Poisoner Sucks - Can it be Fixed? | Town of Salem

Thumbnail artwork by @atsekabe on Twitter
Any other roles y’all think need to be fixed? Let me know!

[@Adagia]

Just thought I should clarify something since I confused some people- no, I don’t think poisoners should be able to bring pestilence’s defense down to powerful. Nothing should be able to kill pestilence at night, that’s the role’s whole thing. When I explained how the concept could work at 2:32, I said “…targets someone with *basic* defense”. I didn’t think I’d need to bring up pest after that since it doesn’t have basic defense, (and because I like to keep these as short as possible). I’ll try to be more clear next time, oops 👍

[@beanslinger2]

if the delay must be kept, why not make it a Powerful attack? that might make the delayed kill more worthwhile, but i can see how going from a basic to a powerful literally doesn't matter to most townies without defense.

[@Curseius]

besides pest would kill the poisoner anyways if they visited them XD

[@BoltTheEmolga]

I think there’s two changes that combined can make Poisoners an actual force: the target doesn’t even know they were poisoned unless they happen to get healed by a doctor, and Necronomicon gives it Powerful attacks. That way there’s no knowledge of a poisoner existing until they already got a kill, and they are able to hold their own when solo by being able to take out roles with Basic defense. It doesn’t even need to remove the ability to be cured, because there’s no way of knowing who may or may not be poisoned. Note that this also makes the achievements for having an alerting vet and someone in jail dying to poison *much* more reasonable, which is another point in its favor.

[@pepitoalcachofa2185]

No powerful attacks for factional roles, there is a reason to why medusa is always last to get the book

[@Predated2]

Well, I think one big benefit in poisoner is that it forces the doctor to be on someone else than their initial target. So making it public knowledge is a good thing. But both Hypnotist and Poisoner are slightly nerfed due to the wrong messages. It's main issue is being a solo poisoner or coven leader while poisoner. I think it should work more like vampire, if its an evil role, you instantly attack, if its not, you poison them. Or work a little bit like WW, to affect everyone who visits your target. Would also be a big counter to TP chains.

[@DankFirewolf]

@@pepitoalcachofa2185 No powerful DIRECT attacks for factional roles, you mean

[@pepitoalcachofa2185]

@@DankFirewolf yeah but I still would rather avoid powerful attacks at all

[@s19tealpenguin61]

Here's how I would change it: Poison lasts until the target dies or is healed by a doctor. The potency of the poison increases every night (No Damage/Basic/Powerful/Unstoppable) With the necronomicon, the No Damage phase is removed and everything else moves up one night.

[@myownmeadow1320]

That’s an amazing idea! Maybe make it so that the player doesn’t know that they’re poisoned until the 2nd night, though. That could also apply to the necroomicon sequence, to make doctors less likely to heal.

[@thethunderchieftain5464]

@@myownmeadow1320 But what about the Serial Killers/Arsonists/Werewolves/everyone with Basic Defense? I would also add that if you try to poison a Serial Killer,Werewolf,Juggernaut or Pestilence they will automatically attack you instead of attacking their target and you will get murdered. That way this Poisoner gimmick would be balanced a bit.

[@myownmeadow1320]

@@thethunderchieftain5464 That does make sense. Of course, at that point, it might as well not deal a powerful attack at all until they have the book. It would slow down an already slow killing role, but would make it less detectable in return. Now thinking about it more, I personally like the roleblocking idea better. The roleblock would prevent visiting roles from, ya know, visiting on the night that they're supposed to die. Maybe it could also prevent pirates and jailers from selecting a target. Though the roleblocking would only happen with the book.

[@angaiello6320]

Well pestilence could by pass but that is a given

[@angaiello6320]

@@thethunderchieftain5464 sk or jug maybe but the others not really

[@rootbeerfloathaspop3301]

2:40 so would messages be like “You were poisoned. You have lost basic defense!” and “Your target’s defense was too strong to kill, but they have lost that defense due to your poison”?

[@KoganeYakumo]

"You have become frail due to poison! Your defense will no longer save you." "Your target was too strong to kill, but has been weakened by your poison."

[@DespOIcito]

@@KoganeYakumo what about "You have become frail due to poison! Your defense will no longer save you while you recover." for the first one? the defence debuff is only temporary

[@thedbdentity2102]

You were poisoned! You survived but the hangover Will weaken l you. The poison wasn’t strong enough. They now have a hangover though.

[@VagueCastle649]

Tbh, I'd rather not have it touch the basic defense of immune roles, as it simply does nothing other than screw over nks and gf and does virtually nothing vs town. Instead, I'd rather it be a two-target role that can poison two players per night with the book (incurable is optional), since it's role seems to be assisting in doubling up kills in a similar sense to the ambusher. It can also target itself or teammates to remove poison (will visit).

[@ME-kl9bj]

the -1 defense means that poisoner and necromancer can kill pestilence using a juggernaut.

[@dr.chalmers7923]

Yeah it doesn’t make sense for the poisoner to drop the defense of a literal god, But it does make sense to hang a god by the neck using magical rope 🤷‍♂️

[@Darkpq1742]

Imo a better buff would be: Whitout the book: Same as always Whit book: the deaths happens at the end of that same night and it ignores all Tp protection (You will still die to Bg/Crus/trap etc. but target will still die to poison) Stuff to keep in mind/Interactions Whit the book: *Roles that have "permament" Basic defence are inmune to poison (Gf/Nk/Pest will never die to poison as an example) *Roles that can give themselfe basic def are inmune to poison if ability activated (Vet on alert/Surv whit vest on as example) *Dosent bypass GA protection *Dosent Bypass Jail protection *"Last meal" and "Delayed paranoya" archivement requires you to not being the person holding Book (incase you are wondering). What do you think? any questions/concerns let me know lol

[@ChaseJonas75]

@@ME-kl9bj it only affects basic defense. Anything more than basic doesn’t get affected.

[@DespOIcito]

@@ME-kl9bj pest doesn't have basic defence though? her suggestion wouldn't affect pest at all

[@mememan8100]

My idea is that the poisoner role blocks the person the night they die (if you're poisoned, you don't really feel like getting your gun and going to the Mayor's house)

[@thedbdentity2102]

You were too weak to go perform some vigilante justice. You would most surely get resisted if you went to go arrest somebody tonight. You would certainly make a mistake and leave behind evidence if you went to go clean tonight

[@mememan8100]

@@thedbdentity2102 sounds good if you ask me

[@Kosaku-kawajiri]

​​@@mememan8100 same as Bloxtown Mistery

[@hermosillotramita480]

@@Kosaku-kawajiri yeah just like it

[@unknowed5048]

I came from the future to tell you that Poisoner is basically a consort with a one time poison that they can choose to use it anytime they want. Cool isn't it? With the book, the Poisoner will also do a normal (no delayed death) basic attack along with the roleblock.

[@HydraWerewolf]

What might be interesting would be the ability to poison 2 players after "preparing" your poison the night before. That might create more chaos and if theres a doc you'd still get 1 kill. + when you get necronomicon, lets say a doctor can still heal your poison, but you now have an abstral attack. Or instead of an abstral attack maybe the ability to cure your poison from your target, which might "confirm" you. Maybe my idea's for the necronomicon aren't that good, but let's be real, the way it is right now, it's also not good

[@ericlorentzen9089]

After having played TOS for a year or so, I'm convinced that there is one easy change that would make poisoners not totally useless: The option to perform an astral visit poison. It would allow you to target vets with no risk which would be huge for coven and create a new interesting dynamic, confirmed werewolfs and arsos would be little threat, and most of the time town wouldn't even be able to confirm if someone was really poisoned or not. Blank media devs, if you're listening, please buff poisoner, and also fix that stupid hypno message.

[@elricengquist9989]

What might be interesting is maybe keep the idea of the delayed kill, maybe with the book either make it a strong attack, or that those that attack specifically the poisoner while they have the book lose their defense the next night. The the idea that with the book if you are attacked you poison the attackers reducing their defense, but if you are jailed you poison the jailer or you can choose to poison the jailor while in jail could be interesting.

[@heuuughv1139]

Here’s an idea: Remove the incurable. Allow an ambusher-like role to it, you visit someone to poison and everyone else who comes becomes poisoned. If at that point if there’s a doctor/healer, you still kill someone. If you play and predict your cards just right, you can get 2+ kills in a night. Or 1+ kills consistently. And i like the idea of weakening defense on a visited target with poison, and meshing it with my idea, i think it’s fair for only those who you visit becomes frail. (Thoughts though.) This would be great for the nomicon poisoner. Edit: with the necronomicon, you don’t get noticed like how an ambusher does when 2+ people visit the target you’re visiting.

[@ass-master-deluxe]

hypnotist rework: visit 2 players every night. their results and messages are completely swapped. this makes hypno a powerful, fun, and overall more flexible role to play and has possibility for some cool plays. basically a role that will force town to collaborate more - e.g., jailor will not know they were rbd/controlled/attacked/poisoned/transed (therefore casting doubt on a townie trans/esc/tp claim) - e.g., crus will not know if they have attacked someone (say, if you hypno them with a non results role like jailor or medium) - e.g, two sheriffs that are hypnoed will have completely unreliable info - e.g., you work with a surv/ga and tell them you will hypno them with a spy. spy gets no results. maybe a balance would be that you have to wait a night after every hypnotization but it honestly does not seem as powerful as town roles like trans and vig. matter of fact i might buy tos again if they fix them boring roles

[@mayushiishiina1762]

No, I think this is perfectly fine and doesn't need the full moon/vamp treatment.

[@neeren777]

This is like an evil transporter, I like it!

[@dumb214]

>be an investigator >visit someone's house >Your target's defense was too strong to kill.

[@ass-master-deluxe]

@@dumb214 lmao that would be funny

[@Kirby-vd7hw]

Heres my idea, Why only one poison type? 3 choices + cooldown like Potion Master. Attack poison: Normal, delayed. poison effect. Sleep poison: Fast-acting poison that roleblocks the target the night you poison them. Hallucinogenic poison: Fast-acting poison that causes target player to visit a random target, if available, the night you poison them. Necronomicon new effect: No cooldowns.

[@aidansherry17]

I love these theoretical fix videos! I'd love to see more 😍 Or even for example, compile a few roles together in one vid that would only need a minor change. I'd also love to see what kinda role/s you think would be a good addition to the game! I play alot of Werewolf and Mafia, so it's cool to think about if any of those roles would transfer across well

[@_simplylink_]

Hey! I just found your channel today and I love this little mini "let's fix it series", and I binged a couple of your videos I love that they're both fun, simple, cute and most importantly digestable. I think I just found my next ToS youtube after the ones I used to watch faded

[@dartimes6048]

I have made this suggestion somewhere else, but what if poisoner with the necronomicon will now deal a delayed basic attack AND a super roleblock on the night the target is supposed to die (visits on that target will still succeed but only with the book). Basically it would be the equivalent of a jail. This would allow poisoner to basically force draws in normally undrawable situations. Basically it can be used to draw against a Godfather, an Arsonist, a Serial Killer, a Juggernaut. This also prevents certain draw situations usually against town roles. Aka an escort, a transporter, mafioso, vigilante, retributionist, or a veteran.

[@curtising]

You're videos are super interesting! Love to see TOS content other than just gameplay 😄

[@ModernEphemera]

Congrats on 3000 subs!

[@tyronewilson6463]

I think making the poison a powerful attack would be interesting if a bit strong. It still "feels" balanced since it is always delayed a night but idk what the necro book upgrade would be because the current one might be too strong with that attack upgrade. Maybe get basic defense like CL?

[@ladydovaky8491]

Maybe poisoner deals powerful damage normally, but that can end up healed like normal. However, with necro it cant be healed anymore like normal too. Having a garantee way of dealing with arso, pb, ww, gf and sk would be big for coven, even if delayed

[@Bob_Bobinson]

The problem with making it a powerful attack is that it allows coven to kill nks. And killing nks at night is something that the coven and mafia should not be able to do.

[@Thepandaofpizza]

The only thing I thought was ever better than any other coven role was the skin tbh

[@steve-gx3ol]

Poisoner is just a lame role, a very slow one... but it's still a bit useful especially when your not solo poisoner.

[@skullzans]

IMHO the necronomicon shouldn't be making it a basic killing role, but instead make the person unable to speak, exactly like a BMer. It'd give coven a bit more of an edge but be obviously conditional. Otherwise, fully agree to the video. Reason why I say to BM poisoned targets is that the person is too weak to actually speak loud enough to be heard, but on the spotlight people are explicitly paying attention, so they can be heard easier. Additionally, Doctors and GA's wouldn't know to protect and would have to follow their instinct. This also would buff BMer in a subtle way as now a BMing could be BMer OR Poisoner with necronomicon. Giving poisoner just a guarenteed normal kill is a bit dumb because so many other coven roles get it, but if BMing is too far, why not make it so they can poison multiple people, IE 2 at a time.

[@a.t.fa.t.f7031]

I like both of these ideas, poisoning two players in one night seems pretty strong though, especially if there is no doctor, maybe you can wait one night without poisoning to poison two players the next day so that you can get a guarenteed kill? Or kill 2 players in a single night. As for the BMing idea, I think it'd be really cool if the player couldn't speak normally and only talk when they are on the stand. This would also open up the meta of maybe voting up people who are spam voting to check if they are poisoned or just bmed. Alternatively don't let the poisoned player speak at all, even if they are voted so that nobody will ever know they are poisoned unless they pay specific attention to who is unusually quiet.

[@gordonfreeman5207]

Cool obscure channel I found. i Love town of salem. Glad to see people like you keepin it alive, subbed. Remember me if you get big.

[@wraxiusgaming]

One issue I've always had with people trying for buffs or nerfs to roles are because you want to buff for Ranked/TT+CTT modes first, but these changes don't affect those modes as much so I think I would be fine with them for the most part.

[@robbin2886]

Poisoner promoting to whatever coven role died last, if alone that would be, should be a cool concept

[@owenduffy5745]

My idea was that with the Necronomicon, the night they visit they deal a basic attack and if they survive, the poison does a powerful attack. This would speed them up slightly with the book and also add a potential way to kill people with basic defense

[@arcadius3257]

Hmm, how about giving the poisoner the ability to allow poison to spread to another person who visits the poisoned target either on the same night or the following night (Night the actual poison target dies) if they have the necronomicon? They still die at the same speed but Poisoner gets something unique and is able to possible kill two targets at once.

[@insertsarcasm]

I think an interesting tweak would be if with the necronomicon in addition to poison not being cured, poisoner's poison also effectively roleblocks a target, making them unable to do their role the night they get poisoned. I think basic immunity should still protect against this ability though in order to not screw neutrals. I also think this makes sense narratively because it's like You were poisoned! You were too unwell to do your role! Or smth

[@deathclawproductions6723]

As someone else mentioned, I don’t think Poisoner should be able to bypass Basic defense since it simply screws over NKs who already have a fairly low win rate. Instead perhaps give them the ability to poison multiple people at once or targets not being notified of them being poisoned with the necronomicon. I agree with the other changes.

[@borb6158]

Give poisoner a powerful attack instead of a basic one even without the necronomicon, and maybe make poisoned players have some sort of disabilities during the day, like being unable to vote when poisoned

[@vanillasoba4993]

An idea for a Poisoner buff In the roblox game Bloxston Mystery, they buffed the role by making the poisoned player not be able to vote for the day they are poisoned, it can also stop people from visiting. This would actually make poisoner a pretty good role to use on important roles

[@Adagia]

Respect for the Shiver pfp 🙏

[@vanillasoba4993]

🛐

[@PlunderDD]

Imo the book should go like this: Coven Leader, Potion Master, Necromancer, Medusa, Poisoner, Hex Master. So, Pmer can fake invest/doc way more than they could before. Hex Master so, no one knows there is a HM in the game and you can get hex bombs. Medusa is way better then Poisoner at least.

[@renamonking4408]

I really think coven should be completely re made, it was originally made to be an evil faction to replace mafia on a game of town vs coven with some neutrals in it, but no one plays it like that, we like to play coven for the weird interactions, having multiple factions in the game and whacky neutrals like pirate and pb who can transform the entire game. I think the entire coven faction should be re made with that in mind and make it so that the "intended" coven game is supposed to have 3-4 mafia and just make coven like a 2-3 member team in most games, and let them side neutrals, like SK, PB, WW, Jugg, I always find it funny the difference in the felling of being an SK playing vanilla TOS and being found n1 by a witch and then playing coven and being found n1 by CL, I always imagine the SK saying "oh I miss the good old times, when we could co exist and have fun together, why must we fight now old friend?"

[@myownmeadow1320]

I had another idea that was simalor to your “bringing down defense” one: What if the poisoner’s attack became powerful instead of basic? town protests would still be able to stop it, and doctors my still be able to cure players on the night of the attack, but it would definitely make solo poisoner a much scarier threat to evils then it is currently. The idea behind this is that getting poisoned is different from getting attacked, and roles with basic defense, such as arsonist, wouldn’t be able to survive something like that. In fact, you could make it so that doctors can still cure the poison, as a powerful attack might be, well, too powerful. This might be buffing poisoner too much. This was just an idea that I randomly had one night.

[@Predated2]

I think a more interesting change would be to infect everyone who visits your target, similar to WW. This would basically hard counter most TP chains unless they are double doctors(the weakest chain anyway). Double Crus would be the only real issue, but other roles can take care of that.

[@snarkventuregaming4746]

Best way to fix poisoner in my opinion? Make it a mafia member instead. Poisoner-Consort power couple anyone? Maybe even move the Disguiser over to the coven team and call it the illusionist, it could even have astral visits and be able to use dead players for more reliable disguises. Sounds like a pretty fair trade to me, Mafia would enjoy the extra killer (and poisoner would enjoy getting promoted to mafioso), and coven really doesn't have any support role other than PM, so it could help them avoid getting caught as easily.

[@giovarlin_31]

thik about it thats not balanced bmer + poisoner poisoner poison jailor and bmer blackmail jailor that means he gets guaranteed kill if not docs where on him n1 and n2 or doctor do not exist same with mayor and every role they just die without chance of saying they where poisoned (if they do not have defense ofc

[@a.t.fa.t.f7031]

@@giovarlin_31 Bmer + Poisoner isn't as strong as you'd think, outed Jailors or Mayors would have TP on them anyway negating the poisoners attack, and even if those things went through people can ask everyone to talk to see if a player is Bmed in a poisoner game, in which case Doctors would know who to go on if nobody else claimed poisoned.

[@giovarlin_31]

@@a.t.fa.t.f7031 doctor may no exist. most people do not talk in games or that i see so probably not everyone will do so. That means if they poison a mayor he die since he died to a poison not the poisoner (dunno if the bg kills the poisoner when he visits since i don't play coven but watch people play it). They can poison anyone and probably grab the doctor attention to the other dude making it a way to kill a jailor if theres not other tp beside the doctor

[@a.t.fa.t.f7031]

​@@giovarlin_31 If doctor doesn't exist that person would've died to poison anyway, and the strategy of poisoning someone to bring doc off important targets already exists + it is much easier to just kill an only doc than to go through the effort of baiting the doc off the Jailor and then HOPING the doc doesn't go on the Jailor afterwards to cure them. Not wanting poisoner as a Mafia role is fine though I have no qualms if that is your opinion. (also BG does kill the poisoner and themselves like usual attacking roles)

[@snarkventuregaming4746]

@@giovarlin_31 I know you were intending to say my suggestion was bad, but I think you're having the opposite effect. If poisoner was on the mafia team it indirectly strengthens the poisoner. Poisoner's main issue is that it's a slow killer and has little to no support from its fellow coven members. With Consorts to potentially roleblock doctors, BM'ers to prevent people calling for help, and consiglieres to identify who actually has defense, poisoner would be significantly stronger. To further my earlier comment about swapping it with disguiser... my thought on that is move disguiser to the coven as is (maybe change the name) but with the necronomicon have it function as a combo of disguiser and janitor. Whoever they choose to disguise a coven member as dies by "having their face stolen by an illusionist" and goes into the graveyard as an unknown role. It's still more balanced than it sounds at first 'cause they need the necro to do it, they don't break defense, and they still visit so they risk getting spotted by trackers and LOs, hitting veterans, ambushers, crusaders, and TP targets, as well as dousing themselves AND they don't actually know what they disguised anyone as so they don't get the wills or roles of the dead.

[@somegenericscpnu-7soldier270]

Alternative idea, maybe full rework: basically, poisoner can give out food and disguise as some other role with that ability, and give out food at night that they can choose to be poisoned or not

[@Folktales000]

I feel that a rework of how the poison works would be better. If they made it so that the poisoner is able to choose how long it takes their poison to kill someone and only the night before the target dies to the poison do they get alerted that they are poisoned. Poisoner would be able to cause mass panic by setting up 3 or 4 poisoned targets and for all of them to die at night 5 would cause mass panic on day 5, everyone giving their roles to town and trying to explain why they should be saved by a doc. That should give the coven room to work with to push a target or be forgotten by the town. If the poisoner has the book then instead of just being incurable by doc, it should instead debilitate the target and roleblock them the night before they die. Poisoner would be able to have a winning chance if they lost their coven team already with these changes, they could buy time as they set up their town wipe by poisoning targets way before it becomes apparent they are important like poisoning the silent guy who only claimed surv day 1 but has been voting could turn out to be jailor or mayor.

[@benp4243]

I think it would be awesome if the target doesn't know they are poisoned if you have nerco.

[@The_Engineerr]

Necronomicon Buff: If a role with no defence kills (Only kills, not attacks) a poisoner with necro, the attacker will get poisoned. (This does not work on jailors) I think this could work if the poisoner has teammates and dies by Maf/Vigi/Crus/Vamp or even Pirate. That way the poisoner will get another kill for the coven (If they have teammates). Or if its a solo poisoner, they can just say ''Maf dont kill me or youll get poisoned'' or something like that to survive longer.

[@abcdef-ms9mb]

Personally I think the change with necronomicon should primarily be about being able to remove targets with strong defence. Coven often has limited tools for that, depending on the team roll... and assuming you roll a team in the first place. I think it could make for an interesting niche to give poisoner with the necronomicon a Powerful attack. Or perhaps, to go with the theme of being able to kill every night, make the poisoner deal a basic attack to the target, and a powerful attack the following night. You know, like stabbing someone with a poisoned blade - if they live the injuries themselves, they still have a lot of poison in their veins or something.

[@lienesauserde7419]

What I would do for necro is to make it so the night the player is poisoned anyone who interacts with it like body guard also get poisoned

[@lillycutie3806]

I think it would be interesting if a poisoned player could actually be healed by any tp, not just doctor. I’ve always seen poisoner as a way to pull doctors off of other important targets, like Jailors, etc, so this would allow bgs, crus to also be “distracted” by poison. Of course this completely goes out the window with necro, but idk.

[@giovarlin_31]

i say in a pipe video, in my opinion theres could be 1 of those 2 buffs on the necronomicon Super roleblock - When the townie or evil are poisoned they cannot visit (lets take it like they have so much pain with the poison so they will not move) in that case if the evil actually have defense they will get their defense up to one less (aka if you have serial killer or godfather it will lower your defense and the next day if they poison you again you can be killed) does not work on juggernaut and neither on plaguebearer / pestilence And Powerfull damage - practically option 1 but the super roleblock does not exist and the defense does not have to be lowered

[@giovarlin_31]

@@yellowdicesam does not work in pestilence cause he does not feel pain and also juggernaut cause he probably can get through the pain and the defense does not drop cause juggernaut already is buff and pestilence is a plague itself

[@yellowdicesam]

@@giovarlin_31 that is... more lore than mechanics

[@lukaschin1038]

I think maybe something during the day? That'll fit the role as well, so maybe w/ necronomicon they can poison in the day as well as the night, and if they get poisoned in the day they die the next morning, but at night they die how they normally would.

[@SkullTheLegless]

I think that poisoner might be a bit better if coven was guaranteed to have multiple members, and if their ability was replaced with roleblocking with 1 “regular” poison without the book

[@ZaTrapu]

I feel like it should affect tp and ga's protection by 1 level for night it'll keep going down unless the poisoner doesn't hit the poisoner or the target. A tp's and ga's protection as well as immune's defense isn't hit by the poisoner or a ga or tp's target dies the defense goes up 1 into it returns to normal

[@ciderhat2760]

Maybe poisoner could work similarly as to how to mafia does when the mafia doesn't have any mafioso or gf. If there isn't a coven that could kill that night on the poisoner's team then they could get "promoted" so that they can kill every night or still do regular poisoning.

[@lienesauserde7419]

The devs already said that they won’t don’t that for coven

[@firefist5904]

Personally, I think it would be better to have tergets not know they are poisoned with the necronomicon. This weakens it a bit vs doc but makes it better against GA, and instills fear into the town. Vigs/Vets may be more likely to use their abilities early if they think they are poisoned. The mind games would be fun :)

[@DanksterPaws]

In a mobile game of the same genre, called mafia mystery, there is a similar role by the name of toaster. The only difference being that the toaster also roleblocks the person the same night they were “toasted”. Despite just one change, toaster is the most powerful role in that game. Even with doctors having unlimited heals.

[@NachoPotato]

Additionally i think a pretty cool idea is giving poisoner different strength poisons, allowing the poisoner to poison two people but only one of the two would end up dying completely randomly

[@justachilldude8426]

I think the simplest way to buff poisoner is to make it so that Crusader doesn’t see poisoner, so they can hit through to a townie. If it needs further buff, rather than a normal interaction, maybe BG would be poisoned in place of the Jailor (like a food tester) and the poisoner gets away unscathed. Jailer would need a doc or LO before claiming in a poisoner game. This would make poisoner counter TP’s, which means it is more likely to play a substantial role. Otherwise, a lazy buff would be giving poisoners the ability to poison roles with basic defense, potentially killing them outright, or receive basic defense themselves. This means they can hold their own against NK’s, even without a CL or a teammate. Being able to kill the same night with the necronomicon and fixing the hypno message are both much better ideas imo. Edit: It’s a bit complex, but an alternative is that the Poisoner can read a player as being sus or inno upon poisoning them. They can also poison or heal a poison each night (or both in one night, either is interesting). So this creates an entirely unique way to guess roles; for example, if somebody has defense, but is inno, then they’d figure it to likely be an arso. This would be taken further if the poisoner can communicate and negotiate with their victim the next night. Although it’d be more fair for the victim to be able to speak, without the poisoner able to ask questions, to make communication more difficult. But it’d be fun regardless. People might have to fake claim jester or executioner to survive, which is hilarious. Even if you did the majority of the above, poisoner still wouldn’t be the most OP role in ToS, because they normally cannot kill in the same night, and their investigative abilities are very limited. Aside from jester or exe claims, which are untrustworthy, poisoners would die eventually from an uneasy alliance with evils. They counter certain roles quite well, such as crus or GF, but are screwed over by others, like Doc or any killing role if they lack defense.

[@a.t.fa.t.f7031]

I like this idea of an evil Jailor-esc role, so the night after they are poisoned the poisoner can choose to let them live. Ofcourse this would need to be worked a bit harder on since I have no idea how other roles would interact with it, but its a cool concept.

[@PuddleOfCats]

theres one thing in a roblox TOS clone that could make poisoner good Poisoned people are too ill to do their role or vote That or just allow them to rampage like the roblox tos game does but that game has all roles rampage so

[@cloutogelevatedtv9000]

I think making poisoner work like arso where all who visit the poisoner's target will get poisoned would make poisoner really powerful

[@ensomosa5137]

In the roblox version of town of salem the way they made poisoner actually good is by making it so that poisoned people are unable to vote until they are cured.In actual ToS this could be added as a feature that the necromonicon would give to the poisoner.

[@aufishtic]

step 1. be poisoner step 2. have medusa in team step 3. poison someone step 4. doc will go on poisoned step 5. necronomicon dusa goes on poisoned step 6. all of them die

[@dynamite2275]

so would this make it possible to kill pest at night?

[@alive2kill]

Yeah poisoner is one of, if not the worst role in terms of satisfaction, at least with medium i can troll a bit and force the dead people to listen to my crazed ramblings. The wrong messages on roles are such a niche thing that just ruins interactions and seems like an easy thing to fix that never got it, really hope we get just a fix on these silly bugs one day but i don't hold much hope at all. I like your idea, but it think the defense taking might be a bit much, not like it helps much agaisnt anything besides gf and some neutrals that are alread in solo positions most of the time, i feel like poisoner would fill that good position of secondary threat in a coven with several members and then if they die it just gets to be a "mafioso" and still pull something out at least. Really good video, always enjoy hearings your opinions and at least someone trying to make solutions for the problems instead of just complaining about them! Frankie plush was very cute!

[@kaladinstormblessed1762]

I think Poisoner should play like normal but when they have the necronomicon it should prevent the poisoned target from visiting. Like the targets is too sick from the poison to leave their house. Not quite a roleblock per say (it wouldn't stop non-visiting roles like jailor/amne) but would have a unique supporting attribute in addition to the delayed kill power.

[@myownmeadow1320]

It might be able to stop pirates and jailers from dulling and putting their target in jail, but ya, I think the idea that anime’s and mediums and roles that truly don’t visit could not be affected.

[@flazzorb]

What if necro does two things, poison can't be healed AND it stays from night to night gaining power, aka person gets poisoned, next night they take a basic hit, then powerful, then unstoppable.

[@daweird1z]

Idea I have had if poisoner can have defence pierce or a powerful attack

[@willowstatham804]

Wouldnt it be interesting if poisoning a neutral or evil also made them unable to speak at day? Maybe poisoning a doctor or ga could straight up kill them in one single night.

[@2centstudios]

Poisoned players should not be notified when poisoned unless they die from it or are healed from it. It should function just like an alternate arsonist going around BG but losing to Doctor. Necronomicon should give a lethal poison option that kills that very night and goes through priority 4 and lower defense. Should also be able to heal poisoned players to "confirm" themselves as doc.

[@jacobhagelqvist7037]

What if They give poisoned AND crippled if They poison with necronomicon. Crippled: roleblocked while effect is in place. This would roleblock somone effectively for 2 turns or 1 if They get healed

[@onuralptanyeri6072]

The reason poisoner sucks is the role is designed to have teammates, poisoner is there to have another kill potentioal besides the main killing role in the team but İf he is solo ıts probably the worst killing role in the game, even mafioso can kill someone the night they want.

[@Murphy_Law0]

The length of this video was the number of pi

[@HollowHeart771]

But with the necro he gets a huge power spike were he dose the exact same thing as before................... Even the hex master gets a huge upgrade and the hex master sucks

[@HollowHeart771]

What were they thinking when they made this

[@dillpickleboi9525]

I feel like if poisoner had necro any doctor who tries to heal a poisoned player gets poisoned themself

[@C454D]

How about instead when they have necro they gain basic attack + poison is now a Powerful attack instead. So even if a target is immune, the poisoner can get through though delayed.

[@senzoo8900]

We could give them powerful attack?

[@jackmaloney4751]

Can you do bodyguard because I have a few ideas: 1. When the bodyguard dies protecting the target they change to guardian angel and be told what role they were. 2. Bodyguard can kill multiple killing roles that attack the target.

[@seawingdragon5098]

Actually that sounds interesting, because rn a BG seems like a low budget Crusader. I dunno if I like the idea of a townie becoming neutral when they die though...

[@yellowdicesam]

BG does need a buff. the first one is just weird, and I don't like it, but the multiple killing roles one is one that should already be applied to BG imo. BG is a C tier-ish role imo, and it doesn't really need that many buffs, so that one buff could make it, and yk, ya can't make a video of 1 buff, js in addition, it'd be interesting if Ada could make videos about nerfing roles, such as CL, which is one of the more OP roles in TOS

[@Jsjsksospw]

I think poisoner should have increase her attack to powerful when she have the necro and able to use two needless and also she just throw a needless to the window or a door or just anything so the lookout can't see her and the vet can't kill her went she visit vet that should be add to her

[@Thaplayer1209]

Poisoner is the only role I haven’t won as and I really want it to have a buff

[@iwersonsch5131]

I'd give them Powerful attack by default and 2 visits with the Necronomicon. Doctors can still heal Powerful attacks. In return, I'd buff Bodyguard to only redirect the attacker's attack onto themselves rather than always dying for their cause (the latter change being a part of my Arsonist rework).

[@iwersonsch5131]

My arsonist rework (since Pipe considers Arso to be really strong in All Any, while I think he was buffed for Ranked ages ago) would go like this: - To passively douse visitors, the Arso has to stay at home - If someone visits a doused target on the night of ignition, they also go up in flames - If one arso ignites and another one douses, the ignite happens before the douse - Witch's barrier prevents the first basic attack or douse (i.e. a dousing Arso breaks the barrier but prevents the douse) - A bodyguard attacking the arsonist gets doused instead of dying - Veteran and a Bodyguard's protection prevent the douse

[@iwersonsch5131]

... I think Medium should be able to learn every town member's true role at night (maybe not evils), in case people ragequit or go afk. Just gives them the same info they'd normally have, but without having to rely on teammates not sucking

[@boevoikrikun]

Poisoner needs the following changes imo. 1. Make it receive Necronomicon 2nd after the CL 2. Make the Necronomicon attack unstoppable (except GA) so pois can kill immunes.

[@MrBii03]

That's definitely too much, the reason Medusa gets necro last is BECAUSE it can kill immunes

[@boevoikrikun]

@@MrBii03 I'd rather say it's because she can kill immunes AND acts like a janitor. Additionally, for the poisoner to get the book, the stars really need to align. There has to be no CL, it has to be N3+, there has to be no HM and it's a 33% chance unless your only ally is a dusa. Only possible change is - make it an even 25% chance between hm, pm, pois and necro

[@MrBii03]

@@yellowdicesam The only set in stone is CL getting it first and Medusa getting it last

[@oddbulbsaur935]

I would make it like Bloxston Mystery (yeah yeah I know cringe) where poisoner stops someone from voting.

[@completevoidinpfp7129]

would be funny if you could poison 2 people in the same night on a 2/3 night interval (can poison again on night 3/4 if they did night 1)

[@Zagiman72]

Instead what if the target didn’t know they were poisoned or if they poisoned everyone visiting them

[@nellyperez3622]

So poisoner can lower the defense of pestilence and make it possible to kill pestilence?

[@frol4365]

Poisoner just needs to send fake message to other player while poisoning the real player then role will be fine , if poisoner can kill someone with defense (im talking about attacking every night with powerful attack or lowering defense) will be pretty op. Thats why Medusa gets the Necronomicon last. Also Hex Master needs cautious button like Serial Killer when got the Necronomicon. But visits are still astral because unique ability. Also Poisoner is pretty fine for me , only counter for Poisoner is Doctor after someone is poisoned. If there is no Doctor , Poisoner is already kill machine. But i agree Poisoner needs some love. Coven is not really strong after all. They also took Necromancer using something on themselves so Necromancer is open kill for other evils.

[@iHateHandlesGetRidOfThis]

I really feel like hexmaster shouldn't be quick to get the necronomicon... the silent hex bomb plays are too fun to require a CL to pull off.

[@aidansilli4257]

I think tos2 did a great job fixing it by combining it with consort

[@MrJoshy]

My suggestion would be either 1. Poisoner with the necronomicon gains powerful attacks (but still has the 1 night kill delay and only can be cured by GA) Or 2. With the necronomicon, the victim will not see a poisoned message at all and will die to poison like normal

[@Bob_Bobinson]

Interesting suggestions but the whole weakening defense can't be a thing as it would allow the coven to kill nks at night.

[@LanaIsUnderrated]

In my opinion the order of the necronomicon is actually NOT good Because Hex master beeing the second... Hex master, his entire gimmick just gets removed with the necronomicon. He is supposed to be a sort of arsonist, but with the necronomicon it just turns him into a glorified mafioso

[@sgt.zaitsev287]

I think Poisoner should also always spawn with a Doctor

[@toman408]

i would make the target that was poisoned super roleblocked during the next night. Docs wont be able to selfheal, vet/trans/esc wont be able to do anything, jailor would still jail a target but wont be able to exe and pirate would automatically loose its duel. Also poisoner with necromonicon should just ignore basis defense along with having their poison not curable... i don't understand why is that not a thing already. You died of poison and could not perform your night ability.

[@yellowdicesam]

because this is something BMG has never thought of and even if they did, they'd prolly think this is too OP, and I'd agree. a normal RB would be a nice buff to go with another smaller buff, like for example, the one the Poisoner already has now for its Necronomicon ability. however, Pirate losing its duel doesn't make sense, if they're super RBD by being jailed, they simply can't Pirate, and a RB would simply be enough to nerf some other roles.

[@ZaTrapu]

No sheriff and especially no doc then having the book as poisoner changes nothing

[@You-nd5qs]

The answer is yes if you totally change the role til it's unrecognizable

[@Adagia]

Devs reworking retributionist be like ^

[@Andrew-ch3xj]

@@Adagia old one was good imo. But then again. They could made it like special roles cannot be revived

[@spicymeatball4175]

Poisoner is such a toxic role *pun intended*

[@maxtonealey3072]

Pm cl dusa necro and hex are all very powerful roles. Poisoner is a really good combo role with cl hex or pm. It is like a mafioso, I really believe poisoner is balanced

[@myownmeadow1320]

It probably should get a stronger book ability, though, for if it might be solo.

[@missmorbid1439]

It's fine if you're playing with a coven, but every role in the game should have the ability to function independently, or be required to have a team. Mafia supporting roles are required to have at least a mafioso/GF with them, so they're guaranteed at least one teammate. Poisoner can spawn by themselves, and it's pure torture to play solo poisoner because your odds of winning are almost nonexistent.

[@deathdragon563]

Poisoner should have powerful attack; would make them much more of an asset due to arsonists, werewolfs, etc. Edit: They should make it to where without Necronomicon, the poisoner has a basic attack with a cure, but with the Necronomicon, they gain a powerful attack that is not healable. I think that would make the role pretty good, but balanced at the same time. It's an interesting topic, give feedback pls

[@AnotherDuck]

A slightly boring way to upgrade Poisoner would be to give her basic defence or a powerful attack (but still delayed).

[@yellowdicesam]

agreed

[@RSJO.]

How can bg be fixed?

[@safarfsaf]

imo, poisoner should have powerful attack. doesnt need a change other than that

[@natantitelbaum6061]

You forgot to put ambusher in

[@nusky4487]

Yeah poisoner shots in Bloxston mystery is bad the shots go where you don’t point

[@ameliakyle7054]

I personally want Psychic changed as it's ridiculously too effective at causing problems for TPs and Evils alike and is way too easy to fake and it's not even unique so no one bats an eye when half the town is claiming psy

[@Snaps12345]

Here is one thing that so many people including this video get wrong about certain roles. Some roles being bad isnt a problem of the role, its directly a coven all any problem. Coven all any is a terrible and unbalanced gamemode that might be fun every once in a while but because its all this community plays at this point they have kind of defaulted to thinking every role is made for caa so we hear complaints like "ret cant even use anything" or "solo poisoner is bad". Yea, because both of these scenarios wouldnt happen in good rolelists. Also the poisoner insta killing kind of removes the point of poisoner. I think the poisoner should just get the necronomicon really late instead of it being random. But I heavily disagree with another Coven role being able to take out NKs. Factions shouldnt be able to kill NKs, its the other way around. The power chain in this game is town, who can be killed by anyone but has full voting majority, evil factions that can kill town and have a little team and then NKs that are alone and can kill anyone. Medusa being able to kill NKs isnt too broken because it requires them to walk into her and at the point she can visit to kill them she is solo.

[@nyahahahahahahahahaha]

i legit just got fucking poisoner

[@VagueCastle649]

I bet you're solo

[@nyahahahahahahahahaha]

@@VagueCastle649 i had potion master teammate that died n2 to ww, then i got lynched for visiting someone that the ww didnt even rampage on

[@VagueCastle649]

@@nyahahahahahahahahaha Close enough...

[@JordyVibing]

Just use more poison lol