P-51D - Wing Line Method of Ground Attack

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You can find me easily and connect with new pilots on my Discord here: / discord
This lesson teaches you how to perform ground attacks using the "Wing Line Method" in the P-51D. It requires a special skin which can be downloaded below, but it also includes a skin for the P-47D and the Wing Line layer so you can add it to your own skins if you wish: www.dropbox.com/s/klnatpzzdhw...
Air Forces Manual No. 64 Download: www.dropbox.com/s/dvywtfij2m8...
Comments and feedback are always welcome, so if this video helped you out hit the like button and let me know in the comments below. Cheers!

[@Sundowner111]

Excellent! In 1945 USAAF documentation (Fighter Gunnery) there are also tables, and painting diagrams for P-38. That aircraft was obviously ommited from newer documentation like the 1950 one, that had only F-47N, F-51D and F-51H (also designation changes from "P" Pursuit - to "F" Fighter).

[@TheRaptorXX]

Have you got them? A link or something? Pretty please?

[@Sundowner111]

@@TheRaptorXX The document in question would be "Air Forces Manual No.64 - Fighter Gunnery Rocket Firing Dive Bombing " from 1 May 1945. Unfortunately from that one I have only pictures of few pages, and regarding the P-38 is this one: www.dropbox.com/s/0q6beeq1uo69rxt/524564653_o.jpg?dl=0

[@Sundowner111]

Umm... I just find it on eBay and bought it, should arrive sometime in February.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks Sundowner :-) The 1950 version is the one I have and based this video off it. I knew it existed but I couldn't find the 1945 one anywhere! Very glad to see someone has the 1945 version! I wouldn't mind doing an example video using the P-38 if you were willing to share the relevant data for approach speeds and wing line specs for Raptor to make a skin. I actually had to make a slight change compared to the 1950 version at 7,000ft and 11,000ft in the P-51 (with bombs) because the performance loss created by the bigger bombs we have available requires a little extra time to be in position.

[@Sundowner111]

@@RequiemsACTL Sure, I also have the 1950 one in its entirety, and was looking for the 1945 one for 7 years now. Once I'll get it, I'll digitize it, and will share it with you guys.

[@nathanleonard9952]

Your tutorials have truly saved my warthunder. Thank you for all your hard work!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Glad to hear you enjoy them Nathan, as long as you have wings and engines these tutorials will apply regardless of the sim. Maybe one day you can give Il-2 or DCS a try if you haven't already :-)

[@Glow6703]

The K-14 or K-14A gunsight used in P-51D is 70 mils. The N-9 gunsight used in earlier airplanes is 101 mils. 101mils is a bigger circle than 70mils see: Air Forces Manual No.64 - Fighter Gunnery Firing Rockets Dive Bombing 1May1945.pdf DCS P-51D-25 P-51D-30 Both use K-14 the one with second gyro circle, like you can read in a DCS P-51D manual. That was a factory standard. IL-2 P-51D-15 use N-9, that is 101 mils and K-14A is an optional mod. Requiem mention in other of he's video, about 70mils sight in P-51D, so don't be confuse.

[@OLIV3R_YT]

Thank you!

[@JorgeHFJ]

Wow! Amazingly accurate!! Thanks for sharing!

[@Oliver_JW]

I had wondered before when I saw them what the lines were for, I learnt something pretty interesting today.

[@RequiemsACTL]

When I saw these wing lines (minus the numbers) on some model airplanes I did some searching and spent plenty of time trying to figure out what they were. I finally came across the right document detailing things and practiced the approaches to get them right, so it worked out pretty well and was interesting to do for sure!

[@samuelherbasfernandez2743]

Thank you for this excellent video and for sharing your knowledge with us!

[@HernanMoragaMmHs]

Nice executions, great video!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Cheers mate!

[@DeliriumT]

Great video and great resources! That book and the skins are awesome Thank you very much for this, Sir :)

[@tedwaetford]

Firstly I would say your videos are the best tutorials on youtube. Theory and practice. Short and succint. I watch them over and over. And it's great to hear a fellow antipodean accent for a change! Well done, much appreciated. Question on this - if when you get to the roll point and you haven't lined up perfectly with the wing marker (either out or in), what do you suggest to compensate in the dive? Change the aim point? Change the timing? I've been trying to figure out the theory and got myself confused!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Thanks Ted, appreciate it mate :-) If you haven't lined up perfectly...just use the technique for whichever one you are closest too. They don't vary too much between them all so you should be accurate enough picking the closest one.

[@saucejohnson9862]

6:13 for those who don’t want to use a stop watch, he fired from roughly 3,000-2,500ft altitude. IIRC that’s what DCS said as well. Trust it, your ordinance will hit from that altitude.

[@OpticF]

If I understand correctly, these are precomputed weapon release points for a given altitude, distance and speed. And the point where the line crosses the wing edge is used to measure the distance to the target, given that we know the angle and the altitude of the aircraft.

[@Sundowner111]

Yes, later on (1950s-1970s) the timing of the dive was replaced by hitting specific numbers of altitude and airspeed, assuming specific dive angle. Since the aircraft were Jets, and the wings were now behind the canopy - the canopy frame elements were now the new reference. At least for the aircraft that were not specifically designed for landscaping, like the A-7 or F-105.

[@johndove2439]

Man, you're incredibly cool!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Just trying to make everyone's flying a little easier :-)

[@bjsracer]

Great stuff.

[@BikingVikingHH]

thanks for making these

[@RequiemsACTL]

You're welcome, glad they're helping out!

[@JCLlindo]

Because of this video I was second on the leaderboard on Combat Box last night!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Excellent! :-)

[@tuffguy007]

Very well done, and good shootin'! Thanks.

[@TheRaptorXX]

Fantastic! Another classic from the stable Req!! ;-)

[@RequiemsACTL]

Wouldn't have been possible without you making the skins and putting up with my OCD about them :-P

[@TheRaptorXX]

@@RequiemsACTL Aww, SHUCKS!! OCD is one of the few ways to get what you're after and I am totally sympathetic though not necessarily OCD!! ;-)

[@TheRaptorXX]

... and thanks to Sundowner the means may be there for the Lightning as well?!!

[@shadowcloaksimulations1015]

Thank you very much!

[@skidzholeshot1316]

Brilliant,thanks.

[@HarryMcW]

Great stuff, very useful!

[@RequiemsACTL]

I hope you can give it a try!

[@HarryMcW]

@@RequiemsACTL Yes, I think very useful on many servers, esp those with a dynamic ground campaign (Finnish war server). They don't seem to have the 51 but most times they have the 47.

[@HarryMcW]

I gave it a try off-line, works! I got a bullseye with bomb in the P-47 against an artie gun. Only thing with the 47 is I can't see the 70 or 110 lines with canopy closed, so did it with the 50 line. Rockets also were a bullseye. Impressive technique!

[@ryanlegrand141]

Nice vid! Do you find these things reading manuals?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah. This technique was in Air Forces Manual No.64 - Fighter Gunnery Rocket Firing Dive Bombing

[@Parte]

Hi! nice videos! please can you make a tutorial about how to use the camera views? I know you already have one but I didn t get it.. maybe recording keyboard and joystick too so we can have a good idea how to set them.. please I beg you

[@norcalsrt1214]

Can u do a vid on how u set up your stick and rudder controls. I cant get my stick to allow smooth movements always super jerky and impossible to get sights on target

[@RequiemsACTL]

I use a pitch curve and rudder curve with a value of 20. Try that and see how it feels.

[@ColonelAkirNakesh]

Hi! Do the rocket tables also apply to the HVAR rocket? Thanks for posting this.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah they should still work

[@airfigueruelo3644]

Love

[@marybethsmith2648]

You've added a layer to the skin file to add lines to the aircraft skin. Is there any way to add lines to the surface of the canopy glass? The Ju-87 and others have dive lines on the canopy.

[@RequiemsACTL]

I assume you could, but that would require modifications to the base game files so while you could use it in Singleplayer with mods on, you would be unable to use it in Multiplayer. This is because the cockpit glass is not considered part of an airplane's skin file, so you would need to figure out which game texture is responsible for the cockpit glass.

[@lee_m5304]

Hello, this might me an odd question but is your TrackIR setting linked somewhere or could you share it? Looks very well optimized (for you ofc) but I can't find the right setting for me.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Hi Igronami, you can find my trackIR profile in this thread: forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3625-air-combat-tutorialstir-profile-angle-off-charts-updated-17-january-2020/

[@lee_m5304]

@@RequiemsACTL Thank you very much! :)

[@tonykeith76]

Great video ! Maybe it's interesting to know, that Clostermann warned the HQ, that he'll never will attack barges again, because one time, while firing with cannons, he saw a woman with her baby passing through a door on a barge.. He stopped immadiately.. He added that he watched the camera gun film dozens of times to check if he hitted them

[@RequiemsACTL]

That's a pretty cool bit of info about Clostermann. Thanks for sharing it Nuzio

[@tonykeith76]

​@@RequiemsACTL !t is a pleasure for me to share these things....

[@jeffreyleftovers]

so i tried putting these lines on a corsair in warthunder by copying the angles off of the same reference point as these skins... and it sort of worked.. the 20 line is off... i think because the F4U wing is further forward.. so a 20 line of equal angle results in a wider mark.. which puts the target too far away. Is there some math on how these lines are found? id imagine youd need a triangle where the angle of the hypotenuse (the line we draw on the wing) varies depending on the lengths of the other two sides.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah I'm not sure of the math behind it and it would take some time along with trial and error to confirm it. I have the exact measurements from a post WWII manual and sent them along to RaptorAttacker who skinned them directly using a blueprint to ensure the skins were accurate.

[@dcbadger2]

You seem to keep the plane from wallowing when rolling level. Are you using any rudder counter to the roll direction or something else to make the entry and exit of your turn so smooth?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Just practice and trying to not to overcontrol by adding too big an input initially. You'll need some rudder but it's not a huge amount. Try adding a curve to your yaw axis of around 20-40 and see how that feels.

[@Claude-Eckel]

Try this: *_'Sensitivity Settings - IL2 BoS'_* kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5bLpIeCfLOeoNU It helped me a lot. I always went for the untampered linear input, coming from DCS where it is recommended e.g. in the MiG-21bis manual, written by a former MiG-21 pilot. And I never wondered why it's so hard to control with this kind of input. Always thought it's me. And I didn't want to use curves, as in a real plane without fly-by-wire or any other additional actuators you also have direct inputs to the plane's control surfaces. There is no actuator dampening or amplifying your inputs either. But this is simply not recommendable for PC Sims. Just saw a real Airbus pilot (and flight instructor) on Twitch the other day, who also had had difficulties to control even the very good-tempered Cessna 172. When asked by a chatter why he didn't use linear profiles, he told him outright that that's a mere mess and had nothing to do with how the real Cessna reacts to stick or rudder inputs (and he uses a Warthog). I can second that. But it may also depend on the stick you're using, how sensitive it is from the gitgo. With Thrustmaster's magnet sensor technology and precise 16,000 bit rate it might work also with linear settings (Warthog and T.16000M), but with my pretty unresponsive, sluggish Saitek X52 (still a real Saitek, not the later Mad Catz or nowadays Logitech ;) ) linear inputs are not recommended at all. I had to learn it the hard way. Before this thing sends inputs it's already too much for linear settings. So, I was glad to have figured out that it was not only on me, but first and foremost on the wrong sensitive settings. Even more so in IL-2. Curved profiles do not mean less realism, in fact they add to the realism, as the plane's controls start to feel much more natural. It's a general software/hardware issue on PCs, I assume. How I wish we would eventually get modern FFB HOTAS systems for flight sims, just like the gazillion of FFB wheels for every mediocre racing sim. That would help a lot to control the planes more naturally not only by shifting a cam on a screen around. It's already too hard to "fly" when you can't feel the plane with your entire body, how it's going up and down and left and right, accelerating or losing speed, you would counter the lateral and vertical changes before you can really see it, because you can feel it, especially in the stick. To cut the story here, you can use Requiem's recommendation as a starting point, or try the more aggressive curves of Fly Central. It really helps a lot, even when it looks...odd to set it at 75 sensitivity or a rudder with a deadzone of 20. I have no problems anymore with tail wagging around all over the runway when the torque kicks in during take-offs, it just feels natural now. For me. Listen carefully to Fly Central (he's a real pilot too), he also emphasises that his setting matches his flying style. Not necessarily yours. Anyways, it's a good reference to start from. Edit: Oh, and try to watch it to the end. The actually setting part is only the first half of the video. But the rest is awesome too. ;)

[@HoLyzPiNoyZ]

Hey! sadly for some reason i can't pm you any more on youtube, so ill just leave a comment... Is there any possibility that perhaps, you can make a tutorial for low level, level bombing on the IL2 1942 variant? ( the one that comes with the battle of Stalingrad package ) I was watching your IL2 bombing tutorials but the gun sight was very different, so was the nose of the plane ( my version doesnt have the lines indicator ) Thank you!

[@RequiemsACTL]

Hey no worries! The VV-1 gunsight in the 1943 version is based on the 1942 PBP-1, so it's actually more similar than you think if you compare the two (which I do in the 1943 level bombing video). The thing with bombing without any kind of guidance is that you generally use the TLAR method (That Looks About Right), so once the target passes under the nose you release the bomb. I'll see if I can come up with a more concrete method to replicate but it has to wait until after I finish my upgrade training.

[@HoLyzPiNoyZ]

@@RequiemsACTL Im sure many others like myself who only owns the BoS package would greatly appreciate it! ty

[@thehobobehindyou]

Do you still accept gameplay playbacks for review? I would appreciate input on a less than ideal situation I got myself into on a recent practice sortie.

[@RequiemsACTL]

Yeah for sure, if you have the tracks and Tacview files send them my way and I'll see what I can do with them. If I can't use them in a video I'll give you some text feedback at least. You can send them to me on the forums, my name there is SYN_Requiem

[@thehobobehindyou]

@@RequiemsACTL Ok! Thanks a lot, I have the mission replay IL2 has. Its was on Combox Practice server, so i was facing AI and a Player, and ended up shooting down the player, barely lol.

[@SFonKriver]

Tell me. But is there such a method on Spitfire? If there is, tell me where to find the picture, the photo of such wing strips on Spitti ... Thank you!

[@RequiemsACTL]

No I don't believe so. This method was developed specifically for the P-51, P-47, and P-38 as far I know.

[@SFonKriver]

Thanks!

[@FlyPegasus777]

Can I go there and find the Wing Line Method of Ground Attack for the P-51D in DCS?

[@Hosscoller]

Requiem where is the database on the Bomb//Rocket/Gun line references located? I have the skins and line template, I'm going to have to have Rap upgrade the skins he made me for the 352nd..... Cheers m8

[@RequiemsACTL]

It's in the document in the video description

[@Hosscoller]

@@RequiemsACTL Yeah, thanks Requiem, I found it.

[@user-ub8gn5jt1f]

Do I have a question? When I launch a HAVR rocket according to the manual you provided, the landing point is always not at the aiming point, and the distance is very far away. But it is accurate when dropping bombs. I want to know why?

[@ericandi]

On your bomb run to the bridge, why don’t you run in parallel to the bridge instead of perpendicular, so you have a much large margin for error because you can hit the bridge anywhere along its length instead of running in perpendicular when you have to strike the narrow width of the bridge?

[@RequiemsACTL]

At 5:30 I state "Attack bridges along their length where possible. I attacked from the side to illustrate accuracy." If I attacked along the length of the bridge you can't be assured of how accurate my attack was with reference to my aiming point.

[@tedwaetford]

Hi again, do you throttle off in the dive?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Just keep the power at whatever setting you had to maintain the entry airspeed

[@samvanderhoeven7814]

Do you chop throttle when you dive? Or hold it steady?

[@RequiemsACTL]

If you check my instruments it shows I keep the MP (37") and RPM (3000) constant, so I didn't change my power setting.

[@samvanderhoeven7814]

Interesting. I feel like I come in too hot when I do that, but I'll keep practicing. Thanks.

[@cameraman502]

I've trying to install this skin. Anyone know where I should be placing these skins for p51?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Should be a p51d folder inside / graphics/skins

[@taorichan1751]

Hi what recording program do you use to record this video? :)

[@RequiemsACTL]

I used the Nvidia Geforce Experience application to record with Corel Videostudio for editing it all together

[@taorichan1751]

Hi,I also make the video about IL-2bos but when i see what i record it was not full-screen.On each side of the screen was black.I use GeForce experience to record it. Do you know how to fix it? If not its ok. :)

[@RequiemsACTL]

I'm not sure, you may need to check in the Nvidia program that you're recording at the same resolution you are playing at.

[@stang46l]

Do they have this paint scheme for DCS P51D?

[@RequiemsACTL]

I wish. I think there may be something like it...but the one's I've seen aren't painted accurately so you can use it this way.

[@stang46l]

@@RequiemsACTL Okay thanks.

[@coertlandtbauer4627]

where is the p 47 ground attack table?

[@RequiemsACTL]

It's in the pdf linked in the video description

[@lcelord3941]

where can i find this skin for the p38 if there is one?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Havent gotten around to making one yet

[@lcelord3941]

@@RequiemsACTL oh ok thank you

[@FGCH03]

What do you with the throttle in the dive ?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Leave it where it is for your entry if you're set up correctly.

[@FGCH03]

The Air Combat Tutorial Library thanks excellent vid.👍👍👍👍

[@matydrum]

The lines were really applied in some ww2 units?

[@RequiemsACTL]

The 506th Fighter Group and some National Guard Units had these markings I believe

[@matydrum]

@@RequiemsACTL Yep you are right! googled it and found war time picture of p-51D with the lines and number just like that! Cool! Didn't know that one! XD

[@9charliebgmnorthamerica271]

- хе хе . да Вы сенсей Сплинтер Макамура с Одного Удара ! ";))

[@hog8035]

If you approach and attack a target like this online you will have a very bad day lol

[@basfbasick]

Need skin for DCS

[@RequiemsACTL]

I looked at making a skin in DCS but although I can skin in Il-2 pretty well I couldn't skin in DCS to save my life

[@OLIV3R_YT]

Why didn't all the paint jobs in real life contain these markings? They seem to be incredibly useful.

[@asotelles]

Do you play dcs?

[@RequiemsACTL]

Sure do! I love DCS too :-)

[@asotelles]

@@RequiemsACTL good to know

[@kosmatix38]

Извини, но абсолютно без полезное видео, особенно для онлайн.