Part One: Stockton Rush: Inventor of the Deathsub | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

[@IanOPadrick]

I think what it is is he believed in the great man theory school of thought. He falsely believed that James Cameron had personally designed the sub, he believed that single individual amateurs had done things, and therefore believed he could do it. He thinks Elon Musk designed the rockets, not just hired some engineers who actually design the rockets and then took credit for it

[@templarw20]

As soon as I saw the quote about him thinking prioritizing passenger safety was bad, I thought “pretty sure that qualifies as gross negligence.”

[@shmehfleh3115]

The fine folk over at Well There's Your Problem Podcast did an episode on the Kursk sinking wherein they touch on the hazards of deep-sea diving, and the horrible ways we found out about those hazards. I highly recommend it.

[@outistynnanyt5153]

Glad theres so much fan crossover with WTYP

[@FTZPLTC]

"Buying a kit and presenting it as something you've made" describes pretty much every NFT project so I'm gonna say yes.

[@justcommenting4981]

I'm sorry but kits count. Baking from pre made ingredients counts.

[@FTZPLTC]

@@justcommenting4981 - Count as what? Like, if we're talking about a product that you can consume, sure, I'm not going to pretend that an object loses utility because you made it from some pre-made elements. Maybe the wording would be better as "something you've invented" rather than "something you've made". Like, if I put together an Ikea cabinet, I indisputably *made* that cabinet... but I'm not a carpenter at that point. My expertise in creating a cabinet from scratch is just, like, nothing, at all. No one should trust me or ask me for advice on carpentry, and I definitely shouldn't offer people assurances based on it.

[@justcommenting4981]

@@FTZPLTC Ok fair enough. I concede the Ikea argument.

[@suddenllybah]

​@FTZPLTC At most. it could be a stepping stone to you getting deeper into the business, which isn't nothing, but it isn't what SR said it was.

[@FlameDarkfire]

4:35 the answer is always yes.

[@MrPooleish]

I think the "Supersoaker Full of Piss" guy is making a lot of sense, especially about Death Sub, The Sub That Eats

[@dopecat15]

I heard Michael Jackson used to do the Supersoaker piss thing.

[@MrPooleish]

@dopecat_truecrime there are very few things you could tell me "Michael Jackson used to do" that I wouldn't believe.

[@majuuorthrus3340]

The way I feel about Stockton Rush is fairly simple: rich a-holes behave like this all the time and it gets people killed all the time, and at least this time the guy responsible was the guy who died and not some innocent employee or member of the public.

[@mintman325]

I had the good fortune of seeing Bob Ballard speak as a life long Titanic enthusiast. I must say hearing him speak changed my whole perspective.

[@grantlauzon5237]

The only good thing about this is that the guy died along with the people he put in danger. He didn’t learn his lesson in any meaningful way but he was punished.

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

Think about it this way: he can't hurt anyone else anymore.

[@rankinstudio]

The only reality show that needs to happen is a version of alone where flat earthers look for the edge of the world.

[@cryptbeast3222]

I would actually watch tv again for that show alone.

[@justcommenting4981]

Ahahahahahaaaaaaa

[@rabbit3212010]

​@@cryptbeast3222watching it on TV is just a step too far for me

[@CassandraEverett-u2b]

It was cool hearing Bob Ballard mentioned! I grew up in Old Lyme, CT in the 90s, and we did a lot of units on Ballard's work in elementary school. He came to speak at our school once, and I remember him being cool. I don't know anything about him beyond his explorations and finds, so it's a relief to hear him mentioned in a BtB video in a good way!

[@exodiatheforbiddenone186]

Bob Ballard is badass as fuck frrr. Long may he live

[@MultiMal3]

Thought I'd throw this one out: Ballard got the secret contract for the nuke subs, but it wasn't to find them - the Navy already knew where they were. The contract was to go check the wreck sites, see if anybody (read: the Soviets) had been trying to salvage them and check that all the nuke stuff onboard was still safely locked in their cages.

[@BigHenFor]

It's the Chinese that has been salvaging war graves.

[@Spencerdoken]

Acheron Project is an incredible name for a deep-sea engineering company that unleashes a horrible eldritch abomination from below the waves.

[@michaelwestmoreland2530]

Some of us ABSOLUTELY want to hear Warhammer 40k jokes.

[@alejandrorivas4585]

Have you seen the like, 3 hour lore video from RE?

[@rothloaf1980]

Listened to this yesterday. All the billionaire jokes were great. Stockton Rush is totally a GD Ayn Rand character's name. And F Ayn Rand.

[@johnbainbridge9034]

There simply has to be a wealth of Bioshock jokes in there somewhere.

[@mychannelafc]

We need more deep dives into libertarians/libertarianism. Cuz this no regulations guy just screams it. Even last week's episode on AI/Techbros.

[@gepisar]

need to put more libertarian billionaire bros on shabby submersible deep dives ....

[@Kinzokugia]

The Titan was a Submersible, basically a tiny submarine that needs a bigger ship to operate from. The Red October is a Submarine, a ship that can submerge and surface and travel on its own.

[@ThePopopotatoes]

Bohemian grove guys are my personal nightmare blunt rotation

[@JohnnyWishbone85]

32:00 -- "Commercial Pilot" and "Airline Transport Pilot" are specific terms for specific grades of pilot license. "Commercial Pilot" is a level of training where you're qualified to charge people money for flying-related things and *probably* not kill anyone. It's a couple hundred hours of training. "Airline Transport Pilot" is what you're required to have in order to fly a scheduled airline service, and it's WAAAAAY more training. So having a "Commercial" license at 18 and an ATP at 19 is pretty consistent. It also tells us how rich his family is, because in order to get an ATP at 19, flight training had to be basically **all he did** for at least a year. And it costs several hundred dollars per flight hour for training. His family threw a few hundred thousand dollars at him getting this thing at such a young age.

[@raycearcher5794]

I mean James Cameron was an amateur, but I'm pretty sure his huge team of engineers weren't.

[@StardustontheWind]

From some interviews it also seems he does know something of the details of how his submarines work. Like, is he and expert? No. But he hired a bunch of them, he listens to them, and he can explain the basics of issues or details about the subs he’s been in. Which is pretty cool. But yeah, James Cameron didn’t build his sub in a garage, he hired a bunch of people to design a brilliant piece of engineering capable of reaching the farthest known point of the ocean. Tells a lot that Rush did not know how the Challenger got built

[@OsirisLord]

At this point James Cameron is a full time expert deep sea explorer who makes movies as a hobby.

[@MrGksarathy]

​@@OsirisLordDidn't he initially start deep sea exploration to get inspiration for movie sets or something?

[@charleycrissman]

One vehicle that escaped mention here is the DSV Limiting Factor, finished in 2018. That was commissioned by a private equity billionare explorer and was rated for infinite depth (i.e. beyond the max depth of the ocean). It's made made tens of trips to the Challenger Deep.

[@OddLeah]

And it does actual scientific research. Designed for function and safety, yet still fits two people very comfortably.

[@justcommenting4981]

Ok, but what controller does it use, xbox or Logitech? Don't even say PlayStation because that is fuckin goofy.

[@simonfea2]

​@@justcommenting4981Does Lenovo make a controller?

[@glarynth]

Gravis Gamepad, or I'm not goin'

[@cf453]

Joystick from the Atari 2600 or nothing.

[@waywardscythe3358]

"commercial pilot" is a regulated and defined term with a different license level from private pilot. it's not easy to get, but it is much easier when your family can pay the 20-30k in flight hours and instructor time. if he built the kit plane in 4-5 years while doing school by himself that would be fucking insane. depending on the plane there is a great deal of fabrication involved

[@silaskuemmerle2505]

It was apparently an ultralight according to his college so that makes it significantly less impressive

[@0sm1um76]

@@silaskuemmerle2505 Not a stockton rush fan but as an engineering grad student, building any sort of functional aircraft is still a lot more demanding than most undergrad do for their thesis. I guarantee a ton of people in his graduating class did way lamer stuff.

[@silaskuemmerle2505]

@@0sm1um76 as an aircraft mechanic, building an ultralight from a kit is not exactly difficult. Building a full sized experimental from plans would be impressive but an ultralight would probably take about a month depending on the tools he had available

[@entr0pix]

so my understanding is that stockton was given a lego kit for his 5th birthday and made that everyone elses problem for the next 56 years.

[@jackmaney4276]

"Should we laugh when a bunch of billionaires die in an easily predictable accident?" Yes, obviously.

[@matthewgagnon9426]

He died from his own idiot mistakes too. Anti-regulations, anti-safety and oh look the sub that broke regulations and had poor safety standards imploded.

[@MichelleHell]

"Would they laugh at you for being dumb and poor?". Yes, obviously.

[@jackmaney4276]

@@MichelleHell Pink mist can't laugh. ^_^

[@Aryasvitkona]

The only person on that sub who deserves ANY sympathy is the kid. And he doesn't deserve much. The others are all idiots and deserve being laughed at.

[@bogdiworksV2]

@mitchell in other words, capitalism.

[@tabbyc7143]

Stockton building his own plane from a kit for his thesis brings to mind the homebuilt aircraft that got John Denver killed

[@thindigital]

Just found you guys I really enjoyed the episode. I subbed.

[@brianmckee2267]

Subbed. Hah

[@dziban303]

Blind Man's Bluff is an outstanding book, anyone even vaguely interested in submarines should read it. Sherry Sontag and Chris Drew authored

[@hopegallows1392]

I laugh about him getting to meet an astronaut because he liked space, but when I was 8 I met a professional diver who had been to the titanic and was a titanic nut.

[@B-Nice]

Can we really blame Stockton Rush for firing his employee who was raising safety concerns and ultimately killing several people who overpaid to die?? 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@plantain.1739]

The Internet has laughed at people in way less aubsurd and preventable accidents. I think its fine to laugh about a bunch of rich people becoming marinara sauce in a reclaimed fiberglass can.

[@misterjoshua5720]

29:04 I am furious he didn't make his 40k reference. Was he going to make it about Erebus being the justifiable whipping boy? We will never know.

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

they get their eventaully

[@leowilliamson1573]

From what I've heard, the big reason why whether the Titanic split was so controversial was because the company that made it didn't want the ship being depicted splitting in half because that implied poor workmanship, which is why James Cameron's version is one of if not the first to depict it snapping in half.

[@exodiatheforbiddenone186]

Update: the ocean ate another billionare. His name was Mike Lynch, who also was a real piece of work himself

[@melaustin3305]

I need the second part so immediately ...

[@thisistherevolt]

Robert "Nobody wants to hear my Warhammer 40k jokes" Me: 😢

[@omnomnomnath415]

When you want to be Captain Kirk but end up as Captain Crunch instead.

[@swimbutsu2927]

For the record, I do want to hear Robert's 40k jokes.

[@function0077]

I am an engineer who cares about the safety of others. The longer I listen the more glad I am that Stockton Rush turned himself into meat toothpaste.

[@kevintaylor791]

Looking forward to part 2. Storing carbon prepreg is a motherfucker. Imagine taking every rotten fence post in your neighborhood and using it to add an extra story to your house. That's just one of the endless layers of the dumbass onion of this story that's dehydrating me from tears of laughter.

[@ruperterskin2117]

Right on. Thanks for sharing.

[@coryshepherd2802]

I do! I want to hear the warhammer 40k jokes!

[@uncleodin]

I, for one, absolutely want to hear your Warhammer 40K jokes

[@Jakeurb8ty82]

I do like the 'up' elevator button tho. Functional eccentric vanity I can get behind.

[@marocat4749]

i only feel bad aout the young guy whowas pressured by his dad, else, no pity. And sub comfy`? there is a good interview of azealwith submariners, and boy that ar a diffrent reed of pople doing that as job.

[@dopecat15]

I wish I was on that sub, I'm tired.

[@thefinalsif]

For all that I don't like Rush, I've actually can't hate him like I can someone like Elon Musk. Rush at least appeared to believe in the subs and their safety despite everything. The first manned depth dive that the titan did (basically the "can this actually do this"), he drove the damn thing himself without anyone else on board. He wasn't building death subs and then sticking minimum wage workers on them to go risk their lives. He was taking them down himself, putting his own life on the line. I think Rush was an idiot, overconfident and should've been stopped, but I also respect him so much more than someone like Elon who constantly fucks over poor people to suit his whims. Like, I feel like I can't hate a believer that puts their own neck on the line the same way I can Elon. There's a clip of an ex-greenpeace turned oil shill guy who said something about round-up being so safe you could drink it, the interviewer responses "oh really, we have some right here" and the guy instantly flips and says "I'm not stupid" despite insisting it's safe. The way I see it, Elon is that guy. Rush would straight up drink the weed killer. And I respect the person who drinks the weed killer more, even if I think they're dumb as hell.

[@frumpycrust]

He straight up, said he wanted to use the submarines for deep-sea oil exploration , do you think CEOs are going to be piloting those submersibles, check yourself

[@mojo3398]

agreed. he was not an evil bastard, just a crazy nutter.

[@mattjk5299]

​​@@frumpycrust'm not sure what the relevance of that is at all. Of course he was looking to make money by providing a service to literally anyone regardless of morality and he did get his employee killed. But he risked his own life many times in a way many don't. That is the only "point" here. I'm not sure what needs to be "checked" here. Not being able to hate someone doesn't mean they're not a scumbag of one flavour or another. Could be a bigger one.

[@mattjk5299]

​@@mojo3398eh he was definitely a shitty guy, he got people killed, that much is inarguable, but it's rather different than some huge corporation letting 5-6 employees a year die in welding accidents at shipyards in order to save a few bucks. There's obviously a bit of a difference.

[@PMickeyDee]

You know, when this comment was left I would have been more apt to agree. However the more information has came out about how many people told him directly that he was gonna kill people & how far out of his way he went to avoid any sort of real testing of his submersible he went. The notch above Elon in my book is barely distinguishable.

[@vylbird8014]

If I were a billionaire with a love of submarines, I'd sell novelty kits for shallow water submerged buildings. Hotels, personal follies. Does your beachside mansion need an undersea dining room? Would you like to draw tourists to your pier with a special view? I'd by the one to go to. Pressure-rated and storm-worthy structures with a hint of luxury and obstruction-free viewing domes. Got some outstanding underwater beauty to admire? Drop my steel and glass prefab on that reef and impress your wealthy friends with a unique pad. And if you've got bottomless pockets and a fear that civilisation will collapse, well... I'm sure some special offer can be worked out for a proper lair.

[@davidblank420]

I find it ironic they were looking at Titanic wreckage just to end up a part of it

[@cjboyo]

Re: the ‘anti racist slaveholder’ thing. The best history teacher I ever had used to say there’s nothing as dangerous as a true believer. He probably GENUINELY believed the ideology of slavery being the natural order and that you could be a good kind person while owning slaves (think ‘oh its what’s best for them’ type stuff)

[@BenHyle]

I want to hear your 40k jokes! Tell your 40k jokes!

[@Adamskitheshirtless1]

for future reference: I desperately want to hear your warhammer 40,000 jokes

[@mjouwbuis]

His first name would be pronounced Dick, which fits nicely. I'd like to hear him referred to more often as "Dick Stockton", especially in title lines.

[@kaljaktun2012]

Robert, we absolutely want to hear you Warhammer 40,000 jokes. I, for one, would love to see you to collab with Adeptus Ridiculous!

[@ziggygunz2447]

Really disappointed they didn't take the low hanging fruit of "New Foam who dis??" at the end of the podcast lol

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

Regarding whether it's ethical/moral to laugh at billionaires who died in a predictable way: I'd say ethics and morals straight up don't apply to the situation. I mean, it's not like the billionaires who died cared about ethics and morals when they were alive, right? And they caused or contributed to far more than five or six deaths, guaranteed. So to laugh at amoral, ethics-dodging, greedy people who actively contribute to mass suffering and deaths? Yeah, if they didn't apply ethics and morality in their dealings, then ethics and morality shouldn't apply to our dealings with them. The only passenger I even remotely feel bad about is the kid who didn't even wanna go but was talked into it; and even then, it's only 'kinda', since he still lived a lavish lifestyle propped up by mass suffering and deaths. To sum up my take on treating billionaires with ethics: Don't bother trying to cause direct physical harm, but don't bother trying to help when they're in a bind. They wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire, so I won't lend them a crumb of effort. Never help billionaires.

[@VildhjartaFanGurl]

A property he called morbin It was always morbin time there boys

[@BriarLeaf00]

Hey I'd like to hear your WH40k jokes!

[@ericjohnson6105]

Sounds like par for the course that wealthy slave owners declare that all men are created equal.

[@Hatetherapy]

I, for one, want to hear Roberts Warhammer 40k jokes.

[@menedian]

More like Stockton Crush amirite?

[@daniellundberg2875]

My mom used to sing me a song about the assassination of Lincon, I loved the part when the blood splashed on the wallpaper.

[@Jakeurb8ty82]

Stockton 'the boiled cloud' Rush. 'Ugly not bags of mostly water.'

[@markifi]

i wouldn't stock tons of people in the submarine it's bit of a rush job

[@VerbenaComfrey]

Snitches get fishes.

[@FlameDarkfire]

4:35 the answer is always yes

[@TheDwarfchucker]

I want to hear the Warhammer jokes........

[@paulschumacher4308]

I want to hear your war hammer 40K jokes.

[@LordEvilmancer]

Oh lol, I haven't listen to this series because it broke my brain to listen to this kind of stuff all the time. Also I'm a disgusting communist that doesn't believe in the divinity of the American state.

[@skepticalbadger]

I didn't realize Roger the alien had his own podcast.

[@marcuswalters8093]

19:12 *EXCUSE ME*

[@OuryLN]

More like an iron lung

[@oliverdupuy1382]

Rush wasn't a bastard, he was just arrogant. He didn't intend to hurt people and he didn't knowingly put people at risk. His flaw was that, when others told him he was doing it wrong, he believed his own self-induced hype over their engineering skills. And believed it to such an extent that he built a deathtrap which he personally felt 100% safe in. I liken his actions to those of speeding driver. He was warned, and he should have known it was a risk. But in his own head, he knew best and that meant he could safely ignore the rules. And like a driver who speeds, it's all good... until it goes wrong and suddenly it isn't. That doesn't make him an evil person, it just makes him very arrogant and, tragically, his arrogance killed them all.

[@thindigital]

"he didn't knowingly put people at risk" no, That's exactly what he did.

[@oliverdupuy1382]

@@thindigital You only know something if you believe it to be true. He believed they weren't at risk. He was wrong, and that was his flaw, but he clearly believed they were completely safe.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

​@@oliverdupuy1382 and Hitler _believed_ that the German people _needed and deserved_ more land, and that he was the man to lead them to that destiny: still a bastard.

[@OuryLN]

The bends, nitrogen narcosis

[@23joanlee]

I always wanted to go to a concert where Eris rose up and kicked ass....

[@KS-PNW]

I think the discrepancy around his piloting age has to due with the different terms. I believe he was licensed as a pilot at 18 (and may have worked at that age) but got his commercial license and/or his jet endorsement at 19. There's different grades of piloting licenses. You start with propeller planes and then can later get approved for jets. They're a LOT faster and require more experience to handle safely.

[@callunas]

Y'all don't waste time, do you

[@ebonychan]

the super soaker full of piss show must be entitled "G Whiz" i will not be accepting questions or comments at this time

[@TheObsoletist33]

Ugh.

[@chaoticsystem2211]

yup. we should... ...and for $1000 we let someone sit in that car

[@captainleonardodivichi295]

Having a merchant ship and crashing it like the titanic did is different then the titanic sinking . Lol the titanic was the most or one of the most biggest machines human kind has made at the time. A merchant ship is kinda compared to a car wreck these days compared to back then . It doesn’t always get attention my dude

[@turtle4llama]

In no way am I defending rich idiots, but building from a kit IS building something yourself. Someone sourced all the parts, but you still have to have the skills to put it together. You will often still need to fabricate certain parts, especially if you want to make modifactions.

[@rabidbeaver167]

Died to right wing ideology. Regulation? Nah Saftey factors? Nah .5 is fine. Industry standards? Nah ghettofab fiberglass inside two end caps is fine. Warned by pros? Nah im a pioneer. People build these already? Nah lets build it with amateurs... Backups? Nah every will go right... Right wing boomer syndrome.