Macedonia: Greek or Slavic? How Greece got a country to change its name 🇬🇷 🇲🇰

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

To try everything Brilliant has to offer - free - for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/polyMATHY . The first 200 to sign up will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription. If you’re new to this topic, I recommend reseaching more on your own, since my presentation here is rather superficial. In this video I attempted to show three points of view: the Greek perspective, the North Macedonian perspective, and the perspective of an outsider - outsiders like me see who these controversies as pretty silly, and I pointed to my own supercilious reaction in this video, to make a point that the Macedonia naming dispute is very important to a lot of people. I encourage you to look into the facts and the deeds around the dispute before coming to your own conclusion. Thanks to everyone who has provided such interesting, civil, and thoughtful comments below. I really appreciate the conversations. 🦂 Support my work on Patreon: www.patreon.com/LukeRanieri 📚 Luke Ranieri Audiobooks: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com 🤠 Take my course LATIN UNCOVERED on StoryLearning, including my original Latin adventure novella "Vir Petasātus" learn.storylearning.com/lu-promo?affiliate_id=3932873 🦂 Sign up for my Latin Pronunciation & Conversation series on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/54058196

[@modmaker7617]

My conclusion is; ●Alexander the Great and his Empire are Greek. ●The modern Slavic North-Macedonians have no connection to Alexander the Great and his Empire and the ONLY claim to that name is geographic.

[@myhandlehasbeenmishandled]

There is only one problem with the arguments made by all sides. Just like some commenters here, they confuse cultural and genetic heritage, or perhaps they don't understand it. Genetic studies have shown that most people in Balkans have very little outside genetic make up. Culturally speaking people of North Macedonia might be Slavic but genetically they are a lot closer to Greeks than they are to Russians or Czech. Same goes for most of the people in former Yugoslavia. We are not that different from our ancestors. It's the culture that was brought by invading people and it became a primary culture.

[@giorikass1]

@@myhandlehasbeenmishandled im greek from PONTOS if you now the place in today Turkey, im not of makedonian origin but all im saying is GREAT ALEXANDER king of greece wasnt slav , and now i have to say CLEOPATRA wasnt black!!!!!! ISNT IT FUNNY THAT ALWAYS THE GREEKS HAVE TO DEFEND THERE HISTORY!!!!!! Are we the aggressors????? Did we say that Ivan the Terrible was greek??? No, we always defend, not only our, but the history of mankind!!!!!!!

[@MacedonianBro]

OUR ADJECTIVE IS MACEDONIAN !!!! So untrue what are you saying that we, the Macedonians are considering the ancient Macedonian as slavic language. Total bullshit from your side . And you build your tesis on top of that opinion. So untrue . Majority of Macedonians are thinking that ancient Macedonian language was separate from greek in that time still unknown origin and by the time,the Macedonian autocracy/nobility adopt the greek language as linga franca. The old ancient Macedonian language was forgotten. Every modern nation has ethnogenesis of their people and nation as we do the Modern Macedonians . Be biuld the connection with the Ancient Macedonians then mixing with the Slavs but we kept the Macedonian memories and identity. When you are mentioning facts why not are you not mentioning the quantity of population in North Greece before and after Ww1 . We were majority in North Greece and then banished from North Greece and we are talking about large numbers of ethnic Macedonians towards Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Then with people exchange between Greece-Turkey you got moving of Pontic Greeks from Turkey to North Greece in period from 1915 to 1922 . Not to mention the Metaxsas era and presurre towards Macedonians. My family is with origin from Kavala and Kastoria . My mothers family owned the Amouliani island near Atos mountain till the end of 1917 when Greek church seized the territory and moved Pontic Greeks . You got so nonsense said in this video sorry . Btw Macedonia change the name by force from our Government.The people dont agree . We had referendum. Didnt pass Voter turnout was around 37%, less than the 50% threshold required to validate the results . The nation didnt aprove the name change even the Macedonian president didn't officially agree of the name change . Other thing . The Macedonian Nationalist Movement aka VMRO . Ataturk was part from that movement as support . For nothing was the Marseille attack/killing of French foreign Minister and Serbian King also and Bulgarian Prime Minister?! For nothing was the Miss Stone hostage scandal ?! For nothing was the attack of Solun/Thessaloniki or the Boatmen terror attacks from Veles ?! For nothing was the forming of communist idea in Albania transfered by the Macedonian fugitives in Albania?! The right man of Enver Hodxza was ethnic Macedonian by the name Koçi Xoxe?! For nothing was the leader of Soviets who was ethnic Macedonian Georgy Malenkov ?! MACEDONIANS ARE HERE AND ALIVE !!! If the Greeks and Bulgarians denying something that means that something is existing. Then why is that all noise ?! If everything is quiet then must we don't exist by the logic .The Macedonians were native and majority in North Greece,then why the efforts for assimilation and expulsion and replacement with Pontic Greeks and change of the names of places . Till 1989 there was no area called Macedonia. It was officially North Greece . When they felt the independent Macedonia they were scared and tried to seize the monopol over the brand name Macedonia. Isnt that stink from the bottom ? For fuck sake the Macedonian Church is called Ohrid Archepiscopy and only inheritance of Justinian's Church ?! Recognition from Vatican and Ortodox Church . Fuckin Pope and Vartolomej was in Macedonia. And you smarty pants ranting in this video we are ranting bullshit?! Tell the fact also that Greece didnt had Aegean Macedonia till 1918 until West helped with Bucurest Agreement. Same shit now with the EU and bullying my people. You know what fuck you . Nobody needs to tell me who im . I have the human right .

[@serpent8516]

what if phillip and alexander spoke non-Indoeuropean language?(like Etruscan or Basque?) Luke, tell about those non-Indo-European languages.

[@Lara__]

I travelled to Skopje and I found it ridiculous that they were busy constructing ancient ruins and statues, obviously making up their history as they go along. That is rather inflammatory and I can understand why Greeks are upset.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Thank you for your Honorable input! 👍🏻

[@janeza382]

Yes Greeks are upset because in Balkan wars 1913 taken Macedonian land Macedonians was assimilated there over the years whit Greek nationalistic propaganda. Ancient ruins he says....

[@Lara__]

@@janeza382 fake news, just like everything else about fyrom

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@janeza382 Greeks are Happy! They restored their Macedonian Lands that were theres since Antiquity! 👍🏻 That is BS, there were some Bulgarian invaders there, and after the wars there was a population exchange between Greeks from the Coast of Bulgaria with Bulgarian invaders. Thats all. Your Propaganda doesn’t work here goran, sorry! 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@janeza382]

@@SpartanLeonidas1821 Macedonia is land Greece is ancient Roman myth.

[@sgtK0420]

My country South Korea did not establish diplomatic relations with Macedonia up until 2019 after they solved their naming dispute with Greece. It was because our principles of diplomacy always put great emphasis on respecting the countries that fought for us in Korean War, which was in this case Greece. This was indeed a very interesting situation. I wonder if there are any other countries that actually went as far as to not recognize Macedonia like we did.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

North Macedonia you mean my friend. Macedonia is a Region in Greece as you may know. Thank you to the honorable Koreans that kept that stance until we resolved the issue, we appreciate it! 👍🏻

[@gregoiremp]

As a Greek, we thank you South Korean people for respecting us. Plz @1993Kwon edit your comment, South Korea established diplomatic relations with NORTH Macedonia in 2019.

[@aleksandarchorbeski7841]

excuse me what's that country "South Korea"

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@aleksandarchorbeski7841 South Korea is a real country. Unlike you, you are just a self-hating bulgarian with an expiration date! Tik tok slobodan…😃

[@mydogsbutler]

Why you are calling it "macedonia" when the country is called NORTH Macedonia and Macedonia is in Greece?

[@eltarlantezos]

It was not just a name dispute. In their curriculum, especially during Gruevski's administration, referred to Greek lands as "occupied". Greece didn't fight just a historical appropriation, but a heavily irredentism mindset that was running rampant.

[@mydogsbutler]

Skopians get away with the lying and irredentism because their foreign apologists unethically keep blaming Greeks to hide their mistake of ridiculously recognizing these obvious frauds as "Macedonians". Unfortunately, many Greeks have stuck their head in the ground on this rampant racism towards ethnic Greeks. The primary issue isn't Skopje. The real problem is the racist antigreek trolls that supported them. They all know they aren't "Macedonians" any more than they are "Athenians:" but used them as a proxy to harass us. Greeks and the Greek government need to call out these Greek-hating liars.

[@eltarlantezos]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 Oh, you did change your name! Actually you have been humiliated as the first one having to change its name in the 21th century. And the Egypt you try to downgrade is one of the greatest civilizations ever. It's insulting to put your country side by side with Egypt.

[@mydogsbutler]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 "The whole story about Ancient Macedonia sounds undoubtedly very nice. However, there is a great problem, a huge hole of about 2,000 years during which we have neither oral nor written tradition, nor a single scientific argument” - former Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski, Focus News, 31 March 2008

[@mydogsbutler]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 "We are Slavs. There's no connection between us and Alexander the Great. " - Kiro Gligorov, President of FYROM

[@mydogsbutler]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 "The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made." - Denko Maleski, former Minister of foreign affairs of FYROM from 1991 to 1993 in an interview to FYROM newspaper Utrinski Vesnik

[@greekbyzantineempire7466]

Ancient Macedonia (/ˌmæsɪˈdoʊniə/ ⓘ MASS-ih-DOH-nee-ə; Greek: Μακεδονία), also called Macedon (/ˈmæsɪdɒn/ MASS-ih-don), was an ancient Greek kingdom on the periphery of Archaic and Classical Greece, which later became the dominant state of Hellenistic Greece.The kingdom was founded and initially ruled by the royal Argead dynasty, which was followed by the Antipatrid and Antigonid dynasties. Home to the ancient Macedonians, the earliest kingdom was centered on the northeastern part of the Greek peninsula, and bordered by Epirus to the southwest, Illyria to the northwest, Paeonia to the north, Thrace to the east and Thessaly to the south.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Quite

[@zazazazizizi6276]

AH AH AH !!!! " Macedonia ancient greek kingdom " AH AH AH AH AH AH AH AH Only a frustrated neo-faky-greeky can reply what you write !!!

[@alphaomega9236]

All the universities of the world know that Macedonia was a Greek kingdom. Alexander and Phillip are Greek Names. It is ridiculous anything else

[@niknik1604]

You right ❤️🇬🇷🇨🇾❤️

[@aaronmarks9366]

I agree, although keep in mind that logically, someone having a name coming from a certain language doesn't necessarily mean that person is from the culture of that language. Look how many Alexanders and Philips there are in the English-speaking world, none of whom are Greek.

[@janeza382]

Macedonia was one of the kingdoms of the ancient world Greece become kingdom in 1821 because kingdom of Greece did not existed in the ancient Go back to you Roman city state Athens.

[@niknik1604]

@@janeza382 Alexander the great United the greek City/States in one State/coutry . Even before Alexander the great all the greek Citys knew that they were all greeks. Same Heritage, same Languege , same Religion , same Moral and customs . There was always Greece.

[@niknik1604]

@@supermavro6072 All universe know that turkish people today are islamized greeks , areminas , asyrians and kurds, albaninas , arabs etc . Original turks from Asia: Uzbekistan Mongolian are very very very few . You dont even Look like Them .

[@faryafaraji]

Oh thanks for the shoutout mate! And loved that description of the Balkans. I used to wonder why I’m so drawn to them, and then I put two and two together: I’m originally from the Middle-East, of course I feel at home in deranged, unstable nationalistic political cesspools with some of the most beautiful cultures and history on the planet 😂

[@bogdanstamenic2836]

Oh, I guess that's why I think the middle east is so neat😂 it's a cesspool of ethnic tensions like the Balkans😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for watching, my friend! Haha I’m glad you enjoy the richness there as much as I do.

[@giorikass1]

Middle-East???!!!!!! national????? isnt your thing there religion ??? kill the infidels or free the holly lands??? ??

[@BBarNavi]

oh hey it's the FIRST reasonable comment and of course it's by the most based historical music youtuber

[@siyacer]

good music

[@cozyeagle9734]

I am from Italia 🇮🇹 High educated. In Italy we study ancient Greek and Latin at Liceo Classico (the best possible high school). Makedonia is Greece 🇬🇷 Alessandro Magno il Macedone! Not only! Macedonia area helped to develop Greek Culture and Fortune! Honor and glory to Macedonia Greece 🇬🇷 THe Ancient Romans always respect Macedonia, Greece and Greek language and culture. Also today the elite has to learn to study Ancient Greek and Latin, the only two keys of success. Even in America Harvard or best university they miss those two keys! Ancient power back again! UNA FACCIA UNA RAZZA. ITALIA GRECIA AMORE AMORE AMORE 🇬🇷❤🇮🇹

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Bravo! 🇬🇷❤️🇮🇹 ….👍🏻

[@georgefarmakis9238]

Greetings to our beloved Italia

[@petritdemiri2066]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@petritdemiri2066 🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@hedylus]

The Roman aristocracy were Greek speakers and they employed the Trojan-killing Latin Greeks to defend them, by forming them into armies of mercenaries trained and organised to kill for the Senate of Rome, i.e. the aristocracy. Most legions were not only full of war-like Latin Greek speakers, but also Aegean Greek speakers who often took on Latin Greek names when joining a Legion. Those who could speak both Latin Greek and Aegean Greek could quickly rise up in the ranks to Centurion, but that's as far as they could go without applying and getting Roman Citizenship at the level of Praetorian.

[@xantiphos]

Chilean of Greek ancestry here. In my country and in most Latin American countries, it's taught that Alexander the Great and Macedonia were Greek and integral part of Hellenism, and that the other country is a land usurpers that were given their name by Tito after having the original name of Vardarska.

[@MultiCanEman]

And you are gravely wrong about this deductions.

[@xantiphos]

@@MultiCanEman oh yeah? Give a serious argument then. I'll wait

[@MultiCanEman]

@@xantiphos You need to prove he is Geek. Whole world knows he is Macedonian:)

[@xantiphos]

@@MultiCanEman I asked you to argument and you tell me to justify myself, when it should be the other way around. Anyway, let me see: -Macedonians origin was considered the same as the Greeks, even when it comes to mythical origins. The name Macedonians comes from Greek μακρός, to refer to tall people, because since the Antiquity Macedonians were considered to be tall in relation to other Greeks. -Macedonians spoke an Hellenic dialect from the Doric family, just as the Spartans. -They worshipped the same gods as the rest of Greece. The Argead dynasty, from which Philip II and Alexander descended, claimed to be descendants of Heracles, a Greek. -All the inscriptions of Ancient Macedonia are in, surprise surprise, Greek language. -The Macedonians were allowed to participate in the Olympic games, the most sacred Panhellenic event. -Macedonians were conquered by Persia, but even then they provided useful information to the other Greek city states during the invasion of Greece by Xerxes. Do you want me to continue? Or are you going to tell me that fallacious argument that Greece didn't exist during Antiquity?

[@MultiCanEman]

@@xantiphos Not at all. This is today modern Green phantasy. For you guys even Baklava is Greek rather than Turkish. You know only one thing very well, and thats to make lots of noise and expect credibility. For ancient Greeks Macedonians were never Greek. Its only after the victories of Alexander that you started to embrace him. Alexander is a Macedonian legend who conquered Greece along with Asia Minor, Persia and India. Alexander always seperated Macedonians and Greeks in his army. They never considered themselves as Greeks.

[@OFilellinas]

Thanks for this accurate video, even though I would personally be slightly less dismissive of Greek people's desire to emphasise their connection to Ancient Macedon and the rest of Ancient Greece, which I think is perfectly legitimate (albeit occasionally somewhat unnuanced in its expression) and it is also understandable considering the important role that their ties to Ancient Greece played in fuelling the Greek revolution and therefore the very existence of their country. I think we should celebrate that spirit. Also, I think you're being slightly too intellectually charitable when you suggest that a (mostly) Slavic people naming their country "Macedonia" can be interpreted as paying homage to the ancient people that lived there, just like naming an American town "Athens" or "Sparta". Greek people obviously don't care about the latter. And why would they? Naming a city, a district or any other kind of place simply does not carry the same weight and implications as naming a country. A country's name always makes implicit claims about the identity of its people, which in this case are at best confusing, and at worst fraudulent. That being said, I think Greek people shouldn't spend too much energy on this. They've already won the fight. They had already won the fight even before Slavomacedonia (which is what I call that country) was officially renamed. Almost no one outside Slavomacedonia thinks Greece's Slavic neighbours have anything whatsoever to do with Ancient Macedonia and Alexander the Great, and whoever does believe that has as much credibility and influence as the Flat Earth movement.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for the comment, well written

[@mydogsbutler]

And as a Greek, I'm sick of Greeks like you cowardly being apologetic to the foreign liars that called them "Macedonians": Obvious leftists like you are trending on dangerous waters claiming them Macedonians. (also see Greek civil war).

[@MenelmacarGR]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Fred. We miss your videos and hope you're great in health.

[@smitsos1]

Hi Fred - I agree that there are significant implications in nationalising a name. An Athenian from Georgia typically identifies simply as an American, while a Macedonian from the Republic of Macedonia may not only perceive an ontological connection as a Macedonian but might also feel a nationalistic obligation to assert any affiliation with this semantic association. Initially, seemingly innocuous, such perceptions could potentially harden over time. Nevertheless, I also share the view that Greeks have devoted too much time to debating this issue, and it's now time to shift focus. On a positive note, the discussions against Slavo-Macedonians have served as an educational opportunity, allowing many 'lay folk' to gain a deeper understanding of Macedonia's history.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@smitsos1 You have a fiasco in 2018 th ! You affirmed Slav Macedonian like never before . Thank you very much . In the top of everything you recognised them as Macedonian in the North , independent . It is better than before when it was federal part of Yugoslavian Federation . You humiliated yourselves because no change of a name acquired ! It became stronger "Macedonian to the North" as a country while the rest is territory only . Your justification that they speak ugly Slav language is not a great excuse in this democratic World if there was Macedonian uprising and registration of a separate Republic ! You know , in the sample of French Revolution ! So , it speaks how you couldn't punish them , having fogoten their Greek heritage , because not all Slavs came in Makedoniae Province and changed macedonian perception if they didn't lost that "macedonian" name !

[@Fyrapan90]

Something else that people forget is that the ancient Macedonians also participated in the ancient Olympic games and at that time only people who where considered Greek could participate in those games which is even one more proof that Alexander and Philip was Greek.

[@janeza382]

Modern Greeks are not Hellenic they are Roman Christians. Hellenism in ancient ment same as democracy today it was ideology that Romans took for imperialistic irredentist pourposes.

[@Fyrapan90]

@janeza382 Modern greeks are hellenic lol what are you on about!

[@hiphopandpop]

​@@janeza382lmao majority of Greeks are J2 DNA Haplo group, Romans are R1B DNA paternal.

[@supermavro6072]

@@janeza382 they are rums of eastern turkeye

[@supermavro6072]

@@hiphopandpop they are rums of anatolia

[@nikolaoskonstantinidis3505]

As a guy from Macedonia (Greece), I don't get why you think Greece's reaction is an overreaction. It's not just a name dispute, it's appropriation of history. We had reached a point where people from other countries thought that Alexander of Macedonia was from the country of North Macedonia and not the Greek region of Macedonia. If anything, Balkan countries rely a lot on tourism. Imagine a region like norther Greece, if they lost that little tourism they had due to history. Also, I used to live abroad and it used to piss me off when they asked me which region I was from and I said Macedonia, and they were like "Oh, so you're not Greek?".

[@miroslavfilipov6589]

As a guy from Macedonia (Bulgaria) I think you wen overboard with a LOT of things related to Thrace and Macedonia, despite me agreeing with you about the ancient origin of Alexander's lands and people.

[@gxts7414]

The Greek region of Macedonia is Macedonia, it always was and will be, the fact that your government stole it in 1913 doesnt change that. You are not greek and are not related to helens, you are a mixbreed of turkish slav and albanian and u claim ancient greek history? Pirin is ours not yours, your government and people have oppressed Macedonians for more than 100 years in their own land so far.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

It was before ! In the time of Yugoslavian gathered different nations ! You as a new country Helas didn't have in your history that 15 centuries huge percentage of Macedonian population were Slav enlightened . Not because some percentage Slavs "came" but macedonians were cristianised and by time were enlightened with new modern Slavian culture . You have been frustrated about Yugoslavian nations superiority ! It is big shame to hide and destroy data of Slavianisation in Macedonia but you are brothers with Serbia ! You are not to be blamed having no history records that real macedonian were Slav Enlightened legally in Roman Time Mcedonia Provonce with Cirilo& Methodius Enlighteners from Salonica not in Alexander's time . And you are not to be blamed for Bulgarian paralelly stretched Empire by grabbing Macedonia in Roman time . Macedonians were in double Imperial pressure , Roman and Bulgarian ! It is out of logic Macedonian old etnicity to have been wanished , and all Slavs came in empty space famous Makedonia Province . Bulgar came to rule with exosted Macedonian population without custady . Serbia came too pretending the continuation of Byzantium ! You were happy too , hiding the reality that there is Republic Makedonija up above your Region Macedonia in Helas country due to Cold War tensions ! That "Cold War" is finished matter , but you are continuing to have very owful politic due to your past situation with the Hunta ! Macedonia as a Republic got it's independence now stepping out of federation Yugoslavia as real country Makedonia independant , but you still don't understand what was abbreviation FYROM for ! It was warning that Macedonian Republic cannot be whipped out because you like it ! Nonsences from the Metaksas time are still present in your rethorics . You don't respect the fact that nobody is saying , Alexander the Macedonian was Slav ! Take it easy and look forward the fact that Macedonians will remain Macedonian if they are for 15 century Slav Macedonian recognised in EU because there isn't Macedonian Nation in Helas ! Action of negotiation are taken with EU , and by 2028 Makedonian Republic will be EU member ! Like it or not ! You as the Helasian be what you you are ! The big confusion is happening in your history where your country is not officialy registered as country Greece but it is Helenic Republic ! It is your pet name Greeks ( Graeci or Gorki on Slavic )given out of Alexander the Macedonian Era ! He was Macedonian not Greek because he have never heard about expression "Greeks" at his time especially the word Greece using by you with two "e" as a funny joke . Everybody knows that Greece is English expresion for fun how could Alexander have known that joke name ? He was Macedonian Helenist practicing Helenistic culture which was spread widely from Mesopotamia to Danube in Europe ! If you are going to become clever and moderate you will gain benefit of living together as EU members both countries because all people in the World are understanding what is Region and what is it when a nation is registered separately because the times of colonial past have broth that destiny ! Helas don't have Macedonian Nation in its constitution so , nobody is stealing "Greek Macedonia" now when we are all becoming European , and borders will be free soon ! Do you know what ? You cannot attack us , we are Macedonian nation , NATO member !

[@miroslavfilipov6589]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 are you a bot or a real person? I'm not trying to be offencive or anything, and I apologise if you are real. I just find it odd that I can sware I've seen this very same word salad posted elsewhere...

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@miroslavfilipov6589 There is a time , you will change your rethorics . Yes Aexander the Macedonian was Macedonian Helenist . Not Slav !

[@Sassannid]

As an Iranian, this would be similar to Iraq or Turkey calling itself "Persia" today. Sure, the lands were part of the old Persian territories, but they're not ethnically Persian so it would be a mischaracterization and wrong in every way. People would hear about the Persian empire or this or that and many would automatically equate it to the country called "Persia". So I fully understand why this was annoying for Greeks

[@aspalathossplit3001]

Thanks There is an ancient Persian inscription that Ancient Persians called Macedonians as "Yauna Takabara"= Greeks with sunshield hats

[@fluteferret1129]

Persia is Iran . Thats clear to us greeks. Long lasting enemies :)

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@aspalathossplit3001 MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIANS. you = frog.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA od KRAL FILIP ! ! !

[@rossfun9840]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 "MACEDONIAN" NATION NEVER EVER EXISTED , KING FILIP WAS G R E E K , ILITERATE BULGARIAN TROLL !! !! !

[@giannisv.4472]

Calling ancient's macedonian's dialect not greek is like calling any other greek dialect not greek. If you hear the pontic dialect or the cretan dialect you will think they are different languages because you will be comparing them to another version of a greek dialect (modern greek) that has become more prominent and the majority of people speak it. However, if you trace them back to it's common "ancestor" language you will find they have the same roots and are in fact greek. Saying ancient macedonians spoke a version of dorian language (ionian, doric, aeolic etc) is like saying they spoke a version of greek. Also, language is a living organism and can evolve differently in different regions occupied by the same tribes, especially in the past when they did not have any means of fast remote communications like the internet. In that way proto-greek evolved differently in athens where arts and literature thrived (and thus creating, the modified version of ionian greek, the "attic greek", which became prominent in ancient hellenic world and eventually formed the basis of "Koine greek" which was spread to the whole known world after) and differently in the kingdom of Macedon which fell behind in some points (still a kingdom although most Greece had shifted to city states after the greek dark ages, still an argicultular society mostly). To elaborate my last point, ancient Athens evolved the greek language in the way it did, because the basis of Athens' society was trading, arts, literature, democracy and attic greek fitted that athenian foundation perfectly, whereas Macedon shaped their version of the greek language based on a more ruralized society which focused agriculture and defending against other tribes from the north for most of it's early history (this explains the lesser frequency of written texts found in the early stages of the kingdom of Macedon). This is why saying that there was a possibility ancient macedonians did not speak greek and probably only spoke a version of an indo-european language is wrong. Of course nobody will argue that ancient macedonians' native language was the attic greek dialect as you mentioned because it clearly was not (however you treated attic greek as equivalent with the whole greek language), since as it's name suggests it was firstly spoken by the residents of the Attica region, which includes Athens, and not in Macedonia. However, it must be made clear that the spectrum of greek language is huge and includes many forms of it and dialects, such us mycenaean greek, dorian, "attic greek", "koine greek", pontic greek, cappadocean greek and many more examples including the language ancient macedonians spoke. Modern greek language traces it's roots back to all these different dialects. In conclusion, nothing in history suggests that ancient macedonians spoke anything else than a version of a greek dialect (which obviously could and was infuenced by the languages of other tribes in the near regions such as Illyrians or Paeonians) and even mentioning the possibility that they did not is absurd. This (linguistics field) added with the traditions, self-identification of the Macedonians and the legacy that they left behind makes them 100% Greek and anyone who is doubting that is sadly influenced by false propaganda or serves devious purposes. For that reason, you see, sir Polymath, under every post against hellenic history you see defenders greek history, often times with poorly expressed (comedic also) opinions, but defenders nontheless. Not because, modern Greece as a state will gain anything if little Yuri thinks that Alexander the Great was a slavic person, but because this is the truth and by forgetting our history as humankind or even worse distorting it only bad things will the future hold. Sorry for the long incoherent text it's 6 am and hard to express everything in a language that is not my own.

[@janeza382]

Dude ony Greeks have dialects and others have languages. So in the ancient there was many spoken languages written on Ancient alphabet and rewritten by Romans.

[@giannisv.4472]

​@janeza382 do you mean other languages don't have dialects? what about the Irish language which is a dialect of the Anglo-language which evolved into modern English? Or the southern and northern Italian dialects or the Swiss German and low lands German? I don't understand you. Dialects are not solely a Greek thing and a quick internet search will convince you

[@Miggy19779]

@@janeza382 We have the historical record that tells us Ancient Macedonian is either a greek dialect or a very closely related hellenic language. It 100% wasn't proto slavic or anything of the sort.

[@mydogsbutler]

@@janeza382 "Dude ony Greeks have dialects and others have languages. " Try putting an American hill billy with a deep southern drawl in the same room with a Brit with an Eastender cockney accent.

[@ShiftySqvirrel]

@@giannisv.4472 Irish is Celtic, not a dialect of English or closely related to it. You might be thinking of Hiberno-English, which is the English natively spoken on the island of Ireland.

[@savvasavraam8670]

The name North Macedonia didn’t satisfy the Greeks. The Greek population didn’t agree to the Prespa agreement. There was a referendum and Greeks voted against but the “president” at the time did not even care and went and signed the agreement for North Macedonia. The Greeks would agree only to a name that doesn’t have the word “Macedonia” in it.

[@hedylus]

Yes, you're right.

[@mehegama]

Are you on drugs? When was there a referendum on the prespa agreement in Greece?

[@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi]

Macedonian here 🇲🇰, even we didn't agree to the name. The president just agreed to it. Basically it was forcefully changed but we didn't agree to it and still call our country Macedonia

[@hedylus]

My grandfather was born in Skopia when the city was almost entirely Greek. He said that it was the Russians and the Austrians which gave the entire city the ultimatum of get out or they would be forcibly removed. This was to end the Bulgarian civil war and to give the dissidents somewhere to go rather than be massacred by the Bulgarian nationalists. It shouldn't have been associated with Makedonia at all, since Bulgarians are not Makedonians and still in principle Bulgarians. Adding Serbs and Albanians into the mix doesn’t make them Makedonian either.

[@mehegama]

@@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi you can call it whatever you like, but it has zero legitimacy. You country is officially and constitutionally named North Macedonia. End of story

[@apollonmagg4603]

I am Greek and I need to say a big Thanks to you because you have managed to explain in a very clever and kind way what we are shouting all these years.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I’m glad you liked the video, sir.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

Meh. It's ok, you should just take it as a compliment. As ......African countries keeping their names as ..... "New this and that" even tho they "expelled the colonizer Huwite" long time ago. Not that you are White and Slavs are Africans

[@fidemporas]

@@g.h.milanboseblut5616 You forgot to take your pills again.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

@Anonymous-mh1vs Oh yeah, I mixed up New Guinea with Equatorial one. Are you sure there wasn't some with changed name, like Noua or Neue? Anyhooz they chased us out and now ask for us to get back. That's OK. That happens in whole Europe. Many people, especially Slavs, take our German names and turn it into something Przđżśćslv and claim its forever been like that. Or some Roman name, when it was Roman empire - for example Ulpiana and they rename it to Lipljan and say "Noooo.... it was forever Lipljan, from the word lipa, a birch tree"

[@peterfireflylund]

Someone from the former Ottoman Miliyets says what?

[@patataki_]

While your conclusions are generally correct you vastly underestimate Balkan nationalism and how the communists had territorial aspirations in Greek Macedonia. Greece did not overreact; Greece put out a small fire of territorial aspirations fueled with manufactured identity to avoid putting out a much larger fire of actual territorial claims and threats later.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That seems like a reasonable explanation.

[@janeza382]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Dont receive gift from Danayans. Go to church.

[@costasmegas]

There is also an important point about this disagreement which is often neglected - Exports and Tourism. The province of Macedonia in Greece is heavily invested in many products and wines, and derives a significant portion of its revenue from tourism. That includes historical tourism. The claim that "this is the real Macedonia" and that Alexander the Great "was from here" thus also had economic ramifications. Imagine if the state of Michigan changed its name to Canada and started exporting bottles of "Canadian Maple Syrup" with pictures of Justin Trudeau on them. I'm willing to bet many Canadians would be upset. Add to that the irredentist aspect of the conflict, which might have otherwise faded, if FYROM didnt put SO MUCH effort into basing their entire national identity on a man that is so clearly culturally affiliated with Greece, then Hellenes would not have made such a big deal about it. They even made an "Alexander the Great Airport"! There just absolutely needed to be a way to separate Macedeonia proper from Slavo-Macedonia (a name many Greeks would have vastly to the current "North Macedonia" solution, which doesn't do much, given everyone just drops the "North" bit. Least we got that ruddy flag changed. =)))) Love to my Balkano-slavic brothers regardless.

[@jessehawkins4823]

Huh, a point I had not considered. Thanks.

[@StergiosMekras]

Heh, good point but this is closer to Egypt suddenly calling itself Africa.

[@mistaPL]

I am not sure Trudeau on a wine bottle wout make for a big sales hit😂 You made me consider alternative names for North Macedonia... Macedoslavia, maybe... Slavcedonia...🤔

[@موسى_7]

excellent comment

[@costasmegas]

@@mistaPL I don’t think so either 😂😂. Let’s say Ryan Reynolds!

[@eleanar6252]

Νομίζω πως όσο αφήνεις τον οποιοδήποτε να έχει πάνω σου την οποιαδήποτε επιρροή και αξίωση, στο τέλος σε "καβαλάει". Αργά αργά. Και για αυτό φωνάζουμε για αυτά τα μικρά τουλάχιστον. Η χώρα μας σε αντίθεση με το παρελθόν είναι μικροσκοπική και δεν έχει καμία δύναμη πάνω της. Δείτε το τι γίνεται με την Τουρκία η οποία συνεχώς παρενοχλεί την Ελλάδα για τα νησιά στο Αιγαίο. Όλοι αναφέρονται σε αυτό ως "dispute". Αυτό σημαίνει πως υπάρχει περιθώριο για συζήτηση, αλλά τουναντίον. Αν δεν παραπονεθούμε, αύριο μπορεί να έρθει η Γερμανία ή μια άλλη μεγάλη δύναμη και να πει...οκ να τα πάρουν τα νησάκια και να μην γκρινιάζετε. Αυτό μπορούμε και αυτό κάνουμε. Έτσι κατάντησε η χώρα μας. Αυτά.

[@fluteferret1129]

Αυτα συμβαίνουν όταν είσαι αμερικανικό προτεκτοράτο

[@oplon82]

I don't get it. If the slavs want to create a forgery of a national identity as 'Macedonians' why not proclaim themselves as Greeks of Macedonian region and unite with Greece. This would save them from a lot of dangers including a direct confrontation with the Albanians.

[@NamelessGR]

​@@fluteferret1129 Λες και έχεις άλλη επιλογή με τους Μογγολους να σου χτυπούν την πόρτα

[@theamericancristero7390]

I've found that wading into Balkan & Eastern European ethnic disputes is to be avoided like the plague, but it's your funeral Luke.

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

Don’t throw all of Eastern Europe in with the shenanigans of North Macedon. 😤😤

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Well, like I said in the video, the dispute was brought right upon me in the previous video, so I'm fine with commenting on the commentary.

[@cuber5003]

​@@Nikelaos_Khristianosit's not just north Macedonia, Yugoslavia is out of control with disputes like this

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

​@@polyMATHY_Luke No, Luke, you don't understand. Hummmm..... the mind wash propaganda in the former communist federation republics is sooooooooo strong..... that ..... Serbs are SURE Jesus is a Greek who spoke fluent Serbian and that Hercules was a Serb, because he had four Cyrillic "s" on his skirt (Byzantine 4 "s" on the cross, from their coat of arms), and that they founded Sorbonne (Serbonne), and of course Wien and Venice (Wendi = Serb tribe). During the 90s and craze of war mongers, psychotic killers who tried to cover their lunatic atrocities, we, the normal people just thought they've gone berserk, or just let their undereducated clinical lunacy surface up, but.... nowadays.... after 3 decades of brainwash (all that I mentioned is officially taught, in schools, totally psychotic), I'm actually worried they completely lost their minds

[@borisnegrarosa9113]

For some reason Serbs tend to hate Portugal, my country of origin. I wish someone could explain that.

[@Love78787]

"Both Herodotus and Thucydides describe the Macedonians as foreigners, a distinct people living outside of the frontiers of the Greek city-states" - Eugene Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus p. 96.

[@ΝικοςΑναγνωστοπουλος-ν2ν]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zme8k2WkpJVri7s

[@AthanasiosJapan]

We know for sure that Alexander liked Iliad and he was also reading other books in Greek. What it really matters is that Alexander had a classic Greek education and huge respect towards Greek authors. If you want to claim that Alexander is your ancestor, then do what he did: Read books in Greek!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s a lovely sentiment.

[@pyrphoros8739]

Frederik the great of Prussia would only speak french in court and had a passion only for french philosophy and literature, but he is still considered german. It could still be that Alexander was not greek even if he appreciated the culture. But making Alexander slavic is one of the greatest historical leaps off logic i ever heard.

[@georgios_5342]

@@pyrphoros8739 Alexander himself had signs put up in his conquered lands that wrote "Alexander of Philip and the Hellenes except for the Spartans", he never considered the Macedonians as something other than Greek. Even the notion that he wasn't Greek only appeared in the 20th century by Slavic revisionists

[@SnaRi-dc1nl]

@@polyMATHY_Luke a lovely sentiment??! wow, romanticism at its finest. I honestly can't comprehend you people. I am shocked and at awe with your fascination of something that happened 2000 years ago as opposed to something that is an issue today that is affecting the lives of real human beings. Sure, lets focus on Alexander, who cares what the issues of today are! I am sorry for my obvious frustration, but only he who lives this torture will understand me.

[@ΠαυλοςΕξαρχος-γ3κ]

​@@pyrphoros8739you probably don't know that he spoke greek since he started speaking.You know why?? Because ancient Macedonians were doric greeks(one of the four major greek tribes and the mast warlike one),just like spartans and epirotes.

[@giorikass1]

if cleopatra was black , alexander was slav.......

[@vytah]

And since they were related, they were both black slavs. Case closed.

[@olbiomoiros]

Obama is Albanian

[@hisenhasani2979]

Aleksandri ishte ilir I cili luftoj kunder grekeve dhe pushtoj greqine dhe keshtu me radhe shkoi deri ne indi Duke pushtuar toka

[@giorikass1]

@@hisenhasani2979 english OR GREEK please !!!!! im not albanian !!!! like ALEXANDER im greek !!! Maybe you are looking for this man another greek king of Illyria, maKedonia ,epirus he almost took Rome

[@stefanodadamo6809]

​@@hisenhasani2979no.

[@Alex-mn1fb]

Long answer, this video. Short answer, its definitely Greek. There, solved it for ya 😁 And btw, I am Slavic, and I absolutely do not condone the appropriation of Greek history by North Macedonia or Albania. Alexander and Philipp were NOT Illyrian, the heartlands of Ancient Macedonia are still in Greece in the northern area still called Macedonia, but the name has been applied to a wider geographical area for centuries, thanks in part to the conquests of Macedonian Kings, and the later Roman and Byzantine empires, who ruled that area as a PROVINCE of Macedonia, which was geographically a much much bigger area. (Same applies for Achaia, province to the south, which was named for the Achean League but came to encompass the entire south of Greece under the Romans) The whole issue is literally wishful thinking of 21 century nationalists in these countries who have irrational need to portray their nation as being older, more influential and powerful then they were, which is an endemic problem in every Balkan nation to this day. Its one of those, after all the unfortunate wars and ethnic conflict, we need to prove (to ourselves, mainly) that we are better then our neighbours. And its blatantly false from a historical sense.

[@demetriusstiakkogiannakes1326]

Thanks man. Now to form a distinct Achaean identity!

[@Miggy19779]

I agree, it's on the same level of cultural appropriation of a Black Cleopatra, it is shameful.

[@Alex-mn1fb]

@@Miggy19779 Absolutely! I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, I am from the general area where almost all of Cleopatras direct ancestors came from, and I would never dream to appropriate and say that she was anything but Graeco-Egyptian. Btw, that being said, there are Slavic North Macedonian and Albanian nationalist who DO try to appropriate Cleopatra, its not just and Afrocentrist thing (tho its much less known or visible) where they claim all Ancient Macedonians ( Alexander, Phillip, his successors like Ptolemy and Seleucus) were Illyrian. Even the North Macedonian Wikipedia page states that Cleo was a MACEDONIAN Queen (but in modern, North Macedonian sense). So sad how people need to write false history to make themselves seem more important and better (in their minds).

[@ДејанПетровски]

You said you are Slavic, we have many Slavic people like you who are part of the wrong side of history

[@Alex-mn1fb]

@@ДејанПетровски Uhm, I would say its the other way around. Besides, you cant be the judge of that cuz you are clearly biased 😁

[@ΜιχαληςΧατζησαββας-τ8ν]

i am greek cypriot....Even today i speak an ancient-middle ages greek dialect that a greek speaker of the mainland Greece could not understand...The roots of this dialect comes from Arcadia the heart of Greece...I believe, back then, a greek macedonian could not understand completely greek speakers of other regions and vice versa.

[@spyroscharalambidis7907]

@@ΜιχαληςΧατζησαββας-τ8ν Comme on, you are exaggerating a bit. With my Cypriot friends we have a perfect understanding of each other, so did I with my Pontic ancestors (a bit more difficult than the Cypriot version of Greek). Yes, there are differences, like, still, in any provincial part of Greece. But the language is essentially the same .Is it not like that with other parts of the World, especially when it comes to accent? Take Scottish accent to English accent! Or even within London itself, you have different accents in different parts of the city. All this issue is not about language. It is the wake / backwash of the Cold War. Whereby the communists wanted exit in the strategically important Aegean and used, as a vehicle towards this end, the residents of the then Banovina Vardarska, by systematically indoctrinating them since 100 years ago that they were descendants of Alexander the Great and thus rightful owners of the "occupied by the Greeks Macedonia of the Aegean".

[@Sofaditis73]

Aristotles (Alexander's Tutor) was also from Macedonia. The Slavs never questioned his Greekness. You also failed to mention that Alexander's grandfather participated in the Olympic Games which was ONLY for Greeks. And for history's shake, Phillip had erased from the ground Aristotle's hometown "Stageira". Greeks were fighting Greeks from the beggining of time. Even Today if an Athenian football team fan wants to irritate a fan of a nothern Greece's football team, he would call him "Bugarian" or "Turk" or "Albanian". Does this prove his not Greek?

[@alfaomega7186]

Πες τα χρυσόστομε!!!

[@jaskitstepkit7153]

No one believes Tito's lies expect them. Everyone calls the "Macedonian " nation as a Slavic one. Thankfully, the communists did not won.

[@yov_g7552]

bro ive never heard any of that Bugarian or Turk or Albanian, here in canada were brothers, cause were all Macedonian.

[@trinity6009]

well said

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@yov_g7552You are not Macedonian, you are Bulgarian. Real Macedonians are Greeks ONLY, as they have always been! 👍🏻 But Southern Greeks call the Northern Greek Macedonians as "Bulgarians" (your People) to make FUN OF THEM. It is an insult. No offense to you, Im just trying to relay the information..🤷🏻‍♂️

[@angelosdaresis1477]

ALEXANDER’s speech before the battle of Issus: "...We Macedonians are to fight Medes and Persians, nations long steeped in luxury, while we have long been hardened by warlike toils and dangers; and above it will be a fight among free men and slaves. And so far as GREEK will meet GREEK, WE shall not be fighting for like causes; those mercenaries with Dareius will risk their lives for pay, and poor pay too; WE on the contrary shall fight for GREECE and our hearts will be in it". Arrian, "Anabasis of Alexander" Book II, Ch.7, par.4,5 Cambridge, Massachussets, Harvard University Press

[@voivode1893]

en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Anabasis_of_Alexander/Book_II/Chapter_VII cant find those words. and also before battle of Issus, the army of Alexander the Great was in battle of Thebes?

[@eternal8886]

That is a lie. No greeks are mentioned ever in macedonian speech nor in any archives. The term greek appears after 1831. Macedonians are Macedonians, macedonia belongs to the Macedonians. Evrything else you add is a crime.

[@billtsirtsis7060]

Macedonia was Greek 3000 years ago and remains Greek today! Fyroms have no relationship to Macedonia other than expropriation of the name Macedonia.

[@Alex_FRD]

Whenever I give a class about this or have a conversation about it, I refer to it as "the Greek kingdom of Macedon" to distinguish it from (North) Macedonia.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s a very good way to make it clear.

[@olbiomoiros]

Truly unnecessary distinction. There really was only one Macedon in antiquity, and we should certainly not engage with history from a modern perspective, but with an objective understanding of the given period. Applying anachronistic distinctions really only manages to complicate our historical understanding, while also contributing to inaccurate interpretations of history.

[@Galenus1234]

​@@polyMATHY_Luke A better analogy for American watchers would be... If the US split up into 50 countries, thus forming amongst others the independent Republic of California, there could be some objections by Mexico fearing that this Republic of California might state claims on the Mexican region of Baja California. (To make things spicy "Balkan-style", you would have to add about two-thousand years of borders changing back and forth to the extent that the each part of the Southwestern US and Northern Mexico was at least once part of a region called "California".)

[@neroatlas9121]

In reality, none of them are really true macedonians as they had closer ties to the thracian peoples and illyrians. I'd argue albania makes for a stronger relation to ancient macedonia due to their illyrian roots. However even they cannot be called descendants of them. Since there was an ancient illyrian tribe called the albani already inhabiting the region around the time so this means there are no true descendants of ancient macedonians. North macedonia and South macedonia are the closest greece and macedonia are getting.

[@lucabarbanti8211]

​@@neroatlas9121This is no place for fantasies and albanian theories. Only facts. The kingdom of Makedonia was a greek entity.

[@jimmysgermaniotis2845]

Burning Persepolis Quote: He set the Persian palace on fire, even though parmenio urged him to save it, arguing that it was not right to destroy his own property, and that the Asians would not thus devote themselves to him, if he seemed determined not to rule Asia, but only to pass through as a conqueror. but Alexander replied that he intended to punish the persians for their invasion of Greece, the destruction of Athens, the burning of the temples, and all manner of terrible things done to the Greeks: because of these things, he was exacting revenge. but Alexander does not seem to me to have acted prudently, nor can it be regarded as any kind of punishment upon Persians of long ago. [Arrian Anab. 3. 18. 11-12]. 7. Speaking to his own Macedonian Commanders Alexander called a meeting of his generals the next day. He told them that no city was more hateful to the Greeks than Persepolis, the capital of the old kings of Persia, the city from which troops without number had poured forth, from which first Darius and then Xerxes had waged an unholy war on Europe. To appease the spirits of their forefathers they should wipe it out, he said. (Quintus Curtius Rufus 5.6.1) 8. King Alexander had his siege engines and provisions conveyed by sea to Halicarnassus while he himself with all his army marched into Caria, winning over the cities that lay on his route by kind treatment. He was particularly generous to the Greek cities, granting them independence and exemption from taxation, adding the assurance that the freedom of the Greeks was the object for which he had taken upon himself the war against the Persians. [Diodorus of Sicily, 17.24.1] 10. Speaking with Diogenes But he said, ‘If I were not Alexandros, I should be Diogenes’; that is to say: `If it were not my purpose to combine barbarian things with things HELLENIC, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, TO PUSH THE BOUNDS OF MACEDONIA TO THE FARTHEST OCEAN, AND TO DISSEMINATE AND SHOWER THE BLESSINGS OF HELLENIC JUSTICE and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me Diogenes, that I imitate Herakles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysos, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and DESIRE THAT VICTORIOUS HELLENES SHOULD DANCE AGAIN in India […]” [Plutarch’s Moralia, On the Fortune of Alexander, 332A (Loeb, F.C Babbitt)] 11. Dedication of Alexander to Athena Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, except the Lacedaemonians, from the barbarian inhabitans in Asia [Arrian, I, 16, 10] Alexander of Philip and the Greeks, except for the Lacedaemonians... If he was not Greek he would have said: "Alexander and the Macedonians"... but here it is clear that by the word Greeks he means all his soldiers, therefore also the Macedonians who were of course Greeks. 12. Prophesy of Daniel about Alexander And when the book of Daniel was showed to him (Alexander the Great) wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended Josephus (11.8.5) 13. Alexander points out the Pan-Hellenic character of his campaign Antipater and Parmenion advised him to produce an heir first and then to turn his hand to so ambitious an enterprise, but Alexander was eager for action and opposed to any postponement, and spoke against them. It would be a disgrace, he pointed out, for one who had been appointed by Greece to command the war, and who had inherited his father’s invincible forces, to sit at home celebrating a marriage and awaiting the birth of children. [Diodorus of Sicily, 17.16.2] 14. Alexander and Spitamenes’ wife The savagery of the deed carried more weight with him than gratitude for the favour, however, and he had her ordered from the camp. He did not want her tainting the character and civilized temperament of the Greeks with this example of Barbarian lawlessness. [Curtius Rufus 8.15] PHILIP V, KING OF MACEDON 15. Philip verifying he is Greek. PHILIP: For on many occasions when I and the other Greeks sent embassies to you begging you to remove from your statutes the law empowering you to get booty from booty, you replied that you would rather remove Aetolia from Aetolia than that law [Polyvius, 18.4.8]

[@alkishadjinicolaou5831]

Thank you for setting the record straight. However don't forget that because of Alexander Greek culture spread throughout most of the then known world. Hence the term Hellenistic period. If he was not Greek how could this have happened? We (Greeks) owe this to him and that is why he was voted the most important Greek in a poll in 2009. As to the Athenians of the time - especially Demosthenes - criticising him , that is not out of the norm. The Greek city-states often disagreed between each other and very often fought against each other example - most prominent of those wars was the Peloponnesian war between Athens and Sparta.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

I don’t know why Luke insists on never mentioning this!!! Is it deliberate? I don’t know, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt!!!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Alexander and Philip sought to legitimize Macedonia as a rightful Hellenic peer nation along with Athens and Sparta and other city-states to the south, and thus Atticized (a very specific kind of Greek language and culture back then) their kingdom. Attic was the prestige dialect since the century prior, thus Attic Greek was the language spread by Alexander and his lieutenants, rather than Northwest Greek or another dialect. Alexander certainly thought of himself as Greek and made every effort to make himself the greatest Greek who ever lived, especially according to Athenian/Attic norms. Alexander's and Philips' desire to legitimize Macedonia as Hellenic was either 1) because they felt they were as Greek as everyone else and wanted equal recognition, or 2) because they didn't have much in the way of Greek language or ethnicity or culture in Macedonia, but sought to adopt these things because they were the coolest game in town. The same thing happens in ancient Gaul: the Gallic peoples readily stopped speaking Celtic languages and learned Latin in order to Romanize themselves as quickly as possible, once Caesar and the Roman Empire made it eminently clear that the only civilization worth being a part of (subjectively, of course) was the Roman one. Look how the Holy Roman Empire was essentialy just a collection of German, not Italian or French or Spanish, city-states - Rome, like Greece, was the cool thing to be.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Hello Luke, if we consider theory number 2, how do you explain that the Overwhelming Majority of Onomastics were entirely Greek with many names & words Uniquely Epichorial in Macedonia? We are not talking about a few names & words here, we are talking about hundreds upon hundreds of names & words with clear Hellenic Etymologies! You cannot compare that to Ancient Gaul, they didn’t have Latin names & words. The fact that you avoid this overwhelming evidence as if it were minuscule is quite astounding, as you also mentioned it in your other video that you don’t take any of that into consideration! Even the earliest findings of inscribed names in Macedonia are 100% Greek like Themida, Pleoni, & Machatas! Again, we are talking about the overwhelming majority and hundreds upon hundreds of names & words here! Also, why do you never mention in any of your videos or comments that many other Greeks Hellenicity was "questioned" by the Athenians? Wouldn’t that be important to your viewers to help them understand the broader context & the intricacies of the Ancient Hellenic World during that time? I would never challenge you on any linguistic or pronunciation video, we all respect you & consider you the ELITE of the ELITE, but when it comes to the greater context of the Hellenic World according to the sources, it makes me wonder how much of the Ancient Greek sources you have actually read? I figure that it has to be a lot due to the nature of what the focus of your studies are! Hope to hear back from you!

[@alkishadjinicolaou5831]

@@polyMATHY_Luke If we start thinking like that we we'd better start disputing everything. We are discussing now whether Alexander was Greek when mainstream History teaches us that he was. If it's like that we'd better start disputing that the Elephant is not round.

[@vgiannakos]

discussing weather the Macedonians and Alexander were Hellenes, is a ridiculous thing in the first place. Like History begun with them. We have to come to the understanding, that Hellenic figures like them, are considered closer to contemporary times for the Hellenic civilization length through time. Phillip and the kings of the Macedons were descendants of an older leader called Makednos, thus the name Macedonia. Many centuries before Alexander. Now even before Makednos came to the region, it was already named Thrace. We are talking many thousand years before Alexander, around the time of Deucalion.

[@infotrady2178]

Alexander the Great spreads the Greek civilization centuries before even the word slav existed! Need to say more?

[@rossfun9840]

NO you said it all ! excelent comment ! i am really jealus that this comment was not made by me , but i will use it with your permition , Short and not desputable !!!

[@ΙωάννηςΕλ]

You are OK You told the truth in a few words Nice

[@eternal8886]

Thats a lie. The term greek appears after 1831. Everything is Macedonian, and everything you named as greek after that is imposterrrrrr. You will pay a rent for using and abusing Macedonian land and a retribution for the crimes done on Macedonians.

[@kcc7966]

and he was Macedonian. not greek.

[@infotrady2178]

​@@kcc7966 So what was the difference, since you noticed that? Language? Relligion? What was the difference?

[@demetriusstiakkogiannakes1326]

I would also like to point out that they do not only claim Alexander the great. But also other figures like Cyril and Methodius (whom were Byzantine-Greeks basically identified as Romans as well) and even other figures like Basil the second. Because he was part of the Macedonian Dynasty. Completely ignoring the fact that Basil was the Roman Basileus and as such, used and associated himself with the Roman identity at the time.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Indeed. It's a bit like claiming Vivaldi or Colombus as figures bringing renown to the Italian state, even though Italy was not yet a unified entity.

[@axelexiscus8660]

There is a small difference between Basil's Macedonia and Alexander's Macedonia that they also kinda ignore In that they're not the same place, what the Byzantines meant by 'Macedonia' was the Theme of Macedonia, headquartered in Adrianople, Thrace- where Basil I was from

[@giorikass1]

Basil II the Bulgar-slayer, he was tooooooooo kind only to blind them!!!!!

[@petergaskin1811]

Given that Basil's Greek name was Βασίλειο Πορφυρογέννητοςὁ Βουλγαροκτόνος or Basil II Porphyrogenitus Bulgarochthonos (Bulgar Slayer), I'm surprised that any Balkan entity would want to claim him.

[@axelexiscus8660]

@@petergaskin1811 except that he was an exceptional emperor who brought his empire to a golden age and filled the treasury to the brim with gold Brought peace and prosperity to his lands and defeated a foe that had plagued the Empire for over 400 years by that point Wow, he was a medieval ruler and ordered something reprehensible Like literally every famous historical ruler ever? He's hated in Bulgaria and loved in Greece (Because he was a net loss for Bulgaria and a net gain for Greece, shocker)

[@2k7shadow]

You know your country has excellent history when half your neighbors try to steal it. 💪🇬🇷

[@Koustas07]

@@2k7shadow not more than we stole from Albanian history for sure 😜

[@2k7shadow]

@@Koustas07 Im not having a commie lecture me on my country's history. Youre what we call "Ανθέλληνας".

[@2k7shadow]

@@Koustas07 And what "Albanian" history? The Turks that adopted a Roman name posing as Europeans?

[@Koustas07]

@@2k7shadow I don’t know what’s your background but don’t be a Greek more than Greeks.. Those people who you call Turks (Albania) have no connection with Turks. They were invaded from Turks like Greece was the same time. Those are authoctonous like us. And we have been along with each for centuries other until we start fighting each other and church divided us. I’m sorry to disappoint you but this is the truth. It’s not easy to say but I was disappointed too 😔

[@2k7shadow]

@@Koustas07 There is no proof that modern day Albanians pre date the Ottoman takeover of the Balkans. There is also not enough proof that Albanians are connected to the ancient Illyrians, like they claim. The only pre Ottoman thing related to them is the Roman name for that area, which they gave in an attempt to get a hold of a part of the Byzantine Empire. No, they did not fight against the Ottomans, but the exact opposite until late 19th/ early 20th century.

[@cazwalt9013]

Non Greek here. It doesn't matter if Athenians saw Macedonians as less Greeks or anything like that since these rivalries always existed between Greeks. Plus these views of Macedonia can be political too. So Greeks can take pride of all Greeks Macedonians Athenians Thebans Spartans etc... Since they all played a part in building the history of this great nation. Macedonia is actually REALLY important to Greeks, since they were the ones who started the hellenic period, where hellenic culture reached all the way to India and didn't stay where it was. After Alexander the great the whole region was being ruled by Greeks from Egypt to India. People where talking their language taking their customers etc... BTW Greece should actually pressure their neighbour to the north to change their name again maybe to skopja or something else. Skopjans claim Alexander Black's claim cleopatra Who's next?

[@ginnorossi]

I'm next, I claim to be the heir of Augustus, give me the empire

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Thank you for your Honorable reply! You are on the CORRECT side of History! Part of this whole problem is that people try to chalk this up to Greece being "unreasonable" & that the whole thing is just "silly" when there are actual future dangers in all of this for the Hellenic Republic. This "problem" may be used by other Powers to try to destabilize Greece, so it doesn’t matter if Skopia is weak or not. I would say that Greece has taken the responsible approach by trying to Nip this at the Bud while attempting to stay true to the Historical Reality! 👍🏻

[@cazwalt9013]

@@SpartanLeonidas1821 people who don't have a great history wouldn't understand. Ofc an American would find it silly. After all what do they know about history? And do they have any?

[@mariosathens1]

there are also many Albanians who claim the entire Greek History (Greek gods, Greek language, Mythical heroes etc) and even the Greek war of indepednce since the call all the Greek heroes as "Albanian origins" 😁

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@cazwalt9013 That is very true! I thought Luke would take a different approach, but it was the irresponsible one I would say. It’s his choice of course. But this is my opinion. Again, thank you for your Honorable input! 🙏🏻

[@untruelie2640]

In German, we call the ancient Kingdom "Makedonien", but the modern country (Nord-)"Mazedonien". So we use the indigenous spelling/pronounciation for the ancient region, people, etc. and the western spelling for the modern country and people. But I guess this approach fails when it comes to the people in the region because they don't have two different spellings.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Very convenient!

[@WitchVillager]

woah that's so cool

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

Well....Slavs spell it with "j". MakedoniJa

[@untruelie2640]

@@g.h.milanboseblut5616 But isn't that just the "normal" difference in country name endings between different languages? 🤔 The "-ien" for example is typical for German.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

@@untruelie2640 I'm Volksdeutscher from Serbia/Kosova. No. What I wanna say is there's serbizing the things..... like, the word delinquency. They say deli*kvencija. Just because it's unpronounceable in their language, or momenAt. Or..... simply.....adding -a in female names. It's just because they read as they write, phonetically, so.... if you, Daniel, have a twin sister Danielle, and you come to take a house in Serbia from your dead dad will, since there's no accents in names and double "l", and you're born the same day, she'll HAVE to be called DanielA. They'll do it of course with ALL names, because they're extreeeemely sexist, so no Trish, only Trisha. So, they add and change whatever they want. They for example write New York as one word. Njujork

[@TheDimHellas]

First and foremost, I'd like to commend this channel for its excellent content and for shedding light on important issues. As a Greek, however, I feel compelled to address some nuances: 1. It's imperative to note that the primary concern for many of us isn't just the secession of territories. What deeply concerns us is the portrayal and potential usurpation of a minority in Northern Greece, particularly in the Macedonia region. There's a considerable number of Slavic speakers here, but it's a misconception to label them all as Slavs; many are in fact Arvanites and Vlachs. The push by Skopje's government to stake a claim on this demographic is unsettling, to say the least. 2. Another pressing issue is the recent rise of a short-term ethnogenesis narrative. While we'd respect such developments elsewhere, it's disheartening to see it overshadow an undeniable historical reality: that the Macedonians, both ancient and present, are inherently Greek. It's misleading to base the Macedonian identity on the limited historical context of the pseudo-Macedonian Ilinden revolution, especially when even the partisan leaders of that revolution used the term 'Macedonia' geographically, distinguishing its inhabitants by their real ethnicities: Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians, Vlachs, and Arvanites. 3. Lastly, it's worth noting that the so-called patriotism/nationalism from Skopje seems to be strictly constitutional. True nationalism arises from genuine historical and cultural foundations, not by borrowing or misrepresenting the heritage of others. I hope this adds some perspective. Once again, great job on the content; it's always vital to keep the dialogue open.

[@FrancescoNavara]

Arvanites are Albanians and not Greeks.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

There isn't open dialog anymore ! The mutual agreement is finished in Macedonian Republic favour because you didn't change that " Republic Macedonia " ! If there is Macedonian Nation registered in UN , all which is Macedonia comes to Republic Macedonia jurisdiction ! Mind your fashism ! Time by time Macedonian will continue to be called Macedonian , because that "Republic Macedonia" is not joke ! Making jokes with legally verified Slav speaking Macedonian is fashism ! You made that plea , the name of Republic Macedonia to be changed but was not successful ! You are pushed not to call us Bulgarian any more ! It is not stealing history if Greek Macedonian were Slav Enlightened by Chirilo and Methodius in Roman time Province Macedonia before 15 centuries . The Clerical books were translated from Greek to Slav Macedonian official language ! As long as people of Helas country are ancient Greeks that much todays Macedonian called people are Slav Macedonian , with Slav Macedonian minority in Hellas country , because that kind of ( Slav ) nation is registered in UN ! There is no way back after 15 centuries to keep denial of Slav Macedonian and call them Bulgarian if they are registered North Macedonians because it must have been mixing of Original Macedinian in Majority with few Slavs because it was up to date to be so ! And now , If Slav Macedonian are Nation there isn't any other Macedonoan but Slav Macedinian because Helas do not have Nation Macedonian registered with their constitution !

[@Dragan-t6w]

​ Sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong. Mother of all languages is Serbian and I can prove it. Do you know that wild Greeks came to Pelasgian land and found culture and proto Serbian language and they just mixed with Pelasgian people and learned everything there? Here are just some examples. You can see first word is Serbian, second word is Greek and third word is German (Serbian, Greek and German) (ili-Alla-aber) (utočište- eutoichiste- Zuflucht) (blizu-pljsion-nahe) (breme- brjme- Gewicht) (koliba- kalyba- Hütte) (hod- hod-Gang) (Tece voda protiv vode-Teke wudas proti wudei-Es fliest Wasser gegen Wasser) (činim- xinjm- ich thue) (daleko- tale ko- entfernt) (dar-dar- Geschenk) (danak- danj- Abgabe) (delim- dieljm- ich teile) (Dever- dawer- Schwager) (trljam- tribo- ich reibe) (dom- dom- zu hause) (drzim- drassjm- ich halte) (duplo- diploo- verdoppele) (dva- dwo-zwei) (idu- ithuo- ich gehe) (jedan- jadon- eine) (grebu- grabo- kratzen) (kakim- kakam- ich scheiße) (klizam- kluzam- ich gleite) (glina- gli- klei) (kljuc- kljs- Schlüssel) (komora- kamara- kammer) (kanim- koinam- ich thue) (Koliko- kelikos-wieviel) (Kos- kossyf- Amsel) (klisura- klision- Schlucht) (kobila- kaballes-Stutte) (kokot- kokkos-Hahn) (leto- leto-jahr) (levo- laevos-linke) (mak- mak-Mohn) (manje- mjon-weniger) (mama-mamma- Mutter) (muva- muia- Fliege) (meljem- mullem- ich mahle) (merim- meirjm- ich messe) (mesec- meis- Mond) (magla-omichla- Nebel) (nosim-nisso-ich trage) (oko- oko- Auge) (orem- arom-ich ackere) (palica-pelekys-Keule) (put-pat-Weg) (pecem-peso-ich brate) (pero-ptero-Feder) (pijem- pjm-ich trinke) (pivo- pino- Bier)

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@Dragan-t6w Please make some deeper research on official Classification of European languages . How are divided on Old European languages and newer Indo-European based on an oldest language, Sanskrit which was mixed with European . Serbian language is not listed in Old European but in Slavic language of Indo-European group of languages South Slavian branch ! All these word you are mentioning and comparing are Sanscrit words mixed and differently pronounced because of other influences ! As the mater of oldest in Indo-European division on groups , Albanian is oldest and separate as unique with the most preserved Indoeuropean rots of words in ranking, and Serbian belong to Balto Slavic group of Indo-European languages which is coming after Greek , Latin and Germanic official classification ! Maybe you can repeat history for Slavianisation during Roman time by Chirilo and Methodius when Christianisation was in the process . Clerical books were translated from Greek and Latin on Old Church Slavonic language from which many European nations took example for their own alphabets to be made !

[@MacedonGreek-lf9sy]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 deeper search meaning Macedonia is Greek ..sorry for you …you don’t have identity 😉🖐

[@Peterkonto]

Is this a serious debate as if either the ancient macedonians spoke slavic or Greek..I think Greek wins hands down with this one..

[@janeza382]

I think Roman copywrite have wrong narrative. Languages was used as to spread word of God. Slavic and Greek are Romanticized terms of Christians by Latins.

[@ManveruT]

The fact that Slavs say that Alexander the Great was a Slav when, at the time, there weren't any Slavs in the area, not to mention that they didn't even exist as an ethnicity at all, is a complete farce!!! It's like Rey calling herself a Skywalker!!! LOL. On a more serious note, yes, indeed Greece was divided at the time into various kingdoms each with their own dialects, but there was always a kind of ethnic unity behind all those anatgonistic tendencies, and that unity appeared on multiple occasions, a good example is the unification of Greeks agains the Persians.

[@EasyGameEh]

it's funny when slavs fight other slavs over who's real greek when in fact none of them is

[@Dragan-t6w]

​ Sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong. Mother of all languages is Serbian and I can prove it. Do you know that wild Greeks came to Pelasgian land and found culture and proto Serbian language and they just mixed with Pelasgian people and learned everything there? Here are just some examples. You can see first word is Serbian, second word is Greek and third word is German (Serbian, Greek and German) (ili-Alla-aber) (utočište- eutoichiste- Zuflucht) (blizu-pljsion-nahe) (breme- brjme- Gewicht) (koliba- kalyba- Hütte) (hod- hod-Gang) (Tece voda protiv vode-Teke wudas proti wudei-Es fliest Wasser gegen Wasser) (činim- xinjm- ich thue) (daleko- tale ko- entfernt) (dar-dar- Geschenk) (danak- danj- Abgabe) (delim- dieljm- ich teile) (Dever- dawer- Schwager) (trljam- tribo- ich reibe) (dom- dom- zu hause) (drzim- drassjm- ich halte) (duplo- diploo- verdoppele) (dva- dwo-zwei) (idu- ithuo- ich gehe) (jedan- jadon- eine) (grebu- grabo- kratzen) (kakim- kakam- ich scheiße) (klizam- kluzam- ich gleite) (glina- gli- klei) (kljuc- kljs- Schlüssel) (komora- kamara- kammer) (kanim- koinam- ich thue) (Koliko- kelikos-wieviel) (Kos- kossyf- Amsel) (klisura- klision- Schlucht) (kobila- kaballes-Stutte) (kokot- kokkos-Hahn) (leto- leto-jahr) (levo- laevos-linke) (mak- mak-Mohn) (manje- mjon-weniger) (mama-mamma- Mutter) (muva- muia- Fliege) (meljem- mullem- ich mahle) (merim- meirjm- ich messe) (mesec- meis- Mond) (magla-omichla- Nebel) (nosim-nisso-ich trage) (oko- oko- Auge) (orem- arom-ich ackere) (palica-pelekys-Keule) (put-pat-Weg) (pecem-peso-ich brate) (pero-ptero-Feder) (pijem- pjm-ich trinke) (pivo- pino- Bier)

[@MasoMate]

nah he wasnt slav absolutely not, but if serbs can be Illyrian and slav then we can be Macedonian and slav. plain cut we are macedonians and even cyrllic was made by two Macedonians from Solun.

[@jamilire9747]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWG8g6qwhahmiM0si=kFfk6vC4STkP4RtB

[@MacedonGreek-lf9sy]

@@MasoMate hahaha only in your dream …Slavs was never Macedonian sorry the ancestors spoken

[@ntvans]

''Αρχή σοφίας ή των ονομάτων επίσκεψις'' Antisthenes. That is why Greeks will never accept the name or any of its derivatives. The Antisthenes quote sums up all the valid arguments presented in the comments below.

[@eduardosouto1116]

Ancient Macedonia = Greece, period. Just common knowledge. Thank you, Luke, for such an excellent video.

[@theslavicguy485]

@@alekkost🤦‍♂️

[@GoceDelcev2694]

greece never existed before 1823

[@Ίων-π8ρ]

True! Language is the same! Same nation! Hellas Greece are equivalents They were both used all the millenia.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@GoceDelcev2694 POZDRAV ! ! Tatjana od MAKEDONIJA

[@billyblioumisfilmlibrary1820]

@@alekkost You kidding right? Tell me something … The Hellenic civilization was not Greek?

[@Zisopoulos]

give a Skopian to read an ancient Macedonian text. The Greeks can easily. Because they are written in the handwriting of Homer, Aristotle, Hippocrates. The Slavs have nothing to do with either the name Macedonia or the land they currently inhabit, as they came to the Balkans in the 8th century. So don't be surprised and don't make stupid theories just scratching the surface. The name is the soul of a place. And this is GREECE.

[@whitegardenia3813]

Better yet, they can pay Macedonia, Greece, a visit and see the ancient monuments. Just one quick visit would solve their problem.

[@TomRiddle-2]

But why until the civil war in Greece, the region Macedonia was majority populated by Macedonians?

[@Zisopoulos]

@@TomRiddle-2 Indeed before the civil war there was a small minority of Slavs in Macedonia. Many of them collaborated against the Greeks with the Nazis. This is also the reason why after the civil war they left for Bulgaria and Skopje. Today the majority of Macedonia is inhabited by Macedonians. Like Thessaly from Thessalonians, Crete from Cretans, Epirus from Epirotes and Thrace from Thrace. I'm a Macedonian from Grevena and I can talk to all Greeks, even though I'm Macedonian. I can also read the ancient inscriptions in all the museums of Macedonia, but also of the whole of Greece. Do you think that a Slav from Skopje who THINKS he is "Macedonian" has anything to do with Macedonia's past? All ancient Macedonian names were and are Greek. In Greek PHILIPPOS means "he who loves horses" and ALEXANDERS "he who defends men". All the ancient cities of Macedonia have GREEK names which ALL GREEKS understand their meaning and no one else. Even the capital "SKOPIA" is Greek, while its current inhabitants have no idea what it means. They obviously need a psychiatric hospital. Their identity is Slavic and they should be proud of it, but they are not. They prefer to steal other people's story.

[@TomRiddle-2]

@@Zisopoulos Nah you are wrong about that. My grandfather fought in the civil war and had to run to Russia after. His family came to North Macedonia. Even before the war they weren't let to speak Macedonian and were killed if someone found out. My mother tells me story when a Greek priest heard them speaking Macedonian my grandfather had to kill him just to preserve his family. It was hard for Macedonians which were the majority nationality in Macedonia. It hurts the world I guess that we are the only who preserved our name and identity from ancient times till now. If you are Macedonian why you forgotten your roots, language and traditions?

[@Zisopoulos]

@@TomRiddle-2 "majority"??? Skopje claims that all Slavic speakers living in Greece are "Macedonians". In fact, a population much smaller than 6%, including Bulgarians, lived in Central Macedonia until 1912 when the Balkan Wars ended. Today's "Skopians" were no different from Bulgarians (their language is 98% the same). It was a tactic of the Ottoman Empire to move and mix populations, so that they could neutralize each other. This explains your question and I imagine that the "majority" you wrote, you just don't have even a superficial knowledge. Statistics and demographics are easy to find. On the contrary, at the moment in the state of Skopje there are 120,000 citizens of Greek origin, bilingual. Most Albanians, as well as Bulgarians. The main thing is that the neighbors have neither cohesion nor identity. And this leads them to usurp others.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

Another topic you should cover is: "Is the Romanian language historically Latin or Slavic". I know, and I know, for you this sounds like a ridiculous question, but this is actually what many balkanic trolls have put to question.😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ah indeed, I've been getting around to that. Soon!

[@Michail_Chatziasemidis]

If I remember correctly, Romanian was for some time written in the Cyrillic alphabet, wasn't it? P.S. However, script doesn't necessarily indicate that the languages that use it are closely related (cf. Chinese characters)

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

@@Michail_Chatziasemidis You're right, but the Cyrillic script has been forcibly adapted into the Old Romanian language. The Moldavian ruler Dimitrie Cantemir writes in his _Descriptio Moldaviae,_ that the Cyrillic script that he calls "Barbaric" was adopted after the Council of Florence in 1430, during Alexandru the Good's reign. So probably around 1431-1432 was it integrated for the first time in the Old Romanian language. He writes the reason why as well, he says that the metropolitan of Moldavia who was Orthodox, converted to Catholicism, Mark of Ephesus (the head of the Orthodoxy in Constantinople) ordered for a new head of the Metropolitan of Moldavia to go and get rid of all Catholics in the state. This new Orthodox head of the Moldavian Metropolitan, was a Bulgarian named "Teoctist", and he got rid of all Catholics in the country. But, he also asked Alexandru the Good to change the Romanian alphabet from Latin to Cyrillic so that it would be harder for conversion. Unfortunately we do not have any existent text in the Old Romanian language before 1431-1432 to know this. But the Oldest documents in the Old Romanian language with the Latin script are "Our Father prayer", written by the boyar Luca Stroici, in Moldova, in 1593 and discovered by Bogdan Petriceicu Hasdeu, it was considered the first Romanian text written in Latin letters. However, the researchers discovered another text, apparently dated 1573, 20 years earlier, the Book of Songs (The Todorescu Fragment), a text translated from a Hungarian original and probably printed in Cluj, with Latin letters and Hungarian spelling in the Old Romanian language. The etymological spellings from the text from 1573 were also preserved in the copies made after this text and in other works written in Transylvania and Banat, with Latin letters and Hungarian spelling but in the Old Romanian language. In the 17th century, the number of works of this kind would increase significantly, even if the Latin alphabet was used sporadically in the writing of Romanian texts. The most famous Romanian works from this century, written in Latin letters and with Hungarian spelling, are: The Psalms, to Mihail Halici, 1640; The book of songs, by Gergely Sandor from Haţeg, 1642; The Catechism, by Stefan Fogarasi, 1648, to which are added two other lexicographical works: Dictionarium valachico-latinum (Anonymus Caransebesiensis) and Latin-Romanian-Hungarian Dictionary (Lexicon Marsilianum, after the name of its owner), and a third lexicographical work, from Second half of the 18th century, Lexicon compendiarium latino-valachicum, compiled by a Romanian from the Bihor area, after a Latin-Hungarian dictionary by Paris-Papai. We have also probably an earlier mention of a Latin translated bible into Old Romanian in 1240s in the Diocese of Cumania as order by Pope Gregory IXth. Edit: I hope this helps you, thank you for the comment. But sorry for it being so long😂👍

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

@@polyMATHY_Luke It will be very interesting and hilarious. The trolls usually argue in this subject with those arguments: 1. The so called "re-latinization" of the Romanian language during the 19th Century, however, most linguists are trying not to use this word as we very well know that the Old Romanian language was already Latin by that point, just that some words of any kind (even including original Romance one's) were replaced by French, Latin and Italian words. We usually refer to this process as "standardisation" of the Old Romanian language. 2. The Old Romanian Cyrillic alphabet, (already gave some info to the other guy about this alphabet, if you want to check). 3. The Romanian ethnonym, they argue that the Romanian ethnonym of _Român_ didn't appear until the 19th Century after the foundation of Romania in 1859, as this country didn't exist until then, and that our original ethnonym was "Vlach" but they forget that first, it was an exonym, even Italians were referred as such, and in Hungarian, Italy is still called Olaszország. Secondly, the exonym literally meant "Latin-speaker". 4. They also take the examples from works done by Romanian linguists, whom in their view calls Romanian an original "slavic" language and that today's Romanian is an "artificial language". Hopefully I gave you an idea of what their arguments are based on, love your video tho about the Greek and "Macedonian" language, your face expression was spot on in the whole video, I couldn't stop laughing😂👍

[@موسى_7]

​@@InAeternumRomaMaterThe guys who say Romanian is Slavic and not Romance are as crazy as the people who say Ataturk didn't change the Turkish language.

[@PoliticswithPaint]

I can't wait to read the comments later

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Your channel is going strong! Wonderful to see. Keep up the great work.

[@PoliticswithPaint]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Thank you! Congrats on reaching 200k+ subs, well deserved!

[@AtomikNY]

Mandarin and Cantonese are definitely two separate languages. Speakers of the two cannot understand each other when they speak if they haven't studied the other one before. They do use a lot of the same characters, but they get used in different ways and both varieties have lots of characters the other one lacks, so even written mutual intelligibility is quite limited. In Chinese, varieties like Mandarin and Cantonese called 方言 ("local speech"), and while that often gets translated as "dialect" in English to reflect the connotation that it's part of a greater linguistic area, I think "topolect" is a more accurate translation.

[@pisse3000]

Indeed. They are clearly both Sinitic languages, but that's about as helpful as saying that English and Swiss German are both Germanic languages. Without studying the other you would not understand a word when spoken, but perhaps you'd pick up a word here or there in written texts.

[@paradoxmo]

⁠@@pisse3000 it’s not quite that simple. Many Cantonese speakers writing for a pan-Chinese audience write in Modern Standard Written Chinese, which is a distinct language from all spoken Sinitic variants that is based on Mandarin and Classical Chinese. Since everyone in the Sinitic language area writes in this literary standard then there is a case for the language being considered one language at least in part. When Sinitic speakers can’t communicate with each other orally, they resort to writing! So the written language is not like a difference between Swiss German and English. It’s closer to the situation with Standard German, which is the written standard for all German-language-area speakers even when they don’t speak the same German language. But yes, all the spoken Sinitic variants are distinct, and some variants (like Cantonese, Taiwanese Minnan, Hakka) have their own variant-specific orthography.

[@AtomikNY]

​@@paradoxmo It's hard to draw parallels between standard written Chinese and any non-logographic script. But if we are going to draw a parallel, I'd say it's more like medieval Ecclesiastical Latin than Modern German, where a formal classical version of a language is used as a written lingua franca among people speaking that language's descendants. But it's not even quite like that. It's more like how you could theoretically write Romance languages using some kind of standardized Latin spellings for the vocabulary, and standardize some of the grammar and vocabulary around Classical Latin forms so people write more similarly. That might allow Romance speakers to communicate effectively between different Romance languages, but it wouldn't make them part of the same language. It would just provide speakers of multiple languages a highly formal written standard that they could use for cross-linguistic communication, that isn't well-suited to representing anybody's native language.

[@harristv2502]

Even one proof that this language is some form of Greeks (and the complete absence of writing in every other language) is enough evidence...

[@georgios_5342]

As a Greek person, I think you did a pretty good job at explaining the basics of the controversy to an international audience. I would like to point out some more issues that you might find interesting, but bear in mind, this is the Greek perspective on the subject, so I might be biased here. So first of all, Ancient Macedonia is considered by Greeks to be a clearly Hellenic civilization, given that, while the spoken language is relatively unknown, all of the written evidence they left was in Attic Greek, just as many other less significant Greek states, or those that didn't have a literary tradition. Furthermore Macedonians had Greek names, participated in the Olympic Games (which were exclusive to Greeks) and their royal dynasty was from Argos, so clearly Alexander was Greek. The alliance they created was the League of Corinth, also known as the Panhellenic alliance. And in all their inscriptions they wrote "Alexander and the rest of the Greeks minus the Lacedaemonians". But just because something was once controlled by ancient Macedonia, doesn't mean that it can claim to be the successor of Macedonia, otherwise Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan are all successors of the Macedonians 😅. Or Bangladesh is the successor of the British Empire. We need to consider what people made and ruled the empire. And those people were a Greek tribe, the Makedones. The land that is nowadays in FYROM was also inhabited by Greeks at the time, as it was also home to a Greek community during the early 20th century (Monastiri, Stromnitsa, Geugeli and Doirani especially were Greek towns back then, their populations were later evicted by Serbia and Yugoslavia). And just because someone has conquered a part of Macedonia, doesn't make him a Macedonian, just like a Tunisian is not a Roman because it used to be the Roman Empire there. The name of the land comes from the people, not the people from the land or what used to be there. Getting on to my final point, it is also worth considering that the "modern region of Macedonia" is actually a concept conceived by Bulgarian Nationalists, then furthered by the Communist Internationale and the Nazis. It was essentially the plan to extend the classical region of Macedonia arbitrarily north to Skopje, so that it included Bulgarian populations. Sure, Roman Macedonia also had those borders. But first of all, Roman Macedonia was inhabited by Greeks, and second, Roman Macedonia hadn't existed for more that a thousand years by that point. So it is obvious that the only reason why Bulgaria popularized this extended version of Macedonia was that it allowed it to present the region as majority Bulgarian and therefore rightfully hers. Whereas Greece only considers its own region as true Macedonia, not because we claim the rest, but because we believe that the name of the region comes from the people that inhabit it. And since the neighboring people are Slavic and not Hellenic, they cannot belong to the Makedones tribe and therefore their land is not Macedonian. We used to also claim the four cities that I mentioned earlier as part of Macedonia because they had Greek populations, but Yugoslavia deported them so they are no longer claimed. And no, we weren't angry that the country would attack us. Afterall they have no army. We were angry that they are so blatantly stealing our history and presenting it to the world as their own. Our history, name, traditions, even products, are receiving an undeclared war from a slanderous neighbor, who pretends that ours are not the true ones but his are. That's the biggest problem

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I appreciate your detailed response, thank you.

[@georgios_5342]

​@@polyMATHY_LukeI tried to be as sincere and respectful to the other people as well. But Greeks often get angry when people say that the dispute is petty, exactly because we believe that our history and identity is our own, and its importance is to be decided by us for us, and not by outsiders.

[@georgiosa.9893]

Πες τα χρυσόστομε!!!

[@mpampismaniatis7634]

I wouldn't explain it better well done! And i m glad that the creator of this video read it because he irritates me.

[@noelleggett5368]

It’s all Europe now (except Britain). Have a drink and a laugh with our neighbour.

[@GilMartins-we2ej]

All ancient findings in historic Macedonia are written in Greek like in south Greece. So why are you saying Macedonians spoke a dialect, that was never written, and in south they spoke what was written in the findings?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Right, like I explained in the video, Attic is native only to Attica, to Athens, so anywhere in Greece that you find Attic inscriptions in the 4th century BC is indicative of a city that wishes to use the prestige dialect of Greece to elevate themselves - eventually Attic (Koine) becomes native most places, but not in the 4cBC. Attic was similarly used for its prestige all around the Mediterranean in the centuries that followed: Attic was not native to Egypt, and yet the Egyptians started writing it in during the Ptolemaic period. Thus every piece of writing in Attic can be discarded in our search for the native speech of the Macedonians. Essentially the only authentic piece of writing from ancient Macedonia that helps us is the Pella Tablet.

[@GilMartins-we2ej]

Ok thanks man @@polyMATHY_Luke

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@polyMATHY_LukeIve already shown you on another comment that we have another Curse Tablet as well. But you keep saying that we only have one. Why? Also, almost all of the Onomastics & Etymologies of the Macedonians from Early on are GREEK, with many of them being Unique & Epichoral Greek to the Macedonians themselves! There is Zero Explanation for that. There is ZERO comparison with the example of the Latin "Prestige" that you try to use…completely different Context!!!

[@ΣΤΑΥΡΟΣΓΚΕΡΛΕΣ]

@@polyMATHY_Luke up until now your answers were correct although there clearly is an attempt to ease the consiousness of the former yugoslavian republic of macedonia. But i had to answer to you , because clearly , there is a gap into understanding the attic greek or any greek. You and many other people, erroneously interpretate the old way of spreading language to the modern practices of doing so. The attic greek spread because many greeks relocated to new colonies and they were in big numbers. attic greek was not commonly used just because someone decided to do so, in a room full of diplomats, but rather on site with actual people spreading their language. since the mother of all sciences, philosophy and art of the greek people, happened in athens, people were buying aphoras, marbles with attic inscription on them which made them acustomed to attic greek. that is what made all the hellenic people to adopt it. further more attic greek had 24 letters by the fifth century b.c while all others included the chalkidians who everyone forgets what a powerfull and influential kingdome of evia was, formed the chalidiki colony, and also amphipolis was an athenian colony as well. that is how attic greek spread , primarily because of the chalkidians and eretrians. Now these 2 kingdoms and many other greek states had 28 letters like the digamma or your language letter F , the coppa an sambi. Attic greek had already removed them from their dialect making it more simplicit in a manner. It was also easier to adopt. This is the real procedure of language dialect adopted back then. All ,was applied literature, rather than diplomats deciding in a room. And IT IS ALSO FALSE , to say that some people used a different language but there are no evidence of that , instead all that is find is in greek so they have spoken a different language and adopted it later. This cannot stand. If they adopted the attic is because it was the most related dialect of greek for them to understand with ease. And of course 2/3 of macedonia region was a chalkidian colony.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

PELLA -- PELAGIA 25 CENTURIES MACEDONIAN LAND. PHILIP and ALEXANDER are born in M A K E D O N I J A ! !

[@davidbenhazar1778]

Luke: -Is Macedonia Greek or Slavic? Luke's subscribers: -Luci, Macedonia provincia Romana est et semper erit

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hehe

[@georgekiriak7027]

Lol This is smart commenting. as a Greek with an identity crisis between Greece and Rome i must inform you that we must look on the question on how much we greeks can claim Roman heritage . I am sure Luke know all about it :D Roma Invicta !!

[@RiccardoRadici]

​@@georgekiriak7027From Italy, I would admit that Greece was superior to Rome in most important aspects. There are a lot of people in the world who care about their Roman heritage, you Greeks should care mostly about the ancient Greek one, which is often underestimated: that's just my advice.

[@cazwalt9013]

​@@RiccardoRadiciout of all the groups who lived in the roman empire, only Latina and Greeks can claim the Roman identity. Latina being the original and Greeks adopting it and carrying it up until 1453

[@davidbenhazar1778]

@@georgekiriak7027 actually, it would be more productive not to argue about who are the Romanest Romans ever and who are stulti barbari, but to agree that Rome and romanitas are the common heritage of the European civilisation in general. *Roma aeterna!*

[@boo-gee]

Alexandre's quotes" for the analphabètes!! And there are more who anyone can find in the internet 1)"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas [Greece] and did us great harm, even though we had done them no harm before. I was made leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians, I have come to Asia, which I have taken from you. 2) “Shall I pass by and leave you lying there because of the expedition you led against Greece, or shall I resettle you because of your magnanimity and virtues in other respects 3)"Youth of the Pellaians and the Macedonians and the Hellenic Amphiction and the Lakedaimonians and the Corinthians... and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your comrades in arms and entrust yourselves to me, that we may act against the barbarians and let us free ourselves from Persian bondage, for as Greeks we should not be slaves to the barbarians.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

MAKEDONIJA IN SOUTH EVROPA ! ! your ancestor.. from Asia.

[@boo-gee]

@tatjanavelkova5814 ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ not MAKEDONIJA in slavic version makedonija mean nothing

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@boo-gee MAKEDONIJA NAME -- 30 CENTURIES ! !

[@boo-gee]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 you are slav and slavs people came from russia and russian people came from Finland. Macedonian is only Greek sometime open a book.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@boo-gee MAKEDONIJA IS MAKEDONIJA. MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIANS ! !

[@kourtourafi]

Allow me to attempt to enhance your understanding of the Greek rage over the use of the term Macedonia, using an example, or a parallelism, if you will, adapted to your reality. You are American, correct? You do know how Texas won its independence from the Mexicans, I presume (Sam Houston, Alamo, Antonio López de Santa Anna etc). Well, imagine a turbulent situation in the distant future culminating in the break-up of Mexico in a number of new sovereign entities, with one of them being the independent state of... Chihuahua. Now imagine this new state renaming itself Texas, simultaneously raising claim on the lands of the American state of Texas. Furthermore, imagine the self-proclaimed Texans (former Chihuahuans), alleging that they are the only true Texans and that Sam Houston and Stephen Austin were Mexican heroes who tried to protect the currently enslaved part of Texas from the voracious appetite of the greedy, hated gringos. Not a very beautiful picture, is it? In Greece, we've got a saying: "whoever stays out of the dance, knows plenty of songs", meaning that when a problem is not yours or doesn't concern you, you've got the luxury of making many suggestions or criticizing the ones who deal with it... until the problem reaches your back yard, my friend. I would also like to urge you to take into consideration that (past and present) historical revisionism is a tool... 'weaponized' not only by our North Macedonian neighbours for their benefit, but by other 'players' in the Balkans as well, such as Albanians, Bulgarians and Turks. If we allowed every (potential) revisionist to usurp our history and distort it in order to promote their overt or covert agendas, we would be the world's biggest buffoons... P.S. By the way, not all Athenians viewed Macedonians and Phillip as inferior or barbarians. For example Isocrates and Aeschines, as skilled and renowned orators as Demosthenes and Hyperides (leading figures of the anti-Macedonian fraction in Athens), clearly thought of Phillip II as the Greek leader who could unite all Greeks under his banner and eliminate the ever-present Persian threat once and for all.

[@johnsmith-ir1ne]

Excellent points I hope Luke read this

[@Yiannis_Voyia]

Καλησπέρα Λουκά, από ότι μπορώ να καταλάβω απο το επίθετο σου πρέπει να είσαι Ιταλικής καταγωγής, σκέψου τώρα να ζούσες στην Ιταλία και να έπρεπε συνεχώς να υπερασπίζεσαι τα εδάφη, τον λαό και την ιστορία σου από γειτονικούς λαούς που θέλουν να σε κατακτήσουν. Στην Ελλάδα κάθε γενιά Ελλήνων εδώ και 3500 χρόνια υπερασπίζεται την πατρίδα, παῖδας, γυναῖκας, θεῶν τε πατρῴων ἕδη, θήκας τε προγόνων. Το πρόβλημα είναι ότι από την επανάσταση του 1821 και μετά ο εχθρός είναι πλέον εντός των τειχών. Δόξα τώ Θεώ είμαστε ακόμα εδώ και θα συνεχίσουμε να είμαστε, για να μην υπάρξει κάποιος στο μέλλον που να πει ΄΄Σε αυτόν τον τόπο κάποτε υπήρχαν κάποιοι που τους λέγαν Έλληνες΄΄

[@Ελλάδα-ω3θ]

Σωστός

[@fluteferret1129]

Εντός των τοιχών ποιους λες ακριβώς ρε μαγάλε? Για τους συμπλίτες σου μιλάς. Και εσύ ποιος είσαι δηλαδή που θα κρίνεις τι λέει ο καθένας μας. Πάω στοίχημα ότι δεν ξέρεις γράμμι ελληνικής ιστορίας. Τα μόνα που θα ξέρεις είναι τους 300 και την Τροία επειδή είδες τις ταινίες. Αυτά με τους ανθέλληνες εσείς οι εθνικιστές να τα προσέχετε. Εσείς χάσατε την Μικρά Ασία, εσείς συνεργαστήκατε με τους Ναζί, εσείς χάσατε την Κύπρο. Δεν σας το κάνουμε και θέμα όμως. Όταν θα λες ότι είσαι πατριώτης δεν θα επιτίθεσαι σε συνελληνές σου ακριβώς μετά, γιατί έτσι καταλαβαίνω ότι μάλλον κάποιος σου έφαγε την γκόμενα μικρό και έχεις κομπλεξάκια. "ο εχθρός είναι πλέον εντός των τειχών" πιο σιχαμερή έκφραση δεν έχω ξανακούσει

[@markela18]

Hi Luke. I would like to say that I highly respect you and enjoy your videos. I was not going to comment since, as you said, the audience you were addressing was non-Balkans. I am also not interested in any potential "corrections" (or not) sort of speak in terms of the facts you presented, but I thought I would try to give you some more information to possibly help you and your audience better understand why this is so important for Greeks. Before I do though, as a Classicist myself, I would like to point out the deafening absence of modern Greek sources in the West when it comes to presenting Greek and the surrounding history. It may surprise many, (as I have found to be true in Academia) but we have great historians, archeologists, classicists, etc. whose works would bridge a lot of misunderstandings or possibly answer questions like yours if they were given the chance to be included in the telling of our own stories. Just leaving that here as food for thought. The rest I am going to type as someone who has researched and followed the issue from a Western country but who is part of the culture and understands the significance. We would not have a problem with a newly established country including the name of Macedonia in their name since part of the region they are on includes areas of Ancient Macedon, if it were not for the following (and I will attempt to put these somewhat into perspective for you): You said, it should not be a problem if North Macedonians want to pay homage to prominent figures of the area, just like it is not a problem that there is such place as Rome New York, but what if Americans decided that Rome New York should be now recognized as THE actual Rome of Caesar and that Rome in modern-day Italy should be either handed over to the Americans or should completely change its name since it has 'nothing to do with true Rome'....yes I know that would be hard to fathom especially since the US is far away from Italy geographically, so let me bring you closer. What if Americans decided that New Mexico should from now on be called Mexico and that the country that has this name should now either hand over the land, or change its name and identity to something that completely excludes anything to do with "Mexicans" because (and really try your best to wrap your head around this) "Mexicans" stole the history, land and identity of the TRUE (American) Mexicans.......crickets.....crickets.....crickets..... This is exactly what happened with Macedonia. The region in Greece has had a continuation of the name through history because, as you mentioned, this area is where the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom was. FYROM or now Northern Macedonia was named Vardarska before WW2. Not much of an issue at this point. What changed is the propaganda that was established by TITO at the time and remains to this day. The propaganda consisted of the Slavic people of the area being now the TRUE Macedonians of Alexander the Great, complaining of having had their "identity stolen" by the Greeks and their history "erased". They now wished for, and still do propagate to have "their country back" meaning taking the region of Greece to establish the 'original country' of Macedonia (as if such a country ever existed - look into pictures of community events in the US and Canada that freely and openly showcase maps of the 'Great Macedonia' including part of Greece). They also have fought against us and have actively tried to take over the Greek region of Macedonia, especially during WW2 and the wars thereafter. Don't know about you, but that spells hostile to me, especially since Greece has never claimed to want to take over the geographical area of Macedonia that is on their side and have the whole of Macedonia become reconnected in this way...(!) It does not end there though. They claim that Greeks - who btw also never existed as you pointed out too - have hidden the Slavic origin of Alexander the Great, and that he spoke an "ancient Macedonian language" which is connected to the language they speak now.....Something I KNOW YOU, the West, DON'T KNOW because they backpedaled it on time is that a few years ago they had Archeologists claim that the fact that there were Greek inscriptions found in Skopjie was "proof" that the Greek language was their own and we stole it from them, leaving them to have to resort into speaking a different language.....(well which one is it?). I am sure you can find a video or two on that on youtube still. Now, these would not be too important if they were just the opinions of a few uneducated people here and there, however, this is not the case. It is the stance of governments at different points of time, and it is certainly what is taught in their education system. A little research can show you a lot. There are many other parts of this propaganda but I think you get the idea. Now, with the Prespes Agreement, they agreed to 'cut ties' (claiming) to the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom they so wanted so that they would be stopped from continuing to claim the Greek region as their own, which would inevitably lead to war, but oh what a surprise, they went right back to that after the signing. They were also required to use the full name North Macedonia in order to help establish the difference between the brand name that the region of Greece has had for centuries in exclusive products, such as Macedonian Feta cheese, Macedonian Halva etc. which they DO NOT honor. If you search online you will see that especially in international culinary, business and other promoting events they purposely drop the "North" and just go with Macedonia which has legal and economic implications as you can imagine. To give you an even better understanding I will also mention that if it was just about a name with nothing attached to it we would have the same issues with Albanians and Turks, but we do not. Specifically, the Southern more part of Albania is referred to as North Epirus as it was land within the Greek borders and specifically part of the region of Epirus. However, during the WW2 the land was lost to Albania. I am sure you will find no news or videos made about North Epirus though. I will leave you and your audience with this: it is wise to know that when one is not involved in a specific history or culture, one is bound to be missing out on key information to understand the people. That is not a bad thing. It is simply true. The wise will say "I do not understand". The not so wise thing to do is to say "I do not understand, therefore it must be (insert adjective). We tend to look at others through the lens of our own stories. But, that is dangerous as it can lead to downgrading something that may be important to others. Something that we tend to do nowadays is to look at the past and place judgments on the people and cultures of the past according to our own time. This is part of presentism. I believe the same happens with, what I will call for lack of a better word, 'light localism'. I will interpret what is happening there, according to what is happening or not happening here and place my judgment accordingly. So, anyone researching this, or coming into this, please try to understand that the experiences of the West are not always going to be the same as other places and people. If they tell you something is important to them, please listen. They have their reasons.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

I agree with everything you say! New Mexico used to be part of Mexico, so even tho your analogy is 100% on point in spirit, people will try to say their BS & miss the actual CONTEXT you are trying to present here. Part of the problem is that neutral people like Loukas here chalks this all up to Greece being simply "Unreasonable", but the Greater Powers WANT these "Problems" which should be NON-PROBLEMS to exist to be the Aces up their sleeves for future issues & as future bargaining chips! This "issue" could be resolved with ONE simple LIVE Debate. Then again, in our WOKE World, everyone is allowed to claim anything & name themselves anything & we can’t say a word so that we don’t hurt their feelings. Historical Reality is sacrificed for peoples Feelings these days. Absolutely Ridiculous to say the Least! 🤡

[@peterfireflylund]

That text was longer than the Chinese Wall… And it all just more Greek complaining. I have almost never seen “West Bulgarians” complain anywhere in the last 30 years. Greeks, however, have been complaining and spouting nationalist nonsense everywhere. Did you know that there is a similar situation with Armenia the country and Armenia the region in Iran? Why can’t you be as sane and modern and civilized as the Armenians and Iranians?

[@markela18]

​@@peterfireflylundMr Peter if the Greeks are beneath you, you are very welcome to spend less time on this topic and spend more time on the matter concerning Armenia.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@peterfireflylund Western Bulgayrians are irrelevant! They have ZERO HISTORY & are a desperate statelet! The world is laughing at them & You! 😃

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@peterfireflylund PS, you will always live in the Hellenes Shadow my little insignificant & Goofy Barbarian. Always remember that! 😃 We Love your Tears SO MUCH!!!! 🤣

[@giannismihalakos4634]

Ask Dinitrov and Georgevsky to tell you about their "Macedonian" past and heritage

[@janeza382]

They say Macedonians are not Greeks. But they consider Greeks or Bulgarians as Christian Roman imperialistic claim. Yeah they are vulgar same as you.I am Macedonian ancient and medieval never Greko Roman but barbarian slave and vulgar but never "Greek" vulgar Roman.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

MACEDONIANS --- 25 CENTURIES ! ! "your" heritage... oil.

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 YES WE ARE GREEKS 🇬🇷👍

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα MACEDONIANS -- 25 CENTURIES ARE MACEDONIANS ! !

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 YOU ARE BULGARIAN 🇧🇬

[@2lazylizards961]

Alexander the Great lived between 356 BC - 10/11 June 323 BC and the Slavs came into this area 6th-7th century A.D , all most thousand years later,the end.

[@fotioslevakis236]

Everyone who thinks Alexander was talking Slavic is just uneducated ridiculous and mentally ill There was no Slavic meaning at Let’s end this at last…

[@Dragan-t6w]

​ Sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong. Mother of all languages is Serbian and I can prove it. Do you know that wild Greeks came to Pelasgian land and found culture and proto Serbian language and they just mixed with Pelasgian people and learned everything there? Here are just some examples. You can see first word is Serbian, second word is Greek and third word is German (Serbian, Greek and German) (ili-Alla-aber) (utočište- eutoichiste- Zuflucht) (blizu-pljsion-nahe) (breme- brjme- Gewicht) (koliba- kalyba- Hütte) (hod- hod-Gang) (Tece voda protiv vode-Teke wudas proti wudei-Es fliest Wasser gegen Wasser) (činim- xinjm- ich thue) (daleko- tale ko- entfernt) (dar-dar- Geschenk) (danak- danj- Abgabe) (delim- dieljm- ich teile) (Dever- dawer- Schwager) (trljam- tribo- ich reibe) (dom- dom- zu hause) (drzim- drassjm- ich halte) (duplo- diploo- verdoppele) (dva- dwo-zwei) (idu- ithuo- ich gehe) (jedan- jadon- eine) (grebu- grabo- kratzen) (kakim- kakam- ich scheiße) (klizam- kluzam- ich gleite) (glina- gli- klei) (kljuc- kljs- Schlüssel) (komora- kamara- kammer) (kanim- koinam- ich thue) (Koliko- kelikos-wieviel) (Kos- kossyf- Amsel) (klisura- klision- Schlucht) (kobila- kaballes-Stutte) (kokot- kokkos-Hahn) (leto- leto-jahr) (levo- laevos-linke) (mak- mak-Mohn) (manje- mjon-weniger) (mama-mamma- Mutter) (muva- muia- Fliege) (meljem- mullem- ich mahle) (merim- meirjm- ich messe) (mesec- meis- Mond) (magla-omichla- Nebel) (nosim-nisso-ich trage) (oko- oko- Auge) (orem- arom-ich ackere) (palica-pelekys-Keule) (put-pat-Weg) (pecem-peso-ich brate) (pero-ptero-Feder) (pijem- pjm-ich trinke) (pivo- pino- Bier)

[@mydogsbutler]

@@Dragan-t6w Slavs didn't enter the region until 1000 years after Alexander. All ancient Macedonian artifacts in Macedonia from the time of Alexander are written in Greek. Smoke less crack.

[@billyblioumisfilmlibrary1820]

@@Dragan-t6w So Serbian language existed before 9th Century?

[@Dragan-t6w]

@@billyblioumisfilmlibrary1820 Hey Billy, yes I'm uncovering amazing history of ancient world, very twisted right now to liking of the western powers but very different in the real world.

[@Dragan-t6w]

@@billyblioumisfilmlibrary1820 Here just some examples but I could go on and on………. CAN YOU SEE ANY SIMILARITY? GREEK TOOK SERBIAN LANGUAGE AND USED IT TO CREATE GREEK LANGUAGE!! (Serbian, Greek and German) (ili-Alla-aber) (utočište- eutoichiste- Zuflucht) (blizu-pljsion-nahe) (breme- brjme- Gewicht) (koliba- kalyba- Hütte) (hod- hod-Gang) (Tece voda protiv vode-Teke wudas proti wudei-Es fliest Wasser gegen Wasser) (činim- xinjm- ich thue) (daleko- tale ko- entfernt) (dar-dar- Geschenk) (danak- danj- Abgabe) (delim- dieljm- ich teile) (Dever- dawer- Schwager) (trljam- tribo- ich reibe) (dom- dom- zu hause) (drzim- drassjm- ich halte) (duplo- diploo- verdoppele) (dva- dwo-zwei) (idu- ithuo- ich gehe) (jedan- jadon- eine) (grebu- grabo- kratzen) (kakim- kakam- ich scheiße) (klizam- kluzam- ich gleite) (glina- gli- klei) (kljuc- kljs- Schlüssel) (komora- kamara- kammer) (kanim- koinam- ich thue) (Koliko- kelikos-wieviel) (Kos- kossyf- Amsel) (klisura- klision- Schlucht) (kobila- kaballes-Stutte) (kokot- kokkos-Hahn) (leto- leto-jahr) (levo- laevos-linke) (mak- mak-Mohn) (manje- mjon-weniger) (mama-mamma- Mutter) (muva- muia- Fliege) (meljem- mullem- ich mahle) (merim- meirjm- ich messe) (mesec- meis- Mond) (magla-omichla- Nebel) (nosim-nisso-ich trage) (oko- oko- Auge) (orem- arom-ich ackere) (palica-pelekys-Keule) (put-pat-Weg) (pecem-peso-ich brate) (pero-ptero-Feder) (pijem- pjm-ich trinke) (pivo- pino- Bier) (ulica-aulis-Gasse)

[@RomilosFronimides]

Man, you said it ALL in 12:00 minute, the people don't need to watch the entire video (which is GREAT, as all of yours): SLAVIC people CAME TO BALKANS no earlier than 6th century A.D... Alexander the Great, his father Phillip, all Macedonians were lived in 4th B.C.... That's ONE THOUSAND YEARS "gap", my dear Slavic Skopians!!!! So, whatever the ancient Macedonians were "actual Greeks" or "Barbarians" or whatever for the REST ancient Greeks... the SURE THING IS WERE NOT "SLAVIC" as you are!!! So,... it's at least RIDICULOUS to see Slavic people placing statues of ancient great people (like Alexander) that THEY WERE NOT EVEN CLOSE to their Slavic origin!!!

[@alexsinos2635]

My brother, the Slavic migrations affected all populations in the Balkans. The difference is mostly linguistic. The Greek national identity was created to establish unity in the people. Things aren't as black and white as you think.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES. slav.... sing o ee.

[@TheYehat]

There are no "slavic people" there are indigenous people. That legends of "slavic" came 6 AD is one of the "inventions" of 16th+ century. Same as Byzantine shit etc. Indoctrination got really brutal since 1800s. By that time there was not that many disputes, there were no "greeks" at all in fact.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

MAKEDONIJA --- 25 CENTURIES ! ! Vizantia before 13 centuries.

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 YOU ARE BULGARIAN 🇧🇬

[@eustathiosstratis5348]

Hi Luke, Kudos to you for talking about this situation. Can it be simplified to: that back during this time period of Alexander in antiquity, it can be agreed upon that there were Greek speaking people in the southern Balkans and the Aegean and Ionian islands and the coastal areas of Asia Minor? And can it be agreed upon that the Slavic peoples and languages came into the Balkans a very long time after Alexander? The thing is, my friend from High School who became a teacher of English as a second language in public schools said to me, "Alexander the Great was not Greek, he was Macedonian". I asked my friend how did 'they' get that information and 'they' said, that is what is being taught in the public school system History classes. I chose not to further discuss the matter. The Greek people like many other peoples, struggled and suffered greatly to build a modern nation out of the lands where Greek was a predominant language. They struggled to extract themselves out of the Ottoman Empire. It was not even till 1948 that the Dodecanese Islands became part of modern Greece. So I think all that history of struggle to have national boundaries would naturally cause concern and sensitivity about their northern boarder. The Greeks are continuously hearing threats from the Turkish government saying things like the Dodecanese islands belong to them. I lived in Greece for 20 years and the feeling I got from the people was that they do not want conflict with any of the boarder counties and they do not have expansionist interests. The atmosphere of unified Europe offers people a sense of security. In my opinion the problem is the governments, not the people. The people of Greece are genuinely hospital with the people on their boarders. There are Turks, Bulgarians, Albanians, North Macedonians living in Greece legally with jobs, homes and friends with the locals. This is what my experience was when I too lived and worked in Greece. I wish everyone everywhere Love, Good Health, Peace and Equality. I remain optimistic even if it is foolish.❤🕊☮⚖

[@zoomer_zveno]

A Bulgarian here with one correction which, though rather marginal to the video's topic, is crucially important to understanding modern Balkan history. The project for the creation of an autonomous polity (within the Ottoman Empire) or an independent state covering the entire geographic region of Macedonia which you mention originally came out of what would eventually be known as the Internal 'makedono-odrinska' ("of Macedonia and Southern Thrace/The Vilayet of Adrianople") Revolutionary Organisation. The VMORO was founded, led and overwhelmingly "staffed" by ethnic Bulgarians who, through armed struggle against the Ottomans, sought to achieve political autonomy for Macedonia and Southern Thrace as a stepping stone for their future integration into either a Greater Bulgaria or a Balkan federation. Neither of those two end goals entailed any sort of "Slavo-Macedonian" ethnic nationalism - the so called Right Wing of the Organisation saw Macedonia as an inseparable part of the Bulgarian nation while its Left Wing envisioned a multi-ethnic & multi-religious state within which local Bulgarians would co-exist with their Greek, Turkish, Vlach, Jewish and Albanian neighbours, all united by progressive revolutionary ideals and a common CIVIC Macedonian identity. The Bulgarian character of Macedonian Slavs was never a point of debate within the pre-WW1 revolutionary movement and a new Macedonian national consciousness would not start to develop until the 1930s

[@GeoHdReal]

The national consciousness started developing over a century earlier, meanwhile indeed it is in the 1930s when the movement became more organised and gathered more steam, partly due to the recognition by the comminterm. Research the Macedonian Literary Society in Saint Petersburg for example. Bulgarians tend to dismiss all claims of Macedonian nationhood conflating them all with the no-nuance takes they read online, and politicised weaponised historiographies written to distance ourselves from different neighbours at different times of our history. During the period of 1944-1948 the majority of Macedonian Public figures supported the proposed creation of a unified Macedonia under a balkan federation, as proposed by Dimitrov and Tito, people only started leaving ship for the Bulgarian side once the cominterm split happened and the Macedonian authorities were pressured by Tito to create a more pro-Serbian anti-Bulgarian Yugoslavia. Yet still many remained and tried to do the best they could with the new semi-autonomous state we had, despite the persecutions of the period, even of the greatest Macedonian heroes like Metodija Andonov-Chento. Another very interesting source for the popular sentiment of the period is "Списание Луч" which was an anti-government magazine that was published in Skopje during 1937-1939 before it got banned, it's authors reflected the diverse views of the time, from wanting to become an autonomous part of Bulgaria, just more autonomy within the Kingdom, or full on Macedonian independence.

[@zoomer_zveno]

@@GeoHdReal I'm aware of Georgi Pulevski, Chupovski, Theodosius Gologanov, Misirkov, etc. The thing is that their ideas had extremely limited, if any, influence over the "Slavo-Macedonian" masses, as opposed to the identity-molding educational and ecclesiastical institutions of the Bulgarian Exarchate and the local intellectual and revolutionary elites affiliated with them. The process of anti-Hellenistic cultural revival among Macedonian Slavs in the 19th century was inextricably linked with that among Thracian and Moesian Bulgarians, and virtually all prominent Macedonian figures of the period, from the Miladinov brothers and Grigor Purlichev to Parthenius of Zograf and Kuzman Shapkarev, actively worked for the development of a modern Bulgarian nation. It was only once the Exarchate - the offspring of that nationalist movement - had been forcibly expelled from Macedonia after the wars of the 1910s, that attitudes started to shift in the direction of further and further ethno-political differentiation from the Pan-Bulgarian project.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

21:56, I love this map. You realised something that you Bulgarians dismissed?

[@zoomer_zveno]

​@@GeoHdReal Already in the first few years after 1944 the Serbophilic Yugoslav-centric character of the Macedonian Communist leadership was being reflected in the suppression of soldier mutinies against deployment on the Syrmian front, the persecution of sovereignist Macedonian nationalists like Metodija Andonov-Chento, the imposition of a Serbian orthography onto the newly codified Macedonian literary language and the complaints of leftist Bulgarians/Bulgarophiles Pavel Shatev and Panko Brashnarov to Dimitrov and Stalin. In the ranks of the Bulgarian Communist Party, one could see a variety of perspectives. There were fervently pro-Yugoslav activists who would later be thrown into work camps as Titoist agents; there were cautious moderates who advocated for making the integration of the Pirin region into a United Macedonia conditional on the formation of a Balkan Federation and for a gradual, peaceful construction of a Macedonian identity not defined in opposition to all things Bulgarian; there were even passionate opponents of any Yugoslav influence and any concerted effort at Macedonisation like Vladimir Poptomov. The argument between Dimitrov, supported by Stalin, and Tito, about the structure and balance of power within the proposed Bulgaro-Yugoslav federal union, is also to be considered. The Cominformbureau Resolution of 1948 was only the tipping point, not the origin of any of these conflicts.

[@zoomer_zveno]

@@InAeternumRomaMater What?

[@hekatonikles]

You're making it sound like Greeks are just unnecessarily petty, which is not only oversimplifying but also wrong. It's not like they've been brutally occupied by other nations for many years. It's not like people are still trying to take what little land there's left (Edrogan anybody) by claiming some ancient connection/ownership. And trust me, North Macedonia is doing the exact same thing. People in Greece would be delighted, if they didn't have to worry about this bullshit anymore. Unfortunately, nobody outside of Greece seems to really care at all. But sure; they're just being petty...

[@vasiliskarpouzis9568]

I think you need to study about the Macedonian Struggle to get a better idea about the issue. Also, don't forget many people are not that well versed in history or Balkan politics, so when they see a country called Macedonia marketed as the country of Alexander the Great for tourism it is likely they will accept it as such. And that's before covering products for export.

[@nickname6052]

Luka, the Northernmazedonian speak Bulgarian dialekt. I took a Guy from Germany to Skopie. And he said, that in school they use to talk about a reunion of Mazedonia. So, the Greeks are right when they say, that the slavics want to take the Central Makedonia from Greece. It is no stupid Greek opinion like you use to say. Greeks are right. When you are looking in your iPhnones Languages for Mazedonian, than it is Bulgarian. So, you are not right Luke. Thanks Nikolas

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

..................... you + dialect..... in Urugvaj.

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 YOU ARE BULGARIAN 🇧🇬

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα I AM MACEDONIAN MK ! ! YOU eat bg ,,,,,, .

[@VladTevez]

So you have decided to live dangerously in your comment section? :grab popcorn:

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hehe most have been pretty civil so far, I'm pleased

[@camponotusinflatus9920]

So you're saying that Greeks should just be quiet and accept the historical appropriation?

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

And if Greece doesn’t, then Greece is "Petty" in the eyes of Loukas 🤣 Hilarious at best!!!

[@georgekiriak7027]

Great video Luke ! thank you . As a Greek i will not tell you that you made any mistakes . I will just add in 2 of your comments . 1. To understand the situation its not that the Greeks afraid that they will loose lands to fyrom (aka west Bulgaria 😂) but that whole thing is mostly about economy and the brand name of "Macedonia" that Greek businesses have build products upon and would never accept the fyromnians claiming and using that brand name thus taking part of the market . More over Greece is heavily relied in tourism and having a country trying to grab parts of Greek history and mythology would cause great financial damage . Those are the main reasons for the whole thing 2, About the vergina sun it was related by ancient sources to the founders of ancient Macedonia and especially Perdiccas (Περδίκκας) its was used in varius forms in Greece because Greeks had a sun God but in Macedonia it was even more related with their beginning as a group of people Thanks again for the Great video!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ευχαριστώ! Money and tourism are a big deal, that's true.

[@hliow2899]

If only we had Μακεδονία™ perhaps Μακεδονία®

[@nucleardragons]

And you shouldn't flipping accept it, except your northern neighbours everyone knows that Macedonia is mostly in Greece (I suppose Northern Macedonia is fair enough)

[@SrdjanBasaric-w2s]

I will remind you of only one thing, the dirty British lobbying in 1919 so that the Serbs would not get Aegean Macedonia (which then belonged to them ethnically) or pay the war damages that the Croats owed as a former part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The Greeks did not deserve Macedonia.

[@georgekiriak7027]

@@nucleardragons its a financial game and our hard earned money will not be gifted to them though our brand name that was build with great labour. Pls give them the brand name of your region and let them sell their profucts with your label . . Thank you sir Where are you from may i ask??

[@TooGumbica]

As a Croat and a slav, i agree with Greece. At best it should be named "Slavic Macedonia" (Slovenska Makedonija). As it still is in macedonia, its just filled with Slavic peoples.

[@georgiaargyrou4101]

Dear Sir or Madam, Hello from Macedonia, Greece. I, myself, am a Greek Macedonian. Are you really Croatian..? And if I may ask, what kind of Croat..? Dalmatian, Slavonian, Istrian, Bosnian (Croat), etc..?? I was under the ( perhaps wrong) impression, that the South Slavic peoples of Western Balkans were/are "automatically" in favor of the Slav Macedonians ( the Slavic majority people of North-Macedonians) due to the shared Yugoslav past..!! Thank you in advance for your responce...!! Have a nice day.

[@TooGumbica]

@@georgiaargyrou4101 No need to write like a professional letter. Im a Croat from Central Croatia. Dont get me wrong, i am for Slavic Macedonians, we are brothers, (this "for them" is a bit weird to say as im not involved nor do i think wars need to happen) but its still important to say like it is. The same way German Americans arent Aztecs, Slavic Macedonians arent Ancient Macedonians. They just have the same name (of the land). So it makes things confusing.

[@Fadeyes98]

If u ask a slav what the name Alexander, Philip, or Macedonia means, they d have to look it up in a dictionary. Case closed. 😂😂

[@salar1586]

If you ask a german what Deutsch or Germany means, they would say Its just the name of our country. Why does everything have to have a meaning?

[@Fadeyes98]

@@salar1586 I m not sure what u mean. But who needs meaning, right?

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Fadeyes98 ALEXANDER and FILIP ARE MACEDONIANS . before 25 centuries FILIP KING, ALEXANDER TSAR ON MAKEDONIJA

[@Fadeyes98]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 tsar? Makedonija? You don't make it easier for you my slav friend. Αλέξανδρος.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@salar1586 I WISH YOU NICE YEAR ! ! ! Tatjana

[@chrisgk7494]

I get why, as an outsider looking in you see Greece as overreacting, but the devil is in the details. You mention that when Yugoslavia was a thing there wasn't much of a problem why? Maybe because people saw it as a simple geographic distinction and no remember how Russian uses the Russian populations in other countries. And the cherry on top? A big percentage of people of North Macedonia believing that Greece is steeling part of their ethnic identity. The name Macedonia isn't the issue and you explained why it is in that region in the first place, what the name can imply is the issue. Side note I love your channel and your reconstruction of ancient Greek pronunciation, keep up the good work!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks very much! And thanks for the thoughtful comment, I appreciate having your point of view here. Like we said, I’m just an outsider.

[@chrisgk7494]

@polyMATHY_Luke And I appreciate channels like your existing on KZbin. History and languages are fascinating topping, and we can all learn something. Also, I am sure I have my bias been greek and all my school education from the public Greek school. So outside perspective is always welcome, especially when the topic is history, so facts are the most important thing. The great thing about facts is that they don't have a country of origin.

[@reynaldoneto1976]

don't know if this is oversimplifying, but just so I understand better. Was the capital of ancient Macedonia located in what is now Greece or in North Macedonia? The classical political entity, in its beginnings, spread across several modern countries, right? Thanks in advance for the explanation. Nice channel!

[@stephenlight647]

It’s too simple a fact, BUT the fact is that the Macedonian capital was in Pella. Which you can visit today IN GREECE!!! Not in the geography of the Slavic Skopians. 😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That's a great question. Pella was the capital, and it is in Greece. Most of the original Macedonian kingdom is within the bordern of modern Greece.

[@reynaldoneto1976]

@@polyMATHY_Luke It's a really interesting story. The case of Bulgaria is also complex. Slavs, Thracians, Bulgarians... maybe one day you will explain this story to us!

[@laSd123]

Solun(Thessaloniki today) is the capital of Macedonia 🇲🇰

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Almost all of the Lands of the Original Historical Lands of the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom are in Greece except for about 7% of it in which some of it falls in Skopia & the other part in Bulgaria. The Greeks ONLY CARE ABOUT the Historical Region of Ancient Macedonia, not the later Romans Lazy interpretation of Makedonia Protis & Makedonia Deutera, I think Loukas forgot to mention that on the Coins found on these territories that the Romans renamed that the coins are in Greek using etymologically Greek Words for the populations there, I wonder why? 🤔 Regardless, the Macedonians Presence is seen in the Medieval Greek Sources & they are STILL Greek Peoples with Greek Names at that time! The Greeks were ALSO a plurality in the Vilayets of Thessaloniki & Monasteri [Ancient Herakleia Lynkestis] in all the ottoman Census as well after the islamic turks. As a matter of Fact, in these Historic Macedonian Regions the ottoman Census done by Hilmi Pasha states that there were: 634,510 Greeks 🇬🇷 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] 355,729 Bulgars 🇧🇬 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] No ethnic "Macedonians" were EVER mentioned in any of those Censuses conducted! In those Greeks, before any Population exchanges are the ACTUAL Remnants of the Ancient Macedonians & that Legacy belongs to THEM.

[@dannye1572]

Its Greece of course!! I'm Serbian.

[@ΙωάννηςΕλ]

Greeks and Serbs always together always and forever 💙

[@AdamStoltz-y4g]

@dannye1572 - God bless the Serbian people. We Greeks love our Serbian brothers and sisters. We should have taken up Slobo's offer to join and have a common border again when he offered it to us during the Yugoslav War.

[@Mkmkmksh]

And Kosova is independent and Albanian!!!

[@AdamStoltz-y4g]

@@Mkmkmksh - No country is independent anymore, except for Serbia, Hungary and Slovakia. All other countries are vassal states. Kosovo might have majority Albanians but it is SERBIA. Always will be.

[@ILLYRIANW0LF]

​@Mkmkmksh ofcourse am, am here now .

[@goalsdraw8897]

I just happened to visit the royal tombs of ancient macedonian kings in vergina including the grave of king philip himself ( father of alexander ) and the museum of AIGAI , old capital of ancient Macedonia , 2 weeks ago . Once you really visit these places you do realize all these are nonsense propagandistic crap we allowed people to even dare question . Everything there SCREAMS GREEK .

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Absolutely!!! All it takes is ONE VISIT !!!! The Macedonians were not just Hellenes, they were the most Zealous Hellenes that ever existed & were eager to Hellenize everything in their Path!!!!! 😃

[@georgefarmakis9238]

The funny thing is that the Slavs of "North Macedonia" don't even visit these museums.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@georgefarmakis9238 Facts! 💯👍🏻

[@dinos9607]

As said above : the Slavs of """"""North Macedonia"""""" (i.e. North of Macedonia) don't even visit the Macedonian archaeological sites.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@dinos9607 I wonder why they don’t? 🤣

[@baklavaconsumer1080]

4:24 Accurate map of thessaly after the rains

[@gnas1897]

😂

[@christopherdieudonne]

Please don't take this the wrong way but I could listen to you explain things forever. You're a great story teller !

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s very kind. As for stories, I think it’s important for folks new to this topic to go research more on their own, since my presentation here is pretty superficial. Thanks again!

[@italuswikiano1191]

...with a mellifluous voice.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

Don't worry, I compliment him like that all the time, he's very cool and smooth guy, he understands. It IS very .... what's the word.... engulfing. His voice, his... very precise pronounciation. It's basically magical to listen to him. He knows we don't mean we are in love with his voice as in love. He has a gorgeous Italian gf. As Latina as it gets, from Lazio

[@janeza382]

He is an ameteur.

[@ΜάνοςΑπέργης]

Thank you for doing this video

[@willmosse3684]

You wouldn’t believe how many people I have met in Romania who INSIST that Latin originally comes from Romania and went to Italy later, and therefore all Romance languages descend from ancient Romanian. They all seem to believe that if their grandfather told them this, this absolutely PROVES it to be true 😂. There are a lot of interesting historical-cultural theories in this part of the world 😅

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Lol reminds me of the grandma in the Cleopatra “documentary”

[@willmosse3684]

@@polyMATHY_Luke 😂 Very similar

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Haha when the black American "historian" said: "My black grandmother told me that Cleopatra was black ..." 😞😞

[@ItalMiser117]

oh yeah. and that trajan considers dacia as his homeland..@@willmosse3684

[@miloshp7399]

Pseudo-history seems common in poor and postcommunistic states. In Serbia, there is a conspiracy theory that we Serbs were always on Balkans and other Slavs originate from Serbs 🤡 Those conspiracy people aren't very precise and can't understand cultural and linguistical shifts in populations. Simply put, they just wanna claim something pretty for their people and that's how they approach history.

[@alnotas]

You stated "It's entirely possible that we could find a huge corpus of things written in a non Greek language that pertains to the Kingdom of Macedonia which could convince us that "oh maybe that pellet tablet was the exception not the rule, we just don't have that much evidence". Well good luck finding that "huge corpus of things". On the contrary the evidence for the opposite, is overwelmingly huge and the last staement of yours is totally false. There are houndreds of thousands of written evidence from the region of Macedonia from the era we are investigating, that are written in ancient Greek and nothing has been discovered that could be a sample of an "uknown language". Your argument looks very much alike the arguments of flat-earthers.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

No, the evidence isn’t the least bit overwhelming; anything written in Attic, which is 99% of it, is it be dismissed. That leaves the Pella tablet and a few names. Very little to go on. It’s enough for *me* to believe it was likely Doric, but it’s hardly sufficient for the claims you would like to assert. I recommend you actually learn Attic, Doric, and Ionic, then actually examine each inscription. The conclusions are as simple as you would like them to be.

[@alnotas]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Dude, I am from Thessaloniki. I've actually been to Pella, to Aiges and the archaelogical museum is at walking distance from my home. Every ancient Macedonian site I have been (and I have been to them all) everywhere is full with scribes I can read and understand.

[@PanayiotisVyras]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Well, this is the evidence we DO have now! Right? The possibility that there MAY be more findings, in the future, doesn't change this for now. Does it? It's like saying: If I get married and have a son and name him Luke and he climbs up the tree and falls... he SHALL break his leg! Oh, my poor son Luke. Not yet seen, but named and leg-broken indeed. You're such a smart and witty guy, how can you fall into the trap of such non-sensical thinking? Καλῶς ἔρρωσο!

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

14:15 That's right 👍 Vergina Sun was a Panhellenic symbol even centuries before Alexander the Great.

[@MasoMate]

but due to ethnic mixing it is also by extension ours. not our fault that slavs came down, we are the same people

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

@@MasoMate Well, I'm a historian, fascinated by the Greek history of Macedonia 🇬🇷. I met a couple of scopjan historians (i call them scopjan on purpose, since they are not Macedonians 🇬🇷) who tried to tell me that Greeks weren't excisted but only Macedonians. So how can you talk about mixing of nations if Greeks weren't excisted. Scopjans have to make up their mind if Greeks excisted or not. If they weren't excisted then Socrates Aristotle and Plato were slavobulgarians 🇲🇰 or albanians?

[@MasoMate]

@@hrvatskiapoksiomen9 first of all you very clearly arent a historian. second they didnt mix with greeks because greeks didnt exist. they mixed with us, Macedonians. now finally are you trying to claim that tito just up and went into Macedonia, went to the doors of everyone and said "you are Macedonian now"? if your government did that to you in real life would you accept it? No lol its simple and plain cut its impossible to actually construct a nationality, and anyway ive got maps by germans and austrians predating back to 1910 that show us as an independent community. dont talk yourself up when you dont have a clue what you talk about

[@MasoMate]

@@hrvatskiapoksiomen9 you dont seem to understand that slavs mixed with Macedonians, you need to for this argument detach your definition that links greece and Macedonia. slavs mixed with us Macedonians. plain and simple you arent a historian or even a smart individual. please go study more my friend because ur racist as

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

@@MasoMate Macedonians 🇬🇷 are Greeks . Thats why they spread their native Greek language. That's why Macedonians 🇬🇷 participated in Olympics That's why Macedonian 🇬🇷 king Philip II established the Hellenic League at Corinth Thats why Alexander and Macedonians 🇬🇷 established the Hellenistic era not Bulgarian era. That's why Rosetta stone was written by Ptolemy Epiphanes in his native Greek language among with Hieroglyphics Amd yes unfortunately for you I'm a historian fascinated by the Greek history of Macedonians🇬🇷

[@melinaouzouni6151]

Luke thank you so much for an other great video!!! As a Greek I got to learn so much and love my language even more through your videos! Also thank you for being so objective and respectful about this topic! Greetings from the district of Macedonia in Greece 😁

[@_juan.joao_]

Thank you for the great video! Regards from Corfu, Greece!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ευχαριστώ!

[@giannismalainos9216]

19:50 I have never heard anyone from Naples Florida or Rome New York , claiming ownership of cultural heritage and ancestry of ancient roman or Greek or medieval Italian historical figures , have maps in their children’s schools teaching them that part of their history and land is stolen and should be reclaimed and using symbols used in original Naples or Rome claiming those as their own . I have never heard people from Naples Florida or Rome new York claim that their ancient and medieval ancestors were the true Romans and Neapolitans who did not speak Italian or Latin or Greek but something else and all we know in history is propaganda.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That is the point I made in the video.

[@giannismalainos9216]

@@polyMATHY_Luke yeah I know , I only made it a bit more clear that this name squabble between the 2 countries is more serious than the actual name as a term

[@eaglemars6123]

Slavic Macedonia was called Vardaska until 1945 when Tito decided that Greek Macedonia could be a future target for soviet partition.

[@Kleftis]

@vasilmirmidonski2740you read a book first, your logo of the vergina star is a ancient star from the Hellenistic pantheon. It’s not even solely Macedonian but a star from al over Greece, athenians used, Spartans used, thebans used it. Why you “Macedonians” use a star that represents the Greek gods.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Kleftis MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES from KING FILIP . enjoy ! !

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 MACEDONIANS ARE GREEKS 🇬🇷

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα GREEKS ARE GREEKS.

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@ MACEDONIANS ARE GREEKS 🇬🇷

[@sideriskiratsoudis2641]

The Macedonian dialect is a regional variant of ancient Greek, evidenced by the etymology of terms like "Macedonia" (from Greek "Μακεδνός," meaning "tall" or "highlander") and "Alexander" (from Greek "ἀλέξω," meaning "to defend," and "ἀνήρ," meaning "man"). Inscriptions and texts from ancient Macedonia are predominantly in Greek, and classical sources like Herodotus and Thucydides identify Macedonians as Greeks with unique traits. Thus, the scholarly consensus based on linguistic and historical evidence is that the Macedonian dialect is a form of Greek.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

MACEDONIANS SPEAK MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE. your dialect ? nj nj.

[@kcc7966]

Macedonian is a contemporary modern language even recognized by Greece in the 1970's and by the Florina court a year ago.

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 YOU ARE BULGARIAN 🇧🇬

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα I AM TATJANA MACEDONIAN. VERY NICE ! !

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@ I AM MACEDONIAN 🇬🇷

[@Artemvaro]

Maybe if Croatia started saying we're the real "romans" and renamed Croatia Rome?? Or any other country surrounding Italy? Would u feel the same?? And then saying their languange is the real Latin and took the flag on your wall and made it their new country's flag!

[@stergiosvet]

Setting historic things straight is complaining?! Wow. Slavs came 500 years later in the region. Pretty pathetic. 🇬🇷

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

It’s important to note that the "Vergina Sun" or the 16 rayed Sunburst has been used by all the regions of the Hellenic World since Antiquity. There were also 8 & 12 Point Starbursts as well. This symbol continued to be used in "Byzantine" iconography, especially in images of the Virgin Mary where it became known as the AEIPARTHENOS !!!! 👍🏻

[@VSLS06]

Did the vergina sun was used by pontic greeks?

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@VSLS06 Hi troll, I’ve seen you in multiple comments spreading your Propaganda! But the answer is YES, they ALSO DID. But that wouldn’t matter regardless because the Macedonians were ALWAYS BY FAR the Christian Plurality in Greek Macedonia! 👇🏻 The Greeks were ALSO a plurality in the Vilayets of Thessaloniki & Monasteri [Ancient Herakleia Lynkestis] in all the ottoman Census after the turko-islamic populations. As a matter of Fact, in these Historic Macedonian Regions the ottoman Census done by Hilmi Pasha states that there were: 634,510 Greeks 🇬🇷 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] 355,729 Bulgars 🇧🇬 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] No ethnic "Macedonians" were EVER mentioned in any of those Censuses conducted! Those 634,510 Greeks, which were there before any Population exchanges are the ACTUAL Remnants of the Ancient Macedonians & that Legacy belongs to THEM. Cope & Cry you self-hating bulgarian burglar!!!! 🤡

[@supermavro6072]

@@VSLS06 they used the star and cresent like the turks

[@mydogsbutler]

@@VSLS06 You do realize that Pontic Greeks speak Greek because of ancient Macedonian conquest of the region right?

[@mydogsbutler]

@@VSLS06 You can't just invent history based on specualtio. The conquest of the Pontius region was by Macedonians not Athenians nor Spartans. Ancient Macedonians spread Greek language and culture. That's why it's called the HELLENISITIC period not the Slavistic period. Which begs the questrion... if the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians in Skopje now claim to be founders of the Hellenistic period... why pray tell would they be antihellenic? They are like Hamas claiming to be the "real' jews. Its blatantly obvious they are about as "Macedonians" as they are "Athenians". It's a giant lie.

[@ΜάνοςΑπέργης]

It was Doric and it was the same with Laconian as we know and as evidence there is no other language thay is righten in the area

[@palavpalavets5911]

North Macedonia national heroes were all Bulgarian by their own words, yet in that country they claim these people were all mistaken of their own ethnicity and language. The language of the country is Bulgarian peasant dialect. Bulgarians say (north) Macedonians are the hysterical part of the Bulgarian people.

[@Mkmkmksh]

You won’t do anything abt it other then cry in comments, while ur women are running to Macedonian men

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

M A C E D O N I A N S --- MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE ! ! !

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 MACEDONIA 🇬🇷

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 MACEDONIA 🇬🇷

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα MAKEDONIJA NAME 30 CENTURIES ! !

[@mertzanakia]

I am glad you have finally experienced a 100% certified Balkan moment, Luke!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I have very much appreciated the thoughtful comments form both sides.

[@Billswiftgti]

The problem here is that Phillip and Alexander essentially kickstarted Hellenistic Age. That is why we are called Hellenes. Without these guys we would be Achaioi, Ionians(Yunan), Aeolians etc. Hellas is the ideal for us, not just a state. It is the ideal of everyone acting civil, not just ethnic Greeks, but everyone. Science flourish, music and literature calms the soul, medicine saves lives. This is our ideal and this is what Hellas means to me. Not just this modern mediocre (at best) state.

[@Diogenesceramicjar]

Exactly. To us Greeks (Hellenes), Alexander united our common language and ethnicity into a single nation during a time when each city state was warring with each other. This is why he is so Great to us.

[@Filonikis]

​@@DiogenesceramicjarHowever, we were calling ourselves Hellenes long before Alexander the Great.

[@turky6834]

@@Diogenesceramicjarhow did he unite the ethnicity. Did he kill all the non greeks?

[@Diogenesceramicjar]

@@turky6834 he united the city states of Hellas except Sparta and created a common language Koine Greek. Greeks have killed Greeks all throughout history, you ever heard of the Peloponnesian war? Or more recently the Greek civil war? This is not a strong argument, Alexander killed Greeks therefore he is not Greek. Cope

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@turky6834🤡🦃🤡

[@ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣΛΥΚΑΣ-θ5σ]

Φίλε μου αν βρεθείς με έναν κάτοικο των Σκοπίων δείξε του μια αρχαία μακεδονική επιγραφή , που έχει πολλές στον τόπο του , μια και πράγματι ήταν κομμάτι της αρχαίας Μακεδονίας. Δεν θα μπορέσει να σου τη διαβάσει. Μην έχεις απαίτηση να τη μεταφράσει. Ούτε καν να τη διαβάσει δε μπορεί γιατί έχει μάθει σλαβικό αλφάβητο. Εγώ που είμαι Έλληνας από τη Θεσσαλία άνετα τη διαβάζω και εν μέρη τη μεταφράζω. Το αλφάβητο παραμένει ίδιο στους αιώνες. Οι έννοιες των λέξεων μπορεί να άλλαξαν , όπως σε όλες τις σύγχρονες ζωντανές γλώσσες που ομιλουνται και εξελίσσονται.

[@BN.ja05]

Imagine a whole nation trying to appropiate your country's entire culture, history and notable peoples, whilst disregarding their ancestors, whomst are not even native to the region as their migration has been documented by several historical sources 💀💀💀

[@avidfather1864]

Greek culture has probably been the most appropriated in all of history. At a certain point, you just kinda need to roll your eyes and say "whatever".

[@kilitziro]

Ancient Greek wasn't just the attic language. ALL the historical evidence that has been found shows that at the kingdom of Macedonia where speaking a doric dialect which was spoken in its diversities through out all over central and northern today's Greece. Don't forget that Alexander's teacher was Aristotle. And that the Macedonians where alowed to compete at the Olympics, which as you probably know, only Greeks were participating.

[@MasoMate]

we werent originally allowed to participate in the Olympics. so we throw that point out the window, secondly cyrllic was actually made by two Macedonians from Solun * the correct name * or what greeks call it "Thessaloniki". google is a thing brother. till you use that i would suggest staying out of these things thanks!

[@MacedonGreek-lf9sy]

@@MasoMate nah you are not ..,the originals Macedonians spoken Greeks and they participated to Olympic Games 🇬🇷😘not Slavs 🤣🇲🇰

[@MacedonGreek-lf9sy]

@@MasoMate and what is solun? We don’t understand your Slavic dialect sorry ..Macedonians spoken Greeks

[@MasoMate]

@@MacedonGreek-lf9sy ye they did, and then they made Cyrillic, you don’t speak the language of Macedonia. We do

[@MacedonGreek-lf9sy]

@@MasoMate not exist 2 different languages because only one Macedonia exist it’s a propaganda from Skopje…🤷‍♂️🤣

[@georgios_5342]

19:45 ok you completely lost me here. How are they "paying homage" by appropriating ancient Greek figures and renaming them to Slavic? And then talking about how Greece "genocided" (!!!) The "Macedonian Slavs" of "Aegean Macedonia"? That's not exactly homage. They're twisting the historical figures to fit into their narrative. And no, we shouldn't respect pseudo-history over the real deal. I can't consider a people "Macedonian" just because he lives in the land that was once ruled by Macedonians. Otherwise Pakistanis are also Macedonian! Also, if I go to America, do I suddenly become a native American? No, I am a Greek in America. The Skopians conquered the land that was once a part of Macedonia, but they have no connection to the history of this place as a people. If they so much adore Macedonia, they should joi Greece 😂

[@ginatz75]

Same as Turks thinking they are Hittites or Trojans 😂

[@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER]

@@ginatz75 why would the turks think that? They were the global hegemon during the height of the ottoman empire. They have no need for that considering their history.

[@ginatz75]

@@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER I have seen some claim it in social Media 😂

[@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER]

@@ginatz75 they are a minority.

[@kcc7966]

so discriminatory. unbelievable.

[@GlobalSpaceInvestigation]

Slavo Bulgarian logic in North Macedonia: - What was Macedonia ? - An ancient Greek kingdom in northen Greece - How alexander the great identified himself? - Greek Macedonian - What language did he spoke ? - Greek Macedonian - Where his name originate from ? - Greece 🇬🇷 - What religion Macedonians had ? - Ancient Greek SO WHAT IS ALEXANDER? - A SLAV!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

ALEXANDER THE GREAT IS MACEDONIAN. VERY NICE ! ! !

[@GlobalSpaceInvestigation]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 and you are yugoslavian ?

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@GlobalSpaceInvestigation I AM MACEDONIAN ! ! fly ~ ~ fly.

[@GlobalSpaceInvestigation]

@tatjanavelkova5814 yeas I know and you are slav from Bulgaria, and you stole Greeks region name in order to be country. I love the Greek macedonian statue in your country furthermore I love how you have the great greek king statue also to remind you that you are Bulgarian thiefs

[@GlobalSpaceInvestigation]

​@@tatjanavelkova5814 🎉🥳 Bulgarians identified as Greeks Macedonians. I like the woke culture of vardaska banovina

[@liongold3449]

Actually the real name of FYROM is Vardaska. Secondly, if Hellas wanted to take by force the only part of FYROM that belonged to the ancient kingdom, that is the region of Monastery we could have done it when Milosevic was vice president of Serbia. In Prespes FYROM changed its name and most importantly, Skopians agreed and signed that they have no relationship with the ancient kingdom of Makedonia.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

You mean , We don't have relation with Archaeological Site Pella which is in your jurisdiction but we have stronger fact in Ohrid ! Biger Forthrees which is built in IV BC . And we didnt chage the name but it become stronger . Expresing which macedonian we are . But you can't sleep asking for more ! Your moral is so down asking to change our language what we the macedonian are speaking for 15 centuries ! Oh my God .

[@liongold3449]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 the Name is Οχρίδα or Ohrida. You are skavs nothing more nothing less. You came in Balkans in 7th century ac and your country was a gypsy territory of Yugoslavia. That's what I mean. I suggest you to read history properly.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@liongold3449 Greeks are near to Gupcies ! Olive skinned ! With Greek Haplogroup in majority that nobody have in Europe . Just count these few Slavs from 7 AD century how many times are multiplied with Macedonian aboriginals ? And preserved as macedonian speaking Macedonian not Greek ! You cannot say that all Slavs came . We are macedonian just Slav Enlightened after pagan Helenism collapsed ! Your language and letters of today are preserved because you are out of Europe influence . Can you imagine how many different nations are Slav speakers, even they don't have connection with Old Slavs . Starting of Slavianisation and enlightening with alphabet was in Macedonia ! Calispera !

[@liongold3449]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 can you please show me your historical sources about the claims you make? The colore you claim is just a joke and the stupid example to give. Skopians have nothing to do with ancient Makedonia and that'sa fact.. For starters you can't even explain what the name Makedonia means. So please stop leaving in a dream and wake up. Καλήν Εσπερα.

[@alexandroscomingaftermonke596]

@@liongold3449 No she can't, because she's got NO evidence. ZERO

[@spellplague]

Im Greek and i dont get offended at all that FYROM desperately wants to identify as Macedonias. Im mostly complimented and honored that they want to share this label. They should really start speaking the Greek language and then i will be proud of my North Macedonian brothers

[@kcc7966]

Maybe you can learn Macedonian as it's spoken in Greece by hundreds of thousands of people.

[@aspalathossplit3001]

@@kcc7966 Macedonians 🇬🇷 we are Greeks speaking the Hellenic language of Macedonians 🇬🇷 You are slavoBulgarian 🇲🇰 speaking Bulgarian dialect with slavoBulgarian🇲🇰 names . Why you call Alexander's sister Thessalonike🇬🇷 with the Bulgarian name solun🇲🇰? Autochthonus Macedonians 🇬🇷 we say Thessalonike Invaders slavobulgarians 🇲🇰 why say solun?

[@aspalathossplit3001]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 Macedonians 🇬🇷 we are Macedonians 🇬🇷 speaking our Hellenic language with our Hellenic names Why TurkoBulgarians 🇲🇰 , who speak Bulgarian dialect, with Bulgarian names VELKOV 🇧🇬, talk?

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@aspalathossplit3001 MAKEDONCI GOVORAT MAKEDONSKI JAZIK ! ! .... dialect ?

[@kmoustakas]

The naming issue with "Greece" is you have to remember that greeks don't call themselves greek. Our name is "Hellines" and the country "Hellas". Greeks were a subrace of Hellines that happened to be the first to colonise italy and meet the people that would later became romans met them first so they called us all "greek" incorrectly. We tried to explain to them but they were too dumb for us to care but then they conquered us and it was too late by then. It's exactly the same how Hellines call today "skopjans" lol the romans called Hellines "greeks". "Greek" or "Γραικός" was a man, actually the Hellenic version of Noah and I'm not even kidding. Quite possibly the name is a derivative of "Γηραιός" aka "Wise old man" but we need a lot more proof to prove any of the latter. Maybe Graham Hancock can dig something up

[@strengthodyssey7235]

I am Greek. This video is excellent and unbiased. I am genuinely thankful that you made the effort to create this. It is very informative for non-Balkans and the two "dogs" of this dispute. Regarding the insistence of Greeks on defending the identity of Macedonia as purely Hellenic. It is not only about a possible land grab. It is mostly about making sure that the memory of Alexander the Great as the central figure that brought about the Hellenistic age and the widespread of the Greek Logos and knowledge remains intact. The effects of this monumental historical event can be felt on a global scale to this day. It is natural for Greeks and non-Greeks who have an unconditional love for historical truth to defend the legacy of Alexander the Great against lies, regardless of whether that lie will be used as a geopolitical excuse for the nation-state of North Macedonia to expand on Greek borders. This is not a matter of mere "complaining". Furthermore, considering the region's historical continuity and the Slavic linguistic origins of the "Macedonian" language, a logical question emerges. Since the people of the nation-state of North Macedonia do not have any linguistic connection to the original kingdom of Macedonia, and they barely have any geographical connection, why do they call their language and themselves "Macedonian"? The argument of self-determination is simply not enough. I can identify myself as Napoleon Bonaparte, this does not make it true, nor anyone other than myself is morally obliged to accept this as true. Regardless, I pray for the tensions in the Balkans to be resolved in a manner that brings harmony and peace while respecting the historical truth and dignity of the ethnicities of the region.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

They do it to fake their history and also to legitimize future land grab claims against Greece. Many of these south slavs always envied the Hellenic Legacy & always coveted the Jewel of the Aegean & the: HOUSE OF HELLENISM aka SYMBASILEVOUSA as it was called in Constantinople: THESSALONIKI 💎 The warms waters of the Aegean my friend 👍🏻

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@strengthodyssey7235 Your coment is very nice personal upset ! Sorry , but there is Macedonian Slav ethnicity here in Balcan ! To be ethnicity doesn't mean that you must be ancient !

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 WHEN MACEDONIA RISE SLAVS DIDNT EXIST

[@Ξέρειςαπόβέσπα]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 NEVER EXIST MACEDONIA SLAV …

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA ! ! .... .... .

[@zoips75]

It is known why the people in ancient Macedonia could participate in the Olympics as well as it is known who was Alexander' s teacher. Telling the half of the truth sometimes might create misinformation or sometimes it might be It looks like there is some reason behind it.

[@StergiosMekras]

It's not that we're satisfied with "North Macedonia", it's just that we know that after all those years we can't really get any better. And there's also the fact that if you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually is perceived as true. How long do you think it would take for people to actually believe that Alexander was a Slav if Greece had not complained? This is not an issue with the citizens of North Macedonia, of course, but with the ones that started this myth in hopes of forging a national identity for them. It's not just Greek/Macedonian history they took from anyway, just ask the Bulgarians...

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for the comment. That is a fair point.

[@StergiosMekras]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Just so we are clear, the video was great and as a third party you did pretty impressively. That said, we Balkan people are a ...unique sort. Pay us no mind.

[@lenormand4967]

@@StergiosMekras The place is newly renamed Greece too. The Hellenes didn't come from there. Alexander did not come from that area. When he began, he went from Macedonia/CalEDONIA (northern Scotland) and the diplomats and priests around Perth and macEDONburg, Scotland were among the first he met with. Don't feel bad. Scotaland was renamed Ireland. Persia was renamed Hungary. The "Isle of Syria" was renamed Britain. Aeria was renamed Egypt. Egypt was renamed Wales. The enormous territory of Phares-judah and Zerah-judah was renamed so many other names. It's capitol, an IudoReum, was renamed Rome, Italy/Iuda. That was probably a major cause of wars.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@lenormand4967 The Ancient Sources say you are a lying CLOWN though 🤡🤷🏻‍♂️ 👇🏻 ".. *Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the REST of GREECE* and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. *I have been appointed leader of the GREEKS* and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you .." *-Arrian* *[Anabasis of Alexander 2.14.4]* «.. *οἱ ὑμέτεροι πρόγονοι ἐλθόντες εἰς Μακεδονίαν καὶ εἰς τὴν ἄλλην Ἑλλάδα* κακῶς ἐποίησαν ἡμᾶς οὐδὲν προηδικημένοι: *ἐγὼ δὲ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἡγεμὼν κατασταθεὶς* καὶ τιμωρήσασθαι βουλόμενος Πέρσας διέβην ἐς τὴν Ἀσίαν, ὑπαρξάντων ὑμῶν ..» *-Ἀρριανός* *[Ἀλεξάνδρου Ἀνάβασις 2.14.4]* Nice Try! Buy Pampers!!! 👍🏻

[@rossfun9840]

This is why the Greeks are here to remind eternaly to the world the true identity of the ethnic ex-bulgarian and albanian citizens of North "macedonia" , thats why they are hating us , because we uncovered their state mythology and made it known worldwide so the Bulgarians can always rightfully claim them

[@stelios.t3559]

I am Greek and I am pretty much ok with this video. Yes sometimes Greece might have passed like a spoilt child that made a fuss if things didn't go his way, but Greek people have a HUGE connection with History. Especially ancient history. Almost everywhere you walk in Greece there is something reminding you of ancient times. You go to the Subway and you see ancient artifacts found at every station, you go to the beach and possibly see more ruins from ancient times. So history is basically in our veins. As a result ANYTHING that we disagree with about history we take it very personally. I can accept that in the entire region of whichever modern country we are referring to (Greece, FYROM, Bulgaria) there are connections with Ancient Macedonia due to the land covered. People living on this land can even be direct descendants of ancient Macedonians. Not only in Greece, not only in FYROM, not only in Bulgaria. BUT none of these countries should have an EXCLUSIVITY to the name of a country being called Macedonia. It's just not logical as Macedonia covers more than one countries area. There can be a region, there can be a town, but a whole country is stretching it. Also it would be fine if people from FYROM would finally drop the whole "Macedonian language" thing as it is completely false to link a Slavic Dialect they are speaking with any dialect or language spoken in ancient Macedonia (which as mentioned in the video was probably a Greek dialect). The problem is that even after the Prespes agreement nothing really changed. North Macedonians still call themselves Macedonian and still insist Alexander was exclusivity their ancestor...of course the same applies for us Greeks. We definitely don't accept ancient Macedonians not being a Hellenic kingdom and certainly will not accept another country trying to change known facts.