haven't had any kids yet, as much as I love my gf I am gonna put my family 1st

[@heymrnickerbocker]

not what she said. she said when they get married they are all number 1, because then he will also be family. You don't do wife things when you're just a girlfriend or fiancé. I know someone who put her fiance as number 1... Now she has 2 kids by her fiancé of the last 15 years (oldest kid is 8 youngest less than a year) and still isn't married. There is always a reason not to do it. But why buy the cow when youre getting all the milk for free. She was completely embarrassed every time she went to her OBGYN alone... turning all the way around to get her ring so she wouldn't be looked at funny. It makes a difference. You can mess around and be a fiancé forever if you let that person be number 1.

[@dream6562]

@heymrnickerbocker kinda the point of why she wasn't wrong, you said it better though

[@heymrnickerbocker]

@@dream6562 she wasn't wrong at all. He is doing her a favor listening to Redditt. She needs to run, he is listening in on her conversations, and making a big deal out of what would be nothing if he actually plans on marrying her. He is looking for an excuse NOT to get married, which is fine. It's best she knows it now, and good she didn't put him first. That's how women end up isolated from their family and friends with nowhere to turn when they figure out their man is a controlling AH

[@vip_meeks]

Mornin Mark, mornin everyone. Cheers to another good video🎉

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

💜💜🤗🤗

[@michelletess1670]

He just said it, difference in how they view life . I think how his fiancé is is beautiful

[@telinhajp]

Good afternoon, Mark and Poppy! Wishing you both a wonderful day! ❤️🤗

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

You too telinhajp 💜💜🤗🤗

[@slytherinlibrarian3501]

I said as much on the LG video and I'll say it again: leave and cleave is a part of most cultural wedding vows and it kept a lot of women in bad marriages for centuries as the woman was no longer a part of her family of origin and thus they wouldn't help her leave. If it takes a constantly shifting goalpost (building a life together, well, a home together, well, married with a home together, _well_ married, home and kids together) to cleave to your spouse, you shouldn't be marrying. Don't propose if someone else is your priority, don't accept a proposal if someone else is your priority.

[@kxs7267]

OP in first story probably made the right decision. But just to add a ray of optimism: it is possible for people to get over xenophobia or other prejudice. My Asian grandmother hated that her highly educated son was marrying a working class white woman. But it wasn't long before my grandmother had got over her dislike and was holding up her daughter-in-law as an example her daughter should emulate. So, it can happen... Not sure how we can judge how common the happy ending is, because of course contented people don't usually post for advice on reddit...

[@jjm152]

Story 2: Hate to say it, but people who tend to earn at really high paying jobs also tend to be extremely lacking in empathy and people who lack in empathy are prone to follow their whims or insecurities over acknowledging the harm they do to other people. This is exactly why some people cheat on their partners and then absolutely do not want to break up. They might actually love their partner and not want to be without them, but they lack empathy for them, or to a degree where their insecurities or desire for novelty outweighs the empathy they do have. It's exactly why so many people in so many different ways "hurt the ones they love" (not just with cheating). Another thing that people are probably not going to like is that in OP's situation, their a-typical gender roles and personalities probably greatly influenced his wife's desire to cheat because if people are not living up to an ideal that we have put before ourselves (even if we ourselves are not living up to our ideals) we tend to dehumanize them and care less about them as people. To put it more succinctly - if OP was more secure and more assertive, not only would he not have ignored potential red flags, but it's likely his wife would have paused before getting entangled in any affair because his presence would have been stronger. Finally, this story really demonstrates again, for like the umpteenth millionth time, how unethical polyamorous people are despite all their lip service and "no true Scotsman" defenses. They knew this woman was married and instigated the affair through a friend. It's quite gross that people like Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy have done so much damage to society by promoting a neigh impossible "life style" to masses, it's akin to giving toddlers firearms. I doubt they will ever take any responsibility for the damage they've done to so many peoples lives.

[@GBunnyG]

There's something so sad about story 1.

[@disneydork100]

I feel like OP2 should see a therapist for his self esteem issues and to help process his wife’s affair The wife should probably see a therapist too, for different reasons. (If at least to help her accept that she ruined her relationship and how to let go)

[@Nathan_Bookwurm]

Yea, from the start of the post he already talks about the wife being out if his league and she's so much more successful than him. There's no leagues in the world. OP2 needs therapy before going into another relationship.

[@disneydork100]

@@Nathan_Bookwurm he could probably use it before the divorce to hopefully keep the ex wife from walking all over him

[@Indi_Waffle_Girl]

"It takes five minutes to get married and year to get divorced, it seems." Oh my god, so true!!! My divorce was the easiest thing ever, it would seem. Amicable split (married young and as we got older we realized we had different goals that we hadn't realized before), essentially NO assets, no kids, etc. But it literally took a little over two years!!! AND, it was $50 for our marriage license where I live, and $300 for the divorce proceedings. Good grief, six times as much money to get divorced than to get married. To be fair, we had a lot of issues trying to get the online stuff to work. Ended up having to do it several times. We finally met up at the courthouse in person, and it was much easier in-house. ONLY if it's safe to do so, I highly recommend going to the courthouse because it is so much easier lol.

[@theresidentteacher2438]

Excuses to ACT a certain way WITHOUT Accountability.

[@SirFailsalot91]

1) A fiancé(e) is someone in-line to become part of your family and should be treated just as importantly as your immediate family in order for them to feel welcomed, holding to the mentality of "My family comes first, everyone else is just background" and "Once we're married and have kids, then you'll be equal (to my family)" only proves that you don't actually care about that person as much as your bloodline up until you've both said the vows, been pronounced spouses, had the honeymoon and popped out a baby or two - there's a looooooong time between engagement and childbirth, and that's a long time to be unequal in your partner's priorities compared to their parents and siblings, especially if they make it clear you're the outcast at all times, regardless of if you're marrying into their circle. Also something not referred back to by the shown comments, but OP went to bed upset after being told this and Rosa, the woman he loved so much that he wanted to make her his wife, didn't even try to apologise for how she worded what she said or even make him feel better, no reassurance, no consoling, nothing; she shows no empathy to her future husband she just hurt and this is the woman we're supposed to understand and think her behaviour is acceptable? Hell no, GTHO man, BS like that should never be tolerated when your partner hurts you - if your spouse-to-be has such little respect or compassion for you purely because you're not in her bloodline to not even try and make things right when they've wronged you, then they don't deserve you at all. 2) Oh boy, someone getting cuckolded is so sad to hear in stories like this: if this is how OP's "future wife" behaves while they're together, she can do this stuff without him because she clearly doesn't want a relationship if she's having extramarital affairs like this just because he's "too vanilla" for her kinks; nobody deserves to suffer such humiliation, people are worth much more than being treated like this and it's soul-crushing seeing someone being given so little respect by someone they expected loved them and thought wanted to spend their life with - unless you put your foot down and make it known that cheating won't be tolerated, then you'll be walked all over like a doormat and it'll keep happening, so good on OP for growing that backbone and standing up for himself, better to get out of there than live as a husband knowing your wife is getting pleasure from someone that isn't you.

[@lounirs]

If I heard my boyfriend say what Rosa said, I wouldn't assume he meant I'm background, so I think that if op felt bad, he must have known something was up

[@bobfg3130]

That's you.

[@sneakysnake4363]

Holy s@1%!! I feel really sad for OP in the first story. Hearing the woman he loves say that he isn’t very important to her until AFTER they get married and have babies together?? Like he has to be fertile in order for her to consider him not “background”.😢 💔 I nearly cried for him. Did she ever tell him she loves him? If not poor guy had his head in the clouds. Only good part is he found out before the wedding. Never propose to someone who hasn’t told you they love you and had that special sweet and caring look in their eyes. Second story: poor guy is too nice. He needs to learn to put his foot down.

[@lorrainemontagnon1537]

Just waiting to get fasting blood work done. Can't wait to get my coffee. Morning Mark@

[@kingston163]

Story 1 - She is telling him she only needs him to have children and be a single mother then he's no longer wanted!!

[@charliescott859]

American here, most don't put our family first. Most families are messed up and dysfunctional.

[@dimariahgunnemann3729]

3:40 that is true for every culture not only middle eastern. What the heck are you trying to explain to us?

[@utubes-cks]

Story 1... this is a major problem. After 5 years and a proposal, if you're not #1, you never will be. A problem before marriage is worse after marriage.

[@AusExplorer]

S2 not surprised someone would cheat on him. He's so incredibly weak and insipid.

[@bobfg3130]

So are you. 😂 She really quoted hum back.

[@Josku2411]

Oop early got outta work and my feet are killing me cuz i had a evening shift yesterday then i pretty much just had sleep as a break and then it was back on my feet again

[@columkenn]

Should certainly cancel the wedding after her reaction to you overhearing those remarks

[@dm9078]

She told Opie where he stands. I don’t understand why he doesn’t get this. Time to fall off the engagement and move on with his life. Story2 pathetic doesn’t begin to describe this guy.

[@juanestebanmauro5280]

Story 1: It's clear that that girl is a runner. 5 years and an engagement's worth of bonding time and affection built up and she'll only begin to CARE for you when she wears a pretty dress in a ceremony and throws a fancy bouquet of flowers? Who genuinely believes that??? She is keeping herself closed off from OP because she is either heavily influenced by others (like family and friends), is looking for a better partner and is very confident OP is gonna be her safety net, or both at the same time. OP loves her more that she loves OP, and she not only knows it, she's taking advantage of it. Not even dateable, let alone marriable. Good on OP for dumping her.

[@DoritoBot9000]

It indeed seems like she sees the relationship as purely transactional. She using the culture card to try to convince OP not to leave her.

[@kai.09]

S1: This is not about culture. I too come from a a very conservative/traditional/family-oriented background. But we have this understanding that once you get married, your family always comes first. Your partner should always be number one and your children second. Others are just background. OP just really doesn't matter to his fiance.

[@The.S.M.Evans.91]

I agree with OP with his concern. A big misconception that people have is that their marriage doesn't take priority once married. Sounds like an issue with cultural differences, but also, OP should be prepared to be pushed to the side while being expected to make her a priority.

[@Anomolus100]

Story 2: In the name of gender equality, take half of what she’s built.

[@ineedhoez]

Story 1: family oriented = codependent enmeshment.

[@kieferpeters6131]

When people tell you who they really are, believe them. She told you how she feels. make a change for the better or stay and feel like the bottom of totem pole.

[@jonmobile5521]

Story 1.. she would be history

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

Hey you yes you, take a deep breath let it out slowly, and lower your shoulders. Know that you are important to someone even if you feel like no one loves you, guess what I do. I'm so proud of you being here. Thank you. Now make sure you take care of yourself and drink some water, eat something and take a stretch break.💜💜🤗🤗💜💜🤗🤗

[@telinhajp]

Hiiiiiii, Broken! ❤️🤗

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

@@telinhajp heyo I hope that you have a great day 💜💜🤗🤗

[@TheMimiSard]

Story 1 - Unfortunately, some cultures don't mix really well. I am not saying anything against inter-cultural relatonships, but that is one of the things a couple have to work out on a couple-to-couple basis. It may not even be the ethnic culture, it may be the family culture, but it is not a positive thing when the extended family seem to dislike her having a partner outside their culture.

[@Tottosmile]

I've been with my boyfriend for 4,5 years. He's my family, his family is also my family.

[@DCD762]

Story 1: My birth family are a 0 in support system. Reason why I'm NC with them for years. My family are my wife and daughter. And my wife even before we married was my priority. She proved to be more than my blood family ever was. My country is also very family oriented, however, it's also a nation that evolved to say that if your blood family doesn't have your back as you grow, then they aren't a family

[@Davtwan]

Cultures evolve along societal progress. The family sounds close-minded especially the ones who don’t accept OP due to him not being Arab.

[@DoritoBot9000]

So much this!! So tired of the “culture” excuse. I’m certain other people from their same culture have married foreigners and don’t mistreat them like that. A bigot is a bigot.

[@ALu-nq8rf]

Bro got called an NPC by his woman 😭😭😭

[@bobfg3130]

She wanted him back fast. 😂 He cleaned her up and got a nice alimony in the divorce.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

She doesn't love you, she just wants kids. OR she has never let herself be happy and prioritizes her family.

[@claytonpeterson468]

Had a friend who married a nice girl he met at college, he is native American she is Southern Pacific. He clashed with her culture when she said she was giving her first born girl to her mom to raise, part of her island culture, his native tribe would never give away a child, both were family oriented. It took a few years but they finally split. Both nice people but with clashing cultures.

[@carolrondou6161]

OP if the person I planned to marry said something like that to me, they would be my Ex. If you marry into that family, she will never have your back. If you REALLY want to marry into this family, go to couples counseling and get counseling for yourself. She isnt promising she would put you first, you will never be part of her family. I'm glad OP had enough of self respect to get out. OP have all conversations go through the lawyers

[@develyntwocentshenderson5739]

I love people who telegraph EXACTLY what they are and the SO's still go ahead and marry them. and then wonder why the relationship blows up in their face. OP needs to RUN. you going to go by what this little girls says??? is she someone of her word? who knows

[@drunkbillygoat]

I hope there's a update on story 1

[@jackiewepps4694]

Story 1: I really liked the comment by the middle-eastern guy. It summed up my thoughts on the problem perfectly. It is a cultural difference, and such differences will become more and more apparant, the more we interact with people all over the world. It's a shame it didn't work out in this case.

[@stevebanner5609]

Story 1: UPDATE PLEASE!!!

[@bobfg3130]

They probably split and she didn't like it. He can get a younger woman. She might consider these years wasted.