Why You Cant Convert Your "Pro-Choice" Friends /w Gerry Crete

[@harrietruffy5205]

I’ve been an OB/gyn for 20 + years. It’s hard to get past the vitriol for one fundamental reason: Abortion either breaks a woman or it hardens her. I’ve not seen much in between. Those women out there screaming for abortion are some of the hardest women out there. We need to get to the next phase now and I believe that is the simple question: Why would you want an abortion? It’s an open ended question that hopefully will lead to conversation. Almost always the perceived need for abortion is based on fear; fear leads to wanting to control, and wanting total control makes us brittle and closes us off from truth.. No matter whether ones belief system is rooted in religion, science, or both, there is nothing more unnatural than sucking a baby out of uterus, and women kid themselves if they believe it won’t affect them for the rest of their lives- abortion will break you or it will harden you. Nature itself guarantees this.

[@lahair5751]

100% agree. My abortion was the worst decision ever. I didn't want to do it but felt I had to because I had 2 kids and was the primary earner and then lost my job. There were several other big reasons but none of the reasons soothed me after I saw a gummy bear sized baby on my wad of tissue. And everyone who told me it was "my choice" was no where to be found for my emotional aftermath. I was told to get over it. Don't think about it. Move on. Yet, I still struggle with it. I'm so happy that some women will be saved by this overturning from making a mistake they can't take back. I worry for the transgender people fighting nature today. Mother nature always wins. And the storms these people are inviting will leave many casualties in their wake.

[@johnfisher247]

Because they are killing humans like themselves. That is pretty twisted.

[@shannonrouston3298]

This is the most insightful comment. Thank you so much for sharing this, Harriet!!

[@jimreilly917]

That’s absolutely true based on the women I know who’ve had abortions, or even advocates abortion.

[@jimreilly917]

@@lahair5751 I’m hoping you reconciled with God. And pray you find peace. Abortion is horrible. The abandonment of women after is almost as horrible. I can’t even imagine…

[@jerroldwhite2741]

It is a misnomer to call them pro choice. They are pro abortion, why else would they be attacking pregnancy centers that help people that choose life

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

100%

[@julianmarsh1378]

A lot of the violence over the years has come from the pro birth crowd....

[@SeaChellesShore]

Correct - They are of a One-Choice agenda.

[@travissharon1536]

We can not see people's hearts! I was pro-choice, I've been saved, if you don't witness to everyone, you are not following Biblical instruction. edit: The title of this video is misleading. They don't seem to claim that pro-choice people can't be saved.

[@modestproposal9114]

This is projection of the highest order. "Pro lifers" aren't prolife you are forced birthers. You aren't for the life of actual sentient women and girls because you would force them to suffer and die.

[@Totustuus822]

I left FB and stopped talking to 95% of my Leftist friends. I was worried that some of them might try SWATTING my home if I didn't go under the radar. I had a huge following online because I used to do costume design and modeling before my reversion to Catholicism. I was just very shocked at the way they viewed me and some of them had even posted articles advocating for taking children away from people who didn't agree with them politically. Wanting to kill Trump supporters, etc. It was chilling and creepy to see their transformation during the Trump years. It was like someone literally cut a string and separated them from reality. It was truly deranged. I pray for them because I think about the grace God had to pour into me for my own conversion and I have nothing but humility and gratitude to God for that. I didn't deserve that kind of grace for the life I was living or the things I'd done. So I look at my old friends with empathy for how lost they are now. All that said, I do think some of them are trapped in a delusion of victimhood and have found a purpose and identity in it. They're very protective of the delusion they're in. There were times dealing with them that is was like talking to a living breathing emotion. They weren't looking for logic, but an emotional high they were used to.

[@cscates3598]

That was a powerful testimony. Praise God. I left FB, Twitter, everything. Stopped watching the news, and I feel so much better. But I’ve never really had liberal friends, so well done for standing up and walking away from your former life!

[@edwardo737]

It’s all part of their programming. Intentional. Very difficult to break through. I pray for miracles and keep searching for new, more effective approaches.

[@ABock4]

This is very profound. Thank you for sharing. I’ve had the experience of watching friends/classmates buy into the lies about abortion recently on social media after Roe was overturned. I’ve unfollowed a few people, but others I haven’t. Overall, it’s difficult to see people that you know and care about get swept up in all of this, all while you know the truth and ultimately you know that they’re on the wrong side. A side that endangers their souls. All I can think to do is pray for them. It’s disappointing and sad at times, but it helps to know that there are others who have had similar experiences.

[@brendanflynn5004]

God bless you for having the strength to follow God’s call. Keep praying for your lost friends. Nothing is impossible with God.

[@ghosttheprogram6973]

It's truly the medias fault It was used as a weapon to brainwash these people And they usually have no sense of community like the church might offer besides those who are similarly brainwashed

[@my600_lblife]

I’m a Protestant but I’ve been watching a lot of your videos and loving the discussions.

[@hunterbidensaidslesion1356]

I don't really have any religion. I come here for discussions like this.

[@lauraingeorgia5052]

If you start studying church history (real church history, not revisionist,) you will become Catholic. I can't even describe the joy in discovery of this amazing, indescribably incredible Faith!

[@AdvocateSpirit]

Me too! I enjoy these discussions. I'm also studying church history but I don't expect any shifting around. Its all good learning though.

[@dylan3456]

@@lauraingeorgia5052 Nonsense.

[@davidrojas6457]

@@fernandez3841 There are reverent Novus Ordo communities.

[@jimd4201]

It is easy to fool someone. It is very difficult to convince him he has been fooled.

[@pamelanovelli1239]

love this ;)

[@jimd4201]

@@christianshaw9102 I thought that too but couldn't find a reference

[@highroller-jq3ix]

+Jim D Yup, hence religion.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@christianshaw9102 How so? That's just nonsensical "same-to-you-but-more-of-it-nyah!" How is the rejection of a claim for want of evidence and rational support the same as religious belief or irrational conviction?

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@jimd4201 And hilariously, Twain was a ferocious critic of religious fundies.

[@chloewilson9898]

Totally agree that people are generally not aware of the principles and philosophy that underlie the positions they take. I used to be a pro-choice Protestant and when I was fed the spiritual meat of the theology of the body specifically among other things, I completely changed because by grace I realized the majority of what I believed had no bedrock whatsoever. I'm being confirmed in the Catholic church this coming Sunday with my husband and my baby daughter will be baptized! Praise God!

[@marialuisa4227]

Praise God

[@courtneye4789]

Congratulations on your conversion, God bless your family!!

[@christophercormier8834]

That is an incredible personal journey! God bless and thanks be to God!

[@roflorida1]

So happy for you! The peace is in the understanding. I hope more can detect the veil and lift it from over their eyes. God bless you.

[@robinbrown328]

So happy for you and your family!! Welcome to the one true faith!

[@z.s.r.h]

i was pro choice in high school bc social pressure and i literally cry over the fact that i ever was knowing what i know now. the "scales" falling off my eyes and having kids myself. how anyone who has had children can possibly be pro-abortion rattles me

[@ivorybow]

When I truly understood the horror of abortion, was when I forced myself to read about the various procedures employed to kill those babies. They are so nightmarish I wouldn't even describe them here and I am haunted. One has to have a complete lack of empathy, be totally ignorant, partly or fully narcissistic, even sociopathic, to not be utterly horrified. Incidentally, I was watching C-SPAN when a (unknown) Congressman wept while he tried to introduce a bill mandating pain medicine be given to babies before they are killed. On the side, Pelosi was talking and laughing with the woman next to her. When he was done, she stood up and cavalierly said she did not agree because "it interferes with the rights of the mother. " And then she comes to work on Ash Wednesday sporting her cross of ashes. It's not being judgemental when you recognize a viper going for your leg.

[@cbtam4333]

Amen. Pro-choice that chops up a baby into pieces is ghoulish, barbaric, inhumane and psychopathic. Pure evil.

[@paytonsmith8358]

The fetus literally doesn't have the capacity to remember pain, and over 90% of abortions are employed by taking a pill that results in a heavy flow-like period. It is indistinguishable from a miscarriage.

[@carolineweaver7923]

My personal experience with abortion resulted after high pressure from others to abort amidst a narrative that I would be a failure if I had the baby. This was followed by an intensely dark 3 years of depression, suicidality, and regret. I now minister to people who are dying. Many women report similar experiences and fear damnation for aborting their children. Through God’s grace I am able to use my experience of forgiveness to help them find their way to peace. I believe such stories deserve more discussion. To what you are saying in the video, today CNN published a “study” conducted by Advancing New Standards of Reproductive Health (there’s a link to find out that part) claiming that experts agree with their findings that only 1% of women who’ve had abortion experience regret, depression and suicidality, while those who were unable to obtain an abortion were more likely to live in poverty, never achieve dreams, and have low-performing children. For good measure, the article states that the study shows the 1% who experience post-abortion distress likely had pre-existing mental health disorders anyway. Thus the conversation is over before it even begins, with legitimate concerns dismissed as crazy talk. I felt gaslit in reading the story. I certainly question the ability of both CNN and the purveyors of the study to be able to objectively create an unbiased research tool or interpret findings without extreme prejudice. Sad.

[@AetheriusLamia]

“Advancing New Standards of Reproductive Health” - clearly no agenda here!

[@SamuelDiaz21]

I believe it was Jordan Peterson who said that the two biggest lies told to woman today are 1. The most important thing to happen in your life is getting your career. And 2. The most important thing in your life IS your career. So when women have this drilled into them from a young age, having a child unexpectedly that disrupts you on your path to a career is the WORST possible thing that can happen, and you might as well count your life as over. So what do you do to salvage your life and not have all of your friends think of you as nothing but a failure? Easy. You have an abortion. Problem solved, at least in their eyes. When we find our identity in Christ we then understand that having simply a job or career does not matter in only that you do it to honor, praise, glorify, and bless His name. Our real purpose in life is found in him, not what society says we ought to do.

[@condelevante4]

I just wanted to say God Bless America for reversing Roe v Wade. I had problems with American foreign policy in previous occasions, but what has happened here is something special. For the first time YOU have reversed the relentless progressive drive that started 80 years ago. It’s honestly like a Stalingrad or Battle of Britain moment. No it’s Not the end. Nor even the beginning of the end but it is the END of the beginning. That’s amazing.

[@jaqian]

@Big Dick Black Yet the demonised Jews and made them less than people and that is what abortionists have done with the unborn baby.

[@condelevante4]

@Big Dick Black The abortion law in Nazi German was for “aryan” women. The regime was quite happy to encourage abortions among other races.

[@thomasvonaquin2381]

The Soviet Union was the first state to legalise abortion under every circumstances.

[@condelevante4]

@Big Dick Black the first regime to legalize abortion in Poland were the Nazis. Abortion was and is promoted among the downtrodden. Anyone who does not produce nice blonde aryan children should be aborted - is that what you mean ?

[@condelevante4]

@@thomasvonaquin2381 I saw online statistics for the number of abortions taking place each in the USSR and the numbers were astounding - something like 3-4 million every year. I think it worked out at 300million people. It’s historically important too. In 1913 Russia under the czar was actually one of the fastest growing economies in the world. The predictions were that by the 1950s Russias population would be close on 500 million and it, not the US would be the world financial and economic dynamo. That year the Russians built the worlds first passenger plane. Then with the terrible war they fell into the hands of the vile Bolsheviks, who turned it into a slave state and murdered millions. One of the first things they did was legalize abortion. They also asked scientists to see if they could breed man with a chimp- probably to prove there was no soul. Demonic. Russia has never recovered. As we can see from today.

[@Jay_in_Japan]

I'm an atheist but I love your videos! This one has a lot of great points, especially the point about post-modernism and the Truth. Used to be "pro-choice" myself until a couple of years ago. When I _really_ started to think about it and consider the different sides, I became an ardent pro-lifer! Which is a strange thing to be when you're also an atheist. As you can imagine, most atheists and agnostics are liberal, and "pro-choice". So I find myself in something of a double-minority... amongst fellow atheists, _and_ amongst fellow pro-lifers. Since there are relatively few irreligious pro-lifers.

[@harvey364]

To be honest, I don't see why religion or lack of religion has anything to do with the abortion debate. Science clearly tells us that a fetus is living, and that it is human. Thus, abortion is a form of killing the innocent. Atheists seem to be against bank robbery, yet no one mentions religion in that case. So why the big deal with abortion? Call it what it is: murder. Then everyone should be against it.

[@Jay_in_Japan]

@@harvey364 Precisely. And far too many pro-deathers assume that the pro-life position is only being made on religious arguments. Which is laughably ridiculous! If only they actually cared about the science.

[@JP2GiannaT]

There's a group called Secular Pro-life you might like.

[@ivorybow]

If one is an atheist, and believes this physical life is all there is, then how on earth would an atheist justify cutting it off in the womb? To an atheist, the physical life must seem exceedingly precious.

[@nezakorenjak1865]

But it is tough for atheists. Okay, science tells you that life begins at conception, but science doesn't tell you what is RIGHT to do with that life. You can only look at it pragmatically, for example, if we kill too many babies, there will be less people in the world, and we wouldn't want that, because _________. If you truly believe in morality, at some point you ask yourself: WHO imposed this morality on us? Morality is not just a social convention, it is a deep sense of what we OUGHT to be doing. It's also not evolutionary, because often times it is contrary to propagation of species (for example giving up promiscuity, or giving your life for another). I'm very happy that you're a pro-life atheist, because pro-life is the most logically consistent position. But its premises still suppose a higher meaning to life, a law that binds us all. An absolute moral truth. If we reject that truth (even though it is true), than pro-abortion makes sense. But in this scenario it also makes sense that I can harm anyone I like in any way I like and it's not wrong. It may be illegal, it may cause suffering, but it won't be wrong. You see where I'm going? This kind of thinking (if logically consistent) is not only a slippery slope, it's downright free fall towards (literal) hell. (Of course, pro-abortion advocats typically don't believe all of this, which is why they're logically inconsistent and wrong.)

[@redheadmotherof6]

Matt, I think you should do a show about how pro lifers are responding. Our parish in Scranton (STM) is raising funds to buy an apartment building on block in order to establish a Crisis Pregnancy Center. Our first fundraiser was this past Sunday with Dr. Monique Ruberu as a speaker. She is a Pro-life napro OBGYN and she has a beautiful conversion story. God's timing was beautiful because this event was planned for a while and occurred 2 days after the ruling. If you want to plug our cause that would be great! Your neighbors from CFL last year whose Franciscan student (Angelina) likes to use an Australian accent when she runs into you on campus.

[@ck337]

She is wonderful ! I am friends with her on FB!

[@queent3343]

Maybe you should do a show where pro lifers explain how the baby is supported after it's born. Why it's OK that women go on the dole with a baby they never intended to have? Why are poor states being the most restrictive and the least supportive? Why don't they explain that women will now no longer be able to be educated to the degree they want or have high paying jobs. It is no surprise that it's taken 40 years for women to get in the C-suite. How about explaining how this is going to happen when women can't control when they have a family?

[@JP2GiannaT]

What's the parish name?

[@Robertj64]

What you should really do is put your money where your mouth is. We need to tax right across the board for unwanted pregnancy tax. Every tax payer should pay for this since everyone should be fighting for the fetus. This money should not be relied on by the will of a few good-doers but ENSURED that money will be promised and fulfilled.

[@MS-xi7zg]

One way to win this cultural war is to make sure that we, as Catholics (Christians in general) do more to aid and support the women/families who find themselves in unwanted pregnancies. We have to provide real alternatives to abortion and act with utmost compassion for both the children and their mothers. This is not only the Christian thing to do, it is the most effective way to win over the hearts and minds of the opposition.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

True, and that's why left-wing terrorists like ANTIFA or Jane's Revenge or Ruth Sent Us are committing vandalism against Pregnancy Care Centers. We Christians have to pray & fast. And if the authorities won't protect & serve & enforce laws, well, then. we Christians do have the God-given universal right of self-defense.

[@gingertankersley2997]

I know that most crisis pregnancy centers and organizations that provide care, help, material needs for single moms are Christian based. We can do more, I know.

[@tobiasdavidson3161]

Quite right. I recently visited the last remaining Sister of the order of St Margaret in Aberdeen. She had been a midwife and looked after pregnant teenagers and their children. One orphan in her charge said she owes everything to her. The Sister’s experience of modern hospitals - she’s 96 - was that nurses no longer seem to exhibit care or compassion.

[@GracieDontPlayDat]

Or churches could actually teach the Bible. Flee from sexual immorality, and love your wife like your own body. Politicians and Entertainment do not take the narrow gate, but the church is mandated by God to.

[@karikling6751]

@@gingertankersley2997 That's not enough. You have to support social safety nets and mandatory paid parental leave, nothing less.

[@josephabhishekjoshy4865]

One week ago, I've had a debate over abortion with my friend. She says she's personally pro life but never suggest anyone else from stopping doing abortion. We fighted a lot with words..and finally she decided to end our friendship due my stances on abortion.

[@marykellerzacks9110]

Your friend was no true friend. Can’t have your cake and eat it too. Not judging your former friend she is a hypocrite. Murder is murder. You will be blessed for speaking the truth. Many Blessings to you.

[@josephabhishekjoshy4865]

@@marykellerzacks9110 Thankyou so much Mary... God bless you.

[@Lordpraisethe]

"If I dont want it, it doesnt exist" that's powerful

[@JW_______]

I've realized through conversations with pro-abortion folks the last few weeks that many in that camp are not open to reasoned argument or good faith discussion. They ultimately resort to strong-form subjectivism to say how dare I try to "force" my opinion on other people. They refuse to truly engage with my arguments, yet they claim the authority to say that it's just an opinion.

[@Rojofro]

Sure, but you are doing the same thing by saying pro abortion instead of pro choice. Also, what are your arguments and how have you been engaging?

[@annmarieblanc6363]

@@Rojofro that is a very interesting question. How would YOU engage a pro "choice" proponent? Andy NOT Annmarie!

[@Rojofro]

@@annmarieblanc6363 probably something like Hi, my names Josh, what makes you believe the way you do and what could convince you otherwise.

[@JW_______]

@@Rojofro well, no. Pro-abortion is more neutral than Pro-Choice, which is a catch phrase. But I understand - not everyone who wants abortion to be legal would say they're "for" abortion. I'm willing to compromise and say "pro-abortion-choice". But clearly there are other choices an individual might make that they do not think should be legal, so pro-choice is a misleading descripter that disguises the fact that the choice they really care about is the abortion choice. But if the person I'm talking to is willing to say pro-life (instead of "forced-birther") then I'd be willing to say "pro-choice."

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

I got called a white, male oppressor. LOL. I pointed out that she exists because her father was an unplanned pregnancy and she should talk to her grandmother if she wanted to hear from experience. She claimed her GM is uneducated. She claimed I was uneducated. I pointed out that I have a Master's degree and she hasn't finished her bachelor's. It was like playing keep away with a child.

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

Every atrocity begins by dehumanizing the victim. Abortion is no different.

[@jasonmarcum9964]

Every atrocity? Are you sure about that? I think you're exaggerating a bit there.

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

@@jasonmarcum9964 Name one that doesn't.

[@jasonmarcum9964]

@@charlesmuhmanson3928 mass shootings.

[@christopherlin4706]

Abortion dehumanizes the mother more

[@jasonmarcum9964]

@@christopherlin4706 only to anti abortionists and religious fanatics.

[@michaelnielsen9962]

Been busy on FB, thanks for this. Matt you made a great point. I used hyperbole to make my point to a pro-abortion friend and he reversed it on me, accusing me of advocating for another evil. Big mistake, tell them the exact point you are trying to make in truth and charity. Lesson learned.

[@alexanderbrown2717]

♥️Know you have eternal life ♥️ 1 John 5 KJV 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. Ephesians 1 KJV 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1 Corinthians 15 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Romans 3 KJV 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[@janpetsch620]

Great discussion. What stuck with me the most…people don’t understand the philosophic underpinning of their believes. So very true particularly in today’s world. Most of my life I have pursued just that…why I believe what I believe. I am a 69 year old woman was raised Catholic, and liberal. I spent most of my adult life as a liberal, pro choice person. Such soul searching for why I believe as I do has changed my viewpoint on many things. I am now a conservative, life affirming Catholic. That said the majority of people I encounter don’t even understand what you mean by “philosophical underpinning”

[@gingertankersley2997]

It would be interesting to hear what your previous, liberal views were and why. Was it anti rich and big business?

[@tsf637]

I think the Hansel and Gretel analogy and Nancy Pelosi being the witch was spot on!

[@barneyleseven2854]

You believe Nancy P actually consumes infants, what a rube. I really hope most faithful Christians are more intelligent then this.

[@hariman7727]

It also works with Joe Biden.

[@Mel-tc7ku]

I stopped putting my opinion on FB cause I was getting stalked and attacked with hate. They scared me. Thought they might attack my family. It’s really sad.

[@OscyJack-]

So is not understanding that by speaking to them where your opinion isn't wanted or agreed with.

[@russellcollier8320]

Blimey, oscykack! Isn't that what used to be called debate? Do you really want to live in a world without it? If so, good luck and God bless, my friend.

[@bcalvert321]

@@russellcollier8320 This person is not a Christian and is all for abortion. He, she, has no truth in her, him.

[@Mel-tc7ku]

@@russellcollier8320 They don’t want to debate- they want to vomit hatred over me. If it’s just me then fine but I have my kids pictures up. Good for those who feel safe and have people willing to debate.

[@Mel-tc7ku]

@@mike-cc3dd 😂

[@MrRight-fj4yi]

People basically fall into two camps. Those that submit to God Almighty and those who don't. Those that do submit to God also believe in truth and the law. To those that don't submit to God, truth is relative (hence the "end justifies the means" mentality) and law is only applied when it benefits them.

[@johnyang1420]

Absolutely true!!!!

[@thebacons5943]

Jesus talked about a lot of people, but never the “unborn.” Yet… they are the only group many Christians care to fight for, because they’re convenient and fictional

[@othername6345]

Unless you're an atheist who believes we're just "wet robots", I cannot understand why you wouldn't be pro-life. When did it become socially acceptable to say its okay for a mother to kill her child? How did we get to the point that people are willing to say this out loud, in public, with no shame?

[@davedavis3746]

I think that they explained it in the video, they attack the language and call the unborn child a foetus thereby robbing the baby of its personhood.

[@jaqian]

There is a push to take away our humanity, many now say that there is no difference between humans and animals which opens up that anything is acceptable

[@Bork98]

Talk to any pro-abortion person. The majority will never acknowledge the child. You can ask them directly about the child and they will turn it to be about women's rights. They cannot acknowledge the child, otherwise their whole view collapses.

[@billburtis8616]

They believe it is not a child and nothing dies. They have deluded themselves.

[@itsgettingold]

@@wambaofivanhoe9307 Since human history began, that is what people have done. Horrible, terrible things happen to us - none of these terrible things confer the right to commit murder. The ONLY reason that it became acceptable in the last 3 minutes of history is that the murder victim is always completely silent, and has no-one to defend him or her. The mother and the doctor can then pretend that the child they just killed isn't a human being. A developing child in the uterus is no less human than a developing child that has been born. A daughter who is impregnated as the victim of incest doesn't have the right to kill the child because she has been victimized herself. One criminal and brutal act of power cannot justifiably result in another criminal, brutal act of power.

[@derickrisner2601]

"Virtue is nothing than voluntary obedience to TRUTH." - Webster Dictionary 1828

[@AlexHernandez-ee5hd]

Since the bible is bullshit, it's a rather moot point.

[@colleen.f.s]

“They see themselves as heroes “ is a very important perspective.

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

I wish it were the law that a woman had to have and watch her ultrasound before getting an abortion. In the interest of full medical knowledge, this should be the law. Ultrasounds save babies, because most women will change their mind.

[@Heinz57ish]

i totally agree. It happened to me. I was forced to have an abortion but had a dating scan. As soon as I saw that little heart beating it was over. There was no way I was going through it. My baby is 18 now and I don't regret it for a second.

[@lilianamunoz3003]

I wish they would have let me see the ultrasound but I wasn’t strong enough to ask. It just occurred to me if it was any other x-ray they would have shown me in detail.

[@Heinz57ish]

@@lilianamunoz3003 I'm so sorry. We all have weak moments in life - I've had many. Were you young? I was older (38) with two children already but it was still difficult speaking up. I'd had so much pressure from my partner and the midwives to not have her but at the dating appointment they told me to look away. I couldn't help but look and the rest is history.

[@GracieDontPlayDat]

Good idea; there are some state bills. Federal bill died in a committee discussion. Most bills die in committee because people don’t organize, call, and email until we overload the switchboard like our grandparents used to do before they were numbed by Taco Bell and weed.

[@truthinlovemama]

I couldn’t look when I had a dating scan before my abortion 14 years ago. If I had looked, I couldn’t have gone through with it. I did not have ultrasounds with my next two children and am now pregnant again. I did get an ultrasound a few weeks ago and had a total breakdown looking at the screen. Thank goodness the woman doing the scan was so compassionate, really an angel for me that day. I wish I had been strong enough to look at the screen years ago and have my baby, even if it meant going it alone. Biggest regret of my life. I thank God for His forgiveness, His continued healing I didn’t know could go deeper even now, and for the children I have now who I don’t deserve. Jesus is my redeemer.

[@Beyondabsence]

I felt relieved with the decision but very sad to witness the negative and hateful reaction of co-workers and acquaintances. It's disturbing to see good fellow human beings so deluded about the issue.

[@christopherw6309]

Yeah it's kind of depressing to see people so angry about it.

[@Beyondabsence]

@@christopherw6309 yes

[@queent3343]

Me too. I felt the same when I was called a baby killer.

[@lindsaypaige4628]

@@queent3343 did you have an abortion or just support other ppl who are baby killers?

[@queent3343]

@@lindsaypaige4628 Petty ballsy of you to ask a total stranger that question. Nasty too. Move on. Women are tired of being called baby killers, especially by sanctimonious women. We are also going to be tired of being dependent on charities and welfare just to satisfy your pro baby stance. Get out of other women's business and stay in your own.

[@shmeebs387]

One thing I don't get about the pro-choice position is why not err on the side of caution? Like what if you're wrong about that not being a "person" (whatever that even means)? You're so sure that you're willing to risk being a murderer to perform that procedure? I guess that causes a feedback loop where they then have to convince themselves that they're right, so they don't have to deal with what they've done.

[@harryfaber]

I grew up through the 60s, 70s and 80s. It was not uncommon for us to hear that 'X' was pregnant, X being a woman that we all knew wasn't ready to bring up a child. The first discussion would always be 'is she going to keep it or get rid of it?' It was legal, and it was being made 'normal'. Married couples would find themselves 'expecting', and health care professionals immediately would offer 'tests'. just to see if everything is ok with 'baby'. Why test? Well, if there is a problem we want to find out as soon as possible so we can consider a termination. That was normal, a 'kind' health care professional would be hinting at termination right from the start of a pregnancy. And after all, it wouldn't be legal if it wasn't ok? Right? So that became our mind set. Termination was a definite choice. Pregnant and you already have too many kids, well, you can terminate 'it' (always 'it', never the baby) Pregnant and you don't want husband/parents to know, there is a discrete clinic you can go to, the termination is quick, and you can be home in time to cook dinner. We were being encouraged to want sex, inside or outside marriage, mainstream TV programmes would be full of innuendo, and we were being told how we should expect a full and vigorous sex life. And if an 'accident' happens, you can always get rid of 'it'. If anyone suggested abstinence as one way to avoid pregnancy, they would simply be laughed at. By pretty much everyone. If we lived correctly, it simply wouldn't matter if abortion is legal or not, we would not be procreating, we would not be having 'unwanted pregnancies'. But, we don't live correctly (and as gar as I can see, never have) There always were people who were willing to 'aid, abet, counsel or procure' abortion. Back street abortioners, 'wise women' with poisonous pessaries. Pres Carter may have been close to being right with his view that abortion should be 'legal, safe and rare'. However, it seems that it has become a business opportunity, and way, way too common.

[@exerciserelax8719]

Many now say it doesn't matter. "No one has the right to use my body if I don't want them to."

[@Celestina0]

I err on the side of giving people the right to bodily autonomy. If you want to deny someone that right you need to prove that what we’re dealing with is a person and not something unsentient, unthinking and unfeeling.

[@shmeebs387]

@@Celestina0 But if I'm a betting man and look at the stakes of the two positions, being pro-life is the safe bet to do the least harm. If the pro-life position is wrong, they're subjecting tons of women to 9 months of unwanted pregnancies and childbirth. That sucks. They don't have to raise the baby since adoption is an option, but let's call it a year of autonomy. That sounds bad, sure. But if the pro-choice position is wrong, they're causing a mass killing of human lives on a scale that makes the Holocaust look tame. That's an easy bet for me. Sorry.

[@Celestina0]

@@shmeebs387 You act like all we can do is guess, not that we can find this stuff out. We know 90% of abortions happen before 3 months. We know 3 months old embryos don’t have fully functioning nervous systems. Mass killing of human lives sounds terrible until you realise you’ve expanded the term ‘human lives’ to include literal microscopic zygotes. Literally clumps of cells. And if you’re doing that you can fuvk off with the Holocaust comparisons. That’s not even getting into the fact that, even if the ‘pro-life’ position gets their way (abortion banned), you’re just pushing people to use illegal abortion providers. Denying people safe abortions makes them seek out unsafe abortions. Yay, more suffering.

[@rumenstoyanov1701]

Gerry: "Most people aren't aware of the philosophical assumptions that underlie the way they think" This is so true. When debating and pressing people to the first principles that justify their ethics, you can see them urgently scrounging for some philosophical principle on which to base themselves. The result is pathetic in the case of people who deny the truths of nature: they are forced to deny free will, deny the ends of nature, deny that there is anything out there other than the pursuit of pleasure, deny that humans are nobler than animals, deny that their is an objective truth and eventually tactitly admit they act the way they do because they like it best.

[@GracieDontPlayDat]

I challenge people by pointing out they are ignorant if they reject the Bible without reading it. It is the best selling book of all time, after all. If you can convince them to read it, we know it acts as a mirror they can see themselves more clearly in.

[@boristurovskiy351]

@@GracieDontPlayDat It's a bestselling fantasy book, sure! It's just that I wouldn't dream about basing my life on the teachings of a fantasy book, whether it be the Bible, the Mahabharata or Lord of the Rings.

[@rashadfoux6927]

"Science is . . . whatever we want it to be." - Dr. Spaceman, 30 Rock

[@B1TKZH47]

There are people who love the darkness. As St. Paul said, maybe we should continue living the truth with those who accept the truth and leave behind those who refuse it: just “shake the dust from our feet” and move on to those open to receiving new life.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

@@mike-cc3dd 100%. Jane's Revenge, Ruth Sent Us, BLM, ANTIFA are the ones making the violent threats. I say we oblige them.

[@robertajaycart3491]

Truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth.

[@bcalvert321]

You may not be able to convert your pro-choice friend but you should always try to. There is no sin that cannot be forgiven.

[@michaelibach9063]

Except those that aren’t repented of.

[@bcalvert321]

@@michaelibach9063 Yes that is true but even abortion can be repented.

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

@@michaelibach9063 what he's saying is if you repent, you will be forgiven. Obviously if you aren't willing to repent, you won't receive forgiveness.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

Pray, fasting, patience. Letting the Holy Spirit do the work of conversion. We can only plant seeds of truth into their souls, not only by our words, but by our actions, & joyful service to the Lord.

[@jacobdevasia]

I think the general populace (not the violent sort) who supports abortion are not really concerned with the question of truth (not because of malice, but because they perceive it and the question of when life begins as too abstract). I think happens is that they think of the women they know, who appear to them as more concrete persons and they support abortion as a way to resolve the issues they perceive that these women encounter. Unless we can get them to see that the preborn are as much a person as the woman (not by beating them over the head with scientific but abstract facts, but by connecting them with the personhood of the preborn babies), it will be difficult to change their minds. I think a good resource for this is the "Live Action" videos on abortion procedures. Perhaps these videos need to ve expanded to include more detail and beauty of life at the beginning.

[@OscyJack-]

So we should advocate for falsehoods?

[@jacobdevasia]

@@OscyJack- not that we should advocate for falsehoods. Sometimes just spitting out facts is easy (but ineffective). It may help to win the argument, but our goal is not to win the argument, but to win over the person and prevent abortion. So we may have to do the much harder aspect, which is to understand the person and to convince them with whatever it is that appeals to them as an individual person. We have to understand their concerns and try address those concerns.

[@FrankDag]

I think people who are anti-abortion are avoiding the truth that we give all people a right to bodily autonomy. If I need your lungs to live I don't have the right to take them from you. You can't force me to donate my blood no matter how much you need a transfusion. And even after I die, if I didn't agree to donate my organs, no one can have them. Just because a baby needs a mother's body to live, that doesn't mean we can force her to carry the baby. That's the consistent truth the pro-lifers are afraid of.

[@marybethstawarz3705]

Jacob when you find yourself pregnant. You know you are pregnant with a child. Any other explanation is sheer delusion and rubbish. You know. The difficult part is the living and expecting and all the life changes that will indeed happen in the next nine months and then twenty or so years. It’s life giving and life changing. ❤️

[@SL-es5kb]

No just the factual reality of a sentient subjective human being inside the womb. At 20 weeks they can survive but long before that they fully form their body and respond to stimuli. None of this is false.

[@marklizama5560]

Thanks for posting this, I think this one of the most important parts of that episode. The Truth truly does set you free!

[@laurenc6706]

Ok that ending there though. If you’re not a person I can do whatever I want to do to you is so spot on what pro choice logic is.

[@djg585]

"God has proposed a test for all mankind." That test is whether a person receives from God a love of truth, and subjects love of self to love of truth.

[@marybethstawarz3705]

Language… there are always other options to abortion. How many awesome people have adopted. My aunt an uncle for two. Always options other than ☠️. The Holy Spirit does the converting. We do the living in the truth. If and when they are converted they will have an example to live by. ❤️

[@Celestina0]

it is wrong to force someone to bring a foetus to term and give birth against their will.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

100% Testify Sista Soul-jah! I think most regular every-day normies, who are 'pro-choice', are unaware of Silent No More Awareness & Rachel's Vineyard.

[@jeanlanz2344]

Wow! What a great discussion that raises so many reasons that people believe what they do. You both also talk about people's differing responses to truth based on their philosophy: accept and submit to truth or reject it as irrelevant for not conforming to my needs and desires.

[@josepoeth6442]

Very nice that you talk about the people who have strong beliefs about pro choice with compassion,.

[@sandstorm7768]

So many good points... Countless good points!

[@willscarborough9089]

The ending struck at the core of the issue and it’s a difference in belief about when a person becomes a person. The issue becomes, though, that most pro choice people struggle to adequately define or set parameters to what makes a “person”. Generally when they try to they do so in a way that would justify abortion but if those parameters are taken to their logical ends it always seems to make some subset of “birthed” people not actually people which of course is a problem. The bottom line is most of them don’t feel like it’s murder primarily because they don’t have to see it or think about it. It’s much easier to rationalize killing something you can’t see than slitting a babies throat while it screams.

[@AlexHernandez-ee5hd]

Everything you said is an opinion. Specifically the opinion of a cult member. Actual science gives us the answer.

[@willscarborough9089]

@@AlexHernandez-ee5hd ah yes the old “your a cult member”. This is a logical fallacy. You’ve attacked ME instead of what I said. You’ve also invoked the broad term of “science” as providing you an answer but failed to tell me what the answer is and through what means and methods science arrived at this conclusion. Please define when a person becomes a person through whatever logical and coherent means you desire. A fairly simple scientific argument (excluding religious positions) would be that detection of a heart beat proves some rudimentary form of life (specifically in mammals). We measure death in lack of a heart beat. Calling me names doesn’t prove your point.

[@AlexHernandez-ee5hd]

@@willscarborough9089 What you've said is CULT PROPOGANDA, because you are PART OF A CULT. If you don't like facts, that really isn't my problem. Unfortunately for you, it isn't a fallacy, and no matter how many times you say it, these facts won't change. The method by which we determine personhood is through brain function. A human can be alive and braindead, but they are no longer a person, they are a clump of cells. If there is no detectable brain function. It isn't a person. It isn't up for debate...

[@willscarborough9089]

@@AlexHernandez-ee5hd it’s interesting that you off the cuff label me a cultist (whatever that does or doesn’t mean to you). I haven’t appealed to any deity, cited any religious text, or given any indication as to what “spiritual” beliefs I may or may not have. Again, your initial reaction was to attack the PERSON to try and invalidate my opinion instead of discussing my comment. Notice I haven’t attacked your person (because I don’t know you) but I will discuss your opinion. Brain activity is hard to measure in utero however according to science a babies first involuntary reactions happen around week 8 as the brain begins to form and synapses start to link up. This of course may or may not be enough “brain activity” for your particular stance. The brain still develops much after birth and isn’t truly developed as an “adult” brain until around 21 weeks. Here is an interesting article by a PHd (who appears to be pro life) discussing 1950s research on the brain activity of 10 week old fetuses that might be interesting www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/books/chapters/the-ethical-brain.html Here is one that’s more nuanced which discusses the different levels of activity and how to frame them in terms of when a “person” becomes a person and not a lump of cells. Notice too how he discusses the varying definitions of “brain dead” that exist across nations and cultures and how there isn’t necessarily one single solitary “scientific” definition of what does or doesn’t constitute enough brain activity to be considered viable. www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/books/chapters/the-ethical-brain.html What is your personal definition of brain activity as it pertains to defining when a person is or isn’t “a person”?

[@willscarborough9089]

@Greg Elchert much of the assisted suicide seems to stem from a staunch utilitarian viewpoint that’s crept into Western thinking. I don’t personally know a lot of “pro choice” people who when presented with the idea of killing “existing” people are indifferent. Most that I interact with feel that the fetus isn’t really a person or alive in a true sense and thus abortion doesn’t actually kill. I’m sure there are a wide range of opinions but I still think at this issue’s core is our failure as a society to agree on when a person is “alive” enough to have inalienable rights (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness).

[@mattlutz1105]

Most people in my generation (20-30 years old) do not think philosophically about things. They only think pragmatically, and I think that’s a huge problem. Because the philosophy informs the pragmatism. But the thing that’s informing their pragmatism is their own intuition. The average person thinks like this, a thought comes into their mind, then they check that thought against their natural intuition. If it goes against their natural intuition, they reject it, if it aligns, they accept it. The thought process of the average human doesn’t really get any deeper than that.

[@MrKT410]

I believe most people understand the abortion issue is extremely complicated and nuanced. Extreme pro-choice advocates often lie to themselves that a fetus is just a clump of cells and has no value. It comes across as callous. Extreme pro-life advocates often undervalue the issue of body autonomy. There are clearly 2 competing interests which is why most Americans reject both a total ban on abortions AND no limitations on abortion.

[@rightinthedome9973]

I managed to convert 1 person.

[@GracieDontPlayDat]

What did you ask/say?

[@rickandrygel913]

Honestly I think it would be impossible to change a person's mind if they believed that the sky was not blue.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

I agree. But prayer with fasting, along with being a light of Christ may help that person to start thinking about thinking about changing their mind. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.

[@bohem5568]

The issue is about the law. It is about choice and options, not religious beliefs. Problem with the Christians view is the inherent idea everyone falls under the umbrella of their religion. Fact is not all do. Government is NOT about adhering to any religious doctrines or beliefs but rather doing what's in the best interest for the people it governs. In the US, the constitution and belief lie in the priority to preserve individual freedoms, equally, while keeping a stable, safe, society for everyone.

[@joshhenderson7723]

You guys are digging at the heart of a reformed understanding of human depravity and presuppositional apologetics. Good stuff.

[@FutureNihilist]

We've been sacrificing our children to the "greater good" for a long time, it's so human of us.

[@williamreymond2669]

On a different KZbin channel I was just watching, an interview with Rob Henderson the man who coined the idea of "luxury beliefs" the idea was brought up of an upper class who's goal was to produce in their lives, perfect "predictability" as opposed to a lower class who was more tolerant of or more susceptible to 'unpredictability.' I propose to extend that argument from the mere upper-class/lower-class domain to the domain of the argument over abortion. The thesis I am proposing is that the abortion argument for women hinges on an individual woman's preference for predictability, where predictability means being able to eliminate unwanted children whenever necessary. I would further argue that 'normal' women prefer 'predictability' over 'unpredictability.' There is of course a type who prefers chaos, unpredictability, and you can see how both types interact in the pro-abortion argument - in other words women who preferer unpredictability tend to need women who need predictability to support their need for an abortion. I may need to polish that a little, but I hope you get the point.

[@user-dg9ls1xt4h]

“Hurting from the sexual revolution”that phrase is it. It just says what the private hurt is that people everyday hurt with. Write a book, teach a college course, develop curriculum for children- boys and girls to unhurt. So new generations stop this wretched mistake.

[@peggybruening4415]

Excellent as usual, thank you and God bless….

[@nathanmorris4663]

Bearing in mind that Truth is not just an “it” but Truth is a “He.” “I am the way the TRUTH and the life.” - Jesus (John 14:6) If one loves Jesus, they will in turn love that which is True, Good, and Beautiful. Conversely, a hatred or indifference toward God, will cause a certain repulsion of even some of the simpler truths - like life is sacred, sex is sacred. I think the perversion of the concept of love, reducing it to an emotion and excluding the sacrificial component has left people at a loss for how God loves man and how we are in turn called to love Him and each other. These guys are right we can’t just argue with the left with facts, because truth is repulsive. We must win first the war against the perversion of love. Only then will we as a culture see the ugliness we have brought upon ourselves.

[@aaroncarlin3074]

Some of these activists are so hard hearted, so unable to hear that the pearls before swine saying of Jesus comes to mind. These souls don't want to negotiate. OK - so we fight. Not with physical violence, yelling and screaming! But with prayer and fasting. Prayer that actually has teeth. Some demons can only be cast out by prayer and fasting, especially the Mass and rosary. We must pray that these souls may feel the pain of what they are advocating, see the evil clearly - and then gain the courage to repent. The medicine of reason is too weak. Only prayer and fasting will help now.

[@christophersnedeker2065]

Ah but they say the same of you. Be not quick to declare your foe a dog or a swine.

[@aaroncarlin3074]

@@christophersnedeker2065 Christ Himself described some people as being like swine because they will not hear. Sadly, I see a lot of that in many of these activists. In using the pearls before swine image, I'm calling a spade a spade. We need to pray and fast. Jesus was not saying that some persons are irredeemably bad - no way, He would not died for them. Even the worst of us can be redeemed. I pray for these guys because I know there's good in them - made in God's likeness and image. They can call us whatever - fine. I pray we may have the courage to be patient, fighting in the way of Christ on the Cross.

[@josephwillis665]

I pray for everyone who does not know the truth, that they will someday watch a detailed video of an abortion, I believe many or most would have a change of heart ❤️🙏🏻 Thank you for your wonderful podcast 👍😊🙏🏻

[@OscyJack-]

I've had four and completed more than 900 myself. And I sleep quite well at night knowing how much I've helped my patients

[@bcalvert321]

@@OscyJack- 4 what?

[@josephwillis665]

@@OscyJack- I’ll pray for you and for the repose of all the Souls of those babies 🥲🙏🏻

[@michaelibach9063]

@@bcalvert321 abortions dude

[@bcalvert321]

@@michaelibach9063 I wanted him to be clear. I got that later on. You, like Oscyjack are about as clear mud.

[@bobandkelly]

This reminds me of Jesus and Pilate. 'what is truth?'

[@johnvogel2120]

I like your Hansel and Gretel comment. Powerful, emotional, and hits home.

[@MrGaryweirich]

You know what really bothers me with pro-choice people? The statement that it is my body and it is my right to do what I want with my body. First off, your body may be the host; however, the baby is definitely NOT your body. The baby was made from one of your cells and one of the father's cells - a combination of the two. You feed it through the umbilical cord, which connects you to the baby, but it is not your body. You may feed your teenage child breakfast but that doesn't make him or her your body. It also is not the father's body, even though he supplied the other half in fertilization. The baby may have a different blood type than the mother, a different hair color than the mother, a different eye color than the mother, may wind up being taller or shorter than the mother, and a totally different personality than the mother. So what makes this fetus the mother's body? Now the right to do what you want with your body. Let us use one example. A women is right-handed. She is in love with a left handed man. He strongly dislikes people using their right hand. She tries and tries but is totally uncoordinated with her left hand. She gets an idea. If she has a doctor amputate her right hand, then she will be forced to use her left hand and surely he will then love her. Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her right hand. She travels around the country trying to find a licensed surgeon willing to cut off her fully functioning right hand. How do you think she fares? I think many would want her to seek mental evaluation and I think all reputable surgeons would refuse. Why? Because there is nothing wrong with her right hand and what normal thinking person would wish to do herself this harm? And that is her body. So she becomes pregnant and now wants an abortion. The fetus is perfectly healthy but it is not a good time in life to have a baby. So she goes to an abortion clinic and finds a licensed doctor to kill that baby on request. Give him the money and he is more than willing to kill your baby. And a good part of the country applauds her action and the doctor's action. What is wrong with this picture? On top of that, businesses are clamoring for workers and can't seem to reach full employment, even after raising hourly rates so much. I think I have a possible solution for the future. If we hadn't killed over 63 million babies since 1973, we might not have a work shortage now. Then maybe we wouldn't need China to make so many of our high-tech products. But at least we made it more convenient to murder babies. We have come a long way baby.

[@langleywallingford260]

NOBODY wants to "murder babies"... A lot of people who are pro choice view abortion as a LAST RESORT OPTION to be used only in the most DESPERATE AND DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES and NOT as a method of birth control!!! Most pro choice people (not counting the crazies) do not even wish for any woman to ever have an abortion or even be in the position of having to choose whether or not to have an abortion... They simply don't want to see it illegalised as that's only going to create more problems than it's going to solve!!! Wait a minute... What problems exactly ARE being solved by overturning Roe vs Wade??? 🤔🤨🧐

[@morganjones3401]

What if the fetus isn't healthy, what if it's suffering?

[@tintinismybelgian]

It's like the conundrum in _The Merchant of Venice._ Shylock was contractually entitled to possess the pound of flesh, but not to spill a drop of blood. Likewise, a mother may be morally entitled to worsen/benefit her own body's health (e.g., get a tattoo, eat organic produce, use sunscreen, do drugs, exercise), but that entitlement ends at the point of intentional harm to the fetus' body.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

100% we do not control our own bodies trying going to the edge of a bridge and threaten to jump. emergency services will stop you try ingesting illegal drugs into your system, law enforcement will arrest you try denying the vax, government will coerce you into getting jabbed (which is immoral)

[@lightowl4345]

As long as Doctors and Nurses condone abortion, it will be difficult to change everyone elses mind.

[@tedreid1035]

Do all doctors and nurses condone abortion? People don’t believe in doctors and nurses anymore. Look at Covid. Recommendations ignored left and right. All political

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

"Do no harm" turned into "kill innocent babies" real quick.

[@pauladorez4421]

Amen, profound language. Thank you 💓

[@marklizama5560]

I was watching the older episode with Christopher West, and the part where he brought up Monsters from the id, reminded me of something I've noticed about the horror genre; recently, a recurring theme in recent works from the horror genre is a loss of control, the protagonist is put in a place where both he and the audience believes that he is in total control, but it's eventually revealed that the complete opposite is true. I think this refers to people's repressed knowledge that they cannot impose their own wills on reality, that reality is indeed objective and you cannot control it.

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

Very astute observation, and very profound spiritual truth.

[@pauladorez4421]

Yes, I can agree with the commentary about the crowd going alongside the majority, when you're in that mindset.

[@sally-annestacey5751]

Christians should be offering lots of support for women with unplanned pregnancies.

[@charlesmuhmanson3928]

People know they can't control their passions and don't have a God to call and depend upon when they fail. It is scary for them.

[@AftonHH]

This is a fantastic dialogue. This is helpful.

[@matthewallen1266]

Morality is written on the hearts of every person. If you think that killing the most innocent among us is ok and you are a hero fighting for it, the Bible says you are a reprobate and you are suppressing the truth and they need to be called to repentance.

[@christophersnedeker2065]

They don't believe a zygote is a person. They say if it doesn't have consciousness then from it's own perspective it's no different then contraception. I don't think people who get abortions and support abortion really believe it's a fully human person.

[@matthewallen1266]

@@christophersnedeker2065 yes they do, "It is not human" is the time old excuse to murder people who are deemed a nuisance or undesirable, no one believes in their heart that babies aren't living human beings.

[@christophersnedeker2065]

@@matthewallen1266 Do you know their thoughts?

[@matthewallen1266]

@@christophersnedeker2065 on this issue yes I do the Bible tells us what their thoughts are

[@christophersnedeker2065]

@@matthewallen1266 How do you know? With an adult of another race it's difficult to not see their humanity but an embryo has very little similarities to a born baby or an adult human. I'm not saying their right I'm saying it's probable most act in ignorance.

[@saintd_ii]

It's sad but we're in a war, and the reality is that conservatives are on the defensive. We are lacking in aggression.

[@bcalvert321]

Aggression is not a good terminology when it comes to this. Prayer after 50 years has paid off. Getting in the face and yelling at anyone will not change their minds nor will it bring them to Jesus. The biggest help in no abortions is the ultrasound given when a mother wants to see what is in her womb.

[@michaelibach9063]

@@bcalvert321 last I checked your denomination of one had little to do with the overturning of roe v wade by Catholic judges and certainly cannot show every woman seeking an abortion an ultrasound pic all by your lonesome.

[@kathleenross5181]

Hmm, January 6 attack on the Capitol ending in death. Attack by conservatives. That seems pretty aggressive. It seems like conservative thinking is ruling the Supreme Court at this time and there is plenty of aggression on both sides.

[@michaelibach9063]

Why be aggressive? These progressives are literally burning down their own cities in protest. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

[@bcalvert321]

@@michaelibach9063 So you care nothing about saving souls. That people that do not agree with you are worthless. That is so pharisee of you. Just about as stupid as those that do burn down cities.

[@adrienkrebs7666]

Keep in mind the ones you wish to reach may have had one or several abortions and their anger is strong because they feel severely judged by strangers. Accepting a pro-choice position means coming to terms with a heavy reality, so show compassion. Sadly, many would have received misguided “support” from doctors, nurses, family or friends.

[@danielledamm1531]

The only thing that we all have in common is being human. So if you base the qualification for human rights on anything other than being human, you're doing so with a certain group in mind you want to exclude for personal gain. Size, level of consciousness, level of development, and circumstance all come in varying degrees, so basing the worth of a human being on those automatically makes some human beings more valuable than others, which is despicable in my opinion

[@77Catguy]

There certainly is a demographic of those who believe that one "creates one's own truth," but I don't think that's the central issue. The central issue is that the "powers that be" have decided that they want to push an anti-family, anti-procreation agenda for their own purposes--and they have every propaganda means at their disposal to advance that agenda on multiple fronts from multiple strategies. They've co-opted nearly all categories of social influencers, including "news," "entertainment," and "academia." That said, when you're selling a massive, socially destructive lie not in the best interests of 99% of us, your chief enemy--and Achille's heel--will always be objective rational truth--and really, that's all we have going for us at this point. Present facts as they are, logically, and attack distortions of truth as they are as well. In time, the fruits of the poison that is being fed to us will not be able to be hidden anymore. Let's hope the illusions are broken befiore society completely collapses--because when that happens, then the bad guys will step in and claim to be "saviors"--if only we accede to their absolute dictates.

[@MrCheesywaffles]

You said it. The father of lies was a murderer from the start. His spiritual children are no different, attacking the most vulnerable in their very humanity by denying it - "it's not a human life until I say it is", applying that to the beginning of us, to the sick & frail, especially the old, and the disabled through euthenasia & pressures to not intervene where possible & appropriate.

[@victorjvanderwoude3102]

1. No matter what you say they take it as a religious argument. They rejected religion and see their position as superior because it focuses on "woman's rights" to physical autonomy. The baby is irrelevant to their thinking. So while a non religious argument is possible they aren't interested in really debating the issue. 2. Many Pro-abortion people don't see themself as that hence Pro-choice is their preferred term. So the physical/emotional aspects of actually performing an abortion and the corpse photo's of unborn annoy them rather than disgust them. 3. Maybe Pro-abortion people claim they themselves won't have an abortion thereby removing themselves from the consequences of abortion. It's a social political issue they support on principal. Right's rather than a medical issue which they wouldn't remove from others. The actual act of abortion doesn't factor nor the corpse concrete in their minds. It's easier to ignore horrors of actual abortions especially late term abortions. 4. Those who've had abortions. Abortion has a deadening effect on the consciousness. So some of the most radical radical Pro-abortion activists have had multiple abortions. 5. Political correctness and or cross issues. Leftist ideology (usually taught in College/University) and LGBTQ support. 6. Misinformation based on Gender studies which relativizes categories and biological determinants and definition of life.

[@burleydad]

Great point. If you don't even share a common vocabulary, how can you possibly come to any sort of agreement.

[@taketheredpill1452]

I'm not left or right, pro-choice or pro-life. Religion is for people who aren't good at thinking for themselves. You will return #SoulTrap

[@shannonmaria22]

Beautiful conversation.

[@commonwunder]

This question has many nuances, subtle points that are tricky to find definitive answers to… but the ultimate answer for progressive 'forward thinking' societies as a whole is easy. In a modern, secular society, every woman should have a choice. It should be a deeply personal decision. Whilst she may be counselled... her final decision is beyond the bounds of anyone else's views or opinions. Because the rights of an individual member of society, when it comes to 'carrying a child to birth' is more important than the views of any other particular group. To be against this ‘basic human right'.. is an archaic, obsolete opinion. Either religious 'and/or' from a bygone survival instinct to propagate the species, at a time when humans life expectancy was very low. For those of you that believe that two thousand years ago there was a bloke wandering around who was the God of the entire universe. That he wanted you to stop women’s rights to an abortion… should ask yourself some more pertinent questions about your own beliefs system - than force your antiquated opinions on others? There're nearly eight billion humans milling around. Every single day, two hundred million 'land-animals' are slaughtered in order to feed them. Humans are not rare and there're already far too many. If a plague wiped out ninety-nine percent of all humans... there would still be seventy million left. In this modern secular world... the number one priority is the 'potential' child's welfare. If the child is unwanted, its welfare is at risk. Sex should not result in a nine month prison sentence, a child bearer should not be forced to carry it... in order to 'raise it herself or give it up for adoption'. It is 'always better' to raise a child in a loving, caring home than it to be fostered. As a society 'we' should strive for this alone. Not to use dogma, in order to argue at what time a foetus is human or not? That's irrelevant... a foetus is a human when it's born. When it can be taken care of by another. The first trimester has generally been agreed upon 'for most women' to be the cut off point. But in certain rare cases, this cut-off point is raised. In some medical emergences, if the woman is so obese that she doesn't even realise she's pregnant, a pubescent child, cases of rape and incest, etc, etc. But these are 'mostly' rare exceptions - to be used over the first trimester mark. How this is still an issue is bizarre. It's such a fundamental right for someone living in a modern society... that when you hear people who argue against it... you begin to wonder what other values in the 'wests' egalitarian modern society… that they also must have an issue with, the list must be nearly endless? The question of 'abortion rights' is purely an ideal, an ideal about individualism. You either have trust in the way a society brings up its young, so issues with unwanted pregnancy are low. Or you put your energies into teaching the young about sex and its repercussions .. rather than taking away peoples freedom. When it is a ‘birth right’ as an individual living in the west to a choice.

[@paulward5071]

He’s unable to make a judgment on Nancy Pelosi???

[@tamarakonczal6350]

my question to these folks is "should landlords be allowed to kill their tenants?"

[@andrewadkins533]

The political issue behind the presenting scientific issue of life v death is this: the difference in the ease with which masculine vs feminine irresponsibility is possible in cases of sexual indiscretion. Pro-choice does not, in the immediate sense, mean to those who hold this view are focused upon the choice of life or death of the child. It means the attempt to equalize opportunity in the choice to reject responsibility for sexual indiscretion. For them: If males can walk away; why not females? Pro-life rhetoric should also focus on equalizing masculine responsibility. If she must carry the baby to term on account of the moral-scientific fact of new life; must he pay a child tax, with inability to pay resultant in time served, given that new life must be provided for until independence is possible? Must we make casual consensual trysts much more expensive than prostitution - monthly payments to the public purse for twenty years? Must we consider the imprisonment or heavy taxation of males without sexual self-discipline?

[@kathleenross5181]

Thank you Andrew. One of the major issues driving female anger over this…..is exactly what you are saying. Where is the emphasis on male responsibility for a pregnancy? The majority of comments I see are rude comments by men about women which I can’t even repeat. I’m sure you’ve seen them. It is a rare man who calls for masculine responsibility/abstinence. And, if there is not an equal movement to provide more health care, counseling, financial assistance, etc. to unwed mothers, there is going to continue to be women who are outraged and more women and their unborn children, who will die. The pendulum has swung one way now, but it will swing back, guaranteed, until these issues are addressed.

[@tintinismybelgian]

If "abstinence" is an offensive term to people in the hook-up culture, maybe it needs to be rebranded as a "long-term sex strike."

[@johnladuca249]

On point. Great conversation.

[@el_killorcure]

Easy: start by finding the ones who will grant "my body my choice" to those who oppose vax mandates. Those are at least consistent and honest. We can start there...

[@314jph]

"People not aware of principles and philosophy underlying positions they take," because they are unthinking automata and we have an indoctrination system - not an education system. We live in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"

[@deborahmckinley4732]

We are asked to take our cross up and follow Jesus.. so we will not be seeking what we think the majority thinks and go along! We follow the Edict of our Lord!

[@kennethdias9988]

The pro choice activists are not representing your average pro choice person because average pro choice person doesn’t support abortion in the second and third term abortion.

[@boristurovskiy351]

Radical pro-choicers ('legal under all circumstances') and radical pro-lifers ('illegal under all circumstances') are both small minorities. Unfortunately, they're the extremely loud ones and so dominate the debate😐

[@kennethdias9988]

@@boristurovskiy351 They are radical pro Abortion they don’t validate the choice to have the babies or they would partner with the pregnancy centers the help women with the pregnancy and newborn babies.

[@caitlin8160]

Spot on. Too many people believe in relativism. The conversation has to start there.

[@mrmaggoo35]

PLEASE Change the title of this video! it's well argued and I would like to share it with an intelligent pro-choice person I know, but how are they supposed to get past the title?

[@apubakeralpuffdaddy392]

You explain to the intelligent pro choice person to ignore the title, saying that you'd prefer to give it another title. But as they say don't judge a book by its cover.

[@yesenia3816]

This was humbling. I needed this.

[@tomwellman4500]

These two fellows are discussing how the other side is incapable and/or unwilling to see the truth of their side, but all the while they are unwilling and/or incapable of seeing the truth of the other side. I'm not talking about subjective “truth”. I'm talking about two objective truths. The fetus has a right to live, and the pregnant woman has the right to bodily autonomy. If the pregnant woman wants to carry the fetus full term, there is no conflict. However, if she does not, then conflict exists between these two competing rights. Those on the pro-life side believe that the fetus's right to live supersedes the pregnant woman's right to bodily autonomy. Those on the pro-choice side believe that the pregnant woman's right to bodily autonomy supersedes the fetus's right to live. Both sides feel that their position is perfectly reasonable and morally correct. Both sides also believe that the other side's position is unreasonable and morally incorrect. Most people are so entrenched in one side or the other that they are unwilling to truthfully consider or admit that the other side has a valid point. I don't know what the solution is or if there even IS a definitive solution. I only know that both sides should stop vilifying and/or smugly dismissing the other side. It is possible to be pro-life without believing that women are second class citizens who lose their right to self-determination once they become pregnant. It is also possible to be pro-choice without being a cold-blooded baby killer and/or an advocate of eugenics. Personally, I would have found this entire video more worthwhile if it featured the bearded gentleman (who struck me as the more open-mined of the two) discussing this issue with a reasonable person on the pro-choice side of the debate. I’m not sure how much value there is in two people on the same side talking about how wrong and misguided those on the other side are. However, this seems to be the state of most current political discourse.

[@ericlucas82]

Ephesians, 6:12 "For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens." Abortion does not start with murder. It ends in murder. How does it start? Some legal or illegal relationship between a man and a woman. If you want abortion to end, sexual obsession must end.

[@chart418]

I wasn’t pro-life until I converted. Then I instantly knew it was true and fought with zeal. More prayer and sacrifice. People saw Jesus and still didn’t believe. They have to receive grace first.

[@trumpbellend6717]

Keep your fairytale to yourself I'm not interested in the slightest

[@fritzco55]

My wife considers herself pro-choice. She feels abortion is wrong, but that until women have access to all healthcare, that it should be legal. I don't understand this argument.

[@lifewiththegentryfamily6332]

“But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” ‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:20-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I believe the church was using compassion with pro choice, and lgbtq agendas and it made it worse because the definition of love to the world is acceptance. Now that we started using fear of hell is when we’re starting to win again. We use words like murder for abortion, and child abuse and grooming for lgbtq agendas. It works to call out sin.

[@chereecannon3398]

People, especially kids need to read more material that exposes them to truth.

[@trumpbellend6717]

As long as you don't think the "bible" has any say in this "truth"

[@houstonsam6163]

The word "truth" itself has been abused with the sophistry of "your truth" and "my truth."

[@Mark-fc7tu]

It's about belief, and circumstances that drive people to stand by their beliefs.

[@itsgettingold]

I think you have that backwards: circumstances don't drive belief, belief drives perception of circumstances.

[@courag1]

We have 4 precious grandchildren, 2 from each of our older sons, and our youngest and his wife are trying to start their family. She’s miscarried twice, I pray for them, I never had an issue like this, we’d agree to try and BOOM! I was pregnant. If any want to pray for her along with me, her name is Zoë. Life is precious which is why outside of the committed relationship of marriage, couples should wait. Even if they haven’t waited and a child is conceived, marriage should follow and have a lovely reception later. If a church is pro- abortion, how can they claim the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord of LIFE!?!?

[@Del-Blanco-Diablo]

I beg too differ, I was pro choice for most of my adult life until I seen what a late term abortion actually entails and I was that shocked and horiffied it changed my mind in that very instances, no second thinking about it my mind was changed. Now the only time I think abortion is acceptable is if the pregnancy could harm the mother for children conceived through rape i would say aboption is the best course of action for mother and child, i used to think rape babies should be aborted too but when i reflected on it i came to the conclusion that the children were innocent and should have a chance at life they shouldn't be punished for the evil actions of their sperm donors.

[@trumpbellend6717]

I think you will find we are not talking about "late term" abortions dear.

[@gingertankersley2997]

I wonder if you'll comment on this: I do want our culture to begin valuing LIFE again. And I don't think currently that I would say a woman must be forced to have her baby. But as the broader culture begins to say yes to life maybe some of the remaining shame of an unwanted pregnancy, like why did you let that happen, will fall away. (Of course, i sometimes think where is the embarrassment or shame in sleeping around ). Slowly or slightly slowly we can appreciate that sex can create life and its ok, even good, to have the baby. And sometimes its good to marry the father., unless he happened to be a casual hook-up who you wouldn't bring home to meet your mom or dad. My reason for asking for comment is that my view is looking at changing culture and is ok with the gradual end of abortion.

[@floydfan82]

Proverbs 3:32-35 “For the devious are an abomination to the LORD; But He is intimate with the upright. The curse of the LORD is on the house of the wicked, But He blesses the dwelling of the righteous. Though He scoffs at the scoffers, Yet He gives grace to the afflicted. The wise will inherit honor, But fools display dishonor.”

[@robertsimmons8614]

One thing Pro-Lifers never address is " who is going to raise the unwanted baby? " in the case of the 10 year old rape victim lwt me ask, how does a 10 year old raise a child? Where can she get a job? Can she pay rent, car note, how does she get health insurance?

[@Pax-qu3dw]

Pray to God for their conversion.

[@michaelschaefer1904]

I've heard of a lot of converts over the year, probably 100s. I've seen very few convert the other way who aren't politicians or persuaded by money/financial gain.