Why The U.S. Has A Severe Pilot Shortage

[@MylesDanielBaker]

My husband is getting his private pilot’s license and the entire process is slow, expensive, and time consuming. I don’t expect this to get better quickly.

[@joseadorno292]

I can say that’s absolutely true, currently making my bachelor’s in commercial pilot, it’s been a pain.

[@ehsanmikaeili9315]

@@joseadorno292 why?

[@joseadorno292]

@@ehsanmikaeili9315 reasons that Myles Baker mentioned!

[@MylesDanielBaker]

In Virginia there is only a handful of doctors who can complete your medical review. You need to pay for all the costs associated with learning to fly, including instructor time, hours in the plane, hangar fees, etc. for each session. Until you have an instrument rating you can only fly during clear conditions.

[@carlthor91]

@@MylesDanielBaker Some airlines used to take on graduates from the aviation colleges, and put them through their own schools. Haven't heard of that being carried on. I guess because of the 1,500 hour rule. The Chinese are training some of their pilots in Red Deer Alberta, when a friend takes one of his Cessnas in for work, he has to put up with a packed circuit. Best wishes from the far North.

[@codyjmathis]

100k for flight school and then spend 5-10 years as a regional pilot making 30-50k for terrible schedules and pressures that come with working for a low cost carrier. Sounds to me like it’s time for the big airlines to step up, and help fix the mess they created by passing the buck to regional airlines (that they created) in the first place.

[@KRYMauL]

It sounds like they are, I personally in general we need to bring back the apprenticeship programs because this whole everyone goes to college thing is ridiculous and has generated more problems than its solved.

[@WhiteWolfos]

Makes it much easier to become a doctor with less pressure for the similar price range but way better pay

[@KRYMauL]

@@WhiteWolfos How about more apprenticeship programs where you learn on the job and in the classroom. Also, stopping the whole medical school taking 10+ years thing. Maybe they could introduce programs where hospitals hire people as nursing assistants and train them to be doctors. Same with lawyers and the like.

[@Spawn223311]

@@KRYMauL I agree. Time wasting and/or efficiency needs to be examined in the education department.

[@fulton92503]

​@@KRYMauL people need an income while training

[@jeanpierre8248]

There are TONS of people who are willing to be pilots, but unless they make it more affordable, not much will change

[@jason4275]

They need to start paying $40-50K a year for first officers, I hear it's still around $21,000 a year for First officers.

[@Tabby_Man_3]

@@jason4275 they just did. Regional first Officer pay is around $90,000 now at some of the bigger regionals.

[@Kalashniky]

@@jason4275 I’m not aware of FO pay that low anywhere in the US, i think the bottom feeder regionals are at minimum 40 grand

[@deepzone31]

Access to a plane, access to a experienced instructors, access to a professional grade simulator, classroom access, class materials, the flight experience time requirement. These things sound like hard costs that you'd have to take a loss on to make flight training affordable. Unless instructors start doing things pro bono I don't expect the education costs to go down much. The way forward is for the airlines to start subsidizing promising candidates.

[@ljthirtyfiver]

@@Kalashniky hasn’t been that low in well over a decade now . I’ve never seen so many lies on one video

[@bingosunnoon9341]

I fell for that pilot shortage stuff myself. Spent a huge amount of money and got all the ratings. Flew as a commercial pilot for two years and quit because of low pay. I made less than minimum wage, honestly. How is that even possible?

[@binzsta86]

you don't break sweats flying, that's why

[@mctransportation9831]

@@binzsta86 untill something goes wrong. Plus, they require covid shots.

[@Merabstudio]

The disrespect is real, especially in Canada. I’m better off working at Mc Donald’s, God forbid!

[@lindyc.2552]

It is truly insane! When my brother went through all his ratings and got hired by a regional carrier flying a Jetstream and then an Embraer his pay was so little, that if he had had children, he would have qualified for food stamps!!!! The company pilots at that time (in the 1990's picketed for better wages). My brother hung in there and after 25 years moved over to a major carrier as a Captain. But all those years, all I heard was about the battles the pilots had with the unions trying to get better concessions from the airlines. It was ALWAYS an uphill battle. Then after 30 years, he finally was making a decent good salary, only to be FORCED into retirement at age 65... All the effort, all the expense all the years of paying your dues with low wages and working up the aviation ladder, just doesn't seem worth it to me! Also, and perhaps more importantly, many airline pilots end up with cancers due to greater radiation at higher altitudes. My brother has just had several skin cancers removed from the left side of his face...the side of his face that was exposed most to the windows as he sat in the left side Captains seat! Was it all worth it?????? I don't know...

[@-Wreckanize-]

@@binzsta86 guess you've never been on short final in a crosswind with low minimums.

[@apilotnamedjoshgaming3913]

As a person who is about to become a licensed commercial pilot I can honestly say the biggest roadblock for people interested in becoming professional pilots is the exceptionally high cost associated with the training. I think I have spent right around $80k so far to fulfill my dreams of becoming an airline pilot. Hopefully, it all pays off in the end.

[@enriquebolanos5221]

How long has it taken you since the time you started?

[@Mshi-]

Jesus, I wanted to be a pilot but seeing you pay 80K forget that.

[@beeupsidedown]

@@Mshi- sometimes that number can go up to 100k. Make sure to do your own research though. I want to become an airline pilot super bad but, the only thing keeping me from doing that right now is the cost it takes. I just cannot take that risk of failing without being in so much debt.

[@pythons206]

​@@beeupsidedownsome collages like western Michigan that have good flight schools but for the degree and flight training there its like 500k

[@samisami5358]

As a person starting from 0, I can confirm funding is the issue. I gotta work to pay my bills and feed my family first and then save a little to have a bit to at least start slowly. Loans are predatory and not easy to get.

[@courtneysawyer8407]

I’m a female pilot in training currently. It’s so expensive that the goal seems hard to reach. The estimates of how long it takes to get licensed are not that accurate if you have to save and budget while you’re in training. If you have a lack of funding during training and have to pause to save again, you loose skills during that time. It’s such an expensive career to get into.

[@cadetsc7701]

I’m an airline pilot and I fully agree with your comment. Took me a little less than a year to go from zero time to flight instructor but that was just the beginning of the journey. Months and months of instructing going on 14 hour days sometimes to only get paid for 4 hrs. I almost gave up once my school closed down due to Covid. I am fortunate to have had support from parents or else I wouldn’t be an airline pilot today. Thankfully the regionals are paying a wage that’s been long over due. I know a regional captain making 44k a month now. It gets better. All I can say is don’t give up. We need more diversity in the cockpit.

[@courtneysawyer8407]

@@cadetsc7701 That’s awesome for you! That’s such short timing. I work 40 hours a week and then am training on top of it with all the other life stuff so I definitely couldn’t see myself training that fast but i’ll get there eventually.

[@cadetsc7701]

@@courtneysawyer8407 I was a full time student but I started in 2017 and joined the airlines last year. Would’ve finished a little sooner if Covid didn’t happen but that lead to the massive pay raises we see today. Good luck with training and keep pushing!

[@Skyhawk656]

I had to quit after 10 years in that cycle. In 3 months I was in IT, and will most likely make way more than a pilot. Sad to see my life’s work die, but it’s so expensive they don’t want to fix the training pipeline.

[@jacobzindel987]

@@Skyhawk656 BINGO!

[@johnpatrick1588]

The $400k pilot salary generally refers to a Captain flying the largest planes in the fleet (widebody) as the captain for a minimum of 12 years in that model/class aircraft at a mainline/legacy carrier - American, United, and Delta. Decades to get done.

[@jason4275]

And to think people make that kind of money just making KZbin videos, many women makes that much per month on onlyfans.

[@SisyphusJP]

@@edhcb9359 I have the wrong genitals to be “talented”

[@mukkaar]

@@edhcb9359 That's one way to put it

[@ljthirtyfiver]

Yea while the regular guys make 200k …….like are y’all serious man ?

[@johnames6430]

and the captain likely gave up his life, never saw his family if he had one, and never got proper sleep from being in different time zones. You don't get to go home each night and sleep in your own bed after taking the dog for a walk. Airline pilot is just a coal miner in the air.

[@alexslaydon5589]

There is not a pilot shortage, there is a shortage of QUALIFIED pilots. All of your ratings (PPL, Instrument, Commercial, CFI) cost around $100,000. Then you have to meet your ATP requirements, which may take years depending on where you're teaching. It's a very multi-layered issue.

[@joebidenisyourpresidentget2481]

Cut the layers and you solve the issue. Lower the requirements.

[@mikea5745]

The vast majority of the cost is the 1500 hour requirement. It's ridiculous that someone can do 1300 hours in a 150, and that somehow makes them more qualified to fly a transport plane than if they'd only done 300 in a 150. The hours they put in for commercial sim is far more important

[@mellojohnson5844]

@@joebidenisyourpresidentget2481 why would you reduce requirement you have people life in your hand. I don't want to be flow by a pilot with less requirement

[@steveo85]

Less than 3% of auto mechanics are female. Why isn’t anyone complaining?

[@andyc9902]

It's so hard to Get qualifications!

[@nickdanger9052]

This pilot shortage is caused by one and only one reason - The absurd 1500 hour rule. I have a friend, flying in cloudy, rainy weather, when he lost one of 2 engines, in a plane that cannot stay aloft on 1 engine. He crashed near Lone Rock, WI. after making a fatal mistake on approach. At age 26, his life ended. That was 35 years ago. He had 1800 hours, 1500 of which were in gliders (in which he was an amazing pilot), totally inappropriate type of time for what he was doing when he died. But he met the requirements for small plane charter, and for airlines. The general public has mistaken idea that hours means experience, it does not. Type of hours matters: number of landings, time in the weather, approaches in the weather, night time, landings at night, thunderstorm avoidance, not items even measured by this rule. And how does a pilot get hours these days and not go bankrupt, by Flight Instructing, a skill completely worthless in an airline setting. A female pilot was hired at United Airlines in the 1980s with 350 hours total time, flew until age 65 mandatory retirement age, never scratched a plane and was well known in the airline as one of the most competent pilots the airline ever had. When hired, she did not have 1500 hours to learn a lot of bad habits. She was well trained by the seasoned pilots at UA until she became Captain, and then returned the favor by helping to train other young pilots, before this 1500 hour rule. Bad habits are learned in the time built between 350 and 1500 hours, and it is far more difficult to unlearn bad habits, than learn for the first time correctly. But the hours mythology persists. And of course the Unions want to maintain the shortage. Example: In this video, at 2:49, the pilot in training jams the throttle full open, and the Flight Instructor does not catch the error. Maybe she does not know. This is NOT done with an air cooled aircraft piston powerplant. Slow advancement of the throttle in a time frame of about 5 to 7 seconds would be correct. A pilot cannot do this to a jet engine either. Throttle advancement is slow, and depending on the engine, with a hesitation letting the engine catch up. Terrible bad habit learned, which will need to unlearned. Written by retired 32 year airline pilot, 10 Type Ratings, CFIAI+MEA+G, 21,000 hours, 400 hours in weather, 7000 hours at night, and about 8000 landings.

[@asarangan]

Absolutley! I also noticed the throttle jam on the video. Bad habits die slowly. Your comments are all true. 1500 hours flying around a VFR traffic pattern yelling more right rudder does not translate to more competence than 200 hours in the clag shooting approaches to minimums.

[@anthonyvallillo422]

Interestingly, UAL once had what amounted to an ab-initio program back in the late 1960's. I well remember the ads in Flying Magazine recruiting for this back then that touted:"We'll pay you a million dollars to fly for our airline" (remember that in the late 1960's a mill was still a LOT of money! That amount, of course, represented the total career earnings and not some lavish signing bonus...). They actually hired some people more or less right off the street, and put them through civilian pilot training, and then into the airline entry level at that time, which was to be the third pilot on a 737. Yes, you heard that right. Few today recall that when the 737 initially came out, the UAL pilots insisted upon having three pilots up front. The third pilot essentially rode the jump seat and kept the pay sheets, probably also scanning for traffic from the limited perch in the back. It might have eventually worked but for one small problem - furloughs came along in the early 1970's and of course all of the ab-initios were laid off; and, when they were recalled, had great difficulty performing in one of the actual required crew positions after the long hiatus. Bad timing. According to one of that group that I met much later, UAL let them remain as flight engineers if they could not make the grade in a window seat. Now as to whether a major airline, or even a regional airline, can fly with 350 hour new hires on the line...it has been done. But it puts a great burden on the Captain, who is now required to be a full time instructor. Regardless of the fact that an ATP carries instructor privileges at a Part 121 operation (scheduled commercial airline), the modern 2 pilot cockpit is not really designed to be operated as a flying classroom; the demands upon both pilots being high enough even in normal operations as to make the additional workload of instructing at that level of inexperience difficult. On the other hand, when I finished pilot training in 1972 I started flying large 4 engine jet transports all over the world with a total of less than 300 hours at first. What made that work was 1) the incredible and absolute standardization that existed in the Military Airlift Command, 2) the large cockpit crew - we had, in addition to a minimum of two and more often three pilots, one or two navigators and two flight engineers on every flight. That large crew took some of the burden from the aircraft commander, 3) The Air Force Squadron, which was small enough that everyone knew everyone, and the bosses knew the capabilities, strengths and weaknesses of each crewmember, even the newest. Developmental crewmembers were tracked closely until they eventually upgraded to aircraft commander, usually in around 3 years and at the 1000 total hour mark as a minimum. No airline can monitor the day by day progress of new hires at that level of detail, and fortunately they haven't had to, at least at the majors. Pilots can indeed be trained from scratch to fly complex airplanes in fewer than 300 hours, but done correctly it costs several million dollars a head over a pretty short period, around a year or two. This is how it works in the military. The reason that THEY have a pilot shortage is 1) they drew down much of their pilot training capability in the decades after Vietnam ended and 2) they have occasionally furloughed pilots over the years and in almost every case that decision came back to haunt them within a few years. Military pilots do not have automatic recall rights like airline pilots typically do, and a few years after they are forced out they have found other and often more desirable employment and do not return, even when offered the opportunity. I saw all of this coming, at least at American, back in 1984, when we began the largest hiring cycle the industry had seen up to that point. Within 5 years we had hired around 5000 pilots, most of whom were within a few years of each other in age. The bulge in the belly of the snake began at that moment, and now some 30 years later it is reaching the other end. I recall thinking back then about what it would be like when 5000 pilots all retire within a few years of one another. We are finding out what that looks like now!

[@PhycoKrusk]

Current regs require 250 hours to qualify for the commercial certification, 100 of which must be in powered aircraft, and only 50 of which must be fixed wing. Yes, there are some other requirements, but the basic gist is that anyone with 350 hours had more or less _just_ gotten their commercial cert. 1500 does seem too high to me, because that's a _lot_ of time and, more importantly, a lot of money that most people don't have. Plenty of folks who would be happy with just their PPL can't afford the $10,000 needed to get there, even if they can set aside the 40 hours needed to qual. 1500 hours is a mortgage these days, and immediately excludes most people from even thinking about it.

[@PhycoKrusk]

@@climbmaintain only if you're an instructor, which is not something that everyone wants to do, or that they _can_ do: "I'll become a flight instructor" is only effective if there's an outfit in your area that needs one, _and_ you're the only one who goes for the position. Especially right now, because flying is too expensive; even if you are an instructor, you'll only get paid for time you're instructing. If there are no students, then you don't get paid, which means if you want those flight hours, you're paying for them.

[@PhycoKrusk]

@@climbmaintain ok. I fixated on the wrong things. I guess it would make sense the 1500 hour requirement only applies to commercial airlines and not smaller outfits, especially any where you aren't transporting people.

[@heavysighs]

As a retired FAA Controller, one problem was 20 years ago someone told the Government that by 2020 we'd be completely automated. No need for pilots and controllers. Computers will do it. Many companies, including the FAA, believed this.

[@KenKen-ui4ny]

My confidence in letting computers have full total control over a passenger aircraft is quite next door to zero. And if you want to know why, look at what happened to the 737 max when it was first put into service.

[@nikobelic4251]

Yeah, I think that scared a lot of people into not going into the profession And surprise surprise (not) it didn’t happen

[@ayushgarg6069]

seriously this was said 20 yrs ago also ?? i just completed my cpl in india nd will be joining an airline soon. i have been hearing such news and this thought scares me sometimes

[@Edhilues]

People sometimes forget how real world works, will union let the airlines to purchase fully automated software in the first place? And there’s tons of jurisdictional issues that no one has an answers.

[@matthewwallace9380]

I've thought about this issue. I'm a private pilot and a physics PhD and there does seem to be a sense that airplane flight ought to be fully automated by now and and that pilots should be obsolete because we should be able to write a computer script to fly the plane. To me, this also has resulted in a loss of prestige for the pilot profession because you're doing a job that ought to be done by a computer, or that will soon be replaced by a computer. But it's not so easy for a computer to execute certain tasks, and you still need a human pilot on board for certain things. Especially if something goes wrong, if there is a system failure or a problem with the passengers or the flight attendants, you need a human there to deal with it.

[@Buzz_Kill71]

This is a perfect example of an industry destroying it's own labor market. The greedy airlines appear to under pay, under appreciate the top level profession of airline piloting.

[@benjaminanderson6709]

Did you even watch the video? That's not at all why there's a shortage.

[@Buzz_Kill71]

@@benjaminanderson6709 The video throws a myriad of reasons why there is a shortage. Does it make sense to you that they have to cancel scheduled flights for staff shortages? Like they were not aware that they didn't have enough pilots at the time they mapped it out. Greed is why you would schedule flights and sell tickets without knowing who's gonna fly the plane. The airlines have a certain amount of planes, pilots and capacity. They should begin to act like it...

[@migueldenovi5873]

@Schooey The problem is 100% government regulation. In 2013 the requirement for new airline pilots was increased from 250 hours to 1,500 hours. That's when the problem started. And pilots with jobs are not to keen on going back to 250 because it is more competition for them.

[@bradcrosier1332]

@@migueldenovi5873 - There’s a reason for that regulation. The greedy airlines didn’t want to pay for pilots, so they’ve farmed out much of their work to code share carriers, who hired pilots who in many cases for various reasons couldn’t get hired at a mainline carriers and who would work for a fraction of the cost of a mainline pilot. In many cases you get what you pay for, which has been demonstrated in many accidents involving regional carriers - including Colgan in Buffalo. If the airlines had continued to treat pilots as valuable professionals, there would have been plenty of people in the pipeline. The airlines destroyed the profession, so people quit pursuing it and many others (including myself) left it. I fly a higher worth individual now who treats me very well and compensates me accordingly. People used to leave jobs like mine for the airlines, now it’s completely the opposite. THAT is why there is a shortage - because it’s been turned into a crap job by the airlines (and I’ve been warning that this was coming for well over a decade).

[@DerekDavis213]

@@migueldenovi5873 I would NOT fly on a plane with a pilot with only 250 hours. Regulation is good, *it* *saves* *lives* !

[@johnpatrick1588]

In 2019 American Air had reported 18k pilots and now only 15,000. They offered early retirement and other perks to get them to leave. Same with the other work groups and airlines. Management made the problems.

[@hairypancake4425]

Well, that problem probably leads to AI or program controlled commercial aircrafts

[@HermannTheGreat]

The irony of this suit is that he's sitting there acting like it's a new problem they have to solve, when they created it in the first place.

[@ak5659]

@@HermannTheGreat Commercial airline pilot is not the only field with this situation. Ih would pe interesting to know if anyone warned about the upcoming shortage of pilots.

[@aaronyu2660]

EXACTLY

[@jamisonmunn9215]

The governments made those problems by shutting down the world when Covid struck.

[@Antonio-lt1sp]

Here in Brazil we have commercial co-pilots with 200 hours, and we have one of the safest operations in the world. 1500h is absolutely ridiculous. Actually it is just a threshold to politicians cover their asses. Young pilots should have opportunities to acquire the experience, and you do so by flying. Piloting a small propelled aircraft for 1500h won't do much for experience in a commercial airliner.

[@alankwellsmsmba]

You would be better to spend a couple hundred hours in a simulator running trouble scenarios. Sitting in a seat and watching the autopilot is of little value. Like so many "professions" these days, licensure is more about restricting supply to boost compensation. Piloting is kind oa gamble, you go deep in debt to get a shot at a career that can be pretty sweet but not al make it. My son in law (trained in a US school) flies for Copa and spent years as a flight attendant trying to make the connections necessary to get on. He would have been happy to fly Regional in USA, but immigration. Most of the shortage (which you point out) is due to government licensing idiocy.

[@johnpatrick1588]

Check out KZbin videos of Columbian cargo airline Aerosucre. They are a blast and may be explained by having 200-hour co-pilots.

[@seanpierre1338]

The planes have so much computing power they could basically fly themselves. You dont need 1500h anymore.

[@namedropper9237]

The video is kinda misleading with the 1,500 hours. The minimum amount of hours to get your private pilots license is 40, a commercial certificate is 250. I don’t really know where they got 1,500. I know most airlines won’t consider you until you’re at 1000 minimum so maybe that somehow got lost in translation?

[@danielhillenburg4483]

@@namedropper9237 To fly for an airline you need an Airline Transport Pilot License (ATP). This is required for all airlines, including regional and cargo airlines (the only exceptions are very small planes with fewer than 9 seats, which only require a commercial certificate and 250 hours). This requires 1500 hours of flight time. There are a few exceptions to let you get a Restricted Airline Transport Pilot License (R-ATP) which allow you to serve as a first officer, although not as pilot-in-command. These are 1250 hours of flight time for those with an associate's degree in aviation, 1000 hours of flight time for those with a bachelor's degree in aviation, and 750 hours for military pilots. Other than that, though, you need 1500 hours of flight time.

[@jsheav]

I feel like the real problem was barely mentioned: the 1500 hour rule. The amount of time went from 250 to 1500 hours because of the buffalo incident (mind you, the pilot in this case had 3000 hours of experience). This makes training very expensive, since you have to pay to get those hours. Who would want to go through all that?

[@jimleech2364]

and its all downhill from there.

[@Jetlag7]

I never understood the argument setting the bar to 1500 makes training costs more expensive. Newly-minted Commercial pilots are licensed at just under 300 hours... From that point on why wouldn't they go out and find an entry-level job banner towing, flight instructing, pipeline patrol, flying skydivers, etc... In order to build flight time? Who in their right mind is moronic enough to pay for the remaining 1200 hours? What kind of BS sales pitch are these flight schools selling that convinces brand new Commercial pilots they need to pay for experience?

[@stunner4146]

That is incorrect. You don't pay for 1500 hours. CPL hour requirement is 250 hours under part 61 and a good portion of that can be offset by simulator training. You need a minimum of a CPL to fly "for hire" with many restrictions. However, most part 135 carriers don't hire people with less than 500 hours. This is why most people end up becoming a flight instructor to train new students. This allows them to build hours and meet their 1500 hour requirement while getting paid. Also, the figures of flight training listed are from structured programs. Legally speaking, you can rent out an old Cessna 150 and rent it out for $100 an hour and hire a flight instructor on the side and build hours that way. If you're paying 150 an hour total, that's $37500 for all 250 hours... And that's if you choose not to fly 50 hours in the sim to offset those training requirements under part 61. If you fly the 200 hours, then the total price is $30,000. I will concede the point that only the people who have an understanding of the industry are able to do this, however, if you talk to any certified flight instructor at any flight school, they can give you this information.

[@christopherlangston8173]

That's a big reason

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Buffalo incident? What is that?

[@Theaverageamerican0006]

Something not mentioned much is the fact that you have to have a history of basically perfect health. Many people would love to fly but between costs, time, lack of guarantees, and very strict guidelines due to the FAA prevent many from being able.

[@natejohnston480]

Exactly! I’m currently enrolled and just yesterday we saw two people have to leave the class due to medical issues, keep in mind the maximum class size is 12, 2 is a lot of people

[@CoPILOTBOB]

No and yes, you have to have good health, mentally you just have to know what you're doing for example ADHD is a common disease amongst many pilots actually, you just need to know how to control it, I'd rather be in a state where I need to train myself to get better than be completely physically unhealthy and unable.

[@Theaverageamerican0006]

@@CoPILOTBOB Oh 100% and I’m glad something like ADHD doesn’t prevent flyers! I mean more stuff like low level epilepsy that’s under control, amongst other things that people medicate for. I understand the FAA’s predicament and reasoning, it’s just sad to me. Plus flying is so expensive for the most part. Again, I understand entirely and I definitely wouldn’t want low standards for people flying overhead. I have controlled epilepsy and would probably fly with my wife anyways, but I can’t go to classes much less get my license :( Never know when you may glitch even if you’ve not had one in a long time haha! But that’s all related more to private pilot licensing which is somewhat off topic haha. I think many people just don’t want to be a commercial pilot, and some regulations eliminate a lot of the ones who do (again understandably so).

[@hotmess9640]

@@CoPILOTBOBadhd is a disorder not disease, and its not black and white. It can actually help, if flying is your passion you won’t be distracted you’ll be hyperfocused.

[@Cb86891]

ANSWER: because flight school is EFFING $100,000.

[@gta4everrr]

The whole Bachelor's Degree requirement never should have been a thing. I really wanted to become a pilot when I was in high school and started to attend an aeronautical college after graduating. Most of those colleges charge a ridiculous amount for tuition, which doesn't even include flight training. After realizing how much debt I'd be buried in after graduating, only to have to bury myself in more debt to get my flight training after graduation, I decided it wouldn't be worth it. If I didn't need to go to college and could've just gone straight into flight training after high school, I'd probably be a pilot right now.

[@GlobalAviator09]

I started my flight training with only a high school diploma and am currently a commercial pilot. I never went to college. There are many flying jobs that don’t require it and recognize flight training as equivalent. There are even a few major airlines that have walked back the 4 year degree policy.

[@evanlabonte4571]

You could of gone to an instate community college for 2 years and then get to your closest undergrad for an additional 2 years. If money was that tight where you couldn’t do that. You could of used fasfa

[@DerakosZrux]

@@evanlabonte4571 What? FAFSA is a given you pretty much have to use it. And even with it, any single year of tuition is too much money and mostly not worth it for what increases in pay it MAY offer. The promises we were all made about college growing up isn't panning out and there's a million reasons not to go and to just focus on learning business online from KZbin and starting your own business. It's literally all really easy and not worth a 4 year business degree. At this point I feel college is mostly for people that want advanced degrees and/or want to work in academia. Because a bachelors is mostly a waste unless you need it to do what you really want to do.

[@optimusprime4443]

That's why I'm going to do only 2 years for an Associate in a community college while I'm doing that I'll be saving money for flight training as well, I just want something to back up myself just in case if anything goes south through the flight training.

[@michaelrmurphy2734]

Like the young Latina woman in the video. She "wasted" time and money on a childhood education degree. That someone else could have taken to become a teacher. If she really wanted to be a pilot, she sould have done that straight away. No four year degree in an unrelated program. With all that debt too. And it seems her real passion is golf! Forget teaching and flying. Joint the LPGA! That is where the REAL money is!

[@henryrivera3818]

They didn’t talk about the exhausting part of building time. A CFI (Certificated Flight Instructor) attains a high level of responsibility at such a low wage. If one of the students gets involved in an incident, the CFI is fully responsible for that. This is another reason why some people quit during the time building stage.

[@jmurphy644]

Not to mention that you work long days with students who are trying to get you killed all day 😂

[@mobflyer]

This career requires a high level of responsibility at all levels. Airline pilots have more responsibility in one day then most people have in a life time. You’re responsible for a 100 million dollar piece of equipment and 200 lives. If you think flying a Cessna is exhausting, then this career isn’t for you.

[@merve4930]

I’m also at time building stage and thinking to quit. I dont wanna spend 70k plus to earn 30 dollars per hour in regionals in canada.

[@jmurphy644]

@@mobflyer you're not entirely wrong but perhaps you're missing the point. Being a CFI flying/working 6 or 7 days a week and teaching new students from scratch might be less responsibility but it can be every bit as exhausting and then some.

[@mobflyer]

@@jmurphy644 you’re preaching to the choir here. I get it’s exhausting and the wages are low, however, it’s part of paying your dues. I was in your shoes before, and I remember it vividly.

[@dariosunseri5326]

I’m currently in the process of flight training now. I can honestly say the barrier to entry regarding flight hours is absolutely the reason there’s a shortage. There isn’t a shortage of pilots, there’s a shortage of pilots with the absurdly high experience that the airlines are looking for and nowhere to gain that experience unless you’re willing to fork over a lot of money. Albeit I’m in Canada so I’m not sure what the situation is in the states but that’s the most frustrating thing here.

[@joshuacaranci5967]

Hey bro, so if I have seen correctly, in Canada, you need about 750 or so to join air canada?? In the states, any job involving an airline is automatically 1500 hours, they say become a flight instructor, but we force everyone to become instructors which means bad pilots become instructors and training is not done well. I wish we took a page from Europe and airlines provide their own training thag you pay for, you get your multi commercial and go straight to the airline, notice how Europe doesn't have a pilot shortage lol

[@NoRegertsHere]

Once you get your CPL, your first job will build up 1500 hours inside of 2 years and you won’t be paying for those hours. Good luck, it’s a hard road but it’s worth it

[@J.Halllll]

Be a flight instructor like 90% of the world already has. I'll never understand how people in flight training don't know how the industry works.

[@flat_stickproductions209]

@@NoRegertsHere took me 3-4 years to build those hours.

[@NoRegertsHere]

@@flat_stickproductions209 people do 800-900 hours a year in some first jobs

[@benjaminwarren3918]

There is no pilot shortage. Just like there's no labor shortage, mechanic shortage, or anything similar. Pay what people are worth and they will apply. People aren't stupid. Candidates want to be compensated according to what they are worth and what they bring to the company. Companies need to pay what the candidates are worth for positions, or they won't get the applicant's they desire. It's really quite simple. As another commenter alluded to, the companies created this mess, they need to step up and fix the issues they caused. I'm really getting tired of hearing about shortages in any industry.

[@TwiztedMannix87]

They are looking for pilots but they created the mess. How many times have we heard of airline layoffs? Airlines try to nickle and dime like any other company but also at the cost of safety, they got themselves into that 1500 hour requirement.

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

Yup

[@bradcrosier1332]

PRECISELY!!!

[@joseadorno292]

Currently studying aviation for a bachelor’s in Commercial Pilot, will graduate with a 150k debt! Unfortunately the career is extremely expensive and requires excessive amount of hours to get your licenses and to start working with a main airline. The FAA needs to reconsider regulations on pilots as army pilots do not have as many restrictions.

[@haught7576]

Army pilots don’t fly around private passengers. Check out the Frontline PBS docu on “flying cheap” for an explanation of current standards

[@joseadorno292]

@@haught7576 i know that, however they require less hours since their training is more intense.

[@_Pixie_10]

when you say "excessive amount of hours", is their number of 1500 hours not accurate? I'm just curious, since its not something commonly known

[@joseadorno292]

@@_Pixie_10 Yep, 1,500 hours which approximately take 2 years to complete.

[@_Pixie_10]

​@@joseadorno292 so what makes it excessive? the sheer volume of hours or the amount of time to do it in? how many additional hours are spent that aren't counted towards flights hours?

[@JamaicanMeCrazy]

I was just considering this. Gonna be a trucker instead. Similar pay way easier and cheaper to start. Obviously not as glamorous

[@mikea5745]

Definitely easier and cheaper to start, but the pay is miles apart. Doubly so when you consider the pay on an hourly basis. Pilots typically earn $100 to $400 per flight hour, and only fly 100 hours per month at maximum

[@waltervila33]

You’ve read my mind and as a bonus there’s a shortage too

[@JamaicanMeCrazy]

@@waltervila33 yup. Can you believe me surprise when I found out the starting salary is mid $50s... That's why there's a damn shortage.

[@JamaicanMeCrazy]

@@mikea5745 hi Mike. I'm speaking specifically about the starting salary. It's appalling. From my research they start making good money with decent experience. Like a decade in but it's the same with a trucker by that time a trucker might own his own truck or even several. And his earning potential will increase as well.

[@jason4275]

My Uncle is a trucker and he says owning your own Big Rig is when you start making your own money and rules, choose when and where you want to work, and you can make up to $50-75K your first year owning your own big rig instead of renting one.

[@chillzvibez7570]

You guys should do a follow up on ATC shortage with some of the biggest metro areas in the US being less than 60-50% staffed, overworked (60hrs a week), and underpaid. Would love to hear FAA reasoning

[@Josh_Morales]

It's so expensive to become one that they have to go into debt and the pay often doesn't justify it. They also have to intentionally delay flights to get breaks. They're pretty much truck drivers but in the sky.

[@ronkirk5099]

Back in the day after I got my private pilot's license at age 19, I had hoped to continue with training and make a career of flying, but some hearing loss and dyslexia made it difficult to properly engage in radio communications so I gave up the dream. I later took up hang gliding and learned to soar like a bird on thermals and mountain lift. I still dream of flying.

[@avarria587]

Flight school is too expensive. I had considered flying at one point in my life, but I saw the price and changed my mind. Between the stress of the job and the insane cost to gain those skills, it just wasn't worth it. I work in laboratory medicine now. One solution we've found in my profession is you sign a contract to work for a hospital 2-3 years and they will pay for your medical education and training. Airlines could do something similar. If someone leaves before their contract is complete, they have to pay a portion back. This has helped train many new laboratorians.

[@irwinsaltzman979]

The airline industry should support prospective pilots and/or have their own schools.

[@timby2383]

There are places that still actually invest in your training? I graduated in BS in Engineering, ready to work even for a smaller pay, but everyone needs 5+ years of professional experience with proven results. Even the so-called "entry-level" jobs, which means we going to pay you like intern but you still better have 3+ years of specific experience :/

[@avarria587]

@@timby2383 The only reason it's so easy for medical lab professionals to get a job right now is we have very, very few training programs and countless jobs to choose from. It's a highly specialized field with few people that can fill those positions. There are few people because many leave the field. The pay isn't great, the hours are long and odd, and the stress can be high. Many just use it as a stepping stone to get a better job. Many places have stepped in to try and get people trained. They pay for their education and training and have the student sign a contract to work for them after they graduate. It's the only way some hospitals can fill their positions - hold someone's financial wellbeing hostage. Sucks, but I am thankful it's an option.

[@larrymitchell3502]

Exactly the point of this video.

[@timby2383]

@@avarria587 I can only imagine that after the pandemic, many from the medical professions needed to take a break and there are a lot of jobs because of that.

[@mariot6531]

How about the 4 major airlines just pay for the entire thing? They got billions in relief. Use that money to educate and train new pilots. Also don’t make new pilots spend 5-10 years flying the regional airlines.

[@WildRuumpus]

As an Airline pilot, I will reiterate that there is NOT a shortage of high schoolers with rich parents that eventually earn their 100k worth of ratings, nor people interested in the job in general. There IS an unwillingness to accept the fact there is a tremendous sacrifice financially, with no guarantee of a payoff, and for that I cannot blame anyone. If you have a family to support, or live a decent QOL going into this venture, you will most likely not be able to make it. If you make it through paying for a 4 year degree in addition to all your ratings, you now have to work as a primary teacher for many years (think of it as a residency that Doctors do) with so little pay that you DO qualify for food stamps. Then when you eventually get your first real job, you make as much as your buddies did when they got out of HS to start working in any other industry. Of course by now, those folks make 2-3 times your salary and while they buy their first homes and have children, you have 150k in student debt, making 50k a yr. Did I mention risk? If ANYTHING happens at all, DUI, License suspension, medical injury, medication needed etc. YOU ARE OUT FOR GOOD. Its over. If you have one issue that surfaces you may be able to overcome with enough money to throw at it (remember that you have more debt than income for the next decade), but two life events and your grounded for life. From day one, I was told "Do not ever choose this as a career unless its only thing you can see yourself doing" and I as much as I scoffed at that comment and tried to ignore it, I cannot help but understand now a decade later how right they were. To any aspiring to do this, understand the cost and risk before you start, and do NOT pursue this career unless its the only option for you to be satisfied.

[@dannenp3110]

The barrier to entry for aviation is, and has always been massive. Personally I spent a little more than $100,000 on training private through CFI (instructor). Instructors and other low time jobs typically pay $35,000 at most and between inflation and student loans it's difficult to even make it to airlines/corporate/freight. I know people that made it through training but had to change careers simply because they couldn't afford to work as an instructor while they built the time necessary for an airline transport license.

[@goingagainstthegrain]

The United States started to divert students from technical school's; funneling them towards a 4-year university (with unnecessary courses.) Decades ago, America should've never dropped the ball on technical school's for mechanics, pilots, plumbers, electricians, truck drivers etc... Now, "The great walk out" has begun. Also, the meager wages didn't help the situation. Now, these big multi-billion dollar companies want to give a hire on bonus and other perks. Well... Like I stated, the ball was dropped 30-40 years ago. Now, you can't find young adults for our military? Capitalism is wonder "sometimes;" until it isn't. That's when greed takes over. I feel sorry for these young adults. I wish them well and hope that our country assists them by doling out large monetary grants.

[@ak5659]

Agree 100%. I don't know about other countries put in the US HS teachers were the loudest voices to warn that this 'college degree for everyone' idea would eventualdy lead to major problems. Naturally, nobody paid attention to them.

[@jonasbaine3538]

@@ak5659 and the teachers are quitting too!

[@johnames6430]

College Degree's should be banned from all job hiring. My barista has a degree

[@ak5659]

@@jonasbaine3538 Yup! I'm a former teacher now working my part time gig as a full time 9-5 job. I make almost as much money, do 1/4 the work, have 1/10 the stress and i do it from home! I'm so glad I'm not in the classroom anymore.

[@baronvonjo1929]

Blue collared work sucks. I had a school that really pushed us towards it and had a whole career center. The work life balance sucks. We have many industries like that near me and they all have the same issues if you look at reviews. Not saying expensive 4 year stuff is the way to go. And I know South Korea also has this issue. The government pushed towards 4 year white collared degrees and now give or take it is now social unacceptable to go to a more blue collared job and a huge oversaturation of office degree stuff.

[@MrGhosthacked]

SOMEONE PAID FOR THIS VIDEO: congress bailed out the airlines during the pandemic with the promise that they wouldn’t do layoffs for 18 months. In month 19 they laid off 1/3rd of the pilots. Why? The old guys where getting paid a lot - the top of the salary bracket. These young kids with ZERO experience can get paid less than 6-figures. The airlines took BILLIONS of tax payer money and then broke their “promise.” CNBC which lobbyist paid you? The National Airline Association? United? American Delta?

[@duancoviero9759]

It's CNBC! It's corporate media, of course they are just puppets for industry. Fox News and ABC would do the same thing 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@FGH9G]

Seriously. Typical too. Don't you just love it when CNBC beats around the bush and just straight up REFUSES to address the obvious elephant(s) in the room. Man CNBC can be pathetically soft sometimes with fact reporting.

[@79Jacobrb]

American Airline’s regional Envoy treated their pilot poorly and insisted pilots are easy to replace. I flew for them for 8 years. It is the management of the airlines that have created this problem. Congress needs to protect the customer and not the airline. If the airline is mismanaged the airline should suffer and not the flying public.

[@bradcrosier1332]

EXACTLY! There’s SOMEONE here who knows the real reason for this!

[@mhdibm7515]

I can argue that the main reason for this is the high initial cost of training , millions around the world - me included - wish to become airline pilots but can't thanks to the expenses mainly

[@charlescook4248]

The most significant change has been the increased salaries during the initial years of flying. They used to pay almost nothing, but now the pay rate has tripled. We went many years with few people becoming student pilots. Now the flight schools are booming. We also have thousands of foreign pilots training in the US.

[@SF-dy6hn]

It's scary to think about all these foreign people coming here and being given such large responsibilities where corporations just pile on the quantity and don't care about the quality. More cheap labor from India? Make them a pilot, a doctor, a bridge engineer. This country is going to go down hard as we refuse to train our own while importing under qualified people from foreign countries whose only qualification is being able to tell bold faced lies. They literally give them fake degrees and send them over here with HB1 Visa's. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYqUinyvjap3h8U

[@ShadowRap-y5l]

Flight schools are charging too much! But the demand will always be there as this is a dream for many people.

[@KlngVJames]

We have a shortage of everything cause alot of schools are funneling people in the tech industry and alot of kids today are not going in fields that have some sort of risk involved

[@behalsingh1290]

Yes i have similar thoughts as well. It is problem of our education system.

[@duancoviero9759]

@@behalsingh1290 you're both right to a degree. People gravitate to tech sectors because it pays well but more important because it is ACCESSIBLE....

[@dpeasehead]

@@duancoviero9759 Yes, accessibility is the much overlooked weak point when it comes to getting people to consider flying as a career. No solution which fails to take this problem into account should be taken seriously.

[@freedomfyodor]

Would you rather work from home doing some programming for 4-5 hours a day, or be gone from home for 5 days over Christmas doing a job where you and 100 people could die if you're not careful? Oh, and you're $100,000 dollars in debt if you pick the second one. Also they both pay the same.

[@shesh32]

I tried to get pilot training through CAE, a Canadian pilot training institute with a branch in India. The fee structure without any sort of accommodation in India and in US(few months there for type certification) was about 130k USD. I just dropped the idea at that moment itself, since it was wayyy too beyond my financial capabilities. It's a difficult profession to get into. Financial support is definitely need to be provided the training companies.

[@johnames6430]

It's not just that, but it's a horrible job akin to driving trucks or coal mining. You won't see your family. Your health will suffer due to lack of sleep.

[@SF-dy6hn]

Nobody wants an Indian pilot your entire education system is based off of fraud. If I saw an Indian pilot with his pilot license from Mumbai and I'd just go back home and turn on the news rather than get onboard a plane. Degree's in India are worthless.

[@kalitareis4295]

I also tried to get into CAE and I live in Canada near by the location and still is 100k to go there, I also have up. Which is really sad since so many people want to become a pilot but its way over my financial limits

[@lifeofmike556]

I looked into becoming a pilot here in Illinois because it's something I wanted to do but it's almost impossible financially. You literally can't work a job and study to be a pilot at the same time. The process is super slow, it's incredibly time consuming and almost doesn't make sense to do. It's over $140,000 for flight school and once you pass you still can't get a job as a pilot because you need flight hours which means you're paying hundreds of dollars out of pocket for flight time when you could've done it in a simulator anyways. The whole system is flawed and needs to be redone. You need serious financial backing from parents to be able to afford your bills and foods, clothes and even to be able to hangout with friends.

[@larrymitchell3502]

Get your butt into one of the airline-sponsored academies such as the ones in the video. They're taking zero-time candidates & fast-tracking them into the right seat of an airliner, SAFELY. If you want to fly, there's a way.

[@djrickyb]

I looked at it years ago (like 15 years ago), and I made a list of the pros and cons, and for me, the cons far outweighed the pros. I also believe that you have to REALLY WANT TO BE A PILOT! I mean you need to have a dedication and love for flying to truly want to be a pilot and deal with all the cons that come with the occupation.

[@johnames6430]

You mean you can't just go take a sh-t or make tiktok videos while flying the plane?

[@ZexyZekJr]

Send that list plZ

[@DerekDavis213]

Isn't being a pilot kind of analogous to being a bus driver, but in the air?

[@DerekDavis213]

@@climbmaintain Flying a plane is demanding/exciting for a few minutes during takeoff and landing. The rest of the time? Autopilot on, then NOTHING. Or maybe a drink and some flirting with flight attendants?

[@DerekDavis213]

@@climbmaintain I work in a comfortable air-conditioned office, with large desk, large comfortable chair, and a lounge where I can go and relax and socialize with colleagues. I can leave work and go get some Starbucks or French pastry in the neighborhood, anytime I want. Why would I want to sit for many many hours in a tiny cockpit? Leg cramps galore! Also the air is *stale* in an airplane. Also, flight attendants are not as pretty as they were 40 years ago!

[@johnpatrick1588]

Flight hours are not all the same. Flying 500 hrs of night freight in all weather on a set schedule single pilot is a lot better quality flight experience than 2000 hours of flying a banner along a sunny beach but that beach banner pilot would qualify for an airline job.

[@adamsauer6516]

eaxctly which is why the 1500 hours are a joke. need to take in less experienced pilots in hours and have them sit co pilot to build hours

[@ljthirtyfiver]

I agree

[@aboveaveragejoe812]

I think when it comes to pilots most are not worried about meeting a diversity quota. I would rather have whoever can get me there alive

[@TwiztedMannix87]

It's out of reach for diversified employment in the states. Anyone can get you there alive just fund their education. as part of the "diversified" crowd we'd starve before we ever get the job, it's not an option unless we get financially supported to train. just like being a doctor, many years starving for a job, we can't do that unless we had "rich parents" or from a semi-wealthy family. There are shortcuts but it involves military service.

[@John-yv6vo]

In the USAF, co-pilots show up after UPT with 100-150 hours and they fly anything from C-17’s, C-130’s, C-5’s, etc. by the time they upgrade to aircraft commanders they have around 1000 hours. Some co-pilots are better than others and might upgrade with less hours with a waiver. 1500 hours to get certed by the FAA is a lot of hours (and a lot of money) to become a co-pilot with a regional airline making peanuts after accruing thousands in debt. I’ve been flying over 20 years as a Flight Engineer on C-130’s and I was told by numerous schools that I basically will be at square one (like someone who’s never been on an airplane) to become a pilot). If the airlines are focusing more on being “diverse” as oppose to getting more qualified people through the pipeline it will be this way for the foreseeable future.

[@pistachioicecream595]

🤙

[@ljthirtyfiver]

Are you sure ? I thought it was like every 3 F.E hours equates to 1 pilot hour? Not sure but I thought I read that somewhere

[@John-yv6vo]

@@ljthirtyfiver I read that as well, but after talking to a few schools they said it’s not a thing. It could be a way they get more money out of you. The FAA reg says 1 hour for every 3 FE hours up to 500 hours

[@ljthirtyfiver]

@@John-yv6vo don’t mind those schools they’re manned by a bunch of people who don’t even know what flight engineer is … get the training, get the certs, keep Your records but first id go down to the local fsdo and talk about what can be done. Don’t talk to the school unless you’re talking about scheduling lessons

[@John-yv6vo]

@@russellalson3370 yea bro, makes no sense why they would prefer someone right off the street with no flight experience. If I had a nickel for every time I corrected a pilot that was about to put us in a bad situation I could afford a flight school.

[@christianfrancis3435]

I’m in the US currently working on my instrument rating. I think a big aspect that a lot of people overlook is the shear amount of time and effort it takes to learn everything and get the ratings in the first place. On top of that, most are not making very much if anything on the side while shelling out around $100,000. All of this only to go on to become an instructor to grind out your 1500 hours. There’s definitely a large barrier to entry which not a lot of rational people are willing to commit to. There’s not many solutions making it easier. (not to mention the strenuous physical requirements of the medical exams.)

[@alexismiller288]

A retired pilot came into my class in 2017 and told us that this was going to happen. I would've taken his advice to become a pilot if I didn't get so terribly nauseous from flying.

[@byronhenry6518]

I worked as a flight instructor for about a year and a half. I had many students who were nauseous at first, but just kept flying. They all got over it after about the 3rd lesson. Most of them went on to get their licenses.

[@coltonhoppe]

I'm a private pilot and I previously considered working for a commercial airline, I changed my career path after graduating college, (which I attended because bachelor degree's are mandatory to fly for a major airline) the demanding requirements of becoming a professional pilot(ATP, $150k, 2+years before getting to a regional), the low quality of life, and pay as a junior pilot are discouraging to any prospective pilot and the reason I decided flying a widebody isn't for me. I still love flying my little cessna 152 and encourage everyone to take an introductory flight. having the freedom to fly in general makes you feel on top of the world and being able to go places where and when you want can not be understated.

[@c.kirchhoefer]

Happy to say I'm a lucky one fulfilling my dream of becoming a pilot through Auburn University's flight program and blessed enough to have the military pay for most of it. There are many students here with the same dream, most of which going into debt. It's an unsteady industry with a lot of uncertainty and it's a shame it's not more accessible as I know there are many who aspire to fly someday, but lack the opportunity I have.

[@octavia1amazing]

Hi! May I ask how you got the military to pay for most of your training? I am currently looking into pilot training and trying to determine the most affordable option. Thank You :-)

[@c.kirchhoefer]

@@octavia1amazing I'm currently using my fathers transferred benefits (Chapter 33 G.I. Bill). If you aren't a dependent, I would look into scholarships for colleges with flight programs.

[@oseiassilvadossantos4709]

Not only in USA, literally everywhere in the world. In Brazil it cost more than 50.000 US dollar to get license. The initial salary is 800 to 1.200 dollars and can reach up to 3.500. it's ridiculously considering the amount of dedication plus money you have to put in to get such little reward

[@a1aviation612]

I've been in training since 2019, as of now i have attained all my ratings. (currently waiting on my check ride for my flight instructor License) i am currently 20 yrs old, but man was it a grind, definitely an adventure. so a message to all the future pilots out there, keep the grind going its definitely worth it!

[@davidsuttles101]

I’ve flown my whole life…high school to flight school for Army helicopters, civilian medical helicopters, airlines and now private jets. The money isn’t worth the lifestyle…gone most of the time, working 12-14 hrs per day and living out of a small suitcase. If you want to fly, just do it for fun! I walked away from commercial flying…

[@edjarrett3164]

The airlines painted themselves into this corner. Generationally, the boomers are all retiring so plans for replacement were poor or nonexistent. Meanwhile, the entry level pilots were drying up. The military was producing fewer pilots and GA pricing was putting entry level pilots out of scope. Finally, airlines are engaging to produce their own pilots because they can’t recruit anywhere else. This is 20 years in the making, so should not be a surprise to any airline. They’re problem now, is too few qualified crew to fly their aircraft. 26 year USAF aviator sad that leadership failed to act early.

[@michaelrmurphy2734]

Too much capacity, too few operators. So hopefully the airlines will get smaller. And that is not a bad thing.

[@PhycoKrusk]

The 1500 hour rule certainly didn't help things. If it hadn't been for that, they might've been able to pull something out of their hat.

[@bradcrosier1332]

They also destroyed the profession and drove many people out of it or away from it with bankruptcies designed specifically to undercut union contracts which provided well paying jobs with good quality of life. The lemmings in these programs have no idea what they are really in for.

[@edjarrett3164]

@@PhycoKrusk I kind of agree. However, commercial aviation has been extraordinarily safe with the 1500 hr rule. I think we can adjust this based on specific flying experience, but I think in general this bar is properly placed.

[@PhycoKrusk]

@@edjarrett3164 what was safety like before the rule? I'm not the most attentive, but I certainly didn't notice any appreciable difference in the rate of accidents before versus after.

[@johnpatrick1588]

There are all types of flying jobs from corporate, charter, fractional, government, air cargo, and passenger airlines. All with pros and cons and different quality of life issues.

[@wadahbottle]

We’ll push through it, the airlines are finally starting to feel the effects and incentive training

[@norris007]

Starting flight school in the spring! Its the best time to get in ya'll

[@norris007]

@Cecilia Cole I joined the military. Flight school is pretty much free. If you are interested P.M. me, dont let finances stop your dream.

[@bmingo2828]

⁠@@ceciliacole5098This is the most entitled and unpatriotic comment I’ve ever seen…

[@pilotclarke7149]

Well when you have almost a 80% student pilot dropout rate because lack of finances and getting denied loans, what do you expect

[@IsaMeNelson]

I am a pilot with IFR, Commercial and Multi-Engine ratings and 250 hours of flight time. I think the 1500-hour rule is what kills pilots' dreams. The only options to get a job are to either become a CFI, know someone, or do low-hour pilot jobs that pay nothing. I had to stop flying because no one wanted to hire me, no one gave me an opportunity and I still have a huge loan to pay off. I am working in a completely different field now, getting my Master's degree in Management information systems because I want to succeed in life. I wish I could have stayed in the industry and become the pilot I always dreamed of becoming, but no dream is big enough for the huge debt that you are left with. My dream was monetized.

[@frankprio4490]

I feel for you guys. I got my ratings back in the days of: $22/Hr Warriors. My family had an Aztec and a CE340, so i got real world IFR experience at 300 hrs. I still could not get into the airlines, back then they had plenty of ex military pilots. Went to Law school instead and flew part time corporate for the "fun". By the time the airlines were hiring the "B scale pilots" in the early 80s, i was a lawyer, so i passed. I always wanted to do it, never got there, but got to a lot a lot of nice beaches and ski areas as a corporate pilot.

[@doujinflip]

For too long airlines behaved like the tech sector: have someone else (public education and competitors) foot the bill for initial training and then scoop those workers. Companies need to do less paying passive shareholders and more investing in their own workforce by providing entry-level OJT.

[@dpeasehead]

@Doncarlo Agustino: BINGO!! And then the airlines who mint VPs by the dozens, and reward them like feudal nobility of old, want their workers trapped in concessionary "B" and "C" wage and benefit scales for most of their careers while dealing with rotating shifts and days off which have them working weekends and holidays for their greedy bosses and members of the surly publlc.

[@Aviator526]

Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s an easy solution to this. I agree training costs are a barrier to entry,but I just think the lifestyle of an Airline Pilot is tough to sell. Most people want a 9-5 job and weekends and holidays off. There’s been a trucker shortage longer then there’s been a pilot shortage for some of the same reasons. Most of the younger generations want to work from home as well, which is going to be a tough hurdle to overcome with getting more people in the cockpit.

[@steveo85]

Less than 3% of auto mechanics are female. Why isn’t anyone complaining?

[@bishopofeternity48]

​@@steveo85Only 1 in 4 homeless are women. We need to increase homeless women so we'll be equal.

[@tomsnelling4603]

As a 787 Captain, 45 year, 28,000+ hour pilot getting pushed out the door in less than a year due to arbitrary date on a calendar, I can’t say that I really have an answer . 1500 hour rule, really? When I got hired by my airline 38 years ago, I had over 3000 hours of both civilian and military time, plenty of 4 engine PIC time, both a bachelors and masters degree from a top 30 university and had to pass an astronaut physical. (Now illegal under The ADA). And that was the norm. We then started as 727 flight engineers making $1500 a month, living in Queens in an apartment with 8-10 other guys. (First civilian job before the airline paid $100 a week working 60 hours a week.) Like I said, I don’t have the answers, but times have sure changed! Hopefully for the better, good luck to all.

[@derek04151]

I make over $100k per year driving a truck delivering cars. I'd never spend that much money on training.

[@johnpatrick1588]

What I get a kick out of is the scam of qualifications. New hires with "X" qualifications are good enough to fly for the lower-paid regional airlines doing more cycles per day in those jets but not qualified to fly for the larger carriers. It is almost like wage theft by forcing pilots to the worse off opportunities.

[@csmoult]

In 1964 United, TWA and Eastern started hiring pilots with a high school diploma and a commercial pilot's license and instrument rating. At that time the hourly requirement was 200 hours, and that requirement was not raised until the 2009 Colgan crash which was not caused by inexperience. In 1966, I got out of the Air Force, where I had been an aircraft mechanic. I took flying lessons and had a commercial pilot's license, instrument rating and about 225 hours of pilot time in Cessna 150s. My total cost to qualify was about $2100 in 1960s dollars. I applied at United and TWA, which both had very extensive pilot employment tests. They wanted the youngest pilots they could find with the highest scores on these tests. The tests had very little to do with being a pilot. The tests had a lot of basic physics and mechanical aptitude questions, which determined your ability to rapidly learn the many complex systems of a transport aircraft. I was accepted by TWA in 1966 and was 24 years old Everybody started out as a flight engineer back then, but within one or two years we moved up to copilot. My transition from the Cessna 152 to my first transport aircraft, the 707, was no problem after 14 hours in a simulator and about 20 hours time with a check Capt. on regular line trips with passengers. The first leg I flew with passengers on the 707 I had about 250 hours total pilot time. Now, here is the caveat. With TWA, if the check Capt. didn't think you were competent enough for him to put his family on board with you at the controls, you did not pass, and you were terminated. They also would not let a copilot move up to Capt. unless they were sure he would be a good instructor for the copilot's and not let the copilot get into trouble he couldn't handle. This worked out very well and TWA went for many years with no accidents attributable to pilot error. I had a fantastic 35 year career as an airline pilot and I highly recommend it. The FAA did not want to increase the hours requirement after the Albany crash, but after two years of fending off the politicians, they gave in and raised the requirement. The crash was caused by the captain and the copilot breaking the rule that does not allow any non-germane communication below 10,000 feet. They were having a personal discussion while they were flying a very demanding non-precision approach. The captain was not paying attention to his airspeed and when the airplane started to stall he was startled and instead of putting on full power, he pulled back on the yoke and the airplane stalled and rolled over on its back and crashed. If they had both been inexperienced but qualified in the aircraft, they would have been so attentive to the approach they were flying that the accident could never have happened. I know this from my own experience. Whenever I was checking out in a new airplane, I was totally concentrating on flying the airplane. The most dangerous period for many pilots is after they've been on an airplane for about a year, and they are relaxed, thinking they have it nailed. I think the only answer to this problem is to somehow convince the FAA and the politicians to move the hourly requirement back to 200 hours. I had a fantastic 35- year career as an airline pilot, and I highly recommend it. If anybody has any questions, I would be happy to answer them.

[@StabilizedBulkHead_00]

I want to ask you a question from the point of the view of the minority. However, it could be a boresome question. That video says only "6 percents of US pilot are people of color" So I was wondering dose color really matter getting jobs in commercial pilots in the US?

[@dariosunseri5326]

Hey, what would you say is the best bet as a Canadian pilot in training? Would you say it’s worth it to try and get a job commuting into the states out of school? Or should I just try and get my instructor ratings to build hours that way?

[@johnames6430]

That's not going to be the case anymore as they make a point of it to recruit based on race and gender rather than merit. Let's see how this plays out in 10yrs. 🤦‍♂Most of the women they are gifting the money to will quit before they hit 30, I can guarantee you that. Women are not stupid like men and won't slave themselves while away from their family in poor working conditions with lack of sleep.

[@csmoult]

​@@StabilizedBulkHead_00 No, color has never been a factor from the standpoint of bias or qualification. In the 90s, women sued the major airlines for bias and won, immediately after that, there was a huge increase in low time, low experience female new hires. My best guess is that there has simply been a lack of interest in the career by people of color.

[@csmoult]

@@StabilizedBulkHead_00 No, color has never been a factor from the standpoint of bias or qualification. In the 90s, women sued the major airlines for bias and won, immediately after that, there was a huge increase in low time, low experience female new hires. My best guess is that there has simply been a lack of interest in the career by people of color.

[@hp8261]

The only way to fix the issue is to lower costs of flight training that's the real issue. They create steps and guidelines and plans but the real issue is it's too expensive. For me at age 46 I have yet to start flight training I just can't afford it .

[@hp8261]

@@YBehri they can but they will not. It's a business.

[@gnsgml11]

Got my commercial pilots licence last year. Wanted to become an instructor after but no one was hiring and said they couldn't hire me after the course

[@PhilMcGowan]

This video did not go back in history nearly enough to really explain why we now have a pilot shortage. The issue really began 15-20 years ago with the rise of major carriers relying on regional airlines to cover their shorter routes and creating a system with many issues. In regards to pilot training, if you think it's rough now to start your journey to becoming an airline pilot, look at salaries from 15-20 years ago. I was considering this path in high school (graduated 2006) and had some friends start to pursue a career as an airline pilot. They soon learned that even after finishing a 4 year aviation degree, where you save costs by earning at least your commercial certificate with an instrument rating along with a 4 year degree, you then go on to the still present period of earning your 1500 hours doing very low paying jobs. Even CFIs aren't paid that well and that's probably the best commercial job you can get as a pilot before qualifying for an ATP. After you earn those 1500 hours, you then got to the real problem the airlines created. 15-20 years ago when you got hired at a regional, you were looking at maybe 20-30K per year. This is AFTER earning a 4 year degree and paying 65-100K on your flight training whilst earning barely above minimum wage as a CFI, banner tower, parachute pilot, etc. On top of that, because the major airlines would only pay regional airlines for completed flights, the regionals would push pilots to often fly in unsafe conditions. Try to call in sick? You get "hey are you really that sick? We really need you to fly this route because we earn nothing if this flight is completed so buck up and come to work." All of these factors led many people to walk away from the long, arduous, and very low paying path to finally getting a slot as a first officer at a major. It appears the airlines are finally improving things and the regionals are not nearly as bad to work for as they used to be but this is a problem that has been brewing in the airline industry for a couple of decades. I remember hearing about an impending pilot shortage well before COVID hit and the airlines just refused to acknowledge it was a problem. They finally are now and it's too late to correct the issue before it gets worse.

[@een_schildpad]

As someone who flew a regional from 2006 to 2012, I think you hit the nail on the head 💯 I got tired of languishing in a low paying regional FO position for a company that just saw me as a commodity and so I switched careers (and I'm happy I did now). Now I make more than I would have been and I work remote, so no more life on the road ❤️

[@TrapKingz.]

My biggest dream ever since I was a kid was to fly commercial aircraft and become a pilot. Sadly, after doing my research I stumbled across the price for school, the experience needed and all of the risks involved. I had to turn down my dreams and got into Finance and work in a happy place now with my Finance degree. I still find myself amused and learn things about aviation along the way. Hopefully someday I’ll decide to leave the world of Finance and get back into Aviation!!

[@justinparadis7036]

One of my flight instructors was an accountant for several years. He decided to start flight training and 4 years later the dude is now at the airlines

[@TrapKingz.]

@@justinparadis7036 hell yeah thats the way to go!

[@brandonj5847]

That was my dream since I was little too, and cost was my deterrent. Now, I think my new life goal is to be able to buy my own Cirrus and get a PPL. Maybe someday!

[@essarahimi9122]

You can finance the school for you and they won’t charge a penny until you in a airline there’s a lot of opportunities you just had to did your research with your heart not just the brain.

[@andrewkuebler4335]

Let's be honest we all know why this happened. Putting short term gain over long term sustainability.

[@coreytungate2502]

It’s funny because it’s 80k-100k if you have that money out of pocket (which who would) it’s more over 300k when you add up all the expenses and the interest from the loaning company. So maybe that’s the biggest reason no one wants to get into the career and get the short end of making 50k a year from airlines starting out. Not a good mix

[@muxthechamp]

Seriously? I finished my flight training in 2011. That time there we so many pilots that nobody from my class could get a job. It took most of them 5-6 years before they even got a job. In that time they did some flying in flight clubs $$$, they had to validate their licences every year $$$ Keep up their medical licence $$$. Just to keep my licence valid was costing me around 6000$ per year. I had an engineering degree before, that was my luck and found a good job outside the industry. After 4 years of applying for sh*tty pilot jobs that pay nothing and demand everything, I stopped and started to focus on my new career. When people ask me now if I regret ever going to flight school, I say no. I learned a lot and met great people. I also respond that I am not flying anywhere anymore, I get flown there. Which is much more comfortable. :) The industry brought all these problems on themselves.

[@methanesprings4085]

Extremely accurate information sir. Yep

[@Kalashniky]

Cost of flight training, constantly moving goalposts, lack of pay and poor quality of life.

[@TikkaQrow]

Being a pilot has been a dream of mine since I was 5. It's PROHIBITIVELY expensive to get a commercial pilot's license. You're born into it, your parents are wealthy, or you get lucky serving in a military branch that slides you into the role. (don't join any military if you can help it, there's a VERY solid chance you'll die in a desert for some wealthy man's pocketbook) Predatory loans are not an answer to this issue. Schooling itself just needs to be more affordable, and more accessable.

[@KloseDatBaxkdoor]

Most people in the military arent even sent into warzone’s in their career while in the military. And even less dies

[@keith5790]

I wanted to be a pilot but gave up knowing the expenses. I live in Japan but I guess the story is the same worldwide

[@slowjazz5932]

Time to build some high-speed rails. It's better for the planet and will make the pilot shortage problem much less of a problem.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

Bravo. It's safer too. We should invite China to come to the USA to build a passenger rail system

[@rudagata2134]

Well I'm sure China can build the high speed rail system in 1 year rather than 20-30 years U.S will take lol 😆

[@JohnZsAviation]

Hey as an Ispireing pilot I know I won't have to worry about getting a job.

[@jve89]

Experienced first officer from Europe here. I would love coming to work in the US, but the borders are only open for people who bring absolutely nothing to the country.

[@darylb5564]

This was easily predictable 12 or so years ago. It’s also easy to predict it’s going to get worse.

[@SuperWine7]

Just make a national railway system that actually works. Nowadays moving in Europe is faster by train than by airplane (if you include checkin time and travel to reach the airport and from the airport to your destination), whereas trains usually leave you at the city center (or very close to it) for the same amount of time and half the stress...

[@SuperWine7]

Just reach the 2000s and stop living in the 80s...

[@dknowles60]

that is Because Europe is small

[@Luke117-r2x]

As a pilot, the issue is simple really. The barrier to entry is SO HIGH. I’m going to a Delta sponsored school to become an airline pilot. I’ve already been flying for 5 years, I have my instrument rating, and I’m working on my commercial certificate. You need a whopping 1500 hours of PIC time if you want to even consider applying for an airline. Not only that, but the cost of flight school and a college degree can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Without good incentive programs on a large scale, I honestly don’t believe airlines are going to be sustainable going forward. And, while most airlines now have small pipeline programs in place, they’re just not doing enough. We’re probably going to see even more automation in the cockpit, not because of economic and financial reasons but because there simply aren’t enough pilots to fill the huge gap. As of last week, Delta Air Lines expects to hire over 8,000 pilots in the next decade as their older pilots retire (Delta News Hub website). That’s more than 2 pilots every single day for the next 10 years. The amount of money and time that needs to be invested for a group of that size is ridiculous. If every pilot in that group averages about $100,000 in training costs and 1,250 hours of flight time, the total cost of training will be $800,000,000 and the total training time will be 10,000,000 flight hours. It’s just a lot. And the reason I used 1,250 instead of the standard 1,500 is because accredited institutions offer training that reduces the time requirement for the airlines, in some cases down to 1,000 hours. But the number of students who can afford to pay for and attend those universities is quite low, and that’s not a typical case. Anyways, if you made it this far, let me know your thoughts.

[@Braulissimo351]

I agree with you, I’m currently working on my instrument rating and wondering if it’s still worth it. This shortage and advanced technology could mean further automation

[@kene8895]

Even at the start with the Private Pilot level it is just way too expensive, period, and that's a shame!

[@yuentsang6903]

The pilot that was involved in that particular crash that caused the change in the number of hours had more than 1,500 that is required to fly.

[@jonr2859]

When I was a college freshman 24 years ago I met a few people that really really wanted to be pilots, however, even back then the training was insanely expensive and it was virtually impossible to get a job with the airlines because there were too many baby boomer aged pilots that had seniority with their unions. So they majored in business instead 😐

[@wadahbottle]

Why not both?

[@PhycoKrusk]

That actually kind of explains a lot about how we got to where we are right now, if you think about it

[@DrSeuss-nv9hw]

@@PhycoKrusk ...Great reply.

[@johnpatrick1588]

In Europe and elsewhere they have been using an ab initio system where pilots are trained from zero flight time to about 300 hours. It is done in a structured program lasting 18 months to two years and graduate with a multi-crew license with a type rating in an airliner like the A320 depending on the airline they will be going to. In pre-covid, it cost about EU$100,000. Unlike the American way burning holes in the sky or flight instructing building flight time, the EU academy way is to train in airline operational procedures including getting jet time training in business jets.

[@waltervila33]

Mate you’ve said it that’s Europe a continent and a culture that’s miles apart from the ignorance and ineptitude America suffers from

[@jonasbaine3538]

Can Americans train in Europe ? I have seen tons of Chinese flight students at a US flight school

[@jsurfin1]

@@jonasbaine3538 Sure but if you think flight training is cheaper in Europe, you're in for a big shock.

[@joshuacaranci5967]

@@jonasbaine3538 it doesn't even matter though, because when you come back to America you come back to the FAA rules of the 1500 hours

[@jonasbaine3538]

@@joshuacaranci5967 oh right. Damn. Some aviation colleges result in a 1000hour requirement.

[@seanbennett77]

Don’t forget many pilots left because if mandated and forced vaccination. I personally know three captains with 25+ years experience who retired early because of that.

[@MrMountainMan]

20 years ago I wanted to be a pilot so badly; graduate with my college degree, and venture to get an ATP the civilian route. I was writing checks for hours in a seat I could not afford. Then 9/11 happened and everything related to small aircraft was grounded for an extended period of time. Beyond that during the downturn in the airline industry, unless you already had 25 years experience flying, the outlook was meek and lesser experienced pilots were being laid off. For a civilian pilot trying to make way at that time was beyond going up Mt. Everest. So ironic compared to today with all the opportunities outlined, because had I been in this setup I'd probably be a pilot.

[@greentruth89]

A year to 18months who in the hell have that much time. Not to mention another few months for them to decide if you're going to get your license. I think the requirements for a commercial license of any are getting out of hand these days

[@millionsofmarks]

See, people like her are the reason why the country has a huge outstanding student loans. She already graduated with a degree in child development and then decided not to be a teacher but a pilot instead. And now, she have to take another student loan for that 🤦‍♂️

[@ljthirtyfiver]

Waste of damn time I damn turned the video off after I saw that . These kids need to stop letting people force them into garbage degrees .

[@Sebastian-jo7bn]

So? Stop whining. Are you going to blame her for changing her mind as many do? Especially considering that teachers make no money and the government not willing to put more money in education, rather pour it into prisons and military? You can't be this cognitively underdeveloped, right?

[@cuzinclotty7052]

6% blacks 5.6% women there u go that’s the shortage right there plus all the other BS

[@willblack8575]

no thx

[@BenKlassen1]

White man's fault, I assume? Conspiracy to undermine inherent equality of all hominids?

[@hodinipoof150]

Don't over work the current pilots and quit over booking available seats. Flying will then become more safe then they already are.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

I like the more safe part

[@danzodamanzo8192]

I trained in 2000. The job market was slow and time to get into the airlines was over 10 years. I made less than $25k, was away 50% of the month. I went into tech/logistics and can fly for fun and earn over $130k, working from home. The working from home opportunities are going to take talent that has the capabilities and attributes to be pilots away from the aviation industry as new generation chase after work/life balance that aviation lacks. And the 1500 hour rule is killing the pipeline.

[@alexpainter4960]

God bless her. Safe travels ladies

[@petrucci973]

COVID happened and most of us experienced pilots are still unemployed. Few thousand hours on the Airbus yet still jobless because of the ridiculous requirements some airlines world wide out of the US/EU have implemented in terms of recency of 12 months. Reason for pilot shortage in the US is because only certain nationalities/passport holders are eligible for E3B NIW visa and a valid FAA license with class I medical. Only if a temporary visa is issued for other nationalities that’s renewed yearly with an FAA validation under the foreign license/aircraft rating held for the very much needed pilot are given, this shortage isn’t going to be an issue in no time.

[@petrucci973]

@@climbmaintain I'm not European snowflake. You need to get back to school and learn geography, history and most importantly about the world. Not sure how you will fly planes one day, you're not fit.

[@steveo85]

Woah, that 5’ booster seat girl that’s going to fly for Alaska Airlines isn’t even American and receives substantial financial assistance? I wish we would hire people from this country for these jobs.

[@parsahasselhoff7986]

Increasing supply is part of the solution, but we can also reduce demand for pilots by investing a bit more in trains.

[@jonasbaine3538]

Wishful thinking

[@jamessayre865]

That’s what you get for treating regional airline pilots like garbage for decades causing so many people to lose interest in the industry due to the path you had to endure with no guarantee of a mainline job. It’s getting better but it was so bad for so long that now you have a huge gap in the pipeline.

[@irwinsaltzman979]

The airline companies took their profit and bought stock back. They did not invest it in the company. (Training of new pilots) Expected shortage of pilots was well known for many years.

[@hu6284]

The industry is decimated, and good pilots work in the east now, better pay/vacation time, early retirements, shutdown of schools during the pandemic, etc.

[@jacksonbuxton3175]

Solution: cut the hours required to be a fo at the regionals to 250.

[@Robert-uo6qi]

Not at all, Pay was the issue why I quite as a Regional FO..

[@Hedgeflexlfz]

No they would be a disaster

[@jonasbaine3538]

@@Robert-uo6qi what was your salary? What you doing now?

[@Robert-uo6qi]

@@jonasbaine3538 $35K GROSS, Horrible Expensive benefits.. Loved to fly -121, I worked with Great People… I’ve moved on from all that..

[@lauralafauve5520]

Free public college would help.

[@codyjmathis]

Hardly, since major airlines are dropping the college requirement already. If Delta Airlines can drop their college requirement, then I would say “free” college has no place here.

[@lauralafauve5520]

@@codyjmathis"freè college would have helped keep us from getting here. I'm not sure I trust the airline industries to monitor themselves. They could train pilots from a to z. But they've been known to over schedule their personnel. ALL positions are understaffed? Sounds like bad management to me. Baggage handlers need strong backs, good pay and reasonable schedules and respect. If the airlines can't scare up any "strong backs" and keèp them, it's a management/corporate attitude problem. That's going to poison any training program they implement.

[@0226memo]

Its not really a pilot shortage like the media says it is. Its a shortage of Captains. Right now there is too many First Officers, not enough Captains. And if the FO's take the promotion to Capt, they just lost all of that seniority they worked so hard to get. So they'll start back at the bottom possibly losing their base of preference and sometimes they'll go back to reserve all together depending on company. So now the Airlines are slowing their hiring and pushing their class dates way far out. So yet again it's becoming impossible for new commercial pilot's to get a job. Its a huge domino effect. And they always reference the Colgan Air accident as to why the FAA ( mostly Congress ) wants 1500 hours to get your ATP, they said the flight crew didn't have enough experience/hours. But what most do not know is the two pilot's each had over the 1500 rule. Not to mention we're the only country that requires those hours. Just because you can fly a Cessna for 1500 hours does not mean you're ready for the Airline transition. They need to revamp the whole system if they want to fix this issue anytime soon.

[@d.n.3652]

It’s about 10k to get each certificate and rating. Expect around 40k just to get your private, instrument rating, commercial, and multi-engine