Are We LYING About Allen Iverson?

[@ubereats3047]

I don’t like that Fluent is usually rational but he said that the East wasn’t bad compared to the west especially in comparison to the 2010s. IN 2003 THE PISTONS TOPPED THE CONFERENCE WITH 50 WINS AND THE NETS MADE IT TO THE FINALS WITH 49 WINS WHERE THEY WOULD’VE FINISHED 9TH IN THE WEST

[@Coldskin1]

the lakers had 50 wins in 2003🤣 jazz, suns blazers and jazz had less than 48 wins

[@johnsonbt]

@@Coldskin1 and they where a 5th seed at that.

[@Realest1ne]

@@Coldskin1ut there were multiple 50 win teams and even two 60 win teams in the West that year. And Blazers had actually 50 wins as a 7 seed.

[@Solacethewanderer]

Low cooked with valid statistics and relative comparisons. He may not be 100% with his takes but he was completely right here. The East was balanced, but in mediocrity during this stretch and was arguably the worst since the merger. The whole “stats guy” label is always gonna hinder him in debates like this

[@JBurnz001]

That’s the problem yall rely on statistics because in reality yall weren’t WATCHING the game. The eye test trumps any statistic. If defense was tougher, then stats would suffer. It’s just that simple

[@wano1216]

⁠@@JBurnz001bro that’s why you use relative statistics

[@tommycapone8926]

⁠@@JBurnz001 low used relative stats and we was saying that east was weak for the time period not all time but for that specific time period. And the eye test still doesn’t tell the full story

[@mazzb305]

In 2001 the 7th seed Blazers had 50 wins. Only 3 teams in the East won 50+ games. The best team in the East (76ers) would’ve arguably been the 4th best team, at best, in the West.

[@Theterminato2013]

Actually the Sixers would’ve been the 3rd seed in the West because they tied with the Lakers for the 2nd best record in the League(56-26).

[@KobaniacMinded]

Again we talking about a 5'10 sg leading the league in scoring 4 times in a league full of Supreme athletes and LITERAL GIANTS with physical defense and zone defense. He led a team full of DEFENDERS to the nba finals. And to the dummies saying we define him by 1 year that's dumb, his whole career was a show of HEART, DETERMINATION and pure WILL that year just sums up who he was. Give him Shaq, KG, Cwebb in they primes and he'd be looked at right under kobe. Love harden but he hasn't shown any of that.

[@judahmourneth3211]

Give me a stat on heart and determination

[@KobaniacMinded]

@@judahmourneth3211 if you never hooped just say that... I thought we praise MJ and Kobe for heart n determination now you say "show me a stat"🤓

[@davidheard6356]

Name another year in which he had the same amount a team success than this year 😂

[@KobaniacMinded]

@@davidheard6356 name a year in which the team brought him in star players(kobe) or he went and formed a big 3(bron) or joined the best team in the league(Kd), or they drafted a hof sidekick(Mj)

[@KobaniacMinded]

@@darnellwilliams8783 nah fr they gotta be 12 or something 🤣

[@BOSZAY]

Allen Iverson was an iconic player, he changed the game as a sub six foot scoring point guard, Possibly the best handles ever and he came with the most unstoppable move we have ever seen.

[@JohnSmith-uw4jp]

Kawhi > Iverson

[@BOSZAY]

@@JohnSmith-uw4jp ninja please. He has a long career to gain traction.

[@orangejuice20133]

There definitely more unguardable moves in nba history 😂

[@danny_daphantom]

@@orangejuice20133 he didn’t have the best handles. He had the best crossover

[@JohnSmith-uw4jp]

@@BOSZAY Kawhi has more Dpoys and finals MVPs than Ai has Conference finals appearances 🤣🤣🤣🤣 in wayyyy less time

[@kingjaydex7464]

So ironic how a lot of Iverson’s fans are all about winning and don’t care about numbers but want to hypocritically praise a finals run against mid level teams in which he ended up losing.

[@DiezelFuel08]

And in reality only had one playoff run. Every other time out in R1

[@rickeyjtv1802]

Soo that gives them the right to over hype james jarden ?

[@TheIcemanthomas]

@@rickeyjtv1802 it’s not an overhype. It’s entirely debatable that harden is a better overall talent. Are most people betting their money on harden? No. I’m personally taking Iverson 10/10 times. And I think he’s far more scalable across eras than harden is. Hardens skillset is fine tuned specifically for this era as opposed to others. But that doesn’t mean he’s not a better overall talent statistically, impact wise, and on paper. I had this same argument with people when they’re ere trying to disregard wade in favor of Iverson. From a historical context harden trumps was overall offensively, but I still think wade is the better option to bet my money on and build a winning team around even tho harden may be the better scorer.

[@fortynights1513]

@@DiezelFuel08He had some second round finishes, but still.

[@Kbtrey4]

there was one point when all western conference playoff teams had 50+ wins that’s all u need to know

[@raferalstonisgoat4457]

i usually dont agree with LOW but he is absolutely right about the eastern conference in the early 2000s. There was about 3 teams worth mentioning

[@fortynights1513]

In 01 specifically it was the Sixers, Bucks, Raptors, and Hornets who all made the second round.

[@legendarywiimaster]

The teams: 76ers 49ers 37-45ers Literally the worst conference of all time, and of course David Stern being the horrible commissioner that he was didn’t get rid of conferences

[@davidheard6356]

I’ll be honest bro back in 2000-2003/2004 everybody knew who ever came out the west was gonna win the finals. AI just making to the finals is seen as ring in most people eyes. And I believe we overrate him to a certain degree. AI was a bucket yes but he took the most shots and was the most inefficient. He got steals because there were good defenders around him. He wasn’t a good passer in which why he moved to the 2. He was a icon but he ain’t better than harden at all. They also interrupt how good that sixers team was behind AI because although they weren’t the best offensively they had: Coach of the year-Larry Brown Defensive player of they year- Dikembe Sixth man of the year- Aaron McKie With AI winning MVP

[@gangstagummybear3432]

You can't say he is inefficient if no one is matching his volume and getting a higher efficiency.

[@yokun1885]

@@gangstagummybear3432 I can mention a few names. Stephen Curry, Nikola Jokic, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant. If we use relative true shooting, every person I named was shooting above league efficiency relative to their era and Iverson finished below that. The fact that no one is matching his volume means he is one-dimensional. Yes, he had no one to pass to but that also means he had no semblance of playmaking, something Harden and everyone I mentioned above has in their bag. Steph and Jokic in particular are anomalies when it comes to shooting efficiency but the separator is teammate quality. We have seen Steph and Jokic have shit teammates and their scoring and efficiency didn't drop.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@yokun1885 Yes, league average, Iverson may have been below league average but he was above league average fgas which is the difference, else of we don't say fgas matter, then Steve Nash is better than Kobe

[@davidheard6356]

@@gangstagummybear3432 I can say he’s inefficient because others didn’t take as many shots as him and averaged close to, just as many, or sometimes more point then he did like throughout his prime like MJ, Kobe, TMAC, VC, Melo, Bron, and Dwade. he’s also inefficient because others players such as Kobe, VC, TMAC, and MJ took close to the same amount as shots as AI and was more efficient than him during AI’s prime.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@yokun1885 lol the only player you named in the shooting guard position was Kobe, I see a bunch of dunkers and people that 3s helped bolster their numbers, the only player in your list with a shot selection anywhere near Iverson's was Kobe, and he had Shaq for 8 seasons, and played 6 years of his career at least, in the post 00s soft spacing era, and only had like 2% higher fg% with less volume.

[@DoubleDub2]

I think we elevate AI’s career because of how much love he gets from our generation. he was the coolest NBA player. everyone wanted cornrows but it’s true, he only had 1 successful season technically by getting to the finals once ppl criticize other players constantly for not winning.

[@SBCSports442]

Harden never made the finals as the main player

[@PNL1992]

@@SBCSports442 AI wouldn’t have either if he played in the West

[@rapgodreloaded9259]

AI had a easier path in his career than Harden, Lebron, Shaq, Duncan and others.

[@fortynights1513]

AI was not bad outside of 01, but that was the only time he made a conference final. He certainly isn’t as fondly remembered without the finals performance, but he wasn’t bad when you look back at it.

[@JBurnz001]

@@PNL1992if AI was in the west, using your logic, he’d be on a way better team meaning he would most likely win a chip.

[@nbarealtalker]

I’m still waiting for someone to show me a player that played with the teams Iverson played with that accomplished more. Or even as much.

[@davidheard6356]

Also their point on the early 2000s eastern conference was horrible, why do think their were multiple 45-50 win teams in that era. Not because they was parity, but because they were mid asf. Ain’t no way in hell any team from 2000-2003 was coming out the East to beat the Lakers or Spurs. The East got more competitive when the pistons broke through, Lebron/Wade/Howard got drafted, Indiana re-upped and got better, and KG/Ray went to Boston towards middle and end of the early 2000s.

[@cloudunderweather9554]

yeah yeah, but were they TRASH though? Mid does not sound like trash to me.

[@davidheard6356]

@@cloudunderweather9554 like the point LOW made, when you compare that early 2000s East teams towards multiple eras of East teams (with context of course) yes they’re trash 😂.

[@RobinXlone]

@@davidheard6356 but why are u even comparing it to other eras tho?

[@qupope6955]

@@RobinXlone what do we compare it to then??? The premier league????? The NHL???NFL???😭😭😭😭

[@davidheard6356]

@@RobinXlone I’m comparing it to debunk the premise of their argument of how AI had to beat premier teams to reach it to the nba finals. And I get it you don’t chose who you play or who is in your conference. But I’m not gonna call you a world beater. If your team the MVP, DPOY, 6th man of the year, and COY while having the best team/ 1 seed in the East. When you have all of that you’re supposed to make the nba finals.

[@Dman4901]

OG brought up a good point….. a lot of teams back then played different….. now all teams play the same 😢

[@TsoDrag]

Its the lack of skills essentially why be great at one thing if you can be good at everything and cover all of your weakness due to versatility and the common meta in the 2000s is iso ball

[@deetheoriginal3117]

AI and Harden is interchangeable in the all time shooting guard list but all I know is that dwade is 3rd🤷🏿‍♂️

[@csampion9025]

*2nd*

[@gangstagummybear3432]

Lol

[@JohnSmith-uw4jp]

Jerry West

[@deetheoriginal3117]

@@JohnSmith-uw4jp Dwade is better than Jerry but it's close and also he's a PG

[@xlamb7460]

No they are not Harden is better

[@blacknetsmed]

2000 Playoffs: 1st Round v Hornets- Iverson 25ppg on 38 fg% 46% TS 2nd Round v Pacers- Iverson 26ppg on 38%fg, 47%TS 2002 Playoffs: 1st Round v Celtics- Iverson 30ppg on 38fg% , 51% TS Paul Pierce- 30ppg 45%fg , 60%TS Paul Pierce thoroughly outplayed Allen Iverson in the 1st Round of the '02 Playoffs, but Iverson apparently doesn't choke and steps his game 'up'. Bizarre fans make EXCUSES for Iverson underperformances in the Playoffs, but hold bad moments of Harden in playoffs against him for dear life. People say Iverson never had help. In 2007 playoffs Carmelo average 26.8 ppg on 48%fg, 58%TS against the Spurs while Iverson averaged 22.8ppg on 38%fg, 44%TS.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

Paul Pierce is not only another position from AI, but he was playing alongside Antoine Walker, who was Iversons 20 ppg scoring team mate?

[@gangstagummybear3432]

Yeah nice job bringing up something so late in his career, Harden sitting here getting kicked all over the place with way better players way earlier in his career

[@blacknetsmed]

@@gangstagummybear3432 In the Regular Season, Allen Iverson's Relative True Shooting for his career in the Regular Season was -1.9% TS. Meaning Iverson's overall efficiency was BELOW the league average In playoffs, Allen Iverson bled even more value in the Postseason than in Regular Season. Iverson's defense adjusted True Shooting in the playoffs for his career is -2.4% rTS.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@blacknetsmed Yet more numbers leaving out context being that Iverson had no offensive help in those post seasons, and regular seasons, the ones that brought the bulk of those averages, and doesn't count volume vs any other player you can name that may have higher percentages.

[@shax3535]

@@gangstagummybear3432 He took 27.4 fga how tf do you expect other guys to involve when he wont share the rock?? His playmaking was also average too.

[@GeniusatWork104]

Ticket be killing. I died when he said “Birdman put that brother in the trash can”

[@eugenestaniel]

Low is literally the only sensible guy on this podcast

[@yokun1885]

Fluent and Chill are sensible too but sometimes they love their era too much.

[@eugenestaniel]

​@@yokun1885 yea honestly everyone usually has solid points time to time ticket can as well but he's mainly delusional

[@legendarywiimaster]

@@eugenestanielhe’s also a yapper

[@mdub90650]

The NBA Finals in the early 2000 was always the WCF. Lakers v Blazers Lakers v Spurs Lakers v Kings Spurs v Mavs

[@cultok]

yep

[@Nightmare-we8vm]

I believe Marz's original argument is AI was overrated because people only use one year of his career in comparison to other great players

[@yokun1885]

He recognizes AI as an all time great but he draws the line at James Harden which ruffled a lot of feathers because AI was untouchable during his time but remove the rose tinted lenses called nostalgia, he's not on the tier of guys like James Harden. Harden is despised and disrespected in the NBA community and a dubbed choker so a deity being below a choker really pissed off a lot of people.

[@uglyworldwidw7455]

Most definitely dat argument he made is absolutely right we do overrate AI at times because of that run but then the argument that James harden could do the same thing wit AI team is ridiculous dis man couldn’t get past the warriors or Portland wit all the talent he’s had on his team James has also blown multiple 20 point leads going against the warriors his leadership is horrible the only place he can be trusted in is Houston strip clubs

[@yokun1885]

@@uglyworldwidw7455 bro those Warriors team are way better than AI's path to the Finals lmfaooo

[@uglyworldwidw7455]

@@yokun1885 eh yes and no because when James had cp0 and they were killing the warriors until cp0 got injured and then James kept choking 20 point leads then that one year he had Dwight Howard in his prime and got cooked by the Portland trailblazers

[@uglyworldwidw7455]

@@yokun1885 I can keep going this man track record in the playoffs is worse than AI

[@qupope6955]

So if the East was a good conference when Ai played then you would HAVE to give LeBron that same love no?😭😭😭😭

[@Demarcus925]

Ticket also tryna shot at Bron when he going down 😂

[@chrisjoseph3883]

The 8th seed in the west was the timberwolves with KG 47 wins…. 8th seed in the east was the pacers at 41 wins…. 7 teams in the west had 50 or more wins only 3 in the east…. Those 3 east teams were the 76ers, the bucks and the heat… the 76ers only saw one of those teams en route to the finals… for comparison the lakers who made it out the west faced 50 win teams in every round of the playoffs… and the swept the entire western conference.. that speaks more to the dominance of shaq rather than the strength of the west…

[@kingjaydex7464]

Iverson is one of those players who invokes so many emotional reactions that cause many people to overrate him. He was inferior to Harden because Harden was better at everything. He was a better scorer, rebounder, passer, and the defense is at best a wash.

[@RobinXlone]

a 6'6 sg should be better than someone who is 5'10

[@JG4TheGOAT]

@@RobinXloneand he is.... so what was ur point in saying this

[@RobinXlone]

@@JG4TheGOAT IDK maybe u need to reread or sound out the words or something if ur having trouble comprehending? HE SHOULD BE BETTER THAN HIM AT 6'6 IS THE POINT. do i have to draw it out for u next time?

[@JG4TheGOAT]

@@RobinXlone he is better than him at 6'6 so u sayin he should be means nothing cos he is,so why say he should be,theres no benefit to saying that

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@JG4TheGOAT He isn't better than him at all, he is a bum that benefitted from having much more help than Iverson and flops his way to his goals... literally lol

[@divinethought4808]

It was more parity in the nba, which is why you see records wins and loses. I mean, the best record in the league was 52, and that was utah on the west and 49 for the 76ers.

[@turneryoung905]

Low is the worst. Dood sits at the court all day debating you in between games on your skillset even tho you been playin all day and he’s been missin layups on the side hoop wearin goggles.

[@bjr0467]

Allen Iverson got the most steals in a playoff game in NBA history with 10 in one game against Orlando that's playing defense

[@SkysTheLimit-]

Big boy just looks at the stat sheet and compares. Lol

[@Bukowski30]

So when Shaq gets finals MVP against the "Weak" east it means what versus Kobe in the West closing games? Cuz I hear these guys say Shaq carried Kobe and Shaq earned that finals MVP all of a sudden when the argument is needed to undermine AI the East was weak. But when Bron makes it out it wasn't weak either? Crazy contradictions.

[@divinethought4808]

Exactly 👏🏾

[@Kuroganemk2]

I dunno, 2004 we have an east team winning the championships, 2006 also east, 2008 east, it started getting more competitive.

[@mybestnugget7514]

How does LeBron get full credit for 2007 even though *he played terrible and his team got swept* *But* AI can’t get credit for 2001 even though *he put 40 on Kobe’s head and actually stole a game🤔* If you ask any LeBron fan about 2007 they act like he did something impressive that nobody else could ever pull off lol….. but AI actually did something more impressive just 6 years prior🤔

[@briteslider]

bad take and comparison. Keep studying though

[@thekingofball2341]

because people overrated AI playoff run with that weak eastern conference. He hasn't done anything else to help his team compete other than that year, bad comparison cause LeBron has lead his team to the finals 10x in his career. AI has done that once with terrible field goals percentages and bad eastern conference and he played with Melo and still had no success.

[@trey6581]

They both get credit in my opinion

[@MistahUnknown]

@mybestnugget7514 Iverson led the Sixers team to the Finals consisting of all-NBA player Theo Ratliff whom was also the league leader in blocks per game, perennial all-star Dikembe Mutombo who was Top 5 in blocks per game and league leader in rebounds per game and was the DPOY, "Sixth Man of the Year" Aaron McKie, and 3x championship experienced veteran player in Toni Kukoc. LeBron lost Larry Hughes in the finals due to a foot injury. Hughes played like less than 50 total minutes in the finals. Context matters.

[@legendarywiimaster]

Because LeBron pulled off another carryjob in 2018, but this time against much much better competition, a horrible defensive team (yeah I know LeBron was a terrible defender as well), while also the team having constant roster changes, and before anyone says LeGM, the front office has the final say. LeBron also was much more consistent than in 2007, as he developed his game. He could now shoot much better, had a great fadeaway shot, better handles, and better footwork. Obviously defense in the NBA wasn’t as good in 2007, however it still wasn’t easy to carry a team. Not to mention LeBron played all 82 games that year. AI on the other hand never got that done. Unlike LeBron, AI can’t play off-ball at all. LeBron has been able to play off-ball, as he’s less ball dominant than he was before, with time of possession of ball being around 5.7 minutes a game, compared to that to 2018 where it was 6.7 minutes a game

[@S1LVAW0LF]

What about the 80s west? If were gonna call out lebron for playing in the east and making 9 straight finals or w/e, and day the early 2000s was weak, why dont we say that the magic kareem lakers played in a weak af bum ass west and still went 5-4 vs the eastern teams LOL. We give the lakers credit cause thise 5 rings are definitive, but if were gonna compare, than kobe played in a much tougher west and mike played in a tough east too. The only teams that made it out the west were the trailblazers and the rockets while showtime was there. Trailblazers carried their success into the early 90s and the rockets eventually got chips in 93/94 and 94/95. The west was better in the 90s but around 2000 and since, it was definitely better than the east.

[@joejett5084]

Nobody wants to call it like it is. The league was watered down in the late 80s with all those expansion teams. The bulls were the last team able to build a dynasty and ran stomped the league into a mud hole. That doesn’t take anything away from Jordan but when he left the bulls almost made the finals again. Take the bulls out the east and the west wins every single title. The east been weak.

[@mybestnugget7514]

Yea everybody knows Kobe played in the toughest conference and defensive era of the sport. And he eliminated more 50+ win teams from 2008-2010 than Magic or Bird beat in their entire careers

[@TheGr8-1]

@@mybestnugget7514 I know you’re not trying to make a claim that Kobe was better than Magic or Bird.

[@X02Overdose]

@@joejett5084 Stop it with that bullshit, expansion teams didn’t start showing up till the very LATE 80s to early/mid 90s. Most of them became good teams within the decade too

[@mybestnugget7514]

@@TheGr8-1 it’s not hard bro, he did everything better than Magic except passing, and everything better than Bird in general

[@Cotswolds1913]

In 2001 all top 6 teams in net rating were in the Western Conference. Maybe the word “trash” is too much for some people, but it was either the worst or 2nd worst any conference has ever been post-merger.

[@freshprinceshakur4596]

Overhyping the hell out of James Harden to devalue Allen Iverson 😔

[@Hakeemthabeen888]

* putting respect on a top 5 offensive juggernaut when it comes to the guard position. Not just reducing his career to 4 games

[@judahmourneth3211]

Outside of 2001 he really didn’t do much and for the volume of shots he took, he posted historically bad FG%

[@deetheoriginal3117]

@@judahmourneth3211 did AI have the talent Harden had? no

[@judahmourneth3211]

@@deetheoriginal3117 no but he had enough help and talent. The 06 sixers roster wise was better than the 2001 sixers and he missed the playoffs. Then you go the team route, his individual performances are not that great and he always got outplayed by the opposing player

[@judahmourneth3211]

@@deetheoriginal3117 how about his denver days

[@santana901parker4]

James harden played with Durant twice kyrie and Chris Paul and been to one finals 😂

[@thekingofball2341]

Look at AI competition and look at James Hardens. AI faced a weak eastern conference and Harden's team was literally the best team in the west behind golden state, he took the best team ever assembled to 7 games. If it wasn't for the warriors existing Harden would has at least 1 ring

[@christof8duece]

Not sure where Lo get all this confidence talkin basketball, the shit he says sometimes are soooo wrong it’s just crazy ! No context or the wrong context, just saying shit with great grammar and finding random stats to prove his nonsensical points Sometimes he’s right don’t get me wrong but I just don’t see how we find take these cats serious. Basketball is not a game you just WATCH, if you haven’t coached or played organized basketball it’s hard to take ppl opinion seriously

[@deetheoriginal3117]

Top 5 Shooting Guards Of All Time MJ Kobe Wade Harden/AI the last 2 is interchangeable

[@TheGr8-1]

You forgot Drexler and Jerry West. No way is Harden OR AI better than those two Guys.

[@christiansoldier77]

AI was at least 6 feet and leading the league in scoring isn't impressive when you're only shooting 39%

[@stackntax1308]

I love A.I like we all do what he did for the nba and hip hop culture and how he merged the two the entire nba is in debt to him BUT we literally look at 2001 to define his entire career and he’s been overrated by the general nba community and everyone always says “well he didn’t play with anybody” he literally couldn’t he had Jerry stackhouse and Derrick Coleman early on they couldn’t mesh with A.I he had to be a one man show he didn’t make players better

[@Christian-eq6pq]

@@darnellwilliams8783And Iverson would’ve got swept by the late 2010”s Warriors. What are we doing here?

[@ericwilson1185]

When da overall NBA community said he was overrated doe?

[@ericwilson1185]

@@Christian-eq6pq harden went up against dem warriors niggaz by his doley, keep harden on his 1st team wit sum help, we might be talken bout sum different

[@Hakeemthabeen888]

@@darnellwilliams8783ai was actually a horrible leader lmaoo and looked his best on a team full of cast of . Harden could play with everyone in almost any system. I never seen a gentleman sweep get treated like he had them on the ropes 🤣🤣🙃 harden was probably the only player to make the warriors sweat . 2019 playoffs even with a lesser Chris Paul go watch those games

[@Hakeemthabeen888]

@@jxmmykriminallivescored 30 points in 30 straight games lmaoo

[@ra2186]

02:48 "If I round up he gets 10" So we're just giving out imaginary points now?

[@rioslimeem1280]

Its a average crazy man

[@ra2186]

@RioSlimeEm That's literally not an average and not how averages work. Clearly you failed elementary mathematics. Don't reply to people just to be wrong. It's weird.

[@jacadianpro]

Why doesn’t Ticket show his video anymore?

[@christiansoldier77]

Eastern Conference was the weakest it had ever been before or since

[@donnycash]

The west had all the talent!! most of the top 5-10 were in the west the Eastern teams were more balanced teams the West definitely played a different style more advanced offensive systems with Pop Phil Jackson Rick Aldeman George Karl and Flip Saunders

[@808Castro]

But ticket is wrong tho

[@jarvezzz]

no

[@ubereats3047]

Ticket is wrong in every fucking video he’s just here for clickbait and hot takes

[@trevon444]

Iverson been to conference finals 1 time in his career Harden been 3 times Iverson was voted mvp 1 with same with harden Harden has 3 more seasons getting 2nd in mvp voting Iverson has 0 getting 2nd Harden better shooter, passer,playmaker, 3 point shooter, better free throw shooter taller more versatile defender ( outside of playing passing lanes for steals) Outside of that 1 finals run it’s not really close. Harden been elite at what he does Iverson took Shaq and Kobe to 5 games in the finals Harden took Kevin Durant warriors to a close game 8

[@yokun1885]

Yeah they should've brought up how many times AI was in the Top 3 MVP conversations

[@yokun1885]

@Money Lu Global leading the league in steals =/= good defense Curry and Harden both lead the league in steals at one point. Does that make them good defenders?

[@judahmourneth3211]

@@moneyluglobal6622and harden lead the league in assist and has 7 straight years of 10 assist per game

[@Christian-eq6pq]

Harden should’ve had the first Giannis MVP

[@DreadHeadCarter]

Don’t forget Harden played with way more talent than A.I, which his fans seems to always forget and gets alot of his points from flopping to the freethrow line

[@lex6794]

AI shot 42% field goal, 78% free throw and 31% 3pt for a career. Inefficient, he jacked up shots and it hurt his team when he was cold.

[@asundelgun3487]

Sports are copycat leagues. The reason defense was so strong in the early 2000s is because everyone just seen maybe the greatest defense ever win 3 straight titles while winning a ridiculous amount of regular season games. Those teams just didn't have MJ on it so they weren't as appealing to watch.

[@fortynights1513]

You mean the Lakers of the new millennium?

[@iso2390]

The problem with these debates is that none of these guys are real basketball players except for Ticket.

[@DatBoyBlue91]

It’s not that. They don’t have a great basketball mind. They just talk with opinions instead of looking at the facts. The one thing I like about Ticket is he talks facts sometimes.

[@fullmetal1766]

Iverson is severely overrated but anyone that knows basketball knows he was selfish a terrible teammate and didn't care about winning his mvp season he shot like 40%

[@taichou_tre3919]

Anyone who downplays AI simply wasn’t there

[@Nightmare-we8vm]

Are we really arguing a 47 win team is a good team because they have balanced scoring numbers?

[@Nightmare-we8vm]

Fluent speaking like we're comparing teams all time. It's relative to the rest of the league. The Raptors were not contenders.

[@isotime2857]

Y’all sucking AI off hard and talking bout that 1 WIN “Run for they money” is HILARIOUS

[@markdecaille1341]

The league is not more skill it's more athletic than ever before and rules changes also help

[@bernardjohnson6322]

I WAS WAITING FOR IT! THE TIME THEY WERE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THE EAST GOOD FROM 2000-2012! THE LEASTERN CONFERENCE!

[@ScoutsHonor.]

Iverson reality doesn’t match his mythos. When you dig other gods from the ashes Iverson wasn’t that great or far from Westbrook. Iverson was iconic in his own right but not within anything substantial to brag about.

[@joejett5084]

He was amazing for his time period. That time was hero ball but actually teams won titles and the league was honestly watered down from all the expansion teams. So once star players were on the same team again like the 80s the media overhyped these teams and called them superteams. There was only 22-24 teams in the 80s compared to today. Many supplement star players would be solo like James worthy, trying to win it alone. With less teams guys like iverson, Garnett, and ray Allen would of been drafted to the same team instead of being a hero.

[@ScoutsHonor.]

@@joejett5084 there are players today who still play hero ball if not more. That hasn’t changed. There was only like 5 teams that had hero ball players in Iverson day up until about the rising of Brandon Roy. Today it’s like 15-18. Lol That hasn’t changed. The players today are just more proficient at their craft. What Iverson was doing was a lot of shot jacking. So he needs to be judged correctly.

[@joejett5084]

@@ScoutsHonor. …so iverson wouldn’t be a more efficient player in this league???

[@ScoutsHonor.]

@@joejett5084 absolutely not. He has never shot over 45% in a season in his own day. He would be what Westbrook is on offense. Westbrook has the size but Iverson has a better touch. So who would be better i don’t really know. You decide. But no.

[@joejett5084]

@@ScoutsHonor. iverson was more kyrie than Westbrook….actually nothing like Westbrook

[@TyVick989]

Iverson averaged 36 pts, 6 rebounds and 4 assists against shaq and kobe and scored damn near 50 to give the lakers their only loss in the 01 playoffs. What are we talking about?

[@christiansoldier77]

Pacers were not picked to beat the Bulls

[@MrOmabeast]

Whatever skills whatever you wanna say. But if we’re drafting all time teams and it comes to harden or iverson, a fool would pick harden over Iverson. AI played like a champion every game and always showed up. Gtfo

[@kidtee13]

factually incorrect

[@viewfinder1030]

That’s alot of DJ Khalid “ I’m gonna keep going” for teams that never won it. Sixers Raptors and Bucks…

[@philliprhinehardt6268]

Real talk

[@qualinteranzy7948]

Leadership of A.I😂😂😂😂fluent funny asf

[@Fizzyphafacts]

The play style was just different doesn’t make you trash

[@christiansoldier77]

AI played in a weak era thats why they got to the Finals

[@alucard3374]

James Harden has been surrounded by MULTIPLE top 75 players and hall of famers, and has ONE finals appearance just like AI. He doesnt have the scoring titles, the steals titles and most importantly, AI scored without leading the league in FT's by a country mile like Harden.

[@unspeakablyawesomebros3392]

AI literally averages more free throws and his scoring titles are the most inefficient of all time. Allen inversion is honestly a glorified Michael redd.

[@NothingElseMattersJM]

@@unspeakablyawesomebros3392 AI had the same efficiency numbers as Lebron in 2007-08 while being 3rd in scoring lol.

[@NothingElseMattersJM]

Yea sorry but AI lived at the free throw line. As a matter of fact, it was one of his greatest offensive weapons. Extremely quick, great handle and skilled pull up shooter allowed him to draw a lot of souls. He shot them at a 78% clip which isn’t the best but efficient nonetheless

[@orangejuice20133]

@@NothingElseMattersJM yet he did nothing in the playoffs

[@jimmycharlotin7050]

How does these so called experts don't understand style of play the western conference had always been lit even when michael was in the 90's look at the squad the king with Chris webber, the mavericks with dirk, and the lakers with kobe and shaq so that argument is out the door

[@legendarywiimaster]

Ngl AI’s finals run in 2001 is overrated. Only reason they made the finals was because the refs rigged the ECF against Milwaukee

[@xkid.darkskin5178]

excuses

[@fortynights1513]

Even if it wasn’t, I don’t know if I’d call Milwaukee one of the better teams to make and lose that round.

[@legendarywiimaster]

Let me clarify that I believe that it was impressive, I just think that it gets too much credit

[@fxgaming2570]

One important component that the panel is missing out is that in the early 2000s, the Eastern conference had an extra team. The conferences didn't even up until the mid 2000s when the hornets switched to the west. This means that there were less wins to go around for teams, making their win loss records look worse in comparison to the Western conference. Everybody acknowledges that the West was better but to say that the East was trash is misguided. A better labeling for that time would be that the Eastern conference was more top heavy.

[@tommartyn524]

Harden is more skilled than iverson. That’s non debatable. Iverson had more heart than harden.

[@RobinXlone]

heart matters more than skill. kyrie has the most skills ever, yet has no heart

[@JG4TheGOAT]

@@RobinXlonedraymond has more heart than james harden is he better?

[@yokun1885]

@@RobinXlone HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a stupid thing to say. You know who has the biggest heart in the NBA? Westbrook. You know who's one of the most skilled players today? Jokic. You'd take Russ over Jokic? HAHAHA

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@JG4TheGOAT Not sure, but Harden is unproven outside of the weak 3 point spacing era

[@JG4TheGOAT]

@@gangstagummybear3432 duh noone is proven outside of the eras they played

[@elijahknight5520]

Personally, I just prefer Iverson over Harden. I think they both round out the top 5 Shooting Guards of All-Time, but it comes down to style of play.

[@AdvancedEverything]

I actually dislike all of these dudes, this is why you used to have to go to school for journalism. Because even though pundits can be wrong, these dudes just be baseless.

[@aaronjohnson6622]

A.I. was overrated. He was very talented but the hype around his his rebelliousness and his style silenced most talk surrounding his flaws on the court. Therefore he got/gets the benefit of the doubt for nearly everything. If his team won it was because of him. If his team lost it was because he had no talent surrounding him

[@jonamped16]

I’m tired of the ai disrespect, Low talk is all numbers and stats

[@judahmourneth3211]

So let’s take the numbers and stats away. Now what???

[@jonamped16]

@@judahmourneth3211 everything can’t go of stats and numbers it’s more to it then just that

[@judahmourneth3211]

@@jonamped16 so explain???

[@judahmourneth3211]

@@jonamped16 you’re right, but give me something to believe that a.i is a better basketball player than Harden

[@myopinionhive9676]

It's like slow people arguing a a genius about the color blue

[@anteongoestill8068]

Only 3 players avg over 25 and 6 asst in there career iverson one of them to disrespect iverson when anybody who played against him give him the upmost respect is ridiculous

[@PhamousHipHop]

Iverson is the greatest ever. Jordan is the only one you can argue for. Put any other player on that sixes team and they wouldn't even make the playoffs or cry for help like LeBron does.

[@ifheavenwashuman]

Never thought I'd live to see Allen Iverson slander. I thought Iverson > Harden was just common NBA knowledge.

[@Abbad1579]

🤡🤡

[@tommartyn524]

I’m taking harden over iverson easily. There’s not one thing iverson does better than Harden

[@zackrodriguez7519]

Get out your feelings fanboy, nobody is above criticism

[@deetheoriginal3117]

@@tommartyn524 Wade and AI is better than Harden

[@tommartyn524]

@@deetheoriginal3117 i definitely think wade is. I definitely disagree about iverson. I think AI is extremely overrated

[@E.150]

The AI disrespect is crazy

[@IDoThisNoCAP]

Ya can go back and forth but ya never just talk basketball lol it’s always efficiency and this guy had this hall of famer on this team lol- sad

[@gangstagummybear3432]

Facts

[@yokun1885]

They actually had a really nice discussion when Ticket got kicked out. Ticket makes any debate personal making it infuriating

[@dhruvudayshankar7531]

Efficiency is a part of sport deal with it

[@gangstagummybear3432]

@@dhruvudayshankar7531 It is fine to talk about it, but makes you look dumb if you are talking about it without context, just to keep your narrative strong.

[@brendanlewis943]

Low is strictly a numbers guy

[@raferalstonisgoat4457]

Why is LOW always laughing? So disrespectful.

[@eugenestaniel]

Cause the takes are absurd

[@Coldskin1]

the eastern conference only look trash because the lakers where bascially a super team. western conference and eastern confrence look trash in the 2010s because of lebron's superteams and the warriors.

[@mizzy412]

Kobe averaged 15ppg on 36% vs the pacers LOLOLOLOL BRUH SAID KOBE CLOSED THAT DEAL

[@toureharris3489]

Watch game 4…. Stats don’t show everything

[@TyrekMack]

Low looked stressed 😂

[@lonesoljazangetsu1157]

What dude mean the 2010s the 2010s east ass. They just had miami with bron and the cavs with bron. Celtics had already fallen.

[@robdavis8929]

Anyone who says James harden couldn't have done what ai did is a groupie. Why everyone forget aaron mackie was 6th man of the year and mutumbo was defensive players of the year the same year ai was MVP this revisionist history is getting crazy. So y'all telling me what Allen did that year taking 30 shots play zero defense just play the passing lanes and be ball dominate af James harden couldn't do that?! Y'all be on something forreal ain't no way anyone can say that with a straight fave

[@NothingElseMattersJM]

They were defensive players not offensive players though. They weren’t Embiid, KD , Chris Paul, Westbrook, or Kyrie lol. It’s harder to score when it’s just you who can put the ball in the basket

[@RicardoGonzalez-bn5uu]

From 2000-2009 the west won 7 out of 10 championships…included in those runs were two 4-0 sweeps and two 4-1 series. The East was definitely weak during that time

[@sprucewayne10]

1 season...in which he still made it farther than Harden ever did and basically single handedly took a game from one of the greatest teams of all time.

[@Aubknowball17]

That’s all people can say about AI what else he did outside 01 ?

[@sprucewayne10]

@@Aubknowball17 scoring titles

[@gqprince2]

its not hardens fault his eras lakers were in the same conference as him.

[@2nifty201]

harden would’ve went to the finals but he went 7 games with the greatest team of all time in wcf who would go on to obliterate the cavs but cool

[@lucashufner8890]

as a career harden is UNDENIABLY better

[@lonesoljazangetsu1157]

During the lakers 3 peat and even after that, the convo was that the real championship was the western conference finals, the finals was just a formality. To top it off, those years you guys are soeaking about, if playoffs went by oure records no mstter conferences, only 4 teams would go from the east. The 6-10 would make the playoffs in the nba back the

[@Baselinehangtime8]

It’s good to see iverson get the respect he deserves especially for his 2001 season Iversons 76ers did what no west team could in the postseason which was hand the shaq and Kobe lakers their first and only L So even if the east with prime sam Cassell bucks, Pierce and Walker Celtics, and Vince Carter raptors and t Mac magic Mashburn and b diddy hornets etc… is called weak which it wasn’t, it matters not cuz they did what the west couldn’t do either

[@JBurnz001]

You can tell who wasn’t old enough to watch and remember the 90s and 2000s once they start talking stats. It’s obvious yall didn’t watch the game.

[@ChroniclerOfJudah]

Problem with viewing basketball through basketball reference

[@mimu3510]

If you never saw Iverson at Georgetown or his first years in the NBA. Don't Hate, cause that guy was better than these dudes you consider the best in 2022. Yall don't know what a beast he was. SmH

[@mes98yng22]

To think Allen Iverson legacy would be questioned by a phat troll 20yrs later is crazzy😂

[@mybestnugget7514]

In the 2007 Finals, LeBron averaged 22 points on 42% and his team got swept. Ask any LeBron fan or ESPN analyst, they’ll tell you this was an accomplishment that set LeBron apart from his peers🤣 But when Iverson leads a less talented team to to the championship and *actually wins a game,* for some reason he can’t get credit for that🤣 This alone should show you the media controls the narratives and they control the minds of the viewers. James Harden has literally never played decent in the playoffs before, it’s blasphemous to compare him to AI

[@darrellwilliams9168]

The media praises AI for that run though… him stepping over Lue is one of the most iconic moments in NBA history. Harden gets slandered by the media for his playoff performances every year. I rarely ever hear the media talking about AI other years and how he didn’t get back to the finals and pick apart all his bad playoff games

[@yokun1885]

@@darrellwilliams9168 it just means one thing. Harden is better than AI. The fact that Harden is held to a higher standard while AI doesn't get an inch of criticism putting up the same performance means there is massive gap between the two of them and I have to believe that the man who is held to a lesser standard is the better player? Make it make sense.

[@darrellwilliams9168]

@@yokun1885 yeah if Bron only run to the finals was 2007 that narrative would switched so fast. They would drag that man through the dirt for never getting back to the finals but for AI he gets praised for 1 run and everyone is silent on every other year besides that one so idk why he brought up Bron😂 and Harden definitely gets held to a higher standard than AI

[@mybestnugget7514]

@@darrellwilliams9168 they praised LeBron for it *back then* though. The narrative has always been “LeBron took a team of scrubs to the finals.” They started comparing LeBron to Kobe after that terrible performance. He couldn’t even make basic midrange jumpers back then, Popovich literally just clogged the lane and took him completely out of the series.

[@darrellwilliams9168]

@@mybestnugget7514 AI did too and still do. You brought up that point like AI doesn’t get credit for 01 when he does. That’s a big part of his legacy when people bring up AI that’s one of the first things they bring up to give him praise for so I’m lost. Nobody holds that run against AI he gets credit for it

[@disturbedwaves9505]

I wish ticket went to college 😂 he be saying shit I could say in 2 minutes. He takes 10 💀

[@justmythoughts2269]

The east always was none for defense

[@bancopop3133]

The Pistons won a championship with a season record 54-28 lol

[@yo316]

You can tell Low didn’t watch back then cause you can tell watching it was two different styles

[@yo316]

But he was right that was the worst era of East basketball

[@davidjameswheatley1662]

Yall get too caught up on stats. Ai would have an easier time guarding harden than harden would have with him

[@aflyingmodem]

Low logic is so flawed

[@AyooBudd]

Man If You Wasn’t Born To Watch The Basketball Games Back Then Then Please Don’t Talk About It 😭😭😭

[@santana901parker4]

All that flopping harden do 😂

[@myopinionhive9676]

Low is right

[@derrywallace5050]

We as a ppl have to stop letting others that can’t play ball judge athletes that can! Give me ppl that played at least in high school!!!! We always have at least 3 or 4 in a basketball convo that never picked up a fucking ball!?!?!? I get we all have opinions… but at what point do we allow nonsense to become valid