"path of exile 2 is pay to win"

[@arcc4]

PoE is the biggest pay to win game in the industry. You support GGG and in return they give an insane amount of support and content for years and years. There is no bigger player win.

[@phoenixspirit62]

Nice try

[@ornurbaum5312]

This: it's a community pay 2 win. The community pays. Those with less disposable income buy a stash tab or nothing. Those with a lot of disposable income spend a few grand.

[@bingbong8961]

Lmao how do you win in poe, you don't it's a pve game nice try buddy

[@Baraxal1]

@@bingbong8961 Its pay to win as in you pay them, and they give you more and more game than any other company on the planet. you win cause you have a fun game. you dont win the game.

[@neppity5887]

@@bingbong8961 You win by being a PoE player in an industry full of mediocrity. Your prize is new content every 3-5 months 😁

[@HawooAwoo]

"Stop making it, you've already finished!" GGG: "We're planning to double the size of the game over the duration of early access"

[@jdev_fr]

haha, so much end game content... is it just long grindy early game content passing as endgame?

[@doryfishie2]

@@jdev_fr Even poe1 doesn't fit that description. If they copy pasted poe1's endgame over to poe2 without revamping a single thing, it's still a better endgame than d4.

[@JIN-my8ce]

​@@jdev_fryou can choose to progress your endgame content. Play what you want to play. You don't need to play all of them.

[@jcm2606]

@@jdev_fr This quite literally looks like some of PoE1's league mechanics, but streamlined and made better. _And they want to add even more endgame systems before launch._ No, it's not just long grindy early game content passing as endgame.

[@--pussypatroll--]

@@jdev_fr Nope. There is the campaign... and then you go into end game content once the campaign is finished. If you like ARPG's and have never played PoE (wtf lol)... then you don't want to miss out on PoE2. TRUST ME.

[@Blight186]

Spent $35 on tabs .... 6 years ago, been playing for 11 years.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@KUNAIfever]

@@refugeehugsforfree4151 hence i would call it Pay4QoL

[@AdminAbuse]

@@refugeehugsforfree4151 okay, keep yourself safe

[@AdarinMonk]

​@@refugeehugsforfree4151 Were you responding to someone who deleted their reply, to display how not P2W POE is, or are you quoting what P2W means to try and illustrate how 'bad' POE's P2W is? Because there are games that are way, WAY worse about it.

[@FS-ky5hk]

Spent over $3000 on POE and I feel like D4 ripped me off for $60.

[@angelgomez7081]

What?

[@kahzahm2747]

^^

[@kedolan4992]

@@angelgomez7081 He's saying that the $3000 he spent on poe was a fair trade, while the $60 he spent to buy D4 was a rip off.

[@EminemLovesGrapes]

@@angelgomez7081 🐳🐳

[@PWYTC]

@@angelgomez7081 what's not to get?

[@drakkondarkspell]

"Games don't launch with endgame content." And Grinding Gear Games took that =*very*= personally.

[@portadordelwiju]

This isnt even the launch! This is EARLY ACCESS with endgame!!

[@skyler1469]

Yep, sadly this is an anomaly We get a working game with endgame and when you want to go in early access you pay for key by buying point you might need anyways From d4 bad to d4 dead

[@michaelguth4007]

To be fair, the endgame mechanics are adapted versions of their PoE1 counterparts. Ritual, breach, expedition, strongboxes, delirium... nothing of this seems designed and built from scratch. This is not a negative critique, just an observation. I love PoE and GGG, and I am not disappointed by what I've seen of PoE2 in the slightest.

[@dianshi9152]

@@michaelguth4007 I am sure as in PoE 1 with more leagues there will come more unique Endgame mechanics and I am sure the redesign on some of them was already hard enough :D. I mean it is Early Access so it is natural that they use existing mechanics to show how the Endgame works in PoE 2. I think it is incredible enough that they did take over so many Endgame mechanics to provide a more solid Endgame for Early Access.

[@michaelguth4007]

@@dianshi9152 Yes, indeed. But if people hype this as if GGG developed all those endgame systems just for PoE2 - and I have the feeling people do this - then it appears a bit dishonest to me.

[@V2ikeAits]

nobody ever mentions the extra storage goes on sale every month and you can then buy the basic extra slot for 1$ 1 singular dollar. the people who have spent 20$ on extra storage, it's not just 1 extra tab, it's multiple special tabs, several premium tabs and a handful of normal tabs.

[@patrikpass2962]

tabs 👁👄👁

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@EdwardsComment]

​@@refugeehugsforfree4151the bot is on every comment. Brutal.

[@nathanwatkins1005]

Got everything I'll ever need for $50. 500 points remain, along with a thousand hours. GGG ftw

[@Hammer1987]

GGG: "We're making PoE 2!" *Accidentally makes PoE 3.* GGG: _"Let's just call it PoE 2. Nobody will notice."_

[@iller3]

Meanwhile, everyone trying not to talk about Team Cherry over in the corner...

[@zietznoch6822]

Never google GGG ifn you search the publisher. It could lead you to a German company famous for, well, just dont google it

[@Devon-hw6ih]

XD diablo 4 didn't have resistances for monfhs

[@LurnWell]

Some of you need to get off your knees...You'll get carpet burns. 🙄

[@ViciousKai]

@@Devon-hw6ih diablo is about as dead as blizzard is as a company

[@Cekes119]

POE skill tree is like a biblical angel "BE NOT AFRAID"

[@vyncentelwyn4304]

If only 80% of the tree was actually useful.

[@SilimSavertin]

@@vyncentelwyn4304 The year 2020 wants its criticism of the game back. Build diversity has never been bigger

[@chillax319]

The biggest thing for me that they could've add would be in-game builder that you can share on boards in-game. So I can slap someone elses build with two clicks and be done with that insane skill tree.

[@prosamis]

​@@vyncentelwyn4304 this has to be a joke, right?

[@AngelosRitter]

@@vyncentelwyn4304 tell me you never played PoE without telling me you never played it.

[@Guy-McPerson]

Path of Exile has been pay to win ever since they released their april fool's day microtransaction called Win. It was literally Pay to Win.

[@scire105]

"Just give me the game" is my whole being right now

[@Schmidteren]

Time is going to sooooo slow until it releases.

[@YuYuYuna_]

This is exactly how game releases SHOULD feel btw. Games being ready when they are actually finished and not rushed out and then the other half is sold to us as DLC.

[@darkmirror21]

​@@YuYuYuna_ the fact that this is just EA and not even all the stuff they have is actually what makes it even more insane

[@capnmoby9295]

Longest two weeks of my life

[@jasonrouse8215]

@@Schmidteren Longest 2 weeks of my life... SO FAR.

[@semihamf1385]

Let's not forget they litteraly delayed the entire game for 3 weeks just so they could perfectly transition all MTX you had bought over the last 10 years of POE1 to POE2. Not because they had to, but because they respected the players money spent enough to do so.

[@lordwolfguard5978]

and also respected the time spent. because im sure some of those players never spent a dime, but spent hours of missed birthdays and anniversaries just to get their characters perfect.

[@BicBoi1984]

Not just mtx. Stash tabs will also transfer.

[@Gadrol]

@@BicBoi1984 Stash tabs are mtx, mtx stands for microtransaction and not just limited to cosmetics

[@sebastianvega4576]

i knew about the cosmetics, but the stash tabs as well?? that is almost too good to be true. i hope they earn enough money with all of this... it is truly remarkable

[@satibel]

tbf this was mandatory at this point, they couldn't launch without the migration because it includes merging all accounts across all platforms, and doing it live would be an even bigger nightmare.

[@EmbraceMadnezZ]

I spent over $1700 on POE for 5 years. And I've never regretted it. But I still regret my stupid decision to buy the Diablo 4 expansion pack as an Ultimate Edition. It's depressing to think of myself in the past when I expected and believed even a 1% hope from Blizzard.

[@Shiftrick]

lol. i stopped believing in blizztard when they released d3. from gritty dark atmosphere of d2LOD to childish unicorn lookin smooth saying zero progression d3. fuckin buterfly killed Cain. that was a nail in a coffin for me. year later Path of Exile came out and i felt same love and dedication to game itself that i feld playing Diablo and Diablo2LOD. never looked back. never will. blizzard is a shell of a company it was. its a damn shame that money completely blindsides people. game is suppose to be told, not sold.

[@mayberry2734]

its the game similar like diablo immortal guys ?

[@KryXOXO]

@@mayberry2734better and more fun, diverse and hardcore it’s free give it a shot. I also play immortal (demon hunter) you’ll definitely enjoy this.

[@evoblix2522]

​@@mayberry2734 no you cannot buy a increase in player power ever

[@Robin...222]

​@@mayberry2734 yes

[@crimsonhawk52]

Best part of this was in the Q&A that followed when Mark basically said "this endgame is what we consider a Minimum Viable Product for an ARPG" LMAO

[@Shaltinanwenor]

shots fired ngl

[@ExiledVessel]

They been firing shots at blizzard for a while now. D2 was the number one inspiration for the company originally and since then blizzard has been entirely profit focused. And keep in mind, GGG is partially owned by tencent with a slightly different experience on chinese servers.

[@Shoderra]

​@@ExiledVessel The experience on the chinese servers is very different with regards to p2w. But it's because those servers are ran by Tencent unlike the western servers which GGG naturally run Tencent is also the majority holder of GGG with over 80% of the shares

[@RickCarleton]

@@ExiledVessel Hell, there's a node in one of the new Ascendancies called "I am the Blizzard" No, GGG.... you are so much more!

[@jrmloh]

​@RickCarleton To be fair its the Monk's Mantra for that ascendancy node where it's part of his mantra going I am the Blizzard, I am the Storm, I am the Rage,etc. But the subtle use of it being repurposed for throwing shade at Blizzard the company is also funny.

[@kethmarhkfy7luf.263]

You can buy early access for $30. It comes with $30 in cash shop money. The $480 thing is an automatic key for people who already spent that much on their account so they don't have to buy more. Which is just for publicity for them because I'm sure 99% of people who spent that much will buy more anyway.

[@doomguy4945]

It's also a sound business move to begin with. There's a reason why casinos will give high rollers some house money to start off with, just to get them on the floor.

[@UnienMcIntosh]

I'd say most of the people who spent over 480$ will also buy the 480$ pack anyways

[@nekokinds]

@@UnienMcIntosh i've spent $600 over the course of 7 years, so i do get "free" early access. i am definitely not buying a $480 pack all at once lol

[@logosloki]

@@UnienMcIntosh you don't even need to buy the 480 pack in one go. each pack discounts the 480 pack. you can buy the 30 dollar pack now and the 480 pack is now only 450, and so on.

[@xXVintersorgXx]

It's pretty easy to spend 500 dollars over 10 years of playing the same game.

[@dusan-renat]

Josh: "I play Magic: The Gathering AND Warhammer, I have two expensive hobbies." All the amateur pilots out there: ...

[@Enjgine]

I wonder if I could play MTG and Warhammer in my plane… just need a plane, magic deck, and warhammer army… don’t think that should be too expensive…

[@vicocloutier9607]

"They do not know how to stop making a game" This is very well put !

[@1_underthesun]

Even that can be done well or done poorly. GGG with PoE = Done Well. RSI with Star Citizen = Done poorly.

[@matthewcarroll2533]

Well, at least they're working for their money... unlike most companies in the entertainment industry.

[@RWxAshley]

GGG seems like the kind of company that just has "Fuck you" kinds of money thanks to the supporter packs. Kind of like how Valve can literally just sit on stuff until they have something ready to launch.

[@ignatz2]

I've completely given up on SC as a game, but the tech they're developing is mind blowing. If you think about it as a massive R&D project instead of a game then it's actually pretty ok.

[@jcfrog]

GGG: “we heard you like endgame, so we put endgame in the endgame so you can play the endgame while you play the endgame”

[@jackalakkin]

Yo dawg in this year of our lord 2024??

[@joelbaker9366]

And when you're done with the end game, there's even more end game.

[@PamdaDev]

02:43 did he say "endgame 2"?

[@Robinator1103]

If endgame is so good where's endgame 2, wait a minute....

[@Erianthor]

I can confirm that *Path of Exile* absolutely is NOT a pay to win game! I've spent 680 dollars on it thus far and I still suck at it...just in style.

[@davep5788]

😁😁👍👍

[@DC20_Art_Check]

I've spent about the same and still haven't seen a mirror in my 6k hours. Big sadge

[@Erianthor]

@@DC20_Art_Check Not at all near 6k hours, but personally I'm pretty sure I've not even seen natural 20 Divine drop for me.

[@1273dave]

exactly still looking for that first mage blood

[@leegorman3329]

what is it you have to pay for?

[@asmosisyup2557]

Just a reminder, the PoE guy did say the $30 was for the cosmetic store, but that *does* include the stash tabs as well. $30 will buy you all the 'essential' stash tabs needed to play endgame comfortably. The only reason they sound a bit nervous about "not having enough content" is they are comparing themselves to PoE1, not the rest of the industry.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

That is literally all I need to hear to want to get that basic supporter pack. Paying less than half the price of D4 to get functionally perfect stash in a game like this? Sold.

[@croustibat682]

30$ gives 300 coins, which can be used on anything.

[@twistedmezelf]

For POE1 I spend 10 on stash tabs and the other 20 on cosmetics. great buy-in model for early access

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@MrFuggleGuggle]

"PoE 2 will be launching soon...just as soon as we finish 3 more enhancement systems, 2 more classes, 16 more end game maps, 250+ new item customizations and cosmetics, and two Day-1 free expansions!" - GGG

[@DustinHarms]

This comment isn't even hyperbole, lol. They are literally planning on doubling the game during EA. 3 more acts, 6 more classes, 24 more Ascendency classes, 50+ more bosses, and even more endgame content...either brand new, or revamped spins on PoE1 stuff. They are actually insane

[@WreckTheSphere]

PoE2 is completely pay to win. You pay some money to get into the Early access and you just keep winning from the sheer amount of content.

[@mohidwaseem7997]

Nah dude, this is the new shit. I'm winning before I even begin paying with just pure hype igniting deep inside my soul. This is Win-Before-Pay.

[@Miraak1868]

Just wait until Early Access is over, in a year or so, get in for FREE !

[@Lavigator]

Pay to beta test smh. /s

[@AzoTheRed]

​@Lavigator on top of getting in, you also receive the same amount worth of coins...

[@Lavigator]

@@AzoTheRed the "/s" is for "sarcasm" :P. I have over $900 spent so I'm gonna get a key in a couple of weeks for spending >$480

[@ZaasKenar]

Chat: "The game keeps coming" Me: "So am I"

[@cckmanofsteel2393]

Diddy has entered the chat

[@EDMGmbH]

xD

[@1_underthesun]

I've been erect for 27 hours.....

[@Sintho2k]

😂👍

[@luminaxar]

13:23 Even after playing another ARPG for over a year for like a thousand hours, I still feel ripped off.. that game cost me 70 money and now has been asking for more money for an expansion that didn't properly wrap up.

[@wow123466]

GGG being like "why launch a game with season 1. lets start at season 10 instead"

[@DarthMizaru]

To be fair if they launched POE2 without the league mechanics from POE why would anyone play POE2?

[@theburgundynetwork3432]

@@DarthMizaru A lot of people think poe 1 is bloated with content. I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy a clean slate PoE with just new content. I personally like that they added some of the old league content in it, I just hope they don't add too much and leave some space for new content as well. I believe a lot of the content in poe 1 right now isn't really making the game better.

[@DarthMizaru]

@@theburgundynetwork3432 its not bloated, its poorly balanced, most of it is enjoyable but have terrible rewards.

[@mostpolitebot1464]

@@DarthMizaru To test out the new classes and the new skill system ohh and also gearing. People want to explore systems and builds and once all of those are figured out they look for something else that's why most players in poe 1 focuses on league mechanics and currency making because the base game has been figured out for the most part 👍

[@CerbearusBane]

Compare this to D4...$70 game, $40 expansion every year, $20 battle passes every couple months, on top of just as many microtransactions as PoE.

[@Tehblood]

and less game

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

@@Tehblood Vastly less, and vastly worse.

[@stevedunahugh2203]

Another $100 a year for psn if you play on Playstation

[@Nagoragama]

I mean path of exile also has battle passes every few months

[@etherlight_5526]

Less content and boring af too

[@Square_One]

I've played PoE for 11 years. Rarely spent anything, a pack here or there after every few hundred hours aaaaaand I'm up to $980

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@EnbyOccultist]

@@refugeehugsforfree4151 Those ingame cosmetics are giving too much advantage, to make it more fair GGG should disable monitor support

[@nathanwatkins1005]

​@@refugeehugsforfree4151you can wait til next year bud. Just play other f2p games til launch.

[@EivindFalken]

I spent about 300$ since 2016 or so, and I still feel like I ripped GGG off.

[@TheRazoric]

Makes you wonder how much extra money the AAA studios make if GGG has such a massive team as well. Without any greedy intentions.

[@OriginalNotFunny]

Same here

[@Ron_Jambo_]

Stockholm syndrom or sunk cost fallacy ? Because nobody should ever consider $300 a normal price for a game. No hate, but this was a crazy statement

[@sparriz]

1k + spender here and feels the same for my time and money. Slots are the least p2w that exist in the 3A games now, would it be nice if new acc came with a few premium tabs (costomizibel tabs that also makes getting into trader easier) yes, but they don't need to. Even if I had not paid for D4 and the 100h I spent in that game I would still feel ripped of, you may like that game I dont and sure as fuck wont pay for expansions etc...

[@behzatzihni]

@@Ron_Jambo_ Almost no non-competitve game in the world can reach hour/moneyspent level of poe.

[@GavrynGaming]

GGG needs to be protected at all costs

[@AMabud-lv7hy]

They already sold off the majority to Tencent

[@GavrynGaming]

@AMabud-lv7hy With a completely separate Chinese client to fully abide by their norms, Tencent is perfectly happy with their investment (and profit as PoE has done nothing but grow). Tencent has never meddled with how GGG runs their western client, the Tencent fear mongering is a weird stance imo.

[@darkmirror21]

​@@GavrynGamingyeah, i think people didn't realize tencent did that *because* they wanted control of china client. That is it. It's very profitable to leave GGG alone so why would they mess with it.

[@Malentor]

​​@@GavrynGaminglol, cope harder, ccp shill.

[@GavrynGaming]

@@darkmirror21 That's exactly it!

[@ProxCQ]

1:49 It is a little different here. The initial plan was for PoE2 to run parallel to PoE1, which meant they would all have the same content and run the same leagues. PoE1 was going to be updated to run like PoE2. Same gameplay speed, gem systems, etc. When they decided to separate the two games(I guess they realized how bad that would have been), they actually left out a handful of things for PoE2, so we are actually seeing less game than it was initially intended.

[@RoosSkywalker]

But why develop PoE 2 if they wanted to make both games the same?

[@ProxCQ]

@RoosSkywalker They didn't want players feeling like they were abandoning poe1. They said sessons would run at the same time and there was even talk about some ladders that would be cross games but that got scrapped early since it wouldn't be fair to race players on a game they have played for over a decade vs players on a new game. Also, the ascendancies were planned to be cross games. The idea was that if you played poe1 and unlocked those ascendancies there, they would become available on poe2 and the other way around, too. All that is scrapped. They had good ideas for it. They had lost their passion for developing poe1. They said that they didn't like how they were working so hard for these boss encounters just for players to cheese them with high dps builds. Jonathan's obsession with perfecting the game is what brought about poe2, and it looks like it has worked since there are over 1 million sales already for the early access.

[@rayman17420]

My favorite part of the vid was when josh 'chair' hayes took over for a minute. Dude didn't say much, but his presence was surely felt by all who were watching.

[@ericmorneau8819]

Things to remember if you're a new Path of Exile user : 1. It's free. You get the whole campaign and the end game for free. 2. Do you NEED to pay for stash expansion? No. 3. Is it helping a lot? Yes, it's highly recommended, but after "trying out" their game for about 30 hours+, paying like 10+$ (after each content expansion, they have a sale a week after, it's super cheap) is a joke for the amount of hours you can put it.

[@pingunata]

You don't need to complete the campaign. But for the end game? Yeah, you need them. Otherwise you are going to be extremely miserable.

[@xypha85]

@@pingunata not at all, was very money poor, 4 tabs was more then enough if you control your hoarding tendencies, you dont NEED them, its jsut nice, and your hundreds of hours in, you have no right at that point to complain about $10 lol

[@satibel]

from what I looked at, basically on sale, first blood (200pts) gives you enough for casual into endgame (currency, map, premium), 300 (30 bucks/beta) gives you more trading, and 500 gives you enough for basically anything you could do (except maybe getting one of each item and some huge projects). and it becomes pretty hard to justify over 90 bucks of stash tabs, so the rest would be cosmetics or maybe character slots

[@xypha85]

@@satibel personally, I tell friends this, play a league, if you get to 100 hours and like the game, go buy one of each special stash tab (maps/ currency etc) one premium (maybe just one quad premium) you won't have spent more than any other AAA game, but you will spend thousands of hours in the future. After that, It's whatever, I personally buy a supporter for each league I play more than 100 hours in, cuz well i wanna more leagues in the future. A dollar an hour for entertainment is a good guide of value, and poe is very much less than a 1$/hr most AAA games are closer to 2$/hr at 80 USD for 40 hour playthroughs. a movie is like $15/hr for another context

[@justdance77]

sorry but it's horrible without the stash space because you get too many stuff potentially useful, so many different currencies as well, they stack up

[@dyshexiia]

i remember the days where "Microtransaction" was meaning under 1$

[@MsGhoulz]

I'm just hyped that the MTXs are carrying over to the sequel. My supporter packs and skins won't go to waste. Who even heard of a company doing this? GGG certainly earned it's respect.

[@TheVenhammer]

Smite is doing the exact opposite, nothing carries over to smite 2, even though its largely the same characters, same gameplay, etc

[@kalestiyapetrovna9962]

@@TheVenhammer Yea you get currency for skins but i bet with that currency you cant buy same amount of stuff in smite 2

[@Spartan0430]

@@kalestiyapetrovna9962 you can use the legacy gems, but for only up to half of the purchase. if i'm understanding Smite's news post correctly. my reward for a decade of playing smite is a 50% discount on the things i already purchased?

[@davidskidmore3442]

Phantasy Star Online 2 did this with collected cosmetics when they did their major revamp of the game. Was pretty weird then, too.

[@EngieMak]

You won't see Blizzard doing the same thing, from what i've heard in OW2, that might be true

[@ristopaasivirta9770]

They finished the gamedev storyline and are now going through the gamedev+ content.

[@brandonwease3105]

Hey Josh, great video, random question though. I like the way your Shure SM7B Looks and was curious what you have wrapped on the bottom portion of the Mic?

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

GGG isn’t really a Gaming Company. They are charity which provides gamers with a good gaming experience for free. You can feel good about donating and supporting that mission.

[@gregsmw]

ggg are a bunch of hacks

[@ocks_dev_vlogs]

As a learning game developer, GGG is my idol. They are what I believe the industry should be.

[@gregsmw]

@@ocks_dev_vlogs you think the industry should be scammers who ignore their customer base, and promote gambling while making their games pay to win? low standards

[@omg_falafel]

​@@gregsmw I think you got blizzard and ggg mixed up

[@gregsmw]

@@omg_falafel no blizz does all that as well, but you are100% in denial if you think GGG doesnt do all of it

[@rakuwaru3619]

ppl will pay 30 bucks on fast food every other day but wont buy a 30 dollar game after spending 500 hours in it

[@stonic5]

In what world is someone spending 30 dollars on fast food... thats a full stake prawns garlic sauce chips veggies all made for you with a pint on the side. You are cooked if you spend that on fast food, like sort yah life out cooked. Same for the people here that spent 3k on poe.... you dont spend 3k without being manipulated by predatory systems.

[@Robin...222]

Food you need. A game you dont.

[@SolidSnake240]

​@@stonic5 I mean 3k over a length of time isn't bad. You easily spend tht on subscription services

[@MrSzoSs]

based EU take, i guess you're not from NA

[@Ghettoize]

500 hours that rookie numbers!!!

[@shaneanigans440]

I also feel the same about giving GGG money and im return them giving me some of the best content ive ever experienced in my life.

[@MrCapitalOrange]

I think something that may have happened is that people saw this stream, and there was no disclaimer during the supporter packs that it was purely cosmetic. People probably saw "this item erects a magical barrier around your character" or "drop a giant stone totem" and thought it actually functioned. It's a weird thing to leave out since normally they clarify that supporter packs are fully cosmetic.

[@bystander85]

Yeh, I was surprised, they have traditionally always reminded players that the packs are purely cosmetic.

[@DustinHarms]

@@bystander85 I was going to say the same. It's in every expansion reveal. Jonathan noted in the Ghazzy/DM interview that they were literally rending the presentation the night before. I wouldn't be surprised if they were so rushed they just forgot or assumed people would know by now. He seemed really surprised at how far-reaching the announcement ended up being.

[@brettmmontague]

Naw

[@robertgemes9296]

Don't worry, there are plenty of disclaimers in the actual shop where you buy them.

[@argnator]

like world famous PoE loving giga grinder Ster says: All the choices on the tree are either Health or Damage. If you die too much, choose health. If things don't die fast enough, choose Damage.

[@Uelibertiga]

Well... There is no health in the PoE2 skill tree.

[@argnator]

@@Uelibertiga Resistances and defensive stats stop your health from dropping.

[@Shaltinanwenor]

@@argnator If you die lots, be less bonkable. If you don't die, bonk harder.

[@mothbreeder641]

@@Uelibertiga Defense of any kind = health.

[@thegrouchization]

​@@mothbreeder641 Outside of cases where healing items/abilities work based on a percentage of your max health, damage reduction is often _better_ than raw health.

[@lw8882]

Best node in the family dodging skill tree is the keystone "Not picking up your phone because you're playing path of exile 2." It allows you to skip next year's christmas because they won't even bother ringing you to ask if you want to be there.

[@Isaksson9915]

I bust my back doing hard labour and during the more than 5 years it took me to get back on my feet PoE was one of those things that kept me sane. Because my income went poof I could not buy much, but what in-game stuff I did buy I never did regret. I started playing PoE at Open Beta, and still enjoy the game. Not many games I still play after a decade. I am so looking forward to 10 more years in PoE II.

[@Touchpadse]

PoE2 is what you get when the answer to every "can I" question is "Yes..."

[@No_OneV]

They listen to feedback. There were ideas i posted on the forums that got implemented later on. They actually read stuff players write.

[@TheSeth256]

The most important question remains to be answered: will there be more than 5 endgame viable builds per league, not counting slight variations. You can make a skill tree as big as you want, but if most of builds fall off hard, what difference does it make?

[@No_OneV]

​@@TheSeth256 "there so many combinations that we ourselves have no idea what is possible" There gonna be way more than 5. Even POE1 had at least 20 builds every league. 100 if you're Mathilif lmao.

[@GrandTickler]

i saved up all the money i refused to pay on trash p2w games and am now spending it on GGG instead

[@1_underthesun]

You are a gentleman and a scholar. No sarcasm.

[@Anon1370]

usually i pirate games but i bought my support pack of poe ....so i think that speaks volumes...

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@rayman17420]

I swear some people think a games p2w if they have to pay anything for it or if they can only get 99% of whats in the gane for free.. If you want to see real p2w download any pvp focused gacha and youll finally understand what p2w means while you experience whale wars irl.

[@neotek8582]

💯

[@luizfelipeveiga5905]

The crazy thing is, for PoE, even you are only happy with getting 99% of the game for free, you still should be happy with GGG monetization, because that's exactly the case. Stash Tabs aren't even 1% of the game, and cosmetics are just.... cosmetics?

These are basically entitled Karens "I want everything free and I wont give a cent" Also guess what, they don't care if you play, you are just taking server space. There are 3 types of "p2w" Power, which is the most egregious one. Time skip, getting something faster and convenience stash tabs. Convenience and time skip are slippery slopes as it encourages designers to intentionally make the game longer or inconvenient for you to pay, but something HAS to give in a vast majority of games if you want to run a business. Best thing is of course cosmetics, but running on those alone is hard because you have people like me who don't give a flying fuck about them, but I will gladly buy some convenience. Then there is an argument of capped and uncapped p2W, can you sink in 1k and still get more power out of sinking in another 1k well yea that's basically uncapped, or is the game asking of you 60€ which would be the box price anyway and that is all you can gain. They want to give a free game so it has a player base and you get to try it but they need money and as Josh said, asking for 20€ for a hobby you got to enjoy for a long time is NOTHING. Go out and do literally anything fun and see how fast you get over 20€...

[@Sniperbear13]

people always look for things to complain about. PoE2 could be 100% free where nothing is paywalled, and people would STILL bitch and moan.

[@YuYuYuna_]

I mean I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win." I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.

[@rahumor7556]

I just want to put that most of the microtransactions are purely cosmetic. They offer you no boost in abilities. My favorite items change the color of my minions, poof they are now silver. Also if you don't hoard you don't need bank tabs.... but I am a greedy dragon and keep things that are no longer useful because I 'might' need them, doesn't make me better at the game.

[@DuonDRaven]

Have played for 500 hours (rookie numbers) and spent maybe $100 in that time to get all the stash tabs and the supporter pack I wanted. Now years later that's all transferring over to POE2 as well, GGG you're the best.

[@Groskaykay]

"PoE is pay to win" was always a bold statement in my eyes. The only thing that is actually necessary, and it is only if you want to dig deep into late game, are stash tabs. Wich, on a week-end sale, would cost you what... 30 money? The rest is purely cosmetic. And i'm pretty sure that level of content is worth more than that.

[@Tehblood]

let alone supporter packs give you the same amount of point value to spend in the shop. on top of the cosmetics.

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

Yeah, precisely. 1 30$ supporter pack and you are set pretty much forever(buy tabs on sale). Little more maybe if you want extra comfort. (haven't bought tabs in a long time not sure how much exactly it comes out to)

[@YuYuYuna_]

@@HiddenStr3ngth Exactly. I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win." I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.

[@kalestiyapetrovna9962]

I'm around 4000$ in and i can say: money well spend since GGG deserve it

[@TheInverseable]

I mean, I've played a lot of poe and sale tabs are absoutly pay 2 win lol.

[@jericho1-4]

As someone relatively new to PC gaming, and a casual console gamer when I wasn't retired, I'm just getting into a lot of these arpg games cause my two teen sons (17+19 years old) got me into them over the last year or so. I'm looking forward to this game, bought all three of us EA as an early X-Mas gift and can't wait to get in there with them and grind away.

[@nexeus7302]

It's funny how this game is free to play and when they ask for "support", suddenly becomes p2w. Just think about the amount of money you have spent on things that you probably never remember, or barely remember instead of giving those guys 30$. Absolutely 100% justified support.

[@prosamis]

I've bought a lot of mtx for the sole reason of supporting GGG They've made and maintained my favorite game for a DECADE And look what they did with that money! Now I want to give them even more, honestly

[@Shaltinanwenor]

@@prosamis big same tbh I've been playing every league like clockwork since, like, 2013? (2.0. Played a bit before, but much less in depth) and am probably solidly in the 10k+ hours played. (I don't even want to know the actual number) As long as the game makes me happy, I'll give it money, when it stops making me happy, I'll stop playing (and giving money), it's as simple as that in the end

[@xypha85]

@@prosamis right!, POE, the only game where I feel guilty I cant afford to buy the $480 supporter pack because they have 100% earnt that shit over the last decade. (I already spent 520). Meanwhile, I feel ripped the fuck off having played d4 for a hundred hours, and i didn't even buy it, someone else did for me... stole 100 hours of my life i'll never get back.

[@prosamis]

@xypha85 THIS lmao I actually feel so compelled to buy that pack but I can't I hope I'll reach a point in life where I can do that without losing my life savings

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@Atlas_Found]

I think all of the talk about p2w is lowkey kinda good. It tells me that poe2 is actually reaching a new audience. If it were just poe1 veterans this conversation wouldn't be happening because we know better.

[@GamingBT]

That's a really good point.

[@ANDELE3025]

No, vets know that playing without currency, maps and shards tabs you are in "trial/demo", functionally unplayable the same way D4 is as a "service" as activision wants to lie about it for anyone that actually tries to get any value out of that 60 or 70 bucks neoblizz scam.

[@jersonbran]

That makes no sense when its veterans that are pointing out the necessity of some of those stash tabs.

[@Atlas_Found]

@@jersonbran From where I'm standing all the p2w "controversy" started during the reveal stream when they were going over the supporter packs. Many of the cosmetics look like they have some sort of gameplay advantage. If you go back and watch the official stream you'll see people spamming "p2w" in the chat, even though stash tabs weren't mentioned once. It was after the stream that long-time players of poe clarified how the cosmetics work and that stash tabs are the only micro transactions with an ingame advantage. There was a series of events that took place and the conversation evolved. You seem to have latched onto the end point, ignoring what brought us here.

[@jersonbran]

@@Atlas_Found I started from the conversation shown from Josh's chat in video, not of official path of exile livestream. If there are two discussions going on that come to the same conclusion, one going of the perception of value in cosmetics or incorrect info that [the cosmetics are not just cosmetics], the other from a argument some stash tabs are mandatory and something about the shop i dont understand, the reasoning of one argument doesnt invalidate neither confirm the other. But the amount youtubers specialized in path of exile that do state certain stash tabs are mandatory does back up the point in the end.

[@ShiraNexus]

Campaign/story-wise do i need to play the 1st one though? or is it will be seamless transition like HL2 Anniversary?

[@redfish337]

We don't know yet. But it's free so why not try it?

[@redfish337]

That said, PoE is pretty light in terms of plot. It's not Dark Souls, but it's in a similar vein where a lot of lore is through item descriptions, etc. What you'd probably most get from a playthrough of PoE1 is a feeling for the worldbuilding and factions. The endgame doesn't add much in terms of story- and has in fact been rewritten multiple times for major patch releases. Not very much is retconned. To get this story you'd have to play a lot of time for very little story, but I don't think it will be very relevant to the main plot of PoE2. It might be connected to PoE2's END GAME though.

[@TehHeiks]

the p2w comments are just troll tbh. You can not buy character power, simple as that.

[@snotgoblin]

You also can't buy knowledge, which is the key to winning in PoE - knowing your build and how to make it stronger.

[@willo1345]

I do think its a bit pay to win, but I don't think its egregious. They are very fair with stash tab prices and they are even making it carry over between games. I would definitely agree to free to play games adopting this type of system as long as they don't purposely fill your bank up with trash to force you to buy extra tabs like some Korean MMOs have been doing.

[@Lucas-sk5iy]

@@willo1345 that's not ptw, there's no "winning", it's not a competition.

[@wuttut3276]

@@willo1345 It's not, the comment above just explained why. You cannot buy character power, therefore it's not pay to win. Just because a game has microtransactions doesn't automatically mean it's p2w. That's not what p2w means.

[@ChaoZzBladex]

@@Lucas-sk5iy i always find it funny that it is called pay to win since you basicly shorten your time on a game eergo your paying to lose even if you could buy a perfect build in the store whats the point of it, than there is no need to farm anything since you allready have the perfect build

[@TME555]

The only thing thats upsetting here is that the artbook is gated behind the top tier pledge. Don't care for most of the stuff included there but damn do I want that book :v

[@KBird204]

Yeah me too, especially since I want to do concept art. I plan on getting or upgrading to it eventually, but I hope they consider selling it standalone

[@AmerMerzZz]

Keep in mind new shipment fees outside of the US are crazy

[@Ettenbuettel]

@@AmerMerzZz very true... had to pay about 20 euro more to get my new t-shirt which is more than the t-shirt cost itself but hell I want this t-shirt. That said, you can choose to change t-shirt in ingame currency, so they give you always a good alternative.

[@newax_productions2069]

Just buy it slowly, these packs are going to be around 6 months minimum more likely to be around 8-10 months

[@LikeACrouton]

I imagine they'll also sell the art book separately. The first one is on Amazon, sold direct from amazon themselves not a 3rd party.

[@Mr_Jumbles]

This is what happens when you listen to the

[@ImTheWinningest]

People saying POE is pay to win simply have no idea what they are talking about.

[@willo1345]

I think it is but I don't think its bad in POE. Its very fair in POE. I like to be consistent with my view of monetization because I see a lot of people call games with monetization p2w unless they like it and will find any way to reason how it isn't p2w. Just look at lotro defenders, you can literally buy instant teleports to quest objectives that have been purposely separated to be as inconvenient to reach as possible to entice you to buy more currency. You can even just straight up max legendaries with hundreds of dollars, but they will try to move heaven and earth to convince you that, no, its actually not p2w. The real answer is that it IS p2w but they love the game so they can't admit that it is.

[@angelgomez7081]

It is but the game is great so it doesn’t matter

[@thesea251]

alternatively, they just have a different definition of an incredibly nebulous term. personally, i would count it as p2w, but i count almost everything as p2w and care much more about the impact of the paid content on the game.

[@gaborfabian3967]

If the game had a box price but came with more stash tabs would that make it less p2w? At least right now you get to play the game for quite a while before you need to spend any money on it, so you can decide if it's worth the $ or not.

[@YuYuYuna_]

@@willo1345 PoE isn't P2W though. You can literally play through the entire game if you wanted to without buying anything. Now does having a handful of extra tabs and the specialty tabs like currency, maps, etc. help? Yeah, but guess what? I've spent $60 total on PoE and I've been playing for 8ish years. Only purchase I've ever made was the $60 supporter pack back in Delve league and I got a sick glowing blue armor set and I used the $60 of points they give you to buy a currency tab, 2 premium tabs, a map tab and spent the rest on basic normal tabs. Same price spent as a AAA game and I haven't had any reason or need to buy more. PoE isn't pay to win because you can play the game through all, if not, the majority of the end game perfectly fine. I was playing the game for like a year and a half (sparingly) before buying that $60 supporter pack using that poe acquisition desktop app that was janky. To me I didn't know if I actually liked the game so I used that app instead of premium tabs. It worked just fine. You could get away with spending even less if you wanted to. You could just buy the map and currency tab and maybe 1 premium tab and you'd be set for what the average experience level PoE play would experience. The fact that you can play through the majority of the game including well into red maps before truly feeling the restraint of the 4 starter tabs they give you is a sign the game is good and fair. They don't hinder you for not continuing to financially support either. As I said I spent $60 like what, 7 years ago now and I have the exact same player experience as someone who's spent thousands or tens of thousands.

[@allenmoore530]

I have spent around 2500 USD on poe and have 8529 hrs in the game. That comes out to 29 cents per hour. I would say that is very good value to money spent.

[@magischzwei]

I just checked my local cinema. 18€ for a 1.5 hour movie.

[@dallorian5621]

354 usd for 30k hours played (since 2013), sounds like a good deal

[@biohead66]

40 dollars for 12 k hours of Diablo 3.

[@justdance77]

coping

[@justgoogleit7879]

What is all this bragging about how much you spent in a game that you're obsessed. You can literally waste all your life playing it, but still is just a game with 40 to 50 hours content, after that you just go in circles with another class. So let's do the math 50 hours for 1€ per hour is 50€, that's the game worth, for every league that you play you could drop a 10€. Played it had my fun with it and never spended more then 100 €.

[@QuangLe-qk3nv]

8:15 I agreed 100%. People who complain and said POE and POE2 is P2W. They have no idea what P2W is. On a scale from 0 to 10. POE and POE2 is like a 0.2 or 0.5. Meanwhile. Games like Lost Ark, Maplestory, Raid Shadow Legends. Those games are like 100.

[@ZackeroniAndCheese]

2:20 I couldn't disagree more. I want as much content as possible. I'll wait longer for the most epic game ever instead of a feature stripped husk like Diablo 4.

[@Seydaschu]

Something worth pointing out about Path of Exile's monetization: none of it is consumable! No subscriptions, no rentals, no timed boosts. (season pass is a bit debatable though) It's either cosmetics which you'll never have duplicates of, or stash space which can be reused forever. ... Except for an April Fools joke involving fireworks, in which that was exactly the joke.

[@redfish337]

There is actually one. I hope they get rid of it. But unfortunately it seems to be hard to get rid of things that already exist. That's the regular item transmog. That should just be a normal feature of the game.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@theirishviking9278]

@@refugeehugsforfree4151 stash tabs fall under that description like half of one of my default tabs are just the "currency" items

[@JWalker-FireFrost]

People spend thousands on star citizen and you can't even play the game 90% of the time .

[@Yatta317]

Maxing out the family dodging skill tree is OP. Nobody expects me to show up for anything. But when I do choose to actually show up, everyone gets super excited. Basically a celebrity.

[@iamjustkiwi]

Get a better family if you have to dodge them to enjoy your hobby.

[@Yatta317]

Nah, it's not like that

[@Speak2Soon]

We've been apart from fully made games on release so long, that this normal amount of a game feels bad to people? We've gone backwards.

[@ultimateflyful]

This kid is beyond his years. Read this comment again in 20 years and you will see how right you are

[@brQdfrQd]

Normal? Name one game that released with this many endgame systems. The reason PoE2 can do it is because they are sequal systems from PoE1.

[@senjusan6359]

Bro, almost no game in existence has as much content as PoE 2 in EA.

[@markobucevic8991]

​@@brQdfrQdi doubt about systems but content wise elden ring is up there

[@MunitionsDudTester]

A nice touch is you can take your time upgrading your supporter pack over the 6+ months of EA. No pressure to drop a lot of money at once.

[@Peanutfiendsblog]

There are D4 fans angry in the comments bashing POE players and it's silly. A lot of us POE players also play D4, and we all know the game is stale. Blizzard can use a kick in the ass to make D4 better and POE2's competition will light a fire at Blizzard. The realmwalker season is ROUGH.

[@Tehblood]

unless poe actually notably hurts their monetization numbers, they wont change.

[@killbabies0341]

Are there D4 fans? 70 dollar base price, season pass, paid expansion, and tons of cosmetic nickel and diming. That's before we get to the terrible campaign, boring low effort end game and seasons. Microsoft and blizzard only care about squeezing money out of players not providing any meaningful content.

[@ANDELE3025]

Irony is, mid stream people argued me wanting PoE2 to improve its clarity (and the necessity of the currency, maps and _insert_third_tab_depending_on_playstyle_or_quadstack_) of store value/remove its dark pattern cycle, promo of the basic tab and allow stackable items to fully stack in inventory as they should is "shilling for D4". The point is that those are things that remind new players of the shitshow that is the actiblizz scam/is on the same level of petty cash nipping when GGG doesnt need to do any of it to turn a profit.

[@Peanutfiendsblog]

@@Tehblood You're probably right, I just hope they steal some stuff from POE2 at the very least. The best thing in D4 so far IMO is the Eternal Hordes, it's actually more fun than other Endless Arena modes in Last Epoch and Grim Dawn. More stuff like that would vastly improve the game. They don't even have to be that original.

[@Tehblood]

@Peanutfiendsblog i meann they stole the league/season idea. which is a good idea to take. by all means I don't wish for diablo to be bad. I'm just way past having any confidence in actiblizz actually listening to players and doing the right things.

[@thedant0r85]

Josh's 10-years-old-hyped-for-this-game face impressions are sooo damn wholesome :D

[@Raii_Chu]

Anyone that attempts to call Path of Exile 1 or 2 pay2win needs to have their Opinion License revoked and mandated to attend Critical Thinking classes.

[@Wizowtreestump]

So, I played my first league of PoE with Settler's. I'm laid off, so I can't justify spending money at all, but I did buy an extra stash tab and premium tab for a total of $15. I have several toons at 95 and a CI LS Trickster at 98 with a 500d+ build and all i have left to finish the content this league are the Ubers which I will do this weekend. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to win because all the things you purchase are cosmetic or QoL features. It's not P2W at all.

[@cckmanofsteel2393]

What was your best farm? I'm a harvest Andy and bored of it.

[@Wizowtreestump]

I watched the divine trade an flipped a lot. Power runes as well. For example, I have a power rune up for sale for 520c on Faustus. If I were to sell it as soon as I got it, it's only 400c. I did the same with divines. As for currency farms, Catarina with Betrayal, Betrayal Intelligence and reinforcement scarabs coupled with a harvestr scarab and doubling scarab. This worked out well. Also, Harbis with three harbi scarabs, Regency and warhoard. Third, harvest with cornucopia, doubling, lineage and dusk fragment for quantity and pack size. All three running blue altars. I also farm Flesh and Flame and light of meaning jewels. With flipping, I might spend 100d a day to make 150 over three days with Faustus. I only run t16 8mods, City Square, Glacier and Strands. I sell all my t17's to guildies at .5 divine each even if at bulk. Saves times in the long run having to fuck with the site or TfT's discord.

[@AklyonX]

Congrats on the soon-to-be 40/40 (if thats the last challenge you need), or just to a Did Everything league in general!

[@johnvlg01]

Never been more comfortable n willing on spending $480 for a game...........thanku GGG for giving us a sequel to our beloved game n its crazy to think this may be bette than its predecessor n more that its just the beginning.....WERE BACK!!

[@pingedarrowldj9015]

12:39 is how i feel after i spend money on Warframe for different things because they interact with the community and pit a lot of effort into their story updates even if the items are just cosmetic or getting something earlier without grinding bc its hard to grind as much now

[@occy127]

All you need now is to buy more hours in the day to actually play it.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@Aeqstaw]

It's closer to pay to lose, because the more MTX you buy the worse your performance gets lol

[@Thighndwich]

There was one skill which was impossible to use without mtx, I'd not be surprised if they fixed it tho.

[@siamahnamte1438]

So true lol.. some mtx just crash my wooden PC🤣

[@RANDOMpercentage]

PoE already got rid of the most P2W micro-transaction that they had. Can you believe that they once sold an item that you could use to immediately win? They used to sell "Win Fireworks" that you could use to celebrate winning. I don't know how you can get more Pay to win than that.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Let them Revision history. Shills literally being paid to lie. "It's not P2W guys!" Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@ThePlatinumx]

GGG is great. playing poe since 2014 and i bought cosmetics multiple times just because i wanted to support them. i never felt scammed, they were never greedy and they never disappointed me. in GGG i trust

[@MrNorker77]

Imagine it being in reverse, your mom uninviting you from christmas because she and dad found a new engaging online game to play

[@arckmage5218]

It's called Facebook. They've been playing it for years.

[@fmalch1209]

My parents aren't that cool.

[@hkrause6565]

That would be fantastic.

[@gatorbait9385]

I would be so frickin happy for them

[@Andromediens]

imagine if GGG had the budget of Rockstar and the number of devs of Activision. They'd have made the biggest f*cking game ever, which would require 99999 hours to finish. PoE2 will probably stay as the longest game in terms of length for the next 7-10 years.

[@leafgreenbeast]

i love that josh goes "they heard people complaining about no endgame and took that very personally", and then they literally come and say EXACTLY the same thing

[@Karasellers-jg3bp]

I hope this clicks for me, I wanted to like PoE but much like Warframe the games systems are so all over the place and the gameplay is just off enough I end up burning out on it after a while and don't want to play anymore.

[@Jaguar-s7f]

Its hyper focus on rng crafting is what turned me off

[@Donovarkhallum]

How are Warframes systems all over the place?

[@dhxmg]

Same, I miss 3.13 harvest :

[@sgtkwan]

poe is not an esay game but if you do get good at it the game the payoff is youll be able to pick up any other video game that revolves around you making a build and doing damage and do well in it.

[@gruntmaster1]

Gem sockets have always been my biggest issue with PoE.

[@DarkWr4ith]

The reason POE has so many end game mechanics is that it does not expect you to engage with all of them all at once. Kind of just to focus on a few every leauge. It lets you change things up every time you come back to it or find a few you like and stick with them. Also different builds do better with different mechanics, some builds are very good at some and very poor with other end game mechanics. So you can engage with the mechanics best suited to you at the time.

[@Sciss0rman]

Every single person screaming p2w has never played the game, or failed to understand it.

[@Vladimir_Fedorov27]

Nah, they just want the same div numbers as the streamers with tabs have, even though there is no point in competition between players in a PvE game AND they could still have those numbers, it's just harder to do, even though still possible with trade chat, and now - ingame currency exchange.

[@Zefar77]

If you plan to play PoE for a long time you NEED extra stash tabs. The amount of items you'll find and materials you'll get will just fill the basic ones up without any problems. You can't store anything because you won't have the space. While it's not pay2win it's a cost that you need to shelf out. How much though? Probably around $40 to $60 in total.

[@NoobTotalWar]

I think that, on top of cosmetic microtransactions, the fact that they charge for a simple quality of life improvement like the stash expansion, is the perfect model for free to play games. It prevents the game from being pay to win yet still encourages most players to spend at least a little bit of money to support the game studio. Imagine how many great free games there would be if they followed this model

[@DustinHarms]

The funny thing is, most people that have bought EVERY SINGLE specialty stash tab, and often a few extras, average money spent is around $60-70. The math just works out so perfectly. And by the time you've even figured out what all those tabs are for, you're hundreds of hours into the game. I'm over 2,000 hours since 2014, and I've spent $63 on stash tabs. I have every single one, 4 quads, and another 4 regular. They put them on sale constantly. People complaining about this literally don't know what they're talking about, or have impossible standards that no-one in the gaming industry could live up to.....because there wouldn't be a game industry. Turns out, to make these amazing products, it requires the consumer to pay a fee. Mindblowing, I know.

[@choconnects]

Item trading and stash behind a paywall actually prevents bots. Same logic gw2 and worked like a charm.

[@RanuliiaUvU]

Warframe, completely 100% free to play, you can buy slots just by trading to other players for plat without spending a dime. The only thing that costs money are skins, but dulux skins are also completely free if you trade

[@jameslambertus5820]

No, it is not. QoL features like extra stash tabs or trading should not be locked behind paywall. MTX should be pure cosmetics, nothing else.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@billbadson7598]

I only played a moderate amount of POE1 (in early access for POE2 right now). The only thing that (I think?) could reasonably be said to be "pay to win" in my view would be purchasing a premium tab or two so you can sell items in the online marketplace. It doesn't give you a crazy advantage, since you still have to meet up to trade in game (which you can do anyway by spamming trade chat) but it's an extremely useful QoL upgrade for selling loot. Additionally, things like more inventory tabs and something like the very helpful Resource Tab (for all your orbs to stack super high instead of individual stacks of 30) are also very nice in terms of QoL. But none of it gives you stronger gear or more powerful characters or sped up leveling or anything like that.

[@DannyOE4]

I was literally just saying this yesterday about how GGG monetizes PoE is possibly one of the best way to do it in the modern gaming age. However, it is pretty objectively agreed that the stash tabs are considered PtW. But like you said, after a couple hundred hours of playing the game and realizing how good it is, you feel almost compelled to support them and buy some tabs.

[@Bunchofnumbers04128]

It's not P2W (I assume this is a clickbait title). It's Pay to Play, that is to say, it's not F2P, it's a normal for-sale game, but. But. We'll get to why it's doing it in a scummy way. Warframe is the most well monetised F2P game - nothing is limited (not even the newest cosmetic skins) and you can sell things that you find in game to other players for the premium currency you might want (but don't need). That's an actual solution for the modern age. You can't buy power in Warframe though (i.e. you can't port it right over - but basically: match those who want to pay money with those who want pay with time or luck, take a cut). PoE isn't really F2P at all: endgame (the actual content of the game that you're playing it at all to get to) is intentionally limited to an almost malicious level, with items stacking to 10, 20, heavily limited progression (can't keep items around), systems like trading made intentionally difficult, and with no way to fix it without paying. Sure, you can get off affordably enough "for the hours", but to me, that's not a business practice I can support (not to mention, this is a nonsense argument for a game genre based around grinding - ANY of the games are a phenomenal value then). It feels quite deceptive. Can you even reasonably trade without a premium tab in 2024 yet? I'll be playing PoE 2 until the end, then uninstall it if it's still just a free trial mode until you pay $30+. Not because I don't have $30, but because I can't support that kind of bait-and-switch. Be honest, charge up front, or don't charge, and actually try to make it F2P. Look at Warframe, people can buy others premium currency that can then be traded - that's the actual solution, not nickel-and-diming people for what should be basic game services. Don't do this asian-MMO thing of "oh we're F2P" (but you'll be a peasant, you can't even do half of the activities), it's dirty and unfair. ______________ I do like the amusing skirting around the massive monetization issues with calling it "F2P" displayed in the video here, saying that you can complete everything up to end-game without paying, while watching a video specifying that they're skipping even making that content for now* because nobody's actually playing for that stuff - they're playing for end-game (which is what the game actually is/when you've actually unlocked your character and features). So yes, you can play the first three chapters, but you can't actually play the game. * kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKGsk5SKja93ask "Path of Exile 2: Endgame Content Reveal"

[@Bunchofnumbers04128]

TL;DR It's Not P2W, but it's not F2P either. It's a free first 25 hours trial, but you can't actually play your roster of characters into endgame because it's designed to stop F2P getting further than just a taste of end-game. Endgame is where they spend all of their development time. A sprinkle of free "What D3 should've been"-crack, just a small baggie's worth. Then you have to pay for the rest. Or just uninstall it.

[@DannyOE4]

​@@Bunchofnumbers04128 God forbid you ever have to pay money to play a video game. If a game was ever REALLY FtP, it wouldn't be as good as PoE is. Not even close. You can spend an amount equal to or less than a full price AAA game and get plenty of stash tabs, if not all of them, some premium tabs for easier trading and some fun cosmetics. ANDDDDD be able to come back to it anytime without needing to spend more on expansions/DLC. Compare that to actual AAA games where you pay full price for a shit game worth 40 hours of play-time at most, then they try to sell you cosmetics for $25 on top of that, with battle passes, make you pay for expansions (PoE does not). Not to mention all your purchases from PoE 1 are transferring to PoE 2, so any money you've invested already is doubling in game-play value now. The same people that bitch about this stuff probably buy golden gun skins for a game they've bought 7 times over the last 10 years because OMG BRO CoD BlOps 17 shoot that guy oh no he shot me lol where we dropping boys?!?!?!?! I've spent about $550 bucks on PoE, which seems like a lot, but when you account for the 3500 hours I have in the game, that's still a better dollar per hour rate than any 1-off single player game I've ever played. GGG are making genuinely good games compared to the complete and utter garbage we get normally these days and I don't regret a single penny. You're welcome to your opinion though. Put your money where it makes you happy. Just don't sit here and pretend like they're even close to the shit AAA devs get away with.

[@newax_productions2069]

If you consider stash tabs p2w then you don't know what pay to win is. end of story.

[@DannyOE4]

@@newax_productions2069 Just because it's not as egregious or obvious as in other games, doesn't mean it doesn't count. If you wanna race to world's first lvl 100 in a new PoE league with no stash tabs, you're gonna have a bad time. If you wanna be able to trade items easily(say this somewhat loosely) like everyone else but you're not buying premium tabs, it's gonna be harder and take more time. The fact that we're arguing if it's truly PtW or not, I think speaks to the incredible monetization nature of the game as a whole. Of all the PtW BS in games nowadays, I'll take this over any of them.

[@onewingedangelo1611]

This is so funny... people are going "this game is pay to win because I have to pay money for early access" ..... When you pay 30$ you get 30$ of in game credit... to literally buy the only thing that would matter in PoE/PoE2 bank space. And offers you more than 30$ worth of game. Damn... What a horrible company.....

[@Tehblood]

almost any time ive wanted anything from the shop i bought a supporter pack and got a bunch of bonus stuff.

[@iamjustkiwi]

I suspect its people pushing back against the paid early access, which is the only trend I've seen gamers enraged about i kind of agree with. Gamers generally struggle with fomo but in cases of competitive games and races i think the concerns are valid. If they wipe progress before the general public starts than itd be a different story but a few days of the hardest of hardcore playing before anyone else does indeed give them an insane advantage in crafting and farming

[@Tehblood]

@@iamjustkiwi poe2 ea will not only be a reset when release happens. the ea characters won't even go into the release standard league.

[@iamjustkiwi]

@@Tehblood not surprised to hear that knowing GGG, but it's pretty rare for that to happen nowadays sadly

[@Tehblood]

@@iamjustkiwi with all the compatible mtx transferred and everything else. yeah. it's kinda fucked how ggg being decent, if not good. is surprising. compared to most of the gaming industry these days

[@dnaseb9214]

Ya I played POE1 and never spent anything. Didn't feel like I needed anything.

[@YuYuYuna_]

I'm living proof that PoE isn't "pay to win." I spent $60 on the "Master Soulstealer Pack" in 2018 and that's the only purchase on my account. I paid the equivalent of a AAA game price (actually less since AAA is now $70-80) and I haven't spent a penny since. If the game was P2W then I should have had to re-up and pay again and continue do to so. For a game that some people like to call P2W it's strange how I've managed to get away with only spending $60 on it in over 8 years of playing.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

Pay to win (P2W) refers to a gaming model where players can gain advantages or progress faster by spending real money on in-game purchases, such as powerful items or exclusive content. This practice often creates an imbalance in gameplay, favoring those who are willing to spend more money.

[@A._is_for]

2:15 did he say the cowgirlians need us to do what now? 😮

[@newax_productions2069]

Kalgurran's

[@Kuzka_]

@@newax_productions2069 Cowguurl. It cannot be unheard.

[@drakeboorhoes1131]

I love cowgirlen style

[@bewilder210]

The funny thing is, even if you isolate PoE 2 from PoE 1 monetary system, and say its a full fledged pay to play 60$ game with 30$ early access (a total of 90$). It still has more depth and content than D4.

[@dominiorrr6510]

The best way to describe playing without stash tabs is playing a free trial. You won't need more inventory space till the very endgame and during the endgame the player can decide whether they like the game enough to spend XYZ money on it. It's a clever strategy imo. Some people expect the game to be truly Free-To-Play though and I can't blame them for disliking this aspect of the game.

[@ANDELE3025]

Twas exactly my argument. But the issue is in PoE1, bulk of the campaign is filler (90% of people that played since release or hideouts/masters or fossils or delve or synthesis or pick any random point dont even bloody know what the lore of the gems is, why scion is where she is when new players unlocked her or even that she isnt there as a choice from the start, what the order side plot is and most maybe start to pay attention when sin and innocence get introduced due to mandatory yap sessions or know about the bandits more than the vaal simply because the points matter and vaal associates to the orbs, the instant lifesteal ks or the kill-charge-variant of gems), almost all dropped resource items dont stack or stack at most up to 20 despite them being able to go to massive amounts (hell just finishing the campaign while vendoring drops with no recipies or care you will end with the basics in the 8000~3000s depending on usage) and have been able to since the beta and the stores being set to make people without someone that understands whats good (and when to buy it) to pinch pennies/scam for cash that GGG doesnt need as people are willing to pay for the supporter packs AND CW stated way back a few times that the supporter packs and visuals are the main revenue source; yet nobody wanted to acknowledge any of it.

[@davidskidmore3442]

The currency tab, followed by skills, potions, and maps tabs, are so incredibly useful if you're going to play long term. That said, they're all on sale like every other weekend, so easy to get for cheap.

[@refugeehugsforfree4151]

So P2W.

[@dominiorrr6510]

@@refugeehugsforfree4151 Pay-To-Play if anything

[@Tuxfanturnip]

​@@refugeehugsforfree4151is Doom(1992) pay to win because you can't play past the first episode without paying for the game?

[@Monique-iz8lp]

I never got into POE because it felt too overwhelming after it's been out for a few years. POE2 seems overwhelming before it's even out, can't say I'm shocked lmao.

[@RG32822]

There is a lot more info in-game to teach you. You can click any underlined term in a tool-tip and it'll bring up a new tool-tip explaining it to you.

[@Takeshi607]

first game, I gave up after looking at the skill tree, and how often i hear things like "how can i fix my build" and the solution is "make a new character" I'll probably just stick with grim dawn and last epoch for now

[@BINGSHOT97]

@@RG32822 Bro that requires effort how dare you suggest such a thing.

[@senjusan6359]

You won't need to create new character in PoE 2 if you fuk up your build. Respecs will be cheap, unlike in PoE 1, so stop crying

[@takumifujiwara9181]

Yup unless they fix this its not going to draw in the casual audience and thats not really a problem not every game has to be for everyone. Also get ready for the veteran player replys of "its not that complicated bro"

[@mrvad3r198]

if it making you angry remember u can spend 70$ on veliguard

[@Tentacl]

I completely agree about your P2W assessment. Also, as a brazilian I'm VERY thankful they are using regionalized monetization. This allowed me to buy the USD 100 version for less than half because my local currency and economy are really in bad shape now, but mind you, this is a F2P game and I could pay nothing, but at this rate they allow me to both pay and not feel like I'm making a bad money decision (like with the USD 100 versions of D4 and Starfield I also bought but gave me cognitive dissonance).

[@toshee2791]

We pay for a better game, now take my money

[@coreyrachar9694]

The reason support packs exist is because there are a lot of people like me who noticed they had played the game for literally 1000's of hours without paying more than a couple dollars for stash tabs and then also realizing it's one of the best games that exist. It's literally there for people who want to support the company and see more awesome stuff (like poe2) in the future. This is one of the only f2p/microtransaction business models that I would wholeheartedly support and feel like they deserved every penny.

[@aarontyler69]

Remember EVERYTHING carries over to Poe2 that you've unlocked. All stash tabs, vanities "pets, armor, portals etc." I agree this game isn't "pay to win" except for stash tabs, which as you mentioned are not really needed, but a HUGE boon to have. I also personally think if they didn't add as much content that they are, people would whine it's too short.

[@Mr15moss]

I have like 300hours in. Never paid a dime. Not even bank expansion. 😂

[@Percival-98]

well with the EA you'll be able too!

[@Mr15moss]

@Percival-98 nah I will wait .

[@Percival-98]

@@Mr15moss fair enough!

[@kyle9401]

If or when you do decide to buy something, I highly recommend getting some sort of pack instead of just buying the mtx currency. That way you get the mtx currency to buy tabs AND a bunch of mtx to deck your guy out. It's a way better deal. Hold out for a cool pack and then wait to buy tabs until a sale!

[@cckmanofsteel2393]

300 hours without a currency or quad tab? Sir...haha I promise you it is worth it if you can afford it.

[@LC-pp4bb]

I bought the $480 for both me and my son, we LOVE PoE. Can't wait till PoE2!!!

[@anomonyous]

You realise that PoE has a PEGI 18+ rating, right dad? Hope you're playing it with him.

[@LC-pp4bb]

@@anomonyous LMAO

[@MrMuricon]

Bank tabs? You mean Resident Evil 4 inventory simulator. We usein Tetris in this house

[@noobtastic-really]

As an aside, the POE 2 early access supporter packs are no different than the other supporter packs GGG have put out for POE 1. The only difference is that in this new set of supporter packs, you get POE2 early access with it. I do think its important to mention that the early access is meant for testing the game and GGG being able to fix things and make adjustments so that things are in a good place when POE 2 officially releases. And POE2 will be free to play when it releases.

[@RickCarleton]

Whats more, along with the money spend for access, you get as credits for microtransactions. There is no fee *just* for access, you get access AND microtransactions. It's insanely fair.

[@xypha85]

@@RickCarleton yea this point I think has gone severely underrated, the key is still free in the monetising scheme they have, you get the points of a $30 spend to use like you would normally, in addition to a key. its actually kinda crazy tbh, like bruh, guys, you can exploit me a little, cuz right now you got me feeling like im exploiting you., like you can pull my hair a little if you want lol

[@RickCarleton]

@@xypha85 Yeah.... I really feel like I'm getting way too much from GGG than the other way around. Which is why although I almost never buy MTX but from GGG, I'm willing to do so. It's that goodwill that makes them so well respected and that should be the gold standard for other gaming companies.

[@xypha85]

@@RickCarleton for me, played games like genshin for hundreds of hours, and gave them 0, ive never paid for anything in mtx on mobile phones, or games like genshin, it always feels awful to even think about, meanwhile, ive skipped at least 2 meals to give GGG money over the years lol

[@RickCarleton]

@@xypha85 This is the way :D