Pikmin has Balancing Issues

[@imonlyhereforpikmin]

How would you balance the Pikmin types?

[@CoralPhoenix76]

idk

[@ExGanonMain]

@@imonlyhereforpikmin Put their strengths all over the map and make the player go ti those places where you need to use them, like how Pikmin 1 did it.

[@pikminologueraisin2139]

no "stun" effects. it made purple broken in 2 and ice too good in 4

[@christianbuskirk1471]

Each Pikmin type could respond differently depending on the hazard type. Kind of like Pokemon. Here are some examples: -Red, Rock, and especially Purple would drown quicker -Red is more susceptible to water attacks -Blue and Winged would always die from electricity while Rock has a slight immunity -Increased wind knockback for White, Yellow, Glow, and especially Winged but Purples are immune and Rocks can slightly resist the wind -Flames instakill Ice and can quickly kill Blue -Crystals can be broken by a Purple's impact as well but it is far less effective -Poison works quicker on the original types Those are just a few off the top of my head. This series is all about the differences between little people so highlighting the slight differences between the types would help the theme and diffculty of the game

[@robertbeisert3315]

I reckon if we put the heaviest ones on the bottom and use the yellow ears as footholds for red and blue, it wouldn't be too hard.

[@Gustomations]

I think we should give white Pikmin cool ass sunglasses and a hat to balance out his height issues

[@davidthecommenter]

give them the ability to toss blue crystals at enemies to "chill them out"

[@Gustomations]

@@davidthecommenter give him jays

[@apocalypseofplush]

Waltuh Waltuh White Pikmin

[@davidthecommenter]

@@Gustomations jessie pikmin

[@Gustomations]

@@davidthecommenter breaking balance

[@AnAveragePurplePikmin]

I have been going to the gym and you want me to be weaker than BLUE pikmin!?!?! How ludicrous

[@brem-]

Something I've been thinking about is giving certain Pikmin special weaknesses that are an instant kill. Like Ice Pikmin for example, it's just ice, fire would instantly kill them, or Rock Pikmin, they're rocks, entering deep water would just make them sink and kill them. I think that would make people more carfull with their Pikmin, because now if you mess up and a pikmin is on fire or gets hit with electricity or gets poisoned you just whistle them and everything's allright, meaning you don't really have to strategise around taking certain pikmin with you except for opening gates or something.

[@Riptide0505alt]

That's actually a really clever idea! Water is conductive, so blues would die instantly to electricity, Water puts out fire, so reds would not only drown very quickly, but also die to water-based attacks very quickly, Purples are also very heavy, causing them to just sink, Whites are very light, so they would take longer to drown because they can float easier. It's a very possibly intricate system.

[@gboogie3257]

Actually, very clever and neat idea

[@FelipeJaquez]

Nintendo actually please hire this man!

[@cosmicskydragon333]

The issue with this is then why bring those Pikmin? Instant death would, for all intent and purposes not matter for skilled players and punished new inexperienced players. When you don't know using something which has instant death is pointless, and if you gave everything an instant death mechanic then people would pick the easiest to avoid. Players naturally minimize risk. Adding greater punishments leads to slower play in almost every game which requires either a strict time limit, which remember a lax one made people far to nervous to try Pikmin. You'd basically create an stranglehold making the game horrid for no one's benefit.

[@shapshapshapshap2829]

@@cosmicskydragon333 feel like that can be remedied simply by that little pan over of the map that happens every time you enter a new area. It shows the enemies in the area, some of the hazards, and depending on the biome you could probably tell you’ll need to watch out for water at a beach or bring ice/fire in a snowy environment

[@Jacks_game_room]

It’s really funny how much better balanced pikmin would be if they never brought back the dog

[@k96man]

Man's best friend and designers worst enemy

[@NotInUse752]

"its like having a cheatcode that gives you infinite bitter spray" i have never had a more "oh shit he's right" moment in my entire life.

[@JulDerjanus]

The balancing might be… lost media

[@davidthecommenter]

😱😱😱

[@scribbleslol1566]

*Sonic.exe scream*

[@stephensauls6534]

you lose points because lost media wasn't capitalized. 0/10 comment lmao

[@GamingEelektross]

One thing that definitely hurt Pikmin 4's balancing is the area designs. Every other game designed its areas to be revisited at later points with new Pikmin types (Excluding how people can absolutely cheese the Forest of Hope) meanwhile you can full clear areas in 4 without ever needing to back track. If earlier areas had extra treasures hidden behind crystals or caves that required puzzles involving winged pikmin, I feel like it'd be better balanced for the shafted types.

[@mariatomlinson2663]

I 100%'d most areas in p4 before moving on, and backtracking with a new type was only required like, twice. I definitely feel it hurt the game's pacing, but also, with no respawning enemies making you backtrack just highlights how dead and empty the areas are once you've completed them.

[@GamingEelektross]

@@mariatomlinson2663 Enemies not respawning does hurt the game a lot as well yeah, but with even semi decent planning you don’t need to backtrack to any areas at all in Pikmin 4 (not counting night modes). The areas are intentionally designed to be done with the resources currently available to you, and even in the demo I saw speedruns of people full clearing the first area all in one day.

[@NormalLunk]

​@@mariatomlinson2663I never entered a new area till I had 100% the current one. Backtracking is never required (unless I just cheesed something)

[@Sandromatic]

​@@GamingEelektrossreally the only real point that it's not imo is the blue onion in the first area is not something you can get without the correct oatchi upgrades. Other than that, literally every area is like that, yeah.

[@GamingEelektross]

@@Sandromatic I misremembered an earlier point but you can still full clear that area by farming a lot of ice Pikmin to freeze the lake for the blue onion. Oatchi gets big the day after rescuing the first castaway which allows for jumping. Swimming isnt necessary in the Sun Speckled Terrace.

[@ZombieChicken1310]

*Blue Pikmin:* They're cool *Yellow Pikmin:* Buff electricity kill time (make it an insta-kill hazard yet again), bring back puzzles that revolve around connecting electrical wires/fuse boxes, make the higher throw range actually important and make actually imposing electrical-themed enemies *Red Pikmin:* They're cool too *Ice Pikmin:* NERF ENEMY FREEZE TIME!!! Also they die instantly to fire *White Pikmin:* Bring back the exclussive ability to detect treasures completely burrowed underground and make poison a more prominent hazard *Purple Pikmin:* Maybe just make them rarer to find *Rock Pikmin:* Although they do feel kind of uninvited, make crystal obstacles more prevalent and make more crystal-themed enemies and bosses, although stabbing and crushing enemies are good. *Winged Pikmin:* Bring back bamboo gates, flukeweeds and other liftable objects like stubborn rocks to better play with the puzzle aspect; rework their carrying paths and shortcuts, and buff their attack power but only againts flying enemies i guess... *Glow Pikmin:* Nerf the glowmob's stun time ------- *Puffmin:* Just return them 🥺

[@theconsumerofpenguins81]

Winged pikmin do NOT need to be buffed against flying enemies

[@ZombieChicken1310]

@@theconsumerofpenguins81 if they didn't had the flying enemy buff, their role would be 100% centered in carrying shit

[@theconsumerofpenguins81]

@@ZombieChicken1310 they already melt flying enemies

[@bulborb8756]

I also think maybe including more enemies that use electricity would help Yellow's too, as it stands only 3 electrical enemies exist and they can be dispatched with the other types before they get a chance to zap your squad. So many having some enemies that are always electrified similar to something like the Fiery Bulblax would be very handy for yellows

[@ZombieChicken1310]

@@bulborb8756 yeah. In pikmin 4 the only electrical enemies are Anode Dweevil, Anode Beetle, Bearded Amprat and Shockcake, which are either weak or mostly passive. Hey! Pikmin did a better job with purely electrical enemies and even an electrical boss, so an actual tough enemy centered around electricity would help the combat aspect of yellows. Maybe some type of big jellyfloat that's constantly covered in electricity and instead of sucking in pikmin to digest them it shoots out lightnings...

[@sethmeaseles3301]

I just want them to bring back multiple captains and leave oatchi in pikmin 4. Pretty cool concept but it felt like oatchi was way overtuned since they just did everything. Good at combat, can carry items faster than the pikmin can, and they're immune to everything with a decently large hp pool. I miss splitting up squads and doing things between multiple captains. Add in proper local multiplayer for the story and it'll elevate everything.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

I guess they can bring back oatchi as a captain that can't control pikimin but have all the abilities of the pikimin just highly nerfed... So the dog who be more of a hero unit that you could beat the gvame with alone but would be insanely hard.. And in normal gameplay whould be a mix between pikimin and captins so if you have a problem you can take diract control of it with Oatcki. But oatchi can't be everywhere and you have to saawp to another captain to control Pikmin.

[@jellyjohn6969]

I'd honestly feel really sad if any of the pikmin got the axe in pikmin 5, seeing as to how this game is very likely gonna be the backbone of future games, I just hope nintendo can correct the right things in the next future installment. Fantastic as always

[@dynogamergurl]

Or we just get all new Pikmin we’ve never seen or used before, kinda like how pokemon made a whole region of brand new region. Give us something new and different to learn and work with

[@superlagbro192]

An ice pikmin balancing idea ive had is that frozen enemies take halved damage from all sources except rock pikmin. I think synergies between types is an underutilized concept, and hard blunt stone being good against brittle ice just makes sense. In terms of type limits, i think a 5 type limit could work. Helps simplify pikmin selection without feeling stifling, as 5 types should give you some wiggle room to pick and choose which types you want to bring.

[@wiggler_crusader]

I do not think type limits should return at all as it limits player creativity. Or, make it optional which could make every player happy.

[@hadesKIU]

Honestly, I like the idea of Ice Pikmin creating a slow effect on enemies at the cost of damage. It definitely hurts enemies quite a bit, but it feels like a fair damage -> utility sacrifice. Bosses could even be more resistant, be it in slow rate or slow "threshold" (how many Pikmin it takes to slow them).

[@GBDupree]

And you could still keep the freeze effect for certain enemies or on weakpoints for enemies.

[@davidthecommenter]

got to this video faster than 50 spiced white pikmin carrying a 30 weight object

[@ExGanonMain]

Two controversial words: Ban Oatchi

[@numnaut1314]

Truer words have never been spoken.

[@Cameron_Bendy22]

No just nerf the dog spelt backwards

[@Superohno]

Bread bugs are overrated

[@Cameron_Bendy22]

@@Superohno yea but they are still byootiful creatures

[@DominicDiStefano-wf3rb]

Its big brain time

[@pookiethepoo]

I like how you just bassically suggested that we min max white pikmen like it's a rougelike

[@tepig2828]

I feel like the easiest way to fix wings would be to make them slower, pacifists, and add more anti-wing enemies. It lets the wings keep their powerful movement abilities, but you would have to use other types to babysit them and clear out their enemies. They can fly over water, but you would need to either freeze it with Ice or use blues to take out the enemies that would jump out of the water and eat your wings. You would need to use Yellows to defeat high up and flying enemies that target specifically winged Pikmin. Even though they are slower, the shortcuts they have access to would still give you a faster transport time, but the slow speed leaves them more vulnerable, since unlike whites, they cannot dodge swiftly around enemies or punish enemies that eat them.

[@robiginal]

You're probably right about the rock pikmin and winged pikmin being shoehorned into Pikmin 4. I kind of subconsciously noticed this myself. However I personally don't think that a dog will be in the next game, that's like assuming the next Mario game will have Wonder Flowers in it.

[@thrilsn]

To support your theory about the rock and winged Pikmin being rushed, those glass walls are one of two things in the game Oatchi can’t learn to destroy; this supports that they were added last minute, as it’s a very strange exception.

[@HandleHandle145]

I Guess we could say that winged Pikmin are at risk of becoming, lost media 🤔🤔🤔

[@toko90s9]

The problem with the Puffstool and Mushroom Pikmin is it's kind of a one trick pony. It can catch you off guard in Pikmin 1 when you first encounter it, but once you know the tell you'll likely never encounter Mushroom Pikmin again. And there's no good way to really balance this. Making it instant like in Pikmin 1 can come off as a cheap gotcha. Giving you time to whistle them back makes them too easy to save. And completely removing them makes the Puffstool a non-threat. The only way I can see them coming back is if they were changed into a Scornet Maestro like boss, where the Puffstool already has a bunch under its command and commands them with specific attack patterns and can't convert your own Pikmin during the battle.

[@smashers6971]

Honestly I had the idea of Puffmin returning as a dungeon specific gimmick as Wild Pikmin you can exclusively encounter in that dungeon

[@seanimo8579]

Pikmin 4 offered another good way of balancing the types, which is limiting how much you can have of any given type by hiding its onion. Winged Pikmin could still work alongside the other types even with all of its existing abilities if they were super rare like purples and whites. Given their weakness in combat it would feel very risky whenever you decide to take them out of the onion. Add in more enemies that can snipe the winged pikmin from their shortcuts like the spiderwebs, jumping fish and water shooter bugs from Pikmin 3 and you’d get a pretty balanced pikmin type.

[@pookiethepoo]

I feel like if you removed wings you could still use them for cosmetic reasons like say if they added something like a fast travel it would be a cutscene of the wings taking you from point a to point b

[@DoctorSpacebar]

I had a few ideas: White Pikmin *inflict* Poison when attacking, dealing damage over time, but they get weaker attacks that make them worse at direct combat and White Pikmin can only apply so much poison at a time (indicated by some kind of clouds around the enemy). The idea is that they're a "hit and run" fighter- mob an enemy with a small group, then get out of dodge and let the poison damage them some more while you do something else. Lowering a Winged Pikmin's carry weight might be the way to go. You'd need more of them, but they could still take shortcuts other Pikmin couldn't. Another idea I had was letting them air-drop other Pikmin (including Rocks and Purples) onto enemies, though I'm not sure how that'd work.

[@pepperonipizza8200]

The air drop thing feels like the blue lifeguard ability. It’s impractical compared to just throwing the pikmin themselves. I could see it being used as a traveling mechanic though.

[@Brunoxby]

i want the first type to be introduced in the next pikmin game to NOT be one of the main 3 from pikmin1

[@churupinha3510]

maybe it's just me, but i noticed your editing has gotten substantially better

[@Isabeethetransprincess]

One of the things I just realizing about why Dogs in Pikmin 4 are so overpowered is that the devs never gave the enemies ways to counter rush. Rush is almost like a universal "get out of jail" button in 4 and it always makes enemies health bars go down in seconds. As a mechanic, I like rush, I could work really well as an attack, they just need to make enemies that punish you from using it or solely relying on rush. Also, make enemies that take advantage of your Pikmin being on a Dog. One of the reasons why you would lose pikmin in the OG games was you not managing your squad in big battles, but with the dogs, you always end up having them in one big safe zone that you can move around. So make enemies that take advantage of that, and can eat Pikmin in the dog in large quantities or can attach to the dog, slowly draining your Pikmin numbers.

[@ghastlydreamer]

Reds: Make fire spread Yellows: Make electricity kill faster. Make electronics only be carried by yellows Blue: Idk drag enemies into water for easier kills kangaroo style Whites: Weaker hits but faster in traversal and attacks. Also immune to puffshroom Purple: Bring back slam and make them slower and weaker when actually fighting Wing: Make them get sidetracked by stinky traps like the flies they are Rock: Add armor to all enemies that they can break off. Also buff glass. Also immune to puffshroom Ice: Make them weaker in hotter climates. Also remove jelly death. Glow: Big chilling. Also allow spawning in shade Bulbmin: Kill them immediately if on fire. Otherwise Big Chilling

[@linguine4500]

Can you do a video about Pikmin 2's boss progression? What I mean is how they use a boss once at the end of a cave, then that boss can appear later as a regular/uncommon enemy(if you do them in intended order). Such as the white flower garden having one Snagret then the Snagret Hole having 5 or so then a harder version. The cavern of chaos is just a boss rush, but they know the players gets how to deal with the bosses by now, so they test if the player can manage fighting them in a new environment or circumstance, like the Man-at-legs being surrounded by water or having enemies around.

[@bongosmcdongos4190]

I feel like if you had to include the flying ones, they'd need to be limited in some way. Either via capping the number you can have at once, or by making flying exhausting for them, meaning they can only take flight once a day or something.

[@timotheatae]

Love the attempt at a Dublin accent at the end there, near enough spot on.

[@cheesysamich]

Here in pikmin civilazation, no one chooses to jump for the Purple pikmin, Its better to do the one block jump for the Blue pikmin rather than risk your entire life for just 9 more strength,

[@EnergyBurst2]

Something they could do to make White Pikmin more interesting is find a way to use that poison acid like spit they showed off in that one animated pikmin short with the excavator, perhaps a combat ability or a wall or other hazard only they can remove using it.

[@lasercraft32]

If they needed a type limit, it should have been five instead of three. Pikmin 2 had five types (not counting Bulbmin, which are a special case), and Pikmin 3 also had five types (in the main story specifically).

[@LDD714]

I just had the algorithm recommend me your channel and I've spent the last 2 days binging all of your content and I haven't laughed so much in awhile. Keep up the great content mate.

[@GeneGerald925]

methinks i have a decent idea for yellows to go along with your gamer-tastic ideas. they should add more types of bulbs the yellows can light up, and different plants that react to them. for instance: Red and Blue colored lights that trigger the different types of plants. it could be like those buttons that are in Pikmin 4 but catered to Yellows, plus the added stipulation that you need a certain amount of the Yellows to keep it all working right; Maybe leading into other bulbs that need you to trigger too so your Yellow distribution is your main priority. Alternatively, bulbs that start to dim after lighting them, only letting plants bloom for a bit/electric components stay on for a little bit.

[@InfiniteWithout]

The white pikmin should be able to have a chance to "dodge" attacks making them resilient but weak

[@Riptide0505alt]

They spray poison at the attack to nullify it

[@ShyGuyXXL]

How to make both Bitter Sprays and Ice Pikmin less OP: Enemies are only slowed down instead of frozen in place.

[@bobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbo519]

In the Pikmin KZbin shorts, White Pikmin have an acid spit ability. I don't know how that would be used, but I definitely want to see it in the games.

[@billylin8800]

i feel like you could introduce metal obstacles that only white pikmin could corrode away opening up new pathways, and make them supereffective on the mechanical enemies which are some of the toughest enemy types IIRC

[@DoctorMinjinx]

I feel like weather conditions could be a fun gimmick for Pikmin 5. Before you ask, yes, I stole the idea right out of Pokemon, but I think it fits Pikmin well and can be a nice buff to help certain types. The weather in an area could be "Sunny" "Rainy" or "Lightning storms". This could provide a buff to certain Pikmin types. Mainly the 3 classic types: reds, blues and yellows. It would be RNG based, but you would always know what the weather is before you land in an area. I think it could open the door for really cool strategies, you could be working on an area, but see a different area is currently having a thunderstorm. In this weather condition, no Pikmin is nerfed, but yellows have much faster movement speed and 2.0X attack on this day only due to the weather, incentivizing you to take advantage of that, as the next day may have a different condition, or even no condition at all. However, you are more than free to ignore the weather as well and go at your own pace, you're just missing out on buffs for certain types. That may sound OP, but you have to keep in mind it's totally random and some days won't have any special weather condition at all. I feel like it can really help out blues and yellows, who often find themselves struggling a bit for relevance. This would always keep them in the back of your mind. It can also help out reds, as weather won't benefit rocks or purples. So red may become the best attacking type depending on the day, and some days, rocks or purples may be better to use.

[@HOGSLICE-PNF-404]

(I'm not fiddlebert) I would personally balance them by making them all white. And making the rock Pikmin work in farms.

[@Nefnoj]

I love your recommendations for purples. Oddly enough, flying Pikmin are at their best in Pikmin 4's level that recommends against bringing them, the Hero's Hideaway, just because they'll actually take shortcuts in terms of verticality. Pikmin 4 proved that vertical level design works, so a Pikmin 5 should grow on that, even if it's without Oatchi. It'd be the perfect middle ground for flying Pikmin. I have a few thoughts in regard to balance: - One big change I'd make is turning Pikmin flowers into a health mechanic. Leaves die quicker to hazards while flowers take a while. - When it comes to hazards overall, I think they should be more involved rather than "Square block in the square hole". Pikmin 4 did this well, but I'd LOVE to see rooms with toxins only white Pikmin can enter, electricity that gets into water making it dangerous, stuff like that. - White Pikmin feel so special, but their hazard feels so arbitrary, so to make them stand out a bit more, I'd make toxins produce mushroom Pikmin instead of killing them. Consequently this might make the two Puffstools less special, so the standard one would turn Pikmin instantly, while the toxic one would do the same, reviving the dead, AND turn standard enemies into toxic forms. - I think making boss enemies immune to ice might be too arbitrary: It'd prevent users from wanting to bring ice anywhere because they won't know what will or won't be immune, so instead of freezing them outright, maybe they could slow them based on the percentage of their health. The less health they have overall, the slower they are. This could expand to the overworld, where maybe Bulbears get 60% slower, and Bulborbs get 40%. - More heavy things. Purple's strengths shouldn't be in combat, but in carrying. Nothing is more therapeutic than having twenty things moving to your base. Maybe they could have an minimum carrying speed, so while 10 purples would be slower than 10 reds, a lone purple carrying a bulborb would be 1/2 the speed rather than 1/10th the speed of a full team. - I think rock Pikmin's immunity to crushing (and damage types overall) in Pikmin 4 is too context-specific. Either they should be fully immune, or get chances to get crushed based on their flower status while other Pikmin would die instantly. - Bring back blue Pikmin's lifeguarding and Pikmin 3's wires,

[@lasercraft32]

Winged Pikmin would work GREAT if they actually _had_ more underwater sections... Usually the most they do is a single pond that's deeper than the others, but if they had more deeper water sections then Wings could exist without outclassing Blue Pikmin. And White Pikmin wouldn't be outclassed because the Wings fly slower than other types, and usually the shortcuts they do have are a lot more situational. Wings could be used to avoid danger, while Whites could be fastest once the danger has already been dealt with. As for Yellows... Yeah I'm not sure... I guess they could make Winged Pikmin not be able to fly very high, and instead are better for crossing horizontal areas instead of vertical, but since Electricity exists, I think its okay.

[@whomdunit2457]

Here's an idea i had for a new universal mechanic: Attack Speed. When going from leafs, to buds, to Flowers, Pikmin attack faster, thus increasing their DpS. The *amount* of damage per hit they do does NOT change. I think this could make pikmin like Whites, Purples, and Ice a bit more deep Whites could keep their lower damage, but attack significantly faster than other types. Purples could keep their 2x strength, but attack slower. Makes em more unique. It would combo very well with enemies that have some sort of defense stat.

[@MagerBlutooth]

That sounds like the kind of system that would be interesting to break down and calculate for balancing. Suppose White's base damage was 3 and it had 5 hits per second (HPS) with a leaf, and 7 HPS with a flower. Meanwhile, Purples did 10 damage but had 1 HPS as leaf and 3 HPS as flower. Calculating the total DPS, Purple Flowers are much stronger (30 DPS) than White Flowers (21 DPS), but White Leaves (15 DPS) are stronger than Purple Leaves (10 DPS). Players looking to maximize their damage would have to weigh how easily a flower becomes a leaf and vice versa, since it would determine whether Whites or Purples are generally better fighters. If we factor in certain enemies having a defense stat, the Pikmin with higher base damage will perform better than the ones that attack faster. An enemy with 3 defense would take 0 damage from White Pikmin and 7 from Purples. If defense is added as a mechanic, I would want to lean toward the faster-attacking Pikmin being generally better in combat, so that the stronger and slower Pikmin are more specialized for defensive enemies. Perhaps some of the defense is elemental in nature, giving potential piercing damage to types like Blue and Yellow against some enemies. Although, I would want to take steps to give players more options as to which Pikmin they should use to attack different enemies, so that they feel less like the keys used to break down the enemy "locks."

[@whomdunit2457]

@@MagerBlutooth Yeah, it adds a lot more depth to combat, and the Flower system in general. I always found it odd that Flowers didn't make them stronger, only faster, but just increasing their damage felt too simple for me. Making them attack faster opens up a whole new world of strategy. If we want to keep Red Pikmin as the designated "Combat" type, perhaps their sharp noses could pierce enemy defense as well, thus enabling them to use their full attack strength and speed on basically every enemy. And yeah, the idea of enemy defense is that Pikmin who attack fast, but have low damage, (Which is usually mitigated by just having a lot of them) will not always be the best strategy. Slower attackers that can actually break their defense before the enemies can gain the upper hand become a viable strategy. Of course, it depends on what enemy you're facing, but still. I think it's a really cool idea. I'm glad you like it! :) I don't see Nintendo actually implementing this because of how complex it can be, and the 'accessible' direction they seem to be taking Pikmin in, which is a shame.

[@Riptide0505alt]

Add on top of that the fact that Spicy Spray doubles attack speed, & you have a very intricate system. I like it

[@butthemeatwasbad]

Shout out to this topic keeping me up at night. You've got some cool ideas and I think you're right that from Pikmin 4's perspective, removing type-specific things is a big part of what hinders all the different types. But when I think about that, they have to work hard to make that good design. Sure, we could have doors for all the types, or we could try having well thought out ways to progress like how ice can freeze water. Speaking of, I think you over nerfed ice pikmin. If they can't freeze big enemies and are slower at killing the small ones, nobody will use them in combat. I do agree that the freeze threshold should be higher though.

[@Kneevirus]

Speaking of your idea for yellow pikmin it reminds me of how weird it is that the hero's hideaway house in pikmin 4 is fully lit up with fuctioning electricity as u land there and think it would've been cooler if the house was completely dark and abandoned when u first land there and then later in the level u could use the yellow pikmin to power the fuse box for the house turning on the electricity for the house.

[@Riptide0505alt]

That's an amazing idea! It would better justify yellows being recommended for the area.

[@Kneevirus]

@@Riptide0505alt thanks : ), it just always bugged me how the house is inexplicably pristinely clean with running electricity and everything and thought it would be cooler to have it be abandoned and u could light it up with yellows and see whats become of it lol

[@kalel4everr]

For electric balance i think electric gates should only stun pikmin, but all other types of electricity should give maybe .5 or 1 second to whistle pikmin back beofe they die. Also, add back electric wires from pikmin 3! I loved using yellow pikmin to power up things and im sad that wasnt expanded upon in 4. For white balance i think it would be cool to add the weird acid spray they had in that one animated short. Add metal gates white pikmin need to dissolve, and add a ranged acid attack they can use to compensate with their health.

[@thecuriousone0680]

Thinking about the purples reducing the stun chance is good. But maybe an alternative to making them deal 0,8 damage could perhaps be that, since they are heavier than other Pikmin, you can't throw them as fast as other Pikmin, preventing purple spamming. Would help balance them AND make sense in-universe

[@Riptide0505alt]

Pikmin 4 sort of tried that with a lowered throw height, but it didn't work. Different throw speeds for different pikmin is actually a really cool idea.

[@jiba998]

Finnally a new picked min video

[@Ax3lBlu3]

YES! NEW PIKMIN CONTENT‼️ Btw, Happy san Valentín day❤️🔥

[@conorfaught4033]

My idea for wing pikmin is that they can only use flying shortcuts if you have the max number of possible pikmin carrying it, otherwise they just drag the item like any other pikmin. This makes them technically the fastest possible way to carry certain treasures, but at must higher cost of resources compared to something like white or blue pikmin. Also, they need to be the weakest in combat by far and are unable to actually knock down flying enemies from the air, giving yellows more of a purpose

[@Riptide0505alt]

That carry nerf is a pretty cool idea, & adding a specific "winged lift" capacity that was lower than the max carry amount but still higher than the minimum would add really cool strategy.

[@MugenCannon97]

How to balance Pikmin: Give every Pikmin a brick, what they do with it is up to them.

[@CJdoesALOT]

Wow, you sure did balance it better than I thought!

[@i_play_other_games]

I think the types balance EACHOTHER out, but I think blues should be able to have 1.5x strength in water or something

[@theconsumerofpenguins81]

Making blues stronger in water wouldn’t really do anything. They were already your only option in those scenarios, now they’re just a little easier

[@Kronosaurus-1924]

eh, i’d say make them count as 2 pikmin when carrying stuff. then you want them even out of water.

[@Riptide0505alt]

I would say to just add SilokHawk's idea of a water bubble that gives extra damage for the first hit after entering water.

[@Just_a_guy909]

@@Riptide0505alt I agree

[@jijo6922]

I've always had the idea that winged pikmin would be better off as an olimar ability. Like he was only able to for some reason have only a few in a small pack to lift himself up, mostly for shortcuts or maybe even to avoid attacks. Thoughts?

[@kirbykraftgames]

Potential Rebalance idea for Winged Pikmin: Make them be unable to attack ground enemies (only airborne enemies with a stupidly weak modifier like the rebalanced Whites) but they could work as a “distraction” being able to fly around a grounded enemy and annoy them, which could reveal potential weak spots for certain enemies since they’ll try and reach up to attack the Winged Pikmin

[@shadowthief6471]

Yes 🔥 I would mod my switch just to play pikmin 4 without that 3 type limit

[@PJiggles]

Might be an unpopular opinion but I like what Pikmin 3 was going for with not having every type be in the main story mode but still having them in the game via side modes. Some Pikmin types should definitely not return for the story like Winged Pikmin but they could instead base some Mission Mode levels around them and have them there. A lot of people agree that Mission mode was the best part of Pikmin 3 so if they expand it and feature levels designed around specific types that don't appear in the main story I think that's be a good system

[@photonic083]

Oh hi pjiggles! I really did not expect to see you here. That's a good observation.

[@jykatyk567]

Great video and I'm pissing and shiting myself with excitement for the 251 video

[@wawe5557]

Something I found really interesting for balancing came from pikmin bloom of all places. In that game, purple pikmin have a carry capacity of five, rocks three and everyone else just one. I know the possibility of 1000 weight treasures is kind of iconic, but because most objects can be carried by only one or two purples, enemies have much more trouble stopping objects, even if they're slow, just because the treasure itself can protect the underlying pikmin with its hitbox. Doing it the way bloom does could go a great distance in both taking purples down a notch and making rocks more appealing- Yeah, purples are somewhat stronger, but they're squishier, so you might instead choose to use rocks. Heck, this change might even work under the three type restriction, but I hope that doesn't return.

[@BearDashAltt]

1:48 “don’t get replaced with anyone” A dank dog : A pikmin made of ice : 🧊 bomb : Glow pikmin :

[@Oretizm]

My idea for electricity rework: it makes pikmin unresponsive to the whistle for a good while and mainly place it near eating and crushing enemies

[@CreatorofSecks]

Make yellow pikmin be able to store data like a USB; this will allow you to hide all of your Pik34

[@beebringer9814]

I would balance purples and whites (in combat at least) would be to make them attack slower and faster respectively. so purples would deal 2x damage at half the speed, and whites could deal half the damage at 2x the speed. this fits the whole slow but strong purples and weak but fast whites, and also gives them both unique combat niches of punishing stuns or enemies that dont shake pikmin off often with purples, and making the most of short periods of vulnerability with whites. (it would also make spicy spray useless on purples but busted on whites, but spicy spray probably should be changed from setting damage to a fixed number, to a percentage boost anyways.)

[@cosmicskydragon333]

That literally doesn't, because they still deal 1.0x damage in the same time frame as anything else. For example lets say the base damage is 100, for normal Pikmin attacking 1 time a second is 1,000 damage. Now at half speed or .5 attacks a second means 5 attacks over 10 seconds each for 200 damage for 1,000 total. Now at double or 2 attacks a second means 20 attacks each at 50 damage for damage or 1,000 in total. You've now made whites the best Pikmin and purple worthless. For example lets say it takes 5.5 seconds before you need to call Pikmin back to avoid an attack. Whites would do 550 damage, Purple would do 400 damage. And a normal Pikmin would do 500 damage. To make matters even worse because Purples are slower they are more likely to die, in turn meaning they would likely need to deal closer to 3x damage to be viable leading to them being potentially too strong otherwise the whites and their less damage outpace them over the duration of the fight.

[@SillyAugusta]

I'd rather be stuck with 100 Red Pikmin for the entire game and never get another type.

[@Hercules_Flexing]

On a slightly related note to balancing the Pikmin... I kind of wish that the Dandori timed Challenges had a "vanilla" Oatchi; one with a predetermined move set. That way, the difficulty of the challenges could be built around Oatchi's abilities too. His "swallow" ability made a lot of them trivial for me once I unlocked it.

[@wootmasterzorsx]

I would agree to electricity being better suited to a quicker kill rather than instant kill, since that always felt like a weird discrepancy where every other elemental hazard is something you can save your Pikmin on but electricity kills. Maybe just have it where there’s electricity sparking over their leaves, to make it like other hazards. I do like the alternative idea for White Pikmin. Makes them a real risk versus reward type, and I think that does work for a game like Pikmin which is all about effective resource management. Maybe could even apply that to Winged Pikmin for balance purposes if we have to keep them around. Like, I would suggest Winged Pikmin can take shortcuts and all that, but they’re kinda slow since they’re already weak at combat. So translate that to their carrying strength by making them not much better than Purples for carry speed. That way, both Winged and White have reasons to use them for treasure transport, but not combat. But realistically, Winged are a huge pain to think of balance for, so they are probably the ones we can cut. Also, I have no real inclinations on Rock and Winged being late additions. I could see them having been an afterthought, but I also could just see Nintendo struggling to think of real good uses for all the types. All interesting ideas for balance, though. I especially liked the White and Purple balance suggestions.

[@The_gaslight_district_Fanboy]

I got an idea For a video, what if you make a video about how you can make Pikmin enemies more stronger, you always had a problem with that, and it would be interesting to see what you would do to make them more threatening and better just like in the first two games, maybe bring back the dwarf bulbrob calling for the big Bulbrob mechanic, or Wally hobbs trying to run away when they get damaged a lot, I know it’s gonna be tougher and it would be okay if you don’t like this video idea, but I hope you like it.

[@nobodyinparticular9640]

Guess the way I'd balance them pikmin would be... Reds: feel they're fine the way they are, perhaps just a slight boost in attack Blues: feel they're ok the way they are, maybe have them do normal damage instead if they did less than that (don't remember atm) Yellows: not to the pikmin themselves, but like you said, make electricity insta-ded again Purples: make them the strongest, but they're really slow, also stun is rarer to get, gotta gamble for it Whites: make them really speedy, but weaker than most of the other types, and maybe enemies eating them die with just one or two nommed Rock: feel they're kind of ok as they are, maybe just make them a lil slower due to being waddling rocks (not as slow as purples tho) Winged: make them the weakest and most fragile, maybe they remain stunned more when enemies shake them off, you're basically exchanging firepower for transporting stuff easier Ice: nerf the freezing, enemies take longer to freeze and unfreeze faster, or make frozen enemies take less damage from pikmin, also weaker attack too, if they don't already have that Glow/Bulbmin: they're kinda bonus op units that you can only use if you find them, so, guess they're balanced enough. But guess glow pikmin shouldn't be able to be farmed as easily as they can be like in pikmin 4 Would also say, while a 3 types restriction is awful and one of the worst things Nintendo could've thought for the game, think maybe a 5 types would be more balanced, but the better option would just be letting the players choose any they want to bring and decide for themselves how to play the game (something which nintendo just hates letting people do) Oh yeah, I forgot someone Oatchi: delete him

[@DoctorMinjinx]

For a long time I've had the same sentiments regarding Winged Pikmin. It always confused me how everyone claimed Purples in 2 were the worst balanced and most OP type in the series, when 3 Wings were far worse offenders.

[@braindeadgaming409]

I think to balance the three most finicky types properly i would add a priority system to the Pikmin that would be called a "tastiness" factor or something like that. Each Pikmin has a level of "taste" that would cause enemies to target certain types over others. Wings, Purples and Whites would be the most tasty, then reds, yellows and blues would be at a standard level, and and Ice and Rock Pikmin would be not tasty. This would make Wings and Purples extremely risky to leave alone as they are more likely to get chased after. Whites would be 4 times faster when carrying something and would also have a unique attribute where as they continue attacking an enemy they're speed of attack increases exponentially, upt to 15 times per second, however the second they are shaken off this resets. Making Whites viable in combat while also keeping a thematic weakness to them. Wings would keep the lower damage would have a damage nerf on grounded enemies but actually have the flying enemy damage buff people think that they have. However, many areas would have flying enemies or grounded enemies that can reach them would seek out Wings, making it tricky to use them. To make them not awful, grounded enemies that cannot reach Wings will still seek them out like they would for a walking Pikmin, making Winged Pikmin into a useful distraction against highly dangerous enemies. Wings can do chip damage from the air, while being completely safe from harm. Purples would be much more interesting. Raise their dps to 2.5, but they are also the MOST prioritized Pikmin type. Enemies busy with one group of Pikmin will drop everything they're doing and target Purples making them extremely risky to use. They're also slow, so Purples will essentially be the type you want exclusively in your squad or at your base when they aren't being closely escorted. Not just glass cannons, glass nuclear warheads. And finally, just make enemies tougher and more aggressive. That all would solve the problem with overlap and balance in my opinion

[@ShockHat734]

[@thatnectar-]

the lobotomy sound at 14:52 caught me off guard LMAO ☠️

[@Aniga34574]

One suggestion that I can think of for the wing pikmin is to cut their ability to carry heavy items, or at lest require 2x the wing pikmin to do the same as a regular pikmin. In turn, allow them to be able to carry the other pikmin over hazard like areas. Say a level is primarily a water level but has a small fire area that you need red pikmin to clear, but is really difficult or impossible to get any there normally. This could be scaled for particular pikmin and traversal. 1 wing for most, 2 wings for heavy's and 1 wing for 2 whites.

[@JELLYVENOGRACH]

i was not expecting touhou scarlet devil music in a pikmin vid lul

[@ramiel5628]

only problem with dropping white pikmin's damage so much is that when dealing with hazards that only they can attack it takes too long to deal with and turns into unnecessary bottle necks

[@Superflaming85]

I think there's an interesting way to make Yellow Pikmin more balanced, without changing a single one of their stats: Make them the first Pikmin type you get. One of their biggest flaws is that they're basically worse versions of Pikmin you already have by the time you get them, with only their small niches to make them stand out. That's also part of the reason why Reds don't feel much stronger to use: You only ever have them for combat, so instead of them feeling above average, every other Pikmin feels below average. But if you introduce Yellows first, then they become the baseline, seeing much more use. But you introduce them purely as the base Pikmin; No electric hazards or high treasures. Then, once you hit the mid-game when you have Reds/Blues/The flavor of the month, you start throwing in Yellow-based hazards and treasures. This helps both yellows, and the other types of Pikmin, stand out much more at all stages of the game.

[@thinginator90]

Imo the ideal Pikmin type balance is trimming it to just Red, Yellow, Blue, White, and Rock (and also maybe glows but idrc about them). If white's speed is buffed and they get their digging ability back, they could make for a pretty balanced scavenging Pikmin while not clashing with blues being able to take water shortcuts. And I think if Reds and combat are better designed, Reds and Rocks could coexist as the combat Pikmin. Reds are the safer, constant damage type while Rocks are the riskier, more focused type. This would never happen, but maybe they remove lock-on but give rocks a chance to stun so using them is high risk, high reward. Its also just satisfying to me to have the types be the primary colours, plus white and black

[@lancergv2331]

I like the idea of giving blues extra carrying ability. Like 1.5 or 2 per Pikmin. Not enough to obsolete purples, but have an interesting choice in environments without water. As for the types past the original trio, I think they just gotta restrict how many can be grown and let them be strong. Imagine they rework pellets so that you have tricolor pellets and then monocolor ones, tricolor can be R/B/Y and monocolor is strictly the matching type. Like wings can just be strong, but if there’s a limit of 20 and you gotta go back to the impact site for them then they’re not nearly as problematic. I think at this point if they don’t want to cut types or limit any then they just gotta do what 3 did and restrict given types to specific “stories.” Probably a better way to make more content without just resorting to dull and slow caves again anyway.

[@pulledpork9778]

A very minor balancing point not often mentioned is how bulbmin and glow pikmin differ in terms of flowering mechanics. Bulbmin flower like regular pikmin, so the player has to decide whether to invest resources into them. Sure, you could bolster your quad-immune pikmin for a hard dungeon, but if you instead give nectar to the rest of your squad, you get to keep their flowers even after you leave the cave. This also means the game encourages you to use bulbmin in candypop buds, since they de-flower whatever pikmin is used anyways. Meanwhile, glow pikmin passively grow their flowers and are very abundant, so you don’t need to consider them when divvying up resources to your squad. Pikmin 4 also flowers your whole squad with spicy spray as opposed to Pikmin 2, which definitely takes away some resource management from the player.

[@AllHailMe12431]

One potential thing to consider would be environmental conditions. Pikmin 4 explores this a little with cold environments, but what about others, like heat, heavy rain, static electricity, or strong winds? Heat and rain would be easy enough to understand. Heat means Ice pikmin are completely off-limits. They can only survive in the vicinity of the base, as there'll be som kind of protective measure there. Pikmin other than reds would have their abilities hampered by the heat, like reducing their carry capacity, whereas, unless they're reds, you need double the pikmin to carry anything, and they'll be slower to respond to commands due to fatigue. Rain limits the movements of everything except blues, and every other type can only move around when under an overhang of some kind, or they'll die. Static electricity, while not lethal on it's own, slows down the movement and attack speed of all pikmin except yellows, and possibly grounds the flying pikmin. Maybe you could make electrical attacks more lethal under these conditions too. Strong winds would make flying pikmin useless, as they'll just be carried off by the winds and die. Everything else works normally, except if they ever get tossed into the air by either the player, or an enemy while under windy contitions, they'll suffer the same fate. Exception being the purple pikmin with their higher weight. Feel free to throw your own ideas into the ring if you have any.

[@Dynamick65]

I always thought that the pikmin 3 purples could be a LITTLE better like they felt a bit neutered

[@michaelr3077]

something to balance rocks somewhat is how some enemies like the crushblat actually take less damage to rocks because of how spongy they are. theres actually a bunch of weird quirks with how much damage rocks do to different dwarf bulborbs, but i think you could add several enemies that are too squishy to take much blunt damage from rocks making all other types more viable to those enemies. You didnt consider flying enemies when talking about wing pikmin. Arachnorbs should probably gain higher resistance to wings so they dont invalidate yellows. You could also make it so wings actually make tall enemies slouch down so other types can reach them, that way they work together with other types. purples arent just damage, they obviously have their carry strength but a lesser utilized ability is their weight. Scale puzzles were removed in pikmin 4 but they did have enemies with grapple points that need to be weighed down. I still think this could be expanded upon. Flying enemies would have this but would be harder for purples to reach so wings are still preferable, but anything grounded would require a lot making purples the optimal type to use. Additionally when a flying enemy is downed purples could be used to keep them from getting back up. Imagine if purples could keep a masterhop from jumping as often allowing non rocks to have a safer opportunity to attack (masterhops skin might be too thick and rubbery to resist rocks so its a tradeoff to use them in the fight) edit: have two types of electricity, static that only stuns or maybe kills over a long time, and pure lighting strikes that insta kill pikmin. It allows some variation so that its not always dangerous and could be worked around but theres some scary scenarios where you'd prefer to be safe and bring yellows. theres no need for any types to become lost media (i doubt we can keep adding 2 pikmin every game without making them one time only gimmick pikmin)

[@NolChannel1]

Play into White's strengths and make them parasitic as well as poisonous. Lower their damage when they get eaten but if the poison results in a kill, multiple seeds spawn from the body based on some percentage of the enemy's onion value.

[@TheBossmann]

Since winged pikmin got nerfed to hell in 4, my solution (as well as bringing back their gimmicks from 3) is to buff their attack damage to other winged enemies. This would give them another use other than opening bamboo gates and ignoring terrain. It would be pretty cool I think.

[@Riptide0505alt]

Adding electrical flying enemies would also add a risk/reward element to said damage buff.

[@TheBossmann]

@@Riptide0505alt Oh yeah, Absolutely! The reward of a damage boost to an electric flying enemy with the risk of your flying pikmin getting a shock would excite the gameplay a little more!

[@shortcake6984]

tbh i feel like the type limit is actually an excellent way to balance winged pikmin - it turns the problem of taking other type's roles to an intentional feature. it makes you strategise as to whether you bring blue/yellow or winged pikmin and consider each of their skills (winged pikmin can reach up high and swarm enemies good, but yellows have extreme digging speed, blue pikmin are immune to water projectiles, can move through sprinklers and can beat enemies in the water whereas wings cannot). this is already present in base pikmin 4 with winged pikmin being able to replace blue pikmin in doppelganger den and yellows focused areas that lack electricity like the hero's hideaway. what I would do is keep a type limit but make winged pikmin the only type to have lower digging speed, so you have to seriously consider if butchering digging tasks is worth it for the shortcut and combat benefits, as well as making water projectiles a more dangerous hazard, especially in pools of water, maybe water enemies can splash water around, this would make using winged pikmin for blues role come at a cost instead of just being free. I also seriously think that buffing winged pikmin's damage to normal would make their combat perks feel a lot more satisfying like using rock pikmin or purple pikmin feels. also including enemies that interrupt carrying like breadbugs would make winged pikmin feel more valuable, since they are immune to having treasures stolen or messed with when flying. (finally i think winged pikmin need more obvious shortcuts, maybe having them visably painted pink so its obvious which parts wings can take?)

[@ReddBoi64]

The main issue with axing Pikmin is that they’re my freins

[@sethrohl1997]

I think Bulbmin might be... LOST MEDIA

[@Rebateman]

One way I feel like they could balance Whites is by making them the first type you find. That way, them damaging enemies when eaten feels like a tutorial where you still lose troops, but losing them is a valid strategy for if you don't know how to play yet. Then get blues or yellows. Then finally reds. Then the rest of them however Nintendo seems fit.

[@Blue_pikmin11]

Oatchi needs to go he ruins the game its like having a giant stronger pet bulborb he is immune to almost everything he can carry 100 like wth 😭 and he is just generally game breaking (in a bad way) just make oatchi... lost media. Oh yeah they should also bring back co-op mode from pikmin 3 that's the most fun I think I've ever had in gaming

[@DominicDiStefano-wf3rb]

9:12 look how they masacered my boys😭

[@sonicrunn3r895]

I think it's kinda funny how they “nerfed” rock Pikmin by reducing their crushing immunity (they actually die if crushed on hard surfaces in 3, still just burried on soft ones like dirt) but it's not something I noticed throughout the game, they really just got nerfed more by “you get the rock onion at the end of the game” and “there's not a lot of crystals in 4”. Honestly I think there was some missed opportunity here. A hard crystal cave where rock Pikmin get to shine and break crystals, but the floor is also a hard surface so you have to be careful of the threats rock Pikmin usually are great against. Overall I think the easiest way to balance the types more without having to change current systems would be more areas are designed for specific ones to shine. Like they gave reds their own exclusive cave in 4, blues in 2 and 4 have their exclusive one (you know which), I think if there were more opportunities to build caves around specific Pikmin then more of the types could get some moments to shine instead of being fully sidelined

[@The_Official_Optimar]

We could give winged pikmin added utility to carry captains and reduced damage to .1x multiplier to emphasize they are not for combat and then add like poison bodies of water, lava, or even wind puzzles for winged pikmin.

[@WingedFish66]

I think to make Bulbmin more distinct from Glow Pikmin, remove their immunity to all standard hazards, but in exchange give them immunity to enemies attacks that involve eating Pikmin (say for example they're immune to Bulborbs and Snagret attacks, but not enemies that kill via other means like the elements, crushing, ect.).

[@Monkey_D._Elliott]

Great video. Thank you. For me, my big blanket change would be to adjust everyone's power. Red: 1.5x Strength Blue/Yellow: 1x Strength Everyone else: .5x Strength I think if every utility Min is weaker than Blue/Yellow/Red then you automatically make players want to being at least one of the 03. One thing I'd like to see for Ice is the freeze to stay the same, but no spray and frozen enemies get 2x defence or some sort of health boost to make them harder to beat. Then you have to refreeze and do it multiple times, or you're more incentivized to actually run or redirect. 90 percent of what I'd change would be mapping stuff. You talk about this, but maps and caves with more options to complete the puzzles and navigations would make every Min better.

[@GuidingLightAngel]

I feel like a way to balance winged Pikmin is to give them an ability similar to how smash bros olimar does it, let him be carried by winged Pikmin in the air to explore areas only accessible to winged Pikmin. Another thing that could be done is that winged Pikmin could automatically roam around the map, picking up pellets accessible to them and bringing it back near the onion, like honey bees gathering pollen. Yet another thing that can be done to balance them out while still allowing them to be useful for taking shortcuts is to make more aerial enemies that only winged Pikmin can fight, and if they are weak fighters, it would be a thought decision if you want to risk them dying to an enemy that would take a while to take down with casualties, or simply take the longer but safer route. To push this even further, Winged Pikmin could have hazards specifically for themselves, like harsh winds that will blow away your Pikmin into cliffs or off of platforms, but winged Pikmin are fine since they can fly.

[@MagerBlutooth]

The way that Rocks bounce off enemies instead of latching on made me really think about how different Pikmin types could have different roles in combat. Like if Whites had a weak ranged attack that could chip enemies from a distance but couldn't attack directly. Or if freezing an enemy with Ice made all non-ice Pikmin freeze as well if they try to attack the enemy directly. Or if Winged Pikmin had no combat potential at all to compensate for them being so good at carryingthings, making their downside the opportunity cost of your squad's potency. These sorts of variations could let Reds stand out as the best "pure" combat type while still having combat roles for the other types that aren't just specific to their elemental rivals. The ideal for any Pikmin game is that you aren't locked to one "ideal" strategy to solve every problem and can choose your own playstyle. The one type that I always thought felt balanced pre-Oatchi was the Captain type. They have limited yet upgradable elemental resistances, more HP than the standard Pikmin, and their ability to throw Pikmin makes up for their weak damage potential. Not being controlled by an AI also gives them the capacity to bait enemies and dodge attacks better than other Pikmin types, but if all Captains are defeated, the day ends. Even when you get the Rocket Punch in Pikmin 2, it doesn't make you so powerful that the Captain itself can replace Pikmin in combat. Not to mention, the Captain can't carry things on its own. If they were to bring back a night mode, I'd rather it be a legitimately dangerous experience than a minigame and cut Glow Pikmin entirely. Bulbmin would be a much better fit for such a mode, requiring you to take out an enemy to restock your Pikmin army and not being able to two-shot a Smoky Progg.

[@GBDupree]

My thoughts on future balancing and color reduction: Remove white Pikmin, and give their speed trait to blues when out of water (but its normal speed in water). Now Blues are more useful overall! Remove Pinks as a type, OR change them to be an extra ability to scout ahead. In this case, when there are underground sections it doesn't tell you what pikmin are most useful unless you send Pinks to scout ahead, and then after some time it will tell you what you need. This makes it easier to strategize, especially if they can be used to fill out your overworld map as well, so you can grab the right pikmin before leaving the onions. Or even before landing to a new area! Perhaps have the ability to move onions like in 4 be tied to Pinks as well? Basically, they are a tool and can't directly attack or collect treasure But don't count for your field limit. Maybe give Purples the ability to instaKO when eaten like with white Pikmin since they are removed. OR controversally remove Purples too and give rocks the strength of 5 Pikmin so they aren't as strong, but they still have other uses besides breaking crystals/glass. So rocks are better as well. Maybe counteract this with Rocks being harder to seed and sprout. Yellows can cling to each other, this way you can make the electricity lines like in 3, but more strategically as it can be used anywhere. And because it can be anywhere, they could be used to build temp bridges, or even ladders to climb up things! I have no clue about Ice (because I haven't played 4), but they kinda break the idea of Pikmin, they are usually based on colors with the ability to WITHSTAND elements, NOT generate them. Yellows can't electrocute enemies for example. Rock are the closest to also doing this but only because they aren't called Black Pikmin, and they are unique physically but they don't do something like create rocks, they are just tough so I'm more lenient about them. My best idea is just what you said, make them much worse at freezing, or they can only slow down enemies unless they have a weakpoint that lets you freeze them. Bulbmin replace Oatchi, now you get Pikmin that can take over enemies for a short time, allowing you to command a Bulborb like Oatchi, or flying creatures like Pinks, BUT they can't be used to grab treasure (except for Breadbugs!). Alternatively, Have oatchi, but make him optional and he is what forces the 3 type limit, but no limit without Oatchi! PikPikmin! They do nothing! But they are somehow the cutest!

[@level2janitor]

a potential way to balance winged pikmin could be to make them a "valuable" type like purples and whites in pikmin 2, where they're deliberately very powerful but hard to get ahold of and only available in small numbers. the problem with pikmin 2 balancing things that way is it refused to actually commit to it - savescumming is very strong in pikmin 2, and there's no time limit so you can grind out as many as you need. add back in the time limit, make the game autosave every time you lose a pikmin and there you go

[@losisansgaming2628]

4:25 for that you could have them deal the same damage reds do but exclusively to flying enemies, and wings do half but are more convenient at hitting

[@mydude-j1g]

Shoutout to the Pokemon Colosseum music in the background I feel like one of the biggest reasons Ice Pikmin are so strong is Pikmin 4 is that they're both the best users for spicy spray as well as the best way of getting it. I think the spray drops from frozen enemies should be nerfed. The Purple Pikmin idea is interesting but I don't think it would work in a game with Ice Pikmin because their freeze is already a stun that doesn't rely on chance and gives you goodies. I think Purple Pikmin should also be able to slow down enemies when clinging to them. That way they have a niche that Ice Pikmin don't have and can contribute even if you get unlucky with the stun.