Barbarians FINALE - How is the Latin? Is it any good? Latin Pronunciation (Netflix Barbarians ep4-6)

[@hamzzaahmed1794]

I think the video should be renamed: "The Italian schwa being superimposed onto Latin and annoying Luke for an hour "

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Lol

[@fatimaabbad3474]

😂😂

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Brandon55638]

I agree. Latin spoken with a strong Italian accent sounds off and sometimes very funny, especially if you're used to speaking Latin with elisions, phonemic vowel length, nasal vowels, retracted s, etc.

[@pile333]

Once again, it would be great if they hired you as a consultant and, why not, even as an actor in a cameo!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I’d love to do both, of course! It would be an honor

[@weloveTM123]

Had they hired Luke as a consultant, season 2 might've turned out good. But as always the woke propaganda of Netflix prevailed. The script was poor, the potential was wasted on nonsense. Very disappointed. But at least, there is a lot more Classical Latin to than in the first season.

[@djohnsones2501]

@@weloveTM123 The Germans were invincible good guys, and Romans were cartoonishly evil villains

[@dus1213]

@@weloveTM123 i still enjoyed second season. In my opinion, its great writing for a german production, now that they dont have the historical context of the Varus-Battle anymore. And the romans were the evil villains @djohnsones . What else would you call invading nationalists, that kill your people, conquer your land and treat you like a lower human beings? *cough* russia *cough*

[@SchmulKrieger]

@@polyMATHY_Luke they hired people from Kaptorga (KZbin channel) but they quit because they did a lot of things just for audience and not for accuracy. E.g. that people wear constantly animal skins, which is known that people didn't quite often.

[@danilocatania5700]

At 1:30 when the actor, who plays Varus, who is sicilian, saying clomousus es, being sicilian myself, I can tell you that its anninflex we have in our dialect, in Sicilian it would be, "buddillusu sii" (noisy you are) and the enphasis would be on the sii (you are) potentially the reason why the actor pronounces it that way

[@iberius9937]

The "cara" and "cada" etymology explanation was fascinating! Thank you for that. Excellent summary. Despite the obvious annoying mistakes, I think the actors all delivered their lines with conviction!

[@jelmar35]

I just learned cada in Spanish today, funnily enough

[@Bolpat]

34:40 Another possibility is that the translator was given _Geht!_ or _Macht Platz!_ (or something similar) which is the German plural imperative for ‘go away’ or ‘make way,’ but is also a form of formal imperative, which , in German, is indiscriminate for singular and plural, so the translator might guessed it as a singular.

[@nathanbinns6345]

It's funny, I learn considerably more about the pronunciation of ancient languages (not just the how but also the why) in videos like these than I do in actual books or courses teaching pronunciation. Like, the books give the raw information, but videos like this give the 'lightbulb going on' moment where it all begins to make sense.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I'm really glad to hear that, Nathan! Thanks.

[@happygamersloth9161]

Nunc dēmum! Tam longē expectāvī ut facerēs analysem tuam dē aliīs partibus Barbarōrum. Grātiās Māximas tibi agō!

[@Silver-qz6mh]

I recently finished watching and analysing Episode 3, after seeing that you've just posted this video, I literally said out loud quite loduly "Amō tē, Lūcī!" XD

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha great timing!

[@PC_Simo]

17:25 That’s probably, because Modern High German is well known for its ”choppy” sound; owing to the ample usage of ”Glottisschlacht”, or, what’s known as ”Hard Attack”, in English; and that is: Starting words, which normally begin with a vowel, with a glottal stop.

[@willamoctober6714]

By giving the herald of the second season you made my day bro. Love your videos!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Very kind! Thanks for watching and sharing

[@SerbSkiLLz00]

It was recently discovered that in Elden Ring one of the enemies, the bat people, sing in Latin. It would be cool to see your reaction to it

[@bigtimebop]

There's also mohg's trēs, duo, ūnus, nihil chant. It's obviously very short but I'm still curious if he got the pronunciation correct

[@bluewatson4341]

@@bigtimebop ii

[@bluewatson4341]

@@bigtimebop I’m i

[@bluewatson4341]

@@bigtimebop oiioiiioiiiii

[@bluewatson4341]

@@bigtimebop I’m iiooi

[@joxlika]

Salve. Like always - an amazing explanation. As a person speaking 6 languages and taking 2 courses of latin in college, still it remains a language i desire to master. Thank you very much for putting such a great content. Barbarians still is one of my favorite tv show.✌

[@FlexibleFlyer50]

I find your videos entertaining (your facial expressions are often priceless) and educational---not easy to find today. My one regret: the local high school I attended did away with Latin classes in the late 1950s when French held sway. Then, Spanish was introduced in the mid-1960s. The school flirted with German and Italian for a few years, and then these classes also disappeared. I look to your videos to supplement my interest in Latin, "hear" the language, and learn the correct pronunciation of words. Never too old to master something new---but really old.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Very kind! Thanks

[@VincentiusValentinus]

When the 2nd season comes out, I can't wait to check your channel to see whether you've done the comments on Latin in the first several episodes. Can't wait!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Season 2 is out! See my community post on whether or not I’ll do a Latin review of it

[@msb4838]

@31:38 having a generational difference in accents is an amazingly specific detail!

[@andresyanez9243]

Fantástico video para mejorar detalles de pronunciación Luke! gracias!

[@antonxuiz]

32:05 about that pause before incauta, in Spanish this is done to make what follows it a veiled threat, or to emphasize; as in taking that pause to search for a word to convey precise meaning (or hidden meaning). I could see it being done "Ya que Roma nunca fue... incauta" or "Ya que Roma nunca fue... poco precavida" though I wouldnt know what the veiled threat or meaning is.

[@PC_Simo]

35:27 Also; that kind of reminds me of, how (at least, in Finland) army commands often sound (grammatically) like they’re given to a single person; even, when they’re obviously addressing the whole regiment / group _(”Olalle vie!”,_ instead of: _”Olalle viekää!”,_ etc.). Of course, that is done, to make the commands both simple and sound like they’re addressed to you, personally; in order for the soldiers (who are trained to be, essentially, robots) to pick on them, easier. 😅

[@robertoboehler-blumenau-sc8818]

Glad to know they've renewed for a new season, I wasn't aware of it. Thank you.

[@PC_Simo]

25:00 It’s also strange that Italian is so addicted to final vowels. Finnish also has the same thing going on: Most words end in a vowel; but I’ve never had an issue with word-final consonants. 😅

[@ChadKakashi]

**Peter Griffin appears** Well there goes half my coffee.

[@PC_Simo]

30:15 I mean; it’s *_INSANE,_* what these actors did. If I was expected to remember my lines I heard months prior, in a language I don’t speak, I’d speak literal gibberish. 😮🤯 31:00 Exactly 🎯! Even, if it was a day before, it’s still pretty damn impressive 😮. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@nzcsx]

Oooo it’s been awhile since we last went back on this show. Nice.

[@well_weathered]

Thank you. I'm just beginning to experiment with Latin. I hear so many speak it in prayer and it sounds so different. The emphasis is going to be very beneficial. 🤎

[@well_weathered]

Wish me well. I want to succeed. I've studied Romanian because you inspired me. Deutsch and Greek as well. So here goes...

[@shashikamanoj1160]

Go to Traditional Latin Mass

[@PC_Simo]

35:43 To me, it sounds like: ”Summam”, or: ”Sumnam”. Not that I would know, what those words would mean, in this context (especially, since ”Sumnam” isn’t probably even a word).

[@BrandonBoardman]

He said "Valdē spērō tē interpellandī ratiōnem bene summam, barbare."

[@katarinasilva3761]

I am Brazilian so Portuguese is my first language. I can speak some Spanish as well. I have been an English teacher for a long time and that is why I know that in English some words in a sentence are “more stressed” than others. In Portuguese and Spanish it doesn’t seem to me that happens the same way. We don’t stress a word in a sentence unless we mean to enphasize it. All the words have somehow quite the same intonation, there are not imperceptible words like in a sentence in English. It doesn’t matter if the word is an article or a preposition, for example. In my humble opinion, that makes Brazilian who learn English find it more difficult to listen and understand it. I thought it happened the same way to the Latin language, meaning the words in a sentence would have no big difference concerning their stress.

[@ecavalcantes]

Concordo contigo. A ênfase (ou a falta dela) dada em certas palavras foi feita pelos personagens intencionalmente, e na minha visão não constituem um erro. Já a duração de sílabas longas pode melhorar, como o Luke disse.

[@fallinginthed33p]

Now that you mentioned the schwa sound, I can't stop noticing it every time it happens. Argh. "Hic est symbolus equitis Romani, signum imperii potestatis, militiae, dominationis." The meaning is so much more impactful, so much more regal in Latin.

[@PC_Simo]

Same for me 😬.

[@jamiemattinson]

Been waiting for this one! Thanks for the upload & great content 😁

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for watching and sharing!

[@SchmulKrieger]

If the term reik (Latinised reiks in that show) a Germanic word was or not is debatable since this word is found in the Baltic languages as a term for a feudal lord of land-lord, while the cognate of Latin rex in Germanic in terms of regnum is rīki, and the ruler of a particular territory and/or people is a rīk. While later the long ī became ei in Gothic as reiks (nominative), in Old High German rīh (k > h), in Old English rica > ric (pronounced as rich). The Regnum in Old High German is Rihhi. It would be strange that especially in the more common and slightly diverging Germanic language at that period the word for the particular ruler is reik and would become rih later. While in Gothic this change happened likely as a result of contact with Balts and Slavs, where the second were sometimes also called þeodiske (cognate of deutsch). So the form Reik is a made up term or very unlikely to be for Germanic/German rulers. de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reik_(F%C3%BCrst)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Fascinating! Thanks for that insight

[@bunddeutscherunitarier9909]

In der Tat haben die Serienmacher bei diesem Wort einen Fehler mit der Aussprache gemacht. Statt reiks hätte es rīks lauten müssen. Allerdings wurde auch das spätere gotische reiks in Wahrheit rīks gesprochen. Es ist wissenschaftlicher Konsens, daß das ei lediglich eine Nachahmung der damaligen griechischen Orthographie war, die den Laut ī eben ei schrieb. Mit den Balten hat das nichts zu tun, zumal diese bei solchem Vokabular wohl eher die Nehmenden als die Gebenden waren. Der in Ihrem Link auch genannte baltische Herrschertitel Kunigas dürfte doch vom urgermanischen Königswort kuningaz kommen.

[@PC_Simo]

That _”Vērnum”_ sounds like it could be a cognate with Russian _«Весна»_ (”Vesna”; ”Spring”) 🤔.

[@jaxtearax203]

Hey polymathy I am a huge fan of your channel I would like to ask if you can make a video as to what type of latin Emperor Justinianus The Great spoke.

[@freki9940]

'twas about time!!! my favourite video series continues :)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I’m glad you like it! Thanks for sharing if you are able, it’s a big help

[@martincatoniryan1638]

A great season of Barbarians! Very nice video!

[@thadtuiol1717]

Great analysis, thank you Luke. Please do S2 when you get a chance (if you can bear to watch it)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I shall.

[@Thelaretus]

35:26 I hear _ratiōnem bene sūmam,_ which would be a weird thing to say, but it technically not grammatically incorrect.

[@TransSappho]

14:58 I haven’t read contemporary accounts of campaigns in Germania in the original Latin, so I’m wondering what word authors would have used for the leaders of Germanic groups

[@SchmulKrieger]

Probably rex for a Germanic tribe ruler.

[@limmeh7881]

After watching the second season, I think you'd enjoy it. I knew that after it's release that I had to come back here, the Latin videos between both channels are really good for me as a hobbyist; I may even dedicate some time into learning Latin properly !

[@noahpowley1597]

Will you be covering Barbarians season 2? I really adored Flavus and Tiberius' Larin speech, and I'm hoping to hear your breakdown of it!

[@Mysterialic]

I'm sensing that the translator and you would make great friends.

[@Bolpat]

I really wonder if the schwa sound a lot of Italians put at the end of consonant-ending words is an issue for all Italian native speakers. I know for sure that in the north-east, the local Friulian language has a lot of consonant-ending words. I don’t know much about other regions of Italy.

[@alphakky]

New to your channel, me, like a lot of people wish that Gladiator was in Latin.

[@PC_Simo]

In ”Eōrum dux erat Folkvinus Wolfsper.”, though, the word order is the same, as in, for example, English; so, I don’t know, how they messed that one up 🤯. Is the word order maybe different, in Italian? 🤔

[@ark32323]

The actor portraying Arminius is not German, he's Austrian. I guess his lovely Viennese accent, which from time to time shines through quite brightly, does add up to his fitting pronounciation.

[@Thelaretus]

Ethnically German, still.

[@ingwiafraujaz3126]

@@Thelaretus Germanic, you mean? Yes, he's ethnically-culturally-linguistically Germanic, specifically Austro-Bavarian. Though Austrians are genetically pretty mixed (Germano-Celtic for the most part and slightly Slavic), that's not very relevant. The short answer is that German is not an ethnicity but a nationality.

[@Thelaretus]

@@ingwiafraujaz3126 As I understand it, Austrians are ethnically German and nationally Austrian. I might be mistaken.

[@ingwiafraujaz3126]

@@Thelaretus I'm sorry but the term 'German' generally refers to the *nationality* corresponding with the modern-day nation state of Germany, where Austrians don't live. By your logic, I, as a Dutchman, would be "German" too. However, 'German' is colloquially just a national designation as opposed to an ethnic group that transcends national borders: while an Austrian, a Dutchman or a Swissman are all Germanic, none of them are actually German. Hopefully that makes sense to you as you seem to be non-German(ic)? The bottom line is that modern-day nation states are a relatively recent phenomenon and their borders go right through ethnic-linguistic borders. Therefore, someone's nationality is not always very informative as to their ethnicity. You may have meant 'German' to be synonymous with 'Germanic'? In that case you would be correct, though a little imprecise as I'll go into later. On the most meaningful level of measurement - more precise than nationality or even the very broad, over-arching group "Germanic" - the majority of Austrians are in fact (Austro-)Bavarians. A smaller portion of them are Swabian and a small minority is Slavic (Carantinian). Please allow me to explain with some ethnohistorical context: At the highest level of measurement, Austrians are of course Indo-Europeans. More specifically, they are, as mentioned, part of the broad, overarching ethnic group of people descending from the Nordic Bronze Age culture of southern Scandinavia known as the Germanic peoples. As a side note, I think it's crucial to be aware that the term 'Germanic' (peoples) derives from the Latin exonym 'Germānī', which was in turn loaned from how the Gaulic Celts referred to their Germanic neighbors: en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Germanus#Latin. So Tacitus by far wasn't the first to use this word to describe my ancestors and it was certainly never used by them to refer to themselves or where they lived. The Germanic endonym in modern English would be 'Teutonic', which is cognate with modern 'Deutsch' (German), 'Dutch' (English), 'Diets'/'Duits' (Dutch), 'Düütsk' (Low Saxon), 'Tsjutsk' (Frisian), 'Tysk' (Danish/Norwegian/Swedish) and 'Þýskur' (Icelandic). The Proto-Germanic root is 'Þiudiskaz', meaning "of the people/tribe". From Proto-Germanic 'þeudō' ("people, tribe") + -iskaz (which forms adjectives from nouns with the sense of "pertaining to; characteristic of", like German or Dutch -isch and Scandinavian -isk): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodiscus. So keep in mind that terms like "Dutch" and "Deutsch", which nowadays refer to specific nationalities and languages, are really so-called synecdoches, specifically 'totum pro parte' since they use a "whole" (Germanic) to describe a "part" (Dutch or German). This is akin to using "American" to refer to Canadian or Mexican. Moving on. The Germanic tribes diversified into different cultural-linguistic subgroups: - North: North Germanic aka Scandinavian (Norse) - West: North Sea Germanic aka Jutlandic aka Ingvaeonic (Juto-Anglo-Saxo-Frisian) - West: Weser-Rhine Germanic aka Istvaeonic (Low/Central Franconian) - West: Elbe Germanic aka Irminonic (Bavarian, Alemannic/Swabian, High Franconian) - East: East Germanic (Gothic etc.) Modern-day Austrians, or Austro-Bavarians, are descended from the Elbe Germanic subgroup (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminones). On a yet more precise level of measurement, you can point to distinct ethnic groups even within Austria. As mentioned above, they are by and large the Bavarians and Swabians, besides some minority groups. Austrians also have some genetic admixture from the original Celtic populations who inhabited this region before the migration period as they weren't entirely replaced but rather absorbed. However, this doesn't meaningfully contribute to modern-day Austrian's ethnicity on a strictly cultural-linguistic level. To extend this to Germany: the ethnic groups within that country include Bavarians, Franconians, Saxons, Frisians, etc. These aren't just historical tribes but distinct populations and cultural-linguistic groups which established after the migration period and remained mostly stable since the Early Middle Ages - as evidenced by linguistics, population genetics and archaeological research (not to mention by their modern-day descendants who still up to a significant point exhibit said cultural-linguistic uniqueness, especially in the countryside). Like I said earlier, I'm afraid the "territories" of these ethnic-cultural-linguistic groups like these don't align with national the national borders at all; they transcend them far into other nations. E.g. as it happens, ethnic Saxons live in north Germany, east The Netherlands and part of southwest Denmark; the same can be said for Frisians. Franconians occur in south Netherlands, west/central Germany and north Belgium. And Bavarians in southeast Germany, Austria and north Italy. And so on. As another clear example, my small country of The Netherlands of course has 1 nationality, Dutchmen, but did you know it contains 3 ethnic groups within its small state borders? 1. Frisians (along the coastline), 2. Saxons (east inland) and 3. Franconians (south below the major rivers). While the Dutch may all seem very much alike, these 3 groups are demonstrably genetically and culturally-linguistically (in other words, ethnically) distinct. Though the Frisians and Saxons are both North Sea Germanic aka Ingvaeonic (like the English, who share the same pre-migration-period Jutlandic ancestry), the Franconians are Weser-Rhine Germanic or Istvaeonic (descending from different tribes who left southern Scandinavia during earlier migration waves, such as the Batavi, who later formed the Frankish confederacy). To this day, they are still separated by geography (mostly rivers and hill ridges), genetics/ancestry, religion (Saxons/Frisians are mostly protestant whereas Franconians are mostly Catholic) and of course language. Frisian and Low Saxon are distinct, officially recognized languages (in both The Netherlands and Germany) spoken by millions of people besides the dominant national language we know as Dutch. Whereas Frisian descends from Old Frisian and Saxon from Old Saxon, the language we know as Dutch is Franconian-based; it's a standardized language based on several West-Low-Franconian regional languages (mostly Hollandic, Zeelandic and West-Flemish) which descend from Old Low Franconian aka Old Frankish, the language of Charlemagne. Charlemagne was the sworn enemy of the Frisians under Redbad and the Saxons under Widukind. So denying their descendants a separate identity due to their shared nationality would be highly ignorant. Let alone referring to them as their neighboring country's nationality, which even if correct would be a superficial designation. To illustrate, as a Dutchman from above the rivers, I ethnically identify as follows from precise to broad level of measurement: - Friso-Saxon (with probable Low Franconian admixture) - North Sea Germanic/Ingvaeonic (though I primarily speak the Weser-Rhine Germanic/Istvaeonic/Low Franconian language fallaciously referred to as Dutch, which is a totum pro parte as explained) - Dutch (again, a synecdoche we use to refer specifically to citizens of The Netherlands or the official language of The Netherlands and Flanders in Belgium, but it truly means Germanic) - Germanic (endonymically referred to as Teutonic) - European - Indo-European (includes Non-European Indo-Europeans) On a "racial" level, if I had to cross a box on a form, I identify as: - Caucasian (includes Non-Indo-Europeans such as Semitic peoples) - OOA (includes all people outside of Africa who all trace back to a single migration wave/population bottleneck of ancient Eurasians - who uniquely interbred with Neanderthals & Denisovans - and are therefore much more closely related than even some different peoples within Africa are to each other) On a species level: - Homo Sapiens Sapiens (includes all modern humans) - Human (includes other human subspecies of the genus Homo such as Neanderthals, Denisovans and even more archaic species like Erectus, all the way back to Habilis 2 mya) On a macro level: - Great Ape (includes all hominids including humans, Chimps/Bonobos, Gorillas and Orangutans, as well as extinct hominids like Dryopithecus, Chororapithecus, Gigantopithecus and Pierolapithecus) - Earthling lol

[@PC_Simo]

@@ingwiafraujaz3126 I think his idea was that Austrians would be Germans, living in Austria (thus, this wouldn’t extend to Dutchmen); sort of, like the Germans, living in the Sudetenland; the Serbs, living in the Republic of Srpska (in Bosnia & Herzegovina); or the Koreans, on either side of the DMZ. By your logic; the 1st group would be Czech (ethnically), the 2nd group would be Bosnians or Bosniaks, and the 3rd group would (again, ethnically) be North and South Koreans. 🤔

[@taha_bin_mehdi]

49:24 ait is another verb for 'to say', though I have no idea what this should do in this sentence. It remains a mystery

[@taha_bin_mehdi]

'ait' being in 3rd-P. s. present indicative, i.e. "he/she/it says". Should have added that

[@BrandonBoardman]

I heard "id". He said "Forsan id per istam exsecrātam Germāniam stat."

[@teilteilnehmer]

Hi Luke! What do you think about realization of the /l/ phoneme in Classical Latin? In your Latin Pronunciation Chronology sheet, there’s only [l]. Wikipedia, however, insists on velarized ‘dark’ [ɫ] unless geminated or followed by /i/, citing András Cser’s 2020 paper. (Before 2021, some other papers were cited in Wikipedia. Also, Roman grammarians’ terms ‘l exīlis’ and ‘l plēnus’ were mentioned.) If dark l existed in Latin, could Portuguese dark l directly inherit it or did it appear more recently? What about other Indo-European languages? How old are dark l’s in English, Dutch, Slavic languages? What about Ancient Greek? Wikipedia thinks it was ‘clear’ [l]. I’ve heard of an opinion, however, that Greek borrowings in Armenian (/l/ → [ɣ~ʁ]) suggest velarized /l/ in (at least some dialects of) Greek.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hi Teil. Yes, I need to make a video about this. The notion that Classical Latin had a dark L is definitely wrong, since it isn't supported by all Romance languages, or even many of them. The phenomenon of /ł/ > /w/ in syllable coda position is well attested in French (bellus > beau), Spanish (alterum > otro), and Portuguese (lēgālis > legal), which has led researchers like Sydney Allen to assert that Classical Latin absolutely had /ł/ in syllable coda position. The reason this is 100% wrong is that the above-described phenomenon is localized to descendents of Latin *outside of Italy* and only to the west of Italy, so namely French, Spanish, and Portuguese. The extremely rare occurrences of /ł/ in Italian dialects today suggest that where it does occur is innovative in the post-Roman era nd probably quite recently, and is not an inherited trait from Classical Latin; indeed, /ł > w/ is a common phonological transformation in languages, which has independently occured in Polish and British English - thus it does not require an ancient antecedent. Moreover, the complete absence of syllable coda /l > w/ in Italian and Romanian in the exact same positions it occurs in the Iberian languages (confer: Latin alterum, Spanish otro, Port. outro, French autre, BUT Italian altro and Romanian alt) demonstrates definitively that the antecedent language of both Italian and Romanian, neither of which have any dark L today, did not have the dark L. What's the explanation? Not Classical Latin, but the Proto-Romance of Western Romance languages outside of Italy developed the dark L at some point. But this had absolutely nothing to do with Classical Latin. The "exīlis" and "pinguis" terms for Latin L actually don't make sense as being mapped onto the British English concepts of "light L" and "dark L." Indeed, "pinguis" is used by Roman grammarians to be "full" or "true," not "dark" or "obscured." Sydney Allen seems only to know French and Spanish and nothing of Italian or Romanian, hence his incomplete supporting evidence; but the fact that he equates exīlis and pinguis with light and dark L as if it's a foregone conclusion is probably his most intellectually dishonest assertion. He did a lot of great work that was groundbreaking, but he was no linguist. Thus the ancient Roman grammarians were probably referred to the very allophonic difference that occurs in Italian and even Romanian for L in syllable-coda position: it is a fuller sound, geminated in fact, "pinguis" for sure.

[@PC_Simo]

21:44 That’s, where the translator needs to realize that they’re translating this for complete newbies; not for himself, or his peers; and he needs to treat the translation job, as if he was translating it for primary school -students getting ready for their 1st of Latin lesson. So, any anomalies in terms of phoneme notation (like: ”C” = [g]), should be minimized, or preferably, eradicated. He can’t assume that these *_ACTORS (NOT_* linguists, or even Latinists) can infer the voicing of ”C”.

[@RexConstenla]

Oh gosh! You're right! Once you point out those geminated "s" at the end of the words it's impossible not to hear them! 😂 it's kind of comical... 😬

[@rodrigoandrade2947]

Hello bro! nice nice video! also would be very nice to see your reaction in the Elfen lied lilum 's song

[@Brandon55638]

35:28 I think he meant the adjective "summam" as in "ratiōnem summam"

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ah that makes sense

[@PC_Simo]

29:53 Well, a foreigner *_DEFINITELY COULD_* have done that (because the actor, who *_IS_* a foreigner / non-native speaker, just did that); but not, *_BECAUSE_* he is a foreigner.

[@PC_Simo]

42:20 I wonder, if the non-explicit nature of the Greek language has contributed to the emergence of the great number of philosophical questions and philosophically oriented minds, amongst the Ancient Greeks; since, I would imagine that non-explicit, ambiguous languages tend to leave lots of room for interpretation, when it comes to various concepts and nomenclature 🤔.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s what many say, but I’m not thoroughly convinced; that is the strong version of the Saphir-Whorf hypothesis. It suggests that a radically different language like English lacks the ability to reason and to explore philosophy that one finds in Ancient Greek. Yet Greek also has illogical myths, epic poetry, romantic verses, humor, novels, etc. But it is of great value to read the original, and in that we can hope to understand the specific philosophical meanings of Greek words and phrases to have a deeper sense of the philosophy just as much as the poetry.

[@PC_Simo]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Yeah, I’m not saying that language is the ”be-all-and-end-all” of things. Maybe I should have worded that a bit differently. I meant that it could have played a part, among countless other factors. Of course, English has its own polysemic words, like: ”Possess”, whose dual meanings could inspire some questions about possible connections between control by spirits and owning/ownership that we Finns probably wouldn’t come to think of, since these concepts have completely different labels attatched to them: _”Riivata”_ and: _”Omata”,_ respectively; just, as an easy example. I appreciate the input, and the timely reply, though; so, thank you 😌👍🏻.

[@Jerbuscus]

I think itd be really cool to translate the Latin in the OST of Bloodborne. Not only is it good music, but i think you could also add some good corrections. some of the lyrics (that you can hear) seem to me to be incorrect which i would think would be to fit the rhythm. Great video!

[@Brandon55638]

The Family Guy clip and your exaggerated Italian schwas were hilarious!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha

[@weloveTM123]

Season 2 is supposed to be very interesting in regards to the Romans. We have Tiberius, Germanicus and Flavus (the brother of Ariminius) coming to avenge Varus. It's going to have a lot of cool Latin dialogues and epic Roman scenes. At least I hope so. I can't wait for your review of season 2. Soooo pumped! EDIT: Nevermind, it had a very poor script and terrible storyline. I only watched it for the Romans and the Classical Latin. But even the Roman characters were at times ridiculous. Netflix was OFF the charts with its WOKE propaganda. Seriously, the only saving grace is the Latin, the Roman costumes and some of the Roman characters.

[@letsunnahgoforth]

That would be pretty interesting to see that. Especially the military general and the father of Caligula who defeated arminius’s forces at the battle of idistavo but his forces were called back by Tiberius.

[@belialord]

Yeah it was trash, shame

[@mustafaamin9516]

Agreed. Season 2 was horrible.

[@Bolpat]

Luke, do you think it would have helped the actors if they weren’t given only text, but also an audio of how it’s supposed to sound? I don’t think it would have helped a lot with vowel length, but maybe with the stressed forms of _esse._

[@ln5321]

Is it accurate for them to be referring to it as the "empire" at this point in history at 20:27? I thought they were still in denial about no longer being a republic at this point.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s a very fair point to bring up. Although, our concept of Republic and Empire is something historians devised in the Renaissance and after; in reality Rēs Pūblica in the ancient usage just means the government, the state, from the kingdom of Romulus to the last days of the Byzantine Empire. Imperium is also used somewhat interchangeably with Rēgnum and Rēs Pūblica in all time periods, but is more frequent in the time of the Barbarians show, so I think it’s fine.

[@ln5321]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Interesting! I didn't know that, so thanks for the answer!

[@digenesakritas]

Cast Luke as Germanicus and also the director, writer and historical consultant and re-do the entire second season of Barbarians. Roma Invicta.

[@romandyk3585]

Hello! First, I want to say thank you, you've done great job here, I really appreciate it. Second, I would like to ask something. That note from Varus: ,,Maxuma viri gloria constat ex fine sua statuenda'' Is that grammatically correct? Thank you, I'll be looking forward for your answer and have a wonderful day. Best regards Roman

[@maxreenoch1661]

With regards to the final -m thing: I know final -Vm is elided before vowels in poetry, but what about in speech? Do we know if this would have differed between careful and non-careful speech of this period?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for this question. The notion that final -m is only elided in poetry is a product of bad education: the fact that final -m is not a true consonant is only revealed beyond doubt in meter to even the densest academics, thus creating the myth of it being a factor of poetry. On the contrary, it is clearly stated by ancient grammarians to be a mandatory characteristic of all speech at all times, and the rare occasions of a final -m sounded as a true consonant are actually found in poetry, and only extremely rarely.

[@SchmulKrieger]

@@polyMATHY_Luke isn't it similar to Portuguese pronunciation?

[@Brandon55638]

@@SchmulKriegerIt's almost like portuguese final M.

[@SchmulKrieger]

@@Brandon55638 yes, that's what I meant.

[@MrGMS1221]

About the vowel length, we friulians have the only latin-derived language which still has it. For example Lât (gone) and Lat (milk), but it would be hard even for us in latin, since we can don't have more than one single long vowel in each word.

[@StormKidification]

It's actually from the Renaissance restructuring of the vowel system in Gallo romance languages, not directly Latin. French also had the same distinction in length in the Renaissance.

[@MrGMS1221]

@@StormKidification Interesting. Do you have some bibliography about?

[@eljuano28]

In Dutch, "Keizer," "Cæsar," in middle English (and Latin, right?) in low German "Kaiser," words meaning emperor, are all pronounced fairly alike. When did the pronunciation in English for Caesar become "Seizer?" Can we blame the French for that one? Anyways, I always enjoy your work, dude. I'm gonna go feed my dog Phydaux now.

[@GaiusCaligula234]

It was never Seizer though, hmm. It's "see-zar"

[@hadhamalnam]

It's not just French, basically every Romance language had the "ae" change to "e" and the c turn to ch or s. The interesting thing is how the languages that got it as a loan were so conservative with it.

[@cleitondecarvalho431]

If the genetive of -ius is rather pronounced -ī instead than -iī, will it affect where you put the stress in word ? Like, Ímperī for Impériī ?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hi Clayton, great question. Everything about the word still behaves as if it’s iī, including stress. It’s just that acoustically it’s indistinguishable from ī in most situations

[@happygamersloth9161]

Hi, it's me again. I don't know If it is correct but maybe Varus said "Valdē spērō tē interpellandī ratiōnem bene summam (habēre), Barbare." To me it's good, but this is supposed to be Accusativus cum infinitivo, so where is the infinitive? Maybe the actor forgot about it. And I have no idea for now what he said in ep. 6. I will let you know if I will come up with something. P.S. correct me if I'm wrong :)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I appreciate it! I agree

[@zoomx4760]

Great vid, but I think the slightly off phonology and pronunciation mistakes are not even that unrealistic if you think about it. It's rather a critique from the perspective of the absolute elite like Cicero, Caesar and other writers who frequently complained about common pronunciation mistakes. Even Hadrian was laughed at by the Senate for his very rough sounding Latin that he probably picked up during his time at the army.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

The existence of diction issues in native speakers is of course acceptable; for example, the translator gave certain characters like the younger Arminius the trait of not pronouncing H, which was probably a common non-standard pronunciation of younger people of the time. The issue is that certain mistakes are exclusively caused by the actors’ not being native Latin speakers or even fluent Latin speakers. Those are mistakes, and they are unrealistic portrayals of the sound of Latin in antiquity

[@happygamersloth9161]

Salvē Lūcī! I think that Quintus said "An calidius nōn est ūsque ad vēr novum expectāre?" To me it makes sense but I am just a discipulus.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ahhh that makes sense. What threw me off was the long duration stressed ‘o’ in “novum.”

[@happygamersloth9161]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Yeah, this is the thing that I do sometimes when I read e.g. LLPSI, I put long vowel when it should not be there. But I'm doing my best to not do so.

[@guillermorivas7819]

Pelliculas extraordinarias. Quoque magnus est!

[@philoaviaticus]

Would you be able to recommend a Latin and French program for a low vision polymath?

[@xmini-ul7je]

On vowels length, it's great to be aware of that, but, how do you speak as fast as you can and still respect those lengths?, i mean, like in a discussion, where you try to make a point and the other person speaks on top of you as fast as a person can just to prove their point, could be difficult to respect those lengths there. I feel that if i try to speak latin respecting those lengths, it could be so slow in many ways. What i need, is to hear latin almost like in the street, reality, hope i made myself clear. See ya.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s a fine question, but it’s easily answered: exactly as you can hear spoken in modern Japanese, Finnish, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Estonian, and Czech, among others. Phonemic vowel length isn’t some abstract idea relegated to antiquity; it’s a fundamental characteristic not only of Latin and Ancient Greek but also a number of living languages. That’s where I found my answer to your question, and I recommend you investigate the same. As for Latin, see my other channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2O4fa2GisiUrrc

[@BrandonBoardman]

From my experience listening to languages that have phonemic vowel length (Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian and Japanese for example), the long vowels are usually normal speed and the short vowels are really short. The same must have been true for spoken Classical Latin. Arminius pronounces the vowel lengths almost perfectly in this show.

[@ecavalcantes]

Eorum dux erat Folkvinus Wolfsper. In Portuguese we would (or not) stress ERAT. Depends of the context. In my opinion, I don't think this is wrong in this case. The "particular meaning", as you said, is right there.

[@youtubeuser1993]

I was wandering: linguists reconstruct ancient languages with no written attestations based on the descended languages, but has it happened that linguists, looking at Italian, Spanish, Romanian etc tried to reconstruct Latin which we have plenty of records of? How did it go if it happened?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I answer this question here kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKWbiYh7bM2ipMU

[@youtubeuser1993]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Watched it, glad to know we can reconstruct it so well and amazing analogy with the aqueduct! Wondering if a similar accuracy applies for older languages like PIE

[@Brandon55638]

49:23 I heard "ait", not "id".

[@maximus7288]

Hey Luke, do you have any comments for the Latin spoken in Barbarians season 2?

[@Djhuty]

Honestly, the only Latin speaking character I liked was Metellus. Everyone else speaks in such a way where it either trails into a menacing whisper, or with a strained, desperate sort of low voice. I understand it adds an air of mystery and fear but it just happens so much. It’s not how normal people talk. Metellus just speaks, strongly at times, and I love it.

[@Xanomodu]

Regarding the example with "proditurus sum", is it also possible to stress "sum" with a more contrastive meaning, as with English "I AM going to betray you (as opposed to what you might have thought)"?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Absolutely. However, given the frequency of this intonational pattern, I’m convinced the actors have all regularly mapped their native language cadence onto the Latin without correcting for syntax. Without having a strong sense of the grammar through conversational practice, they really have no other choice. As always, I don’t blame them for this given the limitations of the pronunciation

[@daenerystargaryen6609]

you like the sound of shouted german? come get some Schimpfe from Gisela at the Enwohnermeldeamt and get back to me :DDD

[@Bolpat]

About the accent Arminius should have, it’s not so obvious to me. He appeared to be quite young when taken from home and young enough to not have any noticeable accent. I know a Russian woman who moved to Germany when she was 8 years old. She has no accent whatsoever and she’s still absolutely fluent in Russian (as far as I can tell), because unlike Arminius, she wasn’t separated from her family. Arminius, being taken to Rome with his little brother, had only him to practice his native language. He’d necessarily learn Latin really well.

[@andrefmartin]

When are you going to publish the Latin on the Season 2 of BARBARIAN show? That is already launched and available on Netflix.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Yes, as it’s one of the worst things I’ve ever seen, I am deeply dreading making any video about it. But I will.

[@ghostdog7575]

The best at pronouncing "tantum ille" would be Portuguese-speaking people

[@xepharnazos]

Is "reik" a mistake? I believe the word was /ri:ks/, and "ei" was just Wulfila's way of writing Gothic long i. Unless West Germanic had a different forn, idk, but looking at wiktionary's cognates page there at least isn"t one that looks like reik(s).

[@Brandon55638]

The word actually was "rīx". The Italian voice actors were mispronounced it as "reix" either because of the slightly raising open e in their Italian accent and they were confusing "rīx" with "rēx".

[@Amatsuichi]

after seeing the abomination Rings of power was, Barbarians second season came as a treatment for my soul and I actually really value they decided to use Latin and German in the show

[@Brandon55638]

"Reiks" (or "reix") is a 2nd declension noun.

[@TheIronweed-vx5lg]

Furbo che sei Luke. ;) Bravo!

[@weonanegesiscipelibba2973]

Imagine if Arminius' character Finnish'd long and stressed vowels just as in Proto-Germanic

[@letsunnahgoforth]

Wasn’t Flavus the brother of arminius on arminius’s side historically speaking but that is not the case on the show. It would be interesting to see the betrayal of king marbod of macromanni and how arminius deals with it. Judging by the trailer.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Flavus remained in the Roman military, while Arminius and he had a famous argument recorded by Tacitus at the field of battle.

[@domenicpascucci7920]

Praeceptum quod elisionem docet velim. Cum -m ad finem verbae est, quomodo pronuntiatur (e.g. "...enim aliquid..." apud 3:10)

[@Brandon55638]

Lúcius saepe ēlídet M fínálem. Si á pelliculís ScorpiónisMártiání dé rėctá prónúntiátióne Linguae Latinae discás, scíbis quómodo dícere "enialiquid" pró "enim aliquid", "cuostibus" pró "cum hostibus" , etc. Dé Réctá Latíní Graecíque Sermónis Prónuntiátióne: kzbin.info/aero/PLU1WuLg45SizQQ5VwufQbCB9rL-Z3VIUJ

[@FoakHome]

There's gonna be another season?! Wooo!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Yeah it’s already out

[@FoakHome]

@@polyMATHY_Luke it is?! Man I'm behind!

[@PRKLGaming]

Did you pick up the wh sounds from Dr. Crawford?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Nope. I’ve done them for years, but usually suppressed them in recorded videos. Of late I have allowed myself the freedom to pronounce as I desire

[@Xardas131]

26:11 Can you really say "Revera" to say exactly?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

It’s closer to “indeed”

[@Xardas131]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Ah, thanks :)

[@JayzsMr]

Main actor is Austrian not German

[@PC_Simo]

What language do Austrians speak?

[@Popandmathgenetics]

Totally unrelated, but I would pay good fucking money to learn Middle Egyptian (or some other similar derivation of the language). I saw your music video and can't get the thought out of my mind. If you guys ever do lessons on it count my wife and I in!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Here you go! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGmxg4N4p9WAmck

[@Popandmathgenetics]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Wow only one day old, perfect timing in asking. Do you think it would be good to learn Coptic before jumping into something like Middle Egyptian? That is if you are even going to do Middle Egyptian eventually.

[@GAIUSIULIUSCAESARAV1]

And season II?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

It was so nauseatingly bad that I don’t think I’ll ever touch it. Really bad.

[@ibrahimakay728]

Hi. Video idea for you, wasnt sure where else to write it: Latin in Warhammer 40,000. A lot if people, places and organisations have names in terrible dog Latin. Maybe you could break it down and maybe suggest alternatives.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha sure

[@silaskristensen5798]

35:30 "Valde spero te interpellandi rationem bene summam?" 🤔

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Perhaps

[@dshock85]

I hope this show goes on for 30 seasons and goes all the way up to the fall of the western Roman empire and ends with Theodoric the Great. As a Romaphile it would pain me to watch that all play out but I just love this show and the fact that the Romans speak Latin, even if its not perfect. Sure the Germans are just speaking German but its all a far cry from anything before where the actors spoke english. Even if some of those shows/films were brilliant. Would be amazing to see as the Germanic tribes become more and more intertwined with the empire, the foederatii and the higher positions they start to hold with in the Roman Empire. Seeing tragic half germanic hereos like Stilicho ..... the rise of the Franks, the Vandals, Goths etc...

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

It would be lovely to see many scenes from history. Sadly, the Barbarians TV show is intent on avoid historical fact at every possible turn, so I would not want these show runners to be involved in such a thing. The HBO Rome series however is worthy of what you recommend

[@eg8481]

It's completely different from Italian!!

[@willcwhite]

I hope the translator watches these vids.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I believe he will! I admire his work greatly

[@shuichipen8778]

Are you in S2E2 as a roman soldier（or maybe I‘m wrong）？

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I am not involved with the production of Barbarians, no

[@shuichipen8778]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Soory for my mistake.

[@gtc239]

Is it just me or did you pronounce wh as /ʍ/?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That's how I do it

[@mathewbadcock]

34:09 “How many Romans?”

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hahahah very nice!

[@rexpolyglotus2802]

The absence of long vowels is what annoys me the most. One day, it would be great to have a series or film made with actors who've actually studied Latin and can accurately approximate the original pronunciation.