Pitfalls of Little Mac in Super Smash Bros: What Went Wrong?

[@Blizzard91]

If you ever want to shit on Mac just rememeber that he cannonically beat Mike Tyson in his prime. One of the hardest bosses in video game history.

[@ZachHonest]

Facts, he did do that.

[@susiehaltmann3342]

But only moves one inch up when recovering

[@Appletank8]

Ah, but remember Mike Tyson didn't know how to jump

[@farewell418]

@@susiehaltmann3342he’s quick on the ground, not the air. I guess they kept that quote to heart.

[@susiehaltmann3342]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@farewell418yes but was jumping allowed in boxing? No. Also no grabbing is allowed. Mac is shit. He will always be shit no matter what. Mac is such a bizarre, interesting, and complete failure of a character in almost every way. That he’s ironically hype. Like when Mac does that down air tech for recovering, that shit is more hype than Falcon Knee

[@TheYellowBaneOfGhosts]

5:26 There’s a handsome fellow!

[@leeeroyjenkins555]

Agreed

[@SuperMuskett]

Me as a Mac main: "Shhh, It's okay, the scary youtuber can't hurt you."

[@eslamvszombies1713]

If Little Mac got a better Air mobility, he would become Air Mac or an easy Kazuya before Kazyua exist.

[@zerick3]

Bro still needs actual aerials

[@ImCookieSparx]

@@zerick3he doesn’t need “actual aerials” if he has air speed to actually combo with weak moves.

[@0nion_Rings]

​@@ImCookieSparx having better air speed wouldn't help if his air moves physically cannot combo.

[@FerousFolly]

@@0nion_Rings nair and uair can combo with the use of platforms and uptilt (and dtilt in a few cases), but it's pretty niche and relies on knowing your combo percent ranges really well. fair can work as well but only in extremely niche cases and primarily as a (again very niche) mixup.

[@ImCookieSparx]

@@0nion_Rings they can combo actually.

[@SSJPENGUIN]

I'll never forgive Nintendo for removing Perfect Pivots It was such a fun/stylish movement option

[@115zombies935]

That’s why I like HDR, it brings back all the fun stuff like that to ultimate.

[@SSJPENGUIN]

@@115zombies935 I didn't realise perfect pivots were in HDR! I'm more interested in trying it now!

[@King_of_the_Shrooms]

I really like Little-Macs design. It just makes sense to give him worse Aireals and better ground game. That’s how boxing works. Or did you ever see a Boxer Cloud-Up-Air juggle their opponent?

[@nicofire31]

Do you really think being a only ground-based fighter works in a game where you die from being knocked off a floating stage is a good idea?

[@King_of_the_Shrooms]

No, but I like the concept. It's a very cool and unique idea, that's why i personally like Little Mac. I am not thinking about competition or Balance, I just like the Concept of a Boxer..tho yeah, a PLATTFORM-Fighter is not won on the ground. And look at Steve. He's building his own stage.@@nicofire31

[@115zombies935]

Did you ever see a potted plant cloud-up-air juggle their opponent either?

[@orangeslash1667]

@@nicofire31 That's because you can't afford to make mistakes, it's only when you suffer too much damage that you get knocked off stage, so don't get hit too much. It's like Punch Out, when fighting the harder bosses a couple mistakes is enough to lose. In return Mac has super armor in some of his attacks, his tilts are pretty strong, his counter has pretty good range, a KO punch, and finally his speed allows him to both run away and rush down opponents. Mac can punish super hard but he can also be punished super hard. A true example of an extremely high risk high reward character. So how do you not make mistakes, be patient. Some characters are not meant to play like everyone else.

[@dhans9662]

@@115zombies935 Does that potted plant cloud-up-air juggle their opponent in the first place? Exactly, so shut up

[@N12015]

The worst part is that he isn't even that absurd in the ground. Kazuya has clearly a better ground game, while Terry and the Shotos have roughly the same power. The lack of grab game on a grounded character is just ridiculous, and so is the anti-air.

[@orangeslash1667]

@gargator4888 That's because you can't afford to make mistakes, it's only when you suffer too much damage that you get knocked off stage, so don't get hit too much. It's like Punch Out, when fighting the harder bosses a couple mistakes is enough to lose. In return Mac has super armor in some of his attacks, his tilts are pretty strong, his counter has pretty good range, a KO punch, and finally his speed allows him to both run away and rush down opponents. Mac can punish super hard but he can also be punished super hard. A true example of an extremely high risk high reward character. So how do you not make mistakes, be patient. Some characters are not meant to play like everyone else.

[@SSJPENGUIN]

I love Mac in Project M Remix because I've always felt he'd benefit greatly from higher gravity I hope Greninja is added to because that character would be crazy with edge cancels + wave lands etc

[@Monhamd1000]

Little Mac is done dirty outside his game.

[@FL-uj7cs]

I find it annoying that they create these really unique concepts for characters without actually thinking things through all the way to viability. None of his ground abilities should have been nerfed. Much greater weight (boxers are muscular and heavy) might help, make it so that he's hard to throw very far. Metal Mario lite.

[@PaperGraysterYT]

I don’t think him being a heavy would make sense as he’s canonically a lightweight boxer at 107 pounds

[@FL-uj7cs]

@@PaperGraysterYT Oh, well that's tragic lol. Could they just take creative liberties for viability sake anyways like they have with the sizes of Kirby and Ridley? 😂

[@arch4ngel]

@@FL-uj7cs not to mention the fact that Ridley is lighter than Samus in ultimate for some reason

[@FL-uj7cs]

@@arch4ngel sometimes I think Nintendo just doesn't want certain characters to be viable. Zelda for example.

[@PaperGraysterYT]

@@FL-uj7cs unfortunately probably not mac will probably stay like this since ganon has been a falcon clone for almost 22 years

[@Nikkerman]

I just think that Little Mac should have some sort of a grab game, grabbing despite what people might initially think is actually common in boxing and I think he should have some sort of extra long grab hold to get pummels that others can't with how mash works, and he should be given a kill throw and combo throw.

[@NaughtyPigMario]

he has down throw and back throw?

[@0nion_Rings]

​@NaughtyPigMario both of those are pretty bad at that though.

[@ssctiyo4735]

The very least they can do is buff his grab startup and range so he has more variety to his shield pressure, since his 2 shield pressure tool that i know (Down angled FSmash and DTilt) is good but not enough to compensate character design, having a good grab is whats missing in Mac's ground game as his Shield pressure isnt the best and it kinda held him back.

[@FinalArcanen]

Needs to be something in his kit to encourage counterplay to the ledge camping, throw doc's chocolate at em, mac. I dunno

[@amb3rrif1c]

mac being worse in the air than on the ground makes sense but they shouldnt have taken it as far as they did lol smash has a lot of action going on in the air and its been that way since the start. so making mac completely inept in the air instead of just not that good is almost a death sentence. theres a mod called ultimate s that made changes to mac i rly enjoy bc it reworks his aerial functionality in general. his functionality on the ground doesn't change much but it still makes him usable in the air and i love that! its what the guy deserves

[@emilyharrison5109]

Little Mac is like Diet Kazuya

[@bigbangbot-SuperSqank]

Smash 4 Little Mac’s journey in the meta is most comparable to K Roll in Ultimate I’d say. Both characters were highly hyped up and popular in the early meta’s of both games even though in reality, they sucked. This early hype resulted in them being nerfed in both game’s first major patch despite already being rather weak characters. This was definitely puzzling as people were realising that those characters weren’t as good as initially perceived (and in hindsight, it’s even more puzzling). Both characters would later get buffed in later patches (moreso K Roll than S4 Little Mac) but even after the buffs, they still remained as bad characters. History really does repeat itself.

[@590488]

I find it funny that bad players screaming that mac was broken in the 3ds days got this character nerfed to the ground

[@coltoncusimano5460]

I went to a CEO for smash 4 back in the day, and camped out this little Mac in my bracket as meta knight on the town and city platforms lol it was so funny, and he was so mad at the end of the set he shook my hand super hard. Then I got cheesed by a corrin and died at like 30 to tipper pin with rage......

[@zaden9009]

Honestly, I think he needs a better ground game. All the FGC characters have a better kit then him on the ground + good aerials, and from showcases Nintendo consider him as their fighting game character. I think it would be cool and fitting that he could cancel his moves with other moves like he does in Punch Out!!. In his games, besides predicting the moves, the opponents have a weaknesses to specific attacks and/or combinations.

[@scudjoples]

Yo remember that time in punch-out when little mac had super armor and hit harder than everyone he was up against?

[@MarioGamer180]

Omg Yeah! Lol but do you remember that one time when in the F-Zero games where Captain Falcon got out of his Blue Falcon and Falcon Punched people? or that one other time when in StarFox when he got out of his arwing, Fox McCloud did his signature move the FireFox to get back on to the Greatfox?

[@CarzoxPlayz]

So sorry for posting that this on KZbin, I can’t afford Parton, but Thanks for posting this on here 😊

[@FerousFolly]

what on earth is this "jab is a good combo starter" trollop

[@thepooroldsoul8179]

Remember when Little Mac was the worst character in Ultimate back in the early days of it.

[@thegam3rcube686]

Tbh he’s still worst than Ganon in my opinion

[@StrikerElite923]

I have been trying to find ways for him to be better for years, but I did figure out a few things myself of what I want buffed for him personally, firstly I'd be ok with KO Punch killing at 100%, but still does massive damage, and no super armor for a tradeoff of having the FGC character's move cancel, just to his jab and tilts that can go into each other and jumping, but only if it hits or on shield, His aerials should still be weak, but the hitboxes should be bigger so he can air combo a bit since they are still fast. I guess make up B go higher and less end lag on side B, mostly fix his rolls because he moves a fair bit first before being intangible and those are the changes I want for him. So I hope this helps.

[@numbcube6729]

I feel to keep the character's ideas intact, the best things for mac would be: Fast, long grab (compared to other brawlers of course) Less end lag on combo starters On-stage side special maybe could have less end lag, or maybe just changed to be a different option. Nuetral B stored? But maybe if it is stored it gets additional start-up time to make it not just an immediate kill. I'd love to see his smash attacks buffed. That's *the* grounded option he has. Make them absurd to compensate. Maybe reduce his weight again if all of this was implemented.

[@omarmendez0402]

Boxers in real life never jump, so it makes sense why Little Max's aerials and recovery are useless.

[@elgameocammando8185]

side b, if doesn't come out all the way he should still get a chance to use it, that's just me tho

[@calsalitra4689]

Honestly, Little Mac existing as he does at all is baffling to me. Punch-Out is about maneuvering around vastly stronger and tougher opponents, whittling them down with comparatively pathetic taps and saving up for devastating star punches. You would imagine that this kind of character in Smash would be heavily combo-oriented, with weak moves and a very strong defensive game. What they actually made was basically fast Ganondorf, with a weak combo game and extremely powerful grounded moves. Some things work out, like his good dodges, KO punch, and being the eternal underdog. I think he absolutely needs a rework. Not because he's weak, Little Mac being weak is fine to me considering the source material. But he should be more like a grounded Shiek than a fast Ganondorf. Besides making him a weak combo-oriented character, I would give him star punch instead of KO punch, in the style of Punch-Out Wii. He can gain stars by dealing damage, requiring a fraction of the effort to get one star and noticeably less effort to get all 3. Maybe even to the point of getting a star in the middle of a combo. Getting hit causes you to lose all stars, but the ease of getting them allows you to gain individual stars and spend them for lessened reward, or hoard them to potentially get an equivalent of the KO punch. I would also make his aerials actual moves, but give all of them (except nair) absolutely horrendous endlag. He ain't no air fighter and this doesn't change that, but he deserves to at least have function aerials.

[@thepillar4313]

In all fairness. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with little mac. I think the only flaw he has is not having a side b after using it once in the air. But everything else I think he’s perfectly fine. Anyone want some let me know.

[@pollo20x6]

Characters like Little Mac just serve as a reminder that Smash was designed around 4 Player Timed Free for Alls and items. Other players could score an early gimp kill on Mac but you gotta catch him and you risk getting punched out. 4 player meta games be a whole other ball game

[@666blaziken]

In hdr, mac's Ariel's are absolutely ridiculous. The bair has a semi spike

[@theangrynerd101]

Little Mac's polarizing moveset will pretty much always be problematic for him in terms of his competitive viability. In a game where excelling in the air almost completely defines the meta, a character with great ground game but terrible air game just can't find much success; his design is fundamentally flawed. His extremes are just too extreme. I like the concept of his design but it doesn't really work. I feel like the best course of action to fix him would be to further strengthen his ground game (because other characters like Ryu, Terry and Kazuya have a better ground game than him) but also give his aerials a bit more utility (but not too much) and slightly buff his recovery but also give him a few more options (like neutral B potentially being used as a recovery tool for some niche situations and up B and side B sending him further). I think there should also be more emphasis on his boxer bait-and-punish playstyle-- I want to see his counter see more usage-- so improving the frame data and knockback + damage scaling on the move would be good I think (early on being more of a damage racking tool, and later on functioning as a kill move). KO Punch generally induces avoidance in the opposing player, but there doesn't seem to be much that can be done about this move. I'm no expert, these are just some ideas I have, because despite all the drawbacks that come with his moveset and playstyle, it's fun to watch Little Mac mains play (one of my friends mains him just because he's a low tier lol).

[@orangeslash1667]

That's because you can't afford to make mistakes, it's only when you suffer too much damage that you get knocked off stage, so don't get hit too much. It's like Punch Out, when fighting the harder bosses a couple mistakes is enough to lose. In return Mac has super armor in some of his attacks, his tilts are pretty strong, his counter has pretty good range, a KO punch, and finally his speed allows him to both run away and rush down opponents. Mac can punish super hard but he can also be punished super hard. A true example of an extremely high risk high reward character. So how do you not make mistakes, be patient. Some characters are not meant to play like everyone else.

[@JustAPrinnyDood]

Solo Mac main here, thank you for this video! I been waiting for it.

[@WreckItRolfe]

His f-air should have gone further when used in the air, to aid recovery.

[@elderfiend6295]

None of these things stop him from being my main.

[@THP22342]

Great video honest

[@jackson4672]

Little Mac becomes much stronger if you play on Super Mario Bros or Hyrule bridge without stage hazards, since there's no way for him to fall off the stage.

[@Kingpharaohgaming]

I think even though Mac is easy to pick up and though he has been hated both even in his own games and in smash I feel like the idea of making an underdog character easy to pick up is just ingenous design choice by Sakurai since in punch out hes a joke/underdog. Overall i still find this dude fun to play (Both in Sm4sh and Ultimate).

[@dyll_pyckle]

As a Mac main, this vid goes hard. Good stuff!

[@Tarzan030]

There are Mac Mains that made Air Mac working

[@ThaArabScarab]

They should just buff his recovery a little bit and nerf his attacks a little bit

[@mateogarmendi1332]

Also how do you play pmex

[@GuillermoMamaYnfante]

In my opinio, to fix little mac I give him the smash 4 side b and a better recovery, but that's a nice video

[@charliereiscott4608]

You said all but theres 2 in the smash games so you mean both

[@danb1809]

#FreeMac #BuffMac

[@JacktheLightningRipper]

I don’t have any arguments in Little Mac’s weaknesses holding him back from being a great competitive character but not only would I argue that he was by no means done dirty when it comes to representing his series but I’d also argue that his ground game being incredible and air game being abysmal was likely the point since boxing isn’t a sport where you jump a bunch. In fact some aerials having quick start ups were likely small assistants to help a boxer who doesn’t do anything that ridiculous compared to other characters in the roster fit into a game that encourages jumping like Smash. I still see a bunch of Little Macs online because he’s a character who can mop up if the player doesn’t give you a moment to think.

[@sbsb7352]

Little Mac More Little Quack, okay sorry

[@SonicTheCutehog]

He somehow got worse in Ultimate

[@michaelsponseller5337]

very glad little mac exist so peanut can exist

[@psiforce8342]

That is the things with Little Mac given what he as designed Remember he started out as an Assist Trophy back in Brawl He's rather gimmicky and one of the characters in Smash who simply aren't really properly going to be designed for Smash (Min Min is another good example) and are better off just being Assist Trophies At least Dark Samus and Isabelle manage to fit well in Smash from Assist Trophies to fully built fighters (although Dark Samus is merely an echo fighter and Isabelle is a Villager semiclone like Ness and Lucas, albeit Isabelle is inferior given how her moveset's designed)

[@dominicmarquis4432]

Im the little mac winner 😅 hes my main, sure arial suck but man.... make come to me and try to send me in the air just for fun

[@NintendoKID-]

im ur first vier