Fixing Pokemon's Most Forgotten Moves

It’s been over 7 months since I’ve talked about Pokemon’s most forgotten moves, and given that there are over 900 of them, there were A LOT that slipped through the cracks. But recently, a thought occurred. Would it be possible to make these forgotten moves more desirable? What changes could be made to buff them while also still being realistic? Well, that’s what I’m doing today. Let’s look back at some of the most unloved and obscure Pokemon moves - along with a few other ones not mentioned before - and see how or if they could finally get the recognition they crave…
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[@ostensiblyaverage5576]

This isn't that unrealistic honestly, Leech Life got buffed from utter garbage to one of the best bug type moves in the games, so it's still totally possible.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, Leech Life's buff was insane. It does make me wonder why they don't do that sort of stuff to moves more often instead of deleting them

[@duckymomo7935]

@@PokemonWoop idk, the game still requires "progression moves" which I think is a dumb vestige of old gameplay

[@Zom6ieMuffin_]

It’s probably the best bug type move behind U-turn

[@Pablo_y_Parinacota]

@@PokemonWoop I mean, its cool what they did to leech life, and this thought experiment is really cool and it is not unrealistic, but i still think its fine if they delete some moves form the game. I mean there is too many of them, sometimes i feel like there is more moves than pokemon. So sure lets see what we can do for these forgotten moves, but maybe it would be better if gamefreak just deleted them.

[@Viovel]

​@Pablo_y_Parinacota I honestly think they buffed Leech Life specifically for Buzzwole. Would be kinda wierd of the huge mosquito Ultra beast to use a base 20 attack, no?

[@HesGotaGun505]

I would make barrage a grass type physical attack that represents a coconut or fruit falling from above, and scales with the user’s height. And I would share it with Tropius.

[@PokemonWoop]

That's actually a really cool idea!

[@The_Ninja_Tree]

For sure Tropius needs it

[@Asidders]

Damn!

[@Glory2Snowstar]

“Scales with the user’s height” is a CRIMINALLY genius concept. Would to deal more damage based on height discrepancy?

[@Ziggaton]

That's an interesting visual although I still like the idea of it being a mon telekinetically bombarding you with random nearby shit.

[@naomiseadragon2676]

Fun fact, sableye actually got access to octozooka in a gen 5 event distribution. I have no idea how sableye were to use that move though; probably best not to think about it too much.

[@HesGotaGun505]

Maybe it’s related to Hopkinsville Goblin.

[@benjadryl_7393]

@@HesGotaGun505 sableye got octazooka in that event because it was meant to celebrate some number of years of a japanese television show running. the host of the show was allowed to choose the mon and moves edit: after double checking, the show was called pokemon smash (previously pokemon sunday), the host was named chief golgo, and the show had been running for 9 years at the time

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, kind of a random move to give to an event Sableye

[@yannickgrignon2473]

I'm pretty sure that was the result of a fan contest or something, some absolute legend out there said "you know what this little cave gremlin needs? An octopus-themed water attack." And Gamefreak was like, "yep, makes sense."

[@Rainfire-forgets-to-animate]

Maybe they were just trying to be silly?

[@ivanbluecool]

Id love to see more dry freeze type of moves that have different ways to play. The game would be so much more interesting with specific moves that do super effective damage

[@wafflebroz]

Sky Uppercut is a fighting move that is super effective against flying would be neat. Even add a resistance for ground types on that move

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, more moves with type gimmicks would be interesting

[@ivanbluecool]

@@wafflebroz a poison move super effective to steel as it melts it off. Fire move that cooks a rock into coal Fighting type that hurts a ghost type and so on. That'd make the game add stragety to fighting certain mons

[@ivanbluecool]

@@PokemonWoop i can see so many moves that could logically work. A fire move so hot it does super effective damage to water. A electric move that does damage to ground. Ground that hits flying Sky uppercut should have hit flying for super effective damage even.

[@wafflebroz]

@@ivanbluecool Scrappy ability for the last one is pretty cool. Your poison against Steel was what I was hoping Salazzle would have with its ability. Being able to poison steel types only was a disappointment. Even if it’s just neutral damage, that would be cool. Hit Ferrothorn with Sludge Wave or something

[@blinkspot2667]

Octozooka can be learned by the Horsea line as an egg move.

[@Nick-ci8ve]

It seemed that being interesting in a playthrough is more relevant to them than competetively and there's probably less people grinding eggs in normal play than people using magikarp to sweep on showdown

[@JayClearman411]

I’ve bred for it.. in both emerald an firered..

[@richarddill692]

Personally, I like the idea of giving Razor Wind the same effect as Protect/Detect on the first turn. Something about the idea of whipping up a powerful wind around yourself just screams "Wind Wall!" to me.

[@BananaR777]

Change it to a flying type move that can also count as a steel.

[@Ziggaton]

Yasuo has entered the chat

[@shynox599]

good thing this is a thought and not real.

[@richarddill692]

@@shynox599 Why? It's still an 80 base power, two-turn, Normal-Type Move w/ a slightly boosted crit rate. Even with the free Protect/Detect on turn one, it more than likely wouldn't see all that much use since both of those moves already exist.

[@shynox599]

@@richarddill692 its a protect variant, that attacks

[@malick9549]

For some reason every single one of these moves is present in Mystery Dungeon Explorers and some are really good, I just don't know why GF decided to say "Fuck you" to those in the main line series. Edit: For some reason in gen 9 GF changed the Spanish and Italian name of barrage but the move can't even be selected in battle since gen 8, very weird...

[@PokemonWoop]

The multihit moves in particular are crazy good in those games from what I remember

[@malick9549]

@@PokemonWoop yeah they are indeed broken, Octazooka is also a ranged move and from Super Mystery Dungeon onwards it can give the opponent a unique effect called blindness which is very fitting for the move.

[@waterierStone]

When they buffed leech life to 80 power in gen 7 it just felt so good to use bug types. It pretty much invalidated x-scissor though. then they made lunge too which is also 80 power. X-scissor should get an improved crit chance to be the bug type version of all the other slicing moves, they could probably buff it to 90 power as well since the bug type sucks. or just buff it all the way to 100 power and don't give the crit chance.

[@shardtheduraludon]

It’s weird that they did exactly that… in Legends Arceus, which is singleplayer only

[@Asidders]

Definitely 90 and crit chance. Everything about the attack just screams high crit chance to me, it's so weird it doesn't have it!

[@H1_R3Z]

It took me until the Leech Life buff to realize X-Scissor doesn't have a high crit chance. That definitely should be rectified.

[@asierx7047]

I think that at this point they're too scared of giving kleavor access to a no drawback high crit 135 power STAB option

[@azurai3934]

@@asierx7047it’s also boosted by Sharpness, though just making it 90 power with no drawback is fine enough for me tbh

[@isaaclim8645]

As someone who loves watching KZbin crime/horror/mystery videos, I love how this gives a creepy undertone and it's about Pokemon. Perfect!

[@PokemonWoop]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed :)

[@vencedor1774]

@PokemonWoop but... Just why. Its a video about pokemon moves, why do you made it this creepy

[@Magicwaterz]

I have to double check your suggested changes by looking up its original Japanese name and trivia, if any. Razor Wind interestingly is based on a yokai with a similar description, but what got me is that in the yokai lore, this yokai attacks people's legs. Getting your legs cut is pretty painful and detrimental so maybe Razor Wind can make opponents' speed drop, flinch, or both.

[@chavonjames8941]

I like this Since relic song can attack and put to sleep. But slap on a Razor Fang, you can put to sleep+flinch (flinch even in sleep :o)

[@Alakadoof]

Submission is my "what the cinnamon toast fuck were they thinking" move. 80 Accuracy, 80 power, recoil!? Why does this move have to suck in multiple ways? Especially in Gen 1 when there were like 4 fighting moves, half of which belonged to Hitmonlee.

[@PokemonWoop]

The sad thing is that it's the only fighting move available for most fighting types in Gen 1

[@yokaipinata1416]

​@PokemonWoop Not helping is that Karate Chop was yet another victim of the "make everything Normal for no reason" frenzy in Gen 1 (at least they fixed it in later games). With Gen 1 crit mechanics, it would have worked so well on Primeape...

[@Asidders]

Take Down is so trash as well

[@dvillines26]

it should just be 100% accurate

[@robertlupa8273]

Don't forget that they nerfed its PP in later generations for literally zero reason!

[@PlutoPlanetPower]

Great video! However, I think you missed what Barrage was supposed to be as a move. It's Japanese name is "ball throw" because it's implying Exeggcute is throwing eggs (or themselves) at the opponent. So it's a barrage of eggs and not just a barrage of some mysterious power. That would mean Psychic type wouldn't make sense. If you want to give it STAB, then Grass makes sense as it's playing on the overlap of eggs and seeds which Exeggcute is based on. Even though it doesn't match Exeggcute's stats, Barrage would still be more appropriate as a physical move because of the act of throwing eggs.

[@dragonboyjgh]

why wouldn't psychic make sense for throwing things? That's what Confusion is. And Psychic. And Telekinesis. It would be a barrage of throwing balls/eggs with your mind, charged with telekinetic psychic energy.

[@hv433]

I would think that making it a Steel-type move would be more fitting, since in every single iteration of the animation, the balls thrown appear to be metallic spheres, like Exeggcute is tossing shot put balls, for some reason. Psychic type is also fitting considering every description describes it as "spheres" or "orbs" or even "round objects", providing a mystery factor. Besides that, there's already a move that throws eggs at foes, it's Egg Bomb! I do agree that it should remain physical though. These aren't mind blasts.

[@robertlupa8273]

But then it'd just be Bullet Seed. :/

[@Magikarpador]

i used dragon rush garchomp on my gravity team. opponent dced when i flinched them with it

[@chavonjames8941]

If you’re scarfed, this can be so problematic bc nothing would outspeed unless a faster scarfed mon can KO, someone uses Counter, or you somehow just miss (they avoid the attack) but I like this idea

[@WGoNerd]

Remember, Dragon Rush IS 100% accurate if Cynthia uses it.

[@Kermit_ouo]

Spike Cannon on Cloyster is ridiculous wonderful, I honestly think it's good as is

[@theknightwithabadpictotall7639]

Gotta love Skill Link

[@realsalu634]

Now we need to make *Constrict* an good move...is it possible?

[@PokemonWoop]

Realistically, probably not. Even for an early game move, it's useless. I guess maybe a 100% chance for a speed drop every time it hits?

[@hv433]

Constrict now deals 10x the final damage to Trapped opponents. Now it's a literal death sentence to trapped opponents.

[@ProfesjonalnyYoutuber]

60 base power 100% chance to lower speed basically low sweep and single target icy wind

[@KurusuPanda]

I'd make it a normal type Magma Storm because buffing it 10x is funny

[@Daydeus]

Constrict is a pretty low-level move, so I’d just raise the base power to 40 and make it Fighting-type. Make it a good early-game coverage move for all the tentacle/many-legged Pokemon.

[@alecrutz6979]

how to fix razor wind: 1. make it have +6 priority 2. make it bypass accuracy checks to always hit like swift 3. turn it into an OHKO move definitely won't be broken dude trust me

[@edgargaebolg9307]

Make it ignore abilities

[@epicdude8742]

Certified Power Herb Moment™

[@jimkas3606]

Doesn't by pass protect, shit tier move

[@edgargaebolg9307]

@@jimkas3606 It's okay, Smogon's future Protect clause will deal with that

[@RinRinStrikes]

Octazooka would urionically probably get banned

[@ShayTheValiant]

It is my dream that one day, every type will have both a physical and special version of moves like Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Flamethrower. Base 90 power, 100% accuracy, wide distribution, and has some kind of secondary effect that either does something positive to the user (stat boost) or something negative to the opponent (stat drop or status effect).

[@Bubben246]

Or has 95 base power, like Surf. Hey, bonus damage is a positive for the user, right?

[@ProbablyNotOnFire]

​@@Bubben246Surf, like Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam, was dropped from 95 power to 90 power in Gen 6. I assume this was to make the Fairy type even *more* The Best.

[@pengwino828]

I kind of like how it’s done right now. Rock is a great offensive typing, but on the special side you have very few options and on the physical side you take the risk of low accuracy with stone edge. This made meteor beam a super interesting move, and people would have to work around it to get special rock coverage that most teams are not built to handle. This does backfire sometimes however, like how for some reason gamefreak refuses to give most physical electric types a halfway decent stab.

[@kurtpryor6334]

I think Razor Wind could be fine as an early game move, give it to the regional bird at mid to late teens just before 60 base power starts becoming commonplace instead of a later level moveset.

[@PokemonWoop]

I suppose it could be like a flying type version of Dig

[@Zerox_Z21]

​@@PokemonWoop So... Fly?

[@PokemonWoop]

Well, I guess fly before fly lol

[@randomperson4915]

I've always liked the idea of razor wind being a two-turn move in exchange for an automatic crit, making it the highest power of the "always crit" moves. Maybe bumping it up to 90, 95 base power as well

[@JayClearman411]

I love this idea!

[@d.n.3652]

The horsea line also got octazooka through an egg move

[@evanhewitt762]

I think a really flavorful change for egg bomb would be for it to work like Night Shade/Seismic Toss, since the latter is the only real way Chansey deals direct damage anyways.

[@minirop]

I was gonna say "that's not what barrage does" but in French, "barrage" is "block" and the French name of "barrage" is "pilonnage" (which I have indeed forgot)

[@DarkSlayerJ]

I feel like there should be a LOT more moves that "combo" with another move. Even more so with double battle stuff. The only two that come to mind off the top of my head that aren't weather based is Rollout with Defense Curl, and Stomp against Minimize. Stuff like that is really cool and could breath life into so many moves.

[@PokemonWoop]

It would also be cool if they added more moves with dual type effects like Flying Press!

[@H1_R3Z]

Fun fact: Dragon Rush actually interacts with Minimize the same way Stomp does, including bypassing the accuracy check. It's pretty funny.

[@gabrielseljen1909]

There's also the pledge moves with really cool secondary effects

[@austinreed7343]

Growth+Stomp vs Minimize Constrict with any trapping move

[@SHMOUSEY86]

Octazooka is not only learned by octopus Pokémon nor is it only on 2 evolution lines. The Horsea line also gets it as an egg move :)

[@stardf29]

My theory about Dragon Rush is that it is was purposely given 75% accuracy to give players a chance against Cynthia, by giving occasional windows to retaliate when she misses. I do like the idea of turning it into a Dragon-type Head Smash (minus 10 BP); Rock Head Tyrantrum says hi.

[@enoyna1001]

Sounds reasonable

[@Shalakor]

I'd argue Spike Canon technically isn't obscure enough to count for this subject due to being so famously associated to Cloyster with Skill Link. But making it Steel type is always a treat. Just makes sense.

[@hv433]

@@Shalakor I am really doubting this statement, especially since there's other, significantly more worthwhile things Cloyster can do instead of Spike Cannon, like Rapid Spin, Spikes, Explosion, Hydro Pump, Surf, Shell Smash, and Ice Shard. Plus, what does NORMAL add to the Ice/Rock coverage in Icicle Spear and Rock Blast?

[@Shalakor]

@@hv433 It doesn't really, just saying it's well-known. Maybe even more so for the very fact of not being particularly useful. I was being kinda pedantic I suppose.

[@remington238]

I’ve literally never seen Cloyster use it. Cloyster’s Skill Link is so much more associated with Icicle Spear and even Rock Blast for coverage

[@dresporcc]

I honestly thought that Dragon Rush and Iron Tail should still have 75% accuracy, but if those moves miss they would have a 100% chance to drop accuracy because of the dust they kick up

[@tateorourke4598]

You mentioning razor wind is great, and now makes me want sky drop/ sky attack to be actual useful moves even more

[@robertlupa8273]

Spike Cannon on Skarmory feels really fitting. It's feathers used to be used as swords according to one of its Gen 8 dex entries, so why not let it shoot those sharp feathers at its opponents?

[@pikminman13]

A move I give special mention to is mirror move. Nobody uses it when I think it has niche potential as a counterattack like copycat is. In a rom hack i made I gave it +1 priority to make it fit as a revenge move. I also moved swablu to lake verity so you can use it to attack some bosses that have coverage that’s good against them.

[@NEET_201]

I love how weirdly eerie this video is for just talking about bad/mediocre moves, honestly love the vibe, thanks for the vid

[@BlaqueT]

This was a fun little thought experiment, would definitely like to see more of these kinds of vids in the future. Thanks!

[@Volt07]

A really forgotten pokémon move is Trump Card

[@jmcbango]

Counterpoint to spike cannon: given that Spikes is a ground type move, it would be cool for spike cannon to be the same. Plus it would actually be decent coverage for all of the water types that learn it

[@IsohelXX]

Counterpoint to the counterpoint: There's no reason for Spikes to be ground type other than the fact that they're on the ground, the animation always shows the spikes themselves as metal looking

[@wafflebroz]

Makes spikes Steel type (but still immunity for flying)

[@HesGotaGun505]

It should clearly remain normal or if anything, become rock type- as all of the users hard structures or shells made of calcium.

[@PokemonWoop]

I was originally thinking of making it ground, but Spikes is only ground type because the spikes are placed on the ground

[@enoyna1001]

​@@IsohelXXWell, the Japanese name is caltrop (which is made from metal)

[@zinniaq3020]

1:13 you forgot kingdra

[@SF24_Joker]

Submission was the original Fighting type move. But, it is outclassed by most others, and in Gen 9 it was removed. The problem is that its a 80 bp, 80 acc move, that does *recoil to the user.* Now if I wanted to make a move based on a submission move, id make it so it locks the target in, and does a bit of chip over time, more like Magma Storm and Whirlpool. While it would be weaker, the trapping effect is why it would be beneficial, either alongside Perish Song or similar strategies, or just to lock in a target that the user can damage with it's other moves.

[@xandersimpson2653]

I have a completely different way to go about barrage It is still a normal type move, however this is irrelevant because each hit will use a different random type as damage (like there just throwing a barrage of random stuff) and then make it use there higher special attack stat

[@Slimeonian]

Idea for Razor Wind, what if its power could be boosted by the ability Sharpness? That would make it have 120 base power, and with the heightened Crit chance too, it could potentially do some actually good damage. On top of that, it would be one of the few special moves that Sharpness boosts I mean, the move was removed in gen 8 anyway so I guess it doesn’t matter

[@nathanikeda4184]

This was a great video to bring me back to the channel. Thank you!

[@PokemonWoop]

Glad you enjoyed it! :)

[@Samsungor]

I can't get behind barrage and egg bomb. A better idea for egg bomb would be adding the gooey effect and/or a flinch chance

[@typemasters2871]

HMs are no longer a thing but what if lackluster HM moves were buffed (besides the usual power and/or accuracy buff) Cut, increased crit chance Whirlpool, part of me wants to have the initial attack to deal significantly more damage where the trapping effect isn’t why you used the attack Rock Smash, 100% chance to decrease opponent defence by 1 stage Rock Climb, make it a ground type attack that has the ability to damage flying/levitating Pokemon Some forgotten moves I want to mention are: -Comet Punch could be fighting type bullet seed would give the move a niche -Flame Burst could be fire type aura sphere (which would mean removing it’s original niche of dealing chip damage to the non targeted Pokemon in double battles) -I would like to see Silver Wind and Signal Beam return (even if it means removing Silver Wind’s secondary effects) because currently Bug Buzz and Pollen Puff are the only decent wide spread bug special attacks

[@ezzzzyyy]

Thanks for making this video on how to fix bad moves, demonic wooper. Please don't hurt me

[@shizustrian]

All of the changes are really cool, but I would argue that Spike Cannon and Dragon Rush should be tweaked a bit more. Instead of it being a multi-hit move (which are already bad), let’s rework it into a special Steel move with similar stats and mechanics to Ceaseless Edge. Gives it utility and would be an alternative (though probably not the best) for some pokémon. Dragon Rush should keep its 100 BP, but bump it up to 90% accuracy, doing 1/4th of the damage as recoil, which would still obtain the desired effect: a move similar to Outrage, but with different mechanics to differentiate it. Also, I’ve seen some comments about Freeze Dry-esque/dual type moves, and I do think they would be cool, but could turn into a bit of a nightmare if handled carelessly. Great video though!! Really happy convos like this exist.

[@neutralitytoo]

"obviously a dragon" Ah yes Altaria, obviously 😂😂😂

[@PokemonWoop]

Altaria is clearly a dragon, not some sort of bird

[@ConnorTheUndying]

I had the idea of Rolling Kick being changed to force an enemy to target the opposite opponent it was targeting in a double battle. It gives it a strange sense of utility, and could make for some cool moments if used in conjunction with Pokemon with Flash Fire or Motor Drive.

[@umai5332]

make spike cannon a steel type triple axel that sets up spikes on each hit. maybe make each hit less likely to land, and make the damage consistent but decent to cover for this

[@aschlamishowsup]

For years I've been wanting dual-type moves. I had an idea for scald way before scald was a move, as a water/fire type move. Freezer burn as an ice/ fire type move, poison ivy as a grass/ poison move, mud blast as a water/ ground type move etc.

[@theabby_g]

babe wake up new woop video

[@clem2526]

In Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Explorers, Razor Wind is instant, keeps the crit chance, and hits every enemy in the room you're in, meaning a munchlax with belly drum can buff up in a Monster House and STAB crit the entire room lol

[@Me-dr9dv]

I didnt even know that Razor Wind existed until I played PMD Explorers of Sky

[@hiroshisantiagoendoorosco6838]

I loved the This War of Mine OST used in your video! It sounds so lonely and disturbing that turns absolutely iconic

[@bobvagana5443]

steel type spike cannon makes so much sense for skarmory since its based on a stymphalian bird which can launch their metal feathers out to attack

[@flossilovequest8961]

The entire Octazooka section was making my splatoon brain twitch, I love it

[@nullpoint3346]

Spikes is _not_ launching caltrops like bullets, it's tossing them about the opponents side of the battlefield.

[@metalgod542]

I think for a few of these moves, their existence pre-gen 4 also played a factor. Reminder, though most people know this by now, Gens 1-3 did not have a physical/special split. They're still pretty bad regardless, but that could have affected them as well.

[@ResidentTarantino]

Do a video on improving the moves that got scrubbed from the mainline games since gen 8. I'm glad you touched on Barrage considering it's basically a signature move and many new Pokémon nowadays get their own signature moves. I would fix Meditate by having it also raise special defense, making Meditate be like a mishmash of Bulk Up and Calm Mind (they could even make a new move that raises special attack and [physical] defense as another spin on the stat buff moves). Two other moves that got scrubbed that I would fix are Mud Sport and Water Sport. We're keeping their effects of weakening electric and fire moves respectively, of course. But Mud Sport would raise both defense stats of the user and its allies by 1 stage while Water Sport would raise the speed stat 1 stage while also restoring 25% of max HP (like Life Dew, but objectively better).

[@mastermuffles7097]

Too be fair, barrage is kinda just supposed to be tackle for exeggcute. Because early on, everything learned tackle, but exeggcute is multiple little guys so it gets the multiple little hits instead of a normal tackle

[@underthedice1231]

For Razor Wind, I would make it sharply raise your Crite Rate on the first turn, removing the higher crit chance from the second turn, and make its accuracy 95%. Its niche would be as a role compretion. With power herb, you could basically set up and chip at the same time. Not many mons would use it but its an option

[@blackfrieza6969]

My Silvally With Silk Scarf And Crush Claw Are Dangerous.

[@hyperbiscuit2284]

I actually had an idea for Razor Wind that's almost exactly the same, but instead of raising speed, it boosts the user's crit chance.

[@YamatoFukkatsu]

Honestly, I think some of these could be fixed through simple changes in availability. You pointed out how Octazooka is made redundant at a point where Surf is already available, so that could be given much earlier. And one thing making Razor Wind so awful is that it was exclusive to a TM in gen1 (and then gen2 made it exclusive to breeding with a Pokemon transferred from gen1..... and most bizarrely, it's the only move to have this distinction). And even though it was added to learnsets in later generations, it was still typically learned by mid-to-late-game Pokemon and/or learned at pretty high levels. Now, while taking up two turns for an 80 power attack is bad no matter how you spin it, it might actually have some utility if it's simply made available in the very early game. You know, present it as an option during a time when you're still playing around with Tackle and Scratch, maybe present it as a risk-versus-reward move with the high crit rate or some other buffs like the heightened speed suggestion, but with the drawback that it takes two turns (two turns that you could've gotten off two Tackles with similar damage output anyway but none of the other benefits).

[@OathOfRevenge]

Love the octazooka change and the editing/voiceover! PS: That forced widescreen gen 2 jumpscare at 1:37 was rough lol

[@jaycobobob]

If you grew up playing a lot of Gen 4, you probably don't consider egg bomb a super forgotten move. Grinding up my teams with Cheryl in the Eterna forest gave me a lot of chances to see that move 😂

[@christo_unlimited]

Dragon Rush does actually have 1 very strong, but very niche, hidden effect. If the target has used Minimize, then Dragon Rush bypasses the accuracy check and had double power. A few other moves have this effect as well, like Heavy Slam and (I think) Heat Crash.

[@handoverthestromboli6715]

You basically gave Blissey/Chansey Scald. Your alterations to the timeline will forever change competitive pokémon. In all seriousness, imagine being forced to switch in your physical attackers on a ~16% burn chance every time The Egg God switched into your special attackers. Also 100 power is WAY too strong, you're underestimating Blissey's special attack. Keep it as a physical move because thats much more funnier. Maybe*** if it had a maximum of 8 pp it could be played around? Even still, Scald Blissey just has "Uber for longer than Mew" aura.

[@LrnecBuma]

Razor wind keep it 80 base flying but allow it to both hit bot enemys and speed boost both allys. Gives it vgc value like the dynamax flying move that was very strong. Meteor beam has been very sucessful. So upgrading the other moves is a great startimg point

[@nickmoulton8702]

Egg bomb becoming a version of Psyshock could be interesting. Using the user's SpAtt against the target Def.

[@MegaKnuckles777]

I always though Razor Wind should be special-steel. 😅

[@mattguy1773]

Oh hey a cool crossover video between forgotten and underpower

[@PokemonWoop]

I thought it would be a cool little throwback and content experiment :D

[@arestheprime9178]

Great video! With the videos about lost items and moves, I think it would be good to bring one about forgotten abilities

[@PokemonWoop]

Thanks! Yeah, I've thought about making a video about forgotten abilities for a while, although it would be trickier. Maybe useless abilities?

[@arestheprime9178]

@@PokemonWoop Illuminate comes to mind when it comes to useless abilities, as it has no effect in battle, but its effect outside of battle is to increase the encounter rate with wild Pokémon by 100% when it is the first Pokémon in the party

[@craniifer]

Those signature moves like Octazooka and the like always make it onto my mons moveset. They feel weird without it.

[@salmon-stan]

If a move seems to be lacking a feature that should be obvious from the name, it’s probably because of something funky with how the Japanese name was localized into English. For example, Razor Wind being Normal-type: the Japanese name is _Kamaitachi,_ a reference to a yokai. Kamaitachi are weasels that, while riding on a gust of wind, attack with sickle-like claws. The damage of Razor Wind may originally have been dealt by the Pokémon’s claws or talons rather than the wind itself. Since non-Japanese players wouldn’t be familiar with this yokai, it’s possible it was changed to blades of wind in the description without updating the typing to match. This is the same reason why the ability Bulletproof protects against some moves that aren’t obviously bomb, ball or cannon-related, like Acid Spray. The Japanese name includes some phrase like “ball” or “bomb” that they didn’t keep in English since they didn’t know at the time that it’d be relevant later. Also caused them problems with Mr. Mime being male or female (the Japanese name, Barrierd, isn’t gendered).

[@AudioGAWD]

In gen 3, for some reason, I used an Absol with Razor wind smh.

[@PokemonWoop]

Madman

[@pikminman13]

95% accuracy is one of the worst move tropes because while 90 at least encourages you to make a decision in team building sometimes 95 is basically “do you want to just occasionally lose or waste your item slot on wide lens”

[@PokemonWoop]

So many Gen 1 moves are strangely inaccurate. Not sure why they thought that moves missing a ton would be fun

[@alcor3372]

Why is this edited like a true crime video essay lmao

[@protol5683]

There actually IS a reason that Gamefreak made so many normal type moves beck in Gen 1 and I find the reasoning to be really, really interesting. I can’t remember WHERE I heard this, might have been a dev interview or a game guide, something of that nature, but the official reason for so many normal moves exiting is because they’re meant to serve as your standard attack option. Like, in a normal RPG, you’ll have a button that’s just a regular, no-nonsense attack, and then there’ll be a separate menu to access your magic/special moves. Pokémon was originally designed with a sort of similar philosophy, normal moves are (usually) dependable, easy to predict and understand moves that can hit anything except for the major exceptions of rock and ghost types. Other types are meant to be more special, out-of-pocket options to throw out whenever Normal moves won’t do the trick. I imagine when the devs designed the original Red/Blue/Yellow, they assumed that players would be attacking basically everything with tackles, bites, and body slams, and only save their flamethrowers and surfs and thunderbolts for when they really needed them. Obviously using your special moves and taking advantage of type matchups all the time ended up being a lot more fun, so later games shifted the design to encourage that instead. This left a lot of “Standard issue” normal type moves feeling kinda pointless and redundant because their purpose is completely overwritten by both better normal type moves, and equally powerful moves of other types.

[@PokemonWoop]

Hm, I think I recall reading something like that. Still though it would be nice for them to retcon a lot of these moves

[@GeorgeDCowley]

1:30 I like how you don't say its secondary effect at all. 4:00 Bone/shell spikes.

[@MishKoz]

I think turning Dragon Rush into basically a dragon-type version of Head Smash might be a bit overtuned. The best physical Dragon move is Outrage, and Dragon Claw isn't really comparable in power. The downside for Outrage is that it basically gives your opponent a free Fairy switch-in, so while it's super strong, it carries a _massive_ risk. With buffed Dragon Rush, because you're not locked in, you're at way less of a disadvantage for even more power. Imo the new recoil and accuracy are fine but the power should stay at 100.

[@micahperoulis]

This luminal documentary style video is excellent.

[@AmericanChoirboy]

I would add for barrage that the accuracy check happens 5 times in a row, instead of just being able to miss outright. in which case you might lower it.

[@Celon549]

Some of these moves, you can see what Game Freak was going for, like with Dragon Rush. But some of these other moves are just complete non-moves, like with Razor Wind. Granted, you and I have some different takes on these moves, so here’s mine. Octazooka - It’s learned upon Octillery evolving at Level 25, so you could probably keep it at 65 BP and just increase its accuracy to 95%. Or, you could move Octazooka to a late level and buff it up to, say, 85 BP 90% accuracy. Even a 50% chance to drop accuracy is nasty, so I feel like 120 BP would be a bit ridiculous even at 75% accuracy. If you want some extra power though, you could just modify Octillery and give it Mega Launcher, and then have Mega Launcher boost Octazooka, but I digress. Crush Claw - You know what? I’m with you on this one. Just make it Normal Liquidation. Spike Cannon - I see you’re also a fan of SmithPlays Pokemon making this move Steel-type. Basically, yeah. Just make it a Steel-type Icicle Spear at 25 BP per hit and give it to more mons. Dragon Rush - While I do like your idea of making it a Dragon-type Double-Edge, I actually think keeping that Flinch rate would be ideal, for one reason. Sheer Force Druddigon. Druddigon doesn’t learn this move normally, but having access to a 100 BP STAB move boosted by Sheer Force would be utterly insane. Now with that said, my only change to Dragon Rush would be to just bump it up to 90% accuracy. Basically make it a Dragon-type Crabhammer. Egg Bomb - I like the Burn chance you gave it. That’s cool. I would make it a Grass-type special attack though, since the move can actually deal damage based on Exeggutor’s seeds, rather than from Blissey’s eggs. I’d keep it 100 BP, and maybe make it 90% accurate with that Burn rate. Razor Wind - So I would just take away this move’s charge turn all together, and then bump it up to 90 BP. Basically, just a Special version of Leaf Blade. I’d keep it as a Normal-type move as well, purely for Mega Pidgeot. I’d let Pidgeot have the move, and this could finally give Mega Pidgeot a strong Normal-type STAB that isn’t Hyper Beam and makes more sense for Pidgeot than Hyper Voice. Heliolisk, Girafarig, and Drampa would also all be able to make use of it as well. Barrage - Yeah, I had pretty much the same idea as you, though I’d go 25 BP for hit with it and just have Barrage be learned later. Exeggcute does get to learn moves like Absorb early these days, so it can just use that to hold off.

[@Reinoiro]

I'm actually a massive fan of dragon rush despite the accuracy. Exclusively because the animation is really cool and it's satisfying when it does land, no practical reasons whatsoever

[@kenshiro8984]

dragon rush + head smash tyrantrum would go crazy

[@shadowkirbae4289]

Spike Cannon should probably also get buffed from 20 to 25 power per hit, like some of the other multi-hit moves are now. Rock Blast, Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, Scale Shot for example all have 25 Power.

[@crusatyr1452]

I find it so funny how this is edited like a 1hr LORE EXPLAINED video for the newest analogue horror ARG

[@15_heidune72]

I personally would like Razor Wind to be a stronger version of Air Slash that is 100% accurate but has a lower chance to flinch. Then there's a move that fills the niche of the 80+ damage special flying type move.

[@Subatomicfish]

You leave my barrage + spike cannon smeargle (in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon) alone!

[@j9057]

i really like your razor wind buff idea, sounds fun to use also, very entertaining video, good job :)

[@PokemonWoop]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@slammy118]

Putting rolling kick in the thumbnail but not the video is crazy

[@McC0n0r]

100% agree that GameFreak should rework/buff a lot of the shitty moves. We really don't need 900 versions of Fury Swipes... You had some neat ideas that would make great additions to the game! One can only hope GameFreak will eventually feel the same.

[@hex1233]

I remember Barrage because I loved Exeggutor when I was a kid and I had to suffer through the awful early levels every time I played Gold.

[@Gayoinion]

I love the kinda analog horror aesthetic of your videos

[@The_DJMITRI]

I don't give a f@ck if this was here, but Triple Kick should have the same power as Triple Axel

[@relicy]

i always imagined spike cannon should be rock type since it is learned by lots of rock types.

[@mimimechanism]

Dragon Rush is amazing on Dunsparce with Serene Grace, bringing it up to 40% flinch chance, it's awesome~

[@edgargaebolg9307]

Headbutt better tho

[@Tony_AM009]

I like the idea of buffing moves that either were never relevant or are not as useful as they could be. If it weren't for the fact that its Japanese name means "Consecutive Punch", I would make Comet Punch into a Rock or Fairy type attack with an a base power of 20 and a base accuracy of 90% or ideally 100%. There's only one change that I would make to Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Fire Pledge, Water Pledge, Grass Pledge, Self-Destruct, and Explosion: have those moves count as physical or special attacks depending on which of the user's attacking stat is higher after taking into account any stat changes. There are moves that I wish got this effect, rather than being exclusive to Shell Side Arm, Photon Geyser, and The Light That Burns The Sky.

[@MarvinPowell1]

Besides Leech Life being mentioned in the comments, one thing that annoys me are moves of the same type that have virtually the same effect and power. Like Bubblebeam and Water Pulse, or Aerial Ace, Pluck, and Wing Attack. I think the move without secondary effects should be stronger than the moves that can confuse or never miss.

[@garryame4008]

The Master ball on the Zangoose is killing me

[@nolongeraperson]

Dunno why that would bother you when he had 12 of them. 😂