WotC's Biggest Commander Design Mistakes

[@lostalone9320]

Remember when "good for commander" meant "bad"? Like, you'd play some janky, borderline creature just because it was a snake, or some horribly inefficient counter, because you just needed a hundredth card. Designing for commander means that now everyone has plenty of the effects they want, so all cards have to be good or they won't get played.

[@sethb3090]

I honestly miss that time. We didn't WANT cards printed for Commander, we wanted to sift through and find the stuff that never really worked in regular play but might be just right here.

[@Aldrnari956]

Agreed. I do miss being able to come up with something truly unique for a deck by digging through my boxes and binders and having a moment of inspiration. Now it’s just jump on Scryfall or EDHRec, pull all the staples for your colors, and look for innovation to the basic deck list by changing out one or two cards. Even even I’m throwing something together without referencing any online resources or lists, I still end up finding out afterwards that I mostly found the basic, optimized list anyway on my own. That isn’t at testament to my deck building, it’s an indictment on how simple the format is now.

[@Mobius_ll]

I started playing 2 years ago and have never experienced this, only the experience of having to cut cards down to 100. Nevertheless it's painfully obvious to me the overbearing focus on and oversaturation of commander product.

[@DemagogueBibleStudy]

After a decade people got better at building decks. This is bad and WotC’s fault!

[@Shawn-f3x]

I’m not sure I’m down for the whole playing with clearly bad cards, so much as cards that are bad for 60-card for being a bit too slow. Besides, those days are gone because of the card pool that already exists and MtG players don’t self-regulate. The absolute flood of new EDH cards every other week it feels like is unquestionably ridiculous, though. As someone limited to LGS play most of the time because two of my 3 friends I play with have tight work schedules, I just can’t conceive of the players I’ve met voluntarily stopping with the, “As strong as things can be, while still not being cEDH-viable” mindset. Sucks a lot of the time, but assigned pods because everyone was ducking the 2 regular That Guys.

[@gauwal]

FYI, one scryfall to search for a commander you can use "is:commander" instead of "t:legend t:creature" (so you don't get the mdfc land and stuff like that)

[@electric_dream_machine]

That's a great piece of info to have. Thank you!

[@cynicalradicand]

It also includes stuff like the planeswalker commanders

[@m1gr3nA]

weird that it does not automatically remove all cards that are not legal in commander format, like silver border cards.

[@MrInvisibleJ]

@@m1gr3nA you can do legal:commander if you want that

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

@@m1gr3nA f:edh does

[@Xyzzy999]

Eminence is so broken that when a similar mechanic was introduced to legends of runeterra I immediately said, "this will be the best deck in the meta". Low and behold it was, turns out getting free things for literally no recourse investment is a problematic design.

[@the_r4ts]

Eminence can be fine, especially to power up weaker, not-as-pushed tribes. The original eminence commanders were bad because they supported four of the most popular tribes at the time, but Sidar Jabari is a great card, not overtuned, that helps knights actually accomplish something

[@mangodude6790]

Eminence has worked fine in LoR for the most part. The only one that's broken is Elder Dragon's, and his is the most recent one. Jhin's, Bard's, and the Darkin's are just good, but balanced. Edit: However you may be talking about something I'm unaware of, if so please clarify.

[@mofomiko]

​@@the_r4tstribal or not, Eminence is a stupid Braindead freebie and Sidar is now the best knight commander by default forever

[@the_r4ts]

@@mofomiko Sorry, I cannot hear you from on top of all of the life Oloro has gained me since you commented

[@franslair2199]

​@@mofomikolooting as a hard once per turn is not braindead and can easily be a downside, plus you want Sidar Jabari out and attacking. Compare it to Inalla, who will never ever be leaving the zone.

[@vanatrix1942]

A reminder from PK's previous videos: he didn't put nadu on this list because it was scripted and filmed before the announcement that Nadu was changed due to commander, and therefore he didn't have a chance to have it on the list.

[@iketcg]

FYI the clip about a designer talking about Hogaak is Tom Ross being interviewed at an old SCG event. He was a play design contractor for MH1, and was cruising through the swiss of the SCG event. He was interviewed after a match and said that the design team thought it would be a fun commander card, not really considering it for constructed. Ced and Pat mentioned that it’s wild that he just came out and said that. I can’t find the clip though…

[@Greg501-]

It's pretty obvious: A legendary creature you cast off of convoke and delve and not lands? That's not a design for a normal format

[@centurosproductions8827]

I don't think it is even something I would play in commander.

[@fireballdick]

​@centurosproductions8827 commander is casual enough that you can rule 0 a silver bordered legend as a commander. Once when a couple hours before playing our host wrote "bring light decks" I built a ln Urza, Academy Headmaster deck by just putting 60 random un-cards and some lands in it and it was great fun for everyone.

[@UniGya]

The weird thing is I don't think Hogaak is even fun in commander. It's just a big dumb beatstick you can cast in unconventional ways, like as a commander it doesn't lend itself to an interesting play pattern and in the 99 there's way more interesting things you could be doing than casting a creature that doesn't really do anything but attack

[@Greg501-]

@@UniGya Trust me, it is fun to build a deck around a commander that doesn't do everything.

[@SnackCakes]

Edh is fun cause the card options were weird, the moment they start making cards for it, it loses part of the fun for me. But from a financial standpoint I totally understand their logic.

[@pbg2025]

The moment that wizards announced they were going to manufacture and design for commander I knew it was goodbye 👋

[@SnackCakes]

@@pbg2025 I have a pod of four equally balanced decks I bring when I see friends and we only play with those so we know it's a fun and fair fight. I can't hold my own against actual pro players

[@thebigsquig]

A time commander-design really bothers me is when they include a card in a draftable set that’s only useful in commander. Take obeka. There are zero cards in OTJ her upkeep ability interacts with, so if you draft her she’s just a 4 mana 2/5 with menace. Essentially a dead rare slot. She’s only useful in commander, so why put her in the main set? If she has some interaction in OTJ draft I’d understand. Eritte the beguiler, also from OTJ, has the same problem. There’s only one Esper colored aura in OTJ and it perma-taps it’s target.

[@marowakcity3727]

a quick scryfall search shows that literally the only card in OTJ with an upkeep trigger is laughing jasper flint, another rare, so yeah the chance of her doing anything in any draft ever is pretty low

[@Umezete]

I don't hate that, the weird janky rare/mythic has always been a staple in mtg packs. They just made them better, if she was a 2000 era card she's cost 8 mana and be like a 2/2

[@steamh4mmer264]

Imagine if they had a type of booster besides draft booster where they could include such cards to make draft better and have a booster for people that just want some cards from the Set

[@franslair2199]

There are 60c constructed cards that she's fantastic with like plargg&nassari and the courts

[@IceTutuola]

I agree, I'm not a fan when these specific commander cards make it into my draft picks. Like Helga from Bloomburrow. Sure, you can build around her a lil bit, but overall she won't be nearly as consistent as say, G/W rabbits. Plus she's a mythic, meaning out of all mythics, you got the Commander one instead of the generically playable one

[@csimons]

Scavenging Ooze is my favorite creature in Magic, and one I personally consider to be a "perfect" card design. Lots of nuance, lots of flexibility. Broad synergy but not in your face about it.

[@PleasantKenobi]

I looooove it.

[@lostalone9320]

Scooze is indeed well designed, because while it is useful it's really not overwhelming.

[@centurosproductions8827]

@@lostalone9320 And unlike other hard counters like Leyline of the Void, it's much easier to deal with and requires actual input from its player, so your deck isn't stuck doing absolutely nothing as soon as an opponent resolves it.

[@kamencorgi1417]

I would also like to add one of the worst gameplay tracker they've printed in recent years: the Day and Night tracker Having to constantly track if it's day and night in paper play is a pain, and you still have to track it even after the associated permanent leaves (in case it comes back) is really annoying.

[@Umezete]

That one is arena's fault I'm pretty sure. They wanted to rework werewolves for casual in general but they concluded with a mechanic that works way better in digital than paper.

[@PleasantKenobi]

Hard agree. All my homies hate Day/Night.

[@RENEG4DE4NGEL]

It was super werewolf fun at the Innistrad pre-release events, but as soon as it was exposed to the rest of MTG it became jank.

[@mn-pegasus]

Fwiw the original round of partners being designed to pair up in 4 color combinations wasn’t because we needed “more” 4 color commanders. They were printed in the same set as the FIRST 4 color commanders. Before commander 2016, 4 color was rule 0 nephilim or a 5 color commander as an umbrella.

[@TheGregoryodd]

I always forget True-Name Nemesis is a merfolk; name and art always make me think it’s an eldrazi

[@Spyrospeed99Gaming]

Dismissing the potential for new mechanics to break old formats is passable for standard sets. But when you start dismissing things like hogaak breaking modern for the sake of commander, in a set specifically designed for modern, you’ve lost the plot.

[@mikeydildos]

Seeing the storylines they come up with, plots aren't exactly WotC's strong point 😂

[@Theanthill216]

I dont want to have a list of “auto includes” for each color of mtg, especially for EDH!! It takes all the creativity and fun out of deck building and playing, when ppl just use “the best cards possible” and constantly pushing power creep.

[@RENEG4DE4NGEL]

I avoid as much auto-include as possible for the sake of deck theme, but sometimes decks are gonna use the same cards. Esper Sentinel is in both my Heliod and my Rick decks, as it's just impossible to beat the card draw in mono-white and it doesn't detract from either. But whereas Heliod uses Smothering Tithe to go with the Holy/Religious theme, Rick uses Monologue Tax to have a "Walking Dead villains talk too much" theme. You often gotta balance between your deck being thematic and your deck having perfect synergy. Wizards does not make all cards within a theme synergize (except slivers), nor do they make all cards that synergize fall under one theme. So in my Heliod deck that is themed with Clerics and Angels, there's still a Sunscorch Regent because it's just too good to leave out. You might give up the power to stay on theme, but I and many others will kick an Angel to the curb to get a life gain trigger on every opponent spell cast with a Dragon instead.

[@Theanthill216]

@@RENEG4DE4NGEL even without theme, just as example, i never run “cyclonic rift” but instead will run “wash out”. Similar effect to a degree, is versatile, costs 4 mana vs 7, and is .50 cents vs $40. There will always be a similar effect 99% of the time. For tribe/theme; I personally dont run more than 5 cards that break it. In my mono blue zombie deck its literally just zombies, but in elves ill run kamahl since i dont play craterhoof, but it has to be something the deck cannot do but needs…..usually ramp or a finisher, every color can draw cards and each theme has an engine and synergy pieces.

[@OracleCura]

The background mechanic from baldur's gate is such a great design space, and I hope they revisit it in some way (equipments, maybe? That'd be cool.)

[@namorbot920]

Don’t forget about Oloro, the pioneer of Eminence without the word and a great Death and Taxes commander if only for the flair of being inevitable

[@MM-lv7iy]

16:19 Oloro feels happy. Made before he could be put on the firing line with the rest of his kin.

[@mattszynal9905]

Literally have been looking for this comment

[@kylegonewild]

I love the initiative so much and I'm eventually going to upgrade my UB initiative deck to Grixis with the upkeeps Ubeka. Also don't forget Oloro when talking about Eminence. He was the first "does this in the command zone" before they gave it a keyword.

[@crawdaddy1234]

If eminence was only on mono-colored legends, it MIGHT have been okay.

[@vincentxu8217]

I think it still comes down to the actual effect. Effects like free body or cost reduction that has very little room for counter play is probably always gonna be too good. (Tevesh Szat is probably the only way to interact with other people's command zone and it takes a lot of work) Plus being mono colored only makes it more consistent. But if they designed it in a way with restrictions or counter play possibilities, it might have been fine, like limited trigger/application per turn, or giving your opponents opportunities to turn it off (pay mana/life, for example)

[@Onattamato]

​@@vincentxu8217Like Sidar Jabari- only one loot per turn if you attack with a knight, and Sidar Jabari himself just reanimates one knight after dealing combat damage. Nothing too crazy

[@vincentxu8217]

@@Onattamato Exactly. And with restrictions they can even design some more splashy effects, just make sure it's not Nadu kind of " restrictions"

[@OmegaShinku]

nah, imagine markov, but it's mono green and makes elves instead. still busted.

[@salmonmankingoftheocean7624]

I mean, Eminence would be fine if players self regulated and only played Eminence commanders against each other. But that's a high bar to ask when some people derive the most fun from winning, and not the journey that made them win

[@Mister_Greenburg]

In a set like the original Zendikar, you wouldn't see a 1/2 or 2/2 for one mana that had three or four abilities like Hearthfire Hero (+1/+1 when you target it, and doing damage when it gets killed?) or pawpatch recruit which has trample, offspring, and a +1/+1 counter ability. Whereas in Zendikar, the closest you get is goblin guide which could technically help your opponent. In the 2011 coreset, bloodcrazed goblin was a 2/2 for one red mana, but it couldn't attack unless you dealt damage to an opponent. Going even further back to Kamigawa, goblin cohort was a 2/2 for one that couldn't attack unless you played a creature spell during that turn. And then if it was a 1/1 maybe a creature would have only one ability like tapping to add one green mana or maybe haste. But usually it wouldn't have 2-3 overpowered abilities like in Bloomburrow. Small creature aggro may not be good in commander but the smaller creatures are getting the same power creep that's happening as a result of cards being printed with commander in mind. And then you have cards like the talents and so on that you can build entire decks around that really show the issue. One card can do a lot which was what makes something really good for commander. It's all over the place in the past few blocks, and especially in Bloomburrow. It's almost like the design philosophy of commander cards is rubbing off on these cards and its affecting standard cards too and all the small creatures being generally more overpowered than most small creatures in the past. Commander as an official format and Wizard of the Coast designing cards with commander in mind is affecting both commander and standard. Commander was better as a community format that people could play cards that they normally wouldn't get to in standard and that weren't good enough for Legacy or Extended rather than an official format that Wizards designs cards for.

[@brendans1983]

The most egregious thing with Edgar Markov is he says whenever you cast ANOTHER vampire spell; it literally doesn't want you casting him, as every other vampire spell will give you more value on direct cast 😂

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

LOL When you make your entire deck, hoard style, and every card is a Vampire card or creature to maximize big daddy Edgar ;p

[@RENEG4DE4NGEL]

Not true at all. The reason he has Haste is because by the time you can cast him you will gain more value by adding a +1/+1 counter to easily 12 or more creatures (himself included) than from just adding another Vampire from your hand and a 1/1 token.

[@brendans1983]

@@RENEG4DE4NGEL I did say 'on direct cast', so why you are bringing up Haste and the combat step I will never know. BUT if you have 12 or more creatures, like you say, then casting a Legion Lieutenant/Captivating Vampire would not only buff all your vampires +1/+1(basically like Edgar, only quicker because it is a static ability and you don't have to move to combat for it to take effect) but they also net you a 1/1 vampire AND its cost you less mana. So you can potentially do more after the cast. But you should already know this.

[@WizardofGargalondese]

It wouldnt work if it didnt. If you cast edgar he wouldnt be in your command zone and so you wouldnt get the trigger

[@jacksonross753]

To be completely fair, with what I am about to say I love four color commanders and love in a non-competitive setting how they allow for decks that otherwise wouldn’t be possible and I want more of them, specifically in non-white, non-green, and non-blue where the only 4C commanders they have are their Commander 2016 cards and the partner/friends forever pairings.

[@U1TR4F0RCE]

I think more actual 4 colour commanders would be a good idea. There are 4 WURG, 1 WUBR, 2 WUBG, 1 WBRG, 1 UBRG With both WUBG being the two Atraxas, and half of the WURG being heroes from universes beyond. The 4 colour commander/colour identity has been underserved. UBRG has only two cards in total same with WBRG, WUBR, WURG is living it up with 5, WUBG has 3. There are 15 4 colour cards in Magic, 16 if you count Alchemy Omnath. There are 100 5 colour cards and 19 commanders for the colourless identity.

[@ogre7699]

I'd actually be behind this. Would be neat to make it more viable of an option. It's a bit weird, but I like the weirder things about this game.

[@byronsmothers8064]

4-color Legends: "dad, who's your favorite?" WotC: "don't be silly, I love all of you equally." Leans in by RGWU when the others leave. "It's you, by a long shot."

[@jpmellor]

My friend group and I would discuss wishing we had 4 colour identity commanders, and wishing we could use the Nephilim from Ravnica. It was the days of cards like Staff of Nin being printed were great card draw options for colours that lacked it, where 5 C was limited to options like Cromat, Pheldagriff, Scion and Karona. Go back even further when it was actual Elder Dragons and the jank you did have to sift through before 4 colour cards were really a thing. Simpler times before all the crazy power creep. Now the #1 ranked commander for how many decks there are is 4 colour with Atraxa. It'd be nice to have more that are other options without them being the result of crazy partner pairings.

[@m1gr3nA]

it should not be that hard to do when you consider you can add color identities by adding colored mana to the textbox. there were some voices from card designers that it is hard to make a card actually represent in some way the color identities it has but... i think color pie is largely dead anyway so why not do more in 4c identity space?

[@huckthatdish]

@@byronsmothers8064”I love all my colors equally.” Earlier that day : “I don’t care for black”

[@SWAT6809]

Honestly, the easiest Partner fix would have been that you draw 6 instead of 7 if you have a partner. Its still arguably better than having 7 cards and one commander, but with parter youre practically playing 1 card up for no cost. (Hence why companion got the axe)

[@collardcow4183]

Monarch is underrated for two player games. I don’t think it’s too strong, and I like that it encourages combat steps to matter. That said, I don’t like it for competitive play, more for cubes or kitchen table

[@yoyoguy1st]

Monarch really sucks for 2 player games. What usually happens if you get the monarch and then you can prevent your opponent from ever getting it and just slowly drown them out in card advantage. It’s also really play / draw dependent too.

[@collardcow4183]

@@yoyoguy1st I understand the sentiment, but I disagree somewhat. For competitive play, I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment of monarch. It is too strong if one deck is much better suited to protecting it. However, in cube (the primary way I encourage playing with monarchy in 2 player games) most decks are roughly equal in ability to protect and capture monarch, especially if the cube was tuned with the mechanic in mind. Not to mention, if one deck in a cube draft can protect the monarch that much better than that of their opponent, it tends to play as a “win more” effect instead of a win on it’s own. The only time I don’t think so is if you have a token/Aggro deck stacking up against a Spellslingers/control deck, at which point the spells deck is generally already at a disadvantage. As far as play/draw dependent, I’d agree with that but it’s just that way it goes sometimes, not much to be done about it.

[@TheAlmightyGoiter]

Monarch is fine in cube/draft but extremely broken everywhere else.

[@guimartgon]

Currently, the most dominating and most represented deck in competitive commander is actually tymna + kraum, also dubbed "blue farm". So you're still 100% correct on stupid 4c partner pairs in higher level pods!

[@franslair2199]

and the second strongest, which tymna-kraum has been made as an answer to, is rograkh+silas renn, aka rogsi, another partner pair! This clearly demonstrates the problem with partner as a mechanic, because an average rogsi deck will never ever ever cast silas renn, only running him for access to black and blue, and runs rog because it's a zero mana creature used as sacrifice fodder for culling the weak and other such effects.

[@ElliotButch23]

4:06 don't feel bad Vince I bought several copies of the PC version to get multiple Scoozes cause at the time the game was cheaper. Fortunately I bought 3 but the LGS owner wad cool and gave me the 4th for free

[@AidanWR]

My problem with four color commanders is that the only color that has multiple is WURG. Every other pairing pretty much just had one. I didn't want to make a Breya deck, so I had to use partner and find a theme, which was using the dragon/knight partners and having a flying/haste subtheme

[@michaelsparks1571]

Another shot at Partner is the handful that ended up in the "Truename Nemesis"-file like Vial Smasher. In four-for-all it's annoying, but tame. In 1v1, it was basically a death sentence.

[@franslair2199]

Vial smasher is regardless of partner tho

[@pureevil6047]

Having a 3 or 4 color commander is a downside. If you aren't playing green. Unfortunately the only 4c commander that isn't Green is Breya. There are only 2 cards that even have that color identity. 5c commanders obviously all include green and are usually just green decks because of all the ramp and mana fixing with some wincons thrown in.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

commander cards not being legal in legacy would solve alot of these problems. i always that it was weird that they were.

[@raiserofchickens]

A fun Background Commander Combo to play with: Wilson, Refined Bear and Raised by Giants.

[@Umezete]

I played alot of initiative in legacy, I think overall it was a great mechanic in limited that really helped address the problems commander legends limited had. I think it would've been overall pretty unremarkable in legacy if there wasn't a 2X 3 drop with it. Even just 1WW would've be a significant nerf to it. It was specifically the power-level of being able to curve out consistently with it that was overbearing. I actually think CA that is outside blue and can't be easily countered would've been good for the format if the power of curving out with it wasn't so strong.

[@devashannaidoo6877]

whats funnier is playing the partners from 2016 with synergistic decks...and the corresponding synergistic background(s) in the 99 lmfao

[@heyimbilliejean]

I think the argument of not being able to design around other formats fails when it's in the context of products that are designed specifically for those formats. Cards in the made-for-Modern set should not be ruining modern because they didn't consider how it would impact Modern. That's just a failure of basic design, and we shouldn't be excusing it.

[@FastFacto4]

I feel like a good balance change to eminence would be if the effect only worked if you had casted your commander at least once during the game, since it could be gated by cmc and not just a free spell starting

[@shmackydoo]

You and trinket mage both putting a video on the same topic is just pure magic

[@ryanjohnson2117]

I'm really glad you clarified that partner with and background were not lumped in with OG partner. Those two are my favourite commander mechanics and they create so many different deck possibilities without giving players generically good abilities like tymna and thrasios give.

[@cablefeed3738]

I disagree with you lumping 4 and 5 color together. The game would be better if they printed more four color commanders and less five color commanders by lumping them together you very much limit the number of times I can play everything but blue.

[@BCWasbrough]

I've read for years from Maro and other WotC people who feel that four color cards are the hardest to design. I tend to agree, as how do you make a card that feels in flavor for those four colors, while NOT doing anything that absent color is "good" at? Also, while doing so, they have to avoid having the new card be a "bend" or a "break" of the color wheel, like enchantment removal in red, or an efficient flyer in Green. I've read that 90% of the time the four color card winds up being so bland or generic that it's not worth printing.

[@U1TR4F0RCE]

There's been a few videos about 4 coulours and how probably the best idea is to make the card's aspects really emphasize the colour identity that it lacks that it can't do what is associated with the missing colour.

[@cablefeed3738]

@BCWasbrough Yes, but 5 color cards are already bland and generic. Why if they're going to be bland and generic, do more than three color cards have to give you access to all five colors?

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

I mean you could just play a 5 colour commander and choose to not play any blue cards my guy

[@cablefeed3738]

@@tinfoilslacks3750 Then I either have not enough blue sources to cast my own commander, or I have enough blue manna to be able to consistently cast my commander, but no other cards. I'm really playing.That's ridiculous.They should just stop making so many five color commanders and make a couple more for color instead of zero

[@dragade101]

Its ok to take a commander card that is too good in 1v1, and ban/restrict it in those 1v1 formats. That is healthy game design that WotC has control over. That they don’t do this fast enough is annoying.

[@ClubbingSealCub]

toxic deluge was indeed printed in the same set as true name nemesis

[@ogre7699]

Eminence could work as a mechanic, but it certainly needs an errata to do as you've basically described. You either have it do shit in the Command Zone, or you play it as a creature and use it for it's other ability. I think it would be pretty neat, although perhaps still a bit too strong with cases like Markov. I'll argue with you on 4C/5C Commanders though. Especially 4C. Not because they're better, but because they're weird, and the weirdness makes it interesting to me personally. But I'd rather it be through a single card rather than two.

[@byronsmothers8064]

I think "partner with" is the fair way of having 2 color partner options, as they've shared a color to open a 3-color identity, otherwise mono color is the right move for any future no-limit partners. One idea I had years ago: Ravnica set legends that have "partner with X or Y", being the two colors they are, getting the mix+match option but restricted to a shared color.

[@Wezla]

My first commander precon deck was Edgar Markov. I knew it was good, but its always great hearing people call it a straight up mistake. I think Gavin said it was his worst one?

[@ravensiIva]

It is good. But still, it's a mistake.

[@electric_dream_machine]

Eminence as a whole should've been way weaker. I think Arabo is a good example of a more tame attempt at it, it needs you to have stuff on the board to do its thing rather than just providing a free advantage from the command zone like the other three.

[@51gunner]

I've heard him say Yuriko was a mistake. Was Commander Ninjitsu a bigger mistake than Eminence?

[@Ninguin]

@@51gunner Ooooo, That is a toughie. I think I lean towards Eminence myself because there is actually 0 interaction you can do with the abilities, where as yuriko needs an unblocked creature and to connect but both are very strong and needed to be less so. I think they just need to rule that "Commander Ninjutsu" doesn't evade commander tax and it would be fair though.

[@Wezla]

@@51gunner He did a series w/ Melissa Deltoro on the yearly commander decks they did and I recall him saying he felt Edgar Markov was his biggest mistake. I think that commander was already out by then so I think he personally feels worse about the vampire than the ninja

[@jyrinx]

Something that I think is underappreciated in all this is that it turns out the Commander team has _veto power over all cards._ So, I hope you didn't like the original Nadu design, 'cause evidently _we can't have that ability, ever, in any set._ So “everything is Commander” may be hyperbole but “everything is shaped by Commander” is not.

[@DemagogueBibleStudy]

The commander team does not have veto power over all cards.

[@jyrinx]

@@DemagogueBibleStudy From the backstory of the Nadu mishap, we know that that's exactly the case. There was one round of review at the end of the process for MH3 (and for MH4 it'll be in the middle of the process instead) where a few people from the Commander team got to take a look at everything, and their objection was enough to force a last-minute change. There might be some subtlety here like they care more about legendary creatures than other cards. But if there's a card that would make Commander miserable even in the 99, I don't see why the Commander team would be okay with that.

[@fasterbuilder11]

@@jyrinx The objection was from some that it "Wouldn't be fun", not that "You cannot do this at all, we are vetoing it". They do not have absolute authority, just lots of influence.

[@jyrinx]

@@fasterbuilder11 Their concern, which again mattered only for Commander, was taken _very_ seriously. Seriously enough that the MH3 team risked printing an untested card rather than argue the point. So it is an _important goal_ that _nothing_ be printed that might make Commander less fun. A card that is identified as a threat to Commander _will_ be changed. That sounds like a veto to me? Maybe it doesn't literally play out as someone refusing to sign a piece of paper that would allow the thing to happen, but the outcome is the same. (And if we're going to be literal about it, presidential veto power isn't absolute either.)

[@tristenbezayiff571]

its strange they didn't say no to slightly worse winter orb then

[@Rancidtunip]

Except for packs or decks made for commander, i think commander should not be considered when designing for constructed.

[@thejackscraft3472]

One of the ideas mentioned for Eminence stuck in my head in an interesting way, essentially combining it with backgrounds. So you have a commander with, lets call the keyword "Seat of Power", which lets you start the game with an emblem that only has an effect if your commander is in the command zone, so thematically only if your commander is in the place where they have the most power/resources at their disposal. you could even add a nice limiter on it where your seat of power has a color identity that must match at least one of your commanders colors. it would let you give more broad themed legends as commanders, with options to customize them more towards a certain archetype.

[@TehFoamy]

Using a Gamecube as a visual censor while bleeping with a dolphin noise is an excellent deep cut, I love it

[@Nephalem2002]

It’s ridiculous that we didn’t get 4 Modern Precons instead of 4 Commander Decks. Like you can’t seriously tell me you can’t print an entry level Modern Deck with the new stuff from MH3 and previous sets to help get people interested.

[@blaze11572]

As a Canadian Highlander enjoyer, I do firmly believe initiative is not good for the format. Not really because you can play turbo initiative like legacy or pauper, but because a good chunk of the cards you can splash into any deck of any archetype and get an insane engine/clock. I legit don't see a reason to not play seasoned dungeoneer in almost every control or midrange deck in the format when you have access to white

[@SilverCyan]

TBH it all started to go wrong when they started printing cards specifically for commander (so literally the second set of precons), and the problems just started compounding when those cards started showing up in Standard sets

[@abbiemcdaniels3122]

Fun fact: They actually added a second true name nemesis precon to the second wave of cases to fix the supply chain problem and stores getting stuck with extras of the less desired decks. Rudy had a fascinating video about it years ago.

[@kamikazehansu]

Love the Initiative and the Dungeon mechanic, don't enjoy having to bring a bunch of extra dungeons and tokens. I use Dragonshield Outer Sleeves for tokens that go around the table so I don't lose them as easily, and the stack gets pretty high because of it.

[@Puddincess]

I'd like to see them try a background-style card design for artifacts tbh. Maybe specifically equipment if theyre feeling spicy. I think thatd be neat

[@AbyssAstronaut]

Duel commander somewhat solved the partner problem. You get to have your both partners in the command zone, but once you cast either, the other is locked out for the remainder of that game, meaning you can't cast it. In the next game you get to decide again which one you want to cast. Though this can very easily lead to one of partners to be there just for colors, Yoshimaru decks being worst offenders in this sense.

[@m1gr3nA]

"Edgar is the strongest of the bunch."

[@TheSpunYarn]

I have so many partner decks haha. I have 3 with the OG Partners (all 3 color) and one Commander + Background. I like how flexible they are, I like that their effects are all individually fine and let you do whatever you want with your deck. To me, looking at modern Commander design, Partner is the platonic ideal. While now we have tons of legends being "I do X, and whenever you do X draw a card". While some partners are really powerful, most of them are totally fine. Not every partner is Tymna, Thrasios, or Kodama.

[@lordmoleypants]

@18:30 - I for one would love the partner cards to be printed into Brawl. Am I wrong?

[@gabejuhasz3743]

you actually CAN attack with your backgrounds, if you play opalescence you can attack and deal commander damage with you background and its effect will effect itself because it is a commander.

[@STVMcarbondragon]

I wonder if a fixed Eminence could be called Legacy, and you get that minor buff from the command zone only after you've cast your commander and it died, like that effect is the creature's lasting legacy on the world that game is taking place in.

[@Noatzon]

Maybe we should just stop having commander products be automatically legal in legacy/other formats? It's always felt strange that you design cards for a format with completely different prerequisites than any other format/playstyle in the game and then expect it to not be a mess.

[@endersblade]

I've always thought that Commander sets should be that - a set. They shouldn't be attached to other sets. On top of that, they should have the pre-con decks as normal, but also booster packs so you can get foils of the cards in the pre-cons.

[@al8188]

As an aside, when I looked up your decklist for the ep of SUAP I grinned when I realized you were just playing D&T in commander.

[@LeBecBec]

I adore backgrounds so much, my favourite deck of all time is an Alora, Merry Thief with Criminal Past, i get to do a weird deck build and play my favourite og Baldur's Gate character. Now i am trying to figure out an Imoen deck too! They make for some really creative deck building without being busted

[@moonpsycho5790]

"There are only 5 cards with Eminence" Oloro is saved once again, rejoice!

[@Tera_GX]

I think Partner commanders are a pretty ok idea, but designing their effects is hard. Despite us having years of commander spam now, I still can find themes I want to build that I don't have an ideal commander for. But I wish it was something like "Partner with monocolor" on the multi-colored Partners. However

[@GerBessa]

Love the video, and how the power level isn't everything in these "mistakes" (product availability, free value training wheels) The 2 colors partners had a place, some were just overtuned. Ravos/Kydele is perfectly fine, but Vial, Tymna, Thrasios and (kinda) Kraum* are the issues themselves. If they were tuned down because color access is already powerful. (Also Bruse in duel commander, but that's another format entirely). *Kraum is actually the meta adapting, as a 4/4 flyier with incidental draw isn't stupid in itself, but decent board presence. Ikra was played for color access (Ikra/Kraum) without being better than a cantrip creature.

[@jessevandez]

I miss when commander format didn't have support. It was a blast.

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

You can fix partner post release by changing the rules and having it reduce your hand size by 1 or 2. I vehemently think this should be done to open up that design space in the future if they want. Also, you definitely forgot Commander Ninjutsu.

[@islandg0]

Seems to me that the easy solution for Commander designs that are likely to be problematic for 1v1, would just be to pre-ban them for 1v1 formats. Like just ban stuff like the initiative and stickers in legacy before they're released.

[@avidreader8521]

One of my favorite decks is a partner deck: Glacian/Rebbec. I read their book and loved it to bits, so they got a deck and Inwas so happy I was able to make that.

[@jimscott772]

The Melissa del toro clip is about Oko and not realizing the minus was a beast within.

[@zepetv589]

Weird that when mentioning the impact of partner on cEDH there was no mention of Tymna/Kraum, the most played (by a significant margin) and arguably best deck in the format.

[@otterfire4712]

Bloomburrow is the perfect blend of Commander and Standard.

[@Cassapphic]

I think they can return to background at some point with 2 colour commanders that have it, but they should not start pritning multi colour commanders and multicolour backgrounds because that will start spiralling into the same issues partner does, although not as badly since the backgrounds are so dependent on your main commander.

[@dashkatae]

I like when they push design for commander as long as it’s specifically in a commander based product, like baulder’s gate. What I can’t stand is when they prioritize commander in sets designed for actual formats. Nadu is a result of that philosophy and they need to change that. If you’re designing a set for standard or modern, then the focus should be cards that are good for those formats first and foremost. If you can tweak something to fit into commander, like making an interesting mechanic on a legendary creature so it can play as a commander, go for it. But don’t just shoehorn in cards just to appease the commander audience. They have products specifically designed for that audience.

[@egoish6762]

Eminence should be errata'd to still be tuckable, would make a new mini game. 10 cards on turn 1 with partners as you draw turn 1, can't believe companion wasn't mentioned. Not only was it incredibly broken in 1v1 but it was obviously an attempt to add more commander to 1v1, it's nice having a 101 card deck with will/luccas/lurrus as well.

[@ashtongaskill3980]

Wonder if it would have been worth making a "multiplayer indicator" for True-Name, Conspiracy lands, Initiative type cards to keep them out of legacy. Withiut hindsight, it'd probably be too hard to know when to label a card as multi-player-legal-only.

[@Dot_Eleven]

I actually hope to see a bit more partner, but of course in specific instances. In the upcoming Final Fantasy set I hope that there's a partner mechanic between summoners and the summons/eidolons/primals/whatever they'd like to call them in this universe. Would be nice if they could mix and match between them like The Eidolons would have Partner with Summoner and Summoners would have Partner with Eidolon. Then there's a set of Twins in FFIV that could partner together.

[@chimera0213]

As a theatre kid, Hogaak entered stage right, not stage left as you mentioned.

[@kylejohnson4662]

I know partner is problematic for casual, but I really like the general idea of it. I even built a Naya Saffi Eriksdotter/Hans Eriksson deck. Yes I had to have the rule zero conversation. The goal of the deck was to attack with Hans, flipping a Lhurgoyf (the og from Ice Age), and use Saffi to save him.

[@franslair2199]

What you're discovering is less partner and more "partners with", a mechanic i don't think anyone has issues with.

[@kylejohnson4662]

@@franslair2199 “partner with” is much healthier for the game. But I did experiment with a variation of commander with friends. It allowed for more ways to have two commanders. And it was just as broken as it sounds, but I still enjoyed it for the most part.

[@Aaron-l3l6g]

The problem is that Hasbro/WoTC is printing Commander focused cards into Constructed formats, formats that can't handle cards of those power levels and completely warp the formats they're included in. Which also artificially inflates the prices.

[@abysssouls]

What about Freerunning from the assassin's creed line, is there any problem with them???

[@kazuallykunfuzed]

I learned recently that you can have Zirda, the Dawnwaker as a companion with partner pair Brallin, Skyshark Rider and Shabraz, the Skyshark. 10 card starting hand 😎

[@GhostTradingDane]

i was surprised Trade Secrets wasnt mentioned when you made this, the card got banned immediately because you and one other person could draw both of your entire decks off the 1 card

[@PleasantKenobi]

It'd an ancient card not designed for Commander. It just happened to be printed in the first run of Precons. I actually did a whole video talking about that last year. :)

[@vengerofthelight]

13:53 -- The solution is fairly "simple" -- have Commander products print directly into Commander, as opposed to going into the Vintage (or MODERN; looking at you, LOTR) cardpool, and stop designing non-Commander products with Commander in mind. Obviously there are arguments against this. Setting aside profit margins for WotC, there's the minor logistical issue of redefining the Commander cardpool. However, I have faith that MTG players can handle it; after all, we handle that issue with Modern just fine. 16:19 -- I realize he doesn't have the meaningless ability word, but the Oloro snub is real. XD

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

Hot take: The Initiative is great in Pauper. (Not just in a "strong" sense, obviously it is strong, but in a "healthy" sense.)

[@cameton_youtube]

They already kind of explored 3 color versions of background with Dr's Companion. I actually really liked that implementation as well!

[@PleasantKenobi]

Oh shit, your right! Should have included that. Very good point.

[@trentonstinnett8698]

For Eminence, I actually think edgar and UR are tied for 3rd, sidar giving consistent card selection while filling the grave is so good, and inalla imo is the best just for making copies of useful creatures and allowing for things like 1 card combos with spellseeker

[@enoesiw]

and then if you play with a companion, you get access to an additional card that doesn't count towards your main deck size.

[@WayoftheFerret]

Funnily enough, I actually just took apart my Hogaak EDH deck. He just can't keep up.

[@SwedeRacerDC]

I like 4 color commanders, and wish there were more, but also hate the generic partner ability. I think we should have another round of 4 color commanders, all of which have exactly 4 colors. Maybe a set of two with partners with (each other). I really like background and do want to see more commander/background pairings.

[@rubyseverinwhitworth9066]

Outside of Rograk I still think the mono colour commanders aren't a problem, and even then my mono red Voltron deck where they are paired with the lizard that spreads the damage to other players is fair. Might be my love of the Inistrad Grullfriends (Alana and Halyna) talking and they probably would have been fine as partner with cards

[@HughMurphy395]

Oloro functionally has Eminence, making that 6 cards.

[@nosrin1988]

as much as I dislike "made for commander" cards, there IS something I DO like that I WISH they would make again. Lieutenant cards. Cards that "do more" when you have your commander out. Would be nice. we DID get backgrounds at least. also anything that cares about more than 1v1 are nice too. Like flamerift.

[@TyrWolf88]

Partner did nothing wrong. Thrasios is busted with or without Tymna. Rog is only powerful with Silas because you get Fierce Guardianship and Deadly Rollick on turn 1 for no mana. Nobody's scared of Ishai or Bruse Tarl.

[@ruecianbeoulve7770]

Background is hilarious to me and they should have just made more partners to accept they are a thing. If I look at a background and want to play it, I don't pick a legendary that chooses a background, I put it in a partners deck to double it's effectiveness. Dragon Cultist? any Partner with Vial Smasher. Raised by Giants? Any green partner pairing. They wanted to avoid making partners better but all they did was power up the existing partner pool without simply expanding on it to allow strategies that don't benefit from a current partner pair from getting one.

[@TheJakk5]

I wonder if they introduced a limit one list to certain formats, simulator to Yu-Gi-Oh, because most of the problem seems to be them able to run multiple and thus being to consistent.

[@screwthisin]

Love the Prof cameo with Merfolk

[@Matti_Mattsen]

i'd love a spin on background, but instead with equipment. Like a hero in an rpg bringing his favourite sword or piece of armor. so basically, flesh and blood :D

[@Hapkins-le6xf]

It seems like precons are starting to pile up in stores. I really think cutting the number of precons they make a year in half would be good for commander. Going from 24 to 12 and leaving room for small print runs of constructed precons.

[@Bubben246]

Honestly, they should go to one "Commander {YEAR}" precon cycle, one "C{YEAR}" set of boosters, and at least one UB Commander cycle per year.