Going Over Catelyn IV, A Game of Thrones

[@jj947]

I can’t wait to listen to Preston analyze Kevan’s epilogue with my grandchildren

[@DK-ru9dt]

And yet Winds might not be out

[@scruffyrodriguez7698]

Going over Dance before Winds of Winter

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

honestly I can't wait till he gets to feast and dance, theres so much more to say on Jaime and Tyrion ect.

[@santsi7306]

Can't wait to listen with my adult grandchildren ŵho geek out on this stuff the way my parents did LOTR

[@TortssMacKenzie]

G.R.R.M.3000 might almost be done with Blood and Fire by then before he rounds back to finish up Winds.

[@jordanalexander6935]

Good to see you Preston

[@wyomingptt]

Preston is great at making really interesting observations and nice catches as well complete non-sense, self insert takes and he's so confident about both lol.

[@hi_austin]

And we are back

[@Longshanks1690]

I would dispute the Thomas Cromwell connection because Cromwell was an unfailingly loyal servant to Henry VIII, who did everything in his power to serve his monarch faithfully, which is the exact opposite of who Littlefinger is. The Cromwell parallels end with them being self made imo. I would say Littlefinger is more analogous to someone like Talleyrand, a political opportunist who knew which way the wind was blowing on any day and how to attach himself to the winning party so he never had to pick a concrete stance on any of those factions. But even this has its problems because I think Talleyrand had more principles than Littlefinger and Talleyrand was more of Pycelle’s show philosophy of “I just want to be in the garden,” whereas LF very much wants to be the tallest flower. Honestly, Iago from Othello might be who George drew the most inspiration from over anyone in history.

[@nyuzotturunk]

Okey, here is my interpretation of the dagger affair: 1. First of all, I don’t think Littlefinger is behind the catspaw. He wanted to blacken the Lannisters with Lysa’s letter. He can’t predict Bran’s fall, and even if he became aware of it, he don’t have to organize a risky murder attempt from half a continent away to reach his goal. He is improvising… and he is lucky of course, but maybe not to an incredible extent. (See it below.) 2. One more clause: I think Tyrion is just a frequent guest in the court, and not a permanent resident of King’s Landing. On one hand, Cersei doesn’t like him; on the other hand, he has a job at Casterly Rock (the supervisor of cisterns and drains). And in A Clash of Kings, he doesn't behave in the court as if he usually belongs there; doesn’t even have a room of his own. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think he even notes that the atmosphere of the city is different from his previous visits. So, back tot he dagger! 3. Varys learns about Catelyn and the dagger from the conversation between Ser Cassel and Ser Santagar. It makes the most sense, as the ship’s captain couldn’t know about the dagger. Although Moreo could be the source of the inn where Cat stayed. 4. Why did Varys took the news to Littlefinger? He might have brought Cat into the castle just the same, and could have talked to her face to face, alone. He could only wanted to involve Littlefinger in that discussion for one of two reasons: if he hoped to get some information or leverage that way. So my guess is that Varys recognized the dagger, as Petyr’s property. If that happend, it’s a prity good plan from him to bring this meeting together between the three of them. If Petyr denies owning the dagger, he can expose him. If he admits it, he makes himself suspicious in the crime Cat probeing about (whatever it is). Both way driving a wedge between Peytr and the Starks, who just became a new players in the game of thrones. 5. This of course assumes that the dagger was actually Petyr's and that it came to Robert’s possession from him when Petyr bet on Jamie. But it had to be his. Not just because Varys organized this meeting, but because otherwise Petyr couldn't have lied about who the dagger belonged to. Otherwise the chance of failure is way too high, espceially in front of Varys. And of course it would be very typical of Robert to bet against Jaime in the tourney. I'm not sure, but I think in a Cersei or Jaime chapter she/he did recall Robert bragging about winning something by betting against Jaime. 6. Petyr recognized the dagger and Varys’ little trap. He could reveal that Robert won the dagger from him, but that could be dangerous in two ways. On one way, the dagger was clearly an instrument of some crime. Claiming that it’s the king’s dagger is almost like accusing the king with the crime - in front of the Master of Whispers. On the other way, Robert and Eddard are close friends. Cat might not even believe that the dagger could have belonged to the king. 7. So Petyr have the engenius idea, and switch his bating opponent at the tourney. He didn’t lost the dagger to Robert; he lost it to Tyrion. He allready trying to frame Cersei and Jaime with the murder of Jon Arryn via Lysa’s letter. Of course neither of them could possibly bet against Jaime… but Tyrion could. We know Tyrion never bet against his family (at least not yet), but this isn’t have to be a well-known fact, especially because, like I said, I believe Tyrion is just a frequent guest in the court, and not a permanent resident. 8. Later, when Cat is in the Erie, she wonders about that in her letter, Lysa only accused Cersei and Jaime, and started accusing Tyrion only then, in person. This would explain that: when Petyr made her write the latter, he wasn’t thinking about Tyrion. But he was the only Lannister he could accuse rapidly during this conversation. After that, he could write for Lysa to add Tyrion to the list of murderers. 9. What is Varys’ reaction? We don’t know of course, the chapter is ending after the accusation. Varys is probably uncertain if Petyr was honest or not, so he says nothing. Can he find out later who won the dagger? Maybe. But if it wasn’t a loud bet, but a more private one, then it’s a difficult task. The only two person who have to know about it is Petyr and Robert, and they have no reason to talk about it. (Although there is that bragging I mentioned before.) Varys can ask Tyrion of course… but Tyrion is not at court presently. If Catelyn didn’t capture him at the inn, ha would probably have turned west at the crossoards and would have gone home to Casterly Rock. He arrived back to King’s Landing so soon only because of the War of the Five Kings. 10. But I think at the end Varys believes that the dagger is Tyrion’s. When he talking with Illyrio in the secret tunnels, he saying „the fools tried to kill his son” and „the wolf and the lion will soon be at each other's throats”. (At least in the Hungarian version; I confess, I have never read it in the original language.) This makes only sense if he thinks the Lannisters wanted to kill Bran. Littlefinger is not a multitude, so he wouldn’t be foolS… nor one fool even, as he successfully pinned it all on the Lannisters. So this would be my interpretation of the situation. It’s probably not perfect (and maybe I'm wrong about half of these ;) )… but it explains both Varys’ and Littlefinger’s motivations, and don’t require either of them to be a moron or a lucksack. Of course it’s still a huge coincident that the catspaw just happend to use Littlefinger’s dagger… but the choise of weapon will be always the most puzzleing part of this assasination attempt, regardless of who was behind it.

[@emarti3853]

If Catelyn literally had every crew member of the galley on the deck and then gave them all silver coins, someone would have noticed an auburn-haired lady.

[@GodKingReiss]

Sixty silvers going to the rowers of a sixty-oared ship implies that George thinks every single oar has just one man pulling it.

[@wyomingptt]

Are you like an expert of Tyroshi galleys in the narrow sea?

[@GodKingReiss]

@@wyomingptt Fair enough. I guess Tyroshi oarsmen are just built different

[@kyleholmes8230]

You're right, there's no defending that. The oars would be huge and require at least 2 men on a ship that large.

[@memeaficionado]

Damn. Great catch. I could've read this 100 times and not noticed it

[@c0nman753]

Glad to see you back!

[@williamsolomon940]

It's funny hearing Preston mispronounce a word - reminds you that he is still human despite the mega brain. "Quay" is a word everyone here in Sydney knows is pronounced "key", because the city was founded on a place called Circular Quay.

[@stupidminotaur9735]

listening to asoiaf therois and not having to listen to irl stuff is a great distraction.

[@Ahrimanh86]

Dude these in depth analysis vids are excellent.

[@scruffyrodriguez7698]

The return of the King

[@maxwell_j_R]

43:43 Why would Varys need spies at Winterfell for this information about Bran? It was likely just information sent with a raven when informing the small council that Ned accepted the position of Hand. It's also unlikely that an informant in Winterfell about the dagger could have gotten a message to King's Landing faster than Cat's arrival.

[@stefanfilipovits21]

I cannot wait for Preston’s upcoming aeron chapter

[@abbu.robinson]

Genuine question here. Do Americans not pronounce quay as key like we do in the old world, or is this a Preston only phenomenon? I mean its kind of understandable with a less common word to only be familiar with how it's spelt, but you're not the first American I've heard pronounce it like that, and you generally know other words' odd pronunciations

[@CosmicCorviknight]

The absence of a settlement at the Blackwater Rush pre-Targaryens is part of a general issue where Westeros is severely lacking urban centres. Real medieval Europe had a lots of cities which were home to thousands of people and huge numbers of big market towns too, but Westeros seems to be overwhelmingly composed of fortified keeps which small populations gather around or isolated small peasant villages. The Free Cities seem to be the parallel to the urban city states of Italy but even a small country like medieval England seems to have more urban centres than the whole of Westeros

[@durianthesleepy]

So Cat gets her fingers cut by a catspaw, Cat takes the cat's knife, sails the White Knife to White Harbor, sails around The Fingers to go meet Littlefinger at the same time as the new Hand of the King?

[@GodKingReiss]

It’s established that Robert’s entourage is moving southward at a VERY slow pace. Even with their head start, Catelyn outpacing them by taking a swift road to White Harbor and sailing south in mostly decent weather is entirely plausible.

[@santsi7306]

I know right?! It's funny when you put it like that. Impressive.

[@arvaakuka8568]

And the CATspaw, Cat believes, was sent by house Lannister whose sigil is a cat and Joffrey said "send a dog to kill a wolf" and it all happened in Winterfell and lord Fell FELL into icy water on his march to the castle during winter

[@Mj_Jetson]

If Captain Moreo is NOT the informer, then how would the gold cloaks know where Catelyn was staying? Gotta be either Moreo is the informer, or Varys is listening to the armory conversation _and_ he's got an omniscient enough spy network to have followed Cat and Rodrik from the docks to the inn, or have someone at the inn report to Varys about them, despite not prying into their affairs. Since Cat and Rodrik took some pains not to stand out, it seems improbable that some spy on Eel Alley would deem their arrival important enough to drop everything and report to Varys ASAP? So Moreo is the most likely informant. That said, the Eel Alley informant introduces a very intriguing possibility, since this is possibly the inn where Cersei and Jaime slept together, shortly after Jaime was knighted. _If_ Varys has an informant on Eel Alley, and _if_ that spy has been in place for most of Varys' King's Landing career, then Varys could have learned about twincest prior even to Jaime joining the kingsguard. Not that this would really change the story much - either way, Varys finds out ages before AGoT... I guess it could lead to some fun exploration of how Varys manipulated everyone in Aerys' court?

[@julioulloa5403]

This was the charapter i was waiting for!!!

[@santsi7306]

*and things like this- PJ* (We need this on a shirt!)

[@abbu.robinson]

What about "it's tough"

[@Alknix]

One thing I find really hard to believe is that a ruler of a huge realm doesn't have his own navy and both he and his wife have to rely on hired strangers and just hope that a suitable ship would be waiting for them in the harbor.

[@wademarshall2364]

perfect friday present

[@geobee15]

1:02:37 Its Varys who wants to speed things up. He wants to speed things up BECAUSE he has too many things to juggle around. Illyrio wants to slow down. I think your old videos you stated Varys wanted to slow down and that's why he teamed up with Littlefinger (to keep the peace). However given he wants to speed things up, I think he's looking to cause chaos. My guess is that Varys and Littlefinger teamed up because he wants Littlefinger to start causing chaos. He knows Littlefinger is lying about the dagger being his and will start creating a Stark-Lannister feud. Whether Littlefinger actually sent the catspaw, and whether Varys would know about that plan is an unknown. Though it may be George didn't think this through; but given what we know I think this is the best explanation.

[@domi6026]

Rodrik Cassel, a lord, not knowing of Littlefinger, a member of the kings small council, would make very little sense

[@baerververgaert1308]

I thought Narses (advisor to Justinian I) would have been George's inspiration for Varys. Though, in hindsight, George might have mixed elements of Narses in both Littlefinger and Varys

[@Mj_Jetson]

55:00 Pretty certain Tyrion did *NOT* reside in King's Landing pre-AGoT: "The streets of King's Landing had always been teeming and raucous and noisy, but now they reeked of danger in a way that he did not recall from past *visits* " (Tyrion I ACoK) Loads of characters travel to the capital for that tourney: Old Lord Walder: "I went to the city to see my sons ride in the tourney" (Catelyn IX AGoT) Tywin: "Lord Tywin had brought a retinue to the city for the tourney on Prince Joffrey's name day" (Eddard V AGoT) Pycelle says some stuff here that he later contradicts, so he's mayyybe lying about Tywin visiting KL here, but Tywin visits the city at other times, so its not unreasonable: "One time, the king was feasting the queen's father, and that back bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin's fingers." (Arya III AGoT)

[@Longshanks1690]

The use of visits is just an inaccurate wording on George’s part. Tyrion absolutely lived in King’s Landing before AGOT.

[@TheEnecca]

​@@Longshanks1690Is there confirmation for that? I always thought it was to unclear to know for sure.

[@Longshanks1690]

@ No, it’s never directly stated but Tyrion has too many familiarities with people in the KL circle like Cersei’s kids to be someone who only visits during important tourneys. Of course the problem is that he’s also unfamiliar with a whole lot of other people who lived in KL at the same time. 😂

[@Mj_Jetson]

There are passages that could go either way, but I'm pretty sure the weight of the evidence is that he lived at Casterly Rock, and visited KL for tourneys and stuff? Tyrion does not feel bound the the king's company; he departs them to travel to the Wall. He brings wine from the Summer Isles via Casterly Rock (Tyrion II AGoT). His stuff - specifically his custom armor - is at Casterly Rock (Tyrion VIII AGoT). Tyrion also acts as if he isn't super familiar with the king's councilors. When he turned 16, came of age and could've left Casterly Rock, he definitely stuck around for at least a while cleaning drains (Tyrion III ADwD) - not sure how long he spent on that, though. As for acting like he knows Cersei's kids really well... I'm not sure; Tyrion can't have needed very long to form a negative opinion of Joffrey, can it? Especially since they travelled weeks or months together, on the way to Winterfell. Also, rather confusingly, Tyrion acts like he knows Sansa well: "Sansa had always seemed such a sweet child, tender and courteous." (Tyrion I ACoK). Not sure where he got that idea from - he and Sansa can't possibly have spent very much time together at Winterfell.

[@FC-yj1wd]

That line about only the blood of the dragon knowing the Red Keep's secrets - foreshadowing for Varys as secret Targaryen?

[@wyomingptt]

Cause everyone is a secret something or other.... 🙄

[@TheEnecca]

I feel like this insane near death experience of rodrick is really glossed over by the characters and by preston.

[@jswagaudio]

When? He was just seasick

[@TheEnecca]

@jswagaudio didnt he almost fell of the ship and could only hold on to a rope?

[@weedhornjosh]

We and ours shape the world

[@weedhornjosh]

Btw I am single so everyone is my kin to a extend

[@emarti3853]

At some point, GRRM admitted he had to plan out the Targaryen lineage. I assume during book 1 he had something

[@Alknix]

25:50 Ah, yes, because it's not like he would have to announce himself before being admitted to THE ROYAL CASTLE. That's another thing I don't understand - why are they being coy and clandestine? Cat is the wife of the new Hand. It's not like her coming was instantly suspicious - he had business with her husband, end of story.

[@wumbojet]

I think agonizing over a possible grand plan by littlefinger might not be as useful as taking the events surrounding the dagger as him improvising and masterfully taking advantage of everything immediately

[@Mj_Jetson]

Why do Varys and Littlefinger help each other out so much in this scene... aargg, I guess they both know that the other has the power to sabotage them, and this mutually assured destruction keeps them in check? Though they might not be certain precisely what the other wants I don't think they their goals are mutually exclusive (Varys wants Aegon on the throne, and I think LF wants to usurp House Tully as part of a vengeance scheme?) LF does take steps to delay Ned and Cat from telling Robert - "Our good Robert is practiced at closing his eyes to things he would rather not see." (Eddard IV AGoT) - but Varys? aaarg that is much trickier, far more precarious.

[@Kimi42336]

I have to say that i do believe in the "Varys in the Walls" thing. But the notion is just so ridiculous to me(in a funny way). I am unique in thinking this is funny that being a security guard. So is Varys just going on rounds every hour walking though the walls with his ears open and whenever he hears something interesting, he puts his eyes to the hole and then writes it down for later and just continues on his rounds. Are there like desks with paper and quill at every hole so that he can write things he hears down or is he just good at remembering things? Also how does the wall tunnels work? Do they just duck and weave between every single room in the red keep, or are there random doors in random hallways that lead to it and people just don't question them and only he has the keys to those random doors? It is all just very silly.

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

I think I know why George is opssesed with hands. He grew up in a port with longshoremen who all probably can massive calusssed hands. When you meet them and shake their hand, your pencil-pushing fist get swallowed in their massive paws. At least that is my experience with farmers, but I imagine his is similar. Also, maybe he associates calussed hands with some of his family members, so the hand-working common people are more trustworthy than the soft-handed lazy nobles.

[@domi6026]

I may be missing some context, but why is “Moreo Tumitis” and “Storm Dancer” spelled as “Moreo Turnitis” and “Stonn Dancer” on the doc Preston is reading?

[@bastianschrderlarsen6059]

It's probably a scan of the paper book. That can sometimes happen with scans in certain fonts.

[@chemputer]

Are stags silver, or gold? Or both?

[@Hazelcake]

was this written when THWTRD was still in Tyrosh?

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

Probably, George tends to use thing he just thought of, or mentioned previously. Why is Walder Frey a character? He sent the guy from the prologue to the Wall. Why is Mattis Rowan at Bitterbridge? Because Darion mentioned him

[@user-td4do3op2d]

Preston. Quay is pronounced ‘key’ 😂

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@kaylintyler6178]

This is such a tease, I want pj’s thoughts on trumps victory.

[@jj947]

Probably no kind words

[@TheEnecca]

what is there to say even. You either thinks its terrible or you decided to let someone else do the thinking for you.

[@AlexofEdenRazed]

Trumps *total victory, you mean

[@Astromamut]

something something elections

[@markboyd9275]

4 the algorithm 🗡️

[@sirsplintfastthepungent1373]

6:30 morked

[@BittersteelX]

Poxy Jeyne Poore=Shiera Seastar

[@Jcall9]

Make a bluesky account 😢

[@DanJuega]

To learn from history you need to learn history.

[@Whatwhat86]

Preston is in mourning 😢

[@rightwingersexposed8800]

i dunno if he cares all that much in the end he is middle upper class

[@jaimewoodside4427]

Preston, you, like most of society do not know what ‘ nonplussed’ means… it’s not (unimpressed) grow up…

[@thomasbanks641]

Hey how'd that Kamala live stream work out for you lmao

[@santsi7306]

Ball buster lol