Going Over Tyrion II, A Game of Thrones

[@ZedWhyExW]

GoingOverAGameOfThrones Heads we're eating well tonight

[@pulloutchamp3219]

Let's go!!

[@elbubson5600]

I've been sick in bed with constant migraines for a week and went through every video to this point. And now this!

[@MrPhbahia]

Do the whole series PJ, it’s like rereading with you gives a whole fresh new perspective :)

[@AnaatthiGozo]

I think Jon and Tyrion are allowed to bond here regardless of what happens in the future, because right this moment both of them feel like slighted bastards in their own homes, and even if Jon rises above that later it doesn't invalidate his and Tyrion's feelings right now.

[@richardtabor8686]

Nice!! Starting to pump these out! I appreciate the context of where GRRM was in his personal timeline with most of these episodes. It adds...I dunno...something...ty for the content.

[@jj947]

It’s like plot archeology. Finding threads that were supposed to set up something that was later changed

[@limbus66]

With Tyrion talking about burning his father and sister and asking Jon if he has the same dreams, I think he was saying deliberately emotive things to try to wring some response out of Jon and get a sense of Jon's position relative to the Starks, what kind of people they are based on how they treated him, etc. It directly follows a little discussion of how Tyrion's mind is his weapon, then he was commenting on how Jon's face gives nothing away, and then he starts asking these questions, these things seem to all follow each other.

[@umwha]

36:00 Tyrion was obsessed with dragons, lit fires and imagined burning his family.. This is George setting up Tyrion Targaryen. Undeniable.

[@Mj_Jetson]

"The oldest was more than *three thousand* years old" I guess the Targaryens brought dragon skulls with them from Valyria?

[@zaja2418]

Don't forget Tyrion saying it was the singers, not the Targaryens, who gave Balerion, Meraxes, and Vhagar their names.

[@JayneTheory]

15:29 No, he meant what he said. Rude shelters are shelters roughly or hastily constructed.

[@neongod3547]

Those shelters were downright uncouth yo!!

[@umwha]

If Tyrion is a Targaryen then that makes him Jons Uncle. This gives a double meaning to all the times Tyrion comments that Jon is traveling with his uncle to the wall (its him). Further, when Tyrion comments that his 'repulsive nephew' will be king, its funny because that actually fortells Jon.

[@Getwright-]

YOREN THE GOAT! haha I love the way George hides Yoren in the background of so many important scenes in the first book. Up until he saves Aria and you realize he’s one of the few people in Westeros who realizes most of the big picture

[@mansionman777]

He works for Varys

[@vitormattos5368]

Tyrion can live in Casterly Rock and travel to KL whenever there's a tourney

[@razzvro]

im here for the grumpkin vs grumkin analysis

[@charliekilpatrick]

Rude is an archaic word meaning "roughly made." George meant rude.

[@magister343]

"Rude" can mean "crude." That was in fact its primary meaning, back when "crude" primarily meant "uncooked."

[@mrloadinggame]

"Crudo" still means uncooked in spanish

[@jgr7487]

I do think that the way Jon sees bastards was learned from the way he was treated by Cat & her court. The difference between his imagined Night's Watch and the real thing kinda points to that.

[@masonduke5647]

May be a reference to Baudrillard: "the map is not the territory"

[@glencullinanan505]

In regards to the shelters, George definitely meant "rude" not "crude". It's an older use of the word which fits the context of the scene.

[@orangecoloredsky3486]

Tyrion examining the dragon skulls is probably akin to a young George standing in the Smithsonian and seeing the T-Rex bones. That's how I felt about dinosaurs.

[@Mj_Jetson]

_Did_ Tyrion live in KL? There's maybe some early worldbuilding that isn't quite decided about where each character was before AGoT, but I kinda got the impression that in peacetime and summertime, people could travel around without large slow escorts or getting bogged down in the mud or snow - characters could and did move around MUCH more than they do in AFfC or ADwD. Ned saw Tommen sometime roughly 5-7 years before AGoT: _The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman's teat the last time I saw him_ (Catelyn I AGoT); Cat saw Sweetrobin 5-6 years before AGoT: _he had been less than a year old the last time Catelyn had seen him_ (Catelyn VI AGoT) Sometime pre-AGoT, Tywin was in KL and got his dinner stolen 🐈‍⬛ _One time, the king was feasting the queen's father, and that back bstard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin's fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst_ (Arya III AGoT) Cersei & kids mayyybe travelled to Casterly Rock very recently: _Pycelle said. "She and the children were making the journey to Casterly Rock, in company with her father. Lord Tywin had brought a retinue to the city for the tourney on Prince Joffrey's name day, no doubt hoping to see his son Jaime win the champion's crown. In that he was sadly disappointed. It fell to me to send the queen word of Lord Arryn's sudden death_ (Eddard V AGoT) but later contradicts himself _The queen needed Lord Arryn dead, she did not say so, could not, Varys was listening, always listening, but when I looked at her I knew_ (Tyrion VI ACoK) But then Tywin also acts like he doesn't really know Joffrey, like he'd barely met him before ASoS: _You gave me to understand the boy cared nothing for his father_ (Tyrion VI ASoS) Maybe Tyrion usually lives at Casterly Rock, came to KL with Tywin for Joffrey's nameday tourney, and decided to accompany the court north. Maybe Tyrion moved around every couple of months, whenever there's a tourney or something. Maybe GRRM is/was undecided. 🤷‍♀ In this respect, I think Daenerys is the most frustratingly ambiguous main character? What was her life like post-red door and pre-Illyrio? Was she the honored guest of triarchs and merchant princes, or did she "seldom had enough coin to buy" sweets at the bazaar?

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

Tyrion was in KL, Jaime mentions to Blackwood that Tyrion used to read the books in the Red Keep which means timeline wise he could only have been talking about pre-AGOT.

[@limbus66]

@@CheeseCrumbs00 Tyrion read the books in Winterfell too, doesn't mean he lives there

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

@@limbus66 Betting on tourneys with LF and Renly?

[@MrParedex]

Tourneys are precisely one of the reasons why you would travel from Casterly Rock to KL. I don't see it as proof of living in KL ​@@CheeseCrumbs00

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

@@MrParedex its a long way... travelling everytime? I do agree it is ambiguous however

[@wademarshall2364]

Love this series. So glad you are back on the grind with it

[@Mj_Jetson]

Why did GRRM choose, of all bits of lore to invent and put into the story here, to have dragonbone contain iron??? Was GRRM trying to science this stuff, to explain how the bones in the dragon wings were strong enough to fly? Was it important to him that the dragonbone be an onyx color, to have some aesthetic connection to dragonglass/glass-candles? (Putting a science cap on, I'm pretty sure an iron compound should make it rusty red, but what do I know) Is there a thematic element to making the dragons made from iron? Was he planning to reveal that Valyrian steel is made using dragonbone? Was he planning to make dragonbone an anti-Other weapon - what Sam's reading calls "dragonsteel" in AFfC?

[@gokbay3057]

Dragonbone being an ingrediant of Valyrian Steel is an interesting idea.

[@theblahtaco]

27:40 Kind of an odd detail that "The Singers" were the ones to name the three OG Targaryen dragons. It seems to imply that these are names they were given over the years to laud them by (Valyrian God worshipping?) historians and bards. Like Aegon called his dragon Jeremy or something but it was deemed too uncool for the history books.

[@theletterm5425]

I thought the same and came looking for this comment. Probably just one of those weird things from this being an early chapter. If we're being *really* generous I guess we could say that the singers were how most people learned about the names. But yeah, it does seem to imply like these were not their actual names that Aegon and his sisters had given them, which is definitely false in the current continuity. Or if we wanna go full Preston we could say that "the singers" actually refers to the Children of the Forest and that they telepathically tricked Westeros into believing these were the dragons names in order to conceal their *true* names for… reasons.

[@zaja2418]

@@theletterm5425 Yeah, that bit was later retconned. Like the part that claims Meraxes was bigger than Vhagar... except we know that Vhagar was almost the size of Balerion by the time she died, while Meraxes died at most ten years after the Conquest, and Balerion was significantly bigger than her even then. *According to Tyrion:* Balerion (Conquest) > Meraxes (Conquest) > Vhagar (Dance). *According to Fire & Blood:* Balerion (Conquest) ~ Vhagar (Dance) > Meraxes.

[@mowen9790]

best vids on the channel besides the theories of course

[@malechlion1636]

I've just started reading the books and I'm like a chapter ahead (I think)...so this thing you're doing each chapter one by one is really really wonderful I'm enjoying them thank you🙏🏻

[@Paws100]

26:10 "he had not thought to find them beautiful" made me laugh after you were just saying about him being hard for Vaegar.

[@seth410]

Honor is not bull. It’s a horse.

[@jaysemitchells497]

honor is dead...

[@ludovicus-Wyndham]

@@jaysemitchells497 Speak for yourself

[@jaysemitchells497]

@ludovicus-Wyndham I'll see what I can dk

[@howmany6824]

we are so back !

[@garethwilliams2483]

I kind of hope that Tyrion claiming to know all about dragons leads to one of the dragons being injured or killed

[@paulcato3434]

Rude can mean crude. Rude splendor, etc.

[@dylanwagstaff2505]

You've been pumping these out and I'm all here for it keep it up PJ

[@jswagaudio]

I saw this posted and yelled “oh f*ck yeah baby!!”

[@CosmicCorviknight]

Do we know when the Targaryens began decorating the throne room with dragon skulls? Initially the dragons almost never died (just Meraxes, Quicksilver and Balerion) so there weren't many skulls to display, then the Dance happens and they're almost all dead with the survivors dead shortly after. Aegon III hated dragons so presumably a later king had a taste for macabre decor and started the skull display?

[@jessielefey]

I get it tho. They're boys, who were trauma bonding. Tyrion went too far, got backhanded for it. Tyrion acknowledges that he had that coming, like the tsundere teenager they both are, by taking the L, and the self-mocking rif of Jon's burn is acknowledged by both as the apology it's meant as. Jon laughing too is edgelord teen boy for "okay I forgive you" because while Jon's not exactly full edgelord like Tyrion, he does know how to speak it. Water under the bridge, boundaries asserted and acknowledged, no grudge held or required.

[@smitty1647]

how jon treats tyrion here is worse than how aegon treats tyrion when he knocks over the cyvasse board

[@SaudiHaramco]

I think the whole thing with Jon and being a bastard is about his belief and his perceptions being challenged by the experiences he makes. Jon sees himself in relation to Robb as someone who is underprivileged due to his birth. He never compares himself to peasants. Only when he joins the Nights Watch he is suddenly confronted with the reality that he is infact privileged due to his birth. He only really finds a society where your parentage doesn't really matter when he lives with the Free Folk. So from then on he has to come to terms with whether he actually wants to be a member of an egalitarian and meritocratic society or whether he really wants to be a member of the privileged upper class. This will be especially pronounced once it's revealed that he's a potential heir to both Winterfell as well as the Iron Throne.

[@jxun4l3ht10]

And we are back

[@lastEvergreen]

What happened to the rest of the skeleton? Has to be worth some money all that dragonbone.

[@MC-el2us]

Especially in the paragraph before says hg how GREAT it was 👀

[@DoakFelix-qr8uw]

Thank you for your time, your effort, and your thoughts. I always appreciate you sharing these with us. A couple of selected definitions from the Miriam Webster, online, dictionary are: 1. a. being in a rough or unfinished state: crude b. natural, raw c. primitive or undeveloped 2. lacking refinement, or delicacy 5. occurring abruptly or disconcertingly

[@nobodycareswhatithink]

This is such a great way to re-read the books. Do the whole series please.

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

Regarding military prestige, the most joked about branches, the Navy and Coast Guard, are probably the branches that have done the nost to preserve freedom and international trade

[@michaelbutler7668]

Bobono is a dwarf that’s doing well!!

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

Fair enough

[@thepunisher6674]

Weren’t the rapers from the fingers two of mutineers from Chet’s plot?

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

Not that I know of. Do you mean Lark and his cousins from the Sisters?

[@thepunisher6674]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Yes but who knows characters get lost along the way in these books all the time

[@iamsheel]

Never came here so fast before

[@axocuddl]

My pasta salad just got ready to eat, now I see this, perfect 😁

[@lunacyosrs8459]

What happens first..? Preston goes over the whole book series or winds of winter is released?

[@jaysheth1541]

Chett.... Prologue of Book 3 was that rapper?

[@Doctor_Sex_Ass]

Chett was in the Night's Watch for around 4 years at the point of his chapter.

[@TeresaBittenbender]

Wait, how did they end up with the skull of Meraxes? As far as I can remember, it's not even recorded that they got the remains of Rhaenys back, much less her dragon.

[@TeresaBittenbender]

UGH, now I have a million questions. Was the return of their remains part of Aegon's peace deal with Dorne? Was Tyrion misinformed about the identity of the dragon skulls? The in-world author of Fire and Blood was supposed to be contemporary to the main story, so he should have known if Meraxes' skull was in the Red Keep at the time, but gives no information in the tome about if, when, or how it would have gotten there.

[@Mj_Jetson]

I think the Martells returned Meraxes skull in 13AC, as part of peace negotiations to end the first Dornish War? The scene where Aegon reads that mysterious letter from Dorne. My question is how did they retrieve Vaghar's skull... F&B says that when the dragon hit the lake, she sent "up a gout of water that was said to have been as tall as Kingspyre Tower" so the dragon's gotta be basically embedded in the mud at the bottom of the lake, right? Then about Vaghar's skeleton, F&B says frustratingly vaguely "when she was found some years later" So does that mean mysterious Gods' Eye magic spit out the dragon or whatever?

[@TeresaBittenbender]

@@Mj_Jetson If I remember correctly, they intentionally dredged the lake for Vaghar/ Aemond's remains

[@TeresaBittenbender]

And now that I've had some time to stew on it, I really like the idea that the remains of both Rheanys and Meraxes were returned in the pact with Dorne made by Daeron II, which would explain why Meraxes' skull is there in present day, but hasn't yet come up in the narrative.

[@jaysheth1541]

May be Direwolves sense strong dragon blood hint... Old gods' creatures feeling the blood of dragon i.e. fires made flesh, in Tyrion... + Remember, George wanted Jon vs. Tyrion for Arya's love??? So George was setting up their friendship to turn it around for strong emotional impact on readers. Direwolves knowing Tyrion's future possibilities against House Stark of Old gods. Maybe in earlier drafts, Tyrion was the giant that Winterfell defeated?

[@braedanmckee5063]

jon does dream of benjen dead - its in his next couple chapters i forget. I just re-read the books. Its almost like Tyrion says Jon has the dreams, then Jon has them (its after Benjen refuses Jon to come with him).

[@PolicyofIllusion]

I don't know if I agree with the interpretation that "the Others are a real enemy, therefore there's a two-sided element to it". That would seem to dilute the messaging, to me. The Others aren't the enemy anyone is actually intending to fight, and we're seeing the Watch get its ass kicked by it in the contemporary story - they're there, in practice, to gatekeep the Wildlings, who they hate because they're in conflict with them because they hate them because they're in conflict with them. The actual enemy being actually fought for most of recent history (other human beings in a worse situation than them) is what's wasting everyone's energy, and it serves both to make the richer south feel good about itself for shipping people off to deal with a "problem", and to highlight how little the south actually cares about the genuine threat soon represented by the Others (call it a metaphor for climate change, or what-have-you), which ALSO only affects the North so far, as far as they can see it, hence not being taken seriously. Everyone of power has stopped giving a shit about the problems affecting the dumb distant poors because it doesn't affect them personally, leading to no one working to address the problem until (based on the show's overall plotline) it's too late.

[@ludovicus-Wyndham]

Does Sweetsleep actually think that Stannis Baratheon doesn’t have a rare sense of humour?! He’s portrayed as iron due to being completely ironic. FFS, you’re definitely wrong about half of everything. Edit: Who isn’t?

[@leftofyou]

Pretty easy to "go over" Tyrion, on account of how short he is...

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

I really love that chapter ❤❤😊😊

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@theletterm5425]

JP FOMOS BACK IS

[@notthis9586]

PREACH!

[@joshhoffman5233]

Preston imperator

[@ZYXPQI]

Tyrion and Jon were cute

[@MC-el2us]

Gr’um Kin 👀

[@umwha]

14:58 'The Lannisters are more logical and self-serving... Because honour is a bunch of bull' That is absolutely not what George is saying. The levels of projection are off the charts.

[@iamsheel]

You must be new here. You haven't seen the worst part of it.

[@tychoclavius4818]

Projection?

[@quicango]

First?

[@tychoclavius4818]

Great job!

[@julioulloa5403]

9:13 dareon?