DIY circuit board - the old way

[@johncoops6897]

I started with electronics in the 1960's and I've never etched a circuit board in my life. I've also never used the stuff we see on some KZbin Channels where you bridge single pads to create a circuit, that was too time consuming. Vero Board was very popular and more than good enough for any simple circuit that I designed, and many magazines published here in Australia had PCB layouts for Vero Board so they were easier for hobbyists. No need to drill holes either, which is a massive bonus! With Vero board you learn to lay everything out in rails, kind of like a breadboard, and it works great in practice. I still use some small amplifiers, metering adaptors and 74 series logic thingies that I made 50 years ago!

[@GCSol]

My dad was an electronics teacher. I remember him making circuits boards like this when I was a kid back in the 60s and 70s.

[@AnotherMaker]

I love this. I think you're right about the warnings. I was cleaning out an old building and I picked up 2 jugs of strong muriatic acid and was walking with them and the bottoms broke out (one when carrying and the other from dropping it when the first one broke) and I burned the skin on my calves pretty dang badly. I had the radio shack chemicals as a kid and those were such good memories. Made me feel like a wizard. Thanks for sharing.

[@ianspencer7758]

Very interesting video, brought back many memories from my youth.

[@matambale]

Entirely authentic reproduction of the process *including* forgetting to mirror the circuit. (Edit: it just occurred to me, several decades too late (and that's not a record) - put a freakin' sticker on the ferric chloride bottle that asks, "did you remember to flip the image?")

[@markfergerson2145]

Last time I did that I just soldered some component lead wire to the chip holes and flipped the chip over, and soldered it in dead bug style.

[@JavierCanzobre]

Ohh, wow, you brought me memories, thank you sir

[@retireeelectronics2649]

Feeling old I dug into my pile of old stuff. Still have some sheets of TEC-200 transfer film. One step up from what you just did, but not about to run those sheets through a photocopier to do a carbon transfer. Didn't know about the HCl and H2O2 trick, always had a bottle of the good stuff. Nice video brings back memories .

[@gkdresden]

In the late 1970ies until the early 1990ies used to do it almost the same way. The PCB design was draftet on a sheet of semi-transparent paper with millimeter grid. This paper was put with the drawing side on top of the copper side of the PCB material for mirroring the design 🙂. In the first step I used a needle tool to pinch markers for the holes through the paper into the copper. Then I used a special pin to draw the connetions and soldering pads for the devices on the copper surface. After etching the holes were drilled through the positions of the pinches. The pinches were also guiding the drill. As etching agent I have used 1 amount of 30% HCl acid put into 2 amounts of water plus 1 amount of 30% H2O2 at the end of preparation. The etching was very fast, within 5 to 10 minutes. I have once tried ferrochloric solution but it required heating to 40 °C and keeping the temperature and it lasted 30 min or more. I discovered that I don't need to move the pcb while etching when I let the PCB floating on the surface of the liquid by use of surface tension. When it is possible to see the copper structure through the epoxy you can stop etching.

[@CanadianComputerCollector]

Another killer project. Very cool dude.

[@edgeeffect]

My old grand-dad used to build wireless sets with tubes and point-to-point wiring... he'd probably tut at our "new fangled" hand-drawn PCBs ;)

[@3DJapan]

I was born in 77 but if I was a little older I would have loved this as a kid. I did have a crystal radio kit from Radio Shack that I loved. That's how I learned that a microphone is just a speaker with the power reversed.

[@IanSlothieRolfe]

When I was at school I did an "OA" level electronics course, and as part of the asessment I built a capacitance meter (I recall it had a couple of 555 timers). When I laid out the circuit board I made the same mistake.... I was going to bodge it up but my teacher insisted I redid the circuit board. (we didn't have to mess with chemicals, we just took the boards to the metalwork department and they threw them in their acid baths!) At the time I remember being annoyed but I'm glad he insisted, my second attempt was much neater and I remembered to put my name on it :) When we were clearing my mums house out when she went into a care home a couple of years ago, I rediscovered it and despite spending the last 20 years in the loft (it eventually got superceded by one range on my multimeteer!) it was still working as well as it ever did.

[@MrBobWareham]

Me to I used the good old brown stuff that stained everything it touched with a bubble rising to the top or just slosh it about in a glass dish, but I did manage a double-sided board not bad, so this was so good to watch, thanks

[@qwaqwa1960]

The good old days. Nothing beats FeCl for the FULL, colourful, stainy experience ;-} I was making my own proto PCBs right up into my second job, though we did have a photoresist setup and a few other niceties. Even managed double-sided (non-PTH)... No...I don't miss it!

[@OtusAsio]

Old memories...that was fun to do back then and fun to see again after all those years... Thank you for this one!

[@larrysteele2609]

I had that circuit kit from Radio Shack in the seventies, those are the days

[@johnfoster3895]

I never knew this until my last employer, but solder has a shelf life! I found this out when the QA person came around to each work station and took our current rolls of solder. We were then issued NEW rolls of solder in the sizes we needed. The "OLD" solder was then placed at the exit door with a sign saying we could take home as much as we wanted, but it could not be taken back to our stations. When I inquired as to why this was being done, I was then informed that the 'shelf life' of the solder was about to expire. I learned something! I also now have enough solder for the rest of my life - and then some (shelf life be darned).

[@pileofstuff]

This old Radio Shack solder I have (and more than one roll of it) must be 20-30 years old. i suspect the biggest factor in the shelf life is the flux in the core

[@johncoops6897]

The flux does deteriorate, which in "mission critical" commercial applications is a consideration. They probably started swapping out the solder when they noticed a large number of dry joints and faults that required rework.

[@meinsda5983]

if i was young we also made pcb like you pileofstuff, but we have allready pcb programms like orcad or eagle. Also i have a great program on my Amiga. We print them out two times and the we expose the board ... then the same procedure you do...

[@whitesapphire5865]

We used to use ferric chloride on the farm, back in the day when it was common practice to dock the tails of piglets. In that respect, I missed the boat, I could have had gallons of the stuff for next to nothing. But, talking of DIY circuit boards, I used to save old PCBs to build on - I'd strip off the existing copper, and use the component leads in lieu of the copper tracks, that's how skint we were back then, but happily, my granddad was a TV and radio fixer, and always had a copious supply of scrapped sets and components to work with!

[@bzoli5706]

As a high school student, I made PCBs in a similar way 36 years ago. I drew the pads and the traces on transparent paper, which I placed onto a math notebook page. So there were 2 IC feet in a raster. Then I folded the transparent paper upside down onto the PCB and fixed it with an adhesive ribbon. I marked the holes with a center punch. I drilled out the PCB. Then I drew the pattern on the PCB. So it was easy to make a 2-sided panel too.

[@740mc]

I do PCBs this way (but with ferric chloride and draw and print the layout via Eagle PCB), i've made a couple just a few months ago, it's quite relaxing

[@frankowalker4662]

Cool. It worked first time. :) This takes me back to the 80's when I had the chance to design my own Bass/Trebble control circuit board for a stereo I was building. It was so much fun and took 3 attempts for it to work. LOL.

[@andymouse]

Those were the days !

[@3ATIVE]

The youth today will never know our struggles - Well done on first power-up. - I'm reminded of something my old Electronics teacher used to say: "If it works first time, there's something wrong". 😁

[@larryb.lindsay2366]

Nice memories. Thanks. I would make much wider traces and gently warm the solution which makes the etching faster and less chance of the etchant creeping under the tape or ink.

[@jayherde0]

Been dabbling in electronics for 50ish years. Never knew about home-brew etching, Thank you for that. ... addl benefit of using a circuit design program is that you can print the component side and stick it on the component side of the finished board. A couple of push-pins come in handy for aligning it on the board and for finding/punching all holes for components. 😉

[@colintett6872]

Great video - brought back fun memories. Re your mirroring issue, you could have gently bent the 555’s leads 180 degrees in the vertical plane and installed it upside down on the component side! That’s assuming the leads were long enough that way... 😉

[@pileofstuff]

That's genius.

[@colintett6872]

@@pileofstuff And you wouldn't have had to own up to your error, either. No one could have seen the label! Thanks for the laugh!! All the best from a fellow tinkerer in Australia. Colin

[@BurkenProductions]

This is how we make pcbs today too like why not hehe best way!

[@SeanBZA]

Still got the old PCB drill I got a similar number of years ago, now in a better plastic recycled box, with the few dozen small PCB drill bits I got over time, in assorted sizes, that I used for quite a long time. Hands up who forgot to mirror the board as well, so I still used it, but took the IC's and simply bent the legs to face the other way. Hey, if AEG used it on the Lavamat Deluxe Electronic washing machine, an, at the time, top end washing machine, and one of the first with microprocessor controls, instead of a rotary dial, so could I. No markings except a pair of depressions from the mould ejection pins, and a look in the Motorola microprocessor data book to find the 6800 OTP part that fitted the unusual power, crystal and reset pinouts, and I was convinced it was mirrored. Only reason it went was the required new bearings, seal and spider for the drum were about 20% more than the cost of the LG top loader that replaced it.

[@saxiecpt]

Awesome! Used to do that myself many years ago!

[@hstrinzel]

The EDDING 3000 marker works well! At least it DID when I used it 30 years ago... :) Still available on Amazon... It covers the traces so well that you would NOT have needed to re-inforce the traces with solder. :)

[@TerryLawrence001]

OMG! You just invented surface mount IC's ! Thanks for the re-memories!

[@beanyrat]

Exactly what I was thinking. Was literally crying this video made me laugh so much, one of the best videos i've seen in ages demonstrating the pain of trying to do stuff in the late 20th century. So many memories🤣

[@sebastian19745]

I used math paper (with 0.5cm squares) to draw the right space for the pins/holes. It was close enough for DIL14 ICs. Also I used a permanent marker to draw the traces. As for chemicals, I only used ferric chloride. It is messy, stains, but with care, there were no accidents. When etching, I warmed the solution and shake it. After soldering the components and cleaning the board (solder side) I used a paint marker to protect the board, like a solder mask. Sometimes I intentionally flipped the components (ICs, transistors) footprint to mount them on the bottom as SMD. All my prototypes were good and working albeit they were not the prettiest things. I used this technique for boards as tiny as 1x1cm up to ( the biggest I remember) around 10x15cm (a fairy complicated light organ). Also I used this technique to make my first computer with Z80 CPU, but it was made on few small boards with a back plane.

[@dnorman2134]

I guess I was spoiled as a kid. My local radio shack had a good supply of ferric chloride, copper clad and letraset transfers. Plus i had and still have a dremel with a drill press.

[@Mrflash222006]

This is the way i did my own boards way back when - then went to Electroset, now days if I need to do a board i use the iron on laser printed sheet and sodium persulphate

[@wthornton7346]

@14:10 the chuckle of success!!

[@edgeeffect]

Nurd Rage did some good videos of recycling spent chemistry from this process.

[@sorcererstan]

I'm surprised the sharpie worked to block the chemical. I though that was only helpful when using the photo-resist method. Very interesting!

[@shroomy7199]

Great vid thank you. Make yourself an archimedes drill with the 3d printer loads of designs on the web

[@DrexProjects]

All of my boards were made like that until about 3 years ago when I did my relay board and had AllPCB make the boards. I have a big ass bottle of Ferric Chloride 3 feet away from me. Kdenlive looks nice. I never have edited a video, You can tell if you watched any of my videos. Thanks for the video.

[@Jkauppa]

have a copper coated pcb, print a protecting surface layer with resin 3d printed, wash, etch, done

[@pileofstuff]

Good application for those who have a resin printer.

[@digihz_data]

Nostalgic :)

[@tinygriffy]

It is indeed very rewarding to create a circuit board like this, more than one would imagine ;) But yes, you need chemistry skills first to be able to do it. So, to do it only once a maker-lab might be a good place to go. ;) Thanks for showing this !! (.. and KiCAD is really not that difficult to use :P .. with photosensitive pcb material an UV lamp and an ink printer loaded with transparent foil and the blackest black - you can etch really nice hi resolution stuff into copper not only traces and footprints :))

[@SimpleElectronics]

Hey Kent! Hit me up if you want a free 1-on-1 KiCad lesson - no stress just hanging out and drawing circuits! I enjoyed watching you struggle through this - if you want to take it to the next level, I have some ideas in mind that you can try before I get the chance to as well!

[@noggin73]

I had good results with a laser printer & photo paper with the ironing method. Using ferric chloride. No solder mask so I just made a mess. Need to try again some day.

[@pileofstuff]

I'm going to keep trying different CAD programs until I find one that my brain can deal with.

[@albanana683]

What a great relearning experience for you, and us. Kind of a Frankenstein mash up in the end, but IT VERKS. I keep meaning to try hand PCB etching, BigClive has a couple of good tutorials, but Vero board with point to point soldering is just too damn easy.

[@johncoops6897]

Agreed - I never saw any need to make a PCB, since I was so used to using Vero Board.

[@blurredlogic916]

:) yay Just upscale that to making a distortion guitar pedal 😵

[@TerryLawrence001]

I did my last board with my 3D printer but I mounted a spring loaded tube as a sharpy holder to the extruder mount. I think there is a pen holder on thingaverse.

[@pileofstuff]

That's a clever hack

[@edgeeffect]

I wonder if thicker traces is the answer... to minimise the need for repairs and using up less chemistry... although, if they're too thick you end up needing to fix patches where it hasn't etched enough instead of where it's etched too much......

[@andymouse]

We used to call this fun, but fancy forgetting to mirror it !!!...cheers.

[@nickpelov]

You can reduce etching part to 1-2 minutes if you rub the pcb with cotton while submerged in acid

[@pileofstuff]

i was concerned about rubbing the marker and//or tape off. another option is to run an air bubbler in the solution.

[@HazeAnderson]

Success! IMO the only mistake to not make is getting injured. I would try this but I am bad enough about holding onto dead batteries and light bulbs ...

[@jstro-hobbytech]

Awesome video. I have all the chemicals but I use veroboard instead lol

[@Johadart]

Hi Kent, great awesome video from back in time, mate there are easier programs to create pcb boards other than kicad, way to hard and too in depth, great job though, keep up the awesome work, p.s if I ever come to visit Canada, I will be definitely visiting the breweries to try these awesome beers you display.. love your work buddy 🤙🏼🇦🇺🤙🏼🇦🇺🤙🏼🇦🇺

[@pileofstuff]

Glad to hear you're enjoying it.

[@TheEmbeddedHobbyist]

that’s not a rookie mistake, your just making it double sided. :-)

[@adam850]

If I need a small board, I'll use OshPark, because they are close by in Portland Oregon.

[@pileofstuff]

I wish there was a board fab in my country. International shipping kills both the fast and cheap part of the equation.

[@johncoops6897]

I just use Vero Board. No work, no etching, no drilling. so much easier than all this "designa circuit board" stuff.

[@pileofstuff]

@@johncoops6897 There are many ways to do this hobby. Each has it's own positives and negatives. It often comes down to personal preference. Very few methods are objectively wrong, though.

[@johncoops6897]

@@pileofstuff - of course ir's certainly not _wrong_ however it often unnecessary to make a PCB for a simple project like this. In the same way that you don"t need to program an Arduino to blink an LED, you also don't need to make a PCB to use a 555 or Astable to blink an LED.... 😉

[@thisoldjeepcj5]

I'm really not missing "the good old days" right now. Thanks for the video.

[@BurkenProductions]

Lame of you then. Cos this is the normal way of making pcbs nowadays too

[@SidneyCritic]

Which program did you try, because there are hard ones and easy ones.

[@pileofstuff]

Most recently it was KiCad. I spent more time trying to fix error messages than actually working on the circuit. But in the past I have tried a few of the online ones as well.

[@dtec30]

did you ever use a dalo pen ??

[@pileofstuff]

I'm not familiar with that name.

[@linuxgreybeard9945]

Helping hands? Pffffft. When I was a kid building electronic projects I had a heavy pair of pliers with an elastic band wrapped around the handle.

[@andreweastland9634]

To late now but next time just bend the legs on the chip upwards and stick it in upside down.

[@andrewkieran8942]

Was this sponsored by JLCPCB? 🤣

[@pileofstuff]

i winder if I'll hear from them after this?

[@onecircuit-as]

Blinkenlights! Nice work - don’t release it as a kit for the kiddies. 😳⚗️👨🏼‍🔬

[@pileofstuff]

"Next step: ask your parents to pass the acid..." yeah, that probably won't be a popular seller.

[@johncoops6897]

Anything that blinks is banned now days. It might cause epilepsy! Make sure to warn viewers if you are switching the video lights on and off, you don't want to cause any need for their eye's iris to to adjust!

[@Irilia_neko]

We are talking about an old Technologie used one million years ago 😂