Pro-Pilot Playbook Podcast #47 //OMG! Look at American Airline's New Payscale

This episode is a bit of a mix of current events and a listener question. This week's question comes from Zach, whom wants to know the likelyhood of paying back the debt created from flight training if he's not starting this career path till he's 40 years old. Thank you for the great question Zach!
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
01:00 Update
05:08 American Airline's New Contract
06:19 Zach's Question
09:13 New AA Pay
14:31 Technical Answer to Zach's Question
19:04 Aviation Industry Wide Pay
21:17 Airline Hiring Process Changes
23:16 Wrap Up

[@bittnerbs]

I’m 42 and have 1,000hrs. I’m instructing around 25-35 hrs per week. I’ve been able to do everything while working full time and accrued no debt. 0-1500hrs in 38 months approx. 🤞🏽 It’s been worth every second.

[@Flyinghorus381]

Your story inspires people like me

[@deannaw.8457]

Can you elaborate? How many hours/week are you working? How much money did you need to get started? I'm considering a career change but trying to line my ducks in a row before I go for it. 🥴

[@tannerstafford16]

@bittnerbs you’re instructing 30hrs a week while working full time? How do you schedule that? All your students fly afternoon?

[@mkelly2403]

depending on the lifestyle you live, paying back the ATP loan shouldn't take more than 5yrs to pay back. Especially if you work overtime. im seeing regionals start at 92k/yr with second year going to 150K about. pilots have the highest and fastest return on investment for these type of professional careers

[@riod43]

26 at SWA shouldn't be surprising. Delta has 76 captains that are 25 and younger.

[@thatguy7085]

Delta captain kids can make captain quick. It is still nepotism there. Use to be military buddies…

[@buckcampbell4292]

Uh….no. The youngest to be awarded 76 captain was 27. He has not completed trying yet. Will be 28 before he is signed off. Still very young, but not 25 or under.

[@riod43]

@@buckcampbell4292were both wrong. He was 26

[@achmedbincouscous2846]

The 6/13 class at SWA had 40 newhires. 11 of them are under 30. The youngest is 23. Average age 36. Junior Capt in upgrade class currently a little over 6.5 years seniority.

[@latata381]

You guys have to be one of the best and to the point show on the whole internet , I really appreciate the time you take to make videos

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Thank you for the comment. We love helping. I'm glad you enjoyed everything. More to come.

[@PumpUptheJam81]

I am getting a late start at 42. Wrapping up CFI in a few weeks. Really hoping there is still some room left in the majors by the time I am able to apply, as it appears they are stacked for the foreseeable future with the wave of new hires out of the regionals. At any rate, the pay scales are pretty amazing for the time being so I am hoping they hold! For now I just need to worry about passing check rides and studying, but it’s still interesting the analyze the industry pay and subsequent contract changes. Great video!

[@ayoo_itzme]

New student pilot here! Thanks for taking the time out to make your podcast still and helping out the community. You guys definitely helped me out a lot before I considered flight school and glad to see that you’re still uploading. Do you have any advice for school or how would you go about school differently if you had to do it all over again?

[@edwardanderson6048]

I went to high school with this kid who just last month became FO on a 777. He's 27.

[@jonesyisdabest]

I love all the compliments about San Diego and I'm glad you enjoyed your time here! I just got hired last week at a flight school in San Diego and I'm almost at 500TT. Despite the high cost of living its a great place to flight train with the good weather and complicated air space. Thanks for making these videos!

[@alexanderf4508]

Really good podcast. I'm currently a junior in college, I've been researching a career in aviation since high school, I had no idea about how lucrative the bonuses at regionals were. Very informative, thank you!

[@charlesprenaveau4969]

I’m so happy to see this notification!!

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

So happy to see that you're enjoying the channel, more videos to come!

[@DustySnelgrove]

Same here!!

[@NathanHopper]

It’s always an amazing day when you guys release an episode

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Thank you Nathan! What a great comment!

[@aldohattonduran5227]

First 🥇 time seeing your podcast. Excelente excelente 👍🏻 correspondes with everything I've heard about the major airlines. TY

[@AirJohnphy]

Awesome podcast

[@airops423]

Great video. If I didn't already have a good career in tech this something I might strongly consider. The problem is I am 25 years old and make just over $300K now and my work/life balance is already great so I don't see how I can justify this. I ended up buying an airplane and working on my PPL as a hobby now, but corporate aviation in particular has always interested me. Not sure if there are any kind of pathways available that might make sense, to work towards becoming some sort of corporate pilot on a contract basis?

[@IGrocker]

Hey guys, thanks for keeping these videos coming! I found them a couple of months ago and have gone through most of your backlog. My question is in regards to immediate work post-flight school. I am starting my private license in about a week, and then planning on attending ATP to obtain the rest of my ratings. My goal is to fly corporate after ATP. What do you think would be the best route to take to get there? I’ll be 26 is a couple of weeks for what that’s worth. Thanks in advance!

[@sethr371]

Fina a cheaper route ATP is too expensive.

[@michaelw2108]

I love this podcast, just started listening flying the learning part, and I want the perks hotels, travel lifestyle and time off and love my job and love my life, I m sick of dead end no excitement job overworked disappointed and complaining work.

[@mbruce2106]

Great show once again. Could you guys do a show about getting hired for corporate/charter in South America & Central America? I can't find anything about getting hired down there. Thanks.

[@d.c.6942]

Hey guys, another great episode, keep it up! It would be really interesting to see you respond to Aero's comments a bit further down, since he doesn't seem to agree at all that it is easy for new pilots to get into the business. Interesting how much the perception of the exact same situation can differ so much.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Hey D.C. I just replied to all his comments. Sean

[@d.c.6942]

Much appreciated 👍

[@danielh2553]

I have had a hard time finding a way to pay for flight training. There are several flight schools around me but only a couple have finance partners. With one you have to make payments while you’re training ($500-1500 a month), the other is ATP and i’m only 23 so I don’t have a long credit history and didn’t get approved, no one to co-sign for me. It’s tough securing financing for flight school. Paying as-you-go costs about $200-250 per hour. Most people doing that are taking about 65 hours just to get the private pilot, it’s taking them 6-12 months and $12-16k. I don’t have an extra $250 a week let alone 500 or 750 to fly 2 or 3 times a week. I’ll find a way, i’m just a little bitter about it as you might ascertain.

[@lecurymccray5804]

University of Liberty has programs where you can fly and get your degree. It’s supposed to be 2.5 years and they have affiliate flight schools all over the country. I might go that route because you can get a student loan and pay it later. I got a lot of college hours so it may not take that long.

[@justinobambino1199]

Hey guys I’ve always dreamt of flying and now I’ve made my mind on pursuing the industry. I’m 23, so I know I’m definitely not too old but the only problem I can’t seem to solve in my head is that I am moved out, and work full time nearly paycheck to paycheck to afford my apartment and bills. If anyone has any advice on how to pay or what my strategy should be I would definitely appreciate it. I’m really excited to get into this industry as everything aerospace just fascinates me and always has, and I’d hate to look back when I’m older and regret not going for it just because it’s expensive. Appreciate it, and love the videos they’ve helped TONS!

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Thanks for the comment Justin, try to make it work. Don't give up! Even if you just fly a couple times a month and pay-as-you-go at least you're taking action.

[@justinobambino1199]

@@ProPilotPlaybook thank you so much for reaching out a little bit of encouragement means a lot. I’m definitely will to throw all of my time and effort at this, and I have the backing of a family that will also do as much as they can to help. I really appreciate you guys you have helped me really set my foot down and go for it.🙏 shout out from Toledo💪

[@trevorduncan9635]

can you please do a podcast on 'If you fail a color vision test, you can still become a pilot' - and how someone who has color vision deficiency (CVD) doesnt have to give up the dream of flying for the majors.

[@verge5384]

Can you guys point me in the direction of the "EASY DEBT FREE" money for flight training?

[@ednowliniii]

I wish we had something signed at AA. Not yet though. 🤞🏼

[@maxcorder2211]

That would be the aircraft carrier Ranger. Those would probably be Admirals on board, rather than Generals for Top Gun. But there could have been a couple.

[@FrapachinoPlz]

What are the other ways I could get money or help for school ? Currently ppl student flying once a week

[@the_dude111]

Never thought I’d see this day.

[@sfee2460]

I wanted to go to ATP but have yet found anyone to say anything good about it. Cold you do a video on the fastest ways to get your app also you hinted about how to find money to fly could you do a video on that?

[@jacobogg3362]

I’m an atp student. Not sure if I’d recommend atp to anyone. It’s very tough

[@bashoken]

I was seriously considering atp but when I visited I didn’t get a good feeling. Decided to go with another flight school where it seems a lot more put together and I think it will work out just fine as far as getting a flight instructor job and getting into the regionals

[@reyesben]

Do you pay scales ever drop?

[@riod43]

Can you touch on picking up contract work on the side with your existing type rating? I am curious to know if 121 regionals allow their pilots to pick up contract work on their off days if they happen to also have a type rating in a learjet/gulfstream/citation.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Great question- most major airlines and freight companies do not allow their pilots to fly for money on the side. We actually have a whole video on this that may help. Thanks!

[@riod43]

@@ProPilotPlaybookI understand major airlines do not. I was told anecdotally chief pilots with some regionals allow it on a case by case basis.

[@shadowfax123456]

@@riod43 Usually not, especially with part 135 operators if you fail a checkride or have action against you it will carry over the consequences to the 121

[@jrmonstergennuso6233]

Hey guys, trying to secure financing for flight training and running into issues even though I’m an 800 credit score and make $6,500/month Any ideas on how to overcome this?!? I’m tryin to go to a local flight school who’s bank only wants to loan hlf of what’s needed and wants a co signer.

[@USAFA00]

AA hasn’t signed a new contract. The negotiating committee came to an Agreement in Principle (AIP) with AA. That then goes to the union Master Committee which will vote whether or not to put the AIP out to the pilot group for a vote, at which point the AIP becomes a Tentative Agreement (TA). Once the pilots vote in favor of the TA, it becomes a signed contract. This process t makes 2-3 months typically and that’s if the TA passes, which isn’t a guarantee.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Copy Uncle Rico, love the handle BTW! The article we were referencing was not clear on those details.

[@truckerownerops]

Hey guys this is jose a couple of years ago I had asked a question about age 40 to become a pilot and broke. I am now 47 still broke I have worked my but off to try to save I am working as truck driver I am really heart broken I don't know what to do to achieve this goal I was heading in the right direction was saving then my wife got cancer clean me out financially then my truck broke down and clean my finances again some more and eventually went out of business now Im. Making peanuts for pay and my dream is fading I don't know what to do I'm measurable and unhappy with not achieving my goal . I can't get loans I've tried and I still have zero hours of flight time Any advise is helpfull.

[@Songersx]

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts with L3Harris flight school in Sanford FL?

[@dylanholman3]

I’ve been wanting to find more info on them as well. I originally wanted to go ATP but am starting to second guess wanting to go that route.

[@akhenatondieudonne314]

I believe that school is a very good option. I was going to go there but getting accepted for financing was hard FOR ME cuz ik other ppl that got accepted almost immediately but that school I would say is a top tier school

[@TheBigB4000]

Good for pilots, of course, but the majors shot themselves in the foot when they underpaid their regional pilots that eventually caused the pilot shortage. I remember one pilot back in the day being on food stamps. Plus, it doesn't help that it requires thousands in pilot training and certification, which, for the most part, is borne by the pilot. Still, congratulations to the pilots on a well-deserved pay raise.

[@bartoszskowronski]

flight hours, turboprop vs jet. Is that a difference in CV?

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Jet time is more valuable than turboprop time. However they're both great!

[@bartoszskowronski]

@@ProPilotPlaybook thanks!

[@Musiqman76]

Can you guys talk about the possibility of future careers as a pilot getting cut short due to artificial intelligence (A.I.) and auto pilot technology advancing to the point of replacing human pilots?

[@f.channinghunter2961]

Most planes still need pilots. Even with autoland, you still need a person who can troubleshoot aircraft systems

[@ExtremeRecluse]

I was in the army. After each war, they couldn't get rid of them fast enough. That has all changed.

[@topofthegreen]

How did they pull it off being there is no pilot shortage and the pilot market place is extremely competitive where only the very best get a job.

[@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq]

Aviation maintenance is the place to be.

[@thatguy7085]

Airlines need young pilots… not just for longevity of service for training, but younger is healthy. Keep them on track to staying healthy.

[@ExtremeRecluse]

How in the hell are the military services able to hold on to pilots? Get 2000 hours on multi engine jets at 24 years old. 2 years regional and then majors.

[@Patsworldbaby]

I’m thinking about becoming an airline pilot. I just know after I graduate I gotta get 1,500 hours. Then I can become a first officer at the airlines making 70k a year. Kinda a bummer I make about 60k now, that’s not much of a difference to tell you the truth.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Yes but how much will you be making at your job 10 years from now? You've got a look at the career earnings. Thank you for the comment!

[@Patsworldbaby]

@@ProPilotPlaybook i know what your saying. But how long before I at least make 100k a year??

[@Ty-zd9pz]

@@Patsworldbaby check airline pilot central, a lot of regionals are offering close to that starting out as an FO.

[@gringoloco8576]

​@@Patsworldbaby 2 yrs in. All my buddies who just left all make over $100k

[@roberthunter5119]

Coranado is all Navy. North Island and NAB

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Thanks Robert, it's an awesome place.

[@SPEAKEASYAZ4895]

Too bad these airlines don't pay flt attds very good.

[@markmywords9372]

Pilots may be killing the golden goose, AI and autonomous drones are coming. They went from a three man cockpit to a two, may not be too long to a one. Good for you guys for now...

[@sfee2460]

*fastest ways to get your atp

[@pkizzle65]

Yeah, its cute to get hired to Delta or United but guys need to be paid the amount where they left off of. McDonaldls manger will make 30K but here goes to BurgerKing and make 40K, yet an airline pilot wil still make much less for their experience. Thi is the problem, plenty of pilots that have the quality experience but we hire new people.

[@rickjames4031]

100k a year is trash. With debt. Consumer and auto debt. Hopefully debt free sooner than later.

[@pkizzle65]

You guys hoot and holler about this newest pay scale but forget to see the pay compared to pre-regulation. Pilots are far behind the curve comparatively to our past.

[@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq]

And the beginning yoy hear 590k per yr, 😅😂, no 40 yr Captains on the 777 will top 320k.

[@bbat2159]

It’s a little bit disrespectful when a guy refers to the person they’re flying with as a “copilot.” And not a first officer? Do you think they’ve worked a little bit harder than the credit you’re giving them? Especially coming from another professional pilot? Refer to the person you’re flying with as a first officer. Give them the respect that’s due. You’re not flying a single pilot airplane.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Hey B Bat, thanks for the comment, and this is great subject BTW. "First Officer" or "Second Officer" (which have pretty much all been done away with due to technology) is very much an airline term, in the corporate world the right seat is referred to as either the Co-Pilot or Co-Captain. Not disrespectful whatsoever, actually I'm not sure how that would be disrespectful? Even in the airlines co-pilot is still used alot, especially by passengers. However, I personally prefer to use First Officer, but in the corporate world it usually just comes off sounding weird. Sean

[@user-mc7wu7ii3k]

Second officers haven’t been done away with. You’re thinking of “flight engineer”. Second officer is a term not really used in the US, but it refers to the relief pilot on an augmented crew (long haul).

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Hello Timothy, I was referring to a F/E, many carriers called them S/O's when they were everywhere. However, I didn't realize there are operators using that term for the relief crew though. Good info, thanks

[@p39483]

You guys talk like a UAL ALPA negotiating committee.

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

You guys are being so optimistic....I have 1,000 hours TT 200 multi and can't even make 50k as a pilot.

[@mkelly2403]

most of the high paying jobs aren't hiring anyone under 12-1500hrs unless they have military time to transfer over

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

@@mkelly2403 That proves my point, there is not a shortage of pilots.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Hey Aero, remember you're going to need at least 1,500hrs before you can start chasing down the big money. Keep grinding!

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

@Aero FALSE. Aero we should have you as a guest on the show so we can get you straigtened out, haha ☺. I'm sure from your perspective sitting currently at 1k hrs it appears to be saturated, I assure you it is not. For at least the next 5-7 years there will still be more professional pilots retiring from the top than there are pilots entering the training pipline on the bottom. There are many factors contributing to this pickle were in, but rest assured it's real and take comfort that you have chosen a great career to chase down.

[@mkelly2403]

@@Hedgeflexlfz how exactly? If there are 5k pilots retiring/yr but only 2k/yr are able to start as FOs, how does that not create a shortage?

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

There are no pilots making that kind of money 5 years out of flight school, what the hell are you talking about. It takes 20 years if you're lucky as a pilot to make 400-500k.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Hi Aero, thank you for the comment. I think your a bit confused about what we were saying... Your comment is correct, but nowhere did we say that. That high pay number from American comes after you've been at the major for 12yrs (if you don't fly any overtime). All the majors payscales are based on 12 or 15 year periods to reach the top. Of course to get to the major they're going to want to see some professional flying experience; 135, 121 regional, etc. So, it is absolutly 100% true with no arguement that the number we gave is correct after being at American after 12yrs. Also PSA has a guaranteed flow to American after 5yrs, but most flow over before that.

[@Chriss-Gear]

@@ProPilotPlaybook you are not guaranteed to flow in 5 years. Gotta read the contract details. Currently through a Letter of Agreement (Not contractual!) pilots will go to year 20 pay at the wholly owned regional. Current higher rates expire end of 2026. Again these are per an LOA, NOT contractual, could change. It can take 7-10 years to flow. Many FOs interview elsewhere and start their major careers much sooner at United, Delta, etc. The game has changed but could revert to the good old days. Are these great times for pilots? YES! But always prepare for the worst.

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

Pilots with 1500 hours are being denied from the regional airlines, there is not shortage of pilots.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

Avoid the naysayers! There are many reasons someone doesn't get hired, and often those getting denied may not be telling the entire story of why. Here are some reasons I've not hired candidates in the past: driving history, criminal history, extremely sloppy appearance at the interview, obvious falsification of logbooks, straight up lied about a situation in the interview, etc. Keep your head up, keep grinding, and make no assumptions.

[@ShaneSchmidt]

This is pure propaganda. SkyWest alone is losing 250+ per MONTH to the majors. They can't hire fast enough just to fight attrition. I got 9 offers in 7 weeks. Don't spread this malarkey.

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

@@ShaneSchmidt Please explain why pilots are being turned down with 1500 hours

[@gringoloco8576]

Not true...they just need captains right now...but that's supposed to flip in fall.

[@ProPilotPlaybook]

It all trickles down... From a left seat at the majors to a flight instructor at a mom & pop flight school.