osu!mapping: ProfessionalBox & "unplayable" maps

talking with probox about wub maps, his mapping, and aspire
full interview: • probox full interview
professionalbox's profile: osu.ppy.sh/u/3250792
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twitter: / pishifat
patreon: / pishifat
maps referenced:
coming soon, not home at the time of uploading :(

[@vertoHUN]

Remember when HanzeR's "Miss You" was criticised for being unplayable when it got qualified? Good times

[@JennyDarukat]

Hey I remember doing that 🙃

[@wargaroth]

Remember when Hailie's "Itari Ten" was criticised for being unplayable when it got qualified? Good Times

[@m4sterred853]

verto in 2019, we could say that for - Fallen - and Rubik’s Cube.

[@fruscho6517]

There were 5 reasons why this map blown up. The 5. was BeastrollMC with his video.

[@ProfessionalBox]

I mentioned this in the interview but pishi had to cut a lot of our talk anyways.

[@ProfessionalBox]

This was one of the examples given for the 2. "Media outlets" part.

[@user-ou6ps8je2b]

#UNCENSORPROBOX

[@UmCaraNormalnumPlanetanormal]

@@user-ou6ps8je2b Lol

[@GRANDMAST3R]

Well, i dont see how "tech" is a bad term to use. What most people think of when using that Word is mostly that the map is technical, difficult to play because it is. Strange patterns or fast sliders cant really be put into a category.

[@hachikuji_mayoi]

Tech is bad term because different people draw the line at different point

[@cavemann_]

skaro I don't think there is any need to make so many subcategories like we have in music, you know?

[@bluerinako]

@@cavemann_ subcategories help us find more of the things we are interested in.

[@_emik]

can we talk about how rrtyui got neuronecia fc with flashlight

[@daniel3k]

Didnt rrtyui sb? Also fgsky hdfl btw

[@shna3609]

daniel3k rrtyui fc’ed

[@alt-32]

No

[@bananya6020]

it's unplayable because iit's unfarmable

[@Mica45]

Electroblade ^

[@account-pd4fi]

You gotta admit, he's spitting facts

[@bananya6020]

this comment has likes too wow

[@ScubDomino]

a-pp map a-jump map a-stream map a-me mario

[@ScubDomino]

oh and also the actual grandfather of wub maps is tsuka, not nold

[@ProfessionalBox]

@@ScubDomino no he would be the great grandfather. And if you went far back enough peppy would be the great great great great great great great grandfather.

[@allieosu1192]

@@ProfessionalBox peppy with the bunny jump tech map grid mapping

[@loeki8478]

ppy is like Adam.

[@phoneticalballsack]

More like scrubdomino haha poggers

[@flandrescarlet2903]

No mention of globgogabgolab marathon that he almost self made

[@StickmanHatena]

I always figured "tech" stands for "technique" since most good maps introduce a gimmick and build on it. All usually require a bit more "technique" to grasp than the typical map.

[@UmCaraNormalnumPlanetanormal]

Same

[@concernedcommenter8258]

I thought it was technical because it was a technically hard map to play. It requires a lot of instinctual skill to play such maps because reading the sliders and following them is just not possible to do fast enough. You have to read ahead and play instinctually. Therefore I assumed it meant technical gameplay.

[@ryucami3208]

Probox's Technical mapping is satisfying af~°

[@Kahli]

13:03 Lmao that new background for the map is beautiful

[@user-so5zf4js9v]

ProBox is soooo cute. >w

[@georgewashington2736]

wtf

[@Catzzye]

I agree!

[@soaptastesalrightiguess7932]

I want him to give me the pregnant

[@ProfessionalBox]

@@soaptastesalrightiguess7932 how old are you, are you a girl, what's your phone number, are you free this friday?

[@WangleLine]

OwO

[@hi-def9936]

Sotarks is my favorite tech mapper :)

[@emiriultimecia6684]

weird pick but ok

[@vividclarities7860]

probably a joke

[@VerkoAviarhidea]

He makes good tech maps if he makes it ngl, Song Compailation 2 is a prime example

[@hi-def9936]

@@VerkoAviarhidea i think that map is pretty bad, i dont enjoy it

[@matt-rq1ck]

leave it all to me was actually really.good

[@user-dj5sk5dc5v]

Osu! sure has come a long way. *wipes tear away*

[@ig188]

Great video!

[@Mica45]

Hollow Wings, She??? Kowalski Analysis

[@yato1736]

I feel like im playing an instrument playing wub maps + the sliders is like telling the story of the song

[@bunshine]

yeah except probox's

[@joaoarthur2945]

I consider pishifat a technical mapper since some of his maps aren't really straight on, like his map "platinum groove" and others android52 songs mapped by him, like, the rhythm choices are all crazy and the composing itself too. And are GOOD maps I can say :3

[@hypercyte]

elite mapper

[@hacccchan]

UndeadCapulet and the Devil when Kappa

[@Speedshot55]

Childplay this but unironically. I wanna hear what UC really thinks about movement/emotion based mapping in 2018 and why everyone hates it

[@smugfaced]

undeadcombolet and rendezvous xd

[@TheWritersMind]

so pro box, this is what i think of out of this earths atomosphere, It feel and plays like a professional-box map. thats honestly an okay thing, your maps are good, but it felt like either A: everyone tried to conform to your style or B: you went in and made minor changes that made it feel more like one.

[@lmWombo]

i think what people tend to mean when something is unplayable is that the maps PP weight isnt worth the actual difficulty it would take to play the map well therefore isnt worth their time playing to set a good score

[@thewaterbottle7480]

grumd would be nice to see :D

[@tazkerino]

Isn't he a stream-mapper?

[@eliasbachner1898]

Great video! Sorry for the ridiculous nitpick but at 4:09 you use "flare" instead of "flair".

[@asmylia9880]

Nacht100 and "unplayable" maps when? :^)

[@mulraf]

map in the beginning? (so familiar but just can't remember it :x) edit: that moment when you see your experimental graveyard beatmaps background in the background video and your heart rate goes up to the bpm but then you realize it's someone else's. #rip :o(

[@timcan9483]

If only autofail wasn't such a bug problem xd

[@ze_or]

i really hope for lazer to add more possibility such as variable ar and cs

[@Lenara2103]

I'm not really keeping up with news about lazer but wasn't variable cs already semi-confirmed? Or was that just community-hype (noticed it somewhere in some comment section, someone talking 'bout how lazer will be funny because of circle size changes...)

[@ze_or]

I believe peppy talked about the idea in one of his tweets or something, so everyone is anticipating it now.

[@Ranipla]

I really hope there's variable ar.

[@Dyleniz]

I'm watching in the universe where Wrost HR Player FC'ed both athomosphere maps

[@tataguy20020]

"the first peasant to start shifting mapping" 1:20

[@Superbobo1]

video uploaded 45 seconds ago pog

[@OliBomby]

No hard feelings, tumour-chan

[@mukkuru]

We don't need another personification

[@thunderjolt69]

Interview Ascendance.

[@jordanroemmich6226]

Is there a video on the design tab in the song setup tab I have no idea what it does or how to use it effectively

[@AndrewRKenny]

Design tab is for storyboarding. Most mappers never touch it. I storyboard with scripting so I basically never use it either. I doubt pishi will cover it unless he interviews -Tochi or something.

[@jordanroemmich6226]

@@AndrewRKenny Thank you, good I'm not missing much then!

[@altom4255]

13:01 can somebody tell me what map is this i want to play it so badly .-.

[@LahiruVIP]

I tought probox quit mapping shortly after 2016 apsire.

[@n0vywOw]

12:36 nice timewarp

[@olcatgaming859]

It's that handsome guy

[@Andre12241]

ProfessionalBox's maps are amazing. I just love playing his maps, even though I'm not that good as the pro players with tech maps, I just enjoy playing these kind of maps because they are a challenge to get a high combo and it's different from the usual maps or 1-2 maps.

[@NooSixpack]

Kinda funny how Probox said "we are reaching a players skill ceiling"

[@Vinnie740]

Axshually it's atomOsphere and I find it unacceptable that you said it wrong /sarcasm

[@MKVD]

Torille??

[@benzo.s-revenge]

You made history. Nobody asks for the skin *clap clap*

[@handsomelessking]

Can you explain Aleph-0 map?

[@bossduck3]

really cool video, and I like a lot of insight that probox brought on the subject. just to clarify though, the criticism that it was "overhyped" wasn't a jab at the amount of people that enjoyed it, it was more because it was felt that the map didn't deserve the "hype" that it got.

[@trashcowew]

perkele

[@immort4730]

Can't really say anything about storyboard maps being cool visuals centered when the last two aspire winners used visual slider gimmicks.

[@BRjon8354]

Pishi if someone is trying to learn mapping through your maps, which maps and order you'll describe them?

[@AndrewRKenny]

Depends on what you want to map and what your level of experience is. Making maps yourself will help you understand how to study other ones though.

[@BRjon8354]

@@AndrewRKenny To explain, I know the basics of mapping but my choose of what to use os really poor.. or am I super creative and the map gets bad or I'm not creative and then gets super boring and simplistic

[@BRjon8354]

@@AndrewRKenny I have differents songs that I want to map, pop, eurobeat, Rock, rap, hip hop...

[@XXneatfreakXX]

@@BRjon8354 just map more...

[@BRjon8354]

@@XXneatfreakXX map everything that I want more or just one specific rhythm?

[@selfiestick1589]

still waiting for the "maps referenced" list :'v

[@JennyDarukat]

The fact that people actually called one of my maps "tech", despite not really being anything like the maps showcased in this video, is what made me wonder just how diluted the term is.

[@JennyDarukat]

@Tensho ofc. I think Wuv U is more funky as a map, but here we are

[@ClassicMist360]

Stop making conclusions from 1 or 2 idiots who use the term incorrectly. You'll find examples of that with any word in the English dictionary, whatever point you were trying to make is completely nul

[@saiyonara]

where's the referenced maps

[@ragnarokvii]

I just realised there was 3 views when i clicked on the video

[@YuaGacha]

pog

[@pouks]

pls link the maps referenced :(

[@seandeen5496]

Can anyone tell me what the maps at 11:22 and 13:02 are?

[@nguyengabriel2229]

I think 11:22 is disconnected hardkore

[@seandeen5496]

@@nguyengabriel2229 Thanks! Maps referenced never. ;_;

[@blotas1904]

OHMYGODITSAROCKET

[@iPhong]

12:40 Eminem rap fast

[@UniQwer]

i found out about ProBox was because of "CAND¥¥¥LAND"

[@celestialnxght1995]

nice

[@visionary4644]

maps: coming soon

[@adim2222]

If some1 says the map is unplayable just hit them with "skill issue" and watch their 6 digit ass cry

[@cvypher7612]

Lol the "unplayable" maps title belongs to UndeadCapulet

[@wrongwayscout]

hello there

[@qx7392]

wait for me to break the limitations kappa

[@jaakkohintsala2597]

suomi perkele

[@GRANDMAST3R]

Unpopular opinion: Most people cry about maps because they cant play them and mappers complain about innovation because they would get irrelevant if there were to be a change

[@bananya6020]

Unpopular opinion: stop doing this

[@GRANDMAST3R]

@@bananya6020 Stop doing what?

[@bananya6020]

Andi4324 wait what

[@GRANDMAST3R]

@@bananya6020 you are making me confused ,_,

[@bananya6020]

i'm confused as well

[@yasuh4550]

Kiitokset kaikille, ei kai siinä sitten

[@l1mi13]

Id call night of nights a tech map, unless it was mapped by Sotarks then its a jump map. Wub wub maps just about those sounds. Tech maps are hard to play maps that have a difficulty that comes from other things than speed and distance. Like the rhythm or reading, wub wub maps belong in and are included in the tech map group due to 1/4 sliders and insane SV changes. Not because of the speed but because slider velocity changes are hard to read. At least thats my delusional definition of tech maps, I noticed people often use the word for everything.

[@Punguwu]

wub wub

[@kretueu5386]

Skin?

[@kolja783]

Finally a video about my daddy

[@nejime2771]

kroytz next pls haha

[@daylight3053]

I agree, would like to see why he still uses perfect symmetry.

[@M8gazine]

Hailie next pls

[@VeysTheGreat]

candy

[@abberadhi]

4:42 :(

[@lithium820]

Lost all respect for ProBox since i found out he uses Bezier 3 point sliders for halfbeat sliders

[@BarniHedgeturtle]

What a crime! Definitely worthy of losing ones respect when committing such a heinous monstrosity.

[@liliancore_]

@@BarniHedgeturtle its 99% a joke lol

[@habiholic5086]

Hi elete mapper

[@Stacked_]

I love hard tech maps

[@bobbybenny12]

Probox is hot

[@matt-rq1ck]

I agree

[@endsu]

ok

[@zlidyh5]

C H A N G I N G S L I D E R V E L O C I T Y I S N T I N N O V A T I O N

[@auliairsyad1950]

rank candyyland

[@georgewashington2736]

wub wub > tech. Change my mind.

[@raikitsunagi]

wub wub wulf

[@play-s-_______-osu]

Nobody will

[@bananya6020]

it depends on the map, people tend to map wubs less retardedly than techs

[@anomyymi0108]

Torilla tavataan

[@jaakkohintsala2597]

kyllä

[@iLiokardo]

I don't like Camellias music that much *_APHEX TWIN_*

[@sunambassador]

unplayable map was fced

[@ngthienan]

unFCable

[@blutwo8276]

Overhyped means that the map didn't deserve the hype. So it is technically is criticism on the map. edit) wow misspelled criticism. but who cares about a random comment?

[@surite2573]

Professionals mapping is horrible and cancerous, yet fun to play and beautiful at the same time.

[@GRANDMAST3R]

But in what way is it horrible and cancerous, where are the standards that labels his kind of mapping as horrible or cancerous? Just asking uwu

[@surite2573]

@@GRANDMAST3R Mainly the ridiculous fast sliders with a weird shape that are impossible for a sight-read run.

[@GRANDMAST3R]

Well, sight reading shouldn't be a must have in mapping. And i dont really know any maps that are hard to sightread other than maps mapped to be un-fc-able and shitmaps. Take cookiezi for example, he does alot of sightread runs, didnt he fc that one crazy technical map sightread? Or that other one? And another one?

[@surite2573]

@@GRANDMAST3R Yes but for the most part the community prefers simplistic patterns that are easy to play, thus pboxs style of mapping is regarded as cancerous. As for Cookiezi well I mean there's nothing he can't do.

[@GRANDMAST3R]

But thats where a problem occurs, if we continue doing simplistic things that are easy to play, we are eventually going to run out of original ideas. Moreover, what about the veterans, the experienced players?

[@thunderjolt69]

Hollow Wings is a girl?

[@nicholascho64]

Nope, it's a joke

[@liliancore_]

she is yes

[@faake2618]

@@nicholascho64 She has a beatmap with selfmade vocals

[@frane4988]

Can you link the map ?

[@liliancore_]

@@frane4988 osu.ppy.sh/s/496930

[@Shimi433]

Wait, Hollow Wings is a she?

[@momo-ts7sm]

like wut?!?!?!?

[@allice4364]

Wwwwwuuuuutttt!???!!??

[@bunshine]

ProfessionalBox, you completely failed to understand various aspects about what makes your Atomosphere map get criticized so much. "unplayability" may be a broad term, but its definitely not magical fairy dust people use to describe thing they dont like. Its a solid term grounded in common sense and game design understanding. Playability, as a mapper should know, at the higher levels of play, comes from the consistency of a map's patterns and ways that it expresses simillar sections of music. osu! is a rhythm game, as you know, so it would make sense that the same sound would be played in a simillar way. Your map (probably because of trying to incorporate too many styles at the same time) completely fails this, and in turn makes it unplayable to all but the very best. When it comes to why the map got popular, there are also a few things you got wrong: first of all, a map that is "overhyped", just like a game that is overhyped, means that it failed to correspond to the players' expectations. Therefore, considering that you spammed your twitter and other streams with it, and that alot of people said it didnt meet their expectations... it means that the map wasnt *good enough* for how much importance you gave it. This, by consequence, means that this is a valid criticism towards the map, and therefore should not be ignored "because it isnt even related". Also the various inconsistencies and bad placements and objects that dont line up to the beat youre trying to map them to (which i pointed out when you were going into the ranking process) are parts of why it is so bad and such a shitty map to play thanks for coming to my TED talk

[@allice4364]

Didn't ask B) B) B)