MORE Pokemon Moves Forgotten In Time

[@joeytheslimeboi8900]

I think Spike Cannon being removed is pretty tragic since it gives Cloyster a 100% accurate 100 base power normal move

[@CyberchaoX]

Agreed. Skill Link Pokémon getting a number of multi-hit moves is nothing out of the ordinary, like when Heracross suddenly got Pin Missile, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast upon gaining its Mega Evolution. Cloyster is one of the most well-known Skill Linkers and while Normal isn't a great attacking type, it is a good choice for coverage.

[@SovekOnivris]

Cloyster has always been a bit of a favorite of mine, not a top fav when I was younger but 100% grown on me more as times gone on, and anytime I used one I let it keep Spike Cannon. I have never cared about "competitive" pokemon, probably because I skipped from Crystal to Moon since I had stopped playing pokemon after gen 2 for a long time outside of an emulated fire red run and getting a used copy of heart gold about a year before moon came out. So it never felt like a wasted move since against the AI its perfectly serviceable.

[@joeytheslimeboi8900]

@@SovekOnivris Colyster’s hidden ability skill link guarantees that all multi hit moves will always hit five times which means all the ones cloyster gets are between like base 80 and base 120 and some get stab as well, so cloyster losing Spike cannon sucks extra hard

[@r-18altaccount85]

​@@CyberchaoXnews flash: if a pokemon relies on a normal-type move for coverage, that pokemon is not good

[@PokemonWoop]

Doesn't it already have Icicle Spear?

[@Namingway248]

skull bash is a perfectly serviceable move for casual play as one is going through the story imo. I think having quirky moves that might not be great creates intrigue and fun to be had in the early game, even if its worthless in the post-game

[@M_Alexander]

It's definitely more interesting when moves aren't just X amount of damage in different types

[@CyberchaoX]

Agreed. As far as 2-turn moves that don't make you semi-invulnerable on turn 1 go, Skull Bash is one of the better ones because it at least gives you a stat boost. Certainly a lot better than Razor Wind or Sky Attack.

[@silverhetch3383]

@@CyberchaoX yeah razor wind is cool but not that useful

[@BrianSilva-oc7xg]

I don't like how most new moves are just different type versions of pre-existing moves or signature moves.

[@M_Alexander]

@@BrianSilva-oc7xg sometimes I think about Jade Cocoon 2 where there are only four "types" but they each have a different specialty. Water focuses on healing and resists the status effects of Wind that work well on Fire which is needed to overpower Earth's defenses or something like that

[@Frog_Dogger]

I remember Razor Wind for being annoying in Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon. Since the attack hits the entire room, enemy Pokemon can snipe you from far away and crit you more often while doing so. The 'charge turn' for most attacks in Mystery Dungeon is just a single step, making the attack quick to use as well. A good few weird niche moves are actually pretty powerful in Mystery Dungeon. Essentially all multi-hit moves are OP, so Spike Cannon and Barrage are actually really good.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, Mystery Dungeon had some unique move mechanics. I remember fury attack being a huge problem in those games

[@Frog_Dogger]

@PokemonWoop I recall a Fearow one-shotting my Tyranitar with Fury Attack, but a Togekiss from the same dungeon did like 1/3 of my health with Aura Sphere. I'm pretty sure Sandstorm wasn't even active.

[@robertlupa8273]

Agility is broken iirc because it allows you to move twice per turn.

[@aurelienlouesdon9880]

@@robertlupa8273 Yes, remember those Aerodactyl in sky tower ? Plus, Agility applied to all allies ( or enemy ) in the room .

[@suwazo1545]

Skull Bash is far from forgettable, at least to the player, for being in the level up learnset of a starter. I would never use it now but back then i would just pick the coolest sounding moves.

[@NurioMarayana]

It's also used a fair amount in the anime, too

[@ImFangzBro]

Also it's in Smash Bros. as Pikachu's Side-B.

[@bbunkki_4720]

Also gen 5

[@arthurfidas7254]

Smelling salts saved me during my Elite Four run in Pokémon sapphire. I had Makuhita with me since Granite Cave and evolved it into Hariyama. During my final fight with Steven I was down to my final Pokémon in Hariyama. Manectric had already paralyzed metagross and all my pp for earthquake was gone and I couldn’t risk it on focus punch. I used smelling salts and the double power was just enough to knock out metagross

[@Cyntaria]

I would've thought a stab brick break or similarly powered fighting move doing neutral damage as opposed to a resisted normal type move would do more damage. Glad you defeated the metagross though

[@arthurfidas7254]

@@Cyntaria I ran out of brick break pp fighting glacia

[@captaincaterpie]

honestly i had a hariyama in my first few runs and i used smelling salts a lot, it was a move that I just thought was neat. it's just one of those moves that i thought was special so it was needed.

[@Skullhawk13]

@@arthurfidas7254the dark days before infinite leppa berries 😢

[@Abyss_WaIker]

Conversion was actually really good in Gen 7 thanks to its Z move giving you an omni-boost

[@LuigiTheMetal64]

If you have Swallow Return/Aerial Ace on Porygon 1, 2, or Z, have the move in the first slot, and have Texture/Conversion turn the Pokémon into a Flying-type. Pretty cool.

[@kennethaninon6913]

Conversion on Porygon-Z makes Porygon-Z OP due to its Adaptability ability........

[@DracoX-hz3tu]

​@@LuigiTheMetal64i used psychic on mine due to still giving that fighting resist while actually being a good special move and not a useless physical move

[@doomgirl5341]

​@@DracoX-hz3tudid that with shadow ball so I became immune to fighting. Diet tera at home

[@Mimiyan_or_Pikapikafan]

Wait really wow

[@Airlord3670]

I imagine Nightmare might have been intended to counter Gen 2’s very Rest heavy meta-game, as there were a lot of bulky pokemon that couldn’t really heal any other way. Get them on the turn they rested, and you’d do half damage and whatever else you wanted to do.

[@OswaldAurelia]

Yeah, that's part of why Jynx is really great in gen 2

[@NickCapricorn]

I find hard to believe that Game Freak, from all developing studios, would have the ability to test the game they were making to the point of developing the meta that ended up developing for real anyway, and consciously add a move to fight that meta. They couldn't even get the game to fit in a cartridge and had to be rescued by Iwata, you're giving them too much credit.

[@Airlord3670]

@@NickCapricorn Even a broken Game Freak can be right twice a gen? Tbf it didn’t work and their attempt to Fireproof a gen or two clearly went nowhere

[@xyannail4678]

​@@Airlord3670They did the first five or six gens right; don't discredit what they did right.

[@Airlord3670]

@@xyannail4678 Game freak’s coding has always been famously broken with plenty of unbalanced gameplay, useless types, failed mechanics etc. I love Pokémon and millions still love and play the older gens to this day regardless but let’s not just ignore the faults of the past for nostalgia.

[@KogasaTatara514]

I remember running a Darkrai with Dark Void and Nightmare back in gen 6. I just loved the combo of Bad Dreams and Nightmare dealing a ton of damage to sleeping opponents. It was absolutely not viable, but fun to pull off.

[@Kreceir]

And then Smeargle came along and nerfed dark void into the ground lol.

[@theredlioness2502]

I have fond memories of using a Haunter with Hypnosis, Nightmare, and Dream Eater in Diamond, back when I was a kid. It definitely wasn't the most efficient approach, but kid!me got a bit of a power trip out of making those poor NPCs watch their pokemon slowly die while being unable to do anything about it. It probably helped that I typically used Yawn with Uxie before switching into Haunter too lol, Hypnosis never seems to hit! I've tried using Nightmare as an adult but it just doesn't hit the same anymore. :(

[@dasamont8274]

I enjoyed using a Shuckle with Bad Dreams, Spore, and Nightmare in a hackmon playthrough I did recently. It wasn't exactly good, but the npcs don't really stand much of a chance.

[@williamdrum9899]

​@@KreceirAll they had to do was make the move only work if Darkrai used it. But no, they had to destroy the move entirely

[@kryzethx]

I remember my first online battle in Pokemon Battle Revolution was getting swept by a Darkrai with Dark Void and Nightmare in a double battle lmao

[@TrackMasterAsh]

Powder was such a sick move. Had so much doubles potential by stopping fire types from using a fire move and dealing 1/4 HP. Plus it was nice that a bug move had a one up on fire types

[@LEO_M1]

I used Nightmare on my Darkrai in Platinum. Dark Void + Nightmare + Bad Dreams was a cheesy but fun strat.

[@lunayoshi]

The first time I ever tried PVP double battle in Gen 6, someone sent out a Darkrai with that moveset. I forget what the second pokemon was, but it didn't even matter. Darkrai outsped all of my pokemon, hit them with Dark Void, and Nightmared them all to death. I haven't done PVP battles since.

[@xyannail4678]

You mean Dream Eater right?

[@francescganau7679]

I think if Powder lasted for 5 turns, it would be intereting. Not good per se, but being able to nulify Fire moves for 5 turns may lead to very interesting gimmicks in the style of weakness policy or entrainment

[@cristhianmontoya6648]

5 turns a bit too much. 3 turns is more reasonable

[@MustacheDLuffy]

I think five turns is good there aren’t that many cases where you’re going to be going up against a fire type

[@kirkendauhl6990]

I think five is reasonable but should be play tested if they bring it back. However I think they should also allow it to be nullified as well, so moves like rapid spin or sandstorm can remove it reliably

[@francescganau7679]

@@cristhianmontoya6648 I feel 5 turns is reasonable, as long as only vivillion has it. it may be overpowered if other Pokemon had it, but Vivillion is mediocre enough to pull 5 turns without it being OP

[@grandmastr2602]

@@MustacheDLuffyyeah cause stealth rock already is nerfing them why would they need another move nerfing the type for 5 turns it’s definitely too much

[@ve1413]

My favorite forgotten moves gotta be the strange line of dark status type moves that are really creative but ultimately underwhelming in practice, being Torment, Embargo and finally, Quash. They’re like Taunt’s long lost cousins. Oh and also Heart Stamp. Everybody loves Heart Stamp

[@liammallen95]

has anyone ever actually figured out how to use Snatch - think it was tm 49 in gen 3. i always imagined it working lke mimic or copycat but could never get it to work or understand it even.

[@greenbean501]

@@liammallen95 it only works if the opponent is using a status move on the same turn

[@bakurasensei]

Quash is actually pretty good on prankster sableye lol

[@Skullhawk13]

Quash is a beast in doubles

[@akxareth]

What's funny is even though I've never seen Skull Bash used in the games (either by me or NPCs), it's still pretty fresh on my mind as a move that exists because it's been one of Pikachu's (and Pichu's) special moves in Smash since 2001.

[@Skullhawk13]

And Pikachu only learned it in ONE Gen too!

[@grunkleg.2934]

Powder in Gen 8 was for sure an oversight. Kinesis had the exact opposite thing happen, where until the Crown Tundra update, it had the deleted move description, even though Kadabra and Alakazam could learn the move in the Isle of Armor

[@berserkerciaran]

Skull Bash and Nightmare are among my favourite moves. Also, IIRC, Pikachu's Side Smash in Super Smash Bros. is supposed to be Skull Bash

[@oz0006]

Side special

[@berserkerciaran]

@@oz0006 Right, Side Special. I got confused, thanks for pointing it out

[@dannybright8708]

Which is very weird, since Pikachu can’t even learn Skull Bash in the games. If anything it should’ve been Squirtle’s side special.

[@Animenite97]

@@dannybright8708 I...assume Pikachu could learn it as a TM in gen 1. but I haven't checked. regardless, why it is still in his moveset lol. just give it an electrical effect and call it Spark.

[@alexleven8266]

Conversion 2 was actually featured in a whole battle CD in XD! There was a Graveler that'd always use explosion on its second turn, and you only had a Hitmonlee and Porygon 2 with no moves that could come close to killing it, so you had to use Hitmonlee's tackle on P2, then have the P2 use conversion 2 to be able to survive the explosion!

[@aurelienlouesdon9880]

Conversion was funny to used in gen 7 because as z move it became ... conversion z, matching porygon z name. A good move because it boosted all your stat while allowing you to change type, a bit like tera nowaday

[@vyor8837]

God tera is broken.

[@sbclaridge]

Z-Conversion Omniboost + Type Change + Adaptability was a pretty potent combination for Gen 7 Porygon-Z. Despite the loss of Z-Moves (which made Conversion and its type change not viable), Porygon-Z even used Adaptability to its benefit during Gen 8 as well, packing an extremely-powerful Max Strike (usually from Hyper Beam) while Dynamaxed.

[@nihiluna]

@@sbclaridge gen 7 1v1s Z-Conversion was a MENACE, that thing was so strong

[@RioluLucario1994]

I remember Skull Bash being the Squirtle line's signature move in Gen 2. I legitimately didn't know Powder was a move until reading a Fanfiction where a Vivillon used it in battle

[@ydyt8870]

I actually used a Skull Bash Blastoise before and he actually did fairly good lol

[@SovekOnivris]

if i remember right one of the rental pokemon for its line has it for at least one of the pokemon stadium tournaments and it got me through a few rounds there

[@lilpetz500]

Right? I was a Pokemon Yellow kid, but out if the trio the Blastoise line earned big points with having such a cool and rare move. And I feel like if something has to have a 2 turn attack, a bulky defensive tortoise is a good option.

[@TM30ShadowBall]

Actually, there is one other Pokémon line that could learn Powder prior to Gen 8, the Cutiefly line via breeding. And since the Cutiefly line did make it into SwSh, that makes the theory that Powder was originally meant to be kept in the game a tiny bit more believable, assuming they were going to bump Powder from just being an egg move for Cutiefly to a level-up move.

[@gregomyeggo4639]

I love how ridiculously dramatic these videos are for such a light topic like obscure Pokémon moves lmao

[@gengarcrobat1576]

Nightmare was actually pretty useful in gen 2 competitive play by punishing the many Pokemon that relied on using Rest as recovery

[@jacobmorris6357]

I remember using powder in my mono bug run in pokemon Y actually. I dont remember how much use i got out of it, but it was super fun anyway

[@rogue5648]

6:46 the lets go eevee moves should have been distributed to eeveelutions as their signautre moves

[@francescganau7679]

Spike cannon and barrage, alongside egg bomb, are a relic of Gen I's original game design. Back then, Normal-type moves were seen as the "standard" moves of an RPG (i.e. hit with a sword, punch...) and non-Normal-type moves were seen as "magic" tricks pulled off by "magical" creatures (ice beams, psychic powers...). Hence, it makes sense to give signature moves to non-Normal-types that are not STAB if these signature moves do not use their "magic". Why I never understood, though, is why Normal-types get a STAB moves on Normal moves. Based on this principle, these moves should be sort of "typeless", this is why they are so widespead. STAB gives Normal-type Pokémon an advantage as they can make use of the most powerful moves everyone gets, but with a bonus

[@makenshao9886]

Well the thing is that normal types getting stab isn't as much of a game design concern when you realize most normal types in gen I are terrible. Tauros, Snorlax and Chansey are very much "prestige" pokemon that stand head and shoulders above the others for being much harder to obtain. Just think about how the other members of the Normal type like Lickitung, Pidgeotto, Raticate, Wigglytuff, etc. just kinda...exist and are serviceable in game but aren't good when put in any competitive environment.

[@autobotstarscream765]

For the same reason Normal was made a type at all instead of just making the whole thing typeless. It hits literally nothing for super-effective damage but they really wanted a "Beast-type" to represent Normal animals in their totally not a cockfighting simulator. Fortunately, they seem to have changed it from the NOrmal-type to the Omni-Type representing all types mixed together into a jack of all trades types representing the divine creation power of Arceus, considering its gimmick is to pluck a little from everything such as their wide movepools, some of them changing types, and Eevee evolving into Eeveelutions of many different types.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, sadly, Pokemon's original battle design philosophies haven't aged well at all. Still, it makes it strange how the game is centered around the type chart

[@francescganau7679]

@@autobotstarscream765 It is a weird combination of "typeless", "mammal" and "bird" types. Like, Porygon-Z and Castform are one thing imo, very different from Kangaskhan/Slaking/Purugly, or Noctowl/Chatot/Fearow.

[@bluegum6438]

I suppose they could have initially envisioned Normal being "balanced" because it can't hit anything super-effectively, but of course it's better to be able to 2HKO an entire team than OHKO one or two.

[@jonolivier9126]

Hilariously ironic that I've used all of these moves for a while. The biggest reach is Nightmare because I only used it in Mystery Dungeon when trying to fiddle around with the Puppet status effect (which is it's own little rabbit hole), but other than that I've genuinely used all of these.

[@SinisterPixel]

Honestly Spike Cannon always felt like it should be a Steel type move to me. The only multi hit steel type move we have is Gear Grind which is only two attacks and is only available to the Klink line, so it would have filled in a good niche. I think a lot of deleted moves would have been able to fill in a good niche if they just had their types change/were available to more Pokemon. The other one I thought was interesting was Smelling Salts. Imagine how good that would be if it had that effect on *every* status condition in the game. You could pair Hariyama (or any other Pokemon that learned it) with a toxic spikes setter and use it to sweep.

[@kavaler1471]

“making its own death bed never knowing it was already dead in the first place” is such a hard line

[@zate5355]

I like the lowkey and eerie music you use over this. Gives a nice mysterious feeling.

[@elconejofunco]

Spike Cannon was actually cool in the Pokemon Adventures manga. Lorelei had her Cloyster use it and have her Dewgong freeze the spikes. I imagine that was the inspiration for Icicle Spear.

[@Wolfbane1677]

Why do I remember all these moves, and this guy doesn't? I mean I used skullbash on my Blastoise for a short while and I understand why people say it's bad because it just increases your Pokemon defense instead of actually protecting them, hell I wish they made it where skull bash actually summons protect on your pokemon instead of raising the Pokemon's defense.

[@MidniteMNS]

Regarding Powder in Gen 8: It's effectively a (very rare) HOME transfer move for Cutiefly and Ribombee, who could get it from breeding with a Vivillon that knew the move in USUM.

[@DocDoesGamingTV]

Hearing about some of these moves makes me feel *ancient* for having used them

[@chineseman6580]

Considering the Hariyama on Victory Road, I saw Smelling Salt often while grinding for levels. I also knew about powder because of another video.

[@epu7539]

I've watched the two videos of this series and I've recognized every single Pokémon move on this list... I don't know how to feel about it...

[@KonroMan]

I love Skull Bash, I wish more Pokémon learned it.

[@yoshisreal]

I find it more insulting that Razor Wind isn’t a Flying-type move, rather than it just being a mediocre move.

[@cowkip]

The more of these moves I remember it makes sense that a lot of Pokemon moves got cut. For Example Like what was the point of play nice? Its just growl and most pokemon that learn play nice also learns growl

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, it feels like Game Freak is realizing how many filler moves there were in the old gens

[@NotAnElk]

I think the purpose of most of these filler moves is just to give the player an edge against the random AI trainers. If the enemy has tackle, growl, leer, and play nice, that means they only have a 25% chance to actually attack you (compared to 33% if Play Nice weren't there), so if you're a 5 year old child playing the game hitting buttons at random, you're relatively likely to get through the trainers. I think this is also why so many early gen movesets suck. TM's and Move Tutors mean the player has access to more moves than enemy trainers, who usually just have their level up learnsets, have access to. That in addition to Stat Experience/EV's means the player's Pokemon are more likely to win, but in a way that kind of hides the fact that the scales are tipped in your favor.

[@nichiyes26]

A lot of the Gen 1 Normal-type moves remind me how much more of a normal RPG RGBY felt like. Most moves were normal, and the elemental moves were special techniques. The Special stat isn't even split because it's acting more like a "Magic" stat in other games. Gen 2 things started shifting, but it was still basically an expansion to Gen 1. Then RS almost rebooted the series, this time very clearly as Pokemon games, which by that point had come to define their own category of games in which the elements take center stage.

[@williamdrum9899]

That was kind of the theme of Gen 1. Voltorb, Koffing, Grimer, Vileplume... These all seem like Final Fantasy inspired

[@pearl3scent]

Nightmare Noctowl helped me cheese Red. Level 47 vs. 70s. It was so funny.

[@jabrown]

The first Pokémon game I played was Blue and the most recent was Sun. I'm actually a bit upset that they removed moves in Sword and Shield, wasn't aware of that until I saw this video. Some of these moves you mentioned, like Skull Bash, are actually not obscure to me but very familiar.

[@raydespoir]

11:15 - Well that was morbid. At first I thought I was overthinking, but you definitely enjoy adding a creepy forlorn type of vibe to your videos. The music, and some of the dark empty backgrounds can't be mere coincidence.

[@flyingcookie2417]

Smelling salt actually sounds interesting to give to pokemon.... That's likes to settle, since paralysis can help the pokemon settle and by the point they finish they either death of just powerful enough to defeat the enemy pokemon whit a 140 base power (maybe even higher whit stab) and paralysis don't really matter if the pokemon is out

[@kylespevak6781]

"If you've got to wait a turn you might be dead before you can use it" Why I tend to not use any setup moves lmfao

[@Yuzrnaime]

Okay, so recently I was searching through Electrodes's Gen 6 moveset because I wanted to try my hand at fixing some of the ORAS gym leaders, and I came across a move that I legitimately forgot about, Magnetic Flux. It just raises the defensive stats of Plus and Minus Pokemon, so you're not really missing much.

[@tylerdenny5428]

I know most of these moves and now I feel old.

[@samachu09]

This video series is more like "Bad Pokémon moves". The only forgotten move for me in this video is Powder. I have 1000s of hours in Pokémon and looked up move sets for various Pokémon so this video is more suited for those that started playing Pokémon gen 5 and above. If you need to impress a lifelong fan like me, you'd need to dig a LOT deeper.

[@RaisedThird]

Exactly. skull bash and razor wind are not at all forgotten, they’re just underwhelming.

[@Pichudiamond3]

Head Smash is nowhere near as terrible as you make it sound. Granted, it’s not amazing, and there are so many better moves than it, but it’s really not a terrible move by any means.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, it's not horrible, but a 130 power two-turn move is still pretty awful, especially when you have access to far more practical moves. I believe it was also only 100 power in Gen 1

[@CeleryX5]

You mean Skull Bash. Head Smash is a MUCH better move on the right Pokémon.

[@TheRestedOne]

I always figured smelling salt was suited for double battles with a fighting-resist partner. Though there weren’t enough of them in the games to test that theory.

[@dewantouhid116]

Gen6 really hated dragon types"

[@NEET_201]

talking about powder moves, the hatterene line gets a special signature move called "Magic Powder", it literally just changes the type of the mon it hits into a psychic type, a very weird and useless move they added in a generation where they where removing moves in mass especially useful moves like Hidden Power and Pursuit

[@arranisnailo7795]

Nightmare saw play in gen 2 due to the prominence of rest and sleeptalk

[@TheDenssy]

Man the hate towards dragon type was so extreme in six gen, no new dragon moves, the best ones got nerfed, underwhelming new dragon mons, the fairy type, misty terrain dropping dragon moves potency for no apparent reason

[@CapnYouKnowWho]

I'm not going to claim Skull Bash and Razor Wind are great moves, but the way you describe them does make you sound kind of biased. The moves worked just fine in my experience, and didn't ever cause me more trouble than most other 2-turn or low accuracy moves.

[@sanninjiraiya]

I recall reading that Game Freak didn't add dragon moves in Gen 6 as part of their attempt to rebalance the type. Dragons had been running rampant competitively and in addition to introducing fairy type, they decided to not add any new moves.

[@Meteorite_Shower]

Skull Bash still sees some use in Pokémon Go. While it does still take a while to charge up, it's also still a 130 attack that increases your defense.

[@tabbender1232]

It's crazy that i was so much into pokemon back in the gen 4-5 days that i knew about every single one of these except Powder (which was introduced in gen 6) Spending hours in the battle tower in Diamond is probably how i learned about most of these considering how weird some of the sets there are

[@ProfOak-ci2cc]

Damn gen 6 really said fk dragons huh

[@zetafish7347]

This move isn't particularly bad, but I don't see any Pokemon other than Treecko learning Pound. I think maybe Piplup gets it too but I'm too lazy to check. It's basically the third scratch/tackle, yet it's so uncommon compared to the other two. You'd think a starting move such as this one wouldn't be collecting so much dust.

[@rune4543]

Fun fact: razor wind was INCREDIBLY buffed in Blue Kaizo, which I think is the only time where it is legitimately good. It was buffed to be a one turn, hyper beam power level normal move with flinch chance. You can buy the TM from the Celadon Mart and it doesn't even feel broken because you really need all the help you can get.

[@mouser7]

I mentioned this in a comment in the last video, but I feel there’s a kicking move that’s even more obscure then triple kick. Rolling Kick is the only move I was surprised to have discovered exists. It’s 60 bp, incredibly inaccurate, and has a chance to make the target flinch. It was an exclusive move of hitmonlee, but now can be learned by only it, top, and marshadow, though it doesnt matter as there are farr better fighting moves for them to learn. Even in gen 1, it gets outclassed by the jump kicks. Triple Kick has an interesting gimmick where it increases in power with each hit while Rolling Kick has absolutely nothing going for it.

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, that move is pretty terrible. Hitmonlee has no need to run it

[@primiera1484]

i wish they'd actually tried tweaking some of these to be actually better, 900 moves but basically every mon of a given type just used the same ones

[@PokemonWoop]

Yeah, Game Freak should tweak more moves instead of removing them

[@waterierStone]

You could actually get Ribombee in gen 8, and it could learn powder in gen 7 through breeding. So you had to Island scan a scatterbug on a thursday in Hau'oli city, then level it up to level 55, then breed it with a Cutiefly to get one with powder as an egg move, then transfer it to pokemon box, then to pokemon home, then to pokemon sword and shield, then you can use powder in that game. I'm not sure if you can even get one anymore since they stopped the 3ds store. I don't know if they support the pokemon box app anymore either.

[@ascriptmaster]

Pokemon Bank is still supported if you already have it, but if you didn't get it before the 3DS shop closed, you're indeed out of luck.

[@DryBones271]

Nightmare has one small Niche use. When used on Komala (a gen 7 Pokémon) it would never go away, since Komala is always sleeping.

[@cathallynch1]

This is where Pokémon has developed itself into a bind. Either new moves will be broken and OP or automatically undermined by extant moves. It's the same fundamental issue with Pokémon - it's too fundamental.

[@franksony1992]

4:58 Nightmare was a useful counter against Rest/Sleeptalk. As a lot of tanks (looking at you Snorlax) used Rest, Nightmare strips down at least half the health before waking up. 9:28 Did soback in Gen 2

[@ByonLe7]

Funny enough that I actually remember and use both Skull Bash and Razor Wind during my childhood playing Gen 3 Pokemon Sapphire. The reason? Razor wind animation is cool af for me as a kid. While the Skull Bash is because me and my friend were watching Charizard vs Magmar on the Pokemon Anime and we think it was cool, and yea it was. I don't remember nor I know the other moves haha

[@mitchc.2660]

I was surprised that there was no Conversion 3 or Conversion Z. I assumed there would be one for each Porygon evolution as it upgrades, it also gets an upgraded Conversion.

[@Knuckles9000]

“There are no new Ground type moves in SV” Great Tusk: Am I a joke to you?

[@KiryuuYoshiya]

nightmare being a tm in gen2 that you could teach to almost every pokemon was most likely a counter to rest strats. cant beat reds snorlax? just eat its dreams lol. people in competitive spamming rest? just use dream eater. is it a good move? not really. can it work in niche situations? sure

[@RetroNC]

Hear me out: the same concept, but for abilities - there's also some great stuff like the Gen 3 ability Cacophany, which was an ability that no Pokemon had and went on to never be used! Awesome vid btw, glad to see an another awesome creator get a start in the Pokémon KZbinr community!🎉

[@PokemonWoop]

Sounds interesting! I was also thinking of talking about Pokemon's oldest, obscure items

[@JosephShemelewski]

I vaguely remember a couple of these but most are really buried under crazy circumstances its really cool to learn about them

[@namejaik6773]

I felt the same way about Powder when I learned about it a year or so ago, it made its way over to Ribombee's line as an egg move!

[@majesticglass]

I wanna see a nightmare only pokemon run now

[@PokemonWoop]

That sounds like a nightmare... literally

[@crownedcrow7745]

What's even sadder about nightmare is it eventually got turned into an ability called bad dreams which made it even more insignificant.

[@diaperfang5293]

10:47 I did that as a kid, kept Razor Wind on him for some damn reason lol, wish I could remember why

[@treespawned7844]

1:35 Glad to hear my meme helped you out

[@electricspirit3600]

Razor Wind is probably best known by Mystery Dungeon fans because the move is one of the earliest available room wide spread moves. It’s almost like a status move because none of the starters learn it and it’s charge turn is a major detriment, but in the hands of an enemy pokémon it can do serious damage to your team.

[@wingedcatgirl]

Smelling Salts feels like it could have maybe been a decent counter to "get paralyzed on purpose" strats, but not by being exclusive to Makuhita... but even that's uh. pretty highly specific lmao

[@diptube6563]

Conversion 2 is a very important tool allowing porygon to completely wall fighting types by becoming ghosts in a generation before widely available coverage

[@dashingclasher]

i completely forgot razor wind existed until a random absol in my emerald used it

[@SquirrelGamingProductions]

Razor Wind as a 140 bp high-crit flying type move that phases the opponent on T1 & is shortened to 1 turn in Tailwind could've been good enough to play with casually

[@kaimanthelizardwizard1248]

That's pretty cool. Would it be too broken if it could set up Tailwind during it's charging turn?

[@andyeverett93]

This is a wonderful channel. Thanks KZbin homepage recommendations

[@user-fb8bo3ys2f]

Never thought skull bash was that bad 😅😅😅

[@slaidfh6211]

My last crystal run, I decided to try a gimmick style exeggutor, which used Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Hypnosis and Nightmare. Nightmare is definitely a frustrating move to use, but the use of it alongside Leech Seed was actually pretty effective. Slow for sure, but I thought it was pretty good

[@volvagia2131]

I got tons of mileage out of Nightmare on Noctowl in a recent Gen 2 playthrough. Noctowl can barely attack directly since its Attack stat is so poor and the only special move it learns to use its better SpA with is Confusion. But Noctowl is tanky and has many opportunities to use Hypnosis on foes before sapping their health with Nightmare. After a teammate used Icy Wind to make sure Noctowl could go first, the Hypnosis + Nightmare combo beat several key foes in the game's boss battles, including Clair's Kingdra, one of Lance's Dragonite, and Red's Venusaur. Low Attack or a level disadvantage meant jack in the face of losing 1/4 HP per turn.

[@Nichrysalis]

Smellingsalt could easily be fixed by having the effect of removing status conditions when used, including when used with sleep talk while asleep. And because it's not a stab bonus move, it remains relatively balanced.

[@jesuisunstroopwafel]

Update: The Gen IX DLCs didn't introduce any new Flying- or Ground-type move. Also, Alluring Voice is the only Gen IX move the player has access to.

[@RemS500]

I think smelling salts was meant to be used in double battle settings with a partner setting it up. I used this combo in Pokemon Collosseum it can used as a great finisher in some cases. Razor Wind is a move I so wish was good because it always looks and sounds so cool. Honestly, if I was to change it to buff it to be usable or even good, while keeping the mechanics the same, I can think of a few things. Along with just making the move flying type. One idea is just to make it as strong as Skull Bash, and have it raise a stat like special attack or speed, while keeping the high crit chance. Two could be to just make the move stronger, but always result in a crit, kinda like Frost Breath. And my last idea would be so that on the first turn the whirlwind whipped up could set up the tailwind effect, while either having a overall power buff or always critting with its 70 base power. That would make it super good with Shiftry's new wind rider ability, and Shiftry already used to know razor wind, so it could work. It might sound too good of a move, but so few pokemon used to learn it after gen one, so it would be rather limited of a move. Plus still being a two turn move it feels like it keeps it somewhat in check. Sure I'm sure better choices would still be out there, but I've always wondered how to fix bad moves, razor wind the most, to at least make them fun or a somewhat usable option. I've always loved the personality of this move.

[@benharder7816]

Has he talked about comet punch? It sounds so cool, but it's a normal attack that has pitiful uses

[@PelemusMcSoy]

I will never forget Conversion 2. I rolled a Steel type, and my trusty Porygon held off three Pokémon in a double battle by itself before falling.

[@iara0]

I do not agree with your stance of "I am glad they are removing some moves". You are thinking in purely gameplay sense, but sometimes such things as gameplay and story / wordlbuilding elements exist. More moves mean a little extra for someone to see or learn about some day, making each playthrough unique. There are also moves that represent actions Pokémon can do, but Game Freaks biggest setback was always distribution. It makes no sense that Barrage couldn't be learned by more Pokémon. Chansey, Spheal, Spoink, Mankey, Kangaskhan and so many Pokémon could have learned it. In Japanese it's called Ball Throw, so it could mean certain Pokémon could throw stuff. Other moves such as sharpen could have worked on most steel or rock Pokémon, and conversion could work on Pokémon with high IQ such as Metagross, Alakazam, Gardevoir, Keckleon. You could have made so much.

[@heros7498]

Starmine will sometimes use nightmare in gen 2 to counter snorlax

[@absoruriver5621]

KZbin recommended your video to me and I wanna say I'm glad it did! You will go far with time (:

[@danielbarker2522]

It blows my mind what people consider "forgettable." Like anyone with a blastoise knows skull bash, plus its been immortalized in smash. Or seeing every other npc using razor wind, or being confused on why the game wants to put smelling salts on your hariyama, or never having seen Z conversion. These feel forgettable exclusively for those who started in gen 8

[@shylar763]

I actually know a lot of obscure moves since when I was younger they always fascinated me, and now as an adult I play a decent amount of competitive or just enjoy playing the battle facilities in the older games so I typically know a lot of Pokémon movesets

[@jayceofspades7195]

Honestly when I first played RSE, I loved using Smellingsalt. Solely for the animation. Little makuhita just clapping the opponent's face made me laugh every time, and the effect of the other pokemon looking like it was just waking up.

[@Toast_94]

Fun fact, Skull Bash was used by Pichu in the Super Smash Bros series (Pikachu uses Volt Tackle instead); despite having never learned it in the main pokemon games. In the unlikely event that the Smash Bros series gets another entry and Pichu somehow makes it into the roster: the moves appearance in that series will have outlived its appearance in its home series.

[@zoa1-99.......]

Faint/Feint attack was a good move. Pursuit was decent too. 2:50 We can count Tera Blast seing as how it changes it's type to match the Tera type when Terastilised for Ground and Flying.

[@TheIncredible2IC]

Nightmare had lots of use in Gen 2 where Rest Talk was a popular strategy