Passive-aggressive or Covert Narcissist?

Passive-aggressives are people pleasers who express negative affectivity (anger, sadness, resentment, annoyance, envy) dysfunctionally (by frustrating and obstructing others). Covert narcissists are focused on sustaining a grandiose, fantastic view of themselves - not on their negative affects (emotions).
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[@AugustRichards]

Passive aggression is like an inside joke. The person will passively poke at your insecurities that only you and they know about, and they will do it in front of people to elicit a response. When they get a response they always respond with "OMG, you see how he/she talks to me." Everyone will say to you that you are in the wrong and it destroys you emotionally. Then the passive-aggressive person will console you and tell you it's ok. Then do it again, and again, and again. Each time it takes a small piece from you and you will lose the ability to be self-dependent and the passive aggressive narcissist will use this as a means of control to instill their sense of self-importance to others while demeaning the victim. It is equal to slipping a little bit of poison into your coffee and over time you develop an illness that requires a caretaker. The narcissistic savior.

[@michigan1085]

This comment is so spot on!!! Exactly what they do to people, especially to ones who are close to them

[@icazocaoo7]

👏👏👏👏

[@TallKulWmn1]

💯 excellent analogy too

[@roxydarlingart]

As a Neuro divergent person, I am told I am blunt and rude, on a regular basis. So, when I see try to get my point across that I’m irritated, but in a nicer way, I’m told I’m passive aggressive. I feel like I’m in a catch 22/double bind. If I’m honest, I’m an ass. If I try to be nice, while communicating when I’m irritated, I’m considered “passive aggressive “….Thank you for making this video. It helps me understand better.

[@roxydarlingart]

@@lorishu48103 Ahhhhh! Thank you! I get why I’m taken as passive aggressive! I was raised in the rural south to always be “polite.” Thus, trying to be polite, and still communicate while irritated, AND make a point. Ugh, my brain hurts. Communication, with sensitive egos, is stressful. I feel my words are twisted, I’m seen as rude for being honest, and passive aggressive cuz I’m trying to be heard by speaking in a “polite” way. Don’t mind me while I slam my head against the desk, and just talk to my cat for the foreseeable future . 🤣😵‍💫😭 I really appreciate you!!!!

[@vantom9836]

@@roxydarlingart you have awareness and diagnosis of your neurodivergence. Perhaps you can communicate that. Awareness and understanding need to spread!

[@anewchapter1336]

Thank you very much for this Professor Vaknin. This completely descibes my husband of 22 years, his mother (whom he is enmeshed with), and her family (the collective passive aggessive narcissitic cult). I am putting them all behind me as I write this and freeing my heart and mind of them. I was very naive and deceived for decades (but did ignore early red flags). Also, I recently found out my husband has been addicted to testosterone injections for over a year, which have amplified his passive aggressive/narcissistic/psychopathic traits to almost overt levels.

[@sitascott8446]

Thank you. I recently had an encounter with one of these. I think my mind can shut up about it, now.

[@vantom9836]

My brother is a covert narcissist displaying negativistic traits too. He does care a lot about his image and goes out of his way to make himself look good and to enable his own power fantasies. He often disguises insults as jokes so that he both gets to tear people down, including famous, successful athletes and entrepreneurs, and gets attention as an affable person, perhaps recruiting some flying monkeys in the process. The notion of Schadenfreude describes him well too. Despicable! Why can't people just be happy for others' success? He's been obstructing me in so many subtle ways for decades.

[@runwiththewind3281]

Professor Vaknin, thank you.

[@rachellechavez9739]

This post is really one of my favorite. Great share! thx

[@notagain779]

I wonder if Mike's wife was domineering and emasculating? Mike explodes when you ask him about his relationship with his wife and tells you it's none of your business. This occurs to me because it's exactly how my brother reacts to me if I ask any question even coming CLOSE to why he would allow himself to be so humiliated by his wife. (No matter how gently I come near the topic) My brother will actually put his hand up and run out of the room! We are NOT allowed to discuss her dominatrix behavior. So much about Mike's behavior is just like my brother, who is also covert grandiose and very passive aggressive. He likes to frustrate others, too.

[@chaiandmatcha]

Latter day witch doctors😂😂😂😂 Dr ur extremely funny

[@jwojczulis]

What's wrong with people? Meghan Markle’s latest interview is ‘narcissism off the scale’ kzbin.info/www/bejne/raPdimd9q6efr7s

[@spiritualhumantv4609]

The best explanation of the intricacies of both disorders. The two are easily confused, mostly swept under the rug of narcissism without the understanding of these details. Thank you, Sam, very helpful!

[@artsyalkalearnandgrowbeaut3731]

Being a co-dependent, I had been passive aggressive too because I was scared of people’s anger and their arguments. It was a very unconscious behaviour in me. It’s painful to be passive aggressive. You want to say it but somehow you are too scared of people. I thought that they will understand me in silence that they had hurt me. But then I met a covert narcissist. They are very scary people. Their passive aggression is very threatening, it more sounds like that they gonna attack you. I understood it late why was attracting these people? The patterns resonate. I so want to get rid of these patterns and faulty operating system. Healing to everyone!

[@nickf9392]

This is actually very interesting. My last LTR was passive aggressive narcissist, and she did in fact have a problem with Automatic Negative Thoughts...ANT's. It was a difficult set of issues to deal with. She was not a mean person, so I tried to make the best of the relationship....however in the end, she discarded me rather abruptly (the end of a 5 1/2 year relationship). I knew it was not going to go any further, and in the end I am better off now, but its still painful to know I tried to make something work that would in fact NEVER work. This is all so taxing.

[@JohnSmith-lk8cy]

I thought the ex was passive aggressive to my cost. It was NPD and I had the divorce from hell and post separation abuse. Assume its narcissism until proven otherwise.

[@angelbaybee3700]

I try to make a point to not be passive aggressive and so most often, I disclose that I'm angry about something...whoa does that piss the passive aggressive off. Its difficult but I am not down to surpress my uncomfy feelings...it seems to be unacceptable to be upfront w a lot of peeps. The gorillas know a lot more about this stuff than we do.

[@SouLightness]

A combo of the two...painful. Preparing to run.

[@georgefrazer2231]

No contact is still the best policy is absolutely true. You are dealing with very negative individuals and collectives that have perfected their act and are professionals at what they do. Thank you for this video. If only more were aware of these individuals and be able to get away from them before they literally destroy them.

[@elstal22]

My basic understanding from your videos is that the chorus of negative voices in my head (mother, father, sister, ex-husband) are the result of me having internalized a fake, non-person’s judgement of their photoshopped snapshot of me.

[@paradoxdeslebens9220]

Is there a connection to alcoholism or substance abuse? Can it be considered as passive aggression towards others? I have relapses and neglect my chores, dont go to work, let people down by not showing up and hide from people. Either because I'm in middle of a relapse or detoxing and getting a clear head again. After those relapses I feel deep regret and shame and promiss myself to do better. I don't want to be that way and I also envy people who don't have a problem with drinking. I can and feel joy in other peoples achievments and never ever have I tried to sabotage them intentionally. But this hits very hard to home and I fear I somehow use the alcohol or the relapses to justify this kind of passive aggression or "not conforming" to basic values. I often feel like I'm showing a lot of people an emotional middlefinger when I relapse. Normally I'm joyfull and proud if I have myself under control and am very reliable but after a will it catches up with me.

[@reneerenee6166]

That passive-aggressive attitude with my nex would grind my gears. I hated it because he was already a horrible communicator. I could see the veins in his forehead throbbing and his clenched jaws. But when asked what was wrong, I would get nothing followed by two weeks of the silent treatment. Glad to be free! Thanks Professor for helping us make sense out of the chaos.

[@louisalouise472]

Yep

[@starmalone9290]

Sam you are still the greatest!!💖

[@cassiecat7038]

Many people are passive aggressive. You need covert manipulation behaviors and lack of empathy along with healthy (or unhealthy!) doses of me me me to conclude a covert narcissist. I’m acquainted with one right now, textbook 🤨😫

[@StrangelyCrafting]

This turns my understanding of passive aggression on its head, I though I was but really i'm more avoidant than anything. The element of intentional and repeated aggression is the determining factor. Its really creepy and shows how unaddressed insecurity can be the basis of some dangerous behavior.

[@fidelmashelton9491]

Nasty Nice Cutting behaviour from them. The World owes them. Great insight thank you.

[@SarahEWalsh]

Dr Vaknin: I can’t tell who is the narcissist: me or him. He’s very passive aggressive at times, mumbling insults under his breath and slamming doors in front of our son. I’ve been trying to talk to my hubby about how I feel about his mother controlling our lives, but he always flips things around to make me the antagonist. Nothing ever gets resolved and ends in an argument of him insulting me and me insulting back with the same insult. I feel like nothing will change after 9 years of marriage!!! Thank you for the time you put into educating people on this topic!! Baruch Hashem ❤

[@tayyabausman8871]

It hardly gets better

[@audreyboyd1069]

Listening to this lecture, I started to wonder if negativistic/passive aggressive personality could be somewhat reimagined as covert psychopathy.

[@kmac1480]

No it's a different type of character disorder

[@123wollert]

I thought bureaucrats and passive-aggressives were the same things.

[@koda0388]

Prof. Vaknin, are you more likely to come across a passive-aggressive person then a covert? Would you consider it a spectrum like the "narcissistic style" not an all-pervasive disorder like narcissism? Thank you

[@samvaknin]

Passive-aggression is much more common than covert narcissism.

[@koda0388]

@@samvaknin thank you

[@malgorzatal.3815]

Prof.Sam can you please share info about people who get dependent diagnosed, how to get out of it as fast as possible 😅 shortcuts are welcome! Seriously I would appreciate your advice on this topic. Thank you.

[@charlottekyoto9519]

Oh wow... I was convinced that my soon to be ex husband was a covert narcissist but now I'm thinking he is a passive agressive negativist...

[@johnjohnstone9805]

It's just The Natural Effect Of Being denied A Voice. Gotta Get Sneaky If You Want A Voice.

[@wolfmanracquetball]

thank you for sharing examples of couples and individuals to help us paint a better picture🐺

[@EEIJ]

Prof. Vaknin I listened twice to your video and I have a question I hope you can answer. What happens when a covert narcissist marries a passive aggressive women?

[@ellenbruckermarshall4179]

Return to my religion of birth, Quakerism, and attendance at (Deacons equivalent) meetings, I’m astounded at how reactive I am to passive-aggressive tactics. I am safe now, trained in psychology, group behavior, and systems change. But I understand how the refusal to surface conflicts, especially among peaceful Quaker Friends, creates self-sealing, dysfunctional incentives. It feels impossible to get anything done working with this passive avoidant style.

[@Future_Pheonix]

I believe I was raised by a covert narcissist mother.. And a different sort of narcissistic father. And I believe based on this video that in addition to my many disorders, I might also be passive aggressive (and what I think is called co-dependant). Is there something I can do to change it? Also, I think I'm not like this with close family/people I can be more open around. Instead, more anger would come out sometimes. Or just negativity. It depends on the person I'm with.

[@meldavis2563]

I’m dealing with this and trying to figure out which category he falls under. He is definitely passive aggressive but from learning about this I’ve also began to realize I have a lot of borderline traits. For instance I treat the silent treatment the same way and I am determined to out silence the other person. Maybe I’m covert also. I have no idea. My father was a grandiose narcissist that was in and out of my life. He taught me a lot of things about relationships and how to “win”. I don’t think that was very healthy. I think my mother had a lot of borderline traits.

[@rangeelixir8921]

I am very curious to know what your father taught you.

[@paulad.4578]

Thanks for this video. I, unfortunately, have PAPD, which really sucks. But I have been in therapy to do my best in making what changes I can. The sad thing is that there are those who conflate NPD with PAPD. I had a roommate years back, who was a fledgling therapist. We had difficulties. Most of what bothered me at the time I lived with her was her assumptions of why I was doing, what I was doing. She never came out and said, "You are a covert narcissist," but she treated me as if I was one and interpreted my motivations as if I was one. This upset me. Made me feel bad and completely misunderstood. It undermined my trust in her and pushed me to further shut her out. What it did was to undermine an already struggling relationship and eventually caused me to cut her off. I was diagnosed with PAPD by my then therapist and find that (sadly enough) that diagnosis continues to be relevant in my life. When I open the DSM and read the criteria, I think, "Damn. It's still there." It sucks because I know I will probably/most likely be carrying it to my grave - and, to be honest I really don't think it is much better than NPD. Both diagnoses are pretty bad. That being said, when I read the criteria for both of them, PAPD resonates with me in a way that NPD never has. I say all of this only because people do need to know that there is a difference between the two diagnoses. And, they should also be aware that just because someone might seem to be a covert narcissist that may not be the correct diagnosis at all. Again, thanks for the video.

[@aratneerg3699]

So as you understand it, what is the difference between the two disorders?

[@heathermercer3070]

Thank-you Professor Vaknin 🙏

[@erdaltorun]

A very important and extremely detailed explained video on the matter. I can take very many statements to 100% from real life, not only the treatment of therapy between the aforementioned man and his wife, where it is even frightening many statements are reflected in detail but also just the small details that make the difference, even if it often does not feel different. For a person concerned it should not matter what name the child bears. The only sensible way should be to leave the relationship, because the behaviors are frighteningly similar in many ways extremely. For the diagnosis the small difference is nevertheless extremely important and very well explained!

[@oneluv4499]

Professor Vaknin, is it possible to have a covert/inverted narcissist (voluntarily in a codependent relationship with a narcissist, has essentially handed their life over, meets other criteria for dependent PD, seeks narcissistic supply vicariously) who does not have the resigned/defeatest attitude of your case study, but uses all of the exact same passive-aggressive PD tactics you described here? The living to frustrate, oppose, subvert, sabotage, etc. Plus, the grandiosity, superiority, delusions, paranoia, lack of self-awareness, lack of empathy, and sadistic tendencies are all there. But then add in a large dash of the bizarre and eccentric. It's like a Cluster A, B, C smoothie. I am at a complete loss.

[@miragejet3973]

Hey... Shoshamin...

[@cube435]

This is one of the most well articulated and accurate explanations of these conditions ever published. Once again, Sam nails it.

[@davekumarr]

Thank you Samaharishi for leaving the door ajar.

[@rangeelixir8921]

So, what is Mike? A Covert Narcissist, or a Passive Aggressive Negativist?

[@moviedaydream6778]

He is Passive Aggressive.

[@pattiaden5946]

Wow... Sounds like a thin line between covert narcissist and someone with negativistic passive aggressive personality disorder. So it's easy to arrive at the assumption that they have covert narcissistic issues. My ex-husband was most definitely one of these. This was very interesting.

[@anewchapter1336]

Agreed and same with my husband...he has many traits of both.

[@sw.7519]

Sometimes the same.

[@4am350]

hey i am an artist and i follow i have been reading your book and something about torture i remenber very very useful accurate information knlowledge indeeed... i follow you since the movie on arte i guess with my past away borderline documentary filmmaking past away lover anyway.. you really have been very helpful and very wisely informing .. this video again was lets say in perfect synchronicity with my current struggles and i thank you for the clear and intelligible and intelligent and very actual and accurate information perfectly in time in deed in flow...

[@4am350]

i wanted to tank you life is a clever joke after all ...

[@LauraFlores-ge7qx]

Thank you professor.

[@scorpification]

Thank you!