Perfect Timing... (Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ - Low Power, Stumble P000A/B)

[@matthewdale174]

“Let’s skip the scope for now” Words I never thought I’d here from Ivan

[@AJourneyOfYourSoul]

When customers are coming from several hours away, that tells me there is a TREMENDOUS amount of opportunity in this field for competent techs. Learn your craft, be honest and you will always be busy.

[@MC-om7ds]

I’m baffled how ur not over 200K subs yet. The amount of subs a creator has does not show how good the product is. I watch all of ur videos and I just don’t get it. Keep it up I kno u don’t do it for the subs. You seem like a guy that would still put vids out even if u had 0. Love ur work

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

Goes to tell you most people come to YT for entertainment/intrigue.

[@alward9901]

As a layman’s opinion . Anything that moves wears out . Two contacting surfaces electrical or mechanical. Another excellent repair Ivan 👍🇺🇸

[@billburkart9087]

I'm so old you might as well be speaking Russian, this electronic stuff makes me feel like a dinosaur. I still watch all of the videos because it helps to understand if I have to take my car to a mechanic. If it was me I would order twice the parts if the are cheap because of part shortages down the road.

[@pantherplatform]

Speculation first, swaptronics second, fan boy forums third and then take it to Ivan after you've turned every constant into a variable.

[@areid1440]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@flightofarrow]

That is funny!

[@calholli]

At least they are easy to get to. It's always a pain when you have to take the top half of an engine apart just to get to a sensor/ actuator. Like a knock sensor under the intake.

[@elelectricistademateo]

Ivan first of all thank you for being such a nice human being and excellent teacher - I have written to you in youtube a couple of times saying I am from Caracas Venezuela - anyway - this link from this technician called Sean Boyle siu automotive youtube channel - he talks about DELAY in pressure waveforms, you never have mentioned that DELAY - I really hope you can watch this video one day and make one video talking about it

[@fascistpedant758]

The solenoids don't directly control the position of the phasers but the rate of change of position. It only takes a little stiction for the phaser to quickly overshoot the target position.

[@craiggoodwin9704]

Ivan, I think you are having a little bit to much fun on your test drives! I suppose you deserve a little fun after doing a fantastic job diagnosing and repairing this vehicle. Thanks for Sharing!

[@androidemulator6952]

Maybe a benchtop waveform signal generator to put out variable duty cycle pulses, rather than just a constant 12v supply ?.

[@DarrelllCampbelll]

I hope KZbin makes you a millionaire someday man. Great videos and trouble shooting.

[@stevewhite3424]

Good fix Ivan! One thing I think I saw was when you were doing the 0 to 60 run while watching the tach it sure seemed like that automatic slush Box was short shifting the motor compared to redline. I would have thought that a motor in theat style of car would want to be spun up just a bit higher for maximum performance. Oh well looks like a fun car but not for this old body anymore :) Hope everybody has a great day!

[@eginbott6804]

@@bigdaddymak1439 its not a cvt

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Good diagnostic and easy repair. Maybe the problem with the solenoid is halfway through its operating travel - extremes are usually more consistent on solenoids.

[@sweetwilliam49]

My old Camry will break the speed limit without all this vvt crap. The more features you have, the more that can break. Works with cars and washers/dryers

[@kyletuttle9064]

Always learn new tricks from you and Eric o thanks

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Your videos are improving as well as your diagnostic work!

[@happygarage6310]

Had that issue before, those solenoids get clogged pretty easily, I imagine if the oil wasn’t changed regularly they could get sticky, but I’ll wager as the engines age we’ll see that more often. My problem car had an engine replacement, con rod bearings spun, metal fragmentation entered those solenoids and I ended up replacing all 4 and changing the oil to resolve the issue.

[@jimburgess9205]

Greetings from Fort Worth Texas.

[@Shirkatron]

Good job on the diag In the beginning after you read the FFD and asked yourself if it worth getting the scope out; I would suggest a quick visual test of the phasers/sprockets to make sure they are not slipping. Remove the cam shaft position sensor and watch the sprocket. With the engine off and key off, rotate the crankshaft. The sprocket assembly needs to turn as one unit, as the crank is rotated. if the relucter plate (teeth) lag as the engine rotated then the sprocket is dead. Now for the phaser bench check. Just supply voltage and pressing on the solenoid is not enough. It’s a good place to start but not a test that simulates actually use. You need to monitor the magnetic field expanding and collapsing with a scope; at a 50% duty cycle. A failing solenoid normally does a field that takes too long to collapse, compared to a known good. IE I tested a coil against the other three, in car, and the coil was taking 10ms longer to collapse vs the rest.

[@NotFastEddie]

Along with skipping the scope, why do all of that? He did it right just as when checking for a bad coil. Swap the suspected bad part with a known good part. If the problem moves with the part, you have your answer. If it doesn't move with the part, only then do you dig deeper. No need for all that extra work. Unless your working in a shop, charging by the hour.

[@Shirkatron]

@@NotFastEddie I work on this platform exclusively. Just passing some insight along First rule of posting comments on the internet is “you’re always wrong”

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

@@Shirkatron I enjoyed your insights. It's always good to hear reasoned explanations.

[@nct9466]

Hi guys n goodnight from New Zealand

[@thejoneseys]

Another excellent detailed video. I noticed the orings were made in Japan just a pity the valves weren't. I was getting back ache just watching you test drive that 😁

[@weshawkins7165]

What impresses me is how you know what all the running data with the vvt angles on the scanner are suppose to be. I wouldn’t know which graph was good or bad.

[@moparsrt1905]

It's not that he knows ahead of time. The reason these guys like to use graphs is they can play a game of "one of these things doesn't belong"!! You don't need to know what good is you just need to compare against each other and decide which one looks abnormal. It's actually all quite simple when it boils down to the basics

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@moparsrt1905 yes it helps to have a "known good" unit on the same vehicle 😁

[@lvsqcsl]

Let's not forget the Toyota 86 is also the same as the BRZ/FRS. I'll have you know that the BRZ is Subaru's second rear-wheel-drive car. The first was a 1954 Subaru 1500. It was very stylish; very similar to a VAZ-2105 LOL! Those boxer engines give the car a low center of gravity. RWD useless in winter? I've never owned a front-wheel-drive car. I guess I should get one so I can drive in winter. Great video!

[@AP9311]

Hey Ivan, that was easy diagnosis for you haha, but great graphing on the solenoids and swapping around. Nice bonus footage!! Great job!!

[@tomlewis3658]

I was wondering how expensive these are, so I looked on Rock Auto, and there is a Dorman (916586) that is sold, as a sub for that Toyota # SU003-07806. So maybe somewhere in the northeastern US, a shop is installing 4 Dorman solenoids in 1 of these cars, and 6 months from now, the distraught owner will have the car flatbedded to PHAD. Ivan can look into the camera and say, "There's your problem, lady".

[@vwwrenchie314]

Those Scion Toyota Mazda collaborations can be challenging

[@billsimmons7754]

You could compare the solenoids by putting a weight on them and measuring the current required to raise the weight off the bottom. I suspect that once it would starts to lift the weight, that the magnetic force on the pin increases and would then lift the weight all the way. Other than shorted turns or a stuck pin I am a a loss to think of any other failure that would occur in one of these. The pin is obviously not stuck. A well designed quality part would also almost preclude shorted turns.

[@rickw.9298]

Solenoids do best when they need to hold a position upon activation. Using them to activate a given force (upon activation) not so much. They are the weak link in poorly designed control solution and will be problematic.

[@pantherplatform]

Had the same problem with elevator control boards with dozens of relays and hundreds of Jesus clips.

[@roxanneabbott8424]

Another great video Ivan!

[@chekelley6861]

It doesn’t matter where the parts are made at all. It matters what specifications the part is made with. I remember when “made in Japan” was automatically called “junk” by Americans.

[@larrybe2900]

That was a hostile car market speaking until the sentiment was turned on its head with experience. Maybe a little remnants of national pride after WWII thrown in. After all we showed them how it was done so how could they be better? Well America retooled in order to compete and only toys were junk..... wait ...

[@DMHltd]

So China made parts are not failing more than non China made parts?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Specifications is one thing...Quality Control is another haha

[@chekelley6861]

@@DMHltd There are more Chinese made parts in the world, so there is a higher chance of coming across a failed Chinese part. Whatever device you’re using to bitch online about Chinese parts, was made, at least in part, in China. The world runs ONLY because of China.

[@DMHltd]

@@chekelley6861 sadly true. They sold us the noose to hang ourselves.

[@justliberty4072]

How about a differential/relative test: put the two control thingies against one another and energize both. Look to see if one can push the other.

[@MohammedIBRAHIM-iw1xl]

Superb job! Thanks sir

[@zx8401ztv]

I would use the current limiting in the psu to see if both were rising roughly to the same height as each other. Then apply a equal heavy weight to each one, repeat the current test. Not that i know anything about the solinoids, i would be having fun lol

[@keithmorgan2367]

Ivan your the greatest

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Smooth easy fix. Good one Ivan!

[@Micko350]

Over here in Australia they're called a Toyota 86, very popular with the fanboi's & girls alike!

[@chloegoddard7933]

Another great video Ivan best regards from Chloe in the UK.....

[@chrissmith7655]

Ivan , should have tried the new one, but can't think of everything. Many thanks.

[@calholli]

These little things are $135 on Ebay. I'd hate to see what they cost at the dealer. Yikes. Too bad there's not a way to clean them or something.

[@davidraezer5937]

I need to take a serious look at buying the scan tool you are using. I should have gone that route a year ago and bought a separate Picoscope. The Autel Maxisys ultra has been good but the year update is expensive

[@Peter_Riis_DK]

Put the solenoids in series, double the voltage - then you have an immediate and comparable situation. :)

[@baxrok2.]

Nice job Ivan. Thanks!

[@jayjudd6518]

Good job . The parts canon.

[@frankwebb7507]

Your videos are always of great interest Ivan, quite often "edge of the seat stuff", in this case an interesting problem, solenoids usually either operate or not operate, in your case they are slow to operate which could mean either pull-in or drop-out timing. You found that they did not seem to be mechanically sticking due to friction so what could affect the MMF (Magneto Motive Force) for pulling in or is the spring inside relaxing and is slow to drop-out? An excessive air gap, shorted turn, higher resistance winding will decrease the initial pull-in MMF, once the air gap is closed the MMF will be at maximum. I wonder if the solenoid has an internal permanent magnet to assist pull-in MMF, probably not. The force exerted by an electromagnet is directly proportional to the number of turns and DC current and inversely proportional to the mean magnetic path through the core material plus the length through the air gap multiplied by the relative permeability of the core material hence any air gap will quickly dominate the required pull-in current. It was obviously fixed with a new solenoid so we can rule out external circuit resistance.

[@theronsmith8244]

Thanks for sharing

[@marshmower]

He should try MMO. It can dissolve sludge and of course changing the oil way more than the recommended interval. I'd buy mobil1 enhanced economy or whatever green logo is on there instead of royal purple. I have used it but it's more money for ????.

[@CallMeChato]

What? Rear wheel drive is the most fun in the winter.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Not with 4 inches of ground clearance and low profile tires 😅

[@CallMeChato]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That’s for sure. Who drives without snows?

[@olko3418]

Maybe cut one of these old ones open? Would love to see what's inside. I know on the BMW ones there built in screens on the solenoids ports, sort of like a very fine mesh screen. Maybe clogged with debris? Would be interesting to know if it's an oil flow problem through solenoid or coil weakness.

[@richardsawtell256]

those type you are talking about that the oil is directed through the OCV work different to this type in the video which has no oil flow through it

[@olko3418]

@@richardsawtell256 you are right! I didn't think about that. It's just a plunger.....

[@richb419]

Hi, has the plastic actuator pin worn making it a little shorter? something is up... are we missing something? Rich

[@fredwalker839]

Spot on again , Ivan , 👍

[@douglasburford8452]

Hopefully the solenoids will not be obsoleted in the next 20 years.

[@thargoid666]

I guess to properly bench test the solenoids you should feed a PWM signal with similar frequency as the PCM. Maybe the coil inductance changed and is weaker with a PWM signal.

[@russellhltn1396]

Yes, but a quick test would be to vary the power supply and seen how the pintle moves. He just needs to twist the knob on an existing setup.

[@jo300hn]

Mary, there's something about that headtorch😉

[@johnmillard5296]

Other great posting can I ask a question about the oil in the engine I have seen a great improvement in gas mileage since I have put the manufacturer's specs to the letter,I have seen that the car I drive is just gets up and goes, I ask you if its a factor working with vvt actuarialors

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Correct oil is crucial for optimal performance and efficiency 👍

[@pb3033]

A VVT Master class..👍

[@MikeWrenches]

My canadian self and my year-round-daily-driven 86 take offense to your statement that RWD is no good in winter. I intentionally go out and drive mine in snowstorms and have a healthy chuckle at people stuck in the ditch with their 4WDs. It's not the car or which wheels are powered that matter, it's the tires.

[@osuuma6935]

Aren't those valves controlled with a duty cycle? The bench power supply is effectively a 100% duty cycle. Perhaps if you were to apply a 50%duty cycle at the same frequency as the control signal, the comparative plunger performance of the valves might be better felt.

[@michaelpatosa]

What kind of car would Ivan take for Autocrossing? Just out of curiosity, Great video thanks!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I remember a Ford Contour kicking ass in a mall parking lot back in the late 90s :)

[@joycepeterson6971]

When they get hot is when they stop working. found that I could not bench test them . Just change them they don,t cost that much

[@mike-yp1uk]

Great

[@Fjord_Driver]

Every time I see a Subaru on the road, I think, man, I hope they have spare solenoids.

[@weareguardians7384]

Maybe heat from the engine could effect the performance of the internals when old.

[@jordydereus]

This car is not old. My charade from 1992 is old.

[@weareguardians7384]

@@jordydereus hi, I was referring to the parts that failed

[@dangleebols]

Try it at 6 volts, that will show the load difference.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Should have done that 👍

[@hpelisr]

These cars with the variable valve timing components seam to go bad a lot.

[@Cowboy_Ash]

Sad to see Toyota and Subaru joining the race to the bottom with cheap parts. I would have replaced the last one. He’s already replaced 3.

[@jhonditch4269]

I guess you forgot not too many years ago almost all were rear wheel drive and we all got around no problem boy

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah I learned to drive on the snowy hills of upstate NY in my RWD '89 Mazda MPV, which is still going strong. A minivan that can do donuts, how cool is that ;)

[@agmc4me]

Great fix.too bad parts supply is getting diluted. You would have loved the test equipment we had at NASA

[@colinellicott9737]

Pity you didn't have Ivan inspect those NASA O-rings ... too soon?

[@_RiseAgainst]

Ivan skipped the Pico scope? Is anything real anymore?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

BIZZARO WORLD!

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Ivan, I'm having trouble finding the diagnostic port on the car in my profile picture! Any information on Alldata?

[@lvsqcsl]

Ivan seems to be keeping his shirt on more.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

😜

[@dassme1]

GM uses that type of actuator on the ecotec turbo , like in the Chevy Sonic and cruze

[@davidgrisco1939]

Gee, I thought for sure there would be a head gasket leak involved...LOL

[@arcademania7544]

😂

[@jhonditch4269]

had same problem Auto Zone said replace engine

[@johnboutsikos6049]

Mfrs tolerance on pin lengths or actuator springs not strong enough

[@daytona1445]

Two failed and one is failing, i think i would have recommended replacing all three old ones to prevent a future problem.

[@SuperJoes70]

Ivan would the heat of the oil at full operating tempure in the engine cause less resistece to the solnoid pintle ??

[@lancecorey6582]

How do you get small changes if all you have is 2 positions? To check the force, activated both solenoids and push the pins against each other; the weaker one will move first.

[@dustcommander100]

Simple and fast? I couldn't keep those cryptic labels for VVT functions straight!!!!! I got the picture, but if I had been the one selecting parameters to watch, I'd still be scratching my head.... So, generally speaking, the VVT solenoids aren't just on or off - they are pulsed with a longer or shorter duty cycle to regulate valve timing?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yes continuously variable control to keep the cam advance at precisely the desired angle :)

[@MH-wg6bz]

Makes you wonder how much the engine heat and oil quality affect these solenoids

[@russellhltn1396]

I'm wondering if a thin lubricant could fix the problem.

[@porsche558]

I wonder if the sensor is bad and it looked like the actuator was fluctuating when it really wasn’t.

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

You mean the Camshaft Position Sensor? It's unlikely, because there'll probably be an accompanying DTC for the corresponding CMP. Base timing isn't affected (since the plunger would be retracted at this time). Apparently the issue only comes up when the ECM activates the OCV, causing its plunger to extend. If the CMP had issues it would probably show up throughout the rpm range and not only when the VVT kicks in or the engine temp goes up (since heat is a factor which can affect a CMP). A quick test to further buttress this reasoning is to swap a known good CMP from another location and see if the OCV graphs change. Otherwise it's the OCVs that are bad. At least, that's how I see it.

[@porsche558]

@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 I will have to try that on my own car since I have the same issue. I’ve got the 3.6L H-6 so the placement and design of things are a little different but the principal is the same as the 2.0L and 2.5L engines.

[@russellhltn1396]

What I would have liked to have seen is varying the voltage on the solenoid and seeing if I could get a smooth action on the pintle. That's what the computer is trying to do, and it appears that it sticks and then jumps.

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

I suppose one would need equipment capable of outputting PWM voltage?

[@stealthg35infiniti94]

Ivan, Do those solenoids have engine oil flowing inside them? I wonder if Neglected oil changes is causing striction inside? Would cleaning help internal movement? My miticulas cared 2015 BRZ with 90K miles has never developed this problem.

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

This type doesn't utilize oil flow itself. Rather it utilizes the magnetism to push the plunger only. The plunger then pushes on the actual part on the cam phaser which allows oil flow. This style is on the Toyota 2GR-FKS and VWs too. The older style OCVs you're talking about controlled the oil flow within themselves. So they separated the functions on this style.

[@MrtalentedReid]

Maybe there is a collapse in the resistance field 🤔

[@johnleinen7167]

Haha! It's a Toybaru

[@loubakker5000]

No sticktion on the valves, Ivan ? :-))

[@AnhYeuEmMaiMai69]

how many miles and how often does the oil get changed?

[@tedsmith6137]

One solenoid failed and was changed, a second one failed and a third was starting to act up. Would it not make sense to change the 4th one as well?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Customer is well aware, will DIY as budget allows 👍

[@somerandomguy3868]

As good as the boxer engines are they still have issues, at least the phasers are easy enough to get, working on these engines in frame is not fun

[@CallMeChato]

Pop the engine mounts and jack it up. Dead simple. Do it all the time.

[@johnleinen7167]

I ordered a coil pack from Motorcraft and paid premium price for it,and guess what, HECO EN CHINA!

[@keysautorepair6038]

Just bought some gm parts yesterday and guess what big made in China sticker on it.

[@fascistpedant758]

A lot of great stuff is made in China, they make what you ask for. If people want cheap junk, they make cheap junk.

[@lvsqcsl]

I bought brake rotors for the front of my Marquis that were made in China. The rear rotors were made in the USA.

[@johnstancato8785]

I guess rear wheel drive depends on personal preference I grew up driving rear wheel drive in the winter I actually prefer rear wheel drive if it's a big car my first car was a 69 Plymouth fury 3 4 door with a 383 big block that car would go anywhere in the snow smaller cars yeah they're useless in the winter

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Did you throw some cement bags in the trunk for extra traction?

[@volvo09]

​@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics that works good. my truck won't even move sometimes. my little civic is much better. if all I cared about was traction I'd take a FWD car with good snow tires any day.

[@douglasburford8452]

I would much prefer a rear wheel drive in a blizzard with deep snow.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Maybe with some ground clearance, snow tires, and cinder blocks in the trunk ;) Chains are also very helpful on ice sheets

[@johnnyheckard7185]

Hummmmm. Is it a scion? Subaru? Or a Toyota? I’m confused.

[@johnschuler3269]

Good Work ! One thought ... Looks to me like you changed 3 of 4 "old" VVT Solenoids. WHY NOT the 4th one? They are all aging together, so why risk another call-back. That said, I AM BIASED. As a DIYer, I am my own boss and I firmly believe in preventive maintenance. SO, when my Toyota SUV threw an AFR code. I changed both AFRs and the O2 ... Boom! all good. After all, they are all the same age and why would one be left to just fail a few miles down the road. NOTE: Dealers are just the OPPOSITE ! e.g. 120K service They change ALL 6 plugs but NONE of the Coils. False economy for the owner, but a great source of repeat revenue for the Shop / Dealer. BTW: When I did my own 120K service I also changed all 6 coils AND both VVT solenoids. All items subject to "Time-in-use" failure ... and even OEM parts are relatively inexpensive. Imp;roved performance and GREAT PEACE OF MIND! John in the NW

[@volvo09]

the owner changed the 1st one with an OEM a few months before visiting Ivan... that's why only 3.

[@brianm9007]

@@volvo09 Only 3 were changed in the end. The exhaust on bank #2 was deemed to be acceptable, so it was not replaced. He ordered 2 new ones (for the intakes) and put the exhaust #1 back in its place as the owner had done previously.

[@willf5768]

😊👍

[@colinellicott9737]

I had a proportional valve in a pneumatic system driven by solenoids trying to produce precise flows from analogue forces - a total disaster. There are ways to do this without resorting to such unreliable subsystems ... though maybe not anything as cheap as parts from china 🙄

[@mkilptrick]

You would think that cars would be engineered over time to be simpler and easier to work on. No! The car company bigwigs won't make any money so screw that idea. "WE NEED TO SELL MORE CARS. PERIOD!"

[@monfrig6959]

ever see your buddy the snake again ?

[@mechanicalsuntheoneyouknow]

Actually this car is both port and direct fuel injection system