Pilot Error in a Private Jet to Los Angeles - Pilot VLOG 63

Here is our trip from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida to Van Nuys, California in the Gulfstream G-IV. After departure, there was some confusion on our flight plan, and ATC gave us a phone number to call for a potential pilot deviation. See what happens!
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[@Steve-ev6ow]

Francine takes care of her “boys” first! What a sweetheart, she reminds me of my beautiful wife. Still enjoying these great vids on your way to 100k subs. Thank you again, gentlemen!

[@matthewbarber4240]

Hi Guys, Matthew here living the airline contact centre life. I used to be despatch at LCY. I was very impressed with your diplomatic handling of incident. Sadly, I've encountered too many pilots who would have reacted very negativity towards the ATC guy on the phone. We're all human and mistakes can happen. You guys rock and are a credit to the aviation industry!

[@letsgobrandon7112]

The PDC routing sent was correct,….the problem was the “amendment” to your routing (Revision One) wasn’t given to you prior to your departure. When a revision is made, then the person making the revision will call the person giving the clearance a call on the landline advising them of the revision. Centers receive an A/C’s clearance 45 minutes prior to departure time, and the Towers receive it 30 minutes prior. Centers get them 15 minutes earlier so they can make any changes that need to be made. If a change is made within that Towers 30 minute window then the changing “authority” will make that landline call to assure the revision is given to the pilot.

[@hockeyref8789]

Another great job!! Keep up the great work you are doing!! I have a brother in law who is the AaTC manager at PKB and I know all of us make a mistake or find the system has a flaw. If used as a learning tool great!! If use to bash someone not so good. Sean great job of handling the situation and also your kind words for ATC, although somewhat of a slam towards them at the end. Hope it is used by all in aviation to help keep everyone safe. Blue skies!!!!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

We definitely don't intend to bash on ATC by any means...they typically do a great job for us. I agree 100% that it should be used as a learning tool to prevent these things from happening in the future.

[@airpharm2172]

great team work thorough out flight, especially around VNY arrival, John is always onestep ahead of the bird, ATC and the like, and Sean is very technically astute, love when pilots prevail over govt , such BS on the clearance stuff. nice move to be diplomatic but really....

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Thank you!

[@dvatp]

Never received a clearance via PDC before but did some research on how this process works. As a computer scientist (and ATP) I absolutely cannot believe the FAA authorizes a clearance delivery process like PDC that does not involve any confirmation of receipt of a critical message (i.e. the clearance) or provide a means for pilots to confirm the integrity of the message (i.e. the correct route assigned to the tail number of the airplane) with ATC (See AIM 5-2-1(d)). Seems to me PDC should involve a simple hash of the message elements (tail number, route, altitude, etc.) and all aircraft should be required to provide the hash to clearance delivery to confirm receipt of a good message. The current PDC process is broken....as this video clearly demonstrates. Of course, no fault to the awesome crew of Presidential 69. I really enjoy watching your vids. Keep it greasy side down guys!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Usually the verification of a good PDC message is given by confirming the squak code with either clearance delivery or ground control. Some places don't even require this though. I do agree that there is room for error in the system.

[@richardhurless574]

I don't see this as a problem with the PDC system. The flight plan was sent correctly, the change was a missed call by the tower controllers.

[@jerrykorman7770]

dvatp I briefly looked into this and am also surprised - and concerned - about the apparent built-in serious security concerns. Eg: ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=8086144 Although flight crews are highly trained and professional - as this video demonstrates - the potential for misuse seems quite high

[@charlesfinley2350]

dvatp The only thing we usually get asked is to confirm the Squawk code. Seem reasonable to give a little more confirm info with CD or Ground when checking in. But I guess that’s what PDC is supposed to save time with.

[@MrLikeke]

This would be what the ASRS is for. Did you file a NASA report?

[@budowens6478]

ATC said they heard your clearance on the tapes, then they said it was their mess up, then you proved them wrong, seems like they don’t like to take the blame on anything. Great job, keep up the good work!!!

[@jerrykorman7770]

Bud owens name one government or quasi-government agency that accepts blame for their f*** up. I can’t either

[@lrodpeterson3046]

As a retired controller (30 years), who is also a pilot and who had a 14 month detail in Quality Assurance (ZAU), I am embarrassed by the ZMA action exhibited in this video. I can assure you that if I had been in the office, the very first thing I would have done would be to have the tower counterpart review his tapes first before anything else. Clearly, everything would have stopped there if he had. It was unfair to you to have spent 4-5 hours in the air agonizing over a possible career threatening action. Not the FAA I worked for! Also, just as an aside, over 50 years ago I got my ratings at OPF when it was the busiest airport in the world, surpassing perennial record holder VNY. I flew around South Florida for 18 months in the mid '60s. Know it (and the ATC system) very well. Glad things worked out, although your video said "to be continued" so maybe there's more to the story. Please accept a valueless apology for a worthless agency action. Never should have happened.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Great to hear! No need to apologize, as we knew pretty quickly that we did nothing wrong. There is another video for that trip, but not much remaining to that part of the story. I hope you enjoy it!

[@coma13794]

Nothin' but class. Nicely done.

[@buddrinkerdrinks]

maybe it happened cause the hiring standards have changed for the faa? seems to me i remember seeing or was it reading about how the faa standards on hiring have dropped over the years.

[@Goldengatevideo]

LRod Peterson 4-5 hours!! Omg

[@ashlabogan7084]

LOL funny how reading through these comments everyone has come to your defense, you guys are LOVED. GREAT JOB AGAIN.

[@garethleitner9547]

Happy to hear that you guys were cleared and that the MAN admitted their mistake. Too bad not every other pilot has as much documentation to back up their actions as you guys do.

[@celestialfix]

Great video......nice to see Francine back. With regard to the ATC issue, it seems like someone is trying to blame *their* mistake on you guys......You guys are doing great and setting the example in the air. BTW, a nice documentary you guys might enjoy watching with your families is "One Six Right: The Romance of Flying" which was filmed at Van Nuys and which features the (late) famed director, producer, actor and Citation X pilot, Sydney Pollack.

[@davidwilliams1664]

"One man's chop is another man's turbulence".... nice!

[@jerrykorman7770]

David Williams Jon's sinister chuckle was nice too

[@mikehaney2583]

Love watching these videos but I'm curious how many other viewers are non pilots like myself.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I've really wondered that myself...

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life time for a poll. You need three choices: current pilot, non pilot, former/retired pilot. Mark me down as the last option

[@robertmaza4272]

I'm a non pilot and I check everyday for the next video. I have the Flight Sim X and I try to duplicate your flights after each one. You guys are a real joy to watch! Awesome team work!!!

[@thomwalker8501]

Private Pilot, single engine land, complex, and CFI Glider qualified.

[@BDMcGrew]

I'm a legally blind armchair pilot with X-Plane and Prepar3d; does that count!

[@cejay67]

Never thought that pilots would need dash cams as well!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

HAHA!

[@leejohnson7293]

No doubt!

[@stormeagle28]

Wait until birds carry dashcams.

[@jodimiller7931]

the view of the center console and yokes was very cool!

[@mattcollins4550]

I used to fly that northern SOCAL / Antelope Valley / Gormon VOR / Oxnard airspace in a 172 doing survey work every day for a while. Between the traffic, turbulence, and terrain, it was one of the more stressful places I've ever operated.

[@stevea2980]

For SubCook below on this list of comments and of course a very fine G4 crew! Ex-Submariner (Polk SSBN 645)) and Pilot (ATP/CIFI/FETJ). Old and retired from any kind of real work outside of the house. LOL I would note that in the late 60's our boat had a glass cockpit display for flying the boat. It had a Red Highway in the Sky type format. It was classified pretty high as an experiment between the Navy, Air Force and NASA to see if a glass tv like display would work for the pilot. It was called the "Conalog". Some mentions on the net but not much. Glass on a sub long before an airplane! Got to love it! LOL

[@CorporatePilotLife]

That's awesome! I hope someone doesn't come knocking on your door for telling us about it now...HAHA!

[@jerrygonzales5395]

great video guys nothing like a little mix up from the atc to get the blood flowing on a monday!!

[@craigb.4737]

That's ATC FAA for ya! Your such a Professional. Cool heads prevail! Blue Skies to you sir! Love all your videos. Excellent presentation and clear articulation. Thanks man!

[@davet11]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing and your professionalism is quite inspiring. Was watching the entire exchange with ATC and thinking how dangerous that would be single pilot in the soup without autopilot...... I've held off getting an instrument rating specifically because it can get you into such unpredictable situations. There's no way a single pilot would have got out of that cleanly with just their clearance printout. Good job.

[@wbanach100]

I have been watching for awhile and this vlog was the best. . Like it when you are talking strategy and solving all those little problems that make a flight. Also good to hear captain talking you can hear him thinking you too make a great crew keep up the good work. Thank you

[@willyt7241]

It looks like the FLL clearance delivery position was required to issue a "FRC" -full route clearance due to an amended clearance but missed it! So, the field route is no longer in the faa system, all subsequent controllers expect you to be on the changed route you never were issued. Unfortunately the controller will probably not received the attention a pilot would dye to their error. Too often it its "blown off" by management. It is also an example too not be too worried as a pilot until you discuss the matter with ATC. Although these days ATC has the ability to access audio tapes very quickly due to digital recording. If a controller asked a pilot to call I would usually listen to the tape right away to determine what transpired. When such things as an altitude bust would happen, I would listen for the assignment and read back before the pilot called. Although often the controller would either be incorrect in what they thought was assigned, or miss a read back. ALWAYS as a pilot read back control instructions! It is your insurance. If you do what you read back you are covered!!! For this reason I instruct controllers it is more important what the pilot reads back then what the controller says!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

You said it exactly. They were supposed to give an amended clearance, and even marked on the strip that they had, but they never did. Everyone screws up at some point...I'm just glad no one got violated or hurt over it.

[@willyt7241]

Thomas Foster if you are saying controllers are more accountable for errors than a few years ago then that is a big change and not consistent from what I am told by current controllers. I retired from the FAA 6 years ago and I have been told there is less accountability than ever. In a question pertaining to a loss of separation we used to remove the specialist from position to conduct an investigation. My understanding now is the service area will send an email if a loss is detected, and decertification and remedial training may or may not take place. In my 25 years as a supervisor I observed less importance being placed on quality control and accountability for several reasons.

[@AB-tj4zk]

25 years as a sup...good god, how boring is your life? In all seriousness, I agree and disagree. I get why the FAA has moved from the "three strikes" rule to the less punitive self-reporting/ATSAP method of doing business. I suppose studies say having controllers who have had a deal or two working in fear of that next error is worse than the alternative. But, of course, that downside is that you do get people who get complacent with reporting (or just don't care) and things that should be reported and controllers who should get remedial don't. Pros and cons to both approaches.

[@willyt7241]

AB 123 its a tough spot. My first facility was DEN Tower/TRACON in the 80's. We took very seriously operational errors/deviations. And did our very best to maintain a high level of service. I watch this level of concern erode over the years to "I won't say anything I'll just file a report and be immune". That attitude was prevelent when I retired, that is what worries me.

[@AB-tj4zk]

w turner I hear ya. I wasn't a controller back then but I imagine every facility took deals seriously. There were punitive repercussions back then so it makes sense. My hope is that the sense of complacency is mostly due to the fact that the FAA simply lacks the punitive measures, which again, I think has pros and cons. If a controller has a deal, notifies the sup, files an ATSAP, does more action need to be taken? I guess my answer would be it depends on how egregious the error. For the "minor" stuff, I would hope the whole process of MORs/ATSAPs shows the controller knows they effed up and learned from it, but it would be naive of me to say that's always the case. But there will always be people who take advantage of the lack of punitive measures.

[@k1mgy]

If a controller said that they gave you the amended clearance by radio, causing you to be accused of deviating from a clearance and leading to near enforcement action, and then the tapes showed that no such clearance was given by radio, that controller should be fired. There is NO excuse for that crap!

[@richc47us]

Seemed like an effortless landing....Van Nyes has a lot of history...Enjoyed the conversation of the flight plan with ATC, I enjoy actual interaction that you don't get to hear on other channels. thanks guys!

[@toddmetzger2617]

That was really interesting to see how all that was worked out. I admire the professionalism by both of you. Great video.

[@cactusAF]

Good camera angle when Mike flies. I was surprised when the departure controller was sorting out your clearance. Kudos to that controller. Patrick in KABQ

[@davidduganne5939]

FAA mgmt to staff @ shift change briefing: "Don't try to bluff your way out of anything. They have better technology than us"...

[@CorporatePilotLife]

HAHA!!

[@jerrykorman7770]

David Duganne “if you guys are handling Presidential 69, do everything by the book. Them boys are sharp as a tack”

[@mikeparker6322]

Great editing. Also, the new view of the instrument panel with the split screen feels like I am in the cockpit.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

That view seems to be a big hit...I'll try to keep that one going.

[@lucabertagnolio9166]

Yup Sean, that side view with the yoke straight in our face is golden! Good spot for the camera! 👍🏻

[@jerrykorman7770]

Mike Parker I agree, this view is great. Good job Shaun

[@FootlooseMusic]

I agree , great view of instruments. Really clear on my tablet.

[@cmans79tr7]

Ditto.

[@anthonynicodemo6388]

I like the communication between you guys, good teamwork. Thanks for the vids.

[@BenA-bu1cz]

They screw up and want to blame someone else. Good for you guys. Hey, how was the empanadas? Yummy. Good Job guys thanks again for for bringing us along. Keep them coming.........

[@CorporatePilotLife]

We recently discovered those empanadas, and they are really good. They sell them at the café at the Atlantic FBO. I can't go in that place anymore without buying a half dozen at least.

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life if they have chilli and ice cold beer, count me in

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life never mind the chili, just have ice cold beer. I'm already having one of those sort of Monday's!

[@carlmay4205]

Im no pilot but your coolness and pro demeanor is what Id like to think I could get to. Well done.

[@pinebearclub]

I remember saying always trust the controller, maybe not huh? Glad it was cleared up and you’re safe. Enjoy SoCal! Bryan from Vancouver

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Trust but verify...

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life a good philosophy to have with government(s) too. We pay taxes, they’re supposed to work *for* us, not against us.

[@kencrossman8414]

I am a private pilot with about 700 hrs in Piper Cherokee. Have endorsement for gear and variable speed prop. Lost medical after heart transplant so these videos let me fly vicariously.

[@mcotherman5957]

Was out at KTKI on Saturday. The hanger I was in had a nice G-IV in it. Bigger than I expected! Enjoy the videos!

[@longreach207]

Thanks for such fantastic aviation videography. You let us peer into the protocols, instrumentation AND the clouds! In particular, thanks for sharing the ATC incident. Glad you stuck to your guns!!

[@jimshowalter9522]

I really liked the video at the beginning that was shot from the right side...it showed lots more of the cockpit displays and controls. Awesome job! I also liked the inset view from the front outside camera. Thanks guys!!

[@danpend]

Far be it from a controller ever screwing up! Great professionalism, guys!

[@billbargar2284]

Shaun it was great how you handled ATC and wonderful to see Francine, you need to remain the 3 musketeers of the sky.

[@nicktheav8r269]

Glad you guys were in the clear, never fun to get a phone number to call. Nice job landing 34L, it can feel real tight with base basically being over the Santa Monica mountains.

[@gregmonhollen4327]

I really enjoy watching the videos the view is beautiful from your front window

[@howardschatan2064]

Traffic is obscenely heavy... and ATC mixup. Worse than the 405 Freeway... You guys are serious PROS. LOVE THE VIDEOS.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Thank you!

[@connorlorio5280]

Stayed at the Airtel Plaza last month right there by Van Nuys Airport for an SAE Aero Design Competition at that big field yall flew over on final approach. It was awesome seeing all the business jets blast out of Van Nuys all day long.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I've stayed at the Airtel before...pretty nice place!

[@judgej.8816]

It's good to learn that there was never a violation on your part and unfortunate that someone tried to blame you. Vamonos! A la playa! 👍

[@simonticehurst5899]

Love you guys,i am not a pilot but love your expertise and experience,which is usually earned over many years and the banter( it's the way you react to each other) you both are a couple of natural pilots,if you were born with wings you would probably fly around the world,with Francine of course,keep making your amazing reports,Many Thanks

[@TheRorymcloughlin]

Francine have you guys spoilt!

[@sqwk2559]

How would you know?

[@gapster46]

One mans chop is another mans turbulence at 18:48 is exactly what I was thinking just before he said that.

[@richardcasey4439]

Really nice split view of the cockpit and runway - like that

[@Daluke61]

A whole lot to like in this one for sure. Appreciate the views of your instrument panel in flight; would like to see more of that. Handling of that issue with ATC; epic! Two pro's all the way.

[@FixingWithPassion]

Glad it worked out, but still disturbing.

[@bradwest8493]

Ironically, you guys do a great job, and ATC who also typically does a great job, tries to come after you. I watch another gentleman that posts videos on here, that is an accident waiting to happen, and ATC and the FAA ignore him. OH well, keep doing a good job, enjoy your videos, thanks for taking the time to do them. Happy and safe flying.

[@BaronPilot]

I am the first one I defend controllers. But if they were gonna bust you for pilot deviation, (btw you never deviated as you never flew to a point you were not suppose to. So I'm confused about that) and the controller initially said they checked the tapes, then what happens to the controller who made a mistake and lied about it? Just saying if you're gonna enforce one side then shouldn't both sides be equally accountable? Especially if they lied and said they checked the tapes and confirmed? With that being said I would rather see neither side have fear of prosecution over a mistake that was caught before any deviation.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I couldn't have said it better myself

[@lrodpeterson3046]

I'm not sure I'd wave the "controller lied" flag just yet. From my experience (as a controller and as a QA specialist) I think they just hadn't checked far enough. I don't believe they'd checked the tower tapes at the point of the call. Still, there's no excuse for the (mis)handling of the event at the point they did.

[@dr.jeffpanozzo1180]

You and John were (and always are)nothing but professional which is why your video blog is so great. I bet they were reeling when you told they you had the flight recorded. I listened twice. You handled their error (of assumption) very professionally.

[@stephenraymond8414]

I deleted an earlier stronger comment. Lets just say they should take a close look at that person. Have to have trust and honesty in such a crucial endeaver... Does the Antarctic have a FSS ? 😎

[@philanderson1200]

I saw that golf course on final approach and immediately thought of Harrison Ford when he had issues with his plane years ago.

[@aimpointcx4444]

Knew i wasn't crazy when i spotted a familiar looking Gulfstream while i was on I95.

[@jeffcagle7021]

You guys have my dream job! I have been driving trucks for 23 years and I wish I would have become a pilot instead!

[@jakebeile]

Hi Shawn I love your videos Hey Jeff I used to drive truck for 19 years I was getting my pilots license while driving the truck and after six years of my initial training I got my first commercial job when I was driving truck and flying airplane by 10 years I was in a Jet and now 1000 in a beachjet 400 and now studying the videos for my G4 that our company picked up to manage.

[@KuostA]

@@jakebeile at what age did u start your initial pilot training? congrats to u!!!!! u made it happen! are u happy with the career? is it what u wanted from it?

[@coma13794]

Very interesting situation. Watching it the first time I found myself thinking, "ATC must think that a re-route has been issued, but it actually hasn't." This isn't entirely surprising, I once received two re-routes during taxi for a departure out of a non-towered NY airport (got a new routing each time I'd call for release). Only suggestion would be to be careful of the "us vs them" mentality. I totally get the instinct to become defensive since it's our ticket on the line, and you know with 100% certainty that you didn't do anything wrong. However, keep in mind that their actions were based on evidence (in the form of a marked strip) that you'd been issued the new clearance. So rather than saying "they were trying to pin this on us..." I would instead say, "they reasonably believed we had received a different clearance than the one we go, that's how we ended up in this mess." It should be easy to remain objective, calm and not at all defensive when you know you're 100% right, and you know you can pull the tapes, etc. I'm not saying you were brutal with them or overly defensive, I just thought it was worth pointing out that they were not doing it to cover their butts, or making unreasonable assumptions about what took place. Based on their normal procedures (strip marking), they had reason to believe that you'd been issued the new clearance (when, in fact, you absolutely had not been issued that revised clearance). Much of the ATC system still relies on humans marking/flagging things, and is prone to failure. It just happens rarely enough that it takes us by surprise when it does fail. Outstanding job, though! As someone who flies single pilot IFR with very little automation, it's incredibly educational to watch how efficiently you guys work as a crew. I see non-corporate GA pilots go for $100 hamburgers with other pilots and it's interesting to see how hard and inefficiently pilots work together when they're not TRAINED to work as a crew. Your company, and you guys clearly have it down, it was inspiring to watch and makes me want to delve more into CRM. It's also why I'm pretty strict when I fly with another pilot, we make it clear who is doing what and where the boundaries lie.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I completely agree with you. I really don't like the "us vs them" mentality either. I actually have many friends who are controllers across the country. I did get a bit defensive after the first phone call to the tower manager for one reason alone. The manager told me that whoever passed the report to him said that I was "on tape accepting an amended clearance" insinuating that the tapes had already been pulled and listened to. I obviously had not done that, so either that person was somehow mistaken, or they were telling a lie to cover their mistake. The tower manager was very polite on both phone calls, but the first one had more of a "you're guilty" tone to it. That was the only reason I had the defensiveness, but all is well that ends well I suppose.

[@bernardanderson7569]

Francine you have a wonderful time flying and I'm so glad you are back together with your crew

[@bs2502]

If I had to place a bet over who made the little SNAFU my money would, without hesitation, be backing you two guys as being in the all clear. Both of you are very professional and your both the nicest guys with it. Not forgetting the two lovely ladies (Francine and Jon's wife), we see from time to time making you guys an unbeatable team. Cheers.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

You got it! They forgot to give us the amended clearance...no biggie.

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life ever deal with a psychopath and/or compulsive liar? Many years ago I had to fire somebody who, with a straight face, told his team he had completed his portion of an important project. His briefing notes were blank pages! Not sure what he did for 3 solid weeks. Many aspects of your incident are creepy- especially the initial claim they had you on tape accepting/reading back a route change that never happened

[@skyking4581]

Hey Guys. I just found and subscribed to your channel. I am a Lear 60XR corporate pilot on medical leave for the past 6 months. I am hoping to get my medical back in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, I have been watching your vids. It keeps me motivated an in the game. Great crew management! Thanks ~ Sky KIng

[@kevinmadore1794]

I'm still trying to figure out what the alleged "pilot deviation" was. Right up until the moment the controller brought the issue up, you had been taking vectors from ATC and as you pointed out, at no time did you deviate from those instructions, or fly someplace you had not be cleared to fly. It was bad enough that somebody at ATC "mis-remembered" reading you a clearance on the ground, but it's unbelievable that some ATC Specialist then believed he had confirmed it after reviewing the tower tapes. My guess is that somebody was assigned to do that, but the review never really happened. At any rate, I think they owe you guys a formal apology for making you fly across the country wondering if your certificates were at risk, based on a knee-jerk reaction by people who get paid to pay attention to details. Neither of you needed the distraction of having to mentally review all of your actions over the course of a 6-hr trip. It is interesting how there will likely be no ramifications on their end, but if you had done something wrong, you might be looking at a suspension. Anyway, glad it got resolved quickly. You guys both do a great job. Love your videos. I'd fly with you guys anytime!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Thanks Kevin! The manager I spoke to on the phone at the end of the flight did apologize for what had happened. I suspect you are right that the review had not happened when they told me the first time that they heard me accept the clearance on tape.

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life perhaps they will go so far as to have somebody mimic your voice - or Wolfman Jacks next to you - and you will be in deep poo poo. The way our world is going, I no longer consider this Dystopian Fiction

[@AB-tj4zk]

@Corporate Pilot Life Controller's opinion on this: I have actually had the same scenario happen just during a different phase of flight for a crew. I called another facility on the landline to have them issue new routing to a plane they were giving me. They read back the routing correctly to me and then issued it to the flight. The pilot read it back wrong and the controller at the other facility did not catch the bad read back so the flight came to me flying a bad route. I advised the pilot of a POSSIBLE pilot dev and advised they call a number, not knowing at the time who was at fault. Being that we only have limited time to talk to the flight, sometimes it is just easiest to issue the Brasher Notification (possible pilot dev - here's a number) so that way you can more easily get in contact with all parties involved while it is being reviewed to figure out what went wrong. Being issued a Brasher should, by no means, be viewed as an immediate accusation or guilty verdict, and some pilots choose not to call at all since they are under no legal obligation to. When you called while in cruise, you probably were given the number to the operational manager's desk, so I would guess you spoke with them or a supervisor. What I think they meant by the guys in the tower confirming on the "radio tapes" is they called the tower on the recorded landlines and the tower said to them on the landline, based solely on the strip marking, that they issued it. I don't think they meant they had already reviewed the frequency recording yet and heard you acknowledge a clearance. Of course, my thought is based on not hearing the actual call but knowing the process. It would take some time and quite a few people at the center and tower to fully review everything and listen to the frequency recording from the time you got your PDC to the time you were switched to departure. Obviously, the tower never issued the routing and that was confirmed when they pulled the actual frequency recording. Glad they didn't drag their feet and had it sorted out to tell you once you landed!

[@kevinmadore1794]

"Brasher Notification." I love that it has a name.....like "Miranda Notification." I also love the phraseology...."Possible Pilot Deviation". It's not "Possible Operational Error", it's a "Possible PILOT Deviation." In other words, we think someone screwed up and we're focusing on YOUR actions. Sure, the handbooks and regulations may state that a fair and balanced investigation is being done, but it's just like dealing with the cops. All of the resources and the weight of the law are on the side of the system, not on the pilot. Dealing with all of that weight is a major uphill battle for an individual. So yeah, getting a "Brasher Notification" in the middle of a flight is a huge distraction, especially if you're in a single in turbulent IMC without a copilot or an autopilot. I understand the agency's (FAA) legal obligation to provide the warning, but there had damn well better be some solid evidence of a serious mistake or safety issue before that warning is issued. In this case, I just don't see it. All we have is an absent-minded local controller in a tower. I still fail to understand what sort of pilot deviation Shaun and Jon (I hope I have the correct spelling of their names) were suspected of having committed. They were taking radar vectors and were fully complying with the various sector controller's instructions. In that situation, it should make no difference what they had been previously issued for a clearance. When a controller tells you to "turn right", or "climb", you salute and execute.

[@AB-tj4zk]

I never argued that it wouldn't weigh on the pilot's mind. I understand why the pilot will feel as if all the focus is on them but I can't help them with that. I read/say the phraseology verbatim as I am legally required to do. I do actually like the idea of "Possible Operational Error" as the words signal better to the recipient the truth of the matter - the incident is being reviewed with no particular biased focus on either party. I'm not sure why you feel as though all of the resources and the weight of the law are on ATCs (the "system" as you put it) side. First things first, most controllers aren't out there intentionally looking to get any pilots violated with FSDO. We are specifically trained that we aren't the police of the sky and most don't want to be. Second, if you would like to come let my QA know that the "weight of the law" is on my side, that would be great because those are some nit-picky sons of a guns and if you ask many controllers, they would probably tell you they feel as if all the scrutiny is on them. So it goes both ways there. Let's take my personal experience as an example. As I said in my other comment, I was involved in an operational error, or deal as we call them, and advised my supervisor what happened. He got the information from me briefly and then, while I was still working the sector, went to look into it. A few minutes later, he came back and asked me if I got a correct readback. I did in fact get a correct readback but the simple fact of that question being asked proves they don't just believe the controller from the get go and investigate it as a pilot error from the start. Why does there need to be solid evidence of a serious mistake or safety issue before a pilot is told that an investigation is being done that involves them...again, involves them, not is focused on them, but involves them. As I already said, I fully agree that the wording of the notification could be better, but shouldn't the pilot also have a right to know as soon as possible? And the easiest way to get to the bottom of it all, is for all sides to give their story and then look at the totality of the facts/circumstances. Now, specific to this vlog, it's obvious what pilot deviation ATC thought Shaun and Jon might have committed. Based on stripmarking/what the controller remembered (or misremembered in this case), they thought they were issued a clearance for a new route and never loaded it and subsequently told ATC they wasn't their route. Thankfully, it didn't get to the point where ATC thinks you are flying one route and are protecting but then an unexpected turn was made. It was nipped in the bud because of how the vectors/direct to fix clearance played out. It had nothing to do with them not complying with any instructions prior to them saying the direct to fix clearance they were issued isn't a fix on their route. Might be easier to explain if you know exactly how flight plans are passed from facility to facility as an aircraft is handed off, but that's the gist of it.

[@mikeairbiscuit]

The SoCal controller who brought you down to 4000 is a grumpy dude. Been maybe 1 or 2 flights where I haven’t heard him be snippy with someone.

[@niceguy2171]

Yeah! The California flight..and Francine's back (we missed ya girl ;) Wow! it was weird enough when ATC acted surprised on your routing, but when you said they gave you a number, and were talking 'Pilot Deviation' that went to the Twilight Zone! It's 1 thing when ATC gets lost a bit..it happens, but to make it sound like you and Jon 'went rouge' and just started flying where you wanted, is another. Glad you have the paperwork, and have it in the PDC..and probably a good idea to make copies of that paperwork (which you would have wrote in an amended flight plan if given) when you hit the ground btw, no matter what the 2nd call said. Hope the time at the beach, and the rest of the trip went well after, but what a strange start.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Yeah...we kept copies of everything. It was weird, but all is good.

[@garyolafson8303]

Might be the controllers last day on the job. His head (controller's) wasn't fully on the job anyway. If I where rich, I'd hire your guys (+ Francine) to fly me around. Good job.

[@keemez]

....rouge? what does red/blush have to do with it?

[@niceguy2171]

Fast typing when people were bothering me, and nerve damage in my hand, is my excuse for the misspelling, honestly mr. spelling correcter, I meant 'rogue'

[@jrzeller1]

niceguy217 n

[@Jet-Pack]

One man's chop is another man's turbulence. Words to live by :D

[@plumbdog1964]

Sean and John are a great TEAM

[@jamesholt3232]

Great to see Francine again! Let`s see more of her!

[@jerrykorman7770]

At 18:45: Of course, one man's chop is another man's turbulence. Insert Jon's sinister chuckle

[@domineprinceps]

I like the camera view across the instrument panel from the side!

[@wkdravenna]

ATC has an important job. Hopefully all is squared and everything is good. Rock on Sean and John. and Francine also.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Yep...all is good.

[@jerrymullen9661]

Two great pilots! JOHN loved your socks 🧦😎

[@jerrykorman7770]

Jerry Mullen when CPL finally does offer swag, those trademarked Jon socks are sure to be a best seller. Especially if they are stenciled "vamonos!"

[@jerrymullen9661]

Sooooo true!!

[@Bond-fx7si]

Very well documented video…. Good watch and great flying.

[@TCB-1]

Really like the new view from the yoke on roll out and departure!

[@heliophil6863]

Very cool I used to work at the north end of the airport on the west side, I was a pilot for LAFD one of there helicopter pilots for 25 years, wish I could of meet you all.

[@BoB4jjjjs]

Yeap, everyone make mistakes, it is just admitting to it that is the hard bit. But you had the info to back yourself up. Safe flying guys. Hope this sort of thing does not happen to often! Nice video.

[@raymondhouser3564]

Again sweet job on your flight. Like the different point of view can see Jon across from you. It's good you keep hard copies aswell. c.y.a.

[@Saguanay]

Love that break thru of the clouds on the climb and a bit of surfing. Subbed.

[@GPSjammer]

First thing to remember is that a Brasher warning ("possible pilot deviation"/phone number) is *not* an accusation. It is merely ATC being stewards of the NAS by trying to figure out what went wrong in the system. Talking with the pilots is 50% of the story and crucial to figuring out what went wrong so that the FAA can mitigate that kind of risk/error in the future. They can't just let things like that go without knowing why it happened and trying to fix it.

[@GPSjammer]

Always remember that the FAA/ATC gains nothing by accusing pilots of things. They only want to mitigate risk in the NAS by analyzing things when they go differently than expected.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I understand that, and fully agree with it as well. But in the first phone call I made, there was a definite accusation made as well as supposed proof of it. The second phone call was very different from the first...

[@GPSjammer]

I'd call that bad management on the part of the first person you spoke with, then. I'm sorry to hear that.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I think it was more bad information being given to that person from the controller involved, but who knows

[@boatlover1875]

Was shocked to see the mention of a pilot deviation in the title, particularly the way you guys roll. Glad it wasn't on you! Great video.

[@steveschrader7381]

Great video guys! Enjoy watching you do your thing. Interesting correspondence with the ATC screw up. Keep them coming!

[@richardvarner2802]

WOW!!! That was one crazy flight. ATC really screwed it up, didn’t they, Shaun? But, at least, they admitted their mistake, and you guys were gracious enough to accept their apology. But, you had all you needed to back up your claim that they made the mistake, regarding the flight plan they erroneously gave you. So I don’t think they had much choice, since you had all that flight plan info uploaded to the FMS. Kudos to you guys. Great flight, and great landing, Jon. Thanks for sharing. Happy Flying, and safe landings.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Yes indeed! Thank you!

[@adamdonmez879]

The cloud shots never get old!

[@2diamonddragon]

Great job! Just another reason to have the camera going on some of your flights. Love the banter as well, Professionally casual.

[@scottytibbsii9437]

Class act by the Presidential 69 Crew with regards to the clearance issue! Does this type of clearance issue happen to you guys often? Thanks for sharing Shuan, John and Ms. Francine!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Thanks Scotty! This doesn't happen very often, but we have to be prepared for when it does...

[@FFlyDDrum1]

Great variety in this video. Controversy, good views, some choppy air, etc. I continue to enjoy your videos. Nice

[@judgej.8816]

FFlyDDrum1 and a chicken hawk!

[@davidcorbett8125]

A interesting video both from the flying content and how ATC tried to issue you with a violation which turned out to be their mistake

[@billr8667]

Great video quality. Thanks for posting. Instrument pilot in training here. The more comm the better.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Excellent! Let us know how the training goes!

[@IrishDave]

That landing was so smooth!

[@rkspdx]

Great video as usual! Interesting how ATC operates when they screw up!

[@graysono]

I've put an old flying buddy onto your channel. He was an ex airline jockey who then flew Gulfstream's GIV-SP for many years in NZ then managed a fleet in the Middle East - Corporate Pilot Life Kiwi Style! He told me about the GIV's autopilot in turbulence keeping things smooth and comfortable down the back and how ahead of its time it was. Cat D approaches when only the 747 did them! And going high - really high! - FL450. He said this about your vids; 'Those boys on those videos look like they have the tiger moderately tamed, as it’s an aircraft that takes time to get to know and, just as you get comfortable, it can even bite the experienced ones in the ass! They seem to be having fun.' You got fans here in Middle Earth - you need to fly down and see us!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

That's awesome! Thank you! We are definitely at a point that we feel comfortable and confident in the G-IV, but as your friend said, it will still bite you if you don't watch out!

[@graysono]

Corporate Pilot Life Get a charter down under and come see us in Middle Earth!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

You have no idea how badly I want that to happen

[@graysono]

Corporate Pilot Life Wud be an amazing flight! Lot of water the Pacific ocean has but when u get here!

[@jerrykorman7770]

(Yawn) Monday morning already. Good job on the video! The PDC stored in the FMS, and your hobby of recording flights, may have saved you a huge hassle. “One mans chop is another mans turbulence” too funny.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

indeed...

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life I suppose this incident will reaffirm the old adage “cover your a**”. I do a lot of consulting/contracting and document EVERYTHING. I would say 99 times out of 100, I just make busywork for myself. However that 1 time out of 100 ....

[@jerrykorman7770]

Corporate Pilot Life I’ve also been audited 4 times over the past 10 years. When I show up with a large folio, all receipts organized by category *and* by month, things go swimmingly. I even have an impressive collection of time-stamped iPhone photos of my vehicle odometer. Some folks fear an audit. I give a sinister chuckle and say “bring it on”. CYA folks. C Y A

[@brad_Ca]

That whole flight plan mess was nuts, glad you all got it sorted out favorably for you guys. 😲👍

[@vincemck2002]

Nice to have evidence to back up your side of the story.....I reckon someone in ATC got a caning for not advising flight plan change after logging it. However....all's well that ends well and mistakes happen on both sides.....the ATC man shouldn't be sacked....just advised on correct procedure....they are too hard to get and train.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I agree completely. We all make mistakes, lets just learn from them so they don't repeat

[@athiest4you]

Great multiple camera angles

[@stevebond727200]

You two are class acts. Another reason you deserve to fly the best. I'd love to see Van Nuys. Home of the great Clay Lacy Lots of corporate and private iron there. When I was a student pilot 48 years ago, I did a solo flight from Reid Hillview, .ca. to San Jose, .ca. very little distance. I didn't wait for a clearance and just worked my way into the traffic pattern for 30R. Got a radio call after landing that I needed to call tower immediately! I was shaking! After a brief chew out I was not given any penalty. The Good old days back in about 1974. I don't remember all the details on why I did it. I know it was overcast and light rain. Stupid nonetheless. Now you guys are monitored with a fine-toothed electronic comb. Your professionalism and crew coordination is exemplary. Thank you for your examples and letting many of us enjoy the ride!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

WOW! Couldn't get away with that one these days. Van Nuys is a really cool place...can't wait to get back out there.

[@MrLikeke]

Rod Machado learned at Reid Hillview, Amelia Reid was his CFI.

[@charlesfinley2350]

Well done guys, always gets your BP up a bit when you get a phone number and they use that ugly phrase of PD. And as it happens more often than not, it wasn’t a PD it was an ATC mistake. Enjoy and may all your flights be boring till ya hit the Hotel.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Well said Glen

[@SuperStraffe]

Great video. Edited very well. I look forward to watching your other videos.

[@rikright960]

Great video, I love watching them. And ATC does make mistakes, the're only human too. But your professionalism trumped thier error , great job and thanks for bringing us along.

[@ronaldromuno6383]

The process of informing a pilot of a "Possible" deviation is called the Brasher Warning. ATC is required to give it to pilots if there's a possible deviation even before all the facts are known so that if it is in fact a deviation, the pilot's been notified in a timely manner. It sometimes takes a while for all the audio, radar data and documents to be reviewed. In addition, at least one Regional FAA rep. and FSDO personnel review it so even if the primary facility makes a mistake, others will correct it. Despite the unfortunate belief to the contrary, controllers and/or the FAA are not looking to "Pin" their mistakes on pilots, nor could they ever get away with it if they were. All the supporting data (Audio, Radar, Documents) for a Pilot Deviation is kept for at least 2 1/2 years; pilots and their attorneys have full access to it. Love the videos guys.

[@williegillie5712]

Ronald Romuno perhaps the Brasher warning should be given to both the pilot and ATC. That way it's not pinned just on the pilot. Controllers make mistakes too as we have just witnessed in this video.

[@AB-tj4zk]

@Willie Gillie I mean, controllers are aware though. If a controller issues a pilot a brasher warning, that basically ensures the tapes/radar/etc. is gonna be reviewed. So yes, the controller knows they could be the one who was wrong as proven by the tapes/radar/etc. It's not pinning anything on anyone. There is a reason the warning specifically says "POSSIBLE" pilot deviation. The easiest way to resolve a situation like this is to talk to all parties involved, get everyone's side of the story, and review all data. If the pilot has now landed on the other side of the country, it makes it much harder to talk to the them and hear their side. That's why the warning is issued to the pilot right then and there and a phone number is given so the pilot can choose to call if they wish, being that they are under no legal obligation to call. Again, all it essentially is is a way for ATC to let the pilot know, "hey, something went wrong...its gonna be looked at...we'd like you to call and let us know what happened from your side."

[@williegillie5712]

AB 123 You saw the effect of this brasher warning. Putting someone who did nothing wrong on the hot seat. ATC shouldn't think they are above correction. People make mistakes. They need to learn how to own up to their mistakes. Not because

[@MrLikeke]

Ronald Romuno, finally a sensible comment. Good job. Reading through the comments I see many who seem to want to burn the controller. I think there is more to the story and not necessarily anything the flight crew are privy to. Controllers handle a lot of aircraft, have good and bad days just like the rest of us. Maybe he mixed up aircraft and was 'sure' he did issue the amended clearance. That doesn't mean he meant to intentionally cause grief to the pilots to avoid the consequences as some here seem to think. I wonder how many of such commentors fly or if they do, they leave the traffic pattern or fly across regions. Honestly, sheesh.

[@evanmurashko7585]

This is so cool to see! I moved out of state but I used to live 10 mins from Van Nuys airport. In fact, I'm flying into Burbank to visit this Friday. The golf course you guys flew over on final, my best friend works there.

[@CorporatePilotLife]

Very cool! I love going out there.

[@evanmurashko7585]

I hope you enjoyed your time at the beach!

[@CorporatePilotLife]

It was freaking cold!!

[@kerryharper349]

One of my favorites.... thank you for taking the time to share!

[@jamescoker9545]

Enjoyed the flight! Francine gotta keep you guys on course!

[@Newzchspy]

Shaun, you just knew I'd be chiming in!! Welcome back Francine!! Now, where's she been? Cheating on another bird?

[@CorporatePilotLife]

I knew you would be the one to notice...she was on other planes for a short while.

[@Newzchspy]

Corporate Pilot Life Welcome back @Francine !! Sounds like you've been doing some of your own deviating.