Persistence, Getting Back Into Art, and Marketing Yourself - Draftsmen S3E30

Stan and Marshall answer more of your pressing art-related questions from our last batch of voicemails for the show. The two address topics like the importance of persistence, what to focus on after school, graphite versus charcoal, and the age-old conundrum surrounding the graceful acceptance of positive feedback.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro
08:32 - Voicemail 1 - Getting an animation job
12:30 - Voicemail 2 - Strengths finder
17:33 - Voicemail 3 - Deliberate practice
22:49 - Voicemail 4 - Stories about Students
28:12 - Voicemail 5 - Environments
33:34 - Voicemail 6 - Laying groundwork for career
47:06 - Voicemail 7 - Resurrecting a career
55:04 - Voicemail 8 - Trouble starting a career
01:00:54 - Voicemail 9 - Trouble with positive feedback
01:06:07 - Voicemail 10 - Recording inspiration
01:10:13 - Voicemail 11 - Graphite vs charcoal
Show Links (some contain affiliate links):
Bob Ross: Happy Accidents, Betrayal & Greed - www.netflix.com/title/81155081
Pomeroy Art Academy - www.pomeroyartacademy.com/
The Talent Code: Greatness isn’t born. It’s grown. - amzn.to/31CRjoN
Rendering in Pen and Ink - amzn.to/3EVfnBI
Designing Creatures for Star Wars and Disney with Terryl Whitlatch - Draftsmen S3E06 - proko.com/496
Cutter Hays - static.proko.com/media/images...
Moebius - static.proko.com/media/images...
Jeff Goodby & Rich Silverstein Master Class - www.masterclass.com/classes/j...
Reinventing Yourself - Draftsmen S2E22 - proko.com/442
Too Old to Start Drawing? Cosplay Fashion Design? Voicemail Marathon!!! - Draftsmen S1E18 - proko.com/352
Ken Burns: Country Music - amzn.to/3BXatSM
Hit Makers (Book) - amzn.to/2YvLKra
Can this Book Make You Famous? - Draftsmen S3E05 - proko.com/494
Getting YOUR Work in a Gallery - Draftsmen S3E28 - proko.com/593
Gerry Gersten - static.proko.com/media/images...
Chris Van Alsburg - static.proko.com/media/images...
Stan’s Art - static.proko.com/media/images...
“Draftsmen” is available in audio. Subscribe on these platforms to keep up to date:
Spotify: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodSp
Stitcher: bit.ly/2JLMShh
Google: bit.ly/DraftsmenPodG
#artadvice #artinspiration #persistence
FOLLOW PROKO:
Marshall's Art - www.marshallart.com
Email Newsletter- www.proko.com/subscribe
Instagram - / stanprokopenko
Twitter - / stanprokopenko
Facebook - / prokotv
Tumblr - / stanprokopenko
Pinterest - / stanprokopenko
ABOUT DRAFTSMEN :
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/DraftsmenPod
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokopenko.com), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart.com/)
Production Assistance - Alex Otis ( / alexotisillustration , Charlie Nicholson ( / shloogorgh , Ellie Polk ( / the.mccartski )
Editing - Sierra Tillman ( / blu_perceptions , Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra

[@Draftsmen]

How do you react to positive feedback?

[@KiX-K4T13]

Negatively.

[@drawingpoetry2441]

I get offended

[@lynthomas5121]

It depends...

[@TheDarkPatito]

"you dont know what you are talking about, the composition is horrible, the perspective is off, you dont know anything about art!"

[@TheArtOfMind]

It depends. If there’s too many obvious mistakes, then I’m pretty abrasive about it. But, if I’m pleased with my work (which is hardly ever), I’m indifferent to it.

[@LALA-nk8pm]

Stan: My personality type is SEXY Marshall: [continues on talking] So going to miss you guys!!

[@parisulki729]

At first i've gotten really sad about Draftsmen closing. But, yeah, after hearing "We've already covered it in episode X!" multiple times, i am starting to understand the reasoning. Well, i enjoyed it while it lasted, thank you guys for valuable lessons!

[@bepinkfloyd814]

Proko and this podcast saved my Life. I was at the most low point when i discover proko channel, i needed some refresh in anatomy cause i had a test to get into a master in comics in university after my first degree in graphic art. I had way more knowledge from proko tha i had in 3 years from my university teacher. The podcast gave me some comfort while drawing and so much more that i can't thank enough. Some episodes about depression and stuff made realize why i was not having joy in my work since i started to study for It. I dropped out of the master and just start doing It for myself and found happiness again. I was at one point that for doing exams and keep on doing university i became a drug addict, i used speed and cocaine for not sleep, i did 5 days without sleep Reading books and drawing. My mind was collapsing. This podcast gave me structure in a Moment when i was in a costant chaotic state. Thanks guys, thanks from the heart.

[@mariadanielalavia8877]

This is such a good story man, I've been struggling with my art career ever since I started to draw at 18 years old (i'm 25 now) I struggled a lot with mental health and procrastinating college while also being jobless, and had a withdrawal problem from badly prescribed psych meds in june last year so I get the struggle. I had many hiatus of not drawing and now I started to draw ever since august 2021 and have been working a lot on improving my colour and anatomy skills it kinda felt like I fell in love with drawing again. Even if my end goal is getting better enough to get a professional job as an artist *no matter where nor how*, enjoying art again, doing things bcs it's fun, studying art fundamentals bcs your find then interesting and fun is what makes the whole journey worthy. I even managed to buy a gamer desktop just by selling commissions so I'm happy with where my art is going and I feel like I'm mature enough now to get most of advanced drawing books and tutorials. hoping you are doing great.

[@KaiVentura]

I think that I speak on behalf of everyone by saying that after that second voice mail, you guys should keep doing the Draftsmen show.

[@lynthomas5121]

Just sitting and thinking what a bad week this is and suddenly see that a new draftsmen episode is out 5 mins ago. Time to grab a coffee and enjoy. Love u guys and thank you 🙌

[@MasterTow1994]

Keep tight - the good thing about a bad week is that a week has an end :)

[@Panischa]

"They didn't know it would be on Netflix" made me crack up so hard XD

[@tchakhtchoukha]

Hey Draftsmen Team, Before you stop the Draftsmen Show, please make an episode about Art Projects Management and tips on managing multiple projects.

[@anthonymaringelli7478]

This would Be a good one, time management

[@TheCrimsonCat89]

I second this

[@nicks931]

Marshall is absolutely perfectly straight-faced and ignoring... And Stan bit hook, line, and sinker! Priceless comedy genius!

[@AMGK]

I’ve never liked to listening any podcasts, BUT I loved that I’ve discovered this podcast, which I love to listening, and now it’s gone???? Why 😭😭😭😭😭 I’m gonna miss this so much!

[@jeffstike3195]

I'm the guy that left that voicemail about the smoking weed and taking a personality test. I wasn't expecting you to actually play it bc of how many f bombs I dropped🤣 I'm so sorry if I would of known you would actually played it I would of taken it more serious and not ranted like a crazy person 🤣. Out the hundreds of voicemail I never expected you to play that one and out of the a few serious voicemail I left you chose that one Why??! 😂 Also pls don't turn that into a remix I don't think anyone wants to hear that. Lmao.

[@jeffstike3195]

@Kaitlin Jensma bc I didn't even know what my point was at the time of calling🤣🤣

[@ratelslangen]

I was fucking dying st that voicemail

[@bepinkfloyd814]

Lol

[@bepinkfloyd814]

I smoke weed every time i listen to this podcast while i draw Lol

[@fakeartgoddess_]

it was peak

[@oshoke04]

"i got the s-e-x-y personality type" "uhhh idk" lmao marshall is too funny dude

[@armyofcats]

Re. the classic drop-out student -- I was invited to give a talk about my work at a college (different age of students here in the UK than the US), and as I was setting up one of the tutors asked what I studied in college and university. I explained I dropped out of college and never went to Uni. The look on their face was priceless, as they asked me to please not mention that in my talk!

[@DaehanKim]

im gonna miss this podcast :(

[@KiX-K4T13]

It's okay, buddy. One thing ends...another begins. Friends go, new ones appear. Sunrise...sunset. We live...we die...

[@facto222]

:_(

[@thejagman22]

@@KiX-K4T13 thanks for the cheer up? 😭

[@johnny-mnemonic13]

@@KiX-K4T13 can u be my friend?

[@mikeg4691]

@@KiX-K4T13 Change is too hard

[@andyb.rodriguezart6558]

That second voicemail killed me, I hand to drop everything as soon as I heard their voice. Sounded very Passionate... 😂

[@victoriaculbertson8266]

Thank you for a rebrief on deliberate practice. Storytelling would be a great episode! Yes an art marketing agent would be great idea and an art marketing internships and getting an art marketing intern. Positive feedback to say thank you so thankful you are enjoying it. Put back it on the person giving the positive feedback. In my experience this usually causes the other person to go,on to,something else.

[@aaronbcole]

I landed the biggest commercial art agent in the world, knocking doors after college- ran well for almost a decade. Trying to get that back- been doing manual labor the past decade...

[@varuntulsyan2558]

I legit shouted out in joy when I suddenly saw a new Draftsmen episode on my feed!❤️

[@rennley_9233]

me too! though i'm at work and kind of forgot where i was. hahaha.

[@varuntulsyan2558]

@@rennley_9233 lol that's just great!

[@wmphatic]

Can we protest for the draftsmen podcast not to end, PLEASSEEEEE.

[@katlynequindiagan7743]

You guys are amazing you drop videos with on point topic of what I need the most. The timing is just so great.

[@arthurhenriquecm]

Learning how to make environments in 3D is one the best things I ever learned. Glad Marshall pointed that out! But yeah is very complex, you don't want your environment to feel like a playmobil set

[@Sour_Ink]

What are the benefits just curious? I been postponing 3-d but I know I should learn

[@arthurhenriquecm]

@@Sour_Ink For me it's waaay better for visualizing my background/scenario. It's hard to create like, a fantasy landscape with only drawings. So making it in 3D helps a lot 'cause you can see it in all the angles you want, and it makes the perspective right so you don't need to worry a lot about it. It's kinda hard to learn but once you do, you can create pretty much anything :)

[@firrycel]

this show is so refreshing , i love it , i just hope it continues forever, dont stop doing these together ! also Stan said he did the lgbq personality test =))

[@DonWippo1]

The Trouble with positive Feedback is really resonating with me. Personally I think a shy thank you is plenty fine. If you are kind of a business person you can tell them where to find more of your art and how to support you. The most awkward conversation regarding this I had back then is: Them: "This looks good." Me: "Yeah it is supposed to." Followed by long awkward silence. I learned from it and maybe you will too.

[@pigmalion93]

It's the first time I noticed Anna Bilińska's self-portrait in the background in your studio :) Kudos for appreciating her, she was an amazing artist, a bit overlooked by art history. Glad she's making a comeback, there was recently a monographic exhibition in Warsaw. There is a catalogue of all her works available in the National Museum, I highly recommend it. Greetings from Poland!

[@heyryanisonx3141]

weed guy is an ESFP 7w8 sx/so 748 SEE FLVE also, an episode (or even a whole podcast) devoted to story would be much-needed and much-appreciated :D

[@michalvelart9521]

Iam curious why you have missed Adam Duff as the special quest. On the other side when he got a few episodes about best digital artists/teachers on youtube to watch he didnt mentioned Proko. I was looking forward to the Draftsme episode with him.

[@Lobstrique]

i've just discovered your podcast and it's amazing and please someone help me survive your video thumbnails THEY ARE SO GOOD :DDDDDDDDD i can't feel ma cheeks from smiling

[@Shannaya17]

There will be another season of this amazing podcast we are blessed with?

[@tentenlazaro]

I miss these guys.

[@booleah6357]

The bob Ross thing is funny. The Kowalski's statement is basically we didn't know when you invited us and we went on we were gonna get caught! I love that reaction it's why r/prorevenge has some of my favorite stories.

[@ilillemarthe]

Nooo!!! Dont stop with the podcast!!! 😭😭😭😭

[@ns8158]

The way I approach compliments is just acknowledging it - "Thank you!" "Thanks, I appreciate it!" Online it also helps to just respond with a positive emoji - the biggest thing is to let people know that you saw them and value their input. If it's someone who has offered something more in-depth, thoughtful, or if I'd like to start a conversation, I'll acknowledge and then steer the conversation away from myself immediately - "Thanks! Yeah, I'm actually a big fan of [artist/movie/book]" "Glad you like it! You might like [artist]'s work too!" Accepting compliments with grace/class can seem difficult if you build a large following or have a post blow up on social media. You respond to a couple people, go do your daily grind, and then log back in to see 20 or 30+ comments. For my own general rule, I don't tend to respond to comments unless it's clear that there was some thoughtfulness put into it and I have something worth saying in return. And at that number of comments, I can just scroll through and respond to whatever ones I feel like. You'll waste way too much time trying to respond to everyone at all times unfortunately. But try to look at compliments as an opportunity for positive interactions, especially for artists who are still trying to grow into a sense of self-confidence. Being able to accept positive feedback on your work will really help you to feel comfortable in your own skin, both with your work and just as a person, especially if you're socially awkward & introverted like I am, lol.

[@AndrewMaksymBrainNectar]

I'm not mad you're back. But you guys scared us with the "We're quitting draftsmen".

[@KiX-K4T13]

They said they are finishing out the season. They mentioned it last episode.

[@pillo8644]

They actually still quitting the podcast. They said they gonna make a last voicemail episode.

[@rennley_9233]

@@pillo8644 WHAT?!? they're quitting? omg...i just found their podcast a week ago and i've listened to every episode. that's heartbreaking.

[@mariacamilagarcia9654]

They said that that was not the last episode, but that this is the last season. So... yeah, it is ending this year :')

[@AndrewMaksymBrainNectar]

@@mariacamilagarcia9654 😯😭

[@luka9911]

YOU GUYS ARE BACK?!

[@zanggittai4764]

I think this is among the last episodes of the show, If I'm not mistaken.

[@petarpehchevski3d338]

This is the last season, the previous episode was just not the last episode in the season

[@KiX-K4T13]

They said they are finishing out the season. They mentioned it last episode.

[@TheOneRioji]

God I miss this podcast!

[@aaronbcole]

I love your cover graphics

[@EllessarfromtheNorth]

its just the episode i needed.Goodbye procrastination

[@BCfightan]

So sad, I spent so long coming up with a good way to word my question, but with Marshall saying this is probably the last voicemail episode, they'll never get to hear it ;_;

[@rgb]

I think there is lot of content on art that's all about the "how".. "how to draw/paint", "how to study", "how to get a job"... there is very little content online about the "why". Why do we create art in general? Why do we create a specific piece? Why do we want to focus on a particular discipline or a particular style? I think these are a lot more interesting questions than the "how" type of questions.

[@YoshiMario69]

Yes indeed! You are getting into the CORE while most people are just interested in a fast path to the shiny surface. It takes wisdom to ask the Why. Everyone has their own personal reasons. I'm sure that there is also some kind of nature vs nurture debate to be had about why we like the things we like. Perhaps some of it is genetic, like instinctual, and some of it must be the kind of environment we grew up in. We may grow to hate or love our environment and its influence, be enamored of it or grow bored of it. Maybe we wanna make change happen if we went through sadness and pain. It's such a deep and interpersonal subject...

[@nonono9681]

38:58 Nah man, you guys are remembering it wrong, he didnt show his portafolio every year, he just went to see him. After 7 years mobius recogniced him and asked him for his portafolio and then give him some tips.

[@esteban-iriarte-animation]

An episode focused on storytelling on visual media sounds great to me.

[@heyryanisonx3141]

i second this!

[@stratovolcano7813]

This episode is so funny 😭😭😭

[@dukewindsorfineartstudio4789]

Read the book Thomas Kincaid: the Billionaire Artist. And do an episode on THAT story. Wow!!!

[@jeroen9637]

What do they sing in the leader? Something about shoes? I have no idea.

[@littleerichsenstudios2292]

Btw the episode cover painting is so hilarious, with Marshal's and Stan's expressions. Who paints these anyway?

[@seyyednaqvi6760]

Charlie photoshops their faces onto various paintings

[@sameerdeshpande8845]

Can we have a podcast about how you go about making the podcast cover images?

[@TheEdM3]

I don't get it, is this the final episode of season 3? Will there be a season 4?

[@finnikas6867]

For those who need help with marketing their art and starting their career, I recommend the youtube channel Art Business with Ness. The free videos provide a lot of information, and she also offers coaching and courses.

[@Ammon6]

That bob ross doc broke my heart

[@mrtibbs2]

Whats the name of the artist and the painting that you guys used for the thumbnail?

[@the_quiet_eye]

For the person looking for feedback about deliberate practice, I’d suggest finding an art teacher in your area, to coach you in person. Might take some looking to find one that suits, but you are in a large metropolitan area.

[@the_quiet_eye]

Also - everything Marshall said.

[@TheArtOfMind]

I’ve always wondered: Are those actual art pieces on the wall, or are they just prints?

[@johnnym9909]

They don't look like prints >.>

[@Z0sHu]

kowalski is like AI art nova days :D

[@dennisweber2494]

I feel for the dude that went to AI I went to ITT TECH and feel the exact same way.

[@hotdogstratus6533]

'People without talent will work harder' as someone with at least a little talent, I'm kind of spiraling here lol then again I have ocd so I'm probably the only one

[@sandwich336]

What a coincidence I also got the S E X Y personality type!

[@NicholsonSam]

the guy at 55:00 has the longest voicemail ever rant

[@yohenson]

Is this last episode or there’s more?

[@thefriendlyaspie7984]

i feel like the problem with artists is they dont know how to acknowledge how good they got, its like always comparing to others always why not treasure a complement of someone who can see how good you are to them. I feel like kinda dont appreciate your achievements and kinda talking yourself down for not being like such and such. which i feel is a bit not a good attitude to have. Talking yourself down cause you are not to like such and such. The road to art there is always room to improvement so why not allowing yourself to be happy for people who give you compliments, yes, know that you can constantly work on things to get better, or know were you want to work more on, but this is something that i see like the artist comunity can be very detrimental to the growth of person career or simple enjoyment of the craft.

[@Castal08]

"Stan cam" looks different than how Stan looks like in the "Main cam" - colder maybe less saturated. "Marshall cam" looks closer to the "Main cam". Sorry for the comment, it just caught my eye.

[@Triciatly]

I think it’s the red wall behind him, adjusted for saturation. It messes with the camera

[@mona_9990]

Hey Proko how are you?💕 PLEASE ADD SUBTITLES ARABIC 🙏🏻

[@NicholsonSam]

"this is why people hate you man!" lol

[@nononouh]

64

[@radoartcraft]

Wow I didnt know that they delete question comments from here. Kudos

[@dukewindsorfineartstudio4789]

One of the sons signed away his rights and didn't tell his brother.

[@Markerton]

Poor non artist they can't experience such a great content, petty souls ! hahaha

[@GabrielCastro-to8lb]

What if, let's say, I have destroyed almost my entire network, for I was too young in the past during college time, and I was digging into political and ideological public debates on social media to the point I only get big NOs as an answer from almost everyone? Despite the increasing quality of my craft.

[@yohenson]

Know your personality type? No. That’s limiting. We can be anything if we break habits. So why limit ourselves to “I’m that kind of a person”? I disagree with that. Not because it’s flattering to ourselves and gives us a stable moment. But because it’s just not true. A personality is a projection by ourselves and by others. It’s an imaginary thing. Sorry for the new Jim carry. But that’s how I feel bout it.

[@vanden1976]

I saw a communist baby at the end