Product Review: Winwing F/A-18 Super Libra/Taurus HOTAS (vid 2 of 2)

[@JonesingUSAF]

I love that they used braided shielded usb cables. The little details like that really set this system apart from others.

[@KiltedPython223]

I've been back and forth between this and the thrustmaster warthog. I think I'm sold on the winwing. Great review!

[@miloa5833]

Your review was excellent! convinces me enough to go out and purchase this hardware as I am not a diehard sim rigger, but this looks to be just in my alley for flight sim games, and some space games!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Hello again, the DCS patch that landed 01/28/21, included binds for the Combat Ready Panel's ECM Rotary Switch!! Hell Yes!! Now let's change those other "toggle" switches ED.

[@grimreapers]

good :)

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Hey folks, regarding the Winwing Throttle comm-switch I squawked in the review. They sent me a replacement and it works perfectly.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@Drum Gunner I owned the TM Warthog HOTAS first. Went to the Virpil CM2 throttle and stick next. In my opinion, everything in the WW throttle is metal construction and feels solid in every way. The one comm switch I had issue with, was replaced, and the new one works great. The Startup Panel and the long-throw of the throttle is superior to Virpils and I believe is a better value. Hope that helps.

[@VirusVanquisher]

While watching this review, one word replayed in my mind..."Excellence." This review is as close to perfect as one can get, thank you.

[@MattWagner]

Good stuff guys! I have the same setup here and very impressed with kit. Winwing did a bang up job. I do though use a couple Monstertech desk mounts.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Matt, I think so also and I enjoyed watching your video as well. I'm going to try bolting my flimsy desk to the wall first and will reevaluate afterward.

[@Syst3m6]

I've got the Monstertech mounts and they're a step above the rest.

[@MattWagner]

@@wildbillkelso2083. Indeed. My only knock on this kit is the included mounting solution.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@MattWagner It is massive. I can't find your video to see your setup again. Can't remember if you have the Hornet panels installed. Would it be a bother for you to send a URL that video?

[@gr-skil]

@Constructionsimulator3 FAN I will reply, you seem to spend alot of your time on KZbin complaining about everyone and everything. If this all offends you so much, just go away and do something/anything else. Its a win win, we don't have to put up with your whittering nonsense and you might be a bit happier!!!

[@Mark_Point]

For increased immersion, use the mouse and change that flat panel for VR!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

When VR clarity catches up to my flat panel, I will consider it . . . again. I tried two already and was unimpressed. My G2 just arrived and I'll give that a go soon.

[@Mark_Point]

@@wildbillkelso2083 Good luck. I didn't like the G2, preferred my old rift. But now happy with a quest 2. I just couldn't go back to 2D. I cab sacrifice a sense of height, depth, scale and spatial awareness for a few graphics. But each to thier own!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@Mark_Point Thanks Dave. I'm in the middle of a 2nd rig-build atm. It's gonna be a helo-focused rig with the G2. Love my wife, she suggested it after hearing me cuss and yell about tearing down, setting up/binding the review kits. Hoping the depth of field in VR will make the helo ops a bit more fun.

[@Jinx19766]

I just ordered mine today with the stick extension thanks to you guys and GS.

[@grimreapers]

Enjoy

[@Bunyiip]

Why can't everything in life be as good as this review?

[@Syst3m6]

You can download pre-configured bindings from the Simapp application. This should save a significant amount of time when setting up. I was up and flying in minutes after doing this.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Wow, I didn't know that. I'll look into it. Thanks Ryan.

[@Syst3m6]

@@wildbillkelso2083 i think its on the last tab of the software at the bottom. You can keep your own settings in the cloud or download pre-configured ones. I downloaded the ones from WinWing and everything was mapped perfectly. Only one i had issues with was the grip/stick. Some of the things were completely off and i wonder if they changed the button order/numbers after they created that initial file. I set mine up similar to how i had my Warthog, but the added bonus of the 5 way recce switch instead of the 3 way i had on the F-18 grip. I prefer the feel of the Thrustmaster grip to the WinWing one, but i looooove the WW setup soo much better overall. The Warthog stick is trash compared to this. I was finally able to refuel midflight. I had serious issues doing this w/the Warthog even with an 8 inch extension on it.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@Syst3m6 Nice, thanks Ryan, I'll check it out. AAR is my acid test for smoothness. I'm one of those weirdo's that like it and practice often. We've done a number of night tanker missions. Very rewarding. At setup, the first thing I did was tanked the Hornet and Viper on one of our servers. That's when I fell in love with it. Thanks for the info buddy.

[@Nightdare]

I don't like the combined friction/axis lever in the Taurus I'd prefer that to be an actual axis, and the friction set by a screw in the base somewhere else If/When they decide to split those, I'm saving up for one

[@DrewDaBear]

Does anyone know where I can find the dimensions for the Super Libra Taurus throttle body? I'm looking for a small shelf or table to place under it, instead of attaching to the desk.

[@FlightSimMuseum]

Nice review, thanks. I just ordered the Combat Ready and the Take Off panels, so, looking forward to that!

[@JDuBz815]

Great review. Can you please do a video on that MFD screen setup if you haven't already? That looks nice. Thanks!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

I may, but I'm up to my eyeballs until mid February. In the meantime, you could google "thrustmaster cougar, DCS viewport, JSGME and OVGME software. There several good tutorials on the subject.

[@Fred-rv2tu]

A review of a product that sponsors your Channel! That's journalistic integrity.

[@grimreapers]

lol fair enough!

[@EFFEZE]

@Constructionsimulator3 FAN you know how opinions work don't you mate? This is only ever his opinion and wether it's swayed or not is irrelevant. Him saying it's amazing dosnt make it factually amazing. You seem a bit butthurt cos someone else is getting expensive swag for free.

[@gr-skil]

Another excellent review Kelso, I hope Winwing have upped their production to meet the demand your review will bring this time!! 🤣

[@ionator2000ist]

(ito21) Oh im jealous of this setup and wish I could do so

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you. I believe they've increased their assembly staff by 3-4 times since the panels review so hopefully they can keep up.

[@firing_pin9971]

Nice review. Eyeing your guitar pedals in the background tho :)

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Firing_Pin.

[@PappaBear_yt]

+1

[@NaughtyNimitz]

I am going to be honest: your setup looks just awesome and would have been something I would have tried to imitate. I already bought the Thrustmaster gear (Warthog set + Pendular Rudder) and was thinking of buying more control and or display panels. But then I discovered something more invigorating: the Oculus Quest 2 i bought for my son is connectable to my PC, recognized by DCS and is one of the first VR goggles I have experienced that is truely immersive: the graphics are very high-res, there's no shutterdoor effect and the set is light and comfy to wear with just one USB-C cable sticking out. Together with a good GFX card , VoiceAttack-software to use my voice to do tasks one would need a keyboard for (or if you want , use the controllers to use the control panels in VR) , I am able to keep my hands on the Throttle and Stick (with the occasional blind feel and flip of switches on the Throttle-base) and yet I can fully control my aircraft, look around, look backwards and (if the canopy is open) even peek outside ... Okay, i admit it is funny to see me working the F/A-18 while looking around and saying "LEFT OSB 7" or "LANDING BAR TOGGLE" or "FLYBY VIEW" or even shout "EJECT EJECT EJECT" (just for shits and giggles). But I think "this is the way", in a sense that the future will bring even better VR (no cables, even more resolution,...) , perhaps smarter gloves to wear that exclude fumbling with the controllers, and so on... What do you guys think?

[@Nightdare]

Just a noob here learning the F-14 I use VA to command Jester and groundcrew

[@SKULLONE1973]

It would be also nice a full video on how to install it and drivers and explained uses i have the x56 the same cap has his or used to and im thinking of upgrading to the winwing it looks awsome good video take care.

[@notdolandark]

What’s the name of those screen panels

[@neonsamurai1348]

www.thrustmaster.com/products/mfd-cougar-pack He just stuck them on top of an old screen so he could have full video mfd's. You can also get individual screens (and mounts) that the MFD's screw into from www.cubesim.com.cn/

[@n25992]

If I plan to use it In VR only do you still recommend this setup or it s no use ?

[@grimreapers]

I don't see why not.

[@n25992]

@@grimreapers since I won’t be able to see the switches while using the VR headset . How can I control them ?

[@JediMasterMok]

I'd also like to know how difficult it is to use all of the switches, knobs, etc. with a VR headset on..

[@hostettervideos]

Much more enjoyable review Kelso! Cheers! I hope you had fun with creating this!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Captain. It was both fun and challenging, as I've only done two so far.

[@hostettervideos]

@@wildbillkelso2083 can't wait to see more!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@hostettervideos Me too. :)

[@BlueBaron3339]

Outstanding review! Being a Warbird guy, that stick is quite alluring but they're out of stock until later this month...just enough time to prevent an impulse purchase, thank goodness 😉

[@landonjernigan6502]

Which one do you think is better, the Orion throttle or super Taurus throttle?

[@grimreapers]

Tauras as long as you like a big throttle throw.

[@captainkoloth1631]

What's your main monitor? I love that screen

[@grimreapers]

Asus 24" 4k I think

[@captainkoloth1631]

@@grimreapers thanks! Somehow it looks even bigger than that. Maybe it's the curvature.

[@johnressler18]

Would the Virpil 200mm curved extension work with this? I don't know if the threads would match.

[@grimreapers]

Unknown sorry.

[@johnressler18]

@@grimreapers No problem. Noticed Kelso had a virpil flight stick.

[@imaner76]

Cheers Kelso. Great coverage of the unit.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Imaner, I appreciate that man. :)

[@MrGameMeister]

"F-18 Viper Throttle Attachment"? Please explain? :)

[@danspragens4935]

Intended to say F-16 Viper, perhaps? That's my supposition.

[@MrGameMeister]

@@danspragens4935 I’m hoping that’s the case 😁

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Another imperfect review!! Sorry, yes, I meant to say F-16 Viper. Oops!

[@MrGameMeister]

@@wildbillkelso2083 don’t sweat it. Good review 🙂

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@MrGameMeister Thanks man,

[@fjb5894]

Once Winwing sells you the product, you never hear back from them. I complained about several issues and NEVER heard back. Stay clear...

[@markitosnismo6204]

Amazing, but the products are out of sale :((

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Unfortunately they had a short COVID shutdown, but they'll be back to full speed soon.

[@sssamsamsam9]

@grimreapers - what do you now use for trackIR zoom on the Winwing? thx

[@grimreapers]

Still deciding

[@sssamsamsam9]

@@grimreapers Any updates? re TrackIR zoom? thx

[@wildbillkelso2083]

I use the spring loaded up/down switch on the right throttle. I put my radar elevation control on the up/down of the 5-way switch, just below the top one.

[@tomatoman3706]

do you think this would be okay to pair with a vkb mcg 3 ultimate and thrustmaster tpr pedals? im set on the other 2 options i just dont know what throttle to go with. i was debating between this, virple or possibly the upcoming vkb throttle, any help would be much appreciated.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Well I totally blew the F-14A example in my rant, as ED was not involved, . . . I'll send them an apology for that, . . . but the switchology and finishing the module comment still applies. Oh, at the end, I meant to say F-16 Viper, not F-18. Oops

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@Melkor54 I think so, I went from warthog to virpil because I didn't like the stickiness of it's controls after a year. The Winwing HOTAS came out about a week after the virpill kit arrived. When Microsoft 2020 came out, HOTAS system prices skyrocketed. So yeah, now that the price difference has gotten closer, this system is a better overall value.

[@mzaite]

It's a shame because all of the controls are "in there" and can be accessed through DCS Bios, but the simple lua file that makes the controls assignment menu just needs to be appended. Every Update. It's something that would take an Intern at ED a day to do right, and something most power users already learned to do onED's own forum and reddit. and example: www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/6egy5l/warthog_toggle_switches_off_position/

[@wildbillkelso2083]

​@@mzaite Michael, I see an ED contract assignment in your future. :) Actualy had some PM's with ED today, and they thought the switchology was a valid argument. Dunno, but it kinda sounds promising.

[@npatrcevic]

Does a HOTAS like this make any sense in VR (the throttle base especially) or would you rather go for something with a 5way modifier instead?

[@grimreapers]

I can't answer as I'm not VR. Any VR guys can answer?

[@hralch1234]

Great review, thank you. I liked the pro-objective style (no ambient music, etc)

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Rolando.

[@Husker5454]

That is the most insane setup i have ever seen . You might aswell just have an f18 hhaha

[@wildbillkelso2083]

I've seen some pretty cool F-18 full sim pits. The thing about hobbies . . . you can always throw more money at them. :)

[@wileng41]

you have to check out the warthog project its just... insane

[@Husker5454]

@@wileng41 oh ye i seen it its really nice . Theres also a full F18 cockpit someone made

[@steveman1982]

@@wildbillkelso2083 Hobbies that don't cost any money, are merely interests ;)

[@qiyuxuan9437]

@@wildbillkelso2083 Yeah, thats true, but this is probably the most insane 1000$ setup without diy by yourself.

[@maciekhirsz6807]

Milion buttons and axis but still no joystick with decent force feedback

[@NormGrassfield]

You realize the f18 is fly by wire and therefore has no feedback?

[@rogergmorris]

Sadly, this product, is now no longer being manufactured, and on their official supplier website for UK, it is described as 'end-of-life'...

[@cz287cj]

Whats the price for the whole set. Only for f18?

[@cz287cj]

Its up to the company to decide how much they want to give away. Its not even your money anyway unless u own the company.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Hello Lee, the price of the reviewed set is $947.75 USD. Like all HOTAS systems, this one can be bound to any aircraft module's control system.

[@Lcr34]

@Constructionsimulator3 FAN Some car manufacturer give away CARS as lucky draw price, not to mention electric appliances manufacturer did the same. Your point being?

[@Pablo668]

Incredible set up, great review.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Pablo.

[@mikkihintikka7273]

should i go for vr or this kind of setup?

[@mikkihintikka7273]

and money isnt a factor. i can afford xtal vr headset

[@grimreapers]

Yeh most people prefer VR

[@MarksGuitarLounge]

Congratulations on the new gear and thank you for the content, Love to see the Guitar Gear off to the side Lol Best of Luck and Gaming Fun. I'm Happy for you. Rock On..Happy Landings.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Mark.

[@lordbaltimore8246]

I like it but I believe I’ll just order an actual F/A-18 it’s a lot cheaper.

[@Bear-dt6ip]

how do you hook up the winwing software to DCS?

[@grimreapers]

Everything done automatically for me. I didn't have to do anything.

[@ChrisMokkel]

Very nice video!

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Mark.

[@PDYALL]

Wow just wow what a great setup

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Mark.

[@Obi-Chan-Jabroni]

The f18 is not going to have full switchology until the u.s air force declassifies how systems work which is 10-20 years away.

[@fortdriver]

Love your videos

[@fortdriver]

My favourite videos are when you test Aircraft durability

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Fortdriver.

[@bearcatracing007]

What a wicked set-up. Great review.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you BearCat.

[@JakusJacobsen]

I'm sure its OK but being a replica means it just doesn't have enough buttons for other modules on the throttle or the stick. Not being able to use it with my existing TM and Virpil sticks is also a turn off. If they made a throttle with more buttons on the handle I would probably buy it. Comparing this to desktop setups is a bit silly. This seems to really need a full rig to support it and as much as I want one, the space it would take up is prohibitive.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

The comparisons I made were what I've flown, and could measure, the TM Warthog and Virpil HOTAS. Yeah, it does require more room and a solid desk. I ended up bolting my desk to wall studs. "Spackle is cheap" and my hobby takes precedent over a future repainting of my office :).

[@jemimus]

Excellent review

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Jemimus.

[@PappaBear_yt]

Like for review and for BOSS pedals. 😁

[@wildbillkelso2083]

Thank you Bear.

[@Gambler1-1]

You should fly in vr

[@wildbillkelso2083]

I tried that with the Rift, then the Valve Index. Didn't like the resolution or the reduced dogfighting/adversary spotting. Plus, I'm a button pusher . . . I like the tactile feedback.

[@rodriquezivey2023]

Box 📦 box 📦 box 📦

[@tenevas666]

Je comprends pas pourquoi acheter une manette de gaz aussi onéreuse et avoir un stick assez banal finalement meme si un stick de bonne qualité, et ne pas plutôt opter pour une manette gaz lambdas, et un véritable stick avec retour de force comme certaine marque proposent....car pour moi c'est comme cela que tu te rapproche au mieux de la simulation en jet de chasse, un stick avec retour de force change vraiment tout ...la manette gaz dans la video n'est pas vraiment nécessaire je pense

[@bennperkins4006]

What does ED have to do with the F-14A development? Nothing. The review is great, and you sound very knowledgable, but you lose some credibility, as does the whole of GR with little information hiccups like that. They plague GR videos constantly.

[@outonroad]

Totally agree. ED have not expended any time on the F14-A. Get your facts straight before you rant.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

I agree, totally blew that portion of the rant. Sent an apology to ED and penned a similar apology in a separate comment. Will have that apology pinned to the top of comments later today. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@wildbillkelso2083]

@@outonroad I agree, totally blew that portion of the rant. Sent an apology to ED and penned a similar apology in a separate comment. Will have that apology pinned to the top of comments later today. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@outonroad]

@@wildbillkelso2083 No probs buddy.

[@EFFEZE]

@@wildbillkelso2083 Where's the pinned apology for shitting on a company for nothing?

[@rodriquezivey2023]

Box 📦

[@rodriquezivey2023]

Rockivey

[@tjbrunner301]

So how can you do an honest no bullshit review of a product when you are sponsored by the manufacture?