osu!mapping: timing

[@TheJor27]

this just scared me further away form mapping

[@maulanamuhammad7633]

you can just leave it to other people :x

[@357MAGNUMSNIPER]

If it's the multi-BPM thing that scared you, don't worry, it's actually not too common and most songs follow a single static BPM as long as the song's not too old (80's or early 90's etc.) lol

[@boundforward9469]

Lot's of music lack a fluctuating BPM. Also, like getting better at the game, you can also just map lots and get better at mapping.

[@manokumo7121]

just copy it from another map of the song

[@signlessmouse]

yes.

[@abjoern]

6:48 "trust me, I know music" 6:55 "trust me, I am music" lol

[@volchonokilliR]

when I saw "am" felt that it was somehow wrong, but thought that it's just my bad memory lol... Thanks for noticing it

[@Iyuselic]

I need a video about pishifat saying 1 2 3 4 for an hour.

[@sandro_alexsandro3397]

@Isaac Sandoval what bpm though

[@maxxy2869]

@@sandro_alexsandro3397 222 bpm

[@ProfessionalBox]

my internet is really bad so I can't watch the video can i just leave a timing request? thanks

[@topa9487]

Lmao

[@stirfry9935]

bruh

[@themelancholyofgay3543]

lmao

[@sgz1555]

no

[@Robobotic]

Before watching the video, I just wanna say that i love you.

[@pishifat]

oh.

[@goinkosu]

pishi you are my idol

[@ryoss9053]

I really wish Osu! would add a "Learn how to map" Section with your videos, since they're are top quality and giving you as much info as you need to start mapping.

[@Haganenno121]

A few tips that helped me personally: 1. If you are unsure about the BPM and it's a single BPM map, check the later stages of the song where a wrong BPM becomes distorted enough for you to notice. 2. If you time by tapping, do it at a place of a song where the beat is the most noticable (usually the chorus), this way you will hear it better.

[@sleepy33333]

i could watch you timing a beatmap for hours. plsuploada5hvideoofpuretimingandyoutalking

[@pishifat]

i've got something longer coming soon

[@Deforser]

pishifat please be a dick pic :)

[@AWESOMEDUDE2311]

I am so thankful to our mappers...the stuff they form, what they go through to give us such jelly is just amazing

[@gawain855]

Thank you so much for making this video series! It's really helped me get started with mapping (and I'll probably reference some specifics of what you said later on as I develop my own mapping style). You've given all the detail needed while not being overbearing on what you think a map should be leaving extreme beginner mappers the freedom to develop their own style without being too influenced by your ideals. Thanks again!

[@flamey7076]

Now I know for sure... I should stay away from mapping :/

[@pishifat]

i'd do the same

[@yumeiraosu]

@@pishifat ur the hero of mapping

[@warenwakolj]

@@yumeiraosu pls no stop its a joke

[@yumeiraosu]

@@warenwakolj i know right

[@warenwakolj]

@@yumeiraosu but why you say that doe

[@jabloko992]

3:36 'so most often, you won't have to change it' , so then imagine my shock as a brand new mapper who managed to accidentally pick a 3/4 song for his first map XD.

[@forna4090]

I want to hear you sing now, (more that before though) that 1-2-3-4 rap was dope

[@forna4090]

than*

[@Kynan383]

Charles445 the god of timing Kreygasm Awesome video dude, it will definitely help a lot of mappers ! Edit: IMO you shouldn't recommend that at 13:44 because score v2 WILL become the norm at some point (as it should have been since the start tbh but that's not the subject here). That would just make all these cases annoying to play in the future :/

[@357MAGNUMSNIPER]

Right now it's a very relevant part of mapping as a way to make maps with odd timing more playable, so it's good to mention it anyway. It's one of the major counterarguments against Score V2 as it would make the game far more frustrating, unfair and imbalanced to play, so I don't think they're actually going to pull through with it.

[@Kynan383]

How hard is it to make a slider END on that weird timing rather than making it start on it though ? Also if score v2 wasn't implemented simply because of that, it would be pretty freaking dumb if you ask me, this "rhythm game" already has a scoring and ranking system that doesn't reflect the rhythm part AT ALL, so not making it a better rhythm game (by making people focus more on acc through making sliderstarts acc able) on top of that would be even dumber tbh.

[@357MAGNUMSNIPER]

There is a huge difference between having a slider *end* on a beat vs start on it. This is because the former isn't clickable but the latter is. This gives feedback to the player and is a very important part of music emphasis through rhythm choices. i.e. if there is a strong vocal sound, you'd rather click on it than let go of a button when that sound comes up. Also, I don't see how the scoring and ranking system of a game has anything to do with the gameplay mechanics that are there to emphasize music, making it a rhythm game in the first place. lol

[@Kynan383]

357MAGNUMSNIPER My point is that since it's supposed to be rhythm game, the player is supposed to focus on the song and notice when there's a difference in rhythm, so wether it's hard to notice or not, it's all on the player. There is no reason to keep sliders as dumb as they are right now as it makes no sense for a RHYTHM game. Having one of the two objects that the game is made of not count accuracy at all is stupid as hell. (I'm obviously not counting spinners as an object of the game here, but if you want that would make 2/3 of the games objects not having hit windows xd). About the part of the scoring : the game is already way too focus on hitting stuff and not missing than hitting stuff accurately, which again, is stupid in a rhythm game. So enforcing score v2 would actually help fix that.

[@357MAGNUMSNIPER]

I think that would end up making the game more imbalanced. The vast majority of people would only play maps with a clear and easy rhythm, and maps with anything complex rhythm-wise would be ignored by most people because nobody likes getting 100s thanks to some calm vocal part in the beginning that's stupidly hard to acc compared to the rest of the whole song/map. This might also make more mappers focus on mapping songs with clear rhythm and the amount of maps, with anything stupidly hard to acc because of Score V2, could decrease. Either that, or they'd have to try balancing the hard-to-acc parts by lowering Overall Difficulty, however that would make more rhythmically simple parts of the map way too easy in comparison. Although my conception of the mapping community in general is that they just map songs they like with no focus on the popularity of the map, there are still many mappers who value that aspect of mapping, which can also affect their want to rank a map. Although sliders not being accable might feel dumb for a rhythm game, the game still supports the rhythm game aspect in many other ways, and the way sliders currently work have established a part of the game's core gameplay and mapping mechanics, and a lot of stuff has been built relying on those mechanics. I don't see a reason to destroy that whole mechanic for the sake of "making it a better *rhythm* game" when doing so basically makes it a worse rhythm *game*.

[@OzzyOzrock]

good vid pisherino

[@warfu_]

My longest beatmap timed is November Rain (Guns N' Roses), 9 minutes, over 100 Timing Points, it's aaaaalmost perfect.

[@Koubles]

Watching this is making the timing of my first map 1000x easier (and 100x longer). Thanks, man!! :)

[@JR-zd2dw]

Thanks for all your effort in making these videos, it really helped me a lot. I'm just at the beginning of mapping but these make it some much more easy to get into the zone. Appreciated!

[@blckboxx]

You should get hired by osu! you gotta get that partnership.

[@HallidayASR]

He is already a BN and a Osu! Contributor.

[@zoruauser]

qat*

[@blckboxx]

O shit that's sick i didn't know.

[@riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii]

Lol

[@TheDireDay]

Hell yeah. I've been waiting for this one. It all fine and easy when the bpm is somewhat constant or changes at obvious times. I've found it very difficult to find the right bpm for stuff like William Tell Overture even though they clearly must use metronome in order to synchronize the entire orchestra

[@huuishuu]

Watching this made me realise that I got the timing wrong on some of my maps. Guess I'll need to do a re-check.

[@ChekitoChannel]

huu you should've asked me for help LUUL (im Meg on ripple)

[@Haganenno121]

7:52 new miss sound hype

[@triviajon]

""for the musically inclined people still cringing at my incorrect definition for time signatures"" winner

[@thatoneguy2274]

i feel the best solution for weird signatures like 17/8 is to set it to 17/4 and double the bpm. same idea could be done with any other. divide bpm by 4 times newnumber (in this case 8). 12/6 would be 8/4 x 1.5 so 8/4 at 150% bpm. the metronome downbeat might be out of sync though so its best to ignore it

[@PriestRSC]

Hey Pishi, I love your maps. Just wanted to say I passed your RSI Simulator today! Was a lot of fun :D >.> In all seriousness, even as a non-mapper these videos are awesome, and your maps are so much fun to play

[@JecIsBec]

"Let's go more in depth" *runs away screaming*

[@Pomomomo]

idk if it's just me but i don't understand a single thing u explained I'm just gonna stay away from mapping

[@leumas_razalas4427]

Thanks! I have been confused about mapping for a while but I'm more of that type of person that refuses help and believes that they can do it by themselves. This video was very helpful. Once again, thanks!

[@mvcj]

thank you for this video! especially the bits on suite 1, which i believe is the best map based purely on timing, ranked today!

[@ariankagrand4467]

6:38 I don't really know modern music and timing stuff that much, because i play violin which is mainly used in older pieces of music. But i may be wrong when i say that most likely the timing wouldn't change, it would just go to an eighth note instead of a quarter note.

[@AscendedOnOsu]

11:18 when you finally get done timung your variabe bpm map, but you completely fucked up the beginning, and everything was based of the timing point before it

[@deadfirechannel]

Before this video I have been doubting about starting mapping, but now I am sure that I should forget about this.

[@fakeangelofdeath1753]

If your watching the video I hope you can time right now :D I was like when I map, I don't care about, timing, and recently, I reviewed my maps and we're like. What's wrong with me... So I looked pishifat's videos. Take down notes just like on online class, and proceed to mapping. This video helped me a lot and understand what's the basics of mapping, and proceed to other videos, and using pishifat's skin because of that. Thanks, pishifat -FakeAngelOfOsu

[@InvoRL]

10:31 Eyy.... EYY.... *EYYYYY......* *-EYYYYYY-*

[@fungoose2195]

"if you got a situation in which your unsure whether to times it by 2 or not just do whatever feels right." music nerds will agree, Music theory is descriptive not prescriptive, its used to try and explain, do whatever is most useful.

[@marshallroels5472]

I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS TYPE OF VIDEO FOR YEARS

[@jukuromein1990]

Thx for advising the timing stuffs,it helps

[@YeetNation2006]

casually is making my first beatmap, and it has maybe 2 different bpms in different areas or whatever, tis gon be fun

[@westbourner]

the highest point in volume of a sound is called the transient, so you want the note to line up with the transient of a drum if it's delayed/timestretched or something like that

[@hittaren]

Thanks a lot for this amazing tutorial, taught me a BUNCH.

[@oxey_]

Good stuff, I'm going to binge-watch these

[@themelancholyofgay3543]

"Timing is easier than mapping itself" he was right, patience and determination is the key

[@dan2562]

"All you need is the ability to time a single BPM song." Oh yeah, still can't do that.

[@danielyuan9862]

He tells you how to do it in the first part of the video.

[@TheWin475]

just search bpm finder put your downloaded song there and if its low for example 105BPM just double it same with slider velocity just double it or divide it by 2 and BAM!

[@Dymm2454]

Could you please stream, just mapping and chillin.

[@siegpasta]

bump

[@2io.]

Really informative, gj.

[@michael_likes_piccolo]

With music in general, there are a lot of things, especially timing wise things, that aren’t perfectly cut into specific numbers, things like accelerandos, ritardandos, rallatandos, and more music theory mumbo jumbo. I guess what I’m trying to say is when making maps, the song is probably gonna slow down and speed up, especially with vocals and instruments. Just go with the flow!! Also 90% of songs have tempos between 50 and 180, so if you’re getting tempos like 30 or 250, you’re probably accidentally counting eight notes or half notes instead of quarter notes. I HOPE THIS HELPEDDDD!!!!

[@ChekitoChannel]

Not only timing needs patience, mapping in general do too :( , thanks for making this vids i dont need to explain everything to my newbie (at mapping) friends :D

[@condsy]

Thank you for this, seriously thank you.

[@vaarka7534]

Me: "Hey I'm friends with one of those people who supported this video!" *realizes it's not a mutual friendship anymore* *unfriends*

[@pishifat]

r i p

[@mikukobariyoisaplayer]

I Just Realized I Forgot To Add Offset After Completed My Map Now I'm Lazy To Redo That

[@LwL_]

Imo the one thing that can make variable bpm songs harder to time than single/simple multi-bpm songs is that you have to listen to every sound like you're searching for the offset. As you said, on the one hand that's tedious, but I for example struggle with finding offset a lot, I'm never quite sure what's actually right (within ~30 ms usually, but that's quite significant), so I'm not sure on the bpm for very short sections of song either (whereas with longer sections it becomes very obvious after some time). Variable bpm songs also often require decimal bpms for these short sections, which doesn't exactly make things easier.

[@MarbleIris]

Thanks so much, you're a savior!

[@tarantularose]

this was the easiest thing for me to grasp and i'm surprised it's actually this much of an issue it's only annoying when you have a map with constant tempo changes just setting a bpm and offset to an electronic map should take like 2 minutes max

[@IridiumOG]

This was explained way better than osu! Accademy LOL! Thanks a ton for this vid. :D

[@moriwako6338]

Am I the only who uses bpm finder on a particular bpm finder website to leave the bpm spotting to them?

[@IDJSMILE]

I like the audio editor example

[@andybuscus383]

I didn't really understand anything this guy just tried to explain to me, but I'll keep trying anyway. I think more what my problem is, is that I have a fundamental lack of understanding on how to use the editor.

[@crimbolio]

130 and 260 are legit the same thing, it is probably notated as 130 but 260 is the same thing just halftime, so its as if you turned on the 8th note subdivision, so if anyone tells you you are wrong for doubling speed, you literally are not, also best way to find BPM and Offset is by listening to drum beats, piano/synth, and general percussion

[@zlidyh5]

It's supposed to be: 1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 3-2-3-4... Etc. Generally you can recognize it by listening to the rhythm such as the drums or bass. About the 130/260 bpm, it's typically the lower number played with eighth notes or sixteenth notes Triggered by music pleb

[@thepelefant8220]

10:20 me when watching videos from the pishizor channel

[@pishifat]

the true struggle

[@oBUNo]

Just realized I've been doing step one wrong. No wonder the map I was making felt like a 2007 map.

[@ragnarokvii]

I always dreamt of having my pishifat friend to time my weird bpm maps now i have one!

[@All-star_Giga_Gargantuar]

Just find an mp3 to bpm counter. After that, enter the bpm into the song and play the song. Add the placeholder notes while the music is still playing and edit their location and BOOM! Easily done!

[@earliness]

To see if I need to multiply or divide the BPM by 2, I play through the part I may need to change and see if I can find any notes I'd need to use 1/8 with the original BPM. Most of the time this works :)

[@za0za_0]

Hey, since the tedious-ness of variable bpm song mapping was addressed in the video, it made me remember chart editors for games like guitar hero 3. For example, Moonscraper (the most preferred and updated chart editor for these games) recently got an update in which charting (mapping for gh3) is handled much better - with click and drag timing points and the already existing option of a waveform view. Things like these just make me more hyped for osu!lazer and more disappointed with the current osu! editor, given the fact many flaws and artifacts have carried over from early development days.

[@yuzo4298]

que voz boa cara, mds. admita.

[@Binglesquirk]

thanks now i may be able to map lostwave

[@wcz2891]

Nice you just made timing seem way more complicated ty.

[@PigFishYT]

the only thing i know is that the map i made is completely wrong timed, and i didnt understand anything :D how did u even find it that specific at 2:30?

[@nyan5000]

by listening to the song, and figuring out if the metronome beats are coming early or later then in the actual song

[@SamRuggerio]

"I don't like saying these numbers" Best thing I've heard all week.

[@tearstone8231]

"Map simple songs, for both of our six." - Pishifat

[@scarletevans4474]

Check out this: -> osu.ppy.sh/b/962240 Last diff with +HD,HR,DT. Not hard to FC, but acc is... well, you will understand after playing it and trying in editor uwu

[@isellgimbap]

I really have a problem in timing, especially for the song believer romy wave cover remix. I can't seem to find the proper bpm. It starts with a good timing at first but as the song progresses the timing goes off so much. idk how to solve this

[@wqsted9988]

what have you done to my brain... it's melting...

[@freezinganimenz7835]

Thank you, now to time maps correctly

[@anaacosta2093]

holy shit thank you so muUCHH

[@JeXuSx]

La paciencia es la clave del exito

[@vlaid3507]

Pishi, I got another idea, it's player emphasis or a player thought of a beatmap. I think you did something like it but I think it's a little different

[@pishifat]

not sure what you mean

[@vlaid3507]

pishifat it's supposed to be someone opinion a beatmap

[@tearstone8231]

Still don't know how offset works. But I get to hear pishi's voice, which is great.

[@tearstone8231]

Okay now I'm having problems with BPM... Great.

[@tomerkandel5824]

Offset is just when the metronome starts. Click the right button, it starts later, click the left button and it starts earlier. If 25% confuses try listening on 50%

[@shine8704]

I dont know nothing about music and osu mapping is the only music related thing that i enjoy, but i still dont understand how to properly time a song

[@museifu3419]

"You need PATIENCE" Well i guess mapping isnt for me

[@chainpullz]

Red lines before the first downbeat should be a full measure before the first downbeat silly (using negative offset if needed). It's a metronome not a conductor's baton. You start a metronome and let it tick for a measure or two to give you the timing and for a number of various other reasons. osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4983245 Metronome resets seem a bit weird but maybe that's just because I'm used to classical music where there is pretty much always an explicit time signature change to make things continuous. Thoughts on mapping 6/8 time signatures in 2/4 (by way of notepad edit) using 1/6 ticks since this is typically conducted/counted in 2?

[@notforvideoschannel]

Could be the song with 4/4 (common) and 3/4 (waltz) tempos in the same song? How to get know about all other tempos except 4/4?

[@michaelaigner8215]

It is possible, but very unconventional. If the songs rythm translates into 3/4 you can normaly hear it quite well. It feels slower and a bit "jumpy" (like in a walz). In his example for a 3/4 at 3:50 it is actually a 6/8. You can hear that one easily by the drums in the backround. But normaly everything other than 4/4 and 3/4 will be hard to hear.

[@akeigo]

Yellow there!

[@Thingie64]

Have you ever thought of recording yourself making a beatmap and showing what went through your mind in making it afterwards :3

[@Anshee]

I've done that in the past, but I realized that the video was far too tedious and repetitive to watch, so I scrapped it :( EDIT: I'm Shiro

[@pishifat]

my first mapping video talks about that

[@goinkosu]

6:48 why did you change it from i know music to i am music?

[@pishifat]

the deetz lore

[@macmac3678]

this saved my life

[@littlepenn1646]

so helpful, ty

[@PakieVSRG]

for me, to find the bpm i just put the mp3 into a mp3 to bpm site, its usually pretty good

[@ItsJbirdJustin1]

Even though I don't care for osu, I love the commentaries.

[@HafizAkiyama]

i've timed bohemian rhapsody before for my mapset (now it's ded coz no motivation to map lol) and damn it was tedious as f... but i had fun doing it coz i liked the song... plus i have a "unofficial" music sheet so that the timing process would be much easier to be done imo single bpm songs ftw o/

[@josephpreligeraiv6773]

One of my favorite song called "virtue and vice" it's bpm is very fast even no one can even make it ranked. I'm sure my virtue and vice beatmap will never be ranked cuz 205 bpm is not enough

[@blaumacherxy]

EASY TO UNDERSTAND OKAY

[@jenbooob]

Yeah I think I'll stick with charting songs on clone hero kthx

[@antonio-uz1uf]

When I TRY to time, my beatmap looks nothing but absolute garbage

[@beamaxed9079]

When you were talking about how mappers handle unexpected timing changes, and how they use sliders to make the timing change play naturally, do map pool selectors take these things into account assuming said tournament is scorev2? In regards to maps using the start of a slider instead of using the end of one

[@pishifat]

no idea. i've never been a map pool selector

[@Nudgarrobot]

All of this is just another reason I dislike ScoreV2. Mappers intentionally set their maps up with slider leniency in mind, and removing that from the equation makes the game just that much less consistent.

[@beamaxed9079]

pishifat if sliders fulfill this purpose of making maps play nicer during otherwise awkward sections, the existence of the score v2 slider accuracy seems silly

[@firegen7458]

good vid

[@jeffreyzhuang2396]

How do I make sliders go at different speeds? Isn't that a timing issue? It'd be great to know.

[@rlaouse]

Slider velocity. The green things underneath. Add new timing and it'll show green.

[@mientjesanimations627]

Question? Are u the guy from the osu toturial? If not, u sound sound so similar to the toturial guy

[@rlaouse]

He is