The Greatest God Debate In History | Jordan Peterson vs Matt Dillahunty

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#jordanpeterson #jordanpetersondaily #jordanpetersonquotes #jordanpetersondebate #jordanpetersonshorts #jordanpetersonmemes #mattdillahunty #atheism #atheist #atheistviews #pangburn #pangburnphilosophy #debate #god
Matt Dillahunty goes head to head with Jordan Peterson on God, Religion, Morality & more!
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[@Pangburn]

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[@KhaoticDeterminism]

what god debate is this? they’re not even gods dude fake news #2Spirit #indigenous #philosophy

[@jehovahtruekingdom823]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZPbeKxjpZ6EkM0

[@annemiller8227]

😅😂 I'd buy one!

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@GodcodeX77You didn't prove anything. You just wrote random words on KZbin.

[@FutureAbe]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@Rubbafingaz1]

For transparency, this debate took place in 2018. Just in case anyone believed this was a recent event.

[@aiveenmckeown6728]

It is recent it’s only 2 years ag… oh wait 6 years 😭

[@sammnyks5467]

I also thought it was recent, but a closer look at Dr. Peterson's dressing and hair, I thought otherwise.

[@KazbekMairbek]

Time doesn't matter since we don't abrogate in whole religion.

[@Rubbafingaz1]

@@KazbekMairbekTrue, but I believe Peterson's views may have slightly shifted since this talk, hence why context of time may be appropriate.

[@griffinturner5046]

Only the atheist believes it was recent. Because that’s all you got. No science backs your ignorant bullshit.

[@psychicbyinternet]

I love how they both have evil villain chairs.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@baz00katooth]

It was almost distracting, every minute or so I couldn’t help but think “Damn, those are some nice chairs”.

[@linuxramblingproductions8554]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363wow for god being a designer he sure does love making his designs evil

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@baz00katooth People underestimate hell, it is bad because it is separation from God. In a vision I was shown a person who claimed to be Christian but started fornication (premarital sex), He died relatively young and went to hell forever (1 Cor 6:9). God’s holiness means He will not coexist with sinners forever therefore Repent (Luke 13:3) and have a relationship with Jesus.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@linuxramblingproductions8554 WHY DOESN’T GOD STOP EVIL ? Suppose God were to get involved every time something bad were to happen. God can prevent fatal car accidents, child molestation, grape, murder etc This sounds good on the surface but lets dig in a little deeper. God is the epitome of holiness so He would prevent you from fornicating (premarital sex), lusting (watching pornography), swearing or taking His Holy Name in vain (so God would control your speech) , even eating certain foods or drinks (because God considers it to be junk food and it is destroying your health), hating someone ( so God would control your thoughts). You have essentially been reduced to a robot (following instructions only). But the reality is, you were created as a free creature with the ability to choose right from wrong (freewill), the ability to stop doing sin (Repentance) and to Believe in Jesus (Faith).

[@Narwal88]

JP shows what happens when you didn't know the exam was today

[@eanieilias9739]

I don't know man, seemed like there were a lot of disconnect the last time I watched this. JP was explaining things through his symbolic views and Matt didn't get it so it didn't really get anywhere aside from surface level.

[@Narwal88]

@@eanieilias9739 that's not what happened at all. JP spewed a lot of meaningless gibberish, useful to confuse pseudo-intellectuals, and MD called him out on it. The audience member's simple question about god existing after we all die just shows what a fraud JP is when asked to give a simple answer. He can't.

[@paulreader1777]

Excellent observation. And as I remember being told on some of my written papers - you waffle: you have written what you don't believe and you don't believe what you have written. This is classic Peterson vacuous hot air.

[@jamesiiimcnabb6358]

In calculus class the girl behind me was always blown away caused I'd never know when the tests were. But I didn't need to know.

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@eanieilias9739 Word salad isn't any level.

[@quietwulf]

uurgh, Dillahunty's patience is absolutely insane in the face of the constantly noise assault by Peterson. Let the man make his point damn it.

[@thedemolitionmuniciple]

sometimes I don't care for how Matt can go off on callers on the shows, but I really shouldn't talk when I have less patience after doing it for decades less than him

[@katheareese3234]

Exactly! As an open minded Christian I WANTED to hear more of what Matt had to say, and found myself yelling at Jordan to shut up and stop interrupting! And I'm a Jordan Peterson fan! Matt Dillahunty seems to be the most well spoken, calm, and reasonable atheist that I've heard. His words make you think, and I enjoyed listening to him. What I could hear of him. 😅

[@vansdan.]

he was holding back. if jbp were a caller he would have ripped him to shreds. on a debate stage, its not quite as appropriate. i could hear him almost doing it a few times but tamed himself

[@booboo4963]

Jordan Peterson is an evasive blowhard and he knows it. I have to give home credit though… I’ve seen him be asked about his personal relationship to faith/religion/god dozens and dozens of times and every time without fail, he manages to give a completely new 2 thousand word nonsensical freshman psychology student lit on high concentrate THC dabs kind of answer. It’s truly a unique and covetous talent he’s developed. And his simpleton fans who just want a daddy that will send them to their room because they’ve been bad, buy it hook line and sinker.

[@AtheistReligionIsCancer]

Mad Pedolahunty believes that there's nothing wrong about incest, and since he is one of the prophets - which in reality means gods - of atheist religion, then any atheist has to believe his divine revelations. Atheists are taught by prophets like Mad Pedolahunty and richard Dorkins that there's no free will, which means, that atheists need to be told what to think and how to think. Which funny enough is being done by the exact same prophets who told them they have no free will. Atheist religion is 1:1 the same as islame. Mupedohammad did the exact same as the atheist prophets do today. Muslims are not allowed to think for themselves either, just like atheists.

[@lokdog257]

I want a shirt that says "I may be wrong, but I don't think so"

[@meganmueller]

I feel like it's a weak statement. The better statement would be, "This is the most comprehensive view I hold, but I'm open to finding a more comprehensive view".

[@qwertyvypez]

​@@meganmuellerno lol, that doesn't sound cool. You want a cool statement on your shirt

[@trafficjon400]

How about a shirt "I may be Right, but I think I'm Left !! lol One thing I might think Right about is the way the average high controller Roller's Use their Vocals if they feel Challenged? They Seem to abruptly, when Slightly challenged improvising a Belching Word that is closest to their topic or View to, over run any understanding? Yet, Seemingly Manipulative and Honesty is somewhere out at port in Religion Debates often enough.

[@meganmueller]

@@qwertyvypez Peterson’s statement isn’t cool.

[@ManamaEd]

​@@meganmueller Says "megan mueller" like anyone would give a shit about what you consider cool or not

[@Apheem]

The noise gate is insane

[@Observette]

They actually enhanced the audio, check the description.

[@Linguae_Music]

@@Observette The noise gate is the thing that blocks out small sounds and lets in loud sounds... Like if you want to remove audio information below a certain amplitude - (like sneezes or coughs in the crowd) you can use a noise gate I think what they mean is that the attack and release of the noise gate is quite sharp and noticeable. Fixing the audio later wont change that. Although they could have "enhanced the audio" by applying a noise-gate... in which case nevermind!

[@DarkBunnyLord]

@@ObservetteAt most they take the original audio and boost/lower it. They can also apply a noise gate which means sounds below a certain level get cut out usually to stop background audio that they don’t want you to hear. Now it is possible the noise gate was awful in the original video meaning they can’t really fix that without some meticulous audio editing but regardless it doesn’t change the criticism that the noise gate is atrocious regardless of if it’s to blame on the source video or the edited reupload.

[@dtf-productions6134]

It actually is lol

[@extendedlines]

Yep. I noticed that too.

[@FFX_Memes]

This was a fantastic discussion. It really pushed the limits of just how deep this topic can be delved into. And considering the multiple instances where both Matt and Jordan had to sideswipe perpendicular topics for the sake of time leaves an incredible amount of discussion left unsaid. Hope these two cross paths again one day.

[@MichaelAronson]

"It really pushed the limits of just how deep this topic can be delved into." No limits were pushed. Word salad was served.

[@FFX_Memes]

@@MichaelAronsonWhat do you mean by word salad? Does that mean you didn’t find any of the dialogue in the video meaningful or coherent?

[@MichaelAronson]

@@FFX_Memes Meaningful? No, not particularly.

[@FFX_Memes]

@@MichaelAronson Gotcha. So why are you here then?

[@FFX_Memes]

Oh-wait-forget it. Just noticed you’ve been the policeman of this comment section for the previous several months. I could go along with it if were a week tops, but my goodness man. Best of luck to your future.

[@jerrys1426]

I loved the discussion. Insightful in many ways, but of value to only a few. So, here we are

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@jerrys1426]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 you have done all those horrible things?

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@jerrys1426 Many of them so i repent like everyone else and Believe the Good news of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of sins

[@righteousshift482]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 "Lusting sexually" isn't a sin. It's a totally normal bodily function and the human race would die out without this desire. Is "being hungry" also a sin? "Needing to take a p*ss"? "Feeling itchy?" This is nonsense. Come on man.

[@funnybusiness6491]

Jordan Peterson explaining why gum sticks to the ground: “Gum sticking to the ground, you know, it's a fascinating collision of human behavior and the tenacious qualities of urban materials. The gum, it's like a symbol of our society's desires, trying to stay connected, but then you have the pavement, so determined to hold onto it. When someone discards that gum, it's like a piece of their identity hitting the pavement, and the ground, it's not just passive, it's an active player in this whole drama. The struggle between the gum's stickiness and the ground's grip, well, it's a bit like the struggle we all face in life - between our dreams and the unyielding realities we encounter. So, next time you step on gum, just remember, it's a reminder of the delicate dance we do with the world around us.”

[@rhondaromano4531]

Very witty and well written! Love it!

[@elliotsumaire5233]

This deserves a lot more likes!

[@Real_MisterSir]

This has more applied intellect poured into it than anything Peterson has ever said tbh

[@mike9512]

Like most things Peterson says I tune out pretty early into the rambling bs while I wait for him to get to a point. But unlike him, I absolutely enjoyed your comment.

[@notrhythm]

what a quantum entangled photosynthetic response

[@johnboehmer6683]

Love this format of just having a conversation untimed, unregulated. As long as the people discussing our polite, it allows exchange of thought, and response so much more effectively.

[@MichaelAronson]

What if it wasn't polite? Would that hurt your feelings?

[@johnboehmer6683]

@@MichaelAronson Mike, why would you check in just to say something antagonistic and obnoxious? Are you ok there buddy? Since it seems you have been unable to figure it out, polite exchanges allow the exchange of ideas where we can follow easily, as opposed to the two of them constantly talking at the same time, or yelling at each other, which is often the case in modern discourse... Not so easy to follow. Which by the way, is yet another downfall of Western society since it turned its back on God, which I dealt with in another comment you responded to. Don't worry, I'll give you the rebuttal you're clamoring for tomorrow, have a good night...

[@MichaelAronson]

@@johnboehmer6683 "why would you check in" Do you . . . live here? "Not so easy to follow" It just sounds like you have comprehension issues. "yet another downfall of Western society" People yelling is the downfall of western society? I guess that means it's been falling for all of human history.

[@johnboehmer6683]

@@MichaelAronson You're unfortunately a miserable little man, clearly, you have my sympathy Mike, sincerely. It's got to suck being so empty and devoid of all decency that you can't refrain from pissing on a comment merely expressing a positive opinion about the format of the conversation. That's just pathetic buddy, how did you get this way? I'll be waiting for you to check back in for yet more proof. Dragging atheists through the mud in the process. All the best to you, and all who know you, if you could pass along my sympathies to them as well, thanks.

[@MichaelAronson]

@@johnboehmer6683 "a comment merely expressing a positive opinion" It was a dumb comment and a dumb opinion. Maybe the internet isn't for you?

[@MalkuthEmperor]

46:08 the bottle oppening at the end of that statement and then the silence was so funny 😂😂😂

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@No_OneV]

This was awesome. This is the stuff i love. Both JP and MD did very well !

[@yevgeniygrechka6431]

This really isn't a religious debate, its a linguistic debate.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

WHAT IS HE MEANING OF LIFE? To have a relationship with God on earth so you can spend eternity together in Heaven. So, what pushes me away from God? Sin (lying, unforgiveness, sexual sins from lust, dishonouring parents, steeling, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) which leads to hell. But Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the dead to give you the ability to repent and Believe in Him as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[@williamcarr459]

Fiddlesticks. Any god who would hold these things again me can kiss my proverbial ass.

[@valley5617]

That’s where Peterson lives

[@theQuestion626]

@@valley5617 And honestly it’s funny when you see Peterson try to employ tricks of linguistics and changing of definitions in order to hide the fact that he doesn’t have a solid an evidence-based argument. It’s also humorous when he tries to be philosophical, and he just face plants so hard his teeth burst out his ears. His ramblings about metaphysical substrate were hilarious. He doesn’t even make an attempt to define what he means by metaphysical substrate because we know from his past interviews that he has a different understanding of certain definitions and even scientific concepts and even history. It’s hilarious watching him ramble on and on making things up as he goes along and people sit there slack-jawed and clap like seals acting like he’s some kind of titan of intellect.

[@jordanchen23]

@@theQuestion626 I can't believe I ever fell for Jordan Peterson's bill C-16 hype back in the day. He got me. He got me good.

[@briandoerfler726]

Everyone: Matt won this debate Jordan Peterson: well that depends how you define "won" 🤡🤡

[@nicholasullery5129]

One speaking abstractly and one speaking concretely. I think you missed his point

[@valroniclehre193]

@@nicholasullery5129 Petersons abstractions have a pattern. It is the willful obfuscation between god as a reality and god as a metaphor. He wont even answer the most basic questions in a clear enough way to talk about them in any meaningful way. If he were stupid I would assume it was incidental. But hes a master of language. This is intentional, in line with a clear financial incentive to not distance the two sides of his audience. Hes to vague to be called right or wrong. So hes wrong.

[@versatilejams]

One always supposes the proposition of “win” implies the defeat or unremarkable characteristics of something in comparison. But upon what criteria is the winner chosen? When we speak of time, we say that it’s relative…. I swear, he’s got the most long-winded and verbose ways of arguing ridiculous points. Two and two does not make five, not matter how much word salad you dress it up with.

[@flashraylaser157]

​@@nicholasullery5129Well maybe he should stop the bullshit and speak concretely like we do anything else real.

[@BluishNomad]

@@flashraylaser157 Would you say math is real?

[@mrouimette]

This was so interesting thank you

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@Molten-Throne]

Great talk. I really enjoyed this. I really hope they can talk in the future and get really into the nitty gritty of their beliefs

[@thedemolitionmuniciple]

Peterson getting into the nitty gritty would involve him being clear and concise on anything at all, which would dismantle most of the ideas he has. Dillahunty could get into the nitty gritty of his beliefs if he had any, or he can delve deeper into the evidence that disproves those of Peterson.

[@SageWon-1aussie]

Peterson refuses to engage with Dillahunty after this debate.

[@daves7775]

Thank you for posting this - without a bunch of interrupting commentary; or inserting dumb images and or music. Just the discussion. Thank you.

[@vlogshd2081]

No one does that

[@donttrustthem7601]

quik and simple god is your jewish pagan god Yahwe(יהוה). why? The nation of Israel believes in a fake god (Yahweh - יהוה) who is at rest. If your fake god is at rest, who then controls the Universe and all creation?... To control all creation, the True God is needed. It turns out that if your fake god (Yahweh - יהוה) is resting, then he is replaced by another of the same fake god, and he is also resting... And so on ad infinitum, this is repeated. It turns out that in fact the Jewish fake god (Yahweh - יהוה) does not exist.

[@WhoThisMonkey]

​@@vlogshd2081 In your experience

[@daves7775]

@@vlogshd2081 Really? What rock do you keep your head under? There are THOUSANDS of videos - doing just that! One example - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIu9d32ka7Fpars but they certainly are not hard to find or run into - when delving into a topic.

[@antony5502]

Yeah i always find that annoying

[@Pangburn]

Drop a like of you want to see more discussions like this! Here is part 1 of Sam Harris vs Jordan Peterson kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3Skk4mXgMiInrssi=SpRT0Y4cnXsVn6y_

[@manifold1476]

Why would I want to watch any more of this pathetic conversation? PETERSON isn't interested in honest dialogue, and Matt wasted too many golden opportunities to tell the BASTARD TO *FUCK OFF* for me to maintain any interest in watching a rematch of this frustrating exercise in FUTILITY!

[@raya.p.l5919]

❤Tonight I will prove Jesus power. All black and white sheep are allowed level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy wash. U can reject the god. But u better not reject the power. Warning it is intense

[@skinnie2838]

God is real. The Father, The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ. 3 separate but equal persons. One God.

[@juergenernst1320]

No, not really. Seen enough of Matt

[@devontolly1596]

​@@skinnie2838Christianity is mostly all made up. You're in a cult and believe things without real evidence. The bible isn't evidence.

[@thedemolitionmuniciple]

I wonder if I'd have to define "hi" "my" "name" and "is" to have a conversation with Peterson.

[@RockSleeper]

"define "define"", he would ask. He seems to struggle understanding the meaning of most things, even the simplest of things.

[@benyoung8427]

He would probably still tell you that you're wrong.

[@S-tank_]

It's just infuriating because jp is an atheist and just refuses to admit it because his fan base is mostly Christian conservatives and they would be furious. So he just goes into rambling word salads trying to skirt around giving a straightforward "no" when asked if he believes in God. At best it's disingenuous and at worst it's a flagrant abuse of his followers for personal gain

[@ROSSI_27]

Just say you are dumb 🤦

[@tomitiustritus6672]

The infuriating thing is not that he does that, but that he himself then avoids, dodges and refuses defining any of his terms.

[@ScoobyYTP]

I believe that having such debates more than usual, would be of much benefit to our understanding of this idea of believing something supernatural. I'd like to know other people's thoughts and opinions on this topic

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@Pangburn]

We gave away 8000 meals this Christmas 😊 Here is the video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZWUgqltdt-oeNksi=VBwdhN2tbt-DSQvw

[@OrdoAbChao-kg5rf]

Now do Andrew Wilson Vs. Matt Dillamonkey.

[@garyd61]

Dam he wont.even let Peterson talk he won't even stop fucking talking

[@MichaelAronson]

@@OrdoAbChao-kg5rf What are they supposed to do about Matt and a blgot?

[@designobservatory]

Why on earth is this the greatest god debate in history? Matt Dillahunty is talking to a child here, that Peterson guy just meddling around avoiding questions because he has no answers not even worthy ideas, just confusion.

[@designobservatory]

@@garyd61 i dont see that. That peterson guy alwaays talks at least twice as long as Dillahunty, but yes, Dillahunty has much more meaning and reason to what he says in his shorter times of speaking, that is for sure.

[@chojin6136]

That was surprisingly entertaining

[@dave2848]

Back to point at 20min mark. Thanks Matt.

[@treztreiz6370]

Please tell me when JP actually answers a question

[@PortmanRd]

He seems to make a habit of promoting his own agenda whilst sidestepping any questions directed to him.

[@andresgarciacastro1783]

He's there to sell books, patreon subscriptions and other products, he isn't actually engaging.

[@cantstanditanymore]

Your just too dμmmmm to comprehend..🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

[@sirllamaiii9708]

​@@andresgarciacastro1783yeah I don't think he's a good representative of Christianity whatsoever. He's just here because he's popular.

[@RafaelValle12]

​@sirllamaiii9708 hes here because he's a thinker and a good communicator. He actively seeks the truth. I don't believe he's a Christian at all, though he does see the merit of its existence for society

[@waldemarkirszniok298]

Isn't it fascinating, that two people, who recieve so much hate on a daily basis about reportedly being disrespectful, debate on a topic to which they have opposite views, and yet they agree on so much and demonstrate an amount of respect towards each other that I haven't seen in public debate in years? This should at least in part in any debate seminar as an example on how it's done.

[@stickitupyourasteric]

As a leader in any field you can only go so far if you have thin skin.. debate clarifies

[@waldemarkirszniok298]

@@stickitupyourasteric Sadly perspective skewes the perception and influences said clarity to favor preconcieved notions, but of course, you're right.

[@MichaelAronson]

@@waldemarkirszniok298 "perspective skewes the perception" All perception is from a perspective. It can't "skew" perception. It's part of the same thing.

[@waldemarkirszniok298]

@@MichaelAronson It is. But there are different perspectives with their respective biases. Or do you disagree.

[@RufusShinra]

@@waldemarkirszniok298 Perspective conditions perception to certain degree, that's a fairly acceptable statement, there can be no objective perspective and therefore all perception goes through a skewed prism which is perspective.

[@Qred09]

I love watching both of these people. They both are very knowledgeable quick thinkers and great speakers

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@Qred09]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 nah, ima need god to clearly communicate to me before i just blindly say “ok its real” That doesnt stop me from trying to be a better person. Pretty simple. No deity needed

[@DanielRisacher]

I really hate the squelch on their wireless microphones. When they talk there is slight hiss, and when they stop it’s dead silent. My brain keeps interpreting the perfect silence as the video glitching.

[@michaelkupfer3723]

It's a noise gate. Either the sound guy on this discussion or the uploader definitely overdid it

[@josephvickers7426]

"I don't believe in God" Matt "Well if you take drugs you might!!!!" Jordan

[@dkhan88942]

Everything with a name exist

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@dkhan88942 Does Batman exist?

[@gelberfubelag4717]

@@MichaelAronson in the same world god and all other fantasy dudes live.

[@erh3196]

@@dkhan88942 my imaginary friend has a name

[@griffinturner5046]

Yeah you’re so much smarter than the guys in the debate.

[@triedbythefire4777]

Jordan- "It's not an obvious fact!" Matt- "That chopping off someone's head is not beneficial to someone's well-being?" Jordan- "Well, that depends on how you define well-being!" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Absolute classic Jordan response!!! I never thought he would take it that far!!!😂😂

[@smokeydiamond489]

Can't stand the guy. He obviously ain't as smart as Matt. Matt's arrogant af but chit he's smart

[@triedbythefire4777]

@@smokeydiamond489 Lol, you're ignorant

[@MichaelAronson]

@@triedbythefire4777 Incredible, you have literally no arguments.

[@smokeydiamond489]

He should be removed from the stage for pulling this shit

[@triedbythefire4777]

@@smokeydiamond489 Pulled off the stage for thinking more than others? Pulled off the stage for not simply excepting axioms without properly understanding the implications? Pulled off the stage for not being lazy? You're calling that "sh**"? Listen to yourself.

[@redscarecomixx]

I am impressed at the honesty and respectfulness of both these individuals. Well done

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@elbowstumblist]

I think Jordon could have argued better if he'd have sat up straight with his shoulders back

[@user-bd6eo9wk9j]

And had not been sky high on speed

[@jrojala]

Peterson appeared to be tweaking, uncomfortable, and defensive; he seemed to be unconsciously protecting his soft parts as much as possible with his hunched posture. Matt seemed comfortable and calm, his relaxed and open demeanor was a stark contrast to his opponent. It was over before it even started.

[@user-bd6eo9wk9j]

@@jrojala JP's gotta chill out on the blow...

[@jamesoconnor9452]

LOL this deserves way more likes.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

I am glad there are people tough enough and willing to have these discussions. Respect to both participants.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@hughmac13]

They ain't volunteering, friend. You'd find the toughness (though I'd dispute the necessity of that quality) and the willingness too if you were earning at the rate these discussions permit.

[@stevedriscoll2539]

@@hughmac13 You may be right, but I find it just a tad cynical, but be that as it may, I find them useful and instructive, thanks for the feedback

[@stevedriscoll2539]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 ok, fine I would hope I have the courage to stand up and fight for your right to believe as you do and put voice to it...I, however, found Hitchens (and others) arguments more compelling on why their is no evidence that what you are saying is true, even though, sometimes, I wish it were

[@thotmas3097]

We’ve been having this conversation for eons. There’s no proof god exists let’s move on

[@germantoenglish898]

“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” - W.C. Fields

[@kentonbaird1723]

I feel neither baffled nor dazzled, just vaguely irritated.

[@germantoenglish898]

@@kentonbaird1723 vaguely is good. It's positive. 🤣

[@saintsword23]

Wow, what an thoughtful, resounding, and insightful analysis of the arguments. You really addressed the pragmatic argument Dr. Peterson made for example, that effective beliefs imply true beliefs. You also had insightful commentary on how this argument is usually used by scientific materialists and it's ironic that Peterson is using it in favor of arguing for God. So well done addressing his actual arguments.

[@kentonbaird1723]

@@saintsword23 are you copy-pasting this onto every comment that judges quack Peterson too harshly?

[@saintsword23]

@@kentonbaird1723 I'll do it for any comment that ad hominem's Matt too. I'm not a JBP fanboy and I agree far more with Matt in this debate. I'm just sick of seeing ad hominems and stupidity EVERYWHERE I GO. Debate the actual arguments. Have a conversation of substance rather than "whose expert has the biggest dick."

[@rippedtorn2310]

Confusing tripping halucination as reality is dangerous . Ive pulled Celtic knots out of the Scottish countryside and heard the bizarre music of what i percieved as my ancestors permeating through time and it was profound and life changing experience buuuuut i came down . I really enjoyed all the mushroom trips i had but ive never seen them as happening outside my head . JP is a very confused guy .

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@rippedtorn2310]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 save your evil cult teachings for someone else ..better yet , understand its all made up gibberish that makes zero sense .

[@nwparker94]

hes talking about what do you mean by reality. At the time of your experience im sure it felt/was hyper-real. You called it life changing, exactly how real do you need it to be? of course its all in your head, everything is. Im not sure what you mean by youve never seen them outside your head. youve never had experiences sober? thats on you though because many people have.

[@evanr5871]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@nwparker94Reality is reality. It’s independent of one’s perception. Surely, you wouldn’t treat a schizophrenic persons delusions with this much generosity. Experiences are real in the sense that they are experienced; something very real is happening in your brain. Whether or not this experience is reflective of the world outside of one’s mind is what’s really being asked. If so, it’s real. If not, it isn’t. It’s really interesting watching and partially joining in Petersons crusade against postmodernism; this style of thinking is very post modern. This is also the shallow type of discussion had in introductory philosophy classes.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@nwparker94 People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@philwalkercounselling]

Great conversation

[@courageousmelon5654]

Jordan Peterson is to religion as Deepak Chopra is to quantum physics.

[@blabby102]

That's a perfect description of his debating style.

[@noorzanayasmin7806]

We dont understand God as much and we do not understand quantum physic as well, so you are right

[@blabby102]

@@noorzanayasmin7806 I think their comment went right over your head.

[@GoodAvatar-ut5pq]

@@noorzanayasmin7806 And it always creates this problem... Which 'gawwwwd' are you talking about? If it's the Bible gawd, that gawd has a name and a description.

[@noorzanayasmin7806]

@@blabby102 How so? Is it not true that we dont understand both concept well and trying to figure it out?

[@calebalton2084]

Jordan seems to have forgotten about the pre Greek scientists found in Egypt, in Sumeria, who built pyramids, developed writing, built ships, chariots, and had other ancient technological and mathematical knowledge long before the Greeks appeared on the scene.

[@muddywaters1472]

People like Jordan always "forget" when it's convenient for them 🤷🤷🤷

[@PsychicSploob]

One of my biggest issues with JP whenever I was interested in his lectures was that he really just ignored everything outside of his care, even though it would have been perfectly relevant and substantive to his philosophies. He’s very willfully ignorant.

[@DieLazergurken]

What’s your point?

[@vampirgirl41]

Peterson would probably say that it's because of the Gods that they had being an approach to the devine that exists. All of our social fabric existing is based on that and even 10000 years ago when tribes began evolving at a higher rate, it was due to moral standards based on solidarity, which is based on an approach to find God or to communicate what God is and all of that makes sense because of our modern understanding of God xD This is what this clown would probably say because he went in that direction xD

[@ltmund]

Are you not confusing science with engineering?

[@mm12122]

OPENING STATEMENT Fundamental presuppositions nested immovably in a metaphysical substrate in the domain of religious phenomology.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@nathanmaxey2966]

Peterson: "I'm not trying to be difficult." No, for some, that just comes naturally

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@nathanmaxey2966]

@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I don't know what people you're talking to, but I don't know anyone who thinks lying and stealing are "ok." In some cases, I'd argue that it is good to lie and steal. The world isn't all black and white like religion paints it. Disrespecting your parents isn't a serious offense. All kids disobey their parents. It's even a good thing if the parent is a narcissistic abuser. Leviticus 20 9 For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him. The God of the Bible is a monster who I do not want to be with for eternity. Fortunately, I don't believe in sin, the devil, God, or any other fairytale, so I don't have anything to be afraid of. I do what feels right in my heart with love and compassion. That is enough.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@nathanmaxey2966 Obviously there are exceptions tothe rule, alady in the Bible hid 2 men and lied about hiding them, she saved their life , if your parents tell you to jump off a brdgge then you dont listen to them but when is the last time you were in such a situation? People have bad hearts when people do what is right in their own mind we get corruption because humans need to be born again through Jesus Christ

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@nathanmaxey2966 God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.

[@rafaelthetoaster7292]

@@nathanmaxey2966 I think I can explain the disconnect here. When JP, and others who think like him use the word "God" it as a job description, a position in someones life. It is this central tenant, set of principles, experience, person (such as empearor worship in imperial Japan or N. Korea), or even a literal physical object with some more primitive societies. So isn't this just changing definitions? No, Matt and other atheists confuse these two, they are so immersed in christianity that they do not understand the difference. They believe that if you can show that Yaweh, the abrahamic God isn't real, or that he is evil, or that there is no evidence for him that people would act in a more rational and moral manner. What you call morality is just abrahamic ethics. You all are so immerssed in this view that you believe debating whether or not Yahew is real matters at all. You think it matters because you just can't conceive of other gods, and there have been many many gods there for humanity. "But those are fairy tales, like Odin and Zeus aren't real", yes but emperor Hirohito was real, we have photographs to prove it, and he was a god. The Japanese knew that he wasn't omnipotent and could fend off the allies in WW2, they also knew he wasn't a universal god, yet he was still their god. The rivers are real, I've been in some to I'm convinced of that, and they are gods to many. Money is real (sorta), I have some in the bank, and it is a lot of people's god. A painter chooses their art to be their god. Art has been many people's god; many painter's basically live lives of poverty while they dedicate their time to their art god. A narcisist has themselves as their own god, they probably don't think about if their god is real either. You can be killed for these real tangible provable gods. And many many people have died and killed for them. With this in mind, does asking whether Yaweh is real or not matter? To me it makes it seem like a big waste of time. No one can prove anything about things outside of perceivable reality. The better question asking what should be our god? Maybe we should also ask if we should have one or multiple gods, which I beleive JP has discussed before. JP is asking the latter questions because he understands this. Matt is focused on the first because he can't see the lineup of candidates out there waiting to assume the position of god. He thinks if we throw out Yahew because he isn't real then that's it! We are done! No more god!!! But this is false. To you Yaweh might be a monster, and you are glad he isn't real I assume. But there are many monstrous things out there that can become god too, and they are very very real. Trying to prove Kim Jung Un is fake won't get you anywhere with a north korean. You have prove he should not be their god. This is why JP just tells atheists they do have a god, and it is Yahew. Yahew is occupying the position of god to a western atheist, they just don't believe he is real, and they think he is an evil asshole. Yaweh is so firm in that position that the western atheist just can't see anything else being god.

[@Krikenemp18]

I usually don't care for the Q&A section of debates (the questions are often poorly framed and/or have ulterior motives behind them), but this is a rare case where I think it was the most interesting part of the debate. Fantastic questions with fantastic answers.

[@FilDoyon]

I totally agree with you. These questions was just amazing and sincerely asked with curiosity. Which is very rare. I really liked the introduction of Matt to the Q&A session. Haha. It seems to have done the job and brilliant persons stood up for asking pretty relevant questions.

[@X4lkor]

As a computer scientist one thing I found very odd was Peterson's statement that AI are not rule based systems. Ignoring the fact that he meant machine learning not AI (most AI systems are rule based in the classical sense) but even ML systems are rule based, we just allow them to change their rules while they learn, and often the rules they generate are not easy to interpret, but that in know way means that they are not rule based. The standard ML model is to multiply the input by a value, add a value and then pass it through a function. You do this a certain number of times and the result is the output of the model. I see no reasonable way to describe that as not being a rule-based system. Perhaps he means that human minds are not capable of discovering the proper rules on our own, but to Matt's point, we are doing what the ML systems are. We guess at what the rules are, and if a rule makes a bad outcome we change it. This is the exact way the ML algorithms act intelligently

[@dougschneider8243]

I too really opened my eyes at that part, because computers are my background, too -- educationally and professionally. He's flat-out wrong -- but what it does show you is that Peterson is happy to talk authoritatively about topics he has no knowledge about. Quite embarrassingly, actually, in this case.

[@webdactic]

I thought this. ML really just a way of capturing rules mathematically that are too complicated for us to linguistically (verbally or in code) express. Though neither of them seem to appreciate this, I think there may actually be a good analogy here with what Peterson was saying about brain hemispheres. The linguistic left hemisphere maybe is more like a standard piece of code with simple verbally expressed rules. If Sam angers me then don't throw him off the stage except if there's a fire. Not sure we humans really act much along these lines. Then the extra-linguistic right hemisphere maybe is more like ML that is trained by exposure to the world, its culture, narratives, art, symbols, etc. When we feel in our gut that we shouldn't throw Sam off the stage, there's surely some learned rules at play there that are a lot more complex, but it's really just the "sum" of our input/experience. Maybe one day with a brain scan, we could extract this learning as a table of numbers. If anyone can connect any of this thought splurge back to whether Peterson believes in God or not, please go ahead. I still don't know what he means by God.

[@dca4840]

He needs to stay in his lane.

[@JTeya0]

😂😂😂 that's what you took from the whole discussion

[@sudowtf]

I am happy to see someone else point this out. For a while I was dabbling with A.I. before I set my interest on Game Development. I had read many, many things on A.I. development with most of its categories. As far as I know, every single program of any kind needs to be rule based because without rules, a computer simply doesn’t know what to do or how to do things. Hearing JP say his thoughts opened my eyes to just how phony he really is. He speaks on things he knows nothing about with great authority quite often. Ask anyone with a little bit of programming knowledge the question if a program can not be rule based and they will answer with a “no”, everybody knows this

[@SupSucka]

Absolutely loved them both deeply. My favorite philosopher will always be Mr. Alan Watts! 💯🔥✌🏽

[@erth2myk2b]

...The closing remarks and handshake are exhilarating..!!! .... 🙂👍

[@siddid7620]

Damn Dillahunty really sliced through JBP's sophistry...

[@FlorissMusic]

right! it was pretty shocking to see hahaha

[@IYPITWL]

Sophistry is the absolute best word to describe JP in this debate.

[@johnfoster144]

You mean what is what? Didn't hold water for you? Let's debate the verbage of wellbeing and it's implicit expectation as it applies to people in general because exceptions exist... Man JP is an idiot. I can't have a discussion on the merits of generally excerpted principles, because then I wouldn't get to say I have a PHD. Like yes or no, do you think it's better to be a millionaire asshole only respected by tools, or just be a moderately reasonable human being... We all know how JP answers, "let's define a millionaire, like are we talking specifically from 1 million up to $999,999,999, cause until you give me an exact number that I agree upon is a millionaire..."

[@hurtingmurphy]

Guess you didn’t watch the same debate haha

[@Scawtsauce]

​@@hurtingmurphy please point out a statement where you think Jordan Peterson made a good point?

[@lipgloss202]

The metaphorical substrate is strong in this one. May the Force be with you!

[@ABC-li4he]

😂

[@J.Rose9210]

😂😂😂

[@stephenfrench3888]

👍😂

[@talonnightstar]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@sabin97]

i was gonna comment in the metaphorical substrate and jungian archetypal hierarchy.......but you beat me to it.....well done!

[@ErinWilke]

Jordan Peterson calling atheists not atheists was like an Uno reverse "No True Scotsman"

[@jestes7]

What do you mean by uno reverse? I'm not sure I understand that part. If that part were left out of the sentence, I agree.

[@SleepyMatt-zzz]

The "atheists are not atheists" argument is so old and dishonest. I'm surprised that Christian theists continue to use it.

[@lukedegraaf1186]

​@jestes7 it's a card game.

[@jestes7]

@@lukedegraaf1186 Uno reverse isn't a card game. Uno is. Reverse is a card in that game. People use the term uno reverse to mean comeback. Which doesn't make sense here. Using a fallacy as a "comeback" isn't a comeback at all.

[@vampirgirl41]

​​@@jestes7I get why you're confused, but you're too hung up on the mechanics of the actual uno reverse card. He's using it as a rhetoric device to make fun of how Peterson makes an absolutely unreasonable argument by shifting the goalpost. He changed the definition of what an atheist is by saying that through our morals we all unconsciously believe in God or something like that. It's like a kid that says "No, you" to a certain extent. Imagine you tell someone you don't believe in God and he says "Yes, you do because you believe killing people is bad". You could also use a YuGi Oh reference, saying that the mirrored his ass. There's sarcasm involved. From Peterson's perspective he believes to understand something deeper about the concept of God, but to anyone, who can somewhat think critically, he's asspulling stuff in a fashion of a uno reverse card, in an outrageous way, which makes me laugh xD

[@guidodurante9495]

1:27:27 "PTSD very often occurs in people who watch themselves do something of great malevolence". Maybe in a warmongering country that's "very often" the case, because of all the soldiers, but PTSD can occur in victims just as much. Also, there's a lot of soldiers who did not commit "acts of great malevolence", but they witnessed them first hand, being done to peers or enemies alike, and that also results in PTSD. It's much more complex than "There's an objective morality dictated by a magical being outside our plane of existence that affects us and if we suffer is because we broke that intrinsic rule of the Universe".

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

WHAT IS HE MEANING OF LIFE? To have a relationship with God on earth so you can spend eternity together in Heaven. So, what pushes me away from God? Sin (lying, unforgiveness, sexual sins from lust, dishonouring parents, steeling, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) which leads to hell. But Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the dead to give you the ability to repent and Believe in Him as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[@keiththomason5560]

On the topic of metaphyiscal presuppositions.. top of my list would be that if there was a creator, what makes us think they would care about us.

[@DeusKDuo]

This is how a debate should be. You can still have common ground while being on opposite sides. Most debates seem to be about destroying the person who opposes you pretending as if there is no value to anything they have to say.

[@godcorrodedgod]

I dont precive this conversation as a debate. Thats why it is so learning and positiv to listen to.

[@julianmanjarres1998]

They're not even on opposite sides.. Peterson isn't a Christian per se

[@brandondill5640]

There was no debate here whatsoever. JBP simply does not allow for it.

[@hijodelayoka]

This is a debate, its just, we are accostumed to what politics do in debates

[@theQuestion626]

@@brandondill5640 but Peterson doesn’t really know how to debate. I’ve watched him in the past and I’ve watched him on interviews. He has these tired rhetorical tricks that he employs where he makes sweeping generalizations, bold claims and doesn’t present any evidence to support his arguments. He rambles with a lot of academic jargon and talks and talks in order to avoid being pressed to provide proof. He also engages in a lot of epistemological games in order to further muddy the waters and confuse his opponent. And he also does this so that he can do that little giggle of his and say “I didn’t say that.” The joke being here that he doesn’t really ever say much of anything of relevance or validity. Also Peterson seems to take every form of interaction as some form of competition that he must dominate. Dillahunty is treating it as this is, a conversation. Peterson is walking up as if this is a fight to be won. His smug “Ready to go?” when Matt welcomes him onstage was a clear giveaway.

[@Ither1]

I am always so utterly blown away at how Jordan Petersen can say so much, almost like someone on cocaine, he can just keep talking for days on end, yet he pretty much never says anything.

[@ckirk7317]

JP should go into politics since they're taking his chances at Doctor renewal away. He's good at double-talking, misdirection and illusory speaking. Not real good but definitely on par for the political course.

[@MisterG2323]

Do you really want a duplicitous jackass like Peterson making critical decisions on your behalf? Really? @@ckirk7317

[@Humungojerry]

this is pre coma jordan too, when he was at his peak. look at him now

[@morganthus6323]

Only if you have the attention span of a gnat.

[@davespanksalot8413]

He’s whole demeanour reminds me of a few meth heads I’ve known in the past…

[@SpiderMan-od3kr]

I did enjoy listening to the civilized academic debate. It's interesting to hear the way that the arguments are made and dissected.

[@noahclemons6153]

Idk if it's from the live audio setup or post editing but cutting out the white noise between each word does not improve sound quality and those automated things suck

[@lewni25]

I love how much they used the ‘throwing Sam Harris off the stage’ analogy for the core of the argument/question 😂

[@bloodybonescomic]

Yeah, that was enjoyable.

[@NMSUNSETGOURMET]

If you throw the Deity off the stage all that remains is the word GOD.

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@NMSUNSETGOURMETYou can't throw deities. They don't exist.

[@NMSUNSETGOURMET]

@@MichaelAronson Not throwing imagined Deities. Throwing the things that we subjectively define off the stage to see what can be objectively defined, by what we can measure with truth. When I say the word GOD exists, its meant in an absolute way, as it needs to exist for you to see it included in the sentence. The only thing left to measure when we accept the Deity sacrifice from the word GOD is the word GOD. When we choose to use it, we can see it. If we can see it, we can choose to give the picture that the word uses to build its objective property. To give the word requires we draw it, simple truth. Rather than place the imagined pillar of spaghetti, having no objective truth. That's why I've given the word GOD the definition that's seen without the Deity, for a division of time. The argument of subjective things is division, not Holy measured. The Sacrifice of the Deity value from GOD exchanges the subjective for the objective property. That being a claim requires I demonstrate that objective truth with GOD as a measure. So here it is again: Kneel to trace picture children. G is an incomplete whole with one square angle drawn in Earth. O is a whole measure. D is a split whole with two square angles drawn in Earth. Sacrificed, Holy measured. That is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me GOD.

[@MichaelAronson]

@@NMSUNSETGOURMET Please learn English. This is so sad.

[@jackredden3445]

Imagine a political debate that could be even 1/10th this informational, honest, and polite. Two great minds, that I heavily respect.

[@MichaelAronson]

"this informational" What information did you perceive?

[@jackredden3445]

@@MichaelAronson You didn't receive a single piece of information from this 2 hour debate? They both are informing us on their beliefs, and doing their best to dissect and converse on the other person's beliefs.

[@MichaelAronson]

@@jackredden3445 "They both are informing us on their beliefs" Opinions and beliefs aren't information.

[@jackredden3445]

@@MichaelAronson really? So to know that Hitler believed Jewish people were less than human, and his opinions on how they should be treated, that knowledge isn't information? I believe you are an annoying troll, and my opinion is that you should get a new hobby besides trying to annoy people online. Hopefully this informs you of my belief and opinion. If that's even possible in your brain.

[@exyiseyres]

You owe me some pants

[@kivitropikal6755]

Noise gate feels like I'm deaf when the silence comes again

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@Cedrou21]

11:03 bro I lost it 😂😂😂😂

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@JibbaShorts]

Thank you for reuploading this with higher volume.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@jckclt]

Jordan was schooled. Crowd laughing at him

[@SleepyMatt-zzz]

Its why his manager told him to never debate Matt again.

[@faubourglincoln]

The other guy wasn’t even really trying. Petterson on the other hand was shaking and tense.

[@narlus282]

​@@faubourglincoln I think the tense shaking was from all the drugs he's on.

[@believe722]

I don't know what debate you guys saw but not had a hard time even understanding most of the vocabulary the Dr Peterson used. If Jordan was two actually debate him on his own level that would be lost.

[@Linguae_Music]

@@believe722To*

[@jonathanpabon4477]

I'm not gonna lie I'm an atheist and when I got high for the very first time (legally of course) I finally understood why ancient people believed in religion and took hallucinogenic drugs to speak with the gods. Because if I didn't know any better I would consider my experience not one of being high, but one of religous and spiritual awakening. Feeling things that I've never felt before under normal circumstances. So yeah it took me getting high to understand that if you're religious and get high you will see it as a religious and spiritual experience when in fact it's just your body and brain tripping out on drugs.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@jonathanpabon4477]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Bruh this literally does nothing. It might be powerful to you because you believe in it, but for everyone else you're just speaking nonsense. Literally Christianity breaks down if I prove to you that Jesus wasn't the only one in history who rose from the dead and as a god after he died. It was very common back in the day for powerful leaders and important figures to be humans and die then later become gods. Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar are a few who are humans and became gods after their death. Every single Egyptian Pharo was considered a living god. If you want to talk about humans dying and rising from the dead well Jesus isn't the only one in religion. The Egyptian god Osiris is believed to be an Egyptian human who lived 5,500-3,100 BCE who died and rose from the dead as a god. Dumuzid was a king of Bad-tibira (modern day Iraq) who basically had to spend half a year in the underworld and then coming back. Basically he would die and come back to life. In Greek mythology we have Adonis who was the human lover of the goddess Aphrodite who was killed by a wild boar and then Zeus brought Adonis back to life and gave him immortality. Attis was also a Greek human who died by killing himself and resurrected and became the god. Memnon, Alcmene, Heracles, and Melicertes all had died and risen from the dead. Jesus literally isn't the only one. Was he real yes Jesus definitely lived and died. We have proof of ancient historians describing Jesus as a teacher who pissed off the religious Jews for his beliefs. But he didn't come back to life rising from the dead. The Bible isn't 100% accurate there are parts that are true and historically accurate and there are parts that are completely false and there are parts in where it sounds as if the people writing it were high on drugs when they wrote it. You literally have to look and search outside of the Bible in order to prove and confirm that those events actually occurred and it wasn't all made up.

[@jonathanpabon4477]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Bruh if I can prove to you that Jesus never rose from the dead and everything was made up and that in other cultures there are humans who died and rose from the dead just like Jesus as well, would you stop believing in your religion? Because you saying all that doesn't change anything. It might be powerful to you because you believe in it, but it's literally nonsense for everyone else who doesn't.

[@jonathanpabon4477]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 First of all do you even know God's true original name and where it originated from or even Jesus' original name and why it was changed? If you can answer that and be genuine about it without spilling any religious nonsense then I will take you seriously. There I gave you some homework to look up about your own religion that you probably didn't even know or considered to even find out.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@jonathanpabon4477 God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.

[@redplumptomato]

The last question of the debate was one of the best questions asked.. Well done!

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@redplumptomato]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 drivel.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@redplumptomato People underestimate hell, it is bad because it is separation from God. In a vision I was shown a person who claimed to be Christian but started fornication (premarital sex), He died relatively young and went to hell forever (1 Cor 6:9). God’s holiness means He will not coexist with sinners forever therefore Repent (Luke 13:3) and have a relationship with Jesus.

[@redplumptomato]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 drivel

[@TylerHartgrove]

It seems Sam Harris got the raw end of this debate.

[@AsifKhan-hf9zy]

he probably threw himself off a stage after he watched this.

[@iymspartacus7089]

Sam hasn’t been doing his own reputation any favors lately either. Poor guy!

[@nicholaskoenig3106]

Haha!! Indeed.

[@fredrikfjeld1575]

@@iymspartacus7089 Well, he hasn't tried to ruin his reputation as much as Peterson, Rogan, Crowder and the likes. Almost mentioned Shapiro, but he never had much repuitation to begin with

[@jessereichbach588]

@@fredrikfjeld1575 So it's all about politics eh?

[@kellys923]

I wish all debates could go just like this one. I’m only half way through, but so far the back and forth is great. Doing it this way, each person has a chance to rebuttal each thing without some saying a gamut of things and then only have time to have an answer for a couple of questions and not having the time to answer the other 20 questions that one person has spit out to try a sway that one side. At the end of the day, one person asks a question and the other has there answer. Then the person that just answered the question now throws out there question for the other to answer, as a result way more questions get addressed 👍👍

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@CaucasianLopez]

You have no idea the history of your religion do you.​@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@joeythegoof5410]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363hell sounds fun

[@brnm973]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 And Superman shoots lasers from his eyes, thats way cooler

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@CaucasianLopez Peole do wrong things in the name of Christianity and they will be held accountable THE CHURCH IS FILLED WITH HYPOCRITES. it’s true the church is filled with Hypocrites; they are pretenders, not genuine Christians. The Bible speaks often of false converts sitting alongside those who are genuine in their faith (goats among the sheep, tares among the wheat, bad fish among the good fish, etc.), and assures us that God will sort them out on Judgment Day. Why let the pretenders keep you out of Heaven?

[@oreokush5393]

I saw Cheshire cat on the ceiling on LSD lol

[@Mr.TeETH78]

Talking in circles is what Jordan Peterson does. He starts from the supposition that he is right and you are wrong. There’s no debating with a closed mind.

[@booboo4963]

Jordan Peterson is an evasive blowhard and he knows it. I have to give home credit though… I’ve seen him be asked about his personal relationship to faith/religion/god dozens and dozens of times and every time without fail, he manages to give a completely new 2 thousand word nonsensical freshman psychology student lit on high concentrate THC dabs kind of answer. It’s truly a unique and covetous talent he’s developed. And his simpleton fans who just want a daddy that will send them to their room because they’ve been bad, buy it hook line and sinker.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@MobiusVideo]

You should go easy on the noise reduction for the audio because at the moment it’s too aggressive and it sounds like there is something wrong with the audio the way it keeps ducking in and out.

[@awkwardcapgun6131]

Idk if you heard the original audio debate back in 2018, but this is actually a HUGE improvement. Audio was trash, super quiet and still unbalanced.

[@MobiusVideo]

@@awkwardcapgun6131 Sure, I’m not disputing that. But the fact remains that there are now many dead silent sections between the talking which is unnatural and unsettling. No noise is nearly as bad as too much noise. It’s really not that hard to get right. I’ve done this sort of thing a lot.

[@stevenson720]

I'm glad you said the original was trash, I was annoyed about this audio until I heard that. Sound guy had an off night I guess.

[@Xechor]

Definitely could use some adjustment on the compression, but I'm glad it's at least improved now.

[@Maelthorn1337]

​@@MobiusVideo I've always found it amusing how the majority of live recorded events like these tend to have poor audio production. This is far from the worst, but as a hobbyist broadcaster I feel I could set up and run the majority of these events way better and I'm no where near being an audio engineer.

[@calvitojuanito]

that portion where you were discussing societies,chess, and computers was incredible. Explaining humans and our behavior in such an understandable way

[@raven09r1]

Not really. Because the chess rules are already established. Matt cannot come to that conclusion with life, because we have nothing giving us rules. He’s still wrong

[@psicosiluetas]

God reveals the laws that make human existence worthwile and purposeful, which aligns with the truth@@raven09r1

[@2fast2block]

@@raven09r1 Matt can't even get around basic science. The 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, energy can only change forms, energy creation/destruction can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.

[@wendellkelsey356]

@@raven09r1 We have a full set of rules that we learn from members of our tribes and families plus we have inherited the neurobiological capacity or aptititude to incorporate all this cultural info and then once grown we can extrapolate the same value judgement system onto previously unkown problems that we face. These rules are what has given us the best shot at being here alive now. possibly/hopefully have childre and . And provide the next generation with the tools they need to keep it going. These rules, traditions, folkways, periodic social activities: We could do Apollo 11 because 2 milllion years ago or whenever a handful of protohumans formed and alliance that defeated an adversary. Even it the adversary was just hunger. The individuals who were not building a culture are extinct.

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@2fast2blockYou keep copying and pasting this everywhere. It seems you don't understand what you're pasting.

[@ikey1119]

They need to lower the gain to let a little more background noice bleed in between them pausing and talking… it would help a lot with such a huge drop off. It’s sounds like their talking through walkie talkies…😂😂😂

[@jamesepperson5940]

This is still one of the best conversations to ever take place. Thank you so much and please do a rematch. Your fans demand it

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@MichaelAronson]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 You need therapy.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

​@@MichaelAronson Michael trust me man im normal, Trust me Jesus is God and everything the Bible (KJV) says is true, the best thing yiu can do in your entire life is to get right with God today

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Therapy doesn't mean someone isn't normal. Therapy helps people who experience nonstop delusions.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@MichaelAronson Im mot delusional man Everyone’s got struggles of some kind, whether it be financial, health related or sinful addictions that you know is bad but can’t stop it. Ask for Jesus to intervene and help. God will help you overcome, thus giving you a personal encounter, and proving He exists to you. I have received a physical healing mir-acle; Jesus is waiting for you to humble yourself and ask (ask because God listens).

[@AlexanderBrusilovsky]

Jordan is simply afraid not to believe in God. While Matt is not afraid to disbelive.

[@gregarioussolitudinist5695]

It is not necessary to disbelieve something that does not exist. Nor is it important to hold a seance to prove it. Nor a polite debate. Why is it so important to devote a lifetime to deny something that you claim is not real? It makes his argument seem really silly.

[@AlexanderBrusilovsky]

@@gregarioussolitudinist5695 I like it. You're addressing two aspects here: 1. Ensuring the nonexistence of "something." 2. Questioning the value of spending a lifetime debating such matters. Stating definitively that "something" doesn't exist isn't wise; it often involves a psychological loop of arguing the unprovable. Many fall victim to lifelong debates due to the magnitude and history of the subject, and Jordan is no exception. He struggles to theorize a singular conclusion, being human and susceptible to confusion, especially when navigating personal suffering rooted in his scientific attempt to challenge belief systems.

[@nikolabajic4352]

You'd waste both of their time with this comment and you don't even have the humility to realise that

[@AlexanderBrusilovsky]

@@nikolabajic4352 Excuse me, but who appointed you the authority on what these two represent? Lol. The last thing they require is a Karen crusading in their favor. Shame. 💥😆😆😆😆🙉🙉🙉🙈🙈🙈

[@TorianTammas]

Peterson knows how much he sells to Christians as tgey maje up the largest part of buyers of his books and viewership. It is a simple cost benefit evaluation.

[@lifesabitchnthnudie]

Bruh Matt DESTROYED Jordan! Nuff said

[@zbabyg6998]

This was less a debate of whether or not their is a God or not, it just became why you should believe and why it doesn't matter if you believe or not.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@Jazzmasterman32]

The lack of static in the audio is distracting.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@jackjones2381]

I really like listening to such a good debate, leaving out what one thinks what right or wrong the talent of the debate is fantastic 👍

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@f_c_k_o_f_f]

Matt keeps getting better at this. His communication skills are off the charts.

[@paulthomas4917]

Yes matt is getting better, but Jordan is the teacher and matt is the fat kid in the class who is amusing without substance. I guess Jordan is the skeptic and matt is an atheist with a following of atheists, Jordan has a following of those from both sides, but importantly, aren't seeking confirmation bias. I do hope matt gets better as his mentor harris seems to have gone the way of nietzsche and I'm not sure harris has a mother to calm him.

[@Aurealeus]

@@paulthomas4917 Silly !

[@paulthomas4917]

@@Aurealeus No really matt is getting better I know what you mean by silly though, but that is just matts expresion, in another life he would have been a clown or maybe a ventriloquist dummy,

[@Aurealeus]

@@paulthomas4917 No, you don't know what I mean. I meant your comment is silly.

[@mathman43]

@@Aurealeus Dillahunty is a victim of weak/absent father syndrome. It's a familiar motif to many atheists.

[@mythoughtsonreligion7763]

Both had there ooints in this discussioj, its just that this really dives deep into religious matters! Common sense to me is the oroboem with many. Ive found that oeople dont understand simplicity but will qccept something that is complicated when it diesnt have to! So ky view in this video is that it goew way betond my interest but is very interesting and donenjoy these and makes me more knowledgeable when conversing with others in a simplistic manner. Well done! What say you ?

[@MichaelAronson]

"Common sense" doesn't actually mean anything. It just means whatever anyone wants it to mean at any given time.

[@Chinnnnuz]

Ive only just discovered this matt dillahunty. I like his very careful use of words.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

[@Chinnnnuz]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Utter nonsense. You need Christopher Hitchens.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@Chinnnnuz I don't listen to dead people only alive Ones, Jesus speaks to me through the Holy Spirit DO YOU FOLLOW THE DEAD OR THE IVING? Would you ask a car mechanic advice for a health issue? Likewise, why are you listening to dead people on advice on life? Jesus not only died but rose from the dead claiming victory over death. So when Jesus speaks to you through His servants you ought to listen.

[@stephenfreeman4256]

I wish I was a student in Dr. Peterson's class when he taught at university. For every test question I would reply with "well its really really really hard to explain" or "what do you mean by that?" He would have to pass me because he does this every time he gets asked a straight forward questions in a debate. Dr. Peterson; master of equivocation.

[@tomy8339]

You have to understand the context of that question in relation to the metaphorical substrate of critical analysis. 😅

[@ghost79ish]

Not really. A debate is a much different format than a test. Much of what goes into a good debate includes defining of terms and clarifications for the people of participating in the debate and for the audience. Yeah, this can be a bit tedious, but it's essential for a quality conversation like this, especially when the two people debating are coming from very different perspectives and trying to find some common ground to work from.

[@RyanGetLow]

He's insufferable. He just just likes to hear himself talk. He rambles and panders to the point of boredom. I think he blacks out when he talks, and only comes to when he's run out of words and/or forgets what he's even talking about. Either way, he's completely expecting you to be so amazed with what he thinks is a profound and well thought out response. He's too used to preaching to college kids in a classroom. It's good to see him get his foot put in his mouth.

[@404errorpagenotfound.6]

​@@RyanGetLowiPad baby, your a joke.

[@404errorpagenotfound.6]

​@@RyanGetLowiPad baby?

[@franzseidel7891]

Great debate. I hope Jordan and Matt do it again.

[@drwzer]

Matt has already said that Peterson, after initially agreeing to another talk, he now refuses to do it on advice of his manager. Apparently the manager thought Matt was too effective at debunking Jordan’s arguments.

[@bauist]

It confirms that Peterson is a narcissist. Not sure what’s so ‘great’ about a whiny theist who won’t admit it trying to keep up with a well informed humble nuanced gentleman. JP had his 15 min of fame - now he’s just a tired apologist like hundreds of others. He likes to fancify his speech by using what Dan Dennett called ‘deepity.’

[@brownsterring9259]

I still prefer the 403 / whatever debates where everyone talks over each other before rage quitting

[@FireMuscle11]

Can you do Sam Mat and Jordan 😂😂😂

[@ayotundeayoko5861]

Sir, with due respect, I am damn sure Mr. Peterson won't want to do another debate with Matt.

[@reggaefromzion]

Saying that someone believes something is not equivalent to the proposition being true. When Dillahunty says that we care for well-being because we come from ancestry that does, his statement is a meta proposition about the proposition "we should care about well-being". From the fact that people think this way, we cannot derive that people should do so. We can agree about all facts, but oughts are non - sequiturs to them. If we are having moral propositions you need an arbitrary set of moral axioms. Those constitute your metaphysics

[@emreeren13]

Wow, what a discussion! I take my metaphorical hat off to you!

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@emreeren13]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Nah man, I like to please my wife everyday. Why do you mind? And everything you just said is possible without God. Please don't try to change my mind, I feel uncomfortable.

[@james-cz4xx]

I quit smoking with no religious/mystical experience or drugs of any kind. You get beyond the first three days and don't hang around others that smoke and you're good.

[@fgoindarkg]

My experience exactly. Peterson is a self deluded fool. If it's in a book he believes it.

[@caiofernando]

Yes, that argument is laughable.

[@ActionGamerAaron]

What were you smoking that's not a drug? You seem very confused about what was even discussed in the debate.

[@james-cz4xx]

@@ActionGamerAaron you may want to ratchet the part they went over about quitting smoking. It was said that you cannot do it without religion or drugs. I'm evidence to the contrary.

[@Billy-id9kb]

This is what you got from this debate?? Good luck in life and beyond.

[@emilydiffenderffer6191]

Matt knew it was over when he said metaphorical substrate

[@wesley3300]

Lol that phrase alone really gives up the whole game

[@jonathanmunyi5549]

He said "metaphysical substrate", he was trying to get to the heart of Matt's axioms, because Matt was making self evident claims that were not self evident in a philosophical sense. A great example is his first claim, that death is preferable over life, this is not self evident. Think of samurai code or Aztec and Mayan sacrifice....the claim that death is preferable over life is not a universal self-evident axiom to build any moral architecture on....Matt is happily playing 2d checkers while Jordan is wrestling with a 4 dimensional chess board. It's not an easy thing.

[@williamhorn363]

@@jonathanmunyi5549 It is self-evident to prefer life over death because we are all born with the instinct to survive. The objective is to avoid death. If you posit that death is preferable to life, then there is no life in question. It's not a matter of implicit "value". I do not wish to live because I think I have some divinely imposed value upon me, I do so because I was born and living creatures have an impulse to survive and thrive as much as possible to continue reproducing and keep the cycle going, so to speak. Furthermore, you are flat out agreeing with Matt in your final statement. To quote you: "the claim that death is preferable over life is not a universal self-evident axiom to build any moral architecture on" - Yeah, this is exactly what Matt said. Nowhere in this debate did Matt say "death is preferable over life" was a self-evident universal axiom. He advocated the opposite. If what you mean is that it is not self-evidence to universally rule out this axiom, then please refer to the beginning of my comment.

[@jonathanmunyi5549]

@@williamhorn363 Thanks for your reply. What I was saying is that it is not a universally self evident truth that life is better than death, and since you agree with me that this is not a universal self-evident truth then all reasoning from this as a principle is shaky. Something cannot be true most of the times or true yet untrue in the same sense. Matt saying we can create a self-improving morality, by simply defining rules for life and the goal of life, is not as trivial as he would lead the audience to believe. The great thing about the physical world is how well designed it is, infinite forms of being can be expressed based on finite laws. In metaphysics, philosophers try and reason out or discover the finite laws on which we can base everything including being, knowing, beauty, goodness etc. Matt suggests that we can swap out our axioms on the fly as our knowledge of things improve and that is never going to work because everything else that has been reasoned from a faulty axiom will be trash as well. So we constantly have to start from scratch every time we discover a faulty axiom.

[@williamhorn363]

@@jonathanmunyi5549 I appreciate your response as well. With all due respect, I disagree with all of these points. I'll try to address all my counterpoints: "since you agree with me that this is not a universal self-evident truth then all reasoning from this as a principle is shaky" I agree that the axiom is "shaky", but that does not follow that the principle is faulty. The purpose of this foundation of logic is to filter out the axioms from which no constructive progress is made toward a thriving society. The fact that we can agree that this is a dud axiom, is proving the efficacy of the principle. We can now throw it away and start from a stronger premise. "Matt is saying we can create a self-improving morality, by simply defining rules for life and the goal of life, is not as trivial as he would lead the audience to believe" I agree. This is not a trivial task, but it is one that is worth the effort. As such, it should be adaptable, otherwise we would still be living the barbaric lifestyle of our ancestors. "Matt suggests that we can swap out our axioms on the fly as our knowledge of things improve and that is never going to work because everything else that has been reasoned from a faulty axiom will be trash as well" Firstly, that depends on the intensity of the change you're making to the axiom. If you start from "stabbing people is bad" and you realize this isn't specific enough, so you generalize it to "killing people is bad", then some (if not all) moral reasoning derived from the initial axiom still remains a subset of the new axiom. As time goes on, the adjustments you make to your initial axiom(s) should get asymptotically smaller. Secondly, if a new axiom should take the place of the old one and it completely uproots the moral foundation of a society - trashing everything it once knew - why is this a bad thing? Would it be a slow and controversial transition? Sure. But a bad one at that? Of course not. If tomorrow we find a solution to free infinite energy, that would surely change the world and cause all sorts of controversy and uproar, but ultimately it would push us as a society much further along. We have seen this time and time again throughout history, both technologically and ethically speaking. This truth emerges from nature, not from humans.

[@wongyeng88]

Very good discussion... so the question is whether a higher good exists or a gold benchmark exists or are these unneccessary to live a good life or to have the fortitude to overcome the severe traumas of life ? The other problem arises is when the issue of God is thrown about superficially for argument sake... what about the positive effects and values He promotes ? Can the same be attained without Him ?

[@MichaelAronson]

Since there is no "him" existing to begin with, yes, everyone can experience everything without him.

[@DavidDacaro]

at ~15:48, at a point of clarification of the term "supernatural", Matt offers up, "There's the natural world", to which Jordan seems to agree on some level as to what that means, and that becomes the class against which exclusion from suggests a base class for the supernatural. The scope of what is natural becomes really unclear when considering the observer problem(s), hence the lines between supernatural and natural gets...complicated.

[@MichaelAronson]

It's not complicated. Natural things exist. Supernatural things don't.

[@DavidDacaro]

@@MichaelAronsonOn the surface, I could easily find agreement with that statement. But, digging a little deeper, I find myself in the weeds again. Can you define what is natural in the context that you are using it here, as well as the term exist? I think there's far too little consent to the meaning of those terms for me to feel comfortable just agreeing readily.

[@MichaelAronson]

@@DavidDacaro The natural world is regarded as that which can be observed and detected not only by the senses but by equipment capable of detecting or measuring phenomena. We can't detect or measure supernatural things because they don't exist.

[@DavidDacaro]

@@MichaelAronson👍

[@kevink2020]

This is the conversation I didn't know I needed tonight!

[@ryankrohn6469]

I saw this debate a couple years ago. Great talk!

[@bigcountrymountainman9740]

I would love to see this debate again considering now that Jordan Peterson believes what scripture says and believes that Jesus of Nazareth actually died on a cross and believe the accounts of the two Roman guards, the Centurion and the accounts of the scribes of Pontius Pilate Joseph of Arimathea. I think he would challenge Dillahunty much more on his views of the scriptures.

[@autopilot3176]

​@@bigcountrymountainman9740 No need for debate. "Jesus" never existed 100%. Jesus is just a metaphor for the Sun in the sky, used as an aspiring mental principle for moral teachings, used by 2500+ religions before "Christianity". - The "cross" ("christ") is just the thing you stick into the ground in front of a little hole you look through, when you measure the size of the Sun, when it rises in the morning. December 22nd-25th is when the Sun is smallest and furthest from Earth on the elliptic, hence "died on the cross for 3 days". Then, the Sun "resurrects" on the 25th (Christmas) and starts coming back towards the Earth (Sun's gravity pulls Earth back)... and people celebrated this for thousands of years. They were afraid the Sun will abandon them and leave them to starve to death or die of cold. - They didn't know about gravity. They thought that Sun which always shines is a place where immortal "gods" live. They prayed to the Sun, for hundreds of thousands of years, trying to make contact. They didn't know what "star" is. They just wanted immortal life.

[@user-ch4ex3yy4l]

@@bigcountrymountainman9740 Does JP believe in the ressurection of Christ? If so, please give me a link.

[@benjaminnapoli1834]

​@@user-ch4ex3yy4lyeah I doubt he admitted that. JP purposely stays vague on controversial topics that don't have evidence or clear evidence for that he obviously believes. Usually so he can say no i didn't if more data comes out on the topic.

[@jamescboyd]

My brain can’t handle the sharp cuts to silence and focus on the content at the same time. I’m out.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@ghul10]

so true at 11:00, i was a smoker and after just messing around with psilocybin for the first time i haven't even thought about smoking again (this is like 5 years ago now)

[@jonathanstrouse4161]

This is awesome. This kind of civil arguments and putting it on the table is so civil and gentlemen like is amazing

[@mudkipfan2420]

Help me give the exact timestamp where JP actually answers the questions where it matters without going around for 30minutes

[@MisterG2323]

Good luck!

[@Siwena]

How do you actually define an answer, or a question, the young men in south Asian prehistoric society had different answer for what a question is , I see that as an immutable fact don’t you agree? J.P., probably

[@molybdenum1275]

He always pulls this crap. It's a debate technique called the "Gish Gallop".

[@alessiobettega6760]

Here is the complete list:

[@LoadPuller]

The first audience question shows that JP can't imagine reality beyond his beliefs. MD will re-evaluate his position based on any new information.

[@teacherlion]

I had an experience when I was younger that made me believe that there is in fact a spirit world, or non-physical entities that exist outside of the physical dimension if you prefer. I was told by one of these entities that they had guided me to a meditation center. At first I wasn't sure if the experience was just in my mind or not. It was quite powerful when they connected with me. However, a few weeks later, one of the monks at the meditation center asked me if I was aware that I had been guided to the center. I had told no one about the experience. So there was an outside validation of the inner experience I had. Not proof that a scientist would accept of course but for me it was proof enough. I was an athiest before that.

[@MichaelAronson]

You were never an atheist. You were just open to religion.

[@Im-not-alone-Im-full-of-myself]

you need to question more spirituality bs

[@teacherlion]

@@Im-not-alone-Im-full-of-myself I've had a lot of experiences. They are not beliefs that I was told. Maybe you need to question them less and experience more. Are you closed down to any possiblities?

[@MichaelAronson]

@@teacherlion You're not saying anything.

[@Im-not-alone-Im-full-of-myself]

@@teacherlion I have done both things, so... like I experienced both sides. and know flaws of both sides, they both are not perfect, but religions/spirituality seem to do harm than good because they don't go for scientific evidence.

[@McShag420]

I was looking for a video of Kermit the frog reading the dictionary in a stream of consciousness that never reaches it's conclusion and I was not disappointed.

[@CaptainOnePocket]

Best comment! That's great.

[@the-ambivalent-orthographer]

...the best part is the waving hands while he ribbits ...so captivating.

[@phutureproof]

cmon bro you can do better than name calling, cant you?

[@kcfreeman3021]

Well, I can't. Fuck jp and the shoulders his dumb head rode in on.

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@phutureproofKermit the Peterson doesn't deserve better.

[@NovasYouTubeName]

“It’s like REALLY mysterious” 😂😂❤❤

[@mr.t993]

NO, you dont get it! Its like *REALLY* mysterious

[@julietannerino446]

And this guy is a professor? How embarrassing...😆@@mr.t993

[@kylekitzman]

@@julietannerino446 I don't think there's any loss of credibility when he emphasized the word 'really'. While watching the interview, it was evident that his vocabulary skills are not a problem. However, my question is, why are you using one moment to define his entire profession? Are you feeling insecure about something?

[@davidhemsworth4098]

The legal definition of grievous bodily harm is 'really serious injury'. That's a definition derived from a Lord Chancellor of the UK who was also a prosecutor at Nuremberg. Sometimes 'really' is the only appropriate adjective. And sometimes it's just pithy.

[@MichaelAronson]

​@@kylekitzman"his vocabulary skills are not a problem" Obfuscation of meaning is most certainly a problem.

[@TonyVD]

IQ dropped after he assumed people that have morals lie that they dont believe in a God. Cause he thinks you can't have morals without the belief of a God. And it dropped further the more he continued talking.

[@Bobdrumbro]

Sound guy had the gate setting set for snare bottom. If you know you

[@RandolfRichardson]

Thanks for improving the audio on this one. It was a great conversation.

[@NikolajHoelgaard]

A little hard cutoff on sentences sometimes. But better than usual 😁

[@fbbez]

One of my favorite debates. It was fun to listen to again.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@campbellsmith3711]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363but is sexually lusting or lieing actually sinful

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@campbellsmith3711 Yes sin separates you from God because God is Holy So repent and believe the Gospel, ask Jesus to help you with your struggles

[@campbellsmith3711]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 why don’t you ask Jesus for me see if he replies 😂 once you get a response will join big bro

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@campbellsmith3711 Jesus already told us in His word 1 Corinthians 6:9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators (Sex before marriage), nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” If you are on the list please Repent & Believe in Jesus to be forgiven your sins

[@jonnyrode]

I think the first question 1:00:55 brings us back on topic to talk about God. The question is, basically, would God exist if human consciousness is removed. I interrupted the answer from Jordan to be, reality and God would disappear (to some degree). Would that mean that God isn't conscious? That God only exists in our human minds? This begs the question, how could God have created the world, then us if our consciousness creates the world? I suspect he thinks God is a construct of the human mind.