Pastor REACTS to Missouri Mormonism

[@HelloSaints]

Did you know there are so many Mormon splinter groups? What info did I miss while covering some of these splinter groups?

[@marclucas9701]

Beats me

[@chrishumphries7489]

What I would love for you to cover is not the splinter groups (they are all quite small, community of Christ is by far the largest at 250,000 members). What I would love for you to dive into instead is what is prophesied to take place at that location. Why is this still such a special spot to members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? What do we believe independence will yet become? What will the world be like and what is the significance of Independence during the times of prophesied tribulation just before Christ comes, and the Millennium after He comes? How do these things relate to what the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Bible (particularly Isaiah) say and teach? I believe you will find this far more fascinating and important in my opinion. God bless!

[@zionmama150]

One of the controversial topics surrounding Jackson county is that so many people misread D&C 84 (where it speaks of the temple “shall be built”) as a prophecy. But it was not a prophecy, it was a commandment for the saints to build the temple, which they were unable to at that time due to persecution. One day, we will get the land there to build a temple and welcome in Jesus prior to His return to the world. His second coming will have several appearances, but one general one to the world. That final appearance will be near Jerusalem where He will put His foot on the mount and it will cleave in twain.

[@braydenweese1407]

Great video, Jeff. I had no idea there were so many splinter groups. I agree it is very important to disregard any secondary matters. President Nelson expressed his concern in the October 2022 General Conference that our relationship and focus with Jesus Christ is what matters most. Also, I love this talk from Corbridge I linked below, which talks about primary and secondary concerns. If you haven’t already, I also highly recommend watching President Nelson’s most recent talks from the October 2022 General Conference. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/hISopH-qrLCtrNk

[@coxrocks25]

I'd love to see you attend a temple open house and get your take on that. It's too bad you missed the Washington DC open house. The salt lake temple will likely have an open house in 2024.

[@sampson1952]

I wanted to clarify a comment that was made by Steven Pynakker regarding having 2 churches before Joseph Smith's death. They were not two churches, as such, they were different Stakes (which is a group of congregations). Each had a different leadership over them but they were still part of the same organization that Joseph Smith established.

[@casualobserver9113]

Ditto. Steven Pynakker made several errors on the history.

[@8dreamersfarm]

YES

[@sampson1952]

@@casualobserver9113 Yes, I noticed that there were a few mistakes. The one thing that he said that I appreciated was the fact that having the authorized Priesthood was a key difference. That is really what it all comes down to. By that, I don't mean that having the authorized Priesthood is more important that the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Savior's Atonement is foundational to our very purpose in coming to the earth. I was referring to the most important thing in the context of which Church is the Lord's authorized Church.

[@heidiWava]

Interesting

[@jessekoeven3757]

@@sampson1952 amen, may I also add that Jesus Christ is the ultimate source of all priesthood Authority on this Earth. He was and is the great High Priest of both priesthood orders.

[@marktaylor4938]

“Don’t allow anything to eclipse the importance of who Jesus is.“ Love it. Thank you for being an example of this through your kindness. Latter-day Saints, as you surely know by now, love Jesus. We’ve always been perplexed how others who claim to love and follow Him could be so unkind to us. But you are not. Thank you.

[@misterskins]

My thoughts exactly. Thanks again

[@dukeblockington1179]

I love how respectful you are when you walk through buildings. I am LDS and found your channel. Like all members have said many times before thank you for being kind, and respectful.

[@calearnett8945]

I served as a missionary in the independence Missouri mission! And you are such a great example of being so Christ like! I haven’t been back since I got home. Thank you for bringing it back to me. You are a good man

[@peterg.barlow7621]

Hey, I got called to this mission and am leaving May 15. Could you DM me?

[@richardnelson3538]

Pastor Jeff, I love how you ended this. The important thing is to remember is Christ is our Savior, through him we can do all things. He is our ultimate example. Thanks so much for kind and considerate review our church.

[@jlewis8145]

Which Christ? The Christ of the Bible was God in the flesh. The LDS Christ is a created being the brother of Satan. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129). Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

[@richardnelson3538]

@@jlewis8145 , let me ask you a question in return. Does it matter? You see, you and I believe that Christ came to earth so that mankind might be saved. We believe that he suffered for our sins, that he died on the cross in order to loose the bands of death. We believe that Christ taught that the greatest commandment is to love God with all your might mind and strength and the second is like unto the first, that is to live thy neighbor. We believe he taught us to not judge lest our judgements be used against us. We believe Christ healed the sick and raised 3 people from the dead. We believe he taught us to forgive and not to condemn through his example of forgiving the woman taken in adultery while still commanding her to sin no more. He taught us that to truly love we must give of ourselves freely, serving with no thought of recompense or discrimination of who we serve. He taught and did so many other things that we both believe. So how does my belief that Christ is the Son of God and that Heavenly Father is a distinct separate being, and the Christ is not only Lucifer’s brother but ours as well take away from the fact the he is our savior and our advocate, and the ultimate example for all of us?

[@jlewis8145]

@@richardnelson3538 It matters a lot which Christ you believe in. It is the difference between spending eternity in heaven or outer darkness/hell. I don't believe that the brother of Satan ever came to earth so that mankind might be saved. I do not believe that he suffered for our sins, that he died on the cross in order to loose the bands of death. I do not believe that the brother of Satan taught that the greatest commandment is to love God with all your might mind and strength and the second is like unto the first, that is to live thy neighbor or that he taught us to not judge lest our judgements be used against us. I do not believe the brother of Satan healed the sick and raised 3 people from the dead or taught us to forgive. The brother of Satan would never command anyone not to sin. The brother of Satan never taught us that to truly love we must give of ourselves freely, serving with no thought of recompense or discrimination of who we serve. ****** Jesus Christ claimed to be God. Not God the Father of course. (There are 3 persons in the Godhead.) That is why Christ was crucified. It was called blasphemy to claim to be God and punishable by death. When you mock your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and say that he is a liar and not God, you are committing blasphemy, a very serious sin. You are rejecting your only hope of salvation. Does the word 'Emmanuel' mean the brother of Satan is with us? Merry Christmas! 🎄 Matthew 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.” John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Col. 2:9 For in Jesus dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Even God the Father called Jesus, God. Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. Jesus said your sins would not be forgiven if you did not believe He was God. John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.” 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” Was God the Father and Jesus Christ both lying?

[@richardnelson3538]

@@jlewis8145 before I answer, let me clarify your belief. Do you believe in the trinitarian view where the Godhead are one person but 3 beings (I think I got that view correct, this view has always confused me) or are you a Christian who believes the Godhead is made up of 3 distinct beings with God the Father, Jesus Christ being God the Son and there is the Holy Ghost all United by one purpose? The way you wrote it sounds like the later but like I said Trinitarianism confuses me especially with the way it is talked about.

[@jlewis8145]

@@richardnelson3538 Who you worship is the core of any religion or belief system. As a Christian, I do not worship your Heavenly Father. I would be breaking the first and second commandments if I did so. The Bible teaches that: 1. There is one God. 2. There are three persons in the Godhead. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. 3. Each person is God. "Baptizing them in the name ( singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." Matthew 28 Christians believe in the triune God of the Bible. Anyone, who does not believe that God is one essence and three persons is not a Christian. That is why Latter day Saints are considered a Christian cult. They take the essential truths of Christianity and distort them into something unrecognizable. The word 'cult' refers to an unorthodox sect whose members distort the original doctrines of the religion. A cult is a group that teaches doctrines that, if believed, will cause a person to remain unsaved. A cult claims to be part of a religion, yet it denies essential truth(s) of that religion. A Christian cult will deny one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity while still claiming to be Christian. Latter day Saints worship an 'exalted man' from another planet, have a different Christ, who is the brother of Satan and have a gospel of grace plus works.

[@coxrocks25]

So funny that you just knew at the visitor's center there would be some senior missionaries to help you out. Lol you're seriously getting used to the way the church works.

[@HelloSaints]

Senior missionaries are awesome!

[@tx2jbh81]

They’re some of my most favorite people. ❤

[@lauracarpenter6411]

"Don't allow anything to eclipse the importance of who Jesus is." I love your message at the end of this video.Thank you!

[@richarddick2955]

Even in Christ's ministry people were breaking off from the church. 1Corinth1:12" This always happens even today Leon Musk fired over half of his employees for betraying his company. Ego driven humans just like Judas betray the faith The difference is that Christ was gathering Christian's to one church not 500. Acts 2:47 clearly says those who were to be saved were added to his church."Acts 2:47" What church? The church of Jesus Christ. You said believers must unite to one Jesus, but, how does this work? Christ said we must "leave his ordinance of baptism and his laying on of hands in place." ( Never remove Christ's ordnances) concerning both baptism and laying on of hands or you completely lose Christs narrow path.) He said, leave the DOCTRINE of baptism and laying on of hands i to keep the holy Ghost in place, or lose everything. " Hebrews 6:1" Only the LDS church does that fully! Christ is the same yesterday and forever! Right? What happens if Christian's do away with this very ordinance according to your own Bible? Bible says clearly this, "He that removes Christ's ordinances shall receive of themselves damnation. "Romans 13:2" In other words, if you remove Christ's church ordinances you automatically remove Christ from his own church doctrine. "Romans 13:2". Any church saying you don't need Christ doctrine anymore today is under damnation! Churches today say this, "we can have Christ with any church, or any set doctrine! Satan's big lie my friend! When did Christ come down and change that directive? Did Christ not command the apostles to baptize all nations? And, all those who are baptized shall be saved? And, all those rejected baptism would be damned. (Mark 16:15). Guys like Diatrephus broke off from the church to have their own relationship with Christ by themselves, casting the apostles out of his church calling them names was he not cursed. The idea that you could go off on your own was pure apostasy according to Paul. Why do you think they were all writing letters and trying to keep one church together? They were all following one preisthood authority consisting of the one 12 apostle leadership each following Christ's ordinances by gathering people into one body! Nothing else could work. Link KZbin video titled "Book of Abraham part 7 " by me.

[@katielin317]

Just wanted to let you know that you are renewing my faith in evangelical believers. After many difficult and hurtful experiences I have had with people in your faith, you give me hope that not all evangelicals will allow their fear/misunderstanding/disagreement to get in the way of potential friendship and kindness toward me and those of my faith. Thank you.

[@kennethcadwell2124]

Nobody who claims to be Christian should ever be rude to others. So sorry you had those experiences as most likely they weren't true believers, but instead corrupted by Calvinism....... With that said however we are told in God's Word to point out and expose false teachings. Thus in some make sure you aren't confusing rebuke with rudeness..........

[@lizzsszzy7800]

@@kennethcadwell2124 It's not really the Calvinists who are a pain, it's the KJV fundamentalists who go around yelling at people :(

[@kennethcadwell2124]

@lizzsszzy7800 I haven't met a Calvinist yet that doesn't push their religious private interpretation on others........ As for KJV fundamentalists, yes they to can be an issue when they stick to the English translation so strongly that they don't take the time to learn the original Hebrew or Greek usage of words or how the early Church used certain words in the first 3 centuries......... But again I can say that about those who strongly hold to other translations as well.......... As for English translations go though. The KJV through study by hundreds of scholars has been proven to still be the closest and best translation to the original languages........... But back to those you see standing outside abortion clinics, bars, or other buildings causing strife judging people. They are mostly Calvinists or right-wing evangelical charlatans.........

[@kristaw2686]

I wish I knew you were coming to town! We're evangelical Christians who live nearby and God has placed LDS people on my heart. So cool to see you in my neck of the woods. :)

[@richarddick2955]

Even in Christ's ministry people were breaking off from the church. 1Corinth1:12" This always happens even today Leon Musk fired over half of his employees for betraying his company. Ego driven humans just like Judas betray the faith The difference is that Christ was gathering Christian's to one church not 500. Acts 2:47 clearly says those who were to be saved were added to his church."Acts 2:47" What church? The church of Jesus Christ. You said believers must unite to one Jesus, but, how does this work? Christ said we must "leave his ordinance of baptism and his laying on of hands in place." ( Never remove Christ's ordnances) concerning both baptism and laying on of hands or you completely lose Christs narrow path.) He said, leave the DOCTRINE of baptism and laying on of hands i to keep the holy Ghost in place, or lose everything. " Hebrews 6:1" Only the LDS church does that fully! Christ is the same yesterday and forever! Right? What happens if Christian's do away with this very ordinance according to your own Bible? Bible says clearly this, "He that removes Christ's ordinances shall receive of themselves damnation. "Romans 13:2" In other words, if you remove Christ's church ordinances you automatically remove Christ from his own church doctrine. "Romans 13:2". Any church saying you don't need Christ doctrine anymore today is under damnation! Churches today say this, "we can have Christ with any church, or any set doctrine! Satan's big lie my friend! When did Christ come down and change that directive? Did Christ not command the apostles to baptize all nations? And, all those who are baptized shall be saved? And, all those rejected baptism would be damned. (Mark 16:15). Guys like Diatrephus broke off from the church to have their own relationship with Christ by themselves, casting the apostles out of his church calling them names was he not cursed. The idea that you could go off on your own was pure apostasy according to Paul. Why do you think they were all writing letters and trying to keep one church together? They were all following one preisthood authority consisting of the one 12 apostle leadership each following Christ's ordinances by gathering people into one body! Nothing else could work. Link KZbin video titled "Book of Abraham part 7 " by me.

[@rebeccalambert3240]

I love how respectful you are in your videos. Especially here because the history of the church in Missouri is very personal to me. My family helped found the church's establishment in Missouri, and near the Independence area specifically. Some people don't understand how much of a culture it is, for any of the groups I imagine. For me specifically I know stories of my family members being harassed for their beliefs, even generational trauma. Thank you for being so thorough in your investigations

[@kennethcadwell2124]

Was they actually harassed or were they being biblically rebuked ??? I ask because many take being rebuked with scripture (which is biblically allowed) as harassment............

[@courtneymartinez8639]

@@kennethcadwell2124 the governor of Missouri placed and extermination order on them. LDS we’re legally allowed to be murdered and they were, then those who committed the murders were legally allowed to take the homes, property and belongings of the people they murdered without having to pay for them, they just moved right in…that’s not being rebuked. Look up the Hawns Mill Masacure. It was horrific and it happened in the winter, women men and innocent children were murdered.

[@kennethcadwell2124]

@Courtney Martinez I know all about that. Did you know that Executive order 44 was in response to the 1838 Mormon War where they attacked the Missouri militia first at the Battle of Crooked River ??? And the order ordered both either extermination or removal from the state for violating the law....... Sadly men like John B. Clark instead of following both parts of the order just carried out the extermination part........ The order was later rescinded and a former apology was given......... I don't agree with the termination part. However whatever Missouri has done in the past had absolutely no bearing on me, nor does it change false teaching that is within the book of Mormon.......... So don't know why this was even brought up..........

[@Inzpectre]

@@kennethcadwell2124 Why are you trying to justify harassment and past trauma?

[@kennethcadwell2124]

@Inzpectre where did I justify harassment or trauma ??? Correction and Harrassament are two separate things. These should not be conflicted as the same thing as some do.......... It is part of human nature that people don't like to be pointed out they are wrong. However this in no way is harassment when done.........

[@talkofchrist]

Love this. Thank you. Note: though there may have been dozens of splinter groups, fewer than a half dozen groups still exist with more than a thousand adherents, and only a couple with over 10,000. Only the mainstream SLC Church has over 300,000 members. This is a difference between the splintering of general Christianity and the splintering of the Restored Church. Only one branch of the Restoration really thrives.

[@BarrettBurgin]

This exactly. Well put.

[@zionmama150]

@9:29 they weren’t separate though, they were the same Church. They just were two congregations.

[@jessekoeven3757]

Amen Zion Mama

[@oliverpetersen3930]

Hey pastor I absolutely love your videos and so does my father. We are a lds family and I love how you are so respectful and kind when learning about our religion. I would love to share a story with you and everyone who reads the comments. There was a time in my life that I lost all testimony I had of heavenly father and the church of Jesus christ of later day saints. My life was a life of sin as a 19 year old but one night I had a dream where I was sitting at church and there I fell asleep and had a dream within my dream and there I was standing on a rock and I saw people crawling on there stomachs with torn cloth moaning and screaming in agony and a voice was heard. In a very soft and kind tone I was told if I continued my life as it were I would end up like these people then time sped up and around me I saw colors like I never seen them before and large crystals raised from the ground and then I saw families together very happy and the voice is heard again saying if I change my life and go back to church and follow the gospel I would end up here and I felt an overwhelming warmth of love and joy. I awoke from my dream into my first dream and I told everybody about my dream then I awoke from that and that's when I started gaining a testimony. My life has never been the same afterwards and I always keep my life living on one foundation and it's what Jesus taught us, that's to love one another. Afterwards I would get more dreams that I'm sure were messages from God and although those dreams are very sacred and personal to me this dream message I come to learn was meant to be shared which is the meaning behind why I told everyone after I awoke from the second dream. You are welcome to share my story pastor. I look forward to your other videos.

[@saramay5286]

“Don’t allow anything to eclipse how important Jesus is” - Beautiful! ♥️

[@johnb5254]

Which Jesus?

[@Threefoldawareness]

The one and only "Messiah "

[@johnb5254]

@@Threefoldawareness Jesus of the BoM or Jesus of the Bible?

[@Threefoldawareness]

The crucified Jesus

[@johnb5254]

@@Threefoldawareness Jesus of the Bible, gotcha.

[@danielwadsworth1014]

Amen! I respect you so much with doing your own history homework! As you were going through these topics in the video, I couldn't help but come to the same final conclusions as you did! Keep the focus on Christ and what he did for all of mankind! There will be some differences in some beliefs but focus on Christ. I wish more Christians were better united that way. Very well done! Awesome work! -Your LDS Brother-

[@KellzerColeman]

Thanks for all your efforts to create great content...appreciate anyone with an honest heart. Lots of religions around the world filled with beautiful people. Lots of beautiful people in no religion at all. Don't care what label people carry, just love good-hearted souls. Have to believe all people are trying to do their best to believe & follow in a sincere way. Hard to find a perfect church, but not difficult to find wonderful people. Frustrating to see when people of any given religion create division. You are a kind respecter of others😊- thanks!

[@trenthalliday]

I’m a member and found a small splinter community during my mission which basically held beliefs of a higher calling according to a vision received by its founder. But when followers truly read the book of mormon, they were soon converted to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. #ReadPonderPray

[@markloe5432]

Thank you for another enlightened post. I serve on our local stake high council of the church. As I am given speaking assignments at the various wards my focus is to have the members turn their hearts to the Savior as He is central to all that we do in our daily lives.... I love that you quoted Paul.... Amazing are his teachings.... Because he taught of Christ.

[@TempleScoop]

I agree turning our hearts to the savior is so important doesn’t matter who we are our relationship with the Savior is an important foundation of who we all are. -Chad James.

[@TheRoger1205]

What Jesus do you turn your heart to? The “Burning in your Bosom” Jesus, or the Jesus of the Trinity?

[@TempleScoop]

@@TheRoger1205 I know but one Jesus Christ. ~ Chad James, Ph.D. Religious Studies

[@germanslice]

​@@TheRoger1205 You got a Problem with Luke Chapter 24:32. There's the LDS Burning in the Bossom Doctrine found in the Bible taught by Jesus Christ himself.

[@AB-xq1kn]

Mark, I have a coworker who is finished his term as a local bishop. He said he has his doubts about whether the lds church is true. Is this common?

[@beckycollet5677]

As always, you treated the subject very courteously. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I was not aware of all the splinter groups. I was raised in California. But it is unfortunately human nature for people to fight against each other and lose sight of the teachings of our Savior, Jesus Christ. He is the Prince of Peace and set a tremendous example for us. We forget that God is in charge and will ultimately determine our destiny. We must learn to live in peace with each other, all Christian faiths.

[@skyjust828]

💓 thank you! I was born & raised LDS too but left when I was young. I can't figure out what the LDS church is all about today😭 I know when my parents were living my mother kept me "apprised" of things (probably in hopes in my return) but I tell you 4 yrs after my leaving I had a near death experience & I saw my grandmother (who was Dallon Oaks Aunt) & my Aunt (who died b4 marriage) beconing me to stay, I was expecting my 1st (in 4) child. So no worries families stay together in Heaven no matter if they're sealed or not 🙏😊

[@ladybugmom10]

Amen

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

@@skyjust828 After reading and hearing many NDE experiences, and my understanding of the Bible, it's not so much that families stay together in heaven, but that we recognize each other, especially upon first arrival in heaven as part of God's grace in helping us get used to a new culture!

[@redplanet76]

I think it’s important to note that the splinter groups are in comparison teeny tiny. There are something like 180 splinter groups but some are just a handful of members or outright disbanded. We recognize these groups but find them irrelevant. We don’t give them much attention… our focus will always be Jesus Christ and his atonement for us.

[@belkanoir3517]

Rlds, restoration, and community of Christ are huge groups.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@belkanoir3517 the "rlds" IS the community of christ now, which has around 250,000 members. The next largest is the bickertonite Church of Jesus Christ with around 23,000 members. All others are under 20,000, so I'm not sure what you mean by "restoration"

[@mariahcrump3322]

I was very touched by this video, particularly the end when pastor Jeff reminds us what causes division and how Jesus and his saving grace is what we need to keep our focus on. I have experienced Jesus’s sweet spirit and redeeming power in my life. There is nothing more real than Jesus. ❤

[@GMMXX80]

Good video Pastor Jeff. I learned stuff I didn't know before and I've never been able to see that part of the country. As usual, you're very respectful, so thank you

[@jessekoeven3757]

Pastor Jeff, thank you for your respectful language and treatment of what you percieve. I recognize you will most likely not join us as A Latter-day Saint, but know that we follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible, the same Jesus Christ as is prophesied of, preached about, seen, listened from, and promised to return to reign on this earth in the Book of Mormon. When you get around to reading it, I hope you will find this to be true.

[@hannabfree]

Growing up in the church we definitely aren’t taught that there are a lot of splinter groups, it’s so strange to me. I appreciated the extra historical comments on the difference between Protestant churches and the LDS churches, with the LDS churches being unlikely to combine their priesthood. There is so much pride and division. All of these idolized leaders throughout history and today make me so sad and have caused me to leave the church and want to open my heart to Christ. I really appreciate these perspectives and your input on what Christianity is truly about. Staying connected to Christ and God and not causing division.

[@brettmajeske3525]

Depends on where one grows up. There are multiple sub-cultures within the LDS Church, and some discuss the history more than others. Wards in Pennsylvania, New York, Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri handle history differently than Utah, Idaho, or Arizonia.

[@8dreamersfarm]

“The wise man built his house upon the Rock” 🎶 . We learn from age 18 months in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to place our trust and build our testimonies in Christ. It’s not doctrine to idolize leaders, where it happens… judgement will come. It is absolutely possible to be a member of the church and not participate in culture contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

[@amynazza]

Sad that you weren’t aware of this! I remember talking about the different splinter groups around the family dinner table many times and even covering it in high school and college seminary classes. 😢

[@TheAndsinpants]

@@brettmajeske3525 yep. If you’re a Missouri Mormon it’s commonly taught. If you’re an Idaho Mormon, you probably didn’t get a good history lesson.

[@janiapaige6459]

Wishing you peace and joy and comfort with your departure from the church 🤍 it must be so so hard, but I strongly believe you’ve made a good decision 🤍 hang in there

[@rocketgirlie]

I'm so early!! Jeff, I like your videos because my new bosses wanted me to learn more about their LDS faith and it's very helpful to understand our likenessesses and differences

[@Borkybaby]

Welcome to the learning :)

[@erinleighwilcox]

@@dougbrown8331 agreed

[@anthonynettleton8346]

I am lds and yes I am glad your watching these videos but please just ask missionarys or even ask them your new bosses as they should be able to answer questions for you

[@beckywalton5200]

@@dougbrown8331 You nailed it! He’s got his phd…he fully well knows the honest place to start is by reading the BOM and giving it an honest review. If you’ve watched several of his videos he keeps saying he will read it. I don’t think he has any intention of doing that.

[@Zeett09]

Why on earth are your new bosses talking to you about their religion? That is totally inappropriate.

[@honder1866]

Thanks for another fun and informative video, Jeff. I would point out that the term “splinter group” is somewhat of a pejorative. At the time of Joseph Smith, Jr.’s death, there were many who had legitimate claims to successorship. These include Joseph Smith III, Sidney Rigdon, James Strang, David Whitmer, and Brigham Young. If you look at each of these groups today, such as Community of Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ (Monongahela, PA), The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite), The Church of Christ (Temple Lot), and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (SLC, UT), each has some elements of the original church under Joseph Smith, Jr. But it it also notable that each has developed and changed over time. Thus, even though the Utah-based church has more members and more wealth, this does not mean the smaller, less wealthy “expressions of the Restoration” represent splinters or break offs. They are all schismatic groups, including the Utah-based LDS church.

[@barryl.johnsonsr.8014]

I sincerely appreciate your kindness when you are expressing your beliefs, whether in opposition to or in support of the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I agree that Jesus Christ is, or should be, the center of focus in any true Christian's life and belief system. Best wishes to you, Pastor Jeff, as you lead your congregation and help the world keep straight on facts and fiction. I'd love to treat you to lunch one day when you are, again, visiting SLC. God bless you and your family.

[@brxtnyng4276]

If you’re interested in the history of the church you should checkout the Saints books. They go into detail and cover the whole history of Joseph Smith.

[@kathrinebeeder9892]

YES. I was thinking the same thing. I suppose the church wishes to stand in the Light and not rabble with the crowd. Teach by example. But reading the "Saints" book zeroes in on the details that many splinter groups and haters leave out. Logical and to the point. Who, why, when, where. I didn't doubt, but it helped to hear details from my leaders, not the naysayers. And yes, I believe anyone who worships Christ, tries to follow his example, and has a good heart and does their best to fellowman is what matters. Christ will make up any difference.

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

@@kathrinebeeder9892 Striving is not a free gift of grace, is it?

[@dandelion1239]

It’s not a church. It’s a cult. Demonic is an understatement.

[@lemueljr1496]

For anyone interested in learning more about splinter groups, read Steve Shields' book "Divergent Paths of the Restoration." Another great video. We need to get you talking to more Community of Christ members though!

[@katieandmickknobel2739]

Yes!!! You need more information on who Community of Christ is. You are standing in front of our temple claiming things about us that are incorrect.

[@AimedMusic]

Thank you Jeff for spreading the truth of the sad history of the Church that most people don’t see. D&C and Joseph Smith - History helps understand the Saints full story.

[@jenneferc8768]

Knocked it out of the park. Before getting baptized I think a convert like my self research alot, almost so much for reasons not to join. I remember this was one of my question to the missionaries. Because I knew how many splinter groups their are in a Christianity. They made it sound this was the first true church and a couple splinter of from there. So in conclusion there are but I thought not so many. This video help me realize there are way more than I thought. While they are not huge. I felt in my heart this was the original church. Just as when I grew up catholic, while I didn't think it was the true church it was the original church before the reform and thought that was the most truest church at the time after Christ died. I then learn the catholic chruch was established 300 years or so after Christ died. Love the conclusion of this video. I totally agree. That we shouldn't be bickering with each other. Love that and to keep it focused on Chirst. Totally agree! Thank you for another great video!

[@rosevirginiatasker7583]

Hi Jennefer, I'm a Catholic. Who ever 5old you that the Catholic church start 300 years. It was present at the being , it was set up through Jesus Christ. And the Apostles who continued after the Lord's resurrection. It was the at Pentecost, through the Holy Spirit was given. Hence, they went out to the world and set up churches as the faith grew. The Orthodox faith which we part of is that small churches that existed in the NT.

[@jenneferc8768]

Jesus never came to start a religion. He came so that all mankind will have a chance to be in right standing with the Father through life, death, burial, and resurrection. Jesus never called his followers Christians, or any kind of religious denomination. He called them brethren and disciples meaning "discipline one." The only time you see anything regarding Christianity in the Bible is when after Christ died and his followers were called Christians at Antioch. A Christian is someone who "acts like Christ"and is a follower of His example. It has nothing to do with being part of a specific religion. Constantine started the religion of Catholicism. Catholicism influenced by paganism. Which is against the Most High, while I didn't worship Mary I would pray to her as a means to get through God sometimes, or pray to Saint Jude for health instead of Praying directly to God. Throughout the Bible, everyone that God called had a relationship with him. They weren't part of a specific synagogue during that time. They knew the Father's voice and followed his instructions. The same with Jesus. He himself stated “ The son can not do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing”. (John 5:19). This is one of the examples that shows Christ's relationship with Our Father In Heaven and their oneness. He was saying that this is about intimacy with God, not ritualistic practices through a religion. Now I am not saying that religion is completely bad, I go to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are some great values and wisdom to learn when it is being taught right...But the truth will always stand, God wants us to have a relationship with him through Jesus Christ his son. He want us to be united and help each other out as a church(unity/group) HIS people. I hope this helps explain my take. Our focus is what Jesus wants us to do which is written in the scriptures.

[@rosevirginiatasker7583]

@@jenneferc8768 Hi Jennefer, it seems you really have not look into the background of the Church early history, but what the LDS has told you. Here is some info for you,which I would recommend you to read as it is a large document. But here I will give only snippets. From Wikipedia on "the persecution of the Christians in the Roman Empire" The persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire occurred, sporadically and usually locally, throughout the Roman Empire, beginning in the 1st century CE and ending in the 4th century CE. Originally a polytheistic empire in the traditions of Roman, paganism and the Hellenistic religion, as Christianity spread through the empire, it came into ideological conflict with the imperial cult of ancient Rome. Pagan practises such as making sacrifices to the deified emperors or other gods were abhorrent to the Christians as their beliefs prohibited idolatry. The state and other members of civic society punished Christians for treason, various rumoured crimes, illegal assembly, and for introducing an alien cult that led to Roman apostasy. Here it goes on about the different persecutions through this period mention. Then Augustus Dolcletian (283 - 305) began the Dolcletiantic persecution, the final general persecution of Christians, which continued to be enforced in part of the empire until the Augustus Galerius (310 - 313) issued the Edict of Serdica and Augustus Maximinus Daia (310 - 313) died. After Constantine the Great (306 - 337) defeated his rival Maxentius (306 - 312) at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge in October 312, he and his co-emperor Licinius issued the Edict of Milan (313), which permitted all religions, including Christianity, to be tolerated. I find it unbelievable how you and the LDS church rewrite history to suit your doctrine. You and your church has denied the holy catholic and Apostolic church, it history. And the saint who have gone before us the suffering and persecution to have the Church to be present to this very day. And this persecution has continued right up to this very moment in time. Your church has totally replaced every teaching from the prophets, to Jesus Christ and the Apostles in a complete turn around. This is immoral and evil. This I would use the term Replacement Theology ( even though this term I used for those who deny the Jewish people their inheritance) I would use it here as that what you and your church spews out. And looking at some of these comments from your members with their myths are totally unbelievable.

[@rosevirginiatasker7583]

@@jenneferc8768 2nd part Romans gave that name to those who were of The Way. Which was retained by the followers of Christ (Christian )

[@rosevirginiatasker7583]

@@jenneferc8768 hello Jennifer, I would like to give my apologies to you for speaking harshly. I understand where you are coming from. I was baptised a Catholic at age 8. My mother chose that, even though she wasn't Catholic (she was a Salvation Army), but my father was brought up in a Methodist family. And his father was a lay minister. And after the death of his mother, he went to England to meet up with family in the early 20th century, age 15. There he was influenced by Marxism. Hence was a communist till his death. My sister was baptised Anglican. I do not know what my brother was. I guess you see the picture. So I really had no one to guide me, so I was going to convert to Judaism, but ma sister-in-law, asked if I would listen to the missionaries. I did it to shut her up, and continue on my way. When the missionaries asked to to pray about the church, to see if it true. Instead, I prayed about Jesus if he was the Messiah whom we have been waiting for. As I did not really believe in Jesus. And even yhogh through the female line is my Jewish inheritance, and that what was important to me to know who this Jesus was. And if it was so, will I guess that a church is a church. The answer was yes. I followed from there, believing in prophets, coming from a jewish prospective. I had no idea about churches. I was in the LDS church 35 years, married in the Temple, had 2 lovely children. But one thing g I always did before reading the scriptures was to asked the Holy Spirit to open my eyes to gave understanding of ehat I was reading, and still do. And as God taught me never to your trust in the arm of man, regardless who they are, bit to trust him only. And that's why I'm here today back in his church, and am grateful to him in looking after me. I have with as we all do, that what I know now, I wished to have known that before. And what I see in you, that you kike me, never really understood or bother to learn the teachings of the church. Now there is something I like yo teach you from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is on the Priesthood. I know that Pastor Jeff had slightly touched on it in a other video. THE ONE PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST 1544 Everything that the Priesthood of the Old Covenant prefiguresed finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the "One mediator between God and men. " The Christian tradition considers Melchizek, "priest of God Most High," as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique "high priest after the order of Melchizedek"; (Hebs 5: 10;cf6: 20; Gen 14: 18) "Holy, blameless, unstained,"(Heb 7: 26)"by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified ",(Heb 10:14) that is, by the unique sacrifice of the Cross. 1545 The redemptive sacrifice of Christ is unique, accomplished once for all; yet it is made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of yhe Church. The same is true of the one priesthood of Christ; it is made through made through the ministrierial priesthood without dismissing the uniqueness of Christ's priesthood: "Only Christ is the true priest, the others being only his ministers. "(Heb 8, 4.) TWO PARTICIPANTS IN THE ONE PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST 1546 Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church "a kingdom., priests for his God and Father." (Rev 1:6;cf. Rev 5:9-10; 1 Pet 2:5,9.) The whole community of belivers is, as such, priestly. The faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ's mission as a priest, prophet, snd King. Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are "consecrated to be..... a holy Priesthood. " 1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priest, and the comman priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially. In what sense? While the common priesthood of yhe faithful is exercised by unfolding of baptismal grace(gift) - a life of faith, hope and charity, a life according to the Spirit -, the ministerial priesthood is at service of the vommon priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of the Holy Orders. 1591 The whole church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the 'Common priesthood of the faithful. 'Based on this common priesthood and ordered to it's services, there exist another participation in the mission of Christ; the ministry conferred by sacrament of the Holy Orders, where the task is to serve in the name and in the person of Christ the Head in the midst of the community. Last one as I have only given a bit of this as there is a lot. 1597 The sacrament of the Holy Orders is conferred by laying on the hands followed by a solemn prayer of consecration asking God to grant the ordained the graces (gifts) of the Holy Spirit required for his ministry. Ordination imprints an indelible sacramental character. 1598 The Church confers the sacrament of the Holy Orders only on baptised men, whose suitability for the exercise of the ministry has been duly recognised. Church authority alone has the responsibility and right to call someone to receive the sacrament of the Holy Orders. I wrote this for you. As to point out that it is Christ Jesus who holds the Melchizek priesthood, no else can. The is only one High Priest, and it is he who is Head of his church. And that it through the Holy Spirit he moves and guides us. I'm praying for you. Have a happy Advent. God bless you and guide you.

[@latterdayskeptic]

As an ex-Mormon, I can definitely say that most Mormons consider other Joseph Smith related denominations to be irrelevant and weird. Jeff, I appreciate you and Steven taking these denominations seriously and treating them with respect.

[@MormonBookReviews]

Thanks!

[@karenwestover6166]

As a Latter Day Saint. I didn’t even know about them.

[@AB-xq1kn]

Since you have left, have you stepped back into what the Bible teaches away from where Joseph smith took it?

[@demothenes1904]

The Community of Christ formerly the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints wasn't necessarily an offshoot of Mormonism. After the death of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young took a large portion of the Mormon Church into Utah the Community of Christ stayed along with Emma Smith and the rest of the Smith family in an underground church until it was safe for them to reemerge as a separate church. Most of the holdings in Missouri along with the original writings of Joseph Smith are still held by the Community of Christ. There is much contention as to which is the true inheritor of the Mormon Church

[@zionmama150]

@17:08 We do focus on Christ. His Church is preparing the world for the 2nd coming. Whether other sects break off and don’t follow the teachings is a secondary thing. God is their judge. But what we know and teach we know to be true and we can’t teach that we don’t know when we do because it would be a lie. Yes, the essence of what you are saying is valid, but Christ himself is running the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He also is in all religions and guides them, but we have the priesthood authority to help guide us, just as Joseph of Egypt was the high priest of Israel, Joseph Smith was the instrument in Christ’s hands to bring to pass the church in the Latter-day as prophesied by Paul and several other apostles.

[@slvrsrfr92]

We pull against each other and fight over insignificant doctrines. But at the end of the day we can know we have love for each other and are saved through Chirst. This is the most Christian thing I have heard from anyone in my 22 years of very active LDS faith. Thank you for your message.

[@jlewis8145]

Who you worship and who Christ is determines where you will spend eternity. When you deny Christ and say that he is a created being the brother of Satan, you are committing blasphemy and will not be allowed into the kingdom of God. God is not only love, but God is also just.

[@slvrsrfr92]

@@jlewis8145 I agree with you on the Christian values, and showing empathy and love to our neighbors. I will have to disagree with you on your doctrine. I don't believe the bible is accurate. It is possible that Satan is a fallen angel and a brother to all of us. the bible was comprised and written and translated 70 years after Christ, by monks and rewritten several... multiple times and translated... multiple times by the French and English with multiple/several views by kings with political motives and then re translated again.. and again just within the last 50 years to be more "modern". At the core of Christianity.., at the base of it I believe in love for our fellow man, sheltering the homeless, sick, and afflicted and forgiveness of others and having life eternal beyond this life. Beyond that I have no justifiable opinion or concrete doctrine that I believe in. I don't proclaim any other beliefs to be wrong, but merely speculation and wishful thinking.

[@jlewis8145]

@@samueldraws The Bible says that we are not all God's children. Everyone is born spiritually dead, children of disobedience and children of wrath. Ephesians 2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Our sins separate us from an infinitely holy and righteous God. Isaiah 59:2 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Romans 3 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. **** We are so evil that God has sentenced everyone of us to death. We have all earned the death penalty. Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death. **** Christ told the Pharisees they were of their father the devil because they refused to believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

[@jlewis8145]

@@samueldraws The Bible says that Jesus Christ created all things. That would include angels. Jesus Christ did not create himself. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is eternal. Christ had no beginning and will have no end. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 Christ was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by Christ; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Colossians 1:16 16 For by Christ were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Angels are personal spirit beings created to worship and serve God. We don’t know when angels were created in relation to the events of Genesis 1-2, but Scripture indicates that angels were present when God created the earth (Job 38:4-7). Angels are mysterious to us, and they are powerful beings, but they are created as all things are. Psalm 148 lists various created things, and everything, including angels, is commanded to praise the Lord: “Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts. . . . Let them praise the name of the Lord, for at his command they were created” (verses 2 and 5). Angels are part of the “invisible” things and “powers” created by God and mentioned by Paul: “In [the Son] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things” (Colossians 1:16-17). www.gotquestions.org/where-do-angels-come-from.html

[@jlewis8145]

@@samueldraws Heavenly Father said that his Son was God. Hebrews 1:8 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Jesus said your sins would not be forgiven if you did not believe He was God. John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.” 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” ******* Angels were not created in the image of God. They cannot procreate. They are males. Angels that sinned once were immediately sentenced to an eternity in conscious torment in hell. Human beings were created in the image of God mentally, morally and socially. We can procreate. We are male and female. Adam and Eve sinned once and were immediately sentenced to death. The good news is that God provided atonement for their/our sins by the bloody death of his beloved Son. Human beings cannot turn into angels when they die.

[@TBIhope]

I think you did a good job with this. I don’t know if I worship in the same way as other members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but it’s obvious to me that the focus is on Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. Our church services are focused on Christ. We sit down in the pews, partake of the sacrament (communion, eucharist, or whatever you prefer to call it), hear a couple talks and songs, and that’s that. The focus seems to be on Christ for others, too, but it’s not just on what He did on the cross. It’s about using that power in our lives now and becoming more like Christ, so that when he shall appear we’ll be like him and “we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). I don’t think about other Mormon groups. They’re insignificant compared to the church’s numbers, and the only other splinter group I’ve seen in Utah is the FLDS, and I just feel bad for them. Although I did also see the Strangite stronghold, Beaver Island, while I lived in Michigan!

[@jlewis8145]

How do you know that your group is the correct one?

[@TBIhope]

@@jlewis8145 because I have an undeniable feeling that this church is leading me closer to God than any other church. I know that my answer isn’t scientifically provable, but it’s experientially proven its veracity.

[@jlewis8145]

@@TBIhope The LDS church leads me away from the true and living God. In fact, the true and living God has commanded me not to worship your Heavenly Father. "Thou shalt have no other gods beside Me" You have a different God. God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). The true and living God spoke the universe into existence. God is self-existent. God is the first, uncaused cause of everything you see. No one created God. God has always existed. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Hebrews 11:2 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. *** “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s . . . ” (D&C 130:22). The true and living God is invisible and a spirit. I Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. Colossians 1:15 Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Hebrews 11:27 By faith Moses left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. *** God is in the form of a man, (This is not logically possible.) (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3). God is not a man. I Samuel 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. Hosea 11:9 for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: * “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). Job 9:32 “In truth I know that this is so; But how can a man be in the right before God? “For He is not a man as I am that I may answer Him, That we may go to court together. ** This is not logically possible either. God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105). *** God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428). I Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

[@TBIhope]

@@jlewis8145 you can quote scriptures at me all day, but I’m not invested in you. I pray for your understanding in the future, but that’s all I’m going to do. I don’t appreciate people who send back pages of a reply when I didn’t ask for it. I know what’s true, and I’m happy with my choices. I worship God the Father, and while slight misunderstandings are expected, and I wouldn’t let those harm my faith, I don’t want to worship another God. I love my Heavenly Father. I’m good with my choices.

[@TheRastacabbage]

​@@jlewis8145 is jesus God? The singular being?

[@alchemenergyacademy6231]

Your evangelical friend is incorrect about the two separate churches Joseph visited. They were the same church just different stakes. Just like today there is one main original church with thousands of stake units worldwide that all have the same type of leadership and teachings. Splinter churches are not part of the original LDS church. Including the RLDS church. Btw: The extermination order wasn’t ended until the late 1990’s. And Joseph was still martyred as a young man. You nailed it! In Christ -it isn’t about church and religion. It’s about relationship! Thank you for your great channel.

[@cognitiveresonance339]

I loved your closing sentiments about unity. Please read in the Book of Mormon; Moroni chapter 7, verses 11-14. It explains why we latter-day saints don't typically antagonize other Christians. The implications of that passage are tremendous.

[@DanielWilliamsEli85]

It also should be noted the Community of Christ doesn't claim to be the only true church (they did at one time, but thereDoctrine and teaching has changes over time to be more inclusive), they accept baptism from most faiths so long as there Trinitarian based, they view all believer in Jesus Christ as part of the true church, and each church weather Baptist, Mormon, Pentecostal, Community of Christ as different expressions of the same Christian faith.

[@joannemyers6418]

AND, I believe, anyone can go into their temples.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@joannemyers6418 correct, they don't believe in temple ordinances (they view temples merely as places of spiritual learning and fellowship), so nothing takes place there that the general public can't see

[@amberjcarr]

I can't say how much I love love love your channel! I've been recommending it to everyone that wants to understand LDS better. Thank you for all your hard work! I know a lot goes into doing a youtube channel. Incredible.

[@briantimmons3075]

Excellent information. I was raised in the LDS church and find it very confusing when doctrine becomes the argument and the only solution is that it's members follow their leaders into whatever path the leaders (modern day prophets) decide. I'm too independent for that. I still think the LDS church is the most organized religion that exists on the planet and that it's policies of welfare and treatment of it's members is the best example of Christ's intentions on earth. I wish the Federal Government would take notes on how to conduct it's policies. The whole world would benefit.

[@AustinFaux]

Jeff - Love your videos and your quest for understanding. I feel we're kindred brothers in that regard. Are there splinter groups/denominations of the Latter-day Christian movement? Yes. But 99.9% of them would claim The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Church Jesus Christ Restored through the Prophet Jospeh Smith. I also have to admit I was a bit surprised that you didn't provide much commentary to the "Extermination Order." The first time I heard that I was utterly perplexed and sickened that such a law could be enacted in the United States. But as a side note the State of Missouri officially removed it from their book of laws in the 1970's and even issued a public apology.

[@robdeverger6208]

My family and I moved from the Midwest (Quincy,IL) to Utah about 3 years ago. We are not LDS, but we have had mixed meetings and reactions with LDS members since moving here. It amazes me how much of the "outside" world the devout LDS don't know about or understand or possibly refuse to acknowledge. They also refuse to accept their past and the atrocities they took part in when settling in Utah.

[@Signal_Lost.]

I think part of that is no one alive today did take part in any such atrocities. I'll also say that the church is the same everywhere in the world, except in Utah. Sometimes, being too close to home can shift your perceptions, and the church in Utah is pretty uncontested. As someone who just moved from Utah to New York after living there my whole life, I can definitely see where the culture of the church there shifts a little from the doctrine of the church.

[@Az12er34ty]

I would hardly consider Quincy to be the "outside world." I left as soon as I could and moved to the Northeast. Best decision of my life. We're it not for family, I would never go back. And no matter what official Quincy history and Quincy city websites claim, John Quincy Adams was not born there. Talk about needing to get to the "outside world."

[@robdeverger6208]

⁠@@Az12er34tyI think you may be misunderstanding my original comment. I wasn’t speaking as if Quincy were some magical place all its own, I mean I obviously moved away. I mean outside of going on missions most Utahns have an ignorant view of how the rest of the country works. I’ve lived in numerous states and have not met a group more clueless about things outside of Utah and the church. And why Bring up John Quincy Adams like he is a “big deal” outside of Quincy?

[@lyndsiemmiles]

Life long memeber of The Church of Jesus Christ of Lattter-day Saints here. I love hearing your take. I often show your videos to our kiddos. We truly all need to be united in Christ.

[@chijako7990]

That's why it's always bugged me when some would say "You believe in a different Jesus" or the like. Because there's only one Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Someone may interpret a verse of scripture differently, but it doesn't mean they believe in a different Jesus. I agree that what should come first is Jesus Christ and what we have of the things he said and did, His example, doctrine, teachings, patterns of authority He established, etc.

[@BYLRPhil]

You’re right, there is only one Jesus Christ, and he’s not the Jesus of Mormonism. Your Jesus is created, the Jesus of the Bible isn’t.

[@germanslice]

@@BYLRPhil Nope, we teach in the Church of JESUS Christ of Latter-day Saints that Jesus Christ is a Premortal Spirit Being made of Self-Existing Eternal Intelligence. We also teach that Jesus and the Father are eternal beings and that the spirits of men came from God are also eternal as they are (Ecclesiastes 12:7).. And we also teach that Jesus Christ is risen up in the flesh.

[@Empisee]

Thanks for taking us along on your ride once more.

[@asdfgh9007]

Pastor Jeff, I have commented on multiple videos but I am unsure if you have read any of my comments. I know that you receive a ton of comments so I'm not worried about you reading mine in particular, but I do hope that my words can perhaps help someone understand The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints a little better. If it turns out that you do read this, then I hope that you will like it, and maybe try to find some of my other comments that I have made on your other videos. You had mentioned quickly in this video about how a lot of splinter groups went their own direction due to them not trusting in Joseph Smith being the Lord's prophet or that he had supposedly become a fallen prophet. In the beginning of the church, many of the saints didn't understand the structure/organization of how the leadership worked within the church. Some even thought that if they had received their own revelation from God, then it meant that they had authority to run things instead of Joseph Smith. There was a structure in authority, like how Christ had directed His apostles in the Bible. The head of leadership had the direct authority from Christ to run His church and no one else. Some members said that God had changed his mind and wanted them to be the prophet/president of the church instead of Joseph Smith. Some members, including Joseph's own family thought that the authority to run the church went through lineage as it did with many prophets in the bible. This is why Joseph Smith's son eventually was appointed as the president of the reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All men do wicked things in the eyes of the Lord due to us being imperfect human beings easily swayed with temptations. Joseph Smith wasn't any different than any other prophet who has ever been called by the Lord. Every prophet in scripture has at one time or another had times where they didn't do as they should have, but the Lord still called them. Those in the beginning of the restoration of the church in the 1800's didn't think that a prophet could make mistakes and be human when called as a prophet, that prophets had to be perfectly strict in their actions and responsibilities, and so they put Joseph on a high pedestal. If Joseph did something they disagreed with or with what they felt was wrong in general, then they thought that he must have fallen. But it is not up to men to judge it is up to God. The order of the 12 Apostles and the 1st Presidency is set up so whoever is the longest serving in the quorum is called to different positions within leadership. All of the apostles have keys of authority, and all are considered prophets who receive revelation but they didn't understand that they had to work together to decide what path Christ wanted his church to go. Only the living President of the Church who was Joseph Smith at that time, was authorized to use all the keys of the Kingdom on earth. Decisions needed to be made in councils, where they had to come to the same conclusions through the guidance of the Holy Ghost. Only the living President of the Church is authorized by Christ to preside over the decisions being made, that are guided by the Spirit to run the church, and how it progresses. This is generally how the church is run today. When the current president dies, then whoever is in the position as the president of the 12 Apostles usually becomes the next president of the church. Brigham Young was the next person in line after Joseph Smith because he was the senior apostle and President over the 12 Apostles when Joseph died. After Joseph's death, during a church meeting with many saints being present, Brigham Young spoke. As he spoke it is recorded in multiple written accounts that his facial features spiritually changed until Brigham looked like if he was Joseph Smith standing there speaking instead of Brigham Young. This was one of the ways the saints knew Brigham was called by the Lord. The mantel of authority from Jesus Christ moved from Joseph Smith to Brigham Young. Brigham Young held a council with the other apostles where they decided to move the saints west. Brigham Young officially became the president of the church in December 1847 after the saints had moved to the Salt Lake Valley. Read Doctrine and Covenants 123:7 Also here are a couple of KZbin videos of the Church leadership counsels and how they work. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJXJiqWDiNuKlaM kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYGUdKqwhMmJfas kzbin.info/www/bejne/lX69p4lsfLWbnbc

[@KingBobStudios]

I love your wrap-up in the end! I’ll echo what I hear other people saying… Thanks for your respect and your perspective. I love watching your content!

[@CheeseBorgerOffical]

As a latter day Saint i appreciate your unbiased opinion. I also appreciate you being open to our religion.

[@jesusmatters4222]

No offense but we aren't "open" to the LDS faith....it is simple respect for others and their beliefs. We as Christians are trying to gain an understanding of our differences but do not mistake it - we can love you and still call you to repentance. To be blunt, you are teaching and believing in "another Jesus" and "another gospel" as Paul warned of in the scriptures. If YOU were open to what Christians have believed and taught for 2000 yrs, you would know why we disagree with your church's teachings - aside from the fact your teachings include that we are all of the church of satan and an abomination to the Lord. I would love to discuss

[@anthonyterry2896]

@@jesusmatters4222 where exactly is there a difference in the “LDS” Jesus and the “Evangelical” Jesus? I myself am a Latter-Day Saint and have many deep and meaningful conversations with friends of other Christian denominations and we always seem to agree on Jesus Christ and who He is. The Son of God. Our Savior, our Redeemer. The one who died on the cross for all of us. The only name under Heaven whereby we can be saved. Additionally, many a Church leader, both past and present have spoken of other Churches as friends and brothers in Christ. I believe this misconception of other churches being filled with “followers of satan” comes from a misinterpretation of our scripture. Anyway, genuinely curious about your thoughts as my entire time in the Church has been focused and dedicated only to Jesus Christ and coming to know Him. The same One in the the Bible (which I read daily).

[@chrishumphries7489]

@@jesusmatters4222 That is NOT in our teachings. What you are referring to is a passage in Nephi talking about a prophecy that is YET to be fulfilled. Nephi is being shown a vision of what is to come in the very last days. If you read the passage in context, you see that it is YET future. There will come a day shortly when there are two churches. God will completely separate the righteous (people with true faith in God from all backgrounds and denominations) and the wicked who love the world. This will be both a spiritual and a physical separation. At this point there will be two “church’s”, and those for Christ (all denominations) will be absolutely distinct from those who are against Christ (Ephesians 1:10). Around this time the “whore of Babylon” falls, which is also in the Bible (In the Book of revelation). You must read Nephi in context, this is referring to a particular moment in time.

[@jesusmatters4222]

@@anthonyterry2896 LDS Jesus: Satan's brother, born after actual sex between the Father and one of His goddess wives. The Jesus of LDS theology is only eternal in that you believe matter itself is eternal - that He is created, and is God of this world Heavenly Father of LDS: once a man on another Planet (a sinner) who BECAME God of this world through exaltation. Jesus & Father of Scripture: Eternally Yahweh from before time began, and is the God of the entirety of creation. He created ALL THINGS in heaven and on earth and has no beginning (The Word who became flesh). He is not satan's brother, He created satan. Hope you can see the difference....and as you see from Galatians 1 and Corinthians 2 that Paul warned us repeatedly of another Jesus and another Gosepel, and said those that believe and teach another Jesus/Gospel that you are accursed! In love, I am here to tell you the truth

[@jesusmatters4222]

@@chrishumphries7489 So no, im not referring to Nephi. One thing I did mention about the false gospel you all preach comes from 2 Nephi, and there is no nuancing it 2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Now see how this conflicts with the scriptures: Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

[@dukdog]

First off, thank you for your honest interest in my faith. And thank you for being a fellow follower of Christ, and your efforts to bring as many as you can to Him and to expand His gospel of peace. And may I add my witness to yours that Christ is the center of everything, and all truth is rooted in Him, and should lead us back to Him. less importantly, but just FYI the "2 churchs" statement was largely accurate, but could be interpreted wrong, primarily in the scope of the Kirtland apostasy. Now, I'm not saying it wasn't significant, because it was, but it wasn't half the Church at the time, but rather about 10-15% of the congregation in Kirtland. Here's some more details. There were 2 bodies of the Saints, or congregations. But it was one church and under the same overall leadership and organization. The first temple built by the Saints was in Kirtland. Now in order to understand this I think it's best to understand some things prior to Kirtland. The Church was originally organized in New York, but due to mounting persecution in 1831 the Prophet told those in New York to relocate to Kirtland. It was while building the community in Kirtland that a missionary was sent to the furthest West location within US territory to try to preach to the Native Americans. Joseph Smith soon visited Missouri and said that Zion would be established one day in Independence. This was before the Kirtland temple was built, as it wasn't finished until 3 years after the expulsion from independence to Clay County. During this time, members in Kirtland were being asked in small groups to relocate to Independence. The Prophet asked the Saints to wait until they were called to go for the relocation, as he knew tensions with the locals in Independence were high. One member who seems to have been overexcited at best (and there's some evidence that he thought to glorify and enrich himself at worst) seized on Isaiah 2:3 and convinced many poor converts in Kirtland to ignore the Prophet's direction and instead follow him and they would fulfill prophecy, and he would lead them to the promised land where they would be well set up. When a large group of mostly indigent Saints showed up in Independence where the unprepared Church leadership didn't have resources to care for them, the locals became afraid that the rest of the Saints were similarly impoverished and that the community was going to go to pot. One can look to current southern border towns to see a modern example of the strained tensions at play. This resulted in the expulsion from Independence. Now, about 4 years later, after the Kirtland temple was built and a failed attempt at establishing a bank, things went down in Kirtland. 3 of the 12 apostles were excommunicated, and about 200-300 (10-15%) left the church and joined themselves to those 3, but a large portion of those in Kirtland had been migrating to Missouri for years, and the last of those still faithful (85%+) went with the prophet and the 8 apostles still faithful at that time. So it wasn't him losing all followers in one congregation, but rather him losing a large number (but a minority) of the congregation in Kirtland, which resulted in accelerating the ongoing migration efforts to Missouri and also deciding to abandon Kirtland pretty much completely as they could not guarantee the safety of those that stayed behind as the splinter group there were growing violent (swords having been drawn and threats made at one point) so those still faithful should relocate to Missouri just as they once had relocated from New York to Kirtland. So it wasn't losing 1 full congregation and running to the other, but rather losing a sizable minority of one congregation, and finishing a migration that had already been underway to come closer to the promised Zion.

[@Longe]

Great video, Jeff & Steve!

[@melauralee8319]

Hello Pastor Jeff! I've enjoyed your videos while painting my basement this winter! You're entertaining and seem curious and sincere in learning about the LDS faith. I've also enjoyed learning about the evangelical beliefs and some of your "preaching" has helped me through a rough trial which I appreciate. Next year I am visiting Missouri to see these church history sites along with Adam-ondi-Ahman, Nauvoo, etc and to see the total solar eclipse. It's pretty cool that the 2017 and 2024 eclipse path of totality happen to cross in Missouri. If you ever need a meal in Provo our family welcomes your family anytime!

[@brodiewells]

I've enjoyed a lot of your videos, and you've always been so respectful. This one seems to take a turn where you're telling us what we believe (which we don't) then tell us why it's wrong.

[@bawesome5039]

This guy uses his videos to proselyte or rather get people to deny Mormonism... he is a wolf in sheep's clothing... Pretending his purpose is curiosity. Actually his purpose is to instill doubt in the minds of any who don't believe how he does...

[@carlosb8970]

If I understand correctly, most of the splinter groups in Independence are not from the LDS Church, but from the RLDS (CofC) or the Temple Lot Church.

[@Daprince740]

I believe that you are entirely correct!

[@zionmama150]

@12:30 That’s evidence that the same thing happened to the saints in Christ’s day and that apostasy is a thing. False prophets arise and try to take people out of the true church of God. The apostasy was prophesies before and the Church did fall into disrepair following the death of the original apostles. But this second time (when the Lord would set his hand a second time to recover his people as prophesied and Isaiah), the apostles did not die and they were able to carry on the work of the Lord because they held the priesthood KEYS. That’s the only reason why we call ourselves the “true” church. Because we hold Priesthood keys. There are still many more doctrines to be revealed.

[@HonesE57]

Keep our eyes on Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith. Who for the joy set before Him endured the cross! He conquered death and GAVE those who BELIEVE, Eternal Life! Another excellent presentation! Thank you for your sensitive and respectful heart.💖

[@SeanLayton]

After long months of suffering in jail, the Prophet Joseph Smith received reassurance from the Lord: “My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment” (D&C 121: 7). Opposition is a sign of God's people. We have a firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the revelations states, “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1: 30.) The importance is to follow the priesthood keys. Doctrine and Covenants shows that once the First Presidency is dissolved, all the keys are held by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Those keys were held by the Twelve who were with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that moved to Utah. “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

And what about where Peter tells us that we are now all a royal priesthood? I Peter 2:9

[@athenabowler3788]

I was disappointed that you did not tell about how much the Saints suffered at the hands of wicked mobs and why they had to leave.

[@philbrooks5979]

Would love to see you go over the CES letter, highlighting a long list of issues within this organization.

[@HelloSaints]

Interesting idea. I've heard a lot about it...and I'd like to read it.

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

@@HelloSaints It's on-line!

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

@@HelloSaints The CES letter is very accessible on-line!

[@Beastlango]

Sure you might not go to different levels of heaven, but from my experience most Protestants think a lot of the other groups are just going to hell.

[@kinganalyze]

Great video! I love Steven's shirt. Joseph Smith for President

[@BostonFlammer]

I wonder what it would have been like if he had won.

[@Paxmann92]

Haha didn’t even realize that’s what it said. 😂

[@Yelta]

Dear Pastor, you talked about the divisions between men and churches (actually two stakes), after talking with Steven Pynaker. The gospel was restored to bring the truth on earth with God's priesthood and authority to have no more confusion in regard to what church to go to. Whatever "splinter groups" came out from the church, it was because of their own pride and disagreement and their own judgment. How many Protestant splinter groups are there do you know?

[@asdfgh9007]

Jeff, Thank you for always being respectful while doing research about the church. It is truly appreciated. The only thing that keeps bothering me about some of your videos though, is that you speak to non-members about the LDS faith and expect that their answers are correct. Some of the things being said in this video, and in others are not correct. Wouldn't it be helpful to speak with someone in a leadership position within The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints, or a church historian atleast. Yes there are many people who are not members who learn things about the church and they honestly try to understand it, as i appreciate that you have done respectfully. But what sources are you using to get the information? If I wanted to learn how to cook in a resturant I wouldn't talk with a dressmaker, I would talk with a chef or someone simular. Why talk to a non-member when you can ask questions from those who actively attend, are in leadership positions, or they study and teach about the church? So I would like to suggest that you could maybe try meeting with John Bytheway and Hank Smith. There is also an amazing church history professor named Susan Easton Black, who knows the church front and back. Another great source is the church library app which has multiple answers!!!

[@HelloSaints]

When I show up at locations like this, I do little-no research. 99.9% of the information I share is from what I had just learned in a visitor center from senior or sister missionaries. So if it is at all inaccurate, unfortunately it's coming from those who are showing me around and answering my questions on site.

[@asdfgh9007]

@@HelloSaints Thank you for responding. Being a member of the LDS faith i still am trying to learn things myself. In my post to you, I was talking more about when you speak to non-members and needing to get information from accurate sources. Sometimes things said aren't correct by non-members due to misunderstanding a subject. Talking with missionaries is usually good. I am truly thankful that you are trying to get information any way you can though! I wish that more people were open to learning and not necessarily believing, instead of only criticizing another's beliefs due to misunderstanding it. So I appreciate your kindness! I have posted another comment also on this video, and some on others, if you are interested in some historical information I have learned myself.

[@jeffswatkins]

“All … things which pertain to our religion are only appendages” to the Atonement of Jesus Christ.” Joseph Smith

[@AarmOZ84]

Loved seeing Jeff and Steve dive into the fact that Mormonism does splinter on a regular basis, even in the last 10 years. Awesome video, as always.

[@MyTJ13]

I believe that you misunderstand what we experience as members of the mainstream religion. I have never, in my 52 yrs, felt the splintering of our religion. I simply am aware of the different sects but have never felt confict, contention, or been any more than simply "aware" that they exist. Our experiences and perception from the inside is very different that what you are describing. Also, we do not believe AT ALL that the levels heaven have to do with what you are describing. We believe we are judged by our works, our hearts, our dedication to Christ, etc... Salvation is personal, between us and God. And only God knows our hearts, minds, actions, and intentions. I think you are trying your best to accurately portray who we are and what we believe, but I feel a strong sense of being misrepresented.

[@Civil_Maniac]

I don’t know of any large splinters recently. I know the fundamentalist sects have had a lot of turmoil but I know the LDS church hasn’t had any significant splinters recently (probably since the fundamentalists broke off) and I haven’t heard anything about the community of Christ dividing

[@supertal6074]

That is not true at all.

[@previewqueen]

I've always known about the splinter groups, it was taught to me in lessons as well as by my parents. I was even taken to visit one of their visitor centers before. We were always told to treat them with respect and not to do anything that would relate to "bible bashing" because they were our "relatives" in faith. I will say that there has been a lot generational trauma in the members whose families date back to this time, due to what happened there as well as what happened when they left Illinois. Some of it has gotten better over the years, but do note that some of the Latter Day Saint culture behavior or thoughts does stem from this time period.

[@michaelmarcus2318]

The Temple of the Community of Christ, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Temple, was designing by Gyo Obata who also designed the National Air and Space Museum, Washington, D.C., Moscone Center, San Francisco, California, and Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport in Texas

[@josiahroy4558]

Have you read any the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ yet?

[@jessekoeven3757]

Colon instead of a comma between Mormon and another. The subtitle is included with the main one, not a seperate idea.

[@Formerlyknownas7435]

Is that like another gospel?

[@coxrocks25]

Can't wait for those videos

[@jessekoeven3757]

@@Formerlyknownas7435 It is another "Gospel" in the sense that like the Gospels found in the Holy Bible it is A collection of sacred interactions between A group of people and A God that loves them. It is not another "Gospel" in the sense that it adds anything to the Holy Bible in any way shape or form. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ, it stands together with the Bible in testifying to Jew and Gentile, or in other words, those who have made covenants with him and those that have not, that Jesus is the Christ(These last records[the Book of Mormon], which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first(The Holy Bible), which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved[1st Nephi 13:40]).

[@rosealexander9007]

@@Formerlyknownas7435it’s a made up book with made up stories and plagiarism

[@greggweber9967]

According to the story, Admiral Lord Nelson before the Battle of the Nile called his subordinate Admiral and Captains to his flagship to make sure everyone knew the plans. He saw that the Admiral and his Flag Captain didn't come on the same boat. They had a dispute. Nelson pointed out the far off masts and yardarms saying "the enemy is over there."

[@jessekoeven3757]

Pastor Jeff, you and Steve seemed to be a little confused as to why the church split into two groups after the collapse of the Kirtland Safety Society. If I may elaborate on what Zion Mama said in her post concerning this matter. This time of church history was marked by A rapid expansion into the then frontier territories of the United States with Independence Missouri and the surrounding area being the forefront. Latter-day Saint converts from the early missions in Europe were rapidly immigrating along with large bodies of saints from Palmyra and Kirtland to settle and establish homesteads. With the church rapidly growing in both places, Joseph made two church headquarters as it was impractical to gather all of the saints in Kirtland amd he was recieving revelation from Jesus to settle in Independence. As you pointed out in your video, the native Missourians, afraid of the sociopolitical influence the saints wielded, along with land speculation possibilities were afraid of the saints and lashed out, sometimes aggressively. The escalating tensions, along with rampant misinformation dispersed by enemies of the church caused Governor Boggs to issue the extermination order which stayed in force until 1976 when then Governor Chris "Kit" Bond rescinded the order. Far West was established in Clay County as A compromise prior to the order, when the order was given and Joesph and others hauled off to prison, Brigham Young and the other leaders looked back to the East to Commerce Illinois, where A small group of Saints had found refuge with the inhabitants of the small town. The rest of the Saints found refuge there as well, and Nauvoo was born from the swamps outside the town after Joseph was released.

[@MormonBookReviews]

I cover this period in my interview with John Hamer: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYPNmYqibrFmhbc

[@jessekoeven3757]

@@MormonBookReviews I will watch that interview and then comment.

[@richelledavidson8473]

Thank you for that beautiful message at the end about focusing on the wrong things - dividing things - dividing us... focus on what brings us together, and what should be central in our lives - Christ.

[@robandsherriedavidson2307]

As a Latter Day Saint, I totally agree that all of us of any christian church need to remember Christ first and foremost before all the ancillary things!

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

Yes, especially during Advent. Remember that only God can forgive and that is why Christians know that Jesus IS God - 100%. Peace!

[@AB-xq1kn]

Which Christ? The Christ of the Bible in John 1 or the Christ created by the the "God" living out near kolab? You follow a different God and a different Jesus.

[@joeshriver778]

@@AB-xq1kn we teach the same precepts that The Christ taught in the Bible. Do as He has taught, love thy neighbor and love The Lord. All else is fluff

[@jlewis8145]

@@joeshriver778 The LDS 'Christ' is a created being the brother of Satan. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129). Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15). The Christ of the Bible requires perfection. Matthew 5:48 Be ye perfect. You need the righteousness of God to get into heaven. Good people do not get into heaven. Only God is good.

[@joeshriver778]

@@jlewis8145 so, by how I read what you wrote, no one that has ever been, is and will none on this earth will get to Heaven? Only Jesus Christ will be in Heaven? The semantics that you speak of has nothing to do with anyone’s salvation. Salvation is through belief in Christ, the Christ of the Bible. If we believe that we are children of God and brothers and sisters of Christ, that is a minor thing and nothing for anyone to get their nickers in a bunch about. What anyone should first examine is, does whatever church they are investigating talk about following Gods Commandments? Do they teach to love your neighbor? Do they teach to Love God? Do they teach that the reason we obey His commandments and Laws is because we Love Him? These are the things the church teaches. The rest is fluff. Like the two Great commandments Love the Lord thy God with all your heart mind and strength, second, love thy neighbor as thyself. Upon these hang all the Laws and the Prophets

[@jdeatley5939]

Community of Christ is not a splitter group of the Utah based church. It is the church that was reorganized by members of the early Restoration movement. It’s second prophet was Joseph Jr. and Emma Smith’s eldest son, Joseph Smith III. Emma Smith was also a member of this church. This church has always been independent of the Brighamites, rejecting plural marriage and other Nauvoo era innovations, particularly doctrines influenced by freemasonry. Until the year 1996, Community of Christ was led by the Smith family. This changed, however, when Wallace B. Smith, Joseph and Emma’s great-grandson, designated the first non-Smith to succeed him as prophet and president of the church. All are welcome in this faith movement dedicated to peace, reconciliation, and healing of spirit.

[@Borkybaby]

Love independence. Went there on a trip back in college. Was very cool. Tough time for us Mormons there.

[@briannicholls2628]

Beautiful view into history and what is happening today. Thank you for your testimony of our Savior Jesus Christ

[@zionmama150]

Thanks for doing a video on this. Many people do not know there is other splinter groups. The stories of the persecution of our ancestors are important to us.

[@jerry_phillips]

Another great video. So uplifting. Thank you.

[@philbrooks5979]

Good observation to point out the various sects with Mormonism itself, since Mormons like to point out the various protestant denominations as proof of apostasy.

[@MaybeMable111]

I think you would find great interest in talking to Brother Anthony Sweat! He's a BYU professor that has moulded their Foundations of the Restoration course, and he knows a great deal about that time in Church history, and why it's important for what the Church follows today. He's also an amazing painter and a really nice dude!

[@FlightParamedicRN]

Yes!!

[@yanfoo]

As I Latter-day Saint, I agree with your conclusion. And I raise a question : Since Latter-day Saints also believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, the atonement of Jesus Christ, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, would the feud between Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints regarding Galatians 1:6 (which no Evangalical can actually support, except through circular reasonning), or the matter of the Nicene Creed, etc. fall in the same category, to fight over matter that have nothing to do with Jesus Christ? I would posit that it does; it has nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and creates more divisions than anything else.

[@maxstooksberry9458]

I would argue that there is a difference between LDS gospel and Evangelical Christianity gospel. Jesus and the apostles preached that salvation from sins/eternal life comes by faith in Jesus apart from works. Joseph smith and LDS have a whole list and covenants/requirements to follow in order to receive eternal life. That’s where the difference lies. How is someone reconciled to God? How are they forgiven of sins and receive the Holy Spirit (guaranteer of eternal life)? Acts 3:2-3 and 1 John 5:13 explains how anyone can receive eternal life.

[@BoardsAndWetsuits]

@@maxstooksberry9458 So you must be ignoring James chapter 2? Maybe you've not read it?

[@maxstooksberry9458]

@@BoardsAndWetsuits James 2 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation/eternal life; works are the evidence of it. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. James contrasts two different types of faith-true faith that saves and false faith that is dead. People are reconciled to God by faith apart from works. (Romans 3:28)

[@BoardsAndWetsuits]

@@maxstooksberry9458 I agree with everything you just said. Could this summary be helpful? - We are saved by grace, but judged by our works.

[@yanfoo]

@@maxstooksberry9458 the argument of being saved by faith vs works is only relevant if we define what "being saved" actually is. If you mean to receive a witness of Christ and forgiveness of sins, then you are correct in that we are saved by grace alone. But if you mean to be judged and sit with Christ in His throne (Rev. 3:21), then you certainly miss the part about becoming like Christ, which does require to serve others (i.e. works). As it was discussed, let us not get lost on definitions and focus on Jesus Christ. Sincerely.

[@TomorrowsChild86]

Joseph Smith was just a Man just as Moses or Abraham was just a man … isnt is marvelous that God calls just Men to be his Prophets.. he Loves all of us .. and I know without a doubt that Joseph Smith was called to be a Prophet for the Latter Days .. im so grateful for this Knowledge.. also David Whitney and Sidney R might have had challenges with Joseph Smith but the never denied ever that they saw the Golden Plates ever!!! What can be said of that … you tell me ?

[@randyfischer5082]

Several years ago I purchased a house that needed lots of work. As we removed carpet and started work I found myself only thinking about the damage and issues the previous owners caused for me. After a few weeks I started to see it as the future home I would raise my family in. Sometimes we focus too much on the damage and not enough on what really matters. I do appreciate your honest search if that is your motivation. Jesus Christ is the way, Truth and the light. To be successful in any spiritual journey, He has asked us to give Him a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I recommend researching Lehi's dream. In 1 Nephi 8. Then Nephi is given the same vision in 1 Nephi 11. Hold to the word of god, the path is straight and narrow that leads to the living waters.

[@randyfischer5082]

Moroni 10:4-5 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

[@danvan2683]

There is for sure two sides to this persecution narrative, without a doubt the darker side of human nature rises up on both sides of this story, it's interesting having been raised lds coming to understand what the non mormon settlers would have been exposed to.

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

Can you elaborate what they were exposing the non-Mormons to?

[@BrianTerrill]

While there is a lot of talk about splinter groups in LDS history I'd point out the LDS church has over 16 million, the Community of Christ which is second as far as numbers go has about 250,000. You might think looking at that one area of Independence Missouri that the whole movement is full of different splinter groups. I wouldn't want to argue that protestan Christianity is somehow glued together. The fact is most of Nazi Germany were Litherans and most of them fighting them were protestants from a splinter group of the Church o England

[@AnnieWinter148]

Enjoy your videos. BTW, did you read the Book of Mormon yet?

[@beckywalton5200]

You know the answer already. 🙃

[@t.thompson9977]

Great episode! Of course adding Steve was epic

[@dontstopbelieving24]

Yes, there were splinter groups especially after Joseph died. Brigham Young continued many of the ordinances that Joseph Smith reveled in the Nauvoo Temple and are practiced today in LDS temples all over the world. Other leaders didn't want to fallow these practices like polygamy and temple rituals. Sidney Rigdon said all these things were not a part of the true church and he felt he should be the Prophet or leader of the church. Brigham was the President of the 12 Apostles, the most senior. Rigdon was the 1st councilor in the First Presidency and was away on missions while Joseph revealed these new things. So, the Stage was set for people to choose. The majority fallowed Brigham Young and many of the apostles did as well because they ether new Joseph had taught those things, or they believed Brigham and the other Apostles. But if you look at the splinter groups there is not much to see. And the church that Brigham Young continued, is the whole reason you know about the LDS church today. The reason that there are members all over the USA and the World, really fulfilling a lot of things that Joseph Smith envisioned the church becoming. It is kind of a miracle that the church survived and now thrives today. It is a fruit of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, that their church is the one, that has grown so much and continued. The other churches make up a tiny fraction of the Mormon churches today. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, for all intensive purposes represents the mass majority of the followers of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith revealed.

[@danvan2683]

I've been really wondering how to fellowship with latter-day saints without division, the differences are not secondary issues but foundational issues, it feels wrong to ignore them out of a sense of getting along, how to best talk about these foundational issues without seeming adversarial seems like trying to walk on water!

[@danvan2683]

@@jacobsamuelson3181 what do you recommend? I'm a believer in the Christian sense but don't see the restoration as credible, it seems the gospel message isn't something that would be withdrawn while history is full of apostasy, including today.

[@jbailey1898]

Also, the restoration of the ordinances of the priesthood, like sealing for time and eternity.

[@danvan2683]

@@jacobsamuelson3181 one problem I keep seeing is concepts that can mean very different things depending on the development of them and evolution over century's, these topics are not done justice in this format. The idea of ordinances and the authority to practice them are very important to latter day saints so it's hard to criticize without seeming like a bad person or at least a thoughtless one.

[@danvan2683]

@@jacobsamuelson3181 that's well said, it's ironic that these days when the sources are so much easier to access and discoverys bring us closer to the autographs than any other time, yet interest is so much lower in our time.

[@danvan2683]

@@jacobsamuelson3181 i guess I see authority as being through accuracy of dissemination on what the good news is exactly, how the spirit tugs on each of us and in what directions is more of a mystery, the spirit filled believer doing what is prompted I see as much more critical than any claims of special status. This format isn't great for getting into complex topics, I wanna have hope that Mormon or whatever we call ourselves we can recognize the puzzle pieces as they come together and become clearer, believers should see a larger picture eventually and resist the tribal nature we are prone to.

[@sidehustlergeek]

I wish you had clarified a little more about the issues of slavery that were happening in Missouri. Since you didn’t specify, I think most would assume that the church was in favor of slavery and that’s what caused the contentions. In fact, Missouri was a slave state and most members of the church were from Northern states and against slavery. By coming to Missouri in large numbers they threatened the political majority on this issue.

[@atanasiogreene8493]

Pastor Jeff you might be interested in knowing that the Community of Christ is trinitarian and doesn’t believe in eternal progression they believe in Sola fide and other Protestant doctrines and are in the world council of churches. They worked really hard to be recognized by other Christian’s as Christian’s. They have the Book of Mormon but view the Bible as the final authority and the Book of Mormon as something that they can use spiritually. But are considered by many as Christian’s. I’m not CoC or LDS I’m a Catholic Christian, I found the CoC quite interesting and love your videos, God bless brother

[@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328]

fascinating! I was wondering why there was a cross on their church. Thank you!

[@atanasiogreene8493]

@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 they also don’t use temples like LDS there’s no Freemason ritual influence like in the LDS those were solidified by Brigham young. There temple is more a large church headquarters than a place where rituals are performed.

[@atanasiogreene8493]

@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 they also have a Sola fide Sola scriptura(Bible Book of Mormon for them is just an extra spiritual text not on the same footing) view of salvation, they also have educated pastors instead of uneducated lay leaders like LDS. And they don’t believe in becoming Gods like LDS. Much more Protestant in theology just have Mormon origins and have a prophetic structure

[@atanasiogreene8493]

@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKnaoJmLg9Gmisk this an interview with there current President very humble an open to dialogue

[@atanasiogreene8493]

@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYvKc5uIaKx3ors

[@kennethcadwell2124]

I was born and raised in Independence, MO and back in the 80's the Mormon's taught the reason for the spiral structure was because when the Lord returns He is going to come down that spiral........... Also don't know if they still do this, but they use to make their members allocate a portion of their salaries to the church. As well their members had to will their property to the church instead of to their dependents or other relatives.......... It's one thing to be respectful and caring, but we are also called to expose and rebuke false teaching...........

[@brettmajeske3525]

The Spiral Temple belongs to the Community of Christ, not LDS.

[@kennethcadwell2124]

@Brett Majeske branches of the same denomination. And like I said "I was born and raised in Independence".......... LDS, Mormon, Community of Christ.......You are fooled if you think they are not the same...... As you know what the Community of Christ name was from 1872 to 2001 ??? It was the RLDS......... By the way my ex wife's dad was a member............

[@brettmajeske3525]

@@kennethcadwell2124 Many significant differences between LDS and RLDS.

[@kennethcadwell2124]

@@brettmajeske3525 not really !!!

[@brettmajeske3525]

@@kennethcadwell2124 Then I do not think you know that much, in spite of your background. The Community of Christ is far closer theologically to evangelical Protestantism than it is to LDS style restorationism.

[@carmengale3311]

Christ is our focus. I also learned more here than the 55 years in the lds church

[@jonandhannahmoses3830]

Loved your message at the end!

[@keatonr776]

Idk, I've talked to a lot of Baptists that would say heaven will be solely populated of Baptists.

[@HelloSaints]

In my 42 years in the protestant church in my six years at a Baptist seminary, I’ve never once heard a Baptist say that.

[@keatonr776]

@@HelloSaints I mean that's actually comforting to me. I like to think that most people tend towards inclusivity and kindness. I guess I should point out that 90%+ of the Baptists I've met were from a singular tiny town in Alabama, so maybe I just got to small a piece of the picture and something got colored wrong.

[@Nikki-yp4go]

I’m a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I’m a big fan of both you and Steve! I love you brothers! Thank you for the good works of God you teach through your example of love, meekness and humility.

[@rogerfederik4452]

Are you single?

[@anthonynettleton8346]

Pastor Jeff have u watched the film the fighting preacher .. its so good I love it and yes I am lds but even some of my friends who are non demoninational but they love the film too

[@logannance10]

Latter-day Saints believe Independence Missouri is the spot of the New Jerusalem. It is also near what we call Adam-ondi-Ahman which is where the Son of Man will come to the Ancient of Days as described in Daniel chapter 7. A lot of Christians and Jews believe Enoch was translated, we do too. We also believe there was an entire city taken up into heaven a long with Enoch and that at the second coming, it will return to the earth at Independence Missouri. Most Latter-day Saints look forward to the day that a temple will be built there, which to us is a sign of the imminent second coming. Lot's of weird beliefs but thanks for being respectful I love this video.

[@zionmama150]

Check out the Saints Unscripted channel. They have TONS of information about the splinter groups.

[@kristaw2686]

He's collaborated on a couple videos with them! 👍

[@bundlekeeper8133]

Have you researched the fudamentalist (usually means polygamist) Mormons? They are mostly in Utah and surrounding areas. (There is no plural marriage in the doctrines of the splinter groups In Missouri. Shows how against that belief Emma was when she refused to move out west with the LDS church and the saints). The difference in the break-off church’s in the west and those back East are like night and day.