Peter Pomerantsev - Lessons from WWII in Fighting Propaganda Using Black Disinformation Techniques.

Fighting propagandistic lies with more lies rarely works and runs the risk of eroding trust in your credibility and undermining your cause. However, there is a role for so-called Black disinformation in wartime. This deliberate dissemination of false or misleading information can be highly effective as part of a military operation. Information campaigns with the intent to deceive, manipulate, or undermine an adversary during warfare or conflicts is a tactic used to gain strategic advantages by sowing confusion and destabilizing the enemy. Classic examples of this weaponised subterfuge played an important role in Britain’s victory in WWII and can help to save many lives and shorten conflicts.
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Peter Pomerantsev is a Soviet-born British journalist, author, and TV producer. He has written two books about Russian disinformation and propaganda: Nothing Is True, and Everything Is Possible (2014) and This Is Not Propaganda (2019). Peter was born into a Russian speaking Jewish family in Kyiv, in 1977. In 1978, he moved with his parents to West Germany, after his father, broadcaster, and poet Igor Pomerantsev, was arrested by the KGB for proliferating anti-Soviet literature. They later moved to Munich and then London where Igor Pomerantsev worked for the BBC World Service.
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BOOKS:
Nothing is True and Everything is Possible: Adventures in Modern Russia (2014)
This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality (2019)
Ukraine in Histories and Stories: Essays by Ukrainian Intellectuals (Ukrainian Voices)
by Volodymyr Yermolenko with Foreword by Peter Pomerantsev (2020)
Black Earth City: A Year in the Heart of Russia (Charlotte Hobson and Peter Pomerantsev 2017)
How to Win an Information War: The Propagandist Who Outwitted Hitler (2024)
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ARTICLES:
www.theguardian.com/books/202...
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[@markb8468]

Fascinating and illuminating Mr Fink. Thanks and thanks to your guest.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍

[@j.dunlop8295]

Absolutely, it's use and foundations going back to Sun Tzu, the 'Art of War!"

[@stevenweiss2575]

Wow, that was a spectacular interview, and sold me a book as well.

[@markb8468]

Same...

[@stevenpace892]

"Everybody else is cheating" is exploiting a fear of missing out.

[@palestalemale1779]

Got to really recommend "Nothing is True and everything is possible"...great book about the insanity Russia was slipping into...

[@marijo1951]

I agree. It helps to clarify how Russia reached its current woeful condition.

[@ianbray5946]

As a submariner, i loved it 😊Excellent stuff mate. Thanks

[@Dada_ism]

We need so much more of this, and quickly!! Thank you for these excellent insights, lots of food for thought

[@sumiland6445]

💛💙💜💙💛 listening now, uninterrupted 😊 🇺🇦 🌏 🇬🇧 🇺🇸

[@garyfilmer382]

Great interview, thank you, extremely thought provoking analysis! Freedom is never free, or easy! Slava Ukraini!🇺🇦🔱

[@tanjalauramarketta]

I absolutely love Peter! Just finished his second book and can't wait to get my hands on the brand new one. All his books should be required reading almost bloody everywhere. Jonathan thank you so much once again, you truly ROCK ❤

[@spankflaps1365]

“They're a nation of automatons - led by a lunatic who looks like Charlie Chaplin.” ~ (Captain Mainwaring)

[@DarkestAlice]

Wonderful conversation - thank you very much, Jonathan, for having Peter Pomerantsev explain Sefton Delmer's campaign to us! 🇺🇦 Все Буде України! 🇺🇦

[@brendanlowrey4248]

It's hard to add anything to the comments of our fellow viewers as they have expressed the sentiments I have after watching this video. I enjoyed the video as it has presented insights I have not heard before, and that's what I enjoy watching your videos. Well done and very well presented. Thank you.

[@djparn007]

Thank you, Jonathan. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

[@laufrie4113]

Thanks a lot, I'm very happy about this interview! It is amazing to listen to such guests.

[@fourthchute]

Thank you Johnathan--Peter never disappoints to bring some good insights.

[@imbunata]

Fantastic one, thank you!

[@paulwhite6995]

Best ever episode, with Peter Pomerantsev.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍👍👍

[@zachscully]

Learning from WWII anti-propaganda history how matching the emotion first, then re-educating, may allow us to defeat disinformation in the 21st century. Enculted minds have cooperated to fuse with their dear leader and lose responsibility…and perhaps leading them along their emotion train to healthier groups with more ethical goals will allow them to re-identify with the brighter parts of themselves and make better choices and relationships.

[@KennethiSlite]

Thank you for a interesting episode. Keir is always clear in his argumentation based on relevant and solid facts. Really interesting!

[@ekesandras1481]

I once heard an archived radio feature made by the BBC in the winter of 1942 in Bavarian language. It was increadibly good, with emigrant Bavarian actors who staged an informative, yet also entertaining and amusing anti-Hitler propaganda show. It was a Karl-Valentin-like all-stars cabaret show of the best emigrant artists they could get. I was really surprised that the BBC back than had such great situational awareness to realize that a Bavarian/Austrian audience had to be targetted completely differently than people in Berlin or Hamburg. Maybe they just told the emigrant editors to do whatever they thought was helpful, but still, they allowed it to happen and broadcasted it all over Europe so that the last Bavarian/Austrian soldier in Stalingrad or Crete could hear it and maybe start to think.

[@anniecarola]

I love your your channel so much. This interview was interesting as usual! 👏

[@SiliconCurtain]

Thank you so much!

[@LisaNH934]

Listening now ...👍 TY

[@hififlipper]

Nice to be first to see that.

[@hififlipper]

It has become the main topic to loose my nerves to.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍👍👍

[@yeshechangchub6914]

wikipedia The concept is first described by philosopher of language John L. Austin when he referred to a specific capacity: the capacity of speech and communication to act or to consummate an action. Austin differentiated this from constative language, which he defined as descriptive language that can be "evaluated as true or false". Common examples of performative language are making promises, betting, performing a wedding ceremony, an umpire calling a foul, or a judge pronouncing a verdict.[1] Influenced by Austin, gender studies philosopher Judith Butler argued that gender is socially constructed through commonplace speech acts and nonverbal communication that are performative, in that they serve to define and maintain identities.[

[@TKMcClone]

Great guest, fascinating history bites! Propaganda is more than marketing's evil cousin. I just watched a Jim Sciutto (new book) interview on The ReAlignment, he might be a decent guest if you're looking. 💙💛

[@mryouben]

Greetings to putlers trollbotboys

[@markb8468]

Oh...where are they? They've been on a roll of late. Oh...maybe they're voting. 😆

[@LisaNH934]

​@@markb8468HaHa 😂 👍

[@dannydetonator]

@markb8468 Yep, slacking off or binned by Johnatan here. However, in the latest releases on SC they're back with vengence, trying to match the number of educated listeners. I can clearly see how these are centralised disinformation operations. Check out 9th of may interview about useful-idiots and peace negotiations. The farm certainly didn't dispense holidays for the "victory day".

[@dannydetonator]

@markb8468 Here it looks like that, but they're back with vengence in more popular releases of SC. Just look at 9th of may interview about useful-fools and peace negotiations here. Just a targetted campaign against Johnatan, no holidays for the farm on their "victory day".

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Back in WWII we had Walt Disney in the US to handle domestic information warfare. Uncle Walt was kind of fascistic himself-He feted Riefenstahl & Goebbels, but once the war started he decided that he was a nationalist first & a fascist second. You work with what you got.

[@epincion]

Sadly in recent times US Nationalism has fused with fascism into the white Christo-nationalism that is the Republican Party today.

[@moxie_ST]

Great stuff, thanks for illuminating and refreshing information that I needed repeating. ❤

[@j.dunlop8295]

Propaganda is incredibly subtle, and if funny and witty yet true propaganda, is/was/ needs be much more likely to catch on to be repeated! Like Sad Sack and GI joe, cartoons, these enraged commanders yet enlivened soldiers, and motivated! Soldiers knew others shared their experiences!

[@ned900]

Wow. lots to go on there.

[@dannydetonator]

Wow, after studying disinformation and propaganda for over 2 years, i have missed mr. Pomerantsev, one of the greatest experts and authors. Just knew his name and nothing more up till today. Found another interview of him with an order of magnitude smaller engagement than this, already underrated one. Detractors and autocratic useful-fools get audiences in millions, while here is just a couple of K listening. It's not looking good for democracy and greedy social networks are in large part to blame for this. Wars, now hybrid-ones are won or lost by this kind of education. Situation is uneasy, but people like this give us hope. Слава Украïнi🔱

[@IBACb]

Pomerantsev should appear on Fox.

[@markb8468]

And on every news outlet...

[@spankflaps1365]

Fox is blatant Russian propaganda, heavily curated and censored. Murdoch just got engaged to Abramovic’s M.I.L.

[@briseboy]

Explain your preference for his appearing on the US most prominent and popular disinformation forum.

[@davidwright5094]

@@briseboyGuessing it has to do with which forum's audience could most benefit -- at least potentially -- from exposure to this particular speaker's perspective.

[@yrmanja]

Why Silicon Curtain approved that P should appear on Fox?

[@LisaNH934]

Thanks!

[@laurie9557]

It would have been helpful if your guest provided several specific examples.

[@lianapomeranzev9862]

bravo!

[@ClimateScepticSceptic-ub2rg]

All these excellent points apply also to the other major threat of our age: climate change, and the well-financed effort to stall and minimize our move away from fossil fuels.

[@dannydetonator]

Probably there are big money spent on propaganda from oil companies, but the science and economies are not so solid yet to go all green-powered. It's as complicated as economy itself. No clear solutions are at hand right now, unless we stop buying China's "green tech" with by far the worst pollution record from all countries. Neither do we know exactly how much fossil fuels we have available as a planet yet. At least we can have a discussion with genuine scientists and experts, if politics are put aside and paid shills are called out on this topic. Geopolitical hybrid-war is whole another and more painful one.

[@WalterBurton]

Are we going to talk about Edward Bernays and Esalen and whatnot?

[@WalterBurton]

👍👍👍

[@crimeajewel]

Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦 ❤😊

[@djparn007]

Heroiam slava! 🇺🇦 Slava 💙 💛

[@victorzarenin9286]

What's going on in America is so deeply sad, to think that the world's first and greatest experiment in democracy might finally end. And at the hands of a ridiculous orange reality TV clown. Just beyond belief.

[@123fishpond]

Methinks you are a victim your own national self propaganda that is not what other nations think of you.

[@123fishpond]

I agree about the orange clown but google “ the worlds strongest democracies “ Iceland I think is the oldest

[@phillee2814]

@@123fishpond Iceland is the oldest and the Isle of Man the longest continuous democracies, respectively, iirc.

[@j.dunlop8295]

Absolutely, (propaganda)it's use and foundations going back to Sun Tzu, the 'Art of War!" Motivational or demoralizing! 😅🇺🇦💙🚀🛩️

[@j.dunlop8295]

These S-2 types, military intelligence, had the attributes of over thinking everything, editing their understanding is the true craft or skill of great intelligence! (Depression comes from over thinking!)

[@sallywilton2236]

The quality of these interviews exceeds anything remotely similar on KZbin.

[@annanesterov7566]

Completely unrelated but can i just say that Pomerantzev is so so fucking hot!!! 🔥

[@SiliconCurtain]

🤣

[@WalterBurton]

You've got to first stipulate a coherent idea of *agency* before you start talking about what propaganda enables vs extracts, etc.

[@yrmanja]

I wonder if Pomerantsev is getting more and more similar to Surkov? It is very easy to imagine Surkov saying : we want more corruption in Ukraine, we do not want less corruption in Ukraine.... ha, ha, ha-what a black avantgarde

[@buddyrojek9417]

Ukraine just had to send balloons to Russia with photos of life in Ukraine, toilets in houses , good roads , and explaining that joining Europe is a better life . Better still, radios 📻 and play some interesting music , sprinkled with programming that will convince Russian soldiers to defect and join freedom Russia or the Ukrainian army

[@94manorviewclose]

Ha😂

[@luminyam6145]

The Americans were absolutely blown away by the brilliance of British propagandists in WW2.

[@W_Bin]

Here's some white information: Ukraine War Live Chat w/ VLP on Kicking Russia out of the UNSC

[@donotmislead]

This person earned tremendous money by working on Muscovite TV during the second Chechen war, the invasion of Georgia and the Tuzla incident when Muscovy tried to annex Crimea for the third time. And he ignored all those events completely, meaning that he is not moral enough to be interviewed about the Muscovite-Ukrainian war, so dislike and report are well deserved, while being already unsubscribed.

[@sailawayteam]

So, nobody should be allowed to change their views and talk about it.

[@donotmislead]

People are changing sometimes, but the facts always remain. He took the bloody Muscovite money, and not just once under the pressure, but quite willingly for ten years.

[@terryhand]

I have no reason to doubt what you say is true, but Pomerandsev has subsequently been an ardent critic of Putin. However, he does have a deep understanding of how propaganda works and for that reason his views are worth listening to, whilst at the same time being aware of his history on Russian TV. Thank you for pointing this out and I hope you have not unsubscribed.

[@donotmislead]

Nothing can justify or negate the fact that this disgusting, opportunistic person took the bloody Muscovite money being well aware of mass murdering perpetrated by the Muscovites. And the Muscovite president does not care about the critics anyway, there are millions of them.