Peugeot PURETECH Fix Is Here - All You Need To Know

[@halftimealready5694]

Hi all, good news - I have actually been in touch with guy hoping to produce this chain conversion. He is currently awaiting EU approval of the kit. Once done, (he has no timescale sorry to say), but if all goes to plan, the kit will be cost €400 + vat, but will only be sold to businesses( garage/dealers for them to fit. He expects fitting to be done after the wet belt removal job and will take about 1 hour extra than the normal wet belt job. So it's wait and see at the moment but looking hopeful. Hope this eases our minds a little, sounds maybe a bit dear, but the average cost of the wet belt job in total is about the same price, ( plus the labour),but you have the satisfaction your belt isn't going to shred any time soon. Sounds ok to me. Any further info will post to that effect😊

[@ScottishCarClan]

Pinned! Thank you

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

cela ne resoudra pas le probleme deconsommation d huile!!

[@KeithMoore-fz7re]

I'd rather put more oil in than do the belt job everytime the strainer gets full of crap!

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

@@KeithMoore-fz7re you have right! it s better but not the solution! if you drive highways you maybe have no problems this motor must be warm because the block is on aluninium and the rings of the pistons is on iron but have a segment games too big and iron to alumimium you damage the cylinder! sorry for my bad english

[@halftimealready5694]

I understand. Cheers

[@arthurdardalis]

I work for the Stellantis importer here in Greece. Stellantis have changed the oil specification numerous times in order to attempt to cure the oil consumption and the belt degradation, the oil itself doesn’t actually harm the belt but the remnants of the combustion process which contaminate the oil and attacks the belt. The revised belt from Dayco is apparently “OK” The recommended oil now is Total Quartz 5/30 RCP not that water thin 0/20. My advice is to completely ignore the ridiculously long oil change intervals and to change the oil every 5000miles max. I have a 2023 Peugeot 308 130PS 1.2 company car, the wet belt was toast at 20kmiles… I noticed it whilst topping up the oil, thankfully didn’t have the oil pressure issue as the belt had just started to fray on the outer edges.

[@jimzigouris]

man oh man the main problem still exist

[@Zgurkogel]

I strongly believe that short oil change intervals are the best insurance to avoid the belt disintegrating. As you said, oil contamination (read: repeated short journeys saturating the oil with petrol) is what kills wet belts.

[@jaumepeppigat5712]

Belt replaced at 52.000 km and 0:00 looking like new. No rubber debris. Car hardly ever used in town and start/stop option disabled. Since I'm aware of belt problem (bought end 2018) I'll change oil every 5.000 km. No oil consumption and happy with te C 3 Aircross. Euro 6.2 norms are the problem.

[@Romeo_GR]

I have an Opel Crossland 2021 (facelift) 1.2 80 cv aspirated....also in Greece. I bought it brand new . First oil change in 900 km, second oil change in 3000 km and since then every 10000 km strictly! It is one of my five cars , so I have the luxury to never use it in urban roads or carry heavy loads . I always diasble that stupidity called "start n stop" ! Almost 40.000 km today and everything is fine. Still I find very interesting the change of oil specification, reported by my countryman above...I 'll surelly check it out soon

[@arthurdardalis]

@@Romeo_GR if your car is non-turbo, the 0/20 is still valid. The 5/30 is for all turbo engines type EB2ADTxxx

[@marcohillenga5068]

What you said at around 1:20 is totally true. People are saying this a lot of the time. But in reality I have had 5 EcoBoost engines which were scrap (belt failure) Those cars were all maintained properly. Sometines we see a belt hold out the service interval, sometines (especially PureTech) fail already at 40k km. It is nothing more than pure garbage.

[@alexandruchivu7327]

Ai ai ai... asa de adevarat si trist! Din pacate au facut un motor de unica folosinta... pe care sa l schimbam o data cu placutele de frana, de a dreptul penibil. Ce e pacat, modelele pe care a fost montat sunt f attractive dar pur si simplu le au scazut valoarea si durata de exploatare montant acest motor de rahat.

[@claudio6493]

I had a Citroen C3 1.0 with Puretech petrol engine 3 cylinders after 50.000 miles I started having issues with lower oil pressure caused by a welt belt ! After replacing the wet belt the engine started to oil consumption ( around 1 lt of oil every 500 miles!!!) Now I drive a used Fiat 500X with 1.6 Multijet 2 diesel engine after 2 years I never spent a penny on it!

[@johnathanpearson3203]

Have you serviced the fiat?

[@claudio6493]

@johnathanpearson3203 yes at local Fiat official dealer...

[@quidelicia1]

I´m sorry to ask you this, but did the dealer assumed the cost or did you paid part of it too? could you tell how many it costed? thanks in advance.

[@claudio6493]

@quidelicia1 morning... Yes I confirm that Citroen UK was really efficient and we agreed that they pay all cost unfortunately the citroen authorised garage near Glasgow made a mistake while replacing the timing belt... But this is another story.........

[@LagartoPT]

Multijet engines have a timing chain instead of a belt that's why they are a bit noise , but i can live with that.

[@RobertPerry-e4r]

I'm on my fourth Peugeot / Citroen with this engine, two 208's and two C3s. First two cars 60,000 and 50,000 miles respecitvely annually serviced, topped up with correct Total Oil, belts changed at 6 years old, no problems. I then bought two newer ones to replace the old ones and I believe if you maintain them correctly then no issues.

[@drosser8461]

I take it you still believe in Santa Claus also. Best of luck next month😳

[@RobertPerry-e4r]

@ Me and Greg Lake

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

tu as changer les vehuciles avant les problemes! heureux pour toi mais je penses 20 000 km de plus tu pleures!

[@leneanderthalien]

pas très représentatif car avec de si faibles kilométrages, pas étonnant de ne pas avoir de problèmes: mon moteur a commencé a consommer de l'huile a partir de 90000km et ça n'a fait qu'empirer (1L d'huile pour 1500km!) jusqu'à la casse du moteur à 115000km (segmentation HS, 1 piston fondu) et ceci malgré des vidanges tous les 10 000km/ou 1x par an...La courroie avait été remplacée à 100 000km (était en assez bon état) et la crépine vérifiée (propre)

[@solarflare2199]

Total Ineo First 0w-20 ?

[@largo6644]

In balance, best cars were made in the '90s: they were enought reliable and got power steering, air conditioning, electric windows, EFI and ABS, but no canbus, no electronic throttle, no OBD2, etc: they're "modern" but easy and cheap to repair. I highly recommend to get a low mileage good car from 1992 to 1997, and enjoy it for many years. Not an "expensive - spares" one (Mercedes, BMW): just get a good and "normal" car and avoid all kind of problems, taxes, etc: simply be happy. Greetings from Patagonia, Argentina ! 🇦🇷

[@neilpalihakkara6809]

Agree with the idea, Would love a1992 to 1997 car ...however living with Sadiqs ULEZ means all of these are out for me , unless you have no need to travel into the zone. I therefore recommend any simple non turbo petrol around 2002/3 on . Get something like a CRV, Civic , reliable everything needed ...chain cam too....

[@robgraham9234]

Funny but in the 90’s people were complaining about how impossible to repair the cars were and how we needed to go back to the 70’s😂

[@hedydd2]

90’s saw many dry belt failures and up to some time in the 90’s, dry belts had a similar bad reputation as wet belts currently have.

[@danjackson2014]

Sadly. In Europe the government has tried very hard to remove all of these cars from the roads.....with various scrapage schemes, and High taxes...

[@alexandruchivu7327]

From 2000-2010, simple electronics, reliable, not expensive cars... now, electronics and cost reductions everywhere

[@robgraham9234]

Strange, but having worked for a major roadside rescue company for 22 years I have never had to tow a car due to a broken wet belt. They always gave warnings. Towing cars, usually BMW’s with broken chains pretty much on a weekly basis.

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

oui le fameux 1l6 BMW fabrique en collaboration avec PEUGEOT c est une chaine de velo qu ils ont montes la dessus! et le tendeur qui casse!

[@quidelicia1]

First this engines start to blink oil pressure light, because the internal part of the belt started to dissolve and this "broken wet belts parts" goes to the oil restrainer. This repair at Portugal is about 4.000€, for a dealer, at others shops you can have a lighter repair bill, but the "normal shops" usually don´t gave you warranties knowing the "quality" of the product. this repair, if does not broke the belt, may cost about 30 to 50% do the car´s value.

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

@@quidelicia1 et apres vous consommer de l huile! voila la suite

[@erik.m0110]

They usually clog up the oil strainer long before the belt breaks. One of our customers at work wrote off their Ecoboost engine by driving 50 km with the oil light on lmao

[@mabisfab77paintball]

not the chain that breaks but the plastic parts bmw put in the engine that break first

[@mysgd02]

Looks like a well thought out solution to the problem matey.

[@simonbowens4489]

Why didn't the manufacturers think of it? The likes of Honda ans Dacia must love this hitch..

[@zorankomadina7540]

After 20 years 1.6 HDI I changed camshafts , few walves , and made big service. Stil runs 😂

[@bbkengineering6612]

fuck ı chnaged turbo 4 times in my volvo

[@zorankomadina7540]

@bbkengineering6612 my turbo is garrett 400 000 stil running. Be gentle first 20 min when driving especially when it is cold and change oil every 10 000 km , if you driving fast give 1 min rest to turbo before you switch off the engine and you will be fine.

[@zorankomadina7540]

@bbkengineering6612 if it is 1.6 it is the same engine

[@nsz2302]

I had a 2.0 ecoblue diesel with the famous wetbelt. Guess what?! At 124000kms the timing jumped on a cold winter night leaving on the side of the road at -12degrees celsius. PHUN!!!

[@hedydd2]

That’s 77,000 miles. The current model modifications in components and decreased service intervals should make this a very rare event in future. On older vehicles it may be safer to change the oil at a maximum of 12,000 miles/one year and the belt at 60,000 or six years, whichever comes first.

[@michvod]

The actual cause for the 1.2 PureTech to burn oil, even if there were no belt issues or were solved before any oil starvation would occur is they have really soft cylinders, but the piston rings are really stiff so they will slowly wear away the cylinder and make it oval shape. My mechanic joking said that the only thing would be to create oval piston rings to solve the wear issue, which of course isn't possible to make. They actually discovered that engines were totally fine, but then out of a blue they started consuming lots of oil, usually after 100k km, just as the cylinders got worn over that point where the oil rings were still sealing. So that means the engine really is garbage, even if you replace the belt few times and service it every 5k km, it will stil bite you in the ass long before you reach 200k km

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

tout a fait! et c est encore plus rapide pour ceux qui ont un turbo!

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

d accord avec toi la seule solution a mon avis c est de mettre des chemises en fonte dans un bloc alu sa me parais debile! donc faut refaire un bloc fonte ou acier! bilan plus de 100 000 moteur a mettre a la poubelle!

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

yes you have right it s the main problem

[@leneanderthalien]

@@dominiquebaumgarten8010 ? des chemises en fonte dans un bloc alu est tout à fait courant et beaucoup de moteurs très durables ont cette configuration et ça ne pose absolument aucun problème lorsque c'est fait correctement...Les blocs fonte sont souvent MOINS durables, car les alésages des cylindres sont taillés directement dans le bloc et la qualité de la fonte du bloc est nettement moins bonne (bloc acier ça n'existe pas).L'usure du 1,2L puretech a PLUSIEURES causes: en premier l'injection directe: d'une part à froid, ça lessive complètement les parois des cylindres (les segments frottent à sec),et ça lessive même les cylindres à forte charge à chaud (et pollue l'huile ce qui détruit la courroie de distribution!) , car la brumisation n'est jamais aussi efficace que la VAPORISATION qui se produit sur un moteur à injection INDIRECTE grâce au temps de parcours plus long du mélange, de plus les microgouttelettes de l'injection directe ne se consument pas de la même façon que le mélange vaporisé (quasi gazeux): il se forme pour chaque micro gouttelette, un noyau de carbone= micro particules, et ces particules, se mélangeant a l'huile des parois de cylindres, finit par encrasser le haut des pistons, puis les segments et enfin les canaux de retour d'huile des pistons et qu'est -ce qui se passe lorsque les segments sont grippés?: rabotage des cylindres (usure rapide), et racleur inefficace (consommation d'huile) allant s'amplifiant du fait de l'augmentation des fuites (blow by), sachant que ça arrive très tôt car contraîrement à ce que certains disent les segments sont très fins et a FAIBLE TENSION (pour réduire les frottements), ils se grippent donc facilement...après il y a tout un tas d'autres problèmes, quantité d'huile trop faible (sur le 1.0L Ecoboost de Ford similaire au puretech, le carter contient 2L de plus!!!) + intervalles de vidanges trop importants, conception globale du moteur à l'économie, bref un moteur loupé conçu par de jeunes ingénieurs qui ont complètement ignoré les erreurs du passé et les erreurs faites par d'autres constructeurs (VAG a eu les mêmes soucis (en pire!) sur ses TSI/TFSI sortis avant, et Ford pareil , mais dans une moindre mesure car moteur mieux conçu

[@leneanderthalien]

@@dominiquebaumgarten8010 n'importe quoi, car tous les moteurs modernes ont depuis 50ans un bloc en alu et des cylindres en fonte, soit amovibles, soit insérées par différence de t°, des moteurs bloc fonte je crois que les derniers c'était au début des années 2000...

[@nickprince8623]

Replaced my wet belt last year at 40k 6 years old, it was showing signs of early degradation but no debris in the sump strainer, I’m a firm believer if the correct oil is used and replaced every 12 months then I will have no issues, also my 1.2 130bhp prue tech doesn’t use a single drop of oil between yearly oil changes

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

tu consommes de l huiles a partir de 80000 km c est la segmentation qui est pas adaptee et les cylindre s ovalisent car ils sont en alu!

[@WillyHollougby]

Yep, same here. My 1.2 Puretech 130 gets regularly serviced by an independent. Just had the belt done as it was six years old. 700 pounds all in, new belt good for ten years.

[@PaulRFRT]

Avoid all Stellantis group brands if you are looking for recent and reliable car with after-sales service. Former owners of a 1.2L Puretech 110hp, we only had problems with faulty segmentation, excess oil consumption from 60000 km, 1L every 1000 km, ventilation broken, belt in the oil to replace, speakers sometimes broken. We understood that keeping this Peugeot would be a financial pit. We sold it to a professional because Peugeot, well aware of the problems with their cars, does not do trade-ins. Thanks for the video

[@stragulus]

Same for our Citroën with that same 1.2L 110hp engine. Luckily the garage that sold it to us, thinking it was good because it was a first-owner fully dealer maintained car, took pity on us and took it back. Sad thing is I knew upfront it was a troublesome engine, but the car was also about 5k euro cheaper than an equivalent non-Stellantis car and I figured I'd get away with it as we don't drive much. Well, nope. Short trips actually wear down this engine like crazy. It's insane you can't even buy some cars for what should be considered normal use.

[@RikAindow]

Such a fall from grace for Peugeot. I have a 2007 Mondeo which has a Puegeot HDi engine and it's been a great engine. I've just had a new timing belt and waterpump fitted, at 233,000 miles and it only cost £250 at my local garage as it doesn't need any of the stupid work doing that plague wet belts.

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

tu as tout dis il y a plusieurs problemes qui s ajoutent le principal probleme n est pas la courroie ce" probleme n est qu une consequence mais la plus visible le probleme principal est la segmentation qui laisse passer l essence au demarrage ou quand le moteur est pas chaud dans le carter d huile! d ou usure de la courroie qui aime pas l essence deuxieme probleme les segments sont pas assez serres donc l huile remonte du carte et brule donc bloque les segments bilan on augmente le probleme d usure de la courroie en plus l huile qui remonte brule donc se cookefie et bloquent les segmemts donc augmentations des problemes precedendts de plus le cylindre est en alu segments en acier pas besoin d etre ingenieur ce moteur est prevu pour se detruire! et c est pas une chaine un changement d huile qui va le fiabiliser

[@markbiggart1265]

I have a 2022 1.2 and adore the engine. So much character and sips fuel. I believe the wet belt was improved for this model year but would still be interested in the chain conversion kit for sure.

[@starkead]

no it's not, and Stelantis will have to face in court in France for that

[@joaomac7]

Is Portugal are giving 10 year warranty if car have serviços in manufacturer….. Many cars already change belt or motor during warranty time.

[@thephilpott2194]

Erm....Mark, do you work in the showroom at Arnold Clark, Linwood by any chance..? Best not use the word 'character'. It gets you rumbled straight away.

[@markbiggart1265]

@@thephilpott2194 haha thankfully I don’t 😂

[@antonandreevich5838]

wait till you get it to 40-50k miles, gonna love it even more

[@NomadJRG]

Whoever came up with the idea of a wet belt needs to be fired

[@JOHNWILSON1944]

Out of a cannon.

[@Jisei13]

As a non car engineer I don't understand why they couldn't use the wet belt with a chain? Purely to save them a couple of quid on metal vs rubber. Would have made their engines infinitely more reliable and improved customer faith in the company. Very strange

[@obelic71]

@@Jisei13 VW had some serious problems with their timing chains on their TSI (especialy the 1.4 TSI) Lots of that type of engine croaked due to premature timing chain failure. A wet belt is not a saving on parts but a enginering solution for the downsizing of engines. Also 1 and 3 cillinder engines run much rougher then even or more cilinder engines. The wet belt was used to get a 3 cilinder engine run much smoother by reducing friction, increasing output, lower fuel use and so reducing emissions. In the laboratory conditions it was all fine, in practice serious problems surfaced. On the PSA/Stellantis 1.2 puretech (wet belt) the dis advantages just outweigh the advantages. Very recently Stellantis produces the 1.2 puretech engines with a timing chain and some other modifications .

[@Fred_the_1996]

@@Jisei13 because they can claim marginally better mileage and pollution. Most buyers dont even know what a wet belt is, so they just see an engine that sips less fuel and think it's better

[@carlosgilpinheiro7510]

There is a lot of engines with chain problems, dry belt problems or oils consumptions since I remember. Not the XU or TU PSA engines but if we check Alfa Romeo, BMW or even Honda engines they have problems with oil consumption (oil dilution or timing chain or dry belt failures). . Wet belt suffer from oil dilusion in petrol and this depends a lot from the kind of usage, oil consumption of 1L per 1000kms is a normal thing in other brandsm even in their user manuals they have that info!! . What is stupid is the oil specs used nowadays, 0w20, 0w30 or 5w30 are stupid termic specs, 5w40 is a lot better engine to control consumptiom and to protect the engine friction at high revs and hot seasons. . If I had one of these engine and the way I drive I'll never use other than 5w40 and chande the oil every 10~12k km. I bet the oil consuptiom will be more controlled and the belt will be preserved a lot better. . I have a PSA TU5JP4 engine and I use 10w60 oil spec because the way I drive and use revs the oil need to be thicker to protect the engine. (335k kms)

[@scottishcarenthusiastsandtrain]

As the owner of a Puretech powered C4 Cactus this is good news that a chain kit is available, but sadly I will be selling my Cactus Shortly, heard too many horror stories about this engine on the forums and club pages that makes me want to sell it.

[@s2000.]

I really love those early C4 cactuses, shame the petrols like this (for some reason also costs over 7k € here). Is yours consuming oil? Heard diesels are reliable but then its a tractor.

[@scottishcarenthusiastsandtrain]

@@s2000. Diesels have their issues with the adblue system, a lot of people map the adblue system out of the car.

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

@@s2000. you eats oil about 80 000 km maybe 100 000 if you aren t have turbo so if you changes your car every 50 000 km no problems

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

@@scottishcarenthusiastsandtrain ad blue is a ecolo mistake i tink but not try because i have no car with adblue you put water for adblue and it s work not english so ..

[@vitorsousa7209]

TUs were the best. I own a 205 1.1 counting 260k km, no problems

[@rmelilloii]

This is fantastic, thanks for the news.

[@paulratnage2663]

Hi thanks for the update, my son would be interested in the upgrade to chain as he has a 2020 208. We where totally unaware of this issue when he purchased the car.

[@cmagennis927]

“Serviced at a main dealer” means jack shit! They aren’t using the genuine correct grade oils, they buy gallons of universal oil which would be similar but not the exact specification. Also when cars are on free service plans the dealers do the absolute minimum to the cars to save them money. I’m speaking from first hand experience of working in several main dealers after sales departments.

[@foxa3658]

Exactly that !!

[@bluf1986]

In Croatia my official Citroen dealer waited that my 5 years warranty expire and after that change belt on 83000km. Now i have to change new engine because old one is wasted, on completely new car, every year maintained at official dealer.

[@shaunshepherd9097]

Very true!

[@OH2023-cj9if]

Lookers Vauxhall in 2 franchises did that to 2 cars i had years ago. Absolutely terrible service, scammed each time. Work suggested and charged for was never completed. People stopped going and they got a reputation before closing down and selling the land to Tesco.

[@NicholasStreet]

I’ve always thought that. I very much doubt that there’s any magic ingredient in manufacturers oil that stops cambelt degradation, anyway.

[@ormaragnarsson5203]

What you guys should know.. Stellantis has extended warranty of the older generation 1.2 engines on oil consumption problems and premature timing belt problems to 175.000km and 10 years! All you need to do is follow the service schedule and keep receipts as a proof of correct maintainace.. Does not apply to 2019 or newer 1.2 turbo engines.. 1.2 non turbo dont have timing belt problems, as port injection does not pollute the oil as much with fuel😉

[@brianmilton8101]

Is that in writing anywhere?

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

1.2 atmo a aussi le meme probleme de courroie mais a un kilometrage plus eleve

[@leosedf]

I wouldn't trust stellantis to order me a pizza.

[@VirtueelGamingNL]

Fun fact the hybrid variants now have a timing chain aswell.

[@EdVanMeyer]

Kawasaki used chains on their OHC ATV's and they were reliable. It is the obvious way to go.

[@posset51]

I bought a Vauxhall Grandland just 2 years ago and unaware of the wet best as the salesman said it was chain drive . I went to the dealer with my complaint (Vauxhall Drive ) and was told Stellanstis / PSA extend the warranty on the belt to 10 years then shortly after they have increased it to lifetime cover. I guess if you converted it to chain you would lose any warranty extensions for the entire vehicle . Get the belt wear gauge tool for a few pounds so. you can easily check the belt yourself . The warranty extension also relies on main dealer servicing . I also change the oil mid term between services as a belt and bracers precaution . Oil needs to be B71 2010 0w 30 grade on the Vauxhall .

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

LA COURROIE EST LEPREMIER SIGNE QUE LE MOTEUR VA MOURIR si la courroie se dissoue dans l huile c est que le carburant passe dans dans l huile et comment le carburant passe dans l huile par les segments. dont le carburant passe dans l huile car segments pas assez serres mais autre problemes l huile aussi remonte dans les cylindres a cause des memes problemes et pire l huile brule et se cookefie et bloque les segments donc surconsommation dhuile et plus d essence qui descend dans le carter donc courroie qui suse plus vite c est un cercle vicieux mais c est pas la courroie le responsable mette une chaine n empecheras pas la surconsommation d huile! le probleme c est l ensemble segmentation /cylindre! tant qu il y aura pas de modification ce moteur ne sera pas fiable!

[@espacesX]

Oil consumption. Continuing with the same oil but using some asditives and mixing up Oil Boosters (incl. viscosity improvers) with Engine Oil-Leak Stop. Oil-Boosters protect wet timing belts (incl. TBN-improver, elastomer-protectors and -treatment), while "Engine Oil-Leak Stop" kills any wet belt incl. wet timimg belts.

[@exoticvibes8419]

Took last year a cactus 1,2 110hp 2016 used 110000km in Greece and i saw from the beginning consumed extra oil, now at 150000km 1,5 year after it comsumed 1lt at 1000km, I plan to take it to a workshop for repair but I admit I didn't expect issues with consumption and wet belts, maybe I wasn't well informed.

[@mikeberry304]

Apparently it's the petrol fumes that rots the belt ,breaking it up and deposits fibres in the sump which then get sucked up blocking the oil pickup strainer , I've changed a few of these belt kits , the earlier one is harder to do than later models , I always change the crank seal when doing one , the last one dropped the oil pump chain into the sump, that was nice to fish out 😂😂😂

[@joe_rd1]

The first time i did one I did the same. Almost lost my head when it happened i was fuming about fishing it out the sump 🤣

[@v88krb]

My wife's car is a 64 plate 108 and the timing belt has just been changed at 10 years. The dealer reported no degradation but the car has not yet covered 40k miles. it drives beautifully. My 17 plate 2008 had the belt changed on manufacture recall 2 years ago after low oil pressure was indicated. It is now showing increased oil usage and I think it could be getting to the time to change it.

[@anthonybrown4874]

Dealer is not incentivised to report anything make sure recall for sump removal is done to view oil pick up.

[@derekbevan7145]

A few years ago VW/Audi considered litre of oil every 1000 kilometres was acceptable. I ran a Fiat Punto with 150000 miles on it and hardly topped the oil up between services.

[@gilbertotrevisan6538]

Actually the level of oil can become higher than normal because of the oil being diluted by the gasoline

[@composedlight6850]

I have rin my Citroen 300,000 miles and it does not use a drop of Oil (do change every 10,000 miles)

[@Carrera-gp9od]

@@derekbevan7145 Yeah. I had a Octavia vrs It drank a 1l of oil every 1000 m Outrageous , they said it was within tolerances 😂

[@JP-zd8hm]

Oh yes, the twin chargers

[@Unclebuzzcocksne]

I had a 1 series that was even worse than a golf. Couldn’t believe how much it drank

[@almiromeragic9341]

Beautiful. I was thinking about this option for a while.

[@FergieGlasgow]

May well consider this for the Mrs Pug 3008, depends on overall cost really. Might still just be better to sell and replace, but she loves the car!

[@mzmz9355]

My wife has an Opel Cross,land (Vauxhall in the UK) and at about 40k km, loil changed every 15k km, the car gave a warning to stop, lost performance and forced her to stop. The reason was the wet belt already in degradation (secondary effect was poluting the filters and all around from the belt pieces).

[@matwell2]

my question is if you change to a chain. i assume you can change the oil for a thicker grade which might relieve the oil consumption issue too?

[@0bzen22]

What is it, twelve years later? Piston rings are the main source of the issue with the wet belt Puretecs as well. Oil dilution with fumes and petrol seeping through. So you got two issues, oil consumption, and oil dilution :D At least, oil consumption would 'force' you to change your oil more often, thus reducing wet belt issues. Clever PSA. Engine of the year four years running, am I right?

[@leneanderthalien]

not only the ring but the direct injection who wash the oil from the cylinders

[@rayjennings3637]

I had a wet belt scare on my 71 plate, 21,000 miles Puretech 1.2, three weeks ago - the STOP warning light came on with a message 'Get Repairs'! After having the car recovered into a dealership the fault code (P11A9) indicated a problem with the Inlet Cam Dephaser, sometimes caused by a blockage of the solenoid valve. When they removed the valve, they found it had become jammed in the fully retarded position. They checked the belt in 6 different positions of it's cycle with the gauge and a borescope and allowing for it not being easy, the belt was pronounced in great shape. They fitted a new solenoid valve for the dephaser and the car runs as sweet as a nut - if not better. I reckon the problem had been getting progressively worse but I became accustomed to it although I did notice that fuel consumption had increased over the previous tank of fuel. As for the ludicrous oil consumption that manufacturers seem happy to accept these days (my theory is that they fit loose rings because that lowers frictional losses and therefore reduces fuel consumption and emmissions), my old Peugeot 1.6 HDI lost hardly any between services and when I got rid of it it had 150k miles on the clock!

[@wildhogget69]

Purchased a Rifter 2019, not knowing any of this 52K KM and started to get the low oil pressure light and stop car light. Investigated and found out it was this issue. But was told Stellantis will replace free of charge. However found out that the last owner did not perfom the 50K service, so they would not pay up! Cost me 1200 euros to fix!!!!

[@macdonaldfraser]

Thanks for this. Really helpful. Unfortunately, my wife loved her old Peugeot 206 (2004) so much, when it finally gave out, she wouldn't have anything else but a 208 (and I only discovered the issues with the Puretech engine afterwards). So, we're stuck with it. Is there any news on the Norwegian 'fix' (timing chain)? I would definitely have this done, but I can't find any info online etc. Thanks again for your helpful video. Kelvin

[@johnrutherford49]

I am on the verge of buying a c3 air cross 21 plate with 13k miles. and thought it all looked great and casually checked the engine and cannot believe the negative reviews! I don’t no what to do 😢

[@charliekelland7564]

When in doubt, don't.

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

jusqu a 50 000km pas de soucis apres c est le fete!

[@kevinmoffatt]

Huge positive if the chain mod has been done when selling the car and, for peace of mind alone, it has to be good value even at double the cost of belt renewal. Knew two people who owned a Fiat Punto and MGF and both absolutely swore how great their cars were and said the stories were all lies. Both quickly changed their minds when the head gaskets failed, in the case of the MGF it was scrap and the Fiat cost her that years holiday.

[@Fred_the_1996]

the MGs dont have issues if you use MLS gaskets, i replaced the elastomer gasket on my car with an MLS and it's super reliable. 225.000km and it only needed one gasket. the elastomer gasket wasnt blown, but i replaced it just in case. Those gaskets break because people dont warm up their cars properly, Rover K series engines are very sensitive to temperature changes, but if you let it warm up well it's very reliable even if you rev it a lot when at operating temperature

[@chasguirey912]

Another excellent video. I am not familiar with the puretech engine but did wonder how easy it would be to fit an oil pressure gauge in addition to the pressure sensor.

[@keithpearson8355]

My ford ecoboost has done 68.000 on its first belt had ford change it the belt was saved for me to inspect it had a few cracks but no shedding replacement cost £1000

[@mmllmmll22]

How about crankwalk with start-stop? 1.2pt can be bad at 80kkms when using s&s. They have around 0.38mm max crank play, my friends one had 0.33mm while doing first belt replacement at 42kkm. 99% city driving, so s&s was working hard.

[@johnwilson6648]

I am currently embroiled in a battle with a well known car dealer over this very issue. A total nightmare. The car has only done 40k.They are trying to get out of paying up under warranty. Ive been to Citizens advice who were very helpful. Any update about this chain kit would be great thanks.

[@thephilpott2194]

Name and shame if you feel able.

[@meltedwheeliebin]

Just had the belt changed on my Citroen C3 Picasso. 65 plate, 57k miles. £600. Low oil pressure warning message. Main dealer services from new.

[@julianlord2697]

Overcharged. I paid less than that at a Peugeot dealer including a minor service.

[@meltedwheeliebin]

@@julianlord2697congratulations. What dealer was it. I’ll go there next time.

[@mwhi475]

Low oil means your oil strainer was blocked, I hope they cleaned that out for you as well.

[@meltedwheeliebin]

@@mwhi475they did. Used the Dayco kit. Proper job. The mechanic who did it was recommended. He’s done loads of these kits. He’ll be doing loads more for years as well!

[@Bonzoguy66]

I had one, for 9 years , in a Peugeot 108 . No problems, but the chain was changed, before it was 5 years , other wise Peugeot did not guaranty the engine.

[@mikligardur9104]

Ford EcoBoost engine are now chain driven since after 2019. Its is at least in Ford Puma 2022 that I am thinking of buying.

[@nsoper19]

Wet belts can actually work fine, so long as they aren't under high tension. I have an ohc lawn mower that has a wet belt and has run for over 20years. I've never once heard of an issue with one of those engines.

[@richardendean6292]

We have more issues with chain driven engines (Ingenium/VAG 3 cyl/Vauxhall 1.6D/Transit 2.4/Micra/Mini/BMW etc.) than we do with the Puretech lump. Regular oil changes and no flushes or additives. At least the Puretech is an easy belt change compared to some. You don't even take the belt cover off - unlike the Ecoboost where it's cat/water pump/starter and a load of other unnecessary crap that needs to be moved or taken off.

[@Zgurkogel]

The conversion kit is developed by a company in the Netherlands, NOT Norway. On a other note, 1 litre of oil every 4000 miles is actually quite good. Perhaps you meant to say '400 miles' instead? 😁

[@davejones290]

Yes 1ltr of of oil every 4000 miles that's OK, my rav4 is doing that at the moment, and it's 20years old😊

[@iandennis7836]

Twas my thinking also. 4000 miles per litre is quite reasonable, especially with today's ultra thin oils.​@davejones290

[@baylessnow]

@@davejones290 Good old Toyota eh? 👍

[@mattparry1251]

I’ve had to put a new engine in my wife’s car ; full dealer service history; I’ll give it 30-40k and replace with the chain kit myself …. Interested to hear availability and price please

[@mickl8212]

So this kit has had the engine modified to provide sufficient lubrication to the chain when the engine is running? What's the R&D on the longevity of the chain? 1.0l of oil consumption in 4k miles is perfectly acceptable. Honda VTEC engines use oil and are perfectly reliable.

[@thephilpott2194]

It's highly likely there's enough splash for a chain; you'll notice in all photos that the belts are soaking wet.

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

je pense que vous avez pas compris que le vrai probleme c est pas la courroie ! le vrai probleme c est le moteur lui meme segmentation trop lache et bloc alu qui chauffe et se deforme et augmente donc le probleme de la segmentation!

[@morganheitz335]

if that chain kit becomes available, that would be interesting, as these cars have low value on the market at the time ; could make for a cheap car made reliable

[@davidessery640]

I’ve just been quoted just shy of 3k to change the belt on a 2020 1.2 Corsa, I understand it’s a fair bit of work to change out and requires specialist tooling to lock the engine but 3k???

[@dalibor123]

Please tell me something... I am considering buying a 2024 5008 1.2 MHEV 136 e-DCT - HYBRID. Is this engine ok for such a big car? Is the engine ok?

[@marcelpursche5339]

Would be interesting how much the fuel consumption changes with this conversion kit. The wet belt was introduced because it should have less friction and thus should lower fuel consumption and emissions. Given how expensive a totaled engine is, the lower consumption definitely isn't worth it of course 😂 But for scientific purposes it would be pretty interesting to know what the difference is on the same engine.

[@osa-mv4iv]

The chain is only on hybrid version 136 hp and 6 speed on petrol version is wet taming belt i sow in new c3 but position of belt is more to right side so you cant see him when you open oil cap like on previus model

[@keithnewton8981]

The engine marker has moved to chain so there must be a fix or conversion as stellantis will want to make the change as cheap as possible

[@ΣαμαραςΧαρης]

I send an email to the company about the wet belt to chain swap and I didn’t take any answer at all……..

[@siralfgarnet284]

Suzuki Alto , mine has whisper quiet engine at times I think it has stopped its so silent , better than my Dacia sandero sce engine.

[@andygilbert1877]

Best to worst: (Reliability-wise) Gear Driven > Chain Driven > Dry Belt > Wet Belt. But having said that I’ve seen all 4 systems fail. The one gear driven failure (Perkins Diesel) just seized the engine, but replacing the bronze bushes was the only damage. :) Chain Drive can be good but chains do wear, especially if you ignore oil changes or use crap oil. Worn tensioners can lead to skipping teeth too and if you’re lucky it’s just the timing that’s thrown out! ;) Early belt drive could be interesting, the worst damage I’ve seen (Peugeot 205 Diesels) were camshafts in 4 pieces and all cam caps snapped as this was an interference engine. Still, new cylinder heads and they were good to go! Wet belts…yeah…:(

[@JamieCameron-Mackintosh-z7c]

Gear driven isn't necessarily all that good. Think of the Ford Essex V6 and some versions of the Volvo B ohv engines which used fibre timing gears to reduce engine noise. The problem was that the timing gears could strip teeth in as little as 15-20,000 miles if abused, neglected or worked very hard. The result in the case of the Ford engine was very often terminal damage and I have seen the Volvo engines be damaged beyond repair by timing gear failure as well. I have seen the Essex V6 engines with the heads punched clean off the block as the timing gear has failed when the engine was under heavy load. Engineers don't ever really find new ways to break things, just revised ways to make the same failures happen...

[@andygilbert1877]

@@JamieCameron-Mackintosh-z7c Fair enough but I don’t think of fibre and gear in the same sentence! ;) Most of my experience has been on industrial engines, (Plant, HGVs & Fork Trucks) and having rebuilt many over the years I’ve only known the one failure with (proper) gear drive. Sadly manufacturers have moved more to car based engines in recent years with reliability suffering, especially in harsh environments. But I get the need to reduce costs and noise etc. I think overall for cars a robust chain drive is probably the best solution, there does seem to be movement back to this in some quarters.

[@JamieCameron-Mackintosh-z7c]

@@andygilbert1877 There will always be the idiots who think mechanical items don't require maintenance, which is about the only way to make metal timing gears fail out short of a fault in manufacture. I agree with you about the timing chains being the most trouble-free alternative for light vehicle engines, my own car is a 2015 Peugeot 108 with the 1.0 VTi engine. It's done nearly 152,000 miles and it's just had the timing chain replaced, which isn't a particularly big job on these. Other than a new lambda sensor all it's needed has been routine maintenance. Really not bad for a car that was cheap when it was new...

[@johnthebimmerman1406]

When did Peugeot stop using these wet belt engines. My niece has a 2023 model year 2008 and my sister a 2024 version. Have they still got this engine.

[@JanNowak-cj3iq]

My colleague's 2022 2.0 TDI can drink as much as 1 liter of oil (0W-20 VW 509.00) every 600 -700 km. Fuel to oil ratio approx 48:1

[@rs9553]

that's a 2 stroke engine at this point

[@bubububu7984]

Absolutly true.59.000 km and almoust 4 years and the problem appeared.PSA sade 80.000km and 6 years after the belt needs changing.Bullss.....t.

[@Aimless6]

While it might be a viable sullution, the postal adress does not instill much confidence. A two bay MOT shop on the isle of Texel. Not something that allows for comprehensive durability testing.

[@solarflare2199]

Changed the f00kin stock belt with the a racing full kevlar one used on 208 Rally4 + Castrol Edge Magnatec OW-30. Bye bye problems ❤

[@onelyone6976]

The main problem in the 1.2 puretech is actually not the wet belt, it is the Godawful piston rings allowing fuel to get into the engine oil, and this fuel within the oil degrades the wet belt. This would also explain high oil consumption on them aswell. The change to a chain drive is a welcome one, but I'm not holding hopes up for it to solve all of this engine's problems

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

non s il change pas la segmentation et le refroidissement du bloc moteur en alu ba sa changera rien!

[@hugogee4341]

Does the 1.6 puretech have the same issues?

[@MrOsstis]

No. 1.6 is always on chain originally from factory

[@marcsinnaeve9937]

Great news about the conversion kit but belt and oil not going together? How do you explain not one single 1.6 VAG TDI having an issue with the belt that drives the oil pump since 2009? On the other hand mixing 10% ethanol in petrol (95 Octane), which is mandatory in E10 fuel, is the real reason why most of these engines started to have these issues after 2017. Just take a sniff of the oil cap... Rubber and ethanol don't go together.

[@cerberus30700]

what about the tensioner? - does the chain kit come with a tensioner?..

[@IAm2024-os9wl]

Is a timing chain conversion availble for the 2015 Peugeot 208? And in South Africa, please? I wish I had known. thank you for your helpful advice!

[@alazyfrog5969]

My Peugeot 2008 was wrecked, I had full coverage but the insurance company gave it a very low value to be because "Well it's a Puretech ...". 😡🤬 Edit : Just went to a cars dealership today, stated I didn't want any Puretech, salesguy replied "we don't do that shit". Just found my favorite garage 😁

[@mechanical1955]

what about the piston ring failure ; how far do you go ?

[@Tonypoolebcfc]

I have a Peugeot 3008 may 2023 ,does this engine belt driven .

[@mercianicholas7829]

Thanks for this, but our 208 has the timing chain not the belt but has the same problem of using too much oil. What else must we look at to sort this out

[@ScottishCarClan]

Try the pcv diaphragm. If not it is likely a deeper issue, piston rings etc.

[@danjackson2014]

Worn Cylinders... The engine is dead at this point. Sell it

[@John-ob7dh]

Do a compression piston test on each cylinder.

[@Xenon777_]

Not sure recommending a Civic is great advise when the 1.0 engine in those has a wet belt...

[@DashCamSerbia]

This guy has no idea of what he is talking about. Just pub talk and priduct placement.

[@mickl8212]

I agree, Honda shot themselves in the foot with that wet belt.

[@sarkel1]

Honda is the same with turbo and headgaskek issues too. I know I've fixed a few now

[@joe_rd1]

Yeah im a big honda boy and the honda L series engines (1.0 1.5) are junk theres plenty of issues with them in america where they actually put miles on them instead of pensioners just going shop

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

j ai une kia ceed 3cylindre 1l 120cv c est une chaine 50 000 km pas de probleme ma femme toyota aygo 1l 68cv 3cylindre c est une chaine pas de probleme!

[@dimchriste36]

Does 3008 1.6 phev of 2021 has chain belt or not..its the facelift..also chain belt is alot better cause you need to change it after..i dont know more than 200000 klm

[@16978rizal]

Where can i get this timing chain conversion kit?

[@grahamhaynes7658]

Lots have drastic oil consumption,issue with control rings and liners probably.

[@morjac11]

Hi so are you saying that the 1.2 pure tec in say a 2024 model no longer has this issue .thanks

[@waynesworld6020]

Hello. Any advice be greatly appreciated is the 1.6thp peogeot 2013 models have the same issues as the 1.2 puretech engines or any problems . Wet belts/ chains oil issues etc . Thanks 👍👍

[@-DC-]

Completely different engine still terrible for problems though, Uses a Timing Chain which also falls regularly

[@charlesoakley5210]

Hope there gonna do one ford the ford 2.0 panther engine

[@MM-mm2bt]

Do the new engines (hybrid 136 hp) have the same problems that anyone knows?

[@39yeray]

Hybrid 1.2 Puretech is already a chain driven engine, I don’t know why in the world they don’t use it the non hybrid cars. The engine is the same, the difference is the electric motor but it actuates directly in the transmission.

[@keithnewton8981]

My friends 3008 did not last 6 months before a new engine was put in

[@bondjamesbond9041]

First! Still wouldn't buy one. I'll stick with Suzuki. I have had no issues. As to oil consumption between changes. What oil consumption.?

[@ANationalAcrobat-qj2dl]

I had a Suzuki a few years ago. Brilliant, reliable engine BUT if you stood close to it & kept quiet you could actually HEAR it rusting!!! 😕

[@victory2115]

An engine is supposed to use a small amount of oil.

[@ANationalAcrobat-qj2dl]

@@victory2115 Well, my Volvo NEVER uses any oil & it is 16 years old!!

[@grahamhaynes7658]

​@ANationalAcrobat-qj2dl modern Suzuki are excellent on rust,have an Alto which is spotless underneath.

[@ANationalAcrobat-qj2dl]

@@grahamhaynes7658 Depends where you live, mate. I lived right on the coast & my Suzuki dissolved before my very eyes. Most Japs are the same. I have a Volvo now & it's solid.

[@oiyou5870]

When and what models have the newer timing chain on the puretec.

[@danielrussell446]

The hybrid 136 1.2 pure tech

[@SuperMickyds]

Where can you buy these chain kits need one for a new 2024 Citroen C4

[@dongjuang4196]

Meanwhile, Whatcar published the list of car manufacturer reliability. Citroen in it takes 6th or so place: above Volkswagen, KIA, Hyundai, Skoda, Ford and so on.

[@ErmaTheKitteh]

As a Peugeot/Opel/DS tech, I can testify that it doesnt matter if you service your car on time, early, after only a few thousand kms or such, the belt will go bad before the 6 year change mark /100 000 km on many of the models, some of the newer cars with the wet belt boasts 12 years/200 000 kms... thats never going to happen.... ever... the NA 1.2 PT engine doesnt seem to have the same issue as the turbo charged versions, we've barely noticed the NA version having issues with belts beeing too wide, cracking etc, but its almost always the turbocharged variants tht have the issues unfortunately.. the newer engines are 1.2 turbo but with a timing chain; but those are only on the mild hybrid variant...

[@morjac11]

So looking at a 2024 408 puretech I shouldn't have an issue with the wet belt? Anything that I should look for on the new 408 thanks

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

la courroie peut etre mais la consommation d huile sa arrivera c est sur! rien n a ete fait pour resoudre le probleme

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

le bloc moteur est en alu et l alu avec la temperature cela se deforme augmentant encore le probleme de segmentation! plus sa chauffe moins la voiture fera de km

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

le seul bloc alu viable que j ai connu c est bialbero alfa romeo moteur qui n est plus produit desole j en connais pas d autre!

[@Philip---pip267]

I'm an ex peugeot 207 owner, from the year 2007. I don't know if my heap had chain or belt, but it was an awful vehicle and a massive money pit. Drank gallons of oil, awful to drive and serviced correctly after buying new from a main dealer. Are you telling me then that for all the future 208 owners it got EVEN WORSE ?? Mine scrapped itself with a blown engine in 2020. Thank god I never was tempted with the newer model , and I now happily drive electric by choice. Faith in all modern combustion engine cars totally destroyed.

[@itswais77]

Should’ve brought a Toyota or a Honda tbh

[@mikester1290]

Big fat chance that had the "prince" engine, notorious for guzzling oil and also low oil pressure issues.

[@Philip---pip267]

@@watchanything-c7r mine got through its clutch at around 19,000 miles. It was a 1.6 vti sport, in a 207sw. It had one replacement cylinder head under warranty at 5,000 miles, Peugeot technicians were called in and took photographs. Abs recurring issues, and endless "depolloution system faulty", each time involving at least a sensor replacement. Ecu connection problems. It went back after one month from new, with stuttery engine problems and low revs and lack of power when pulling away. I could never ever manage a smooth gear change, and that issue was never resolved. If the car was fully loaded it hardly managed to go up hills. Something went at 23000 miles, the breakdown technician announced that only half the engine was turning. The dipstick could not even be removed, and the car was scrap, needing a new engine. It came new from a main dealer, was always serviced there and looked after. My mate has a mini. He has reverse gear issues that cannot be fixed. I'll take my chance with battery fires and range anxiety any day !! My previous peugeot 206 was faultless.

[@ang9222]

I worked 3 yrs in Peugeot, had replaced over 10 of these engines and countless overhaul repaires for this shit design.

[@stephencustance3822]

I’ve been looking at a 208 GT 1.2 Puretech 2024 model. I see they have now changed the cam belt to a cam chain have they now also solved the oil loss problem. Should I still stay clear of the car. Thanks Steve

[@dominiquebaumgarten8010]

comment ils ont resolu le probleme de consomation d huile j ai des doutes!

[@zog97xy]

They haven't replaced the belt in the newer cars.

[@hedydd2]

Chains are not always the answer. Appropriately engineered systems are the answer. There are masses of engine chains that are known to be failure points. Just ask so many JLR Ingenium engine owners or ex-owners. Also certain BMW engines are prone. The 'weak link’ may be the chain itself, its mating with sprockets, or the guides and tensioners. Well engineered ones built for longevity and not down to a price will generally last longer than belts though, it’s just that not all chain systems are made that way.

[@seangreenwood8331]

good idea but still doesnt solve the oil consupmtion and piston ring issues

[@alexandertm5362]

I have a 74' 2008 GT should i be worried?

[@agiugabenson7268]

Mention in video of cost to change a wet belt. My Peugeot dealer quotes £1600 and an independent £900. Videos like this one mention circa £500?

[@RBcymru]

I thought the answer for French cars was the crusher 😀

[@JeremyCarrington-ve5yp]

I love me a French car, I do. I never buy anything else - my last 10 cars have been French, but one day I might be lured by an old Alfa Romeo.

[@artblend4278]

nothing to do with being French...it's European rules that have forced manufacturers into down-sizing. Also the chain won't solve the piston's segments weakness...My 308 110hp has no prob so far nor oil consumption at 75000kms ...I've had the belt changed for free as a warranty procedure last year....finger crossed

[@RBcymru]

@@artblend4278 Loads of Peugeot Citroen car engines not so lucky 😀

[@RBcymru]

@@JeremyCarrington-ve5yp You obviously like pain 😄 Alfa engines not much better. Alfa cars look nice but are Italian so last 1 month past warranty. French cars try to hard to be French and look odd.

[@iconstantin]

Does the 1.2 VTI 82 hp uses the same timing belt in oil?

[@MECHANICOFCG]

Yes,it uses the same system.In my 1,2 vti i change the oil every 5000 km and works fine

[@iconstantin]

@MECHANICOFCG i change the oil every 8k - 10k, but 5k is a bit too often. But if it saves the engine, i guess it's worth

[@manliketyler8066]

If you can, could you do a video on the 06-11 Yaris?

[@baylessnow]

Or a 2000 Yaris Verso 1.3. Best car I've ever owned. It's a shame Toyota only made them for 3 years!

[@petervandendungen4210]

I bought the Peugeot 2008 (2021 with 70k on the clock) 6 months ago. During warranty I got the timing belt replaced and twice empty in oil.. Still 6 months warranty to go but, to be honest I am very disappointed, every 2000-3000 km having new oil doesnt feel good.