PROJECT CYBERSYN

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Project Cybersyn tells the story of applied cybernetics in early 1970s Chile during the Allende Presidency and evaluates its legacy, value and potential.
Translations of this video are welcome.
Source material: mitpress.mit.e...
Music: YMO - Light in Darkness

[@stormyprawn]

Just imagine what we could do with the technology of 2021. I've only just learned of project cybersyn today and its fascinating.

[@mbkubacki]

Look around, they are doing it right now. Did you read about Cyberfolk part of the project? This is how they control us. Well done.

[@masterofreality926]

@@mbkubacki Cyberfolk are songs made for Russian short film named Cyberfarm. And this video is about effective control of planned economy, probably whole globe will come to it. Not possible to just continue to waste resources.

[@mrdoormat6809]

@@mbkubacki you realize that cyberfolk is about direct democratic participation from the masses itself throught cyber interface to give direct feedback to goverment in real time?

[@glowfly]

or imagine Amazon with built-in biofeedback from workers ... Amazon sans suffering

[@TheJayman213]

It's so sad. When you're up against the world's richest corporations and the governments they fund, you're forced to choose between compromising your vision and flat-out defeat.

[@conveyor2]

Yes comrade

[@establishmentdisliker372]

the revolution lives on forever in the hearts of all working people

[@DarkAngelEU]

No. Allende could have survived this coup if he wasn't so stubborn. If he had fled the country, he would be considered the real president by many while Pinochet took control. This way, Chile could have persevered and drawn power out of his speeches and diplomatic struggle from abroad to keep the socialist dream alive. The problem with these online documentaries is that they focus too much on the US influence on Chile's political discourse. Allende was heavily praised by the UN, by the Eu, he was a favorite among European foreign ministers because at that time Europe was also trying to find a balance between socialism and neoliberalism. Allende would have found many, many allies to help him in his struggle against American polemics. He was a coward for killing himself and leaving the people behind with their hopes crushed.

[@irpwellyn]

@@DarkAngelEU how was he to flee?

[@machopikachu1122]

I hope this gets a lot of views. People need to see the concepts and potentials of applying technology towards intelligent resource management and social concern. In Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine” documentary, she exposed the tactics and violence to crush Cybersyn. In the end, she said that as the public becomes more aware of these patterns throughout history, it’s making us shock resistant. So please share this video!

[@conveyor2]

Klein is a typical far left apologist.

[@apestogetherstrong341]

@@conveyor2 she's left and you can't read? pathetic excuse

[@conveyor2]

@@apestogetherstrong341 I was taught by Canadian marxists and read them very well.

[@apestogetherstrong341]

@@conveyor2 read who?

[@conveyor2]

@@apestogetherstrong341 Communist academics at York University 1970s. But deprogrammed myself.

[@vladvendetta8954]

What a great video, it needs so many more views than it currently does. America can be such a dick sometimes.

[@conveyor2]

Okay commissar!

[@supernsansa]

Sometimes? When was the US government not awful to other nations?

[@askd_-hg7ic]

@@supernsansa when it didn't exist

[@CasioMaker]

Chile could have become a beacon of innovation in Latin-America if Cybersyn survived but the short-sighted mentality of the military junta didn't understand it's potential

[@conveyor2]

LOL

[@ancylostomiasis]

Blame the CIA. The junta is just a puppet.

[@conveyor2]

@@ancylostomiasis It's not all about you Yank

[@MrBnj317]

@@ancylostomiasis the military destroyed almost everything they found thinking it was some sort of commie satanist shit. They even destroyed the chilean declaration of independence thinking it was socialist propaganda.

[@N05Y573M]

You're missing the fact that CIA and Nixon didn't saw the potential of Allende's vision as a good idea. Grab a book.

[@goldenredstone04]

I'm slightly disappointed that this isn't about robot pigeons with rockets up their bums, but it was a great video anyway.

[@loyisbinnell2399]

MYSTERY BISCUITS

[@espeon200]

It’s just saying “DEATH” over and over again.

[@johnsorrelw849]

Terrific documentary. Great finds for the footage used in this. Bravo!

[@establishmentdisliker372]

software developers have a duty to build this in 2022

[@Itsmespiv4192]

They would rather be slaves and code bloatware for some useless corporation, as long as they receive numbers on their accounts

[@taylordiclemente5163]

Yes, but the US government will sabotage them again.

[@taylordiclemente5163]

@Christopher Turcotte it's a con

[@Anti-CornLawLeague]

I hope this debunks Mises' economic calculation problem.

[@baseddepartment8338]

it doesnt LOL

[@Anti-CornLawLeague]

@@baseddepartment8338 Just price things according to the amount of labor put into them. One hour of labor equals one labor voucher.

[@baseddepartment8338]

@@Anti-CornLawLeague This fails to consider that labor by nature is heterogeneous

[@Anti-CornLawLeague]

@@baseddepartment8338 The Gosplan of the 21st Century can just Google what the prices of things used to be and set them based on that. Bryan Caplan himself said the ECP is overblown.

[@baseddepartment8338]

@@Anti-CornLawLeague Who tf cares about Bryan Caplan? Hes a neoclassical economist

[@XxStayXPositive]

Playing "Light In Darkness" by Yellow Magic Orchestra in the montage at the beginning of this video was pure kino

[@exebit9366]

My dad worked with Stafford in Uruguay in the eighties. He and Alana were family friends. As a 15 year old metal dead in 1987, Stafford told me to get to get rid of my grimoires and occult objects because they were dangerous. He was a cool dude z for sure.

[@YouLoveMrFriendly]

My dad worked with him, too. We were all really close. When I was 14, Stafford taught me how to play ping pong while teaching me many life lessons. He was awesome.

[@darrishawks6033]

This is a great video. I've always wanted to know more about cybersyn, but there's basically nothing that breaks it down understandably.

[@carlthesanellama3633]

In english there isn’t. but in Spanish. Jorge baradit from the series chile secreto does an even better job.

[@LeoAculaMiles]

Brain of The Firm by Stafford Beer

[@KNNY_-sp6kq]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHuvcmWVfdRqjpIsi=WCLTaixZtm8Rj_-R

[@whatabouttheearth]

They didn't put this out until Plastic Pills put his video out on it. This is basically a content mimicry page. And they all got it from the book 'Cybernetic Revolutionaries: Technology and Politics in Allendes Chile' by Eden Medina

[@whatabouttheearth]

They didn't put this out until Plastic Pills put his video out on it. This is basically a content mimicry page. And they all got it from the book 'Cybernetic Revolutionaries: Technology and Politics in Allendes Chile' by Eden Medina

[@RaaviChowdhury]

amazing video. this just changed my life for sure.

[@mauriciodelgado8646]

This informatioñnot all the people know, and this should be part of the classes in programming courses, it's a great part of the history, and need to shared to everybody. - Excellent

[@dogeman2566]

Thanks USA, very cool

[@ioreodream]

Great video. I had no.idea about their September attack and the cyber syn. Kind of heart breaking that we are stuck in the indentured slavery

[@builder_dahomey]

This could have changed everything.

[@robloxmaverick77]

Really well made and informative video

[@AugustDemonnn]

*Insert Citation Needed joke here*

[@booth1533]

Something about robot pigeons maybe

[@EarthHuman001]

MYSTERY BISCUITS !!!! OH YEAHHHHH

[@marksanders2168]

Mayflowerrr immigration

[@MrCramYT]

Great video, needs more atencion

[@pachho808]

I still don't understand how Cybersyn's production planning, but it sounds good

[@smokyondagrass2353]

This video explains it hella better kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHi3dqKAfppgj5Y

[@conveyor2]

Socialist much??

[@比那名居鸽子-m6s]

system five to the people

[@5508Vanderdekken]

It’s just an enterprise resource management system like the ones big companies use all the time

[@whatabouttheearth]

​@@conveyor2 Socialism is the only way

[@zacharymarlow7]

Where do you get your stock footage?

[@TheHorseOutside]

This is the Technical Difficulties, we're playing Citation Needed, joining me today he reads books you known it's Chris Joel!

[@sirBrouwer]

The one and only Gary Branden, Gary Branden, the bounciest person on the internet Matt Gray and I am your host Tom Scott.

[@johndoh1000]

This video should be seen. Here's my comment to help with visability.

[@elias6425]

great video!

[@mauriciodelgado8646]

Guys, In Chile lots of very good things were stoped in military strike, Chileans are scared for 20 years.

[@skicasso8470]

2001: Space Odyssey takes place in an alternate reality where Cybersyn wasnt squashed

[@filthygee]

I was looking for a video to explain this project. This was perfect! Thanks a ton!

[@jessl1934]

Check put Plastic Pills' documentary on Cybersyn 🤯

[@whatabouttheearth]

Read 'Cybernetic Revolutionaries: Technology and Politics in Allendes Chile' by Eden Medina

[@newwavesyndicate3985]

very interesting

[@EclecticSceptic]

Great video.

[@TerraRubicon]

Well narrated with a lot off background information.

[@comradebanana129]

But but muh knowledge gap, muh ECP

[@glowlog]

building this on the blockchain

[@sii8311]

Great example of how voting will not save us from capitalism.

[@rootzjunkies]

Entonces esto es la interner porfavor muchas decadas atras. Chile siemrpe aportando al.mundo de alguna manera muchas veces buenas y aveces malas pero siempre le dejamos algo a la humanidad. Fuimos un pais pobre pero de gente de letras y academicos de todas las areas. Desde 1800 chile en el mapa

[@andyberryman3148]

I believe in a capitalist organisation of society allied with a welfare state as the best way to organise an economy whilst also maintaining good speed with the progression of mankind's journey through the universe also. However, obviously capitalism gets a lot of flack and as a defender of it I think I should be educated as to the alternatives, so thanks so much for this video to help enlighten me to other paths of thought. I'm still not convinced personally but the video was brilliantly made and produced and a joy to watch, so thank you and well done! I'm also reading Das Kapital by Karl Marx and I'm currently around 300 pages in. Plenty of food for thought! All the best mate, cheers.

[@tchadcarby8439]

Capitalism is completely unsustainable because it operates under the premise that we can sustain infinite growth and infinite consumption of resources on a finite planet. Capitalism is not mathematically sustainable.

[@andyberryman3148]

@@tchadcarby8439 The fact the most successful capitalists in the world right now are actively pursuing space travel should bring you towards the answer you're looking for. The end goal isn't to scrape the planet bare and then all die here, it's to spread humanity across the stars. Also a point of contention, the Earth is constantly absorbing energy radiated from the sun. So if you were simply using energy to break chemical bonds and form new ones to produce things we need, finite isn't actually a good descriptor to use. Furthermore I've actually finished Kapital Vol 1. and I'm more convinced than ever that capitalism is the only sensible method of organising an economy.

[@tchadcarby8439]

@@andyberryman3148 you may have to excuse my comment. I had not considered the system of capitalism in the context of a space fearing civilization and I overlooked a very important statement in your comment where you said "maintaining good speed with mankind's progression in the universe" I would have to agree with you.

[@andyberryman3148]

@@tchadcarby8439 ah fair play my dude! I can see from your response that you were not trying to ignore what I was saying. Thank you my dude and I hope you have a pleasant evening!

[@tchadcarby8439]

@@andyberryman3148 Much thanks to you too! And I hope you enjoy the same. 🍻

[@XxLIVRAxX]

Chances are that the whole Cybersyn program would have ended as a complete failure with uncompetitive state owned industries wasting hard earned resources with a bloated burocracy, and stacked with idle workers regardless. What is certain is that the people of Chile did no deserve the atrocious crimes of the brutal dictatorial regime of Pinochet, Allende would have likely been defeated in the next presidential elections, the left would have learned from their many mistakes, rectify their proposals with more realistic policies, less radical and with more emphasis on building a wider consensus. There was no real threat of a soviet styled dictatorship, Allende and the left obviously lacked the military support to impose one and while the whole techno utopia would have failed to materialize, early adoption of telecom tech could have allowed for the emergence of a tech sector, know-how to be developed and that in itself would have been of great value.

[@5508Vanderdekken]

Everything you wrote rests upon the assumption that state owned industries perform worse than private owned industries. They mostly perform the same with private industry often cutting more corners to achieve “profit”

[@KNNY_-sp6kq]

Cybersyn was actually incredibly good at *not* having idle workers/resources because of the real time data feed, which would just redirect workers and resources if they weren’t needed where they were.

[@DaēnāVanguhi]

Instead we got Amazon and more billionaires and more depression

[@Derzolus]

In my opinion this system in the long term would not have survived. No way the party/government bureaucracy would have given the command and control tools to a network of professionals and computers. Secondly, the system in order to actually work needs accurate and honest data. In all other socialist countries people lied about very aspect of the economy. There were always pressure to comply with the political leadership demands often accompanied by violent measures. Plus corruption plus the natural tendency for state administrators to reserve their position for life. A network exposing all the inherent and fundamentally flaws of the socialist planned economy had always been resisted by every member of the economic and socialist apparatus. It did not work, it required another type of society. This is has happened with OGAS in the Soviet Union or the little known Unirea project in Socialist Romania. It did not work although was physically there but it was not used as it was envision to work.

[@tchadcarby8439]

You're making the mistake of trying to fit the Cybersyn model into a corrupt state. The model alone isn't enough to just work on its own and no one should expect it to. It needs to be apart of a social system that is corrupt proof with the proper checks and balances so you can't just throw a system like this into other socialist scocies of the past and expect it to work.

[@比那名居鸽子-m6s]

so in china，we have GPCR。“SYSTEM FIVE to the people”

[@maxcaz2069]

You are forgetting that cybersyn was being developed in Chile, a country that has a long democratic tradition, unlike Russia for example. Also, Allende's government wasn't repressive like other socialist governments. Chile had, indeed, another type of society.

[@比那名居鸽子-m6s]

@@maxcaz2069 It is impossible for any country that wants to carry out complete socialist construction to leave the important stage of "GPCR". You don't seem to know that it is not only part of Chinese history, but part of the entire world history. I'll repeat that sentence ''system five to the people', which is what Stafford Beer said later when he recounted cybersyn, repeating what Allende said.

[@Srijit1946]

"No way the party / goverment bureaucracy would have given the command and control tools to a network of professionals and computers." And yet that is exactly what Salvador Allende's democratically elected socialist goverment was doing in Chile. "Secondly, this system in order to actually work needs honest and accurate data." Which it would have gotten. "In all other socialist countries people lied about very aspect of the economy." Cuba doesn't, Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara didn't, the democratically elected Communist government in Kerala (an Indian state, India is an union of states) doesn't, Chile's socialist goverment wasn't doing that and would keep not doing that. This is actually capitalist projection, every capitalist country on the planet lies about the very aspect of their economies, that's what capitalist economists do. "There were always pressure to comply with the political leadership demands often accompanied by violent measures." This was true in the Soviet Union during its breakneck industrialization process of the 1930s and 40s, and China in during the GLF (especially in the later case, the expectations which were set were incredibly unrealistic, which incentivized people to outright lie). But it was not the case in Chile and Cuba, for example. "Plus corruption" political and economic corruption skyrocketed in Russia and most other former Soviet states (with few exceptions, like the Baltics, Czech, etc) after the shock therapy was imposed on USSR to fully and quickly restore capitalism, the shock therapy was recommended by economists which were considered to be the most 'scientific' in the West, the United States is basically a two-party corporate duopoly where bribing is legalized but it's fine because they call it lobbying instead. That's not a "natural" tendency, but fiction, there are so many examples to the contrary it's baffling someone would even say this. "A network exposing all the inherent and fundamental flaws of the socialist planned economy had always been resisted by every member of the economic and socialist apparatus." This makes the fundamentally flawed assumption that socialist planned economies were somehow "inherently and fundamentally flawed", they weren't. Socialist China from 1950-1980 consistently grew, developed and industrialized faster than capitalist social democratic India, despite the backbreaking trade embargo imposed upon China by USA during most of that period. This is really also just capitalist market economy projection, again. There isn't a single successful example of a country developing through free-market, laissez-faire, or neo-liberal economics. south Korea, for example, embraced a form of central planning from the early 1960s to the mid 1990s, purely out of pragmatism, because it works and is superior to market economics. "It did not work, it required another type of society." Anything is possible when one makes stuff up, Chile WAS THAT "another type of society". "This is what happened with OGAS in the Soviet Union or the little known Unirea project in socialist Romania. It did not work although it was physically there but it was not used as it was envision to work." The Soviet Union never embraced Project OGAS like Chile tried to embraced Project CyberSyn (but was overthrown). This system would have survived and prospered in the long term, if it got implemented in one of the more dominant and richer countries, while capitalist countries would be facing the same crises they face (like the boom and bust cycles, crises of overproduction, tendency of the rate of profit to fall, etc)

[@Zachsnotboard]

So this is basically what China wants to do with Blockchain and a central banking digital currency ?

[@tchadcarby8439]

No China priorities control. Cybersyn priorities the intelligent management of resources, labor and decisions for maximum efficiency.

[@PowersOfDarkness]

I havent read "the governance of china" myself, but I heard from someone who did that it seems to them China uses a mix of Cybernetics in their planning.

[@o-...-.-...-..0473]

I'm generally pro free-market, but I sometimes wish Cybesyn got off the ground. It would be an interesting experiment to test the Economic Calculation Problem. Even if it did ultimately fail, I think they should have turned the control room into a museum rather than destroying it. If a centrally planned economy worked as well or better than a market economy, I'd still have some reservations. A free-market economy is decentralized, transactions can be made between everyone without oversight, a centrally planned economy is under more state direction, and so they could deny resources to people they don't like say.

[@johnwright7916]

I mean is that really the case anymore with most developed countries swapping to more moneyless/digital transations and therefore trackable transactions. I hardly use cash anymore myself in a supermarket, I often use a contactless debit card.

[@kingfish2703]

But don't forget all the downsides of free market economy like the inevitable monopolies.

[@smokyondagrass2353]

@@kingfish2703 and boom bust cycles

[@mauricio9564]

@Kvass Tii Even in the authoritarian East Germany enemies of the state were not denied the right to a job or food.And there is nothing decentralized about modern capitalism it’s highly centralized and planned already specially thanks to modern computing technology and economies of scale.If we have a demarchy/democracy with this economic system this fear would be unlikely to occur. And in varios capitalist nations people have been denied land and food by the government already and people are denied food everyday and other needs because of not having money,20 million die every year today still because of lack of money to buy food.

[@conveyor2]

The naivite is thick with this one. The 20th century missed you?

[@peterkennedy6161]

If someone from the farm or factory floor were to put in false data or If a politician could disregard statistic for their own gain the system would fall apart

[@starthetankist979]

That makes no sense. That would apply to anything using computers.

[@it6647]

@@starthetankist979 If Cambridge Analytica says anything, this is a very real problem it seems If you disagree, please do explain

[@starthetankist979]

@@it6647 What do they say?

[@it6647]

@@starthetankist979 By Cambridge Analytica I meant the scandal that happened when digital networking and changing user feed were used to sway the political opinions of the individual, often using false information

[@materialmanners]

@@it6647 i think it’ll have to be handled by having transparency laws in place, and just having data information, how it’s collected, etc. made available to the public along with professional fact checkers/analysts too to minimize the possibility of someone making false data

[@keithammleter3824]

This idiotic project was doomed from the start. Doomed in part because the only computer available was an already obsolete IBM 360/50 - a 2 MHz 64K mainframe about as powerful as an early PC. Doomed because they thought they were getting a control room with real time computer displays (in colour too!) not possible in 1971 and certainly not possible on a 360/50. Doomed because the chief architect was a British professor theorist type who had never done anything practical in his life. What they got was graphic artists manually making up colour slides for rear projection onto screens. Not real time at all. And just as in the USSR, where communism promised one thing (a worker's paradise) and delivered another (a stodgy economy with rationing that could not keep up with the West) Cybersyn promised one thing (workers in control) and delivered something quite different - commands from above issued by jerks in a room remote from reality. These peanuts thought that by centrally monitoring, they could take action to avoid bottlenecks and shortages. But in private industry we do that anyway - if I need something, I issue a purchase order. I don't need the government to to tell me to do so. And I don't need the government to have delivered to me things I can't use.

[@Zapper-kq1zg]

you might think that you understand this better, Soviet and Chilean economists and scientists know better than you

[@keithammleter3824]

@@Zapper-kq1zg : Actually, the Soviets had nothing to do with it. They were not that dumb. But they provide a good comparison.

[@5508Vanderdekken]

Lol private industry is as incredibly wasteful and stupid as you think “socialism” is. Amazon and Walmart do cybersyn on a daily basis. You need to stop projecting your daddy issues on the government

[@KNNY_-sp6kq]

@@keithammleter3824not at all but ok

[@whatabouttheearth]

You very obviously don't understand the difference between Socialism and Communism. Communism in it's post primitive form has never existed.

[@masscreationbroadcasts]

Onewordantiworkersocialism.

[@whatabouttheearth]

Anti worker? Under Allende wages increased 30%. That is one of the reasons CIA felt they needed to take rapid action

[@whatabouttheearth]

Anti worker? Under Allende wages increased 30%. That is one of the reasons CIA felt they needed to take rapid action

[@whatabouttheearth]

Read 'Cybernetic Revolutionaries: Technology and Politics in Allendes Chile' by Eden Medina