Perfect FIT or Total FAIL??? 190mm Rear Shock for Mongoose Ledge X1

The new Mongoose Ledge X1. I've upgraded the bike in 2 stages thus far, and while I used the factory 165mm shock length in my upgrades many have asked if a 190mm rear shock would fit. In this video I give a 190mm DNM Air Shock a try. The results are surprising! Check it out and comment below with your opinions.
Shocks used in this video:
DNM 165mm Coil Rear Shock - amzn.to/3yKW62E
DNM 165mm Air Rear Shock - amzn.to/2U5TspJ
DNM 190mm Air Rear Shock - amzn.to/3eaypZX
See the ledge at Walmart: kzbin.info?even...
My previous Ledge X1 build: • Making a Walmart Bike ...
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#mongoose #ledgex1 #kevcentral

[@Unboxedvids]

Any other Engineers in here see the rear seat stay is a 2 force member acting below the center pivot joint and realize from the very beginning that in this format going over bumps will apply tension to the shock instead of compression? I instantly saw that and realize that if he sat on the bike he would not get any travel out of the shock because the shock is so big it makes the system pull on it instead of compress it because of the new geometry of the bike. It would also push against the weak center if the rear shock and make it bien and buckle due to large external bending moment. Just food for thought.

[@TheWrigle]

Yeah, pretty obvious that when force is applied to that linkage it isn't gonna drive the shock down, but rather buckle in and pull on the shock. Not really what you want to see.

[@kevinvandeventer8690]

100%. I was like that will not work.

[@tinkerbike2510]

Noticed it too 😂

[@alecswanson8844]

I was too busy noticing the friction on the rear linkages. On my bike with the shock removed the linkages would fall from gravity with a clunk. Mine wouldn't stay where I moved it and stay. (if it ever didn't move freely it would get me bearings it a bunch of lube)

[@michaelbrashear6308]

Yes, it was really hard to stay in the video the moment i noticed the upper rear pivot dropped below the main rocker arm pivot

[@BMOutdoorz]

Is called overshocking, it’s not good, it pushed the rear pivot arm a little bit out which if put too much pressure on can snap and not be good, watch the rear shock video from Worldwide cycle Roy and true and find how they explain it, that’s how I learned about it

[@raphaelroshwalb5500]

Can u and me the link of the video ur talking about

[@nostr8ghtlinzs596]

now i understand why they say max frame travel. The frame arcs around the center of the pivot bearing. There was another guy had to change a part on his horse link to get more travel. It moved the pivot and changed the arc.

[@Travelakad]

190 is basically looping out the rear pivots and ruins the geometry. Great vid!

[@TrailFeatures]

Great video to learn from! As a rule, you should never use a shock that has a longer eye-to-eye for this and many other reasons. You can *_sometimes_* get away with running a shock with the same eye length, but slightly more stroke (the amount the shock moves). This is still very unadvisable since, as you showed, the distance is multiplied. So even an extra 5mm stroke can be a massive change. This can mean the geo gets all out of whack, or the linkage can smash into the frame and destroy your bike.

[@3Dsjk]

I’ve gone through all this geometry in 30 years of RC car racing. 1) The 190mm shock will be longer than the 165mm shock when both are compressed, so the bike will site higher when both bottom out. I’ve installed longer shocks on off-road cars without checking, only to see the car bouncing funny because the suspension bottoms out a lot sooner than before. You had to use a different mounting hole, or make a new mount, to make sure you have the same amount of bump travel as before. 2) You see that point where the rear suspension starts to rise back up as you extend the shock? You’ve hyperextended the suspension, and the rocker arm is working in the opposite direction; it wants to keep extending the shock, which will lock up the suspension. If I didn’t pay attention when installing those longer shocks, they might let the suspension extend too far, which could do anything from cause the linkage to bind or lock up, or even damage parts that now interfere with each other. You might have to put some limiting spacers inside the shock so it doesn’t extend farther than it should. After you go through all that, moving things around and making adjustments so the suspension doesn’t bottom out too early or extend too far, you might find you were better off with the short shocks the car came with in the first place. At least you learn a valuable lesson, and have some more goodies for your parts bin to use on future projects. I bet there’s a lot of crossover between RC racers and mountain bikers.

[@upstatecre8]

I bought the dnm coil shock for my sons full suspension rear and it’s been great. No complaints. He rides an Intense brand. It is nice to not have to deal with failing air.

[@skunkdenmtb]

Love the videos on the ledge x1! I most likely won’t be able to go with the air shock of your stage two build, so it looks like I’m gonna be lookin at the coil upgrade from stage one, after I save up for a second Ledge for my wife when they come back in stock. Tryin to get the family outside.

[@ShootMyMonkey]

I raise a glass to your nerd humor with that "short of it" joke.

[@sanabibimtb]

Nice video! Great video once again thank you!❤️👍

[@GarynLouis]

Can't wait for the next video!!!

[@keosoutdooradventures]

Shocking results! 😆😆

[@TheWrigle]

Interesting how much stiction you have in the rear suspension pivots. When I take the shock out of my bike you have to support the rear end or it just falls to its lowest point. I would imagine that stiction would decrease the sensitivity of the rear suspension, especially in rebound.

[@janeblogs324]

It even has bearings in all the links

[@alecswanson8844]

Agreed. I'd never accept that amount of friction.

[@tonybailey89]

First off this was amazingly helpful! I have a Cyrusher FR100 with the old 6.5x1.5" rear dimensions and basically the same rear suspension geometry and was thinking about going to a longer rear shock but this pretty much took all the wind out of my sails for the model of shock i wanted to go with lol But it's alright RockShox has plenty of solid options within my spec which are a bit lower end but will still get the job done, thanks for saving me some money and solving this very specific question I had about my bikes compatibility and now I won't be have to wait to spend the money on the shock that won't fit

[@rubenvasquez9686]

Awesome video …got my ledge yesterday can’t wait to upgrade too

[@romeclasher4671]

Got my Ledge today! Woot!

[@rubenvasquez9686]

@@romeclasher4671 it’s an awesome bike

[@MTBAlex]

Interesting, glad you did it

[@James-cs3hp]

What if you flip the pivot shock bracket and go with a smaller shock...or redesign the pivot bracket to fit the 190 with factory ride height....that's what iam doing to my bike...

[@JB-1138]

Good info. Thanks!

[@plokmko0]

what would be the effect of rider weight sag wouldn't that sag take out the issue of over rotating the pivot arm and benefit the usable shock travel that would be increased due to the sag height being moved up ?

[@mikemagnuson1619]

Great vid again! Missed the most recent restock. Hopefully soon

[@RuanOrjustRu]

I may be asking a silly question, but would a 165 with 40mm travel not give you the desired result? Manitau has one and rockshox has the 38mm travel monarch.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

While the shock factor was high in this video the end was unsurprising;) Another informative video. I don't know much about rear shocks so am glad to learn.

[@jasonbroni]

I literally loled...

[@tarstarkusz]

Great video Kev. You learn (the hard way) so we don't have to.

[@slowg8701]

So is there a budget shock between the 165 and 190 say a 180 or 185 a guy could use?

[@kedelbach]

I use the same DNM coil shock in 190mm length on my modified Razor electric dirt bike :) Came stock with the same craptastic "shock" as the Mongoose.

[@joshuabuilds3051]

Why is that rear triangle so sticky? I pressed new bearings into my frame and the pivots are fluid. Thats really stiff.

[@Mile-long-list]

You said the bearings work perfectly but when you let go of it when compressed it stays in position. They're dead or need fixing.

[@raymondjohns7617]

Awesome video kev

[@ianfaust5281]

New question, will a 29" rear wheel fit? I can see there is a little wiggle-room.

[@WmFaid]

how about using offset bushing. you can decrease shock length without decresing shock travel, just like current trend flip chip thingy

[@nathankennedy4556]

would you consider running a cheap trunnion-mount shock if the upper link was wide enough to fit it? so you could keep the stroke longer but make the eye to eye shorter?

[@nathankennedy4556]

there's some marin take off shocks in a 205x65 for $80 on pinkbike and I'm sure a shorter trunnion size there's a cheap one for sale

[@drewsenthused6079]

What an electrifying episode!

[@SB-fe4gt]

Good info, Thank You. I also tried a 190mm shock and it will NOT work for several reasons AND Unboxed Vids below is correct, the shock will be put in tension as the rear wheel moves upward.

[@aarontorres5689]

That ao42 doesnt have lockout or yes?

[@eastwood111]

That spring shock is the best I’ve tried all three. Plus springs are more comfortable than air. With air like you mentioned you have the convenience of quick adjustments. With spring shocks you just have to find the right pound shock. I’m running a 400 pound rock shock spring.

[@romeclasher4671]

What is your weight? I'm also looking to switch to a different spring if possible.

[@callumbjazevich5366]

Great vid

[@khandam7709]

bottom U bracket could be ground off and reweld it on 1" lower to allow a 190mm shock, but would it be worth the hassle? what is the range on the 190mm? I assume 50mm? I've never tested various shocks side by side. I certainly think 3-4 inches of travel is worth it. I guess you have to be pretty hard core to want more than that?

[@KevCentral]

Lol. Yeah, I’m happy with the 165

[@nathansmith1709]

For doing the measurements of the travel woudnt it be a better idea to take the pressure put the shock and compress it

[@harrygrimley4352]

Very interesting.

[@JonBashamcrazymtnbiker88]

Also glad to see someone else try a shock that wasn't designed for the bike and it not work and not be my 💰 for once! Great video

[@andersfridell4927]

Interesting video. 👍

[@elpancho5213]

Your video gave me some bright! I’m all ready to chage my X fusion 02RC wich Measures 185mm, for a DNM AOY-36RC 19mm, the difference between them os a half milimeter. My Bike is a Specialized FSR XC 2008. Do you recommend?

[@elpancho5213]

I meant 190mm 😅😅

[@armandojuan64]

I tried that in my Ironhorse Warrior 3.1 26" and that is not a good idea . The mechanical engineers who designed the bike , calculated the pivot and lever system to work with a 165 mm shock and not otherwise .

[@ihartmacz]

Could you review the Schwinn High Timber ALX 29? It’s on Amazon. Thanks for all you do!

[@KevCentral]

If I come across one. Thanks

[@peterramirez2746]

I wonder if you can go trunyan Mount style shock instead

[@EvansMTBSaga]

Should've sat on the bike to see what the linkage looks like with 30% sag.

[@KevCentral]

30% is for amateurs. I set mine to 29.997% 😁

[@samihamad6255]

Do you have any insight on when this might come back in stock? I missed the restock last week

[@KevCentral]

I haven’t heard anything new regarding inventory updates

[@atesserhat]

@@KevCentral just ordered today, last time i ordered last month, they cancelled my order, but lets see what happens this time :)

[@danielvalverdeortiz2216]

I was wondering if I could add a longer shock it's like you could read my mind, also my Ledge is arriving today

[@andrewwong3326]

Is the stroke the same for both shocks? When i clicked on the provided links both of them shows 35mm of stroke. If the stroke is the same the overall travel will be similar. (maybe i missed something but let me know.)

[@KevCentral]

Stroke for the 190 is 48mm

[@andrewwong3326]

@@KevCentral thanks, I figured i have just missed that. Keep up the good work!

[@cup_and_cone]

Did you try compressing it with the 190mm shock on? Doesn't look like it would even work, the rocker arm seems like it reversed geometry and would pull on the shock instead of compressing it.

[@KevCentral]

Nah. I figured it would have been pointless as it clearly wasn’t something that would work for riding

[@VerthNeel]

I like all this experimenting.

[@mtb_mechanic]

You should try a 165 shock with more than 35mm of travel?

[@amyfogarty6882]

By far your most SHOCKING vid yet!!! ;)

[@markjon7822]

Kev is this Hub have a Shimano freehub?

[@derekneumann]

2021 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp Carbon 29 in stealth gray FTW!!

[@hankshobbies]

Where can you get the new mongoose ledge x1....I’ve looked everywhere and can’t find one

[@KevCentral]

Link in description, but it’s currently out of stock

[@tinkerbike2510]

You could machine some new links with the front hole farther forward and the rear hole higher up and this would work well.

[@elulysero8863]

Now we just need someone to do it

[@hokkypro]

Hello I can't find any service/maintenance videos on DNM sir shocks, can anyone help me out?

[@KevCentral]

I think their intention is for buyers to obtain a new shock when they wear out. Hence the low price for their performance vs shocks they compete with.

[@40Zzz]

You save my money 💥

[@philiplb]

Could try a 165mm trunnion shock to get more travel. Might be more $ than you want to spend.

[@johndef5075]

Can anyone name a frame that can use a shock 1 inch longer than stock without messing it up? Thanks for showing the reality of the situation. A longer stroke might work but longer shock bad idea.

[@_Schreintime]

Entertainment at its finest

[@josealdanavalera6539]

Hey men I'll like to buy you a frame. How do I contact you?

[@andrewpm2]

What was the weight and price of the 165 coil vs air? Great video btw

[@KevCentral]

Factory 165: 412g DNM coil 165: 460g DNM Air 165: 282g DNM Air 190: 316g

[@davidhollingsworth5163]

Once you hit that apex and it feels like it clicks and those rockers are aimed straight down makes the suspension nonfunctional.

[@Devanpaul1991]

Could you flip the pivot brackets upside down and make it work🤔

[@KevCentral]

I think that would cause contact problems elsewhere and change the dynamic of the rear pivots

[@slin6350]

Suggestion for the next experiment: Put shocks of different stroke lengths (but same eye to eye length) to see how it affects the bike.

[@eugene44569]

Why didn't pacific equip an axe drivetrain on the ledge with an 8 speed cassete. Even if it was 50 dollars more it would be worth it

[@eddierickenbacker6327]

It's a department store bike, it will always be limited

[@romeclasher4671]

Could you change the travel like some front air forks? Could 170-75mm would probably be the max maybe? Can't wait for stage 3!!!! 👍

[@edwardcook23]

Just a idea. You can let all of the air out of the shock and then you can measure travel a lot easier with the shock installed. Then you also get the physical stops at each end of the shock

[@KevCentral]

It’s worth note that some shocks don’t recommend fully depleting unless they’re being rebuilt

[@edwardcook23]

@@KevCentral that is a good note to make.

[@travishumburg440]

You would need to have custom rocker arms made… but also then- more pedal strikes for the change in BB deflection.

[@guilhermemorgado9967]

You could drill the lower pivot hole into a lower position (not what i would do), since that wont make the linkage extend that Much. It is a way to keep going with the experiment if that is the goal.. Off-center shock eyelet bushings also exist, they are sometimes used to change geometrien.

[@KevCentral]

Hmmm. Wouldn’t that also eliminate the ability to use a 190? It pretty much fills the available space as-is.

[@guilhermemorgado9967]

@@KevCentral You seem to still have some space between the shock and frame near the lower pivot (by the image, I'd say it could lower something like 10-15mm. It is hard to judge exactly if the 10-15mm would be inside the triangular hole in the lower mount brace -> the welded into the main frame triangle brace that extends from the downtube to hold the lower pivot). Or maybe that triangular hole in the lower eyelet mount could be enlarged. Possibly part of said lower mount would also have to be filed/ground to make space for the shock air can. Do any of those mods at your own risk, it was just if you wanted to take the experiment further. I just meant that mabe 190mm shock would be possible, if you consider lowering the lower mount point by drilling it out.

[@Mayhem-Mechanics]

Hey @KevCentral, do you have an address I could ship spare bike parts I can't use to? Idk if you need any, but maybe you could use them.

[@KevCentral]

Hello. Contact me via my website

[@Mayhem-Mechanics]

@@KevCentral ok, thanks

[@Mayhem-Mechanics]

Can I just ship to that address you have on the contact page on your website?

[@Chepecafeteria]

I saw that from the beginning. The hole back suspension will get stock once it goes that point 😂

[@markjerstad4664]

Love your pseudo science, it's accurate enough to illustrate the point!!

[@Wannaridebikes]

The pivots are made to match certain shocks. Like my downhill bike the pivot will change if I add bigger shock. The theory is changing shock length will offset the pivot such as new bike have the clip to move forward or back to change the sweep. Now dh bike you change coils. For strength nothing longer on shock just lb pressure for coil. Now you bike if you add bigger shock did you notice how it made the pivot would not work bigger shock would have made the pivot push down no up to pivot

[@elulysero8863]

Nice. Well i definitely won't be buying the 190mm. Butttt. When is the x2 coming out 👀

[@ynova325]

Hello greetings from Tijuana Baja California Mexico very well your video helps a lot 👍 where can I buy a Mongoose Ledge X1

[@KevCentral]

Hopefully the X1 will be back in stock soon

[@krissv3ctor512]

So I have a question for any big-box-bike riders out there: Are these bikes worthy of anything that’s not super smooth and laid back? Like jumps drops and harder tech.

[@jckdnls9292]

How big a drop or jump

[@krissv3ctor512]

@@jckdnls9292 Bigger than 6 feet vertical Maybe?

[@KevCentral]

Buy a bike built for jumps from the ground up - my opinion

[@TheWrigle]

Most entry level bike store bikes aren't meant to send 6 foot drops, buch less big box bikes. If you wanna get into that kind of stuff for cheap I would look into the used market and see if you can't find anything purpose built for rough terrain in your price range. Probably try to find something with 160+ mm of travel from a reputable brand that someone is replacing. Most of these big box bikes have no more than 100mm of travel, which is considered a cross country bike by most standards. Heck even many XC bikes nowadays are pushing 115mm of travel in the rear. If you want to do jumps, drops, and tech, I would suggest getting no less than like 140 rear/150 front. You could get away with less with the right geometry and skills, but I would rather start off with too much and downgrade later if needs be than not get enough and be limited in what you can ride, or snap your cheap xc bike putting yourself in the hospital.

[@krissv3ctor512]

@@TheWrigle I’m not really worried about getting into it, as I have a Yeti SB140, I was just more curious about the capabilities of these.

[@mikejones420]

The linkage with the 190 shock was actually in an over travel position, and it never would have worked at all even if the shock did bolt up correctly, it's a bit technical, but it has to do with mechanical advantage, and how leverage systems actually work, once you pass the over travel position, you are effectively locking out the shock from ever functioning. if you want to increase rear wheel travel, you need to keep the same eye to eye measurement, but go with a slightly longer stroke shock, and I do mean slightly, maybe 5mm or so more than the original. The mechanical advantage of that bikes linkage, looks to be a 2:1 ratio, meaning that the total rear wheel travel will be twice that of the shock stroke. 35mm of shock travel equates to 70mm of rear wheel travel.

[@9332D]

How about a 170 or 180 shock that mite fit if thay make it

[@KevCentral]

I don’t know that they would make much of a difference over the factory 165. There’s a point of near zero movement before it starts pivoting up. It’s not much after 165, so the pivot system is closely tuned for that size

[@mtbbrosfullsend9591]

If you build a costume middle pivot you could make the bike be able to run the bigger shock

[@Jayzino_x]

I wasn’t really surprised about it tbh Also wishing we had Walmart in Ireland so I could get one of these bikes 😭

[@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921]

Look at Himalo frame on Aliexpress.

[@Jayzino_x]

@Dirty Dave haha we already got social welfare they give too much to the junkies and leave the tax paying citizens hanging

[@Jayzino_x]

@@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921 I will

[@jacklo325]

Good experiment. Sometimes that's the only way to learn. Surprisingly DNM actually makes pretty decent parts, and affordable too. And I think you are right, 29" wheels can fit, but wondering if axum wheels can fit in there (29 x 2.6)??

[@Matrucos3]

29" x 2.6 Axum Wheels and tires fit fine

[@BrianHenry83]

What is the reach for a medium ledge x1?

[@KevCentral]

Check out the geometry video. I go over all those numbers there

[@Psyrecx]

You wouldn't be just losing travel with a 190mm. The system isn't made for that length, and wouldn't be able to travel at all with a 190mmm. The rotation of the swing arm wouldn't be able to correct the inversion of that hinge point, that you can fix when adjusting by hand. Swing arm rotating up would actually force that hinge point further down, if not for the limitation of the shock. Your shock would need to be able to extend rather than compress for that to work. Lack of room and a shock that can do that, means it won't work at all.

[@chriss2295]

I’m shocked!

[@the__________]

Feel like it might help with traction and sag with it calibrated, have it sitting at the top of the pivot point with your body weight.. lol But it would be funny to see how well it worked

[@davepc2u]

cool more ledge nerd out info. good good good.

[@WWMike12]

You should cut new lever arms (& possibly dropout extensions) to fit the 190! Use your "marker and cardboard" concept to create pivot point arks to help determine rising/decreasing rates! The way the arm and dropouts are designed, you could make some raw prototypes with garage tools! Of course you'd need to b.b./chainring clearance! DOOO EEET!

[@monsterinyourcloset7573]

I have a $1300 hardtail fat bike but now I want this Mongoose so bad!

[@eugene44569]

The vitus neuclus vr 27.5 blue is available in a size medium kev but it could me sold out

[@KevCentral]

Lots of people like that brand

[@eugene44569]

@@KevCentral its in stock you should check it out

[@bradleyfurer7847]

I have an older full suspension bike… I look at the rear suspension just as a stabilizer, just like shock absorbers on a car… not really for travel like on a motocross motorcycle

[@NazihBitar]

I think you got shock sizing wrong. For Example on my Specialized Enduro, it uses a 210 x 60. 210 is the eye to eye measurement, while 60 is the stroke length. The stroke being the part that compresses. I over shocked my bike by increasing the stroke, so it is a 65, but the eye to eye stays the same. So the shock I am running is a 210 x 65.

[@ironlion8167]

I think the only way you could get this to work is if you made a custom pivot that could change the position of the rear triangle just enough so you could get more travel, I am considering on doing this to a much older bike frame to try and increase travel, as well as make the head tube angle slacker. I’m not entirely sure if it would work but I could experiment on it to see what would happen

[@KevCentral]

Lots of work - and math

[@CaptainShiny5000]

With the 190 shock it will basically jam the pivot mechanism so it'll be basically unusable and might even do damage to the pivot system in the longrun. Also you'll have no travel at all, so it's a useless endeavour anyway.

[@scottcrf01]

That's what I saw.

[@beachbarlouie]

That is what I thought too. I figure if the upper swing arm can now handle the vertical stress of pushing the pivot up it might last a while. But will it work good?

[@musk8695]

What bike around $500 do you recommend?

[@BMOutdoorz]

Get the mongoos ardor for 300 get a new fork and eventually new brakes

[@jasonbroni]

Holy weld!

[@tushartomar5321]

Hey sir can u suggest me any good MTB under 200$

[@KevCentral]

Right now there isn’t much available due to inventory shortages

[@christopherwall1130]

Make a 2 dimensional CAD model from measurements of each linkage. It won't provide an accurate measurement of leverage ratio, but you can figure our travel and changes to the bike's geo pretty easily.

[@KevCentral]

Maths 👿

[@zainsharifi4612]

I was screaming when I saw that screwdriver in the electrical socket.