Peter Godfrey-Smith - Philosophy of Biological Death

[@helendecruz1947]

A lovely short video and it did make me wonder what Peter's book will look like on this. Very much looking forward to it. I loved your octopus book and metazoa book.

[@UriyahRecords]

No1 Ever Really Dies... the dead don't know they are dead because the conscious never meets it the same way it never meets sleep

[@cujimmy1366]

Death maybe the end of life,but not necessarily the end of existence.

[@dukeallen432]

Oh how hard some try to sugarcoat the inevitable.

[@paultorbert6929]

Oh look, how cute……! People that claim to know something that’s unknowable…. How charming…….. (Just so neither of you gets too offended, your Faith on your respective fence-sides is what will save you or damn you).

[@dr_shrinker]

That would be a bummer.

[@msmd3295]

Life Is existence. When life ends do does consciousness. Without consciousness, what is life? It’s nothing. You make a claim there’s such a thing as existence after death provide evidence of that. Without evidence the claim you make is dubious at best.

[@100percentSNAFU]

​@@msmd3295You seem pretty confident in your claim without evidence though. What we define as "life" is not necessarily existence, it could very well be a simulation, a dream, some sort of purgatory, or any other number of things.

[@NothingMaster]

He started going through a tortuous argument, but I really enjoyed the fact that he was honest and humble enough at the end to essentially say: “I don’t know. That’s a great question, and I really don’t have an answer for it.” In my book, honesty and integrity are worth their weights in appreciation.

[@thejimmymeister]

I find "honesty and integrity are worth their weights in appreciation" to be very funny because all of those things are weightless.

[@Minion-kh1tq]

Brilliant video. Just brilliant. I'm just wondering if this material will be on the test.

[@genghisthegreat2034]

Helplessness before the only question that matters, is refreshingly closer to truth.

[@dukeallen432]

No. There is no helplessness. There’s knowing what happens to all other life forms will happen to us. Simple and again Liberating.

[@genghisthegreat2034]

@@dukeallen432 ....there are few life forms that can even envisage death, and arguably only one that, with consciousness ( us ) , can foresee the annihilation of it with existential clarity. We don't yet fully understand the seat of consciousness, or how it emerges from neural complexity. It's too early to say we simply share the fate of an amoeba.

[@ricverso]

It's our bad luck to die like this

[@100percentSNAFU]

This again goes back to are body and consciousness separate entities, or is consciousness part of the body, which there is no definitive answer to. This is important because if part of the body, consciousness would be destined to the same fate as the body. If separate, then not necessarily. And also if separate, what is consciousness composed of? Is it energy? If it is, then it is plausible that it can exist beyond the body because energy cannot be destroyed. I don't think we can know the fate of consciousness until we know first what it is, and i don't think this is a question we can answer.

[@CandidaProut-hr4uk]

It doesn't matter if death means the end. In fact it's better than an afterlife. Permanent retirement with NOTHING to worry about. I will NEVER have to paint a wall, fix a tap, go shopping, fix a ceiling or change oil in my car again. 🙏🙏🙏

[@mr.richardryan7506]

This is a materialist perspective and very shallow. We are eternal beings who pass on from this physical existance to a non physical realm. Perhaps to be repeated, over and over again. Until we get it right.

[@r2c3]

all physical objects seem to be affected by time somehow 🤔

[@r2c3]

@@halcyon2864 what is the "world of phenomena"... what is causing such phenomena... are these phenomena occurring randomly or do they emerge from something else more fundamental...

[@r2c3]

​@@halcyon2864something must be going on behind the scenes of 'life and death' cycles that we observe... and consciousness, as a concept, might be the answer to everything we can't explain and/or understand... but that doesn't mean we have to attribute all processes to that term alone, instead of accepting our inability to understand the true nature of reality and our existence within it... so while I acknowledge consciousness as playing a pivotal role in our reality, I'm reluctant of using consciousness as a blackbox interface between us and all phenomenas that we experience... so we either explain whst consciousness is and/or does or just accept our inability to do so...

[@r2c3]

​@@halcyon2864my comment for some reason is only visible if you filter the coments by time when presing the newest first button in top of the main comment section of the video...hopefully you can see this one...

[@ModernAdventures-w1u]

Earth is nothing but a torture chamber.

[@100percentSNAFU]

Purgatory.

[@rupesh_sahebrao_dhote]

Soul and Afterlife? First we need to understand the meaning of Soul. Broad opinion is that it is something within us and it travels after death That means it has to be of some Form because formless cannot travel.There is no such thing as Soul. It is just a concept of humans created out of Fear. If there is any Soul then we should have remembered our past lives. But we don't remember and hence the concept of soul contradicts the premises. So then Who are we ?. Will there be any injustice to anyone ? In this eternal cyclic movement every animate matter is nothing but Knowledge point. Your own continuation is their in the cyclic movement and according to your own actions you have to face new conditions. As the cycle progresses, so does knowledge point. Cycle continues forever and whatever is happening has happened and will happen exactly for infinitely. So nothing travels after death. It is such a marvelous design that moment you die your next continuation is ready somewhere in the cyclic movement as animate matter is nothing but Knowledge point. No injustice will be done with anyone from any angle. Existence and it's knowledge goes together. One cannot be without another. The only way this Principle can be in reality is through eternal cyclic movement with division of subject and object in it.

[@rupesh_sahebrao_dhote]

😊

[@browngreen933]

We spend decades gathering skills and knowledge only to wither and die. Makes no sense.

[@simonhibbs887]

Have kids, make stuff, leave a legacy. That's my plan, anyway.

[@dukeallen432]

Don’t have kids. Do stuff. Legacy meaningless. I’m good with not existing after I die. Liberating.

[@markb3786]

@@dukeallen432 the lack of wondering really is liberating

[@simonhibbs887]

@@dukeallen432 For me having kids is doing stuff, the best stuff I've ever done, and I've done a fair bit. I came to family and children pretty late. Now looking forwards to grandkids one day. We do seem to be on the same page generally though. You get one chance, make it count!

[@teleamor]

@@dukeallen432 - If your parents had that attitude, you wouldn't exist to "do stuff."

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

Life has a 100% mortality rate. Even so, "Existence" is all about the necessity to exist. It would be totally illogical for anything belonging to the superset called "Existence" to be handed over to the non-existing set of "Nonexistence." That would defeat the purpose of existing in the first place. ... *_"What happens in Existence stays in Existence!"_*

[@simonhibbs887]

I think it comes down to how we think about the existence of things, I'll deconstruct your position then propose a way in which it might work. We have discussed this before but I want to approach it from a different angle. I buy some materials and make a painting. The paints and the canvas already existed beforehand, and they still exist afterwards so I've not created anything new at the level of materials. I have created a new arrangement of those materials. I decide I hate the paining and I burn it. Every atom of the paint and canvas still exist, but they've been transformed into various new chemical forms by combustion. The painting no longer exists, but again in a fundamental sense the materials are all still there in a different arrangement. So did the painting 'exist' in the sense that you mean, or is that reserved for the materials? They have been in a variety of arrangements, from paint in bottles, ro a rolled up canvas, to a wet painted canvas, to burnt ashes. Do every one of all of those arrangements exist perpetually? Instead of a painting it could be a car, a computer, spaceship, or in principle a person. There are just different processes of creation. Is a person a substance, or an arrangement of substances? Do you see a significant difference in the way substances and arrangements of them exist? In the block time view, the universe exists in all states at all times equally. The current moment is a slice across block time. This view was a comfort to my father, a keen physicists and mathematician, in his later years. He liked the idea that his life might have a permanence in that sense, and it could be a way your view might work.

[@quantumkath]

​@@simonhibbs887Beautiful! This writing deserves to be a standalone comment rather than a reply.

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*"Every atom of the paint and canvas still exist, but they've been transformed into various new chemical forms by combustion. The painting no longer exists, but again in a fundamental sense the materials are all still there in a different arrangement."* ... I appreciate your willingness to discuss these complex siubjects. I more clearly understand your position with every exchange we have. *Answer:* Yes, once the painting is burned, the "evolved" physical structure of the canvas and the paint no longer exist in the form that they were originally presented (or manipulated into). All those tiny little fundamental components are released to go on and form some new type of structure, ... and this is where your ideology and mine part ways. However, the *information* attached to the painting still exists - and always will exist. It is information that was generated by (and for) "Existence" in order to better comprehend, define, and justify "Existence." The information the painting once presented exists for the same three reasons that the artist had for painting it. The painting, the artist, and the information generated throughout the entire time period of its existence is added to the collective "database of Existence" as it continues pushing forward and generating new information. "Existence" doesn't care about the loss of the "physical" painting as its sole purpose was to generate *new information.* An analogy would be if you read a book on how to improve your life, happiness, and self-worth, but your book was mistakenly tossed out by the wife. The "physical" book is of no importance once you've absorbed the information contained between its covers, ... so is everything about the book really "nonexistent" with everything written in the book actively playing out in your life? *"In the block time view, the universe exists in all states at all times equally."* ... My mind cannot accept a "block universe" because it posits that all information is already known, and that the universe is simply recycling the same data over and over. Nothing else I observe is doing that, so I don't believe the universe is doing it either. *"He liked the idea that his life might have a permanence in that sense, and it could be a way your view might work."* ... Every slice of information your father generated during his lifetime still exists. Your information will be joined with his (along with everyone else's information) once we pass on. Then we assimilate all of the "new information" generated by everything else (and everyone else) that follows throughout eternity. ... That's "Existence" my friend! The only factor we need to be concerned with while we are alive is what role our _personal information_ plays in its evolution. Does our information help to enhance "Existence" ... or work to destroy it? Lastly, I know you don't buy any of this, but at least it's being presented to you as a highly organized concept. ... That's what sparks your interest.

[@simonhibbs887]

@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC >'so is everything about the book really "nonexistent" with everything written in the book actively playing out in your life?' The information in the book, or at last much of it, is now encoded in my neurons so the information still exists - is still physically present in the universe. Nowadays with fMRI imaging an interpretive systems I could even read what I remember of the book loud in my mind from memory and it would be possible to transcribe the text, or at least a version of it. If the information once generates always exists, I suppose the question is what role does physical existence have if information can exist without it? The impermanent physical world we inhabit seems superfluous. Where is this information, a record of all past states of the universe in every detail? (now I put it that way, it seems very much like a block universe). Can it communicate with our universe? How? Is there any evidence for it? There are versions of the block universe concept, merging it with quantum mechanics, where the block is 'growing'. The present is the surface facing towards the future, but the future is undetermined. 'Existence' as you conceive it, as a database of all past states, seems very different from existence as we experience it. They seem like two fundamentally different concepts that 'exist' in completely different ways. >"That's what sparks your interest." Very much.

[@dr_shrinker]

@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLCso where does this information stay when the material form dissolves? It sounds like you advocate for duality, yet you sound more like a determinist. If information is more real than matter, then matter is determined by the information. If information drives matter, then how is that non-determined? Are you saying there are no rules for information to conform to?

[@ronhudson3730]

Everybody who ever lived is now dead, most lost to history. Does that mean their lives had no meaning. They certainly did to them and those around them - both positively and negatively. Our curse is that we have such rich emotional, mental and inter-dependant lives. They have real meaning to ourselves and those around us. We feel cheated at the thought that it all goes away forever at death. Maybe why we develop so much myth around death. Or equally maybe, it’s because as products of a process that existed long before the Big Bang, we have an intuitive sense that our being, developing, learning and loving is but one stage in an eternal process. Our ego and sense of self tends to make us see ourselves as apart and not part of an eternal process. I think death is a transition to a different state of being. What you ask? We’ll all find out - or we won’t.

[@erentxunlopez6281]

@ronhudson3730 Very INSIGHTFUL thanks ! !

[@100percentSNAFU]

Very good, especially your closing few sentences. That's been my point for as long as I've debated the subject. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but nobody will ever really know until that day comes.

[@tedgrant2]

It's nice to think we are different from all the other animals. That makes us special, therefore Jesus died for our sins.

[@peweegangloku6428]

Yes, there has to be an answer but certainly not an evolutionary one.

[@Bill..N]

It is very simple viewed from naturalism.. Death ENDS an animals existence, permanently.. No immaterial "forces" (an oxymoron) floats out of the brain to continue ones awareness, so NOW is the time to enjoy this incredible and magnificent reality around you..

[@markb3786]

Amen!!

[@teleamor]

Bill..N- You have no idea if there's an afterlife or not. Those that have had NDEs are far more qualified to speak on the subject than you.

[@Bill..N]

@teleamor NO, NDErs are the LEAST qualified to speak on this matter, in my opinion.. NDEs are not even close to a DEATH experience.. In an NDE, the brain is producing copious amounts of opiates and hallucinogenics in a chemical cascade friend.. Additionally, the person who survives the experience NEVER died!! This is an age-old myth/manipulation, in my opinion, nothing more..

[@dr_shrinker]

@@teleamorthere are more NDE survivors who report “blackness” than there are the floaters. 😅

[@teleamor]

@@dr_shrinker - And many NDE survivors who reported only "blackness" also report that after their recovery, they see and sense spirits and immaterial figures.

[@jerryodonovan8624]

‘Human being cannot bear very much reality’. T.S. Eliot.

[@harmarka5462]

That is 2 minutes I’ll never get back

[@rickwyant]

Robert is terrified of the thought of his demise. Closer to Truth is his way of relieving some of that anxiety. He's looking for salvation. There is none Robert.

[@mikel4879]

rickw • 😂🤣 Yes! Robert still thinks that by asking philosophers about the subject he will find the secret of living 1000 years. 🤣😂

[@northernlight8857]

Spot on

[@genghisthegreat2034]

But if there is a salvation, that'll be the mother of all " Oops ! "

[@Bill..N]

I have no special knowledge of what Robert THINKS, but I suspect his interests might be fueled by his intense curiosity as opposed to being "terrified.." Terror generally invokes aversion, but who knows?

[@northernlight8857]

​@@Bill..N We cannot read minds but it's the same sloppy and emotional thinking that leads so many people to believe in god(s).

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

conscious experience before mathematical design before evolutionary free will energy?

[@gkelly34]

I’ll be ok with it as long as I feel I’ve maximised my and utility somehow improved the world I lived in. And I’m not talking about having kids

[@mickeybrumfield764]

With all organisms being pre-programmed for self-preservation, we should look at it as a win for the species that we are resilient to the end.

[@dukeallen432]

Win for our species. Loss for millions of others. We are the “Virus with Shoes”. Breed less chimps.

[@k-3402]

We fight hard to win a game that's unwinnable.

[@mickeybrumfield764]

@k-3402 It feels like we're winning, though, if we get the best of our fellow human beings.

[@pascalguerandel8181]

Why worry about it! Hee hee haw willy 😁

[@Maxwell-mv9rx]

He processo life and deaths is obviys

[@S3RAVA3LM]

Everything: this way of life i'm of and how I conduct myself, all feels normal from having been made familiar to and in reality, in contrast to the infinite, I've only very recently arisen, and before that, was of the infinite, and there's no question about this. Death is something that he who confronts or is faced with, earliest on in life, is a blessing. What would you do, to what or who would you afford your precious time to, how would you think, why would you act or conduct yourself in a particular way when you realize death is right there. Such is basically the rebirth some of the religous mention of, and it is a blessing. Death isn't the opposite of life, rather birth. Folks, we're on a planet with fools. We ourselves are fools. Children having children; nuts leading nuts. Nature is the only and true teacher. The Divine shines forth & through all things. All participates in the revolution of this ALL, though in differing degrees. Don't worship an image, title, or belief. If you can't prove it yourself, you are not to believe in it. Do not live an exterior life akin to the materialists whom ignored the inner world, and are on a merry-go-round, incapable of realizing the endlessness of the transitory. It's all about concentration, disobjectification, retroduction, via negativa. There's a light in man. Nothing in nature is vain. That which is made Known reveals the Unknown - we know of the unknown through that which is Known. Some invest for the future, the successful ones live by this act. If you seek to invest for the future not of embodiment, Wisdom is that act. The heart of the world today is business, its blood its money. Persons forgotten about nature, modern man Lords it over all things. The persons today have perversed the internet, by the filth of the worldly mind. The morphine of dealing with today is entertainment, used to hoodwink man from reality. Men in want of power, without the responsibility - have you ever heard the president, politicians, teachers, police, intelligence agencies, mental health doctors, ever, ever.... give a Heart felt touching speech, a morale boosting Soul feeling quality of Goodness.... No...never.. not me anyways. 'such is life...' - Winston

[@S3RAVA3LM]

​@LifesInsight absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@blijebij]

Death is the contrast by which our lives gain meaning; it's the holistic complement of life

[@S3RAVA3LM]

Spirit is light. When a bulb blows, light didn't die. When there isn't any Illumination, doesn't mean there's no light. The illumination is the existential life.

[@jorgeruiz4074]

Yes but the bulb is you

[@S3RAVA3LM]

@@jorgeruiz4074 prove it. Buddha spent his entire life figuring this out.

[@S3RAVA3LM]

​@LifesInsight you're a shill. I wont be reading any of your comments.

[@gettaasteroid4650]

A pretty good firm is "Watch & Wait," And another is "Attit, Early & Layte" And still another is "Doo & Dairet;" But the best is probably "Grinn & Barrett" -Walter Doty

[@mikel4879]

😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@otakurocklee]

Define biological death.

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*"Define biological death."* ... Seriously? Wait around long enough and you will subjectively experience the definition.

[@bozo5632]

Never had a goldfish?

[@Bill..N]

Biological death may be defined as the death of a biological lifeform.. No? It's pretty simple and obvious..

[@dr_shrinker]

@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLCcan’t experience death, it’s the opposite of experience. It is non-experience.