Overwatch 2 Tiktoks That Catch You Off Guard

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#Flats #overwatch2 #overwatch

[@zaku7]

“Give Sigma his one Shot back” Also “Tanks shouldn’t be able to freely 1v1 DPS” Sir do you even hear yourself??

[@sparquisdesade]

It's cause he has the mind the size of an avocado

[@zestybesty11]

i know what he means and it’s valid. in overwatch 1, tanks were killable by dps if you were good enough which it should be. the matchup was like 70% tank would win and 30% dps. in overwatch two it’s literally impossible to kill a tank as a dps by yourself making it super unfun

[@purplewine7362]

oneshot doesn't mean there's no counter, Einstein. Rein also has a one-shot. Only one shot without a counter is widow.

[@meane590]

@@purplewine7362yes because charge is the same thing as throwing a boulder the size of a state. Its not like charge doesnt have hitbox issues for direct pin or that u cant have a shield up like sigma

[@purplewine7362]

@@meane590 it's still a very slow windup. if you have a brain and are not stuck in an animation like piledriving, you have a very high chance of avoiding it

[@sadi_yamzz09]

"Oh god, what did i do this time?" I'M DEAD😂

[@DatMageDoe]

I mean, that guy kinda openly admitted he had no idea what the role was supposed to do when he said DPS should be able to win 1v1s against Tanks.

[@SpiritedFalcon]

That's literally how the role used to be in OW1, lol.

[@Jbindacut]

They have to win 1v1s against dps because of the format, by adding another tank you can make them squishier. Making 1v1s against tank more possible. Like the guy above me said. Look at tanks in ow1

[@Cthulhu357]

I mean many games have damage characters able to 1v1 a tank player if played properly.. but yes the tank will usually have a big advantage.. but the only reason a tanks beat dps in a 1v1 consistently is cause tanks can do the same if not more dmg while staying alive long enough to either have teammates peel for them or just have enough sustain to out resource even if you played optimally and the tank didnt.

[@kalebcampos1064]

@@Cthulhu357 those games didnt go through a format change that compressed 2 tanks into one. The moment that happened you ended up with more of a 1.5 (tank) v 1 (Damage) matchup. Under the current format a tank should NEVER die 1v1. The only way they'd viably be able tank if that were the case would then require the healing to be absolutely ungodly or else the big fat designated bullet sponge would explode at every team fight.

[@reecenorwood8377]

He’s just baiting everyone anyway

[@molina616]

As a woman, joining comms is the best way to play a team based game. But half the time there’s so much hostility that it makes comms unusable. So I prefer a team based game that allows for individual skills.

[@tonyboy_c3120]

Damn, that’s sad

[@sirmudkipactually]

Don't worry that happens to men as well

[@wyvernhart9180]

@@sirmudkipactuallyTrue, but not nearly as much. Not even close

[@deathgazereaper2130]

@@wyvernhart9180ew

[@biggyblunts5788]

Woman moment

[@VollderFred]

I prefer Overwatch to be a team orientated game. If I wanted to play a shooter that just rewards individual skill, I would play call of duty or something...

[@ChickenPhobia]

Rewards skill and cod in the same sentence, that's a wild one

[@alexboi9454]

Well it's not like team play is completely thrown out the window it's just less important. If you're team has better coordination you're still more likely to win

[@sergiohenrique3551]

Matchs being determined by teammates is the worst feeling possible, i like the middle ground where we got in ow2, being way more possible to carry a game, but still rewarding good coordination.

[@konrah1486]

Lol Overwatch is a team oriented game

[@tobi2960]

Based

[@MrBeez09]

Tank is absolutely not the longest queue time. You can consistently queue for tank is under a minute while dps consistently takes 5+ minutes

[@kinisiko]

Support also takes long to queue. It's normal nowadays to wait 3-5 minutes for a support queue in quick play

[@Carlos-kv7wi]

Same experience here, whenever I queue tank it finds a match instantly.

[@failedorgan8747]

it depends on your rank/mmr

[@nikolachiara9285]

if your rank is low that would be why...

[@kinisiko]

@@failedorgan8747 is there MMR in quick play? I thought hidden mnr is just a joke

[@jesterhyzukus3828]

5v5= TDM 6v6= SYNERGY

[@Fwoppy808]

5v5 = 1v1 with 8 spectators

[@iamtoaster1288]

I have been counting what roles I have been getting for flex. In 137 games I got 84 tank, 43 support, and 10 dps. I haven't played in 2 weeks and diamond in all roles. This is only ranked.

[@TheBandoBandito]

Never get tired of these, and I don't even use TikTok.

[@nlvghost4207]

Same😂

[@depthcharge5091]

This unnecessarily funny

[@Randomness662]

0:14 Tanks have the most health? Omg, the revelation! So glad tiktok taught me this 🙏

[@sh1ndah]

he's just making a point bro

[@Doominator2019]

Honestly, when I think of traditional tanking (not necessarily hero shooters) I imagine them as low-mid dps, high mitigation/cc and high hp/def. But that really only works if the dps/supports don't have those tools.

[@TinyLokiGaming]

How does a tank threaten anyone that gets into the space they hold/take if they don't have the damage to back up the threat?

[@Doominator2019]

@@TinyLokiGaming dps =/= damage

[@RaijinRain]

All I gotta say, Wrecking Ball is damn near immortal unless the whole team is looking at him. ...Or maybe a Sombra and Bastion.

[@Randomness662]

Idk man anywhere plat and above Ball is pretty damn killable esp with all the other tanks getting actual damage buffs and Ball still shooting cotton balls

[@RaijinRain]

@@Randomness662 I do notice that with Wrecking Ball He has hella health but almost no attack power when it comes to fighting literally any other tank or even a squishy to some point. Idk maybe it's me because when I see Wrecking Ball, I'm usually a support and not a tank or DPS...Ironic

[@HugeHaddock]

​@Randomness662 Yeah. They really need to fix his weapon spread, or maybe making his grapple cool down a bit faster, so if he's hacked he isn't just instantly stuck. Or the more damage you do with his slam, the faster his shield cooldown recharges. Because right now. You're punished by playing Ball's kit. Pretty much no reason to pick him past Gold

[@Gegadigo]

But in masters or gm, balls are immortal again if they are really good​@@Randomness662

[@Swyfty_]

@@HugeHaddock Nah, regardless of rank, if you're a good ball player and the enemy team doesn't have multiple counters constantly going after you, you can get some insane value.

[@psyjinx]

Marvel Rivals made me realize how nice it is to be in 3rd person to just have better vision of what's going on at all times. I never thought I'd want to move away from first person.

[@luiegiii]

I feel like characters like Genji, Brig, Zarya, zenyatta, Rein and winston would benefit greatly from 3rd person. Having a wider view of everything could be better for kids and older people who struggle to see what is happening. The game is oppressive with all the colors and explosions 😵‍💫

[@keiranbligh8284]

Not opposed to being given the option like pubg or even being able to swap mid game

[@GameGuinAzul]

Maybe you should main ball, the 3rd person hero

[@psyjinx]

@@GameGuinAzul I was an off-tank main in OW1. I don't hate the direction OW went, but it's not a game made for me anymore. I still like listening to videos on the state of the game though, because I'd love to love it again.

[@eawhite782]

I had the opposite experience and playing Rivals and going back to OW made me wish that Rivals was in first-person.

[@DarukaEon]

At 9:40, it's hard to say personally for me, because I've seen the drastic extremes of both ends. I wanna say 1.5. I'd say 1 because sometimes I have teammates with brains the size of a walnut and would like to be the person who flips the script and find the winning strat to nab us the win. I'd be against 1 because I've been on the end where it felt like I wasn't pulling my own weight and I don't duel very well. However, I'd also say 2 because I love it whenever a team has perfect synergy, know when to combo ults, know how to peel for teammates whenever they make a mistake, hitting flanks at the perfect times, etc. But, I would also be against 2 if it meant that EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE has to hivemind and move in the same direction, use moves at specific times, use specific characters, etc. otherwise it meant you'd lose if you didn't stick to the plan 100% of the time. There needs to be a healthy balance of both. But if we're talking in terms of 5v5 vs 6v6, I absolutely do miss having a co-tank to bounce off of. That's probably the one thing I miss from 6v6. It's part of the reason why I picked up Zarya back in OW1. It's like that tag-team partner from WWE that highfives the other person and wombo combos the shit out of the enemy. OW2 removed a lot of the things that made OW1 a pain to play (mainly copious amounts of shields and CC), so it'd be interesting to see how 6v6 would feel like in the current state of the game. Well, of course with tank adjustments to accommodate 2 tanks without it being too broken. The problem I see happening if 6v6 does go through in some shape or form is that some of the tanks might get horribly undertuned that they just melt at the beginning of every engagement.

[@cremenbutter3831]

If a tank cannot consistenly win a 1v1 against a dps at that point are they really a tank or a dps with extra hp

[@zestybesty11]

i think his problem was that in overwatch 2 it’s impossible to 1v1 a tank as dps. but in overwatch 1 there was at least a chance to kill and outplay the tank if you were good enough

[@cremenbutter3831]

@@zestybesty11 i mean sure but if thats what he meant I personally don't think he communicated that well because from the way he said it i thought of it more as if in a situation where there is a 1v1 between a tank and a dps assuming equal skill that the dps can win at least a fair amount of the time

[@Jbindacut]

In 6v6 you could 1v1 a tank with pretty much any hero, apart from mercy. Ow2 you just have to die/disengage/regroup. You pretty much have 0% chance of turning some fights because they happen to be on tank and you aren’t.

[@cremenbutter3831]

@@Jbindacut then at that point to me at least they aren't a tank because they aren't threatening enough for people to redirect their aggro to said faux tank

[@draculemihawk6120]

​@@zestybesty11even that philosophy is flawed. You obviously lose to a hog if you jump around in his LOS and just make yourself a target, but if your playing something like bastion at range, reaper using abilities correctly, tracer doing the same, hanzo at distance, widow at distance, I think you get the picture. A tank can easily lose if they don't control the positions.

[@footur3179]

I'd like to think I'm decent in mechanic but the whole reason I enjoyed overwatch more than the games I came from (CSGO, VALORANT) was because it was more team based and took more mental thought into your plays. When starting the game just because I played those games my first mains were Baptiste and Sombra but the more and more I played with friends we needed a tank player on the team. That's how I fell in love with Reinhardt and Winston and Wrecking Ball. The tanks today don't have the same feeling as Overwatch 1 (P.S I stated playing 1 year before OW2 came out so I don't think I experienced a single balance patch)

[@Casiian_]

In terms of OW1 and OW2 I prefer OW1. I've been playing since launch of OW1 and through the life of the game I never got burnt out even during the dry spell. Fast forward to OW2 and we're not even two years into the game and I'm already burnt out. I used to mostly play tank and now I only play dps and support. Every time I go to queue for tank I'm quickly reminded why I don't. I love being told I'm bad but my team won't swap or help but I'm expected to swap, take space, peel and take point. There have been games where we are doing great then the enemy team will make some swaps to counter us and there's nothing I can do because my teams comp isn't optimal vs theirs. I have Winston they go Reaper, Muaga, Parah, Mercy, Bapt. I swap to Mauga or DVA and they go Ana/ Echo meanwhile my team stays with the same comp the entire game then I'm blamed. I don't even wanna play comp anymore and mostly play quick play. People say oh but OW1 had double shield and a lot of cc. Hmmm cc has been slowly creeping up in OW2 and as for double shield Orisa lost her shield.

[@Lenodan100]

What I have begun to learn is that 5v5 or 6v6 doesn’t have the answer perse, but that fundamentally the teams philosophy on tanks just needs to change. Supports for example have some really fun tools and play styles (lw pull, illari pylon, kiri off angle) and I feel like they did that to an extent with JQ, Ram and some of Balls changes but lost it with Mauga. I’d like to see the team try and cook some more with tanks before moving to a format change just because a format change won’t necessarily make tank better, if anything it just hides its problems without fixing them which could lead to them just getting worse all over again

[@laughing5752]

Agree and disagree, the problem a lot of people have is the gameplay loop. Ow1 made that gameplay loop more rewarding for tanks. OW2 has shown that even when tanks are good in overall balance they still feel shit to play

[@nlvghost4207]

In metal ranks, I flex que on an account and almost always get tank

[@jacquesdubois3544]

I queu dps and support and get support 90% of the time

[@nlvghost4207]

​@@jacquesdubois3544I was saying regarding que times between all roles in the beginning. Not flaming, but iirc support has always been the fastest que

[@nlvghost4207]

​@@jacquesdubois3544I think that's because support has always been the least played role in the game iirc

[@Real_MisterSir]

Yup same in higher ranks, I actually noted down over the past 20 hours of games, I got dps 2 times from flex queue, the other 99% of matches I got tank. Flats' experience may be biased from his specific region and matchmade player pool he queues into. Or he got a bit of that unknown streamerqueue #conspiracytinfoil

[@nlvghost4207]

@@Real_MisterSir yeah prolly not region, I would agree it could be his player pool/and he hasn't really felt inspired to play allot of tank this season in ranked either

[@Real_MisterSir]

I actually counted. Over the past 20 hours of quickplay games, where I queued flex, I only got another role 2 times. Apart from that, it's tank 99% of matches. Tank is not more fun (and I say this as someone who primarily plays tank). Especially not vs a tank, you just gotta run the fuck away and basically hope your gigatank can keep their gigatank at bay cus if they can't, you're fucked. Unironically tank diffing goes so much harder now than before, and the only time it's actually playable, is when both tank players are shit at their job and don't actually know how to play for space. Or if they're both good, but that never happens so no reason even hoping for that outcome.

[@LosrSquad]

stfu tanks fine

[@nlvghost4207]

Honestly happens to me 😭 I can be so bad at tank sometimes and so is the other tank, so we just end up *hello* to each other and run it down, while we get chewed out by our team; since we're gonna get chewed out anyways

[@HugeHaddock]

Tanks are stronger now. But if you're not careful, you'll still be melted by the dps in 2 seconds. I like the way the Tanks are now, and I normally play DPS or Support. If I'm out of position, the enemy Tank SHOULD be able to punish me. Before the update, you could solo the enemy tank as Bap, Moira, Ashe, Hanzo, or Bastion

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@HugeHaddock Only if you aggro focus fire from the entire enemy team at once in a bad position. If you have even the slightest understanding of space management and target isolation, you can wreak absolute havoc for free. I can lock Winston and just roll matches for free because I'm somewhat competent on the role -but I have to work so much harder on the other roles despite being objectively more skilled at dps, but tank value (when you know what to do and dont just turbofeed), you get so much value for free due to your raw stats. No player wins vs a tank in a duel, and most people are off chasing duels to begin with so it's really easy to go up against 1-2 targets at a time at most, and you win those 10/10 times unless you massively misplay your abilities and positioning as tank. The margin of how absurd your errors on tank can be, is frankly ludicrous now. You get away with so much dumb shit.

[@brandan9883]

Heres what they could do for the 5v5 v 6v6 issue put both into the game So what they do is when you select quick play/competitive it will ask "would you like to play 5v5 or 6v6" so you select either one

[@nlvghost4207]

@@brandan9883 I think it'd be worth a try, but the balancing/patching would be insane work for the devs

[@brandan9883]

@nlvghost4207 definitely definitely but I feel like it would fix alot of issues with the 5v5 v 6v6

[@amadhatter3280]

That won't work because most random's want to play the flashy DPS role where they "don't think just shoot" so all those players (which is about 50-60% of the player base) will just queue 5v5 for the faster queue time leaving those that want to play 6v6 having to wait longer in queues then even OW1 because the Random's are all playing 5v5. In the end its has to be one or the other not both.

[@America938]

How do you balance it?

[@kalebcampos1064]

@@America938 like its 2 different games.

[@Real_MisterSir]

I think it's a bit dishonest in the tik tok about 5v5 and 6v6 being "solo and mechanical vs team based macro". Sure, that's the baseline, but it's not all. If 5v5 was just about solo and mechanical, that'd be great. But it still has team based macro, the issue however is that the team based macro is far more scrappy and prone to volatile swinging outside anyone's control -and the reverse in 6v6 where you also have solo and mechanics, but it couldn't necessarily overpower strong macro. Both formats have both, but they apply differently. So to ask someone "do you like solo and mechanics, or team based macro?" is like only taking the good parts and pretending the bad ones don't exist. Sure in a vacuum everyone will say solo and mechanics, because the idea of solo carrying and you deciding your own rank and gameplay is appealing to anyone. But that's not how it works. Try to solo mechanics your way out of a duel with an enemy giga kaiju tank after your team fucked up the scrappy team macro. You can't. Congrats, you just died to team macro, in 5v5. Where supposedly solo mechanics is the focus. Vacuum based contextless questions rarely serve any constructive purpose.

[@TheNightman.]

5v5 was made purely because they abandoned teamwork in favour of solo carry or individual play, in a team based game, because fucking western DPS babies cry all the time. Koreans show how the game is meant to be played, as a team. 6v6 222 was the way the game should have been from the start, with the DPS pool cut in half, an equal number of tanks and supports and way less dps favouritism

[@arttuerkkila3585]

Yeah the game is in a really good place when 1 out of 10 people are having fun

[@chunkbungus]

11:02 I think part of the reason why there were more 1s in response than expected is due to the kind of people OW2 attracted on release. It being f2p meant more people picked it up that didn't when there was a price tag. Unfortunately it feels like most of this crowd came from other fps titles that weren't as macro oriented as OW1 was, and assumed that it would be like the other titles they play but with a different coat of paint. This is mainly what I'm seeing from how people have acted between the two titles, with more hostility in general coming from OW2's lifetime. 6v6 can work from a functional point as that's how it was for most of the game's life, but it will be hard for people who never played 6v6 to adjust, part of which would be due to the removal of some agency from the individual's impact on the match. Regardless, this whole situation feels like a mess that seems to have no correct or positive answer. I personally think it could have been avoided if they ditched the gameplay change and focused more on the hero changes in the transition.

[@zzigyplays3223]

if we stay in 5v5, the tank needs to be this unkillable to be enjoyable. because in 6v6 you can peel for your other tank as a tank to get away, but you can't peel for a tank as a squishy in 5v5, so the 1 tank has to peel for themselves by being unkillable. it's not fun to just explode and do nothing about it all game because your team doesn't want to play meta (the counter swap meta) and focus on helping you

[@gray4675]

I think overwatch lives and dies by the fact that it’s team based. Overwatch has no reason to exist if it’s geared more towards mechanics

[@kalebtacularz8259]

Do NOT let that last guy become a dev

[@calebr8245]

Hot take: I think 5v5 can be balanced in a way where tank counter swap is not the meta and simply a small advantage like it used to be in 6v6. It will just require something a lot of people will whine about and hate. Nerf all damage and healing across the board by like 15%-25% (and revert the kaiju patch). That way tanks won’t explode when they step one micron out of place and they’re not unkillable monsters. With lower damage, tanks don’t counter each other as significantly, and only gain an edge that they have to play well to capitalize on, not just I clicked this tank I win. The retained ult charge would also have to go. Though of course dps players won’t like this because, “I won’t be able to one clip their support from 20m on tracer!” Or “I can’t look at an enemy’s general direction and instantly erase them from the game on Junkrat” Like seriously. The whole reason that tanks have to be kaiju just to not be miserable is because of the sheer amount of damage in the game. The whole health pool increase patch was meant to reduce kill time because the damage was so high. Only for blizzard to just buff hero’s like tracer, junk, Moria, and pharah because their kill times went down, like they were supposed to… now they are nearly unstoppable heroes who kill every one with little to no effort if you don’t have GM level aim.

[@RitheTheZombie]

Queue times for tank arent long anymore. In comp and qp i instantly get queue pops for tank and 3 minute queues for support/dps. People realized the role is still ass to play and unfun. (Even tho its op) honestly. If they wanted tanks to have kill pressure they could give them a weakened dps passive. Maybe take away some of their damage and or survivability. But one of the reasons tanks feels ass is that im sitting here shootinf someone for 30 days and theyre getting healed and no dps is shooting them so they dont die.

[@CRAZA-]

Classic man d

[@ChainsawingAMan]

Classic man d

[@nlvghost4207]

I think the jq/doom off tank would just function as a healthier DPS making it 1/3/2

[@tundrafire2590]

I think it's good to have both open and role queue, role for balance and open to negate that counter pick feeling, I can legit just play whoever I want

[@craftyplayz8150]

Responding with “I don’t really care” to the 5v5 vs 6v6 debate has gotta be one of the most respectable responses out there. The short was really well put together and explained the pros and cons of each format as well, it was really good.

[@sherlock6886]

The giga tanks approach could be a step in the right direction but it is making 1/5 of a team comp more fun at the expense of the other 4/5. Between all the tank buffs and dps passive, supports are the one's with targets on their foreheads every game. Supports arguably get the least value at this moment in the game yet because they provide sustain and aren't as good at dueling as the majority of dps, they are the most optimum choice to target regardless of what role you are playing. Plus, with dps passive, being a primarily heal focused support isn't nearly as viable or valuable as dps support. If the devs what to make the game fun for everyone, I would argue to buff tanks even more (or bring back 6v6 to have 2 kaiju's on a team), get rid of the current dps passive and replace it with another one that makes dps kaiju hunters, give the increased damage against tanks. This would free up supports to play how they want to play, dps can have fun shooting tanks again, and tanks will be more inclined to go after the enemy dps since they are the real threat on the enemy team for them.

[@yeetadog]

every time i hear flats say 'what do we do with the ow2 heroes in 6v6' when literally anyone who has tried knows the answer (which is that they're more or less fine) i die a lil inside

[@BoneheadGirl_]

The Classicman D cameo was unexpected

[@alexquitty809]

With the question `Individual or Team-oriented` very few people will think that team-oriented version of enemy team can be outplayed individually. And that was the beauty

[@jkid1337]

ClassicmanD jumpscare

[@thefrysh8592]

last tiktok was secretly a psyop for 5v5

[@bananabread4075]

I think really the main difference between 5v5 and 6v6 is the main difference between gaming and general right now and it's that one is more competitive while one is more enjoyment based 6v6 allows the freedom of constant battle between you and the enemy team because of how much you're allowed to take on those extra angles from having an extra player on the board but the same way everyone can acknowledge counter swapping has only become more prevalent in 5v5 it's obviously the more competitive mode especially with the smaller Maps just all being centered around keeping the team fight in one place but again that's just a preference within gaming itself Some people prefer much more competitive driven online experience wear a lot of others also want to enjoy their time at their own pace on whatever video game they decide, I guess you could say it's just unfortunate 6v6 was before 5v5 and not the other way around because a free game made for fun sounds alot better to me than a free game made for a specific competition

[@funwithgavin960]

all hail flats

[@rickydefuzz8637]

I think the talk of 5 v 5 or 6 v 6 needs to be evaluated on game modes as well. 6 v 6 could work for the game mode push because push seems to steamroll one team or the other and the robot seems to always make it to the end. 6 v 6 could result in longer fights and maybe not such a steam rolling in an inability to be able to push the robot back. Also, with a 6 vs 6 format Health pools would drop in in tanks so they would actually be killable by ultimates again

[@ayatan2147]

Tbh i think a lit of people say that they prefer 6v6 just because they aren't having fun with the game rn, so they blame it on 5v5 and hope that 6v6 will change everything.

[@AgentAaron101]

Tanks weren't having fun since the near start release of OW2. 5v5 had 2 years now to get it's footing and it still blows to be a tank player. I still want to give them another chance to make tank work, especially with some of the cool idea Alec had mentioned during the interview, but right now, it feel hopeless.

[@doktorbone]

God I just had the most random idea to make tank in 6v6 more fun. Maybe we need to split tank into 2 separate rolls. Basically split it into tank dps and tank defense. We can already categorize some tanks into these rolls so maybe just making that hard split will make 6v6 tank feel better. Idk I’m typing this while super tired so I may not be thinking straight. Edit: The solution may not even be to split specifically tank. Like what if we go back to 6v6 but we still have 1 tank. Instead of a second we resplit dps into attackers and defenders. We keep 2 attackers but we fill the last slot with a defender that works a a pseudo tank. What I’m trying to get across is maybe the solution isn’t 5v5 or 6v6 instead we should look into changing the roles themselves.

[@Midnightgirl10]

If 6v6 comes back.... Make role Que for Tank Two different categories {or basically when you pick one certain tanks are unpickable cause you cant have double Shields or two non-Shields} Off Tank: Doom, Dva, Ball, Mauga, JQ, Zarya, Roadhog, And Orisa and Main Tank: Winston, Sigma, Ram, (Add more tanks with shields in future...). {I mean certain tanks could be a Main like Mauga/Zarya but I think personally I want Shields/No Shield, I'd hate if my both my tanks wanna dps as something like Doom/Mauga or Ball/Doom} Now they could do this with dps however I dont know if that's easy to convince but if so..... Attack DPS: Cree, Genji, Parah, Reaper, Sojourn, 76, Sombra, Tracer. Defense: Echo, Bastion, Ashe, Hanzo, Junkrat, Mei, Sym, Torb, Venture, Widowmaker {Eliminate double sniper would be ideal as well as doubke turret!!!! Its no fun!} ~Also side note Echo could be seen as attack but she feels like base off of the way they character plays its more fitting as a defensive role~ I dont think DPS needs its role separated personally but this is what I do

[@failedorgan8747]

From my experience of OW2, I think the issue is that tanks have fun when they can make an impact and kill targets. Whereas DPS have fun when they kill stuff without being killed, and supports have fun when they can protect their team mates and asstist in team fights. Unfortunately, these obviously can't all happen for both teams simultaneously. It will be insanely difficult to balance the game in a way that even lets all players have fun in MOST of their games let alone all 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@Cthulhu357]

So down for 6v6 but i just had the thought of vs a hog pulling you into a mauga… or a queen dive you with sigma poking you down but you are stalling as long as you can all while your tanks are struggling to 2v1 the tracer

[@uncleasmo657]

I solo queue so when ow2 released I quickly climbed and stayed higher than I ever was in Ow1, which is technically less frustrating because it shows my individual skills were higher than my Ow1 Sr showed... But I still preferred the team work because that's what made Ow fun. If I want to do individual stuff I'll go play death match or a different game.

[@deathgazereaper2130]

3:35 that’s the point flats.

[@Orthane]

Coming back after a 2 year break. I remember when OW2 first launched tanks were outrageously overpowered, with the exception of Doomfist. They were all just 2-3 shotting DPS and healers, and it was impossible for DPS to do anything of worth. Honestly I kinda feel like nothing has changed except now they have even more health and 3-4 shot instead. I'm gonna be real, DPS feels like a cosmetic role at this point, and it always has. Anyone saying otherwise is just lying, there's a reason GOATS was so dominate for so long. Tanks and Supports have always been overpowered.

[@Illandarr]

Honestly I've yet to hear 1 bad OW take from Ocie

[@brandonnowonline6533]

The thing that set Overwatch apart from every fps game on the market at the time like CS:GO, Call of Duty, Battlefield and even parts of TF2. Was that it was TEAM oriented game that required less mechanical skill than most other FPS games and more brain power and tactile synergies with communication between you and other players. Overwatch 2 is almost the opposite of that, where a good widowmaker all of a sudden is the Admin in the lobby having the most fun, or a pocketed Soj or even Pharah. Currently tanks. Individual performance isn't what made Overwatch good. It's what is actively making it bad. The format has changed to bring in an audience that doesn't want to play and is currently driving out the fans that enjoyed the game how it was. No nostalgia glasses, just factual information about how Overwatch was marketed, played and honestly enjoyed.

[@mcl4549]

real ones remember when rein shield had 2000 hp

[@omarmohanad9342]

They more they buff tanks the more frustrating it become to play this role, now when tank dies in one team the other team will win the fight

[@PokkiD]

I never played OW1 but I want to experience the 6v6 play style

[@TMC_TimeLine]

I personally like overwatch more when it is focussed on teamplay and game knowledge over mechanics and individual performance. Why? I feel like a game like overwatch can be compared to league in terms of what I find important in the game. In both mechanics and individual play matters a lot, but until you get to the really high ranks you can get away with being really knowledgeable about the game. Knowing matchups, teamcomps, synergies and anti synergies makes up for a lot of the game and can skew games really in your favor. Especially in games with individual characters, abilities and roles this matters a lot. There is a reason we have overlapping heroes within the roles, and that is because you can pick any of them depending on the synergies within the team. In a more individual and mechanics focused game I find that these different heroes and abilities don't make much sense. Because in every meta there is an objectively better hitscan, tank, supp ect. So if you can make more impact individually because 1 certain hero is strong, why play another? In OW1 it was more focussed on teamplay, and you could make everything work even in the highest of ranks, as long as you knew how to play around your team and around the enemy. Ball was an unorthodox hero but could work really well with the correct team and communication. I think the biggest example of this is the former team of Clockwork Vendetta, they played in contenders and the team was made up of only 1tricks, and they did really well. The reason is that they knew how their heroes functioned and how to play around eachother. This showed that game knowledge can bring you to the highest levels of play, and that is the overwatch that I personally love

[@drantino]

10:00 i maybe someone who enjoys mechanicly dominating where its possible, but i would actually prefer a more team oriented based game. the feeling of something like EMP/hack+like idk how many different abilitys feels universally more satisfying then a widow 1v4 a entire team. both are still really satisfying, but i prefer the team oriented stuff. and honestly imo because how ovrewatch heros work, teamwork is more inherint with the majority of our ability kits. 15:21 anas nade has always bin oppressive, it forces anyone effected by it into a defensive position piriod. sure it took forever for people to realize just how much it was in early OW1, but its bin one of those ones that keeps getting nerfed because how storng it is. dont think the guy knows just how strong it is and always has bin.

[@Villani_AV]

I've actually started climbing back up in tank rank now that there's more impact to being a tank

[@Villani_AV]

Also , is there really no open queue on PC?

[@killer12442]

Thats first dude was huffing that copem, but you know they should do 6v6 but not an extra tank it should be support then we really break the game

[@1singrid]

The people saying 1.5 are taking such a cop out answer. That mindset will only lead you to disappointment no matter how they balance. It just tells me they don’t even know what they want. If you played ow1 AND 2 you would see that having both individual skill shine and team based play shine is damn near impossible to pull off. The 2 concepts conflict each other so much that having both be present at the same time is just an egregiously unrealistic expectation. Of course their will always be outliers but those will mostly exist at the highest levels of play. Something that 99% of us will never see.

[@Spahki]

I'm biased because i stopped playing a little after OW2's release. Gimme 6v6 back. I was a tank main. I didn't like being counterswapped, and having 2 tanks made it less of a problem. One tank could sub in when the other's defences were failing, so they didn't need as much health and were better punished when out of position or not subbing in properly. The problem with that was Orisa/Sigma making an invincible barrier spam, and the Orisa rework would have changed that. Supports needed nerfs to healing output and utility. Blizzard should just swallow their pride, boot up the time machine, and re-introduce the new heroes/reworks under close scrutiny.

[@TokiroAyakashi]

I've been saying this for the longest time, Make everyone OP equally, its ok to have broken characters all over, as long as they're EQUALLY broken and op. Marvel Rivals has shown this, people like feeling like they do impact, they like to feel like they do something. The fact you have to micro analyze every choice because everyone just does mosquito like dmg is mentally taxing. Sure it sucks being one tapped, or frozen, or having your shit rocked, but if you can do it too it feels more fair. Its ok to balance out things that are TOO BROKEN, but just nerfing every character just makes them unplayable and people will gravitate towards those that can have more impact because of their cheat-like skills that give advantages regardless of how many nerf they recieve. Basically if you make everyone OP, even counters can be countered with better skill. Is generalization of my opinion but I hope I made sense.

[@Ohm_finder619]

I agree that all those tank changes made the tank role overall better and I've been enjoying it a lot but mauga genuinely needs to go to a farm and never come back because he's somehow worse to play against than orisa.😅 Atleast orisa got punished for just walking out in the open without any backup. Mauga literally invites that play style.😂 I was genuinely excited for a while when I saw the tank buffs then mauga just got more buffs making the other tanks obsolete yet again. Is mauga breaking the game? No but he's not doing it any favors either. Just like Moira some characters are best fitted to be starting characters that aren't that strong because anyone can play them well enough to get value. In my opinion mauga should be about the weakest tank with a few exceptions to certain rock paper scissor duels. Sorry for the rant btw.😅

[@Impromptwo]

While i enjoyed the tank buffs initially, I'm finding that I'm having less fun on the role now, rather than more. Tank gameplay is still very much a game of counters, and now that every tank is mega buffed, it just means they counter each other that much harder. So now if you don't join in the counter picking, you are never going to win, period.

[@pud469]

They should have never jammed 2 tanks together 50/50. Damage output should not have changed. 75% defense, 25% offense should be the split. Reducing the tank distance damage, I think, would improve the game, with increased defensive pool. Give more to following the tank, group fights.

[@unstugen340]

Open queue never left, there are still quickplay and comp game modes. Idk why people are saying "bring it back"

[@DcLoki12]

3:23 took a huge L saying he coukdnt kill a tank. I bet hes a dps support trying to 1v1 a tank. 😅

[@afanas4635]

Does bro not know the dude at 6:30 is an Overwatch League Coach of course he’s going to cook

[@TheCapitanoPlan]

Ngl CAPPPPP maybe on PC Tanks is the most played or the LONGEST QUE , it’s actually DPS and Healer (CONSOLE) @Flats Two

[@overpoweredcrew1604]

the guy at the end basically said make the tanks dps's instead

[@advan2985]

Tanks should be bullet sponges. Thats why they’re tanks. They’re supposed to be high health bullet sponges that output lesser damage to equal out. I think tanks should be kinda higher power because they’re the only one with that role on their team and the frontrunner. ESPECIALLY, with how the powercreep has gone with other heroes. I think they’re a little overtuned rn tho. I’ve still thought it should be the tanks that have the dps passive tbh. The dps passive would still be there, but it wouldnt be as oppressive as it is with 2 dps shooting everyone at the same time. Especially with tanks being towards the front, they typically know whats going on and whats going to happen more than the other roles. Just my opinion, im not a pro so idrk

[@Sevse-nh3fi]

My opinion on whether or not 5v5 or 6v6 is a better option is that it isnt my job to figure it out, and if it is; I sure as hell am not getting paid for it!

[@unclefings]

In 6v6 all new Tanks would work better as DD. DF back to Fun Fist. Mauga would be nice as a DD, a walking Bastion with rein charge, Ramattra would be like he is now but without a shield, or apply a mini shield onto himself. JQ could stay as she is.

[@ZethranOverwatch]

Ah yes tanks should not 1v1 dps. Next time I'll let them shoot my shield and then not swing on them when they're in front of me.

[@Jbindacut]

It’s crazy that they just changed the game to 5v5 without any proper testing or community feedback and just tell us to accept it as the norm. Crazy that ohhh now we gotta run these tests to see if 6v6 is the way to go, where were those tests in ow1? The 2 was just an excuse to add aggressive monetization. It still feels like ow lite, like a beta, 2 years later. 5v5 will never be peak Overwatch. How can it honestly with lower skill ceiling

[@alexanderkyle]

I hate the mentality people have that 6v6 would somehow fix everything single issue with Overwatch 2, or even that 6v6 would be objectively better.

[@anyotherbusiness6210]

the point about q times at 1:00 is BS, i get 30 second q's for tank in m1 but 5-6 mins q's in mid diamond whenever i flex to dps. tank is just not the longest q time rn at ALL

[@calebmiltonhallam9083]

As someone who has insta locked tank since overwatch 2 since ramattra released ( and the highest ive reached is plat 2 season 8/9), the lower ranks feel so rough since the dps passive was introduced. The only difference i feel since the most recent tank buffs is that I either roll, or I get rolled. Theres barely any back and forth anymore. (Is this just a lower ranka thing?)

[@dementeddingo321]

Personally, the reason why I'd prefer 6v6 is that on average my teammates somewhat know what their doing. But there is always that 1 guy. In 6v6 that one guy means less but in 5v5 he means more so it'd be less frustrating for me I guess. It won't be perfect and we won't know for sure until we try it but I want to give it a go anyways.

[@psycow3076]

I think people forget ow1 had a major issue being rampant boring ass CC which ow2 has beautifully fixed imho. Ow2 put mechanical skill in the forefront and has fixed a lot of ow1 issues but now is time to realise that 6v6 would work better after said fixes, and also nerf healing new healers are braindead (except you illari i love you)

[@narcodixyadigg781]

I dont mind the tanks being strong and needing coordination and team shooting to bring them down. That said, I think the tank should be the only characters with pickable passives. It would make people want to play the role because it's different and give tanks more options to play into counters. Also, it is not as difficult on the balance side. Dont like the notion that synergistic CDs dont exsist in 5v5. Everyone points to the tank synergies as like the pinicle of execution when in OW2 they just shifted the dynamic to playing with dps or support CDs

[@biggestenjoyerofthebiggest7796]

9:41 when I want to play a more individual focused game I just play tf2, it's more fun in every way, it's got way more variety, it's funnier, it's less toxic there isn't a single thing ow2 does better as an individual centered game than tf2 except for not having bots in casual servers and being regularly updated literally the only reason I personally play overwatch is to play a *team* based shooter but ever since mauga got released there hasn't been a season where there hasn't been a server admin character that you can just pick and you win the game only being a fair game if someone on the enemy team is an owl team ace or someone on your team also plays the server admin character turning the entire game no matter what's picked into a 1v1 with 8 spectators throwing drinks at eachother over the field

[@SophSophSoph298]

The thing i dislike about 5v5/6v6 conversations is how often people include more CC or Ult economy as downsides for 6v6, personally i think we can bring the old tank passive and lower the cc in a swap to 6v6. Besides that, don't care

[@whiteflash6579]

Solution? 1-3-1 why? Because tank already has self sustains, support is there to fix "minor" mistakes, dmg role wants to flank sometimes, do 1v1 on the side of battle, they will have the space + 4v4 with a 1v1 going on (on the side) will be super sustain able, no one will cry for heals cause there is no heals in the first place and if you die...80% of the time It is your own fault in live version, now it's 100% your own fault.

[@AwesomeOpossums0]

I personally thought tank was infinitely more fun in 6v6 than it is in 5v5, i used to queue JUST for tank all the time, but i cant really see myself doing that anymore

[@bonguly9245]

14:28 reversed curse technique. Doom was once a dps and is a Tank now. Junkerqueen already Looks more Like a dps than a Tank and I personally think she would be a very nice to Play dps. And mauga would be a chunky dps. Tha big Boy. Basically a broken Bastion from ow1. So He is probably the only real menace

[@FossilApostle]

So the problem (q times, 5v5) relies on supply and demand of the tank class. If anyone understands tanks, they are the math nerds. Big number equals big win. OW1 did well because it focused on the team synergy that makes your teams number bigger If people want to play a dps focused game, there are better games out there for that: csgo, cod, valorant, etc. All the other tank mains that dont normally play shooting games just now play other games instead. Again, supply and demand. If the game isnt for tanks, why do we have an OW2 anyway? It feels worse than OW1 in almost every way. And we didnt get the pve we were promised

[@eugenioramos1760]

Honestly it's crazy you can't balance out the character because you'd have to make major changes to everybody and everything not to mention there would only be 1 meta till the game dies and it'd be boring so I like how they switch it up and change it

[@tylerbalazic4592]

Role queue has to be in the game but what if 2 slots were a flex role? One tank tank one DPS one healer locked with max of two per role. You could have 2 tanks 1 DPS 2 healers 212, or standard 122, or 221. Still 5v5 but way more variability even if it means bringing back double barrier all the tanks would need out the gate nerfs if you lock two tanks at the beginning

[@jowofoto]

Have it to where you can only switch between two characters throughout the entire game

[@jowofoto]

Besides I think it's kind of weird that you can pick any other character in the middle of a game anyway... and why not let there be a time penalty for swapping characters why does it have to be instantaneous like that? And having two characters only to choose from of the list you could potentially have Team setups as well

[@claridge7549]

Tank is way more fun to play now. What is not fun, is your whole team complaining when you’re not rolling the other team. If the team is losing, it’s always the tanks fault. That’s never going to change 😂

[@dirusj4006]

This is from weeks ago. What he said was true at the time but people quickly learned tank still sucks... tank queues are back to instant

[@DarukaEon]

People who want Open Queue never played during Goats era nor have they had to sit through a comp that had 6 people who wanted to play DPS and sat in spawn minutes after the doors opened arguing about who should swap to "healer", then the singular "healer" gets flamed for doing a shit job, but yeah okay pop off anyway king/queen. 😅

[@Abraham_Belmont_V]

Peace be upon you. ^w^

[@Meowchii]

Open queue I had fun but I hate the one experience I had where the alll went tank while my team went the the usual two support two damage and a tank we had to change to almost all tanks to beat them so I never wanted to open queue again

[@Gerhard242]

Tank is still not fun but Tank is the strongest

[@TzarChimken]

I liked 6v6 because me and a friend would duo que tank and run rein zarya and have so much fun even if we were losing, yes now we still can combo with it but it's just not the same as a tank player i do love not getting blown up immediately but i miss those moments with my friend

[@morevrai]

I wish they would do more reddit ama/suggestions(obv not hero based to avoid bias on that front) of like overall gameplay/thoughts/survey/anything to gauge how the community feels abt it. I get emails all the time abt my stats throughout the week send me a survey or smth pls

[@heresyslayer2734]

Bring back open que, BROTHER ITS STILL THERE

[@Rinzee]

The only thing that catches Flats off guard is a Salad