Project Lantan: Poland Designs a Modular AK in 7x41mm

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

Initially, Lantan project was supposed to use caseless ammunition. The 7x41 ammo which was later included in the Lantan project was developed for the program code-named Marszyt. The goal of the program was, as you might expect, to develop a new generation intermediate cartridge to replace 7,62 × 39 mm wz. 43

[@jeanvonestling7408]

So this is Polish g11? Hey, maybe it will be festured in numerous video games ;)

[@TeleriumD12]

The basis of the pulse rifle from aliens. Look at the visual profile of the handguard, dust cover, and it was supposed to use case less ammunition?

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@TeleriumD12 Yep, and all this a couple of years before the movie even came out.

[@TeleriumD12]

I forgot about the stock too. I'm aware they used a Thompson and underslung shotgun for the working props, but the whole rear visual profile from the action backward is clearly AK/Lantan inspired

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@TeleriumD12 I have my doubts. Military projects behind the Iron Curtain were usually kept secret. I am not sure when information about this modernization program was released to the public.

[@1111Tactical]

I love these types of guns that have the "real life Fallout" aesthetic.

[@Anino_Makata]

The stamp upper receiver is giving off the vibes of those Chinese smuggled AKMs.

[@M65V19]

Straith from Brazil favela.

[@hobbstactv2571]

Still looks better than anything Bethesda has designed to date

[@Rensune]

Not a Beth fan (at least after 4 and 76) but their Mr Gutsy design was brilliant

[@Rensune]

​@@hobbstactv2571 I think that artist (the main designer of 3) died, tho

[@PiotrTSzymanski]

The 7x41 cartridge was code-named Marszyt. Polish sources indicate its muzzle velocity was 770 mps (2526 fps).

[@Se7enBeatleofDoom]

Looks like a futuristic AK from a 90s to early 2000s video game.

[@gustavoalmanza2673]

Or a normal AK in a PSP game so it’s all boxy

[@timothyhouse1622]

It looks like a gun you would find on Fallout. LOL

[@Vincent-S]

I always like how the specter of 7mm always pops up every so often with experimental cartridges that almost, almost gets adopted before getting squashed

[@julianb5844]

You could say the same for 8mm ;)

[@notNajimi]

@@julianb5844that at least was used in a couple important cartridges. And we might be getting 8mm Kurz back into production soo

[@Siskiyous6]

Logically since only two were made, and the project ended, it ALMOST was the final iteration of that project.

[@Szejski]

Final but not ultimate 😀

[@printingwithpeek4897]

That's not an accurate statement.

[@jamesneufeld-b7e]

Ian has the coolest gig a firearms enthusiast could imagine.

[@mfreund15448]

The only problem is the way you make your money can take it away at any moment because they don’t like your content.

[@hoilst265]

OK, now THIS is the sort of weird content we come here for. This looks like a damn post-apocalyptic movie/video game gun. Some manner of Polish cyborg needs to be seen wielding this.

[@chrisjohnson9469]

For real, looks like a gun that would be in Rust. Just missing the shovel-handle buttstock!

[@fonesrphunny7242]

Not a cyborg, but a bear.

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

@@fonesrphunny7242 With his artillery shells tucked under the other arm

[@hoilst265]

@@fonesrphunny7242 Cyborg Bear. ...OK, now I'm gonna have to do what Hollywood calls a "treatment".

[@rickardspaghetti]

Cyborg bear... Like Wojtek meets Robo-Cop? We'll call him Cybertek!

[@Axemantitan]

Beyond its ballistics, the 7x41 cartridge is just aesthetically beautiful.

[@junkman4796]

Glad I'm not the only one who appreciates such things.

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

I wonder if the material originally used for the stock was selected for how easy it would be to sculpt a one off stock so the design could be more easily iterated prior to adopting a final design.

[@hungryburger1170]

or they just wanted to one down the worst firearm stock they could find.

[@Anino_Makata]

It almost looks like it was made in spur of the moment to make it "good enough" to meet a trials deadline, the plan being to make a proper stock after you made the admins and military commanders consider what you have to offer them.

[@lando8913]

Maybe it was foam dipped in latex and the latex just rotted away.

[@Logan-zp8bi]

More than likely they were experimenting with comfort. The metal is where most of the pressure would be while the foam exists for comfort in theory. It certainly would be cheaper in theory but the the key issue is foam is not as long lasting and its easily damaged not it could cause more recoil.

[@geodkyt]

Likely cost was the driver. Prototyping a foam stock would be cheaper than prototyping an actual injected polymer, because you could use the lost wax process to make the mold cheaply and quickly, when you're only doing a handful. Once you've set the design pretty much in stone amd know how the stock will end up being shaped and the exact geometry of the attachment, *then* you go and drop the $150,000 (well, maybe $30,000 back then) to make proper molds for proper polymers.

[@StephenRWilliams]

This piece has a tamper-evident feature you didn't mention. Simply weigh the weapon on a precise scale, record the mass, and compare to a log of previous mass when put into storage. Every time anyone handles the weapon, it will weigh slightly less from additional foam particles falling off. In this way you'll always be assured no one has tampered with your weapon.

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

By the look of it, the remainder of those foam scraps are going to keep disintegrating whether anyone tampers with it or not.

[@Tunkkis]

​@@bartolomeothesatyr So you'll just have to sentence someone randomly. Nothing out of the ordinary for the ComBloc.

[@johngaither9263]

Unless they stick some chewing gum on it.

[@bakters]

The foam stock seems quite cool to me, at this moment of prototyping at least. Very easy to make and shape however you like it. It's not supposed to last. Once you get all the details finalized, you'll get it molded properly in plastic, or whatever you like. Making "high build quality" prototypes is simply a waste of time and money. I'm quite convinced plenty of other firearms went through similar stages of very rough development, but we rarely ever see them.

[@PaulStore800]

I thought this was a joke about leaving metal unsupervised around Poles, ah well...

[@tufab3494]

Ian, please take a look at the IMBEL IA2 rifle! It's a brazilian modernization of the FAL platform that's being adopted within Brazil's armed forces (and it's already kinda forgotten too)

[@Anino_Makata]

Ian did a video on the Norwegian and Swedish modernization programs for the G3, so he should definitely look into Brazil's modernized FALs.

[@tommyblackwell3760]

It would be nice if he also looked at the IMBEL MD series, that the IA2 is replacing.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

On that note I'd love a video about the SC-2010, which is a Peruvian modernization attempt at the FAL.

[@davitdavid7165]

I just googled it and it looks badass.

[@ДокторЯдо]

Okay, now I really want to know how its machinegun variants would look like.

[@TiesOfZip]

I love the welded extension on the mag. For being an experimental one off, that’s dope

[@adamcichon6957]

If you look closely, at 4:00 minute mark, you will see (by tracing the weld lines) that not only is there an extension welded on, but whole front of the magazine was cut off and new wider piece from another mag was welded on.

[@actionjksn]

This has nothing to do with drugs.

[@audacity60]

When I was a lad, in the mid 70s, I bought a copy of "Armies & Weapons" magazine that had an article on the Polish Army. The Poles said they were not happy with the ballistics of the 7.62x39, but gave no more details than that. Thanks for solving the mystery of what the Poles were up to. The 7x41 cartridge would be pretty effective even today.

[@DaleErnieMichael]

It's literally less powerful than standard 7.62x39, this new round makes no sense.

[@PanProper]

@@DaleErnieMichael You are wrong. It is exactly the opposite. That's why this cartridge was created to have better parameters from 7.62x39. 7.62x39 => 715 m/s, 1991J 7x41 => 770 m/s, 2000J Any questions?

[@DaleErnieMichael]

@@PanProper Ian literally says it's 118gr. going 2350fps, standard 7.62x39 is 122-125gr. at 2400fps. The 7mm round is objectively inferior, and even if the numbers were what you just made up it's literally a 0.5% improvement in exchange for a larger, heavier cartridge that would require hundreds of millions of dollars to adopt and have zero compatibility with any of Poland's allies or even their enemies.

[@PanProper]

@@DaleErnieMichael Exactly, the improvement in parameters was so small that it did not economically agree on the implementation into production. Which does not change the fact that the Polish cartridge had better parameters than the Soviet one... Anyway, these were the assumptions...

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@DaleErnieMichael Ian literally said it goes 2530 fps and then made a MISTAKE the second time he mentioned velocity and changed the number around to 2350 fps. Watch carefully.

[@ss181292]

Thanks for the video. I live in Poland, but I never heard of Lantan project. I have only heard, that there were some works aborted by USSR. Funny, that despite I'm Polish, I'm learning Polish history from US guy. Thanks again!

[@zedsdeadbaby]

Soviet history is rightfully consigned to the dustbin. You are better off moving on from it. The soviet union was an abomination fuelled by despair and misery. The Polish have much to be proud of, resisting the nazis and then the communists. Focus on that part of your heritage.

[@TheRPGamer7]

I never thought I'd ask this, but what did that stock smell like? I have this God-awful notion of being issued a piece of a rubberized foam stock, running 10 Km in the rain, going for cheek weld, just as I get a sight picture...The smell of every other conscript seeped into the foam comes wafting up.

[@calanon534]

In that case, all you'd smell is depression and fear. And possibly some moonshine 'vodka' that got made in the barracks in Teodor's boot, but everyone went blind from drinking.

[@georges.7683]

The 7x41 cartridge is fascinating, wonder how it compares to the 6.8×51/.277 Fury, .280 British, 6.8mm Remington SPC, etc. Could be worth a dedicated video.

[@toxeusd.m.6043]

It has almost same characteristics as 6.8 SPC

[@victorwaddell6530]

I thought of the 7x57mm Mauser cartridge when I watched this video . I wonder if the Polish designers were thinking of it too .

[@jeremygharrison]

It would seem to be very similar to the .280 British (7x43), at least in specification, so a video comparing them (and other similar cartridges) would certainly be interesting.

[@mrkeogh]

I want to know more about this 7x41mm cartridge...

[@Miazger]

I have the feeling it's basically 6.8 SPC

[@lando8913]

I love these prototypes with oddball cartridges.

[@szczur22]

I have a feeling that this stock was made by encasing that metal skeleton with expanding foam and then sculpting it to a final shape.

[@paweek5540]

Yeah, the residual foam has that expanding polyurethane insulation foam look. This would perfectly fit that tire rubber front grip. Edit: Just wanted to add that I don't mean that it's bad in any way - using any and all available materials for prototyping fits perfectly the Polish engineering ethos.

[@geodkyt]

Or, even making a lost wax cavity to hand the stock skeleton into and spray the foam around it. I did a similar thing with a hollow, aftermarket, FAL stock, with a can of crack sealant spray foam and some bird shot mixed in at intervals, to balance the rifle better. The stock ended up slightly stiffer overall, too...

[@bratbrata4974]

The reason is quite different. It was the period of communist Poland. There were widespread shortages, from toilet paper to sugar, shoes and cigarettes. I used to wear my older brother's shoes because you couldn't buy them in the store. I assume that what was at hand was used in the prototype. Some equivalent of what was supposed to be in the target version.

[@amorphoussolid8512]

I am incredibly impressed! My socks have not just been blown off, they have achieved escape velocity. I have never heard a whisper of this project or that cartridge. Gun Jesus, you bless me with your mighty knowledge. Thank you from a long time fan.

[@mfree80286]

1:38 Fun fact: This urethane-over-steel concept was used on mid-80's Fords, I had an '84 Tbird with steel wheels cast inside a polyurethane shell and coated to resemble alloy wheels. They were only a little squishy...

[@nicklewis7291]

Thanks for showing us cool firearms like this.

[@giarcsavage]

I love these engineering prototypes! Well done Ian for sniffing out another piece that may have never seen the light of day to the general public.

[@GiggleBlizzard]

Thank you for the cartridge comparisons, especially just seeing how they differ in dimensions visually is soo helpful!

[@vanVoltaire]

From what I know there is second prototype with stock that survived, but it's not in Poland anymore.

[@michaireneuszjakubowski5289]

Well shoot, I wasn't expecting that! What a great choice of topic, Lantan is wonderfully weird. Pozdrowienia z Polski!/Greetings from Poland!

[@poMocnyMichal]

Stock now looks like something out of WH40k Traitor Guard!

[@pasza_dem]

Wow, very interesting piece of weapon design history! Idea of a cheap modular system that can be manufactured in large quantities, this had some nice potential. Amazing content, thank you Ian for sharing this with us!

[@arkadiusztrzesniewski3486]

Never heard about that gun before. If I haven't clicked that video I would thought that this is some early iteration of Kbk Beryl prototype. Thanks Mr. Ian for upload!

[@adamwinterton2512]

How cool and stressful at the same time, to disassemble this gun...

[@marekm2561]

Dzięki ! Zawsze znajdziesz coś ciekawego!👽🖖

[@parzavaal5335]

Wtf aliens in the comments?!

[@ELEKTROSKANSEN]

@@parzavaal5335 LEGAL aliens, mind you

[@jakubr3831]

truly a rarity, greetings from Poland

[@lev_iothon]

Dziękuję Ian! Love seeing polish stuff on your channel C:

[@79marchewa]

As I recall there was a ton of interesting concept's of similar kind made as graduate works in Military Technical Academy (WAT) in Poland a specially a lot of different bullpup concepts.

[@pgruszewski]

Don't know how he gets access to all these super-rare things, but I'm glad he does.

[@Ocato92]

Patients pays! I've waited since Tantal video for this one, and it's finally here!

[@piotrnowak7730]

This is a truly forgotten weapon, I admire your work and envy your opportunities.

[@lolpl0000]

im so glad ian is enjoying his time in poland :) it would be so cool to bump into him in the streets haha. even just to say hi! yes im polish :)

[@switch2472]

This looks remarkably like a very early Beretta AR-70, AR70-90, or SIG551/2/3. All the moving parts are still there and like the AR70/90 and SIG 55X the quick change barrel and upper receiver are mostly sheetmetal with a forged front trunnion.

[@ElMarduko]

At first, I was about to check if Ian had already done a Tantal review. Then, I double-checked the title.

[@bezimiennyziemniak]

Thank you for coming Ian, you are my favorite Sunday dinner companion.

[@maxsweeney4212]

If that gun could speak, it would be shrieking for death.

[@Anino_Makata]

Either that, or it would be sobbing with deep depression.

[@lando8913]

Kiiilll.. meeeee...

[@kmech3rd]

Kurwa.... 😥

[@maxsweeney4212]

@@kmech3rd Kurwa mach indeed.

[@szymonstanisawowicz24]

Nice suprise that you vistited us, 🎉 best regards ftom the north of PL - Gdansk. I'm kida fan of this channel.

[@karltaylor5643]

That was interesting, and kool. Looked like two stamped ak receivers to make the upper and lower.

[@trajancaesar2662]

Sounds like a spiritual predecessor to the modular MSBS Grot.

[@joshklaver47]

They basically came up with 6.8 SPC a few decades early.

[@itsalwayssunnyinpahoa7631]

Gun Jesus finally took the walk to Poland.

[@hungryburger1170]

it's like Poland didn't have enough money for a shitty wire frame stock. really lacking that Polish on the project

[@LowtusMob]

Nice yoke

[@Bolshevik.remover]

There was a stock but it disintegrated since 1980s.

[@PanProper]

The constructors had such a fantasy and it was their business, not the possibilities...

[@Coltbreath]

Would love to get my VZ58 chambered in this round with a HB and Compensator Really love the blueing on this one!

[@secretsquirrel1534]

I Would Absolutely Love to have Seen what that Lantan and the 7x41 mm cartridge would of become !!!

[@ecrogue4496]

The more of these guns I watch you take apart the more I realize, Guns are just really badass deadly leggos for men.

[@stormthrush37]

I wonder if this would have been backwards compatible with the 7.62x39 cartridge with some sort of spacer in the magazine to keep the rounds in the right place.

[@mulletjocks]

Yes! I’ve not heard of this. So nice to be surprised!

[@Witq87]

I like that "Mad Max style" front grip 😅 Greeting from Poland BTW!

[@johngaither9263]

The Poles in the early '70s envisioned a cartridge remarkably similar to the current 6.8 mm round the army has approved for the new XM7 series of rifles and SAWs. Strangely enough the M-1 Garand was at first chambered for the .276 Pedersen cartridge but changed at the last minute to .30 caliber.

[@jimdandy4329]

Thank you, Ian!

[@jacekszczukocki5506]

This is truly forgotten weapon.

[@exuberance3973]

Missed opportunity to call it the Polish Kaiser with its Withered buttstock

[@benjimenfranklin7650]

Shame they don't still make those. Would be a lot of fun at the range.

[@Zer0fuks]

I would absolutely love to see a video on some forgotten optics and sights, specifically the *old school* iMatronic Lasersight LS45 that we see on Kurt Russell's Ruger GP100 in the movie Tango and Cash.

[@PaulM1984]

there was also Molibden rifle prototype from WAT - military technical academy in Warsaw in early '90

[@cheyannei5983]

I feel like the overly robust milled upper and lower receiver wouldn't have been too out of the line for a sharpshooter variant.

[@geodkyt]

Just having the barrel attach to the upper is going to increase repeatable accuracy for any scope mount (or an iron sight moved to the rear of the receiver, which would simultaneous make field accuracy easier by increasing sight radius).

[@coreymerrill3257]

Ian, When you said it was more powerful, did you mean at distance? A 123 grain ( nominal ) projectile at 2350 fps will have slightly more muzzle energy than one of 116 grains at the same velocity.obviously the 7mm has higher b.c./s.d. unlike the 5.56 Nato Which velocity is measured from a 20 inch barrel , the ak rounds are tested In the standard 16 inch ak barrels. So when a box of " ak ammo" says 2350fps or 2900fps, that's from the 16 inch(800ish mm) barrels. (no ,I'm not explaining this all for Ian, he knows this, but many viewers won't . )

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

The muzzle velocity of this projectile was 2530 fps NOT 2350 fps.

[@coalmine8350]

love the videos keep up the great work!

[@rognvaldrasbjrn3972]

That, for a Meccano modular style design is incredibly attractive in a sort of primitive way. I love things that are not particularly pretty but effective and reliable. I would add that i would *not* like to field strip that under duress..

[@andrzej2501]

Fascinating. Never heard about that one.

[@barakobamadubai]

Thank you Ian very interesting

[@yoellopez82]

He the only dude that can pick up an alien weapon and know how to reload it like Master Chief.

[@GazalAlShaqab]

Licence buying from USSR in Eastern bloc countries was not so much about the money (which was in fact secondary here), but il was always a POWER-play ("Are you strong and bolded enough AT THIS VERY MOMENT to REFUSE our licence?").

[@simongrushka983]

holy crap despite being somehow gun interested Pole i had no idea about that gun. Great video!

[@nicholascecil6733]

Woof, That's a rifle only a motherland could love

[@milsimmaniac711]

Kalashnikov made a gun called the ak 521 that has a detachable upper and lower so with one lower in Russia is the fire arm you can have 3 uppers in different calibers while still technically owning 1 rifle

[@wheelguns4wheelmen802]

Love this video. Most interesting one in a while.

[@tomaspabon2484]

Man the best FW videos are the ones where you're going "what in the fuck is that?" On the first frame

[@sportosp-0158]

That disintegrating foam stock must really have stunk

[@sionsoschwalts2762]

The cartridge is suspiciously close to the WW2 German experimental 7mm

[@johndallman2692]

Is that the 7x64 Brenneke or something else? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7%C3%9764mm

[@MrPh30]

7x64 is a full lenght hunting cartridge ,will fit in a K98 action lenght .

[@sionsoschwalts2762]

@John Dallman I meant the 7x46 which was an intermediate cartridge, the 7x64 is an excellent cartridge but it was a full power rifle cartridge.

[@666toysoldier]

It is interesting to consider that the 6.5 Swedish Mauser round, designed in the 19th century, is very close to the "ideal" rounds that have been developed since.

[@Shirocco7]

Amazing thing to see. Thanks for sharing.

[@death31313]

Ok, that thing is seriously cool. With some refinement I could easily see this thing becoming better than the stoner 63. It's a shame they didn't keep the project going.

[@fotoradar6063]

The worst thing about it is that they could have accually just rechamber it to 5.45. Since it's so modular they only would have to change the bolt, barrel and lower(+mags but that's a given)

[@death31313]

@@fotoradar6063 yup, or when Poland joined Nato they could have switched it to 5.56.

[@Redmenace96]

Gun Jesus gets mad access to prototype weapons. Pure gold. We would never see these, if not for him.

[@jeremygharrison]

Something I wonder is to what extent did it inspire, or influence, the - rather later - development of the modern MSBS Grot rifle, which as I understand it comes from the same factory, and has many similar features

[@DerangedManiac12]

3:24 Gun Jesus burp

[@thegunfoogle2864]

First thing I notice when I look at it, Looking through ejection port I see an STG bolt.

[@aaron4820]

"Draw me an AK" GPT-0: okay

[@AweEmperorofChickenKilling]

honestly this would have been a cool project to see completed

[@corvoattano4777]

So i dont understand why was the 7x41 weaker than 762x39 when it was longer and larger ? Or was the 762x39 in those days weaker comapred to what we have today ?

[@cosaqueexiste9647]

Where was it said that the cartridge was weaker?

[@corvoattano4777]

@@edgarburlyman738 yes 2530 is very decent. And i think would have made it a near perfect caliber.

[@imgvillasrc1608]

@@corvoattano4777 The absolutely perfect cartridge would be Gunther Voss’ 7.92x40mm CETME

[@ScottKenny1978]

​@@imgvillasrc1608 way too long a bullet.

[@imgvillasrc1608]

@Scott Kenny It’s just 4mm longer than the 7.62 NATO. Very little difference for it to be a big deal.

[@CaffeineAndMylanta]

This feels like the most Forgotten Weapon

[@gaveintothedarkness]

The handgaurd looks like it was made from a floormat

[@lordslive4948]

It's like an AK that drank bud light

[@Mesjasz]

@@seymoarsalvage hey, that joke probably got him some likes on less apolitical gun channels, he probably thought that it'll work here too.

[@victorwaddell6530]

I wonder if the Polish designers were thinking of the 7x57mm Mauser cartridge and trying to create similar ballistics in a shorter case with more modern powders .

[@asparagusrealizer11]

The handguard is what it would look like if Magpul designed something for the Stoner-63.

[@mateoocampo3165]

Id like an AR180 chambered in a 7.62×45mm chech necked down to 7mm. 7×45mm. Pic rail on the receiver. Lancer mags. Please.

[@Oldmankingspiffy]

I wish they continued to develop this. It would be badass

[@MD-gb2nf]

What in holly 60's space age designers on benzedrin is that?

[@noscopesallowed8128]

I know this is completely out of left field, but that upper receiver looks a hell of a lot like the upper of the SA80

[@Kumimono]

It's weird, I realize that's a, internal part of the buttstock, not the full buttstock, yet, it makes the whole rifle look huge.

[@willprince643]

Great video, I didn’t even had idea that there was such a weapon prototyped in Poland, and there was even new cartridge developed for that :O . Well, seems like another good idea that couldn’t work out because of communism and Soviet Union, reminds me kind of Jacek Karpiński and his computer that didn’t go anywhere I think.

[@peceed]

This cartridge is too similar to regular 7.62x39mm, not a real progress worth incompatibility. Especially after 5.45x39mm development that offered so much better lethality, and double ammo count for given weight.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

@@peceed Let me guess, you also didn't notice that Ian made a mistake describing this ammunition's initial velocity.

[@peceed]

@@kamilszadkowski8864 Po prostu podaj tą wartość jeśli jest inna, to coś co trzeba wiedzieć. Ale niczego to nie zmienia we wnioskach - ręczna broń maszynowa może mieć do 2500 J więc nie ma wiele miejsca do manewru ponad 2200, a to wciąż zbyt blisko 7.62x39, by nowy nabój miał sens. Albo nie ma sensu z powodu większej mocy. Tendencja była jednak inna - jak najmniejszy nabój pośredni i to im się udało perfekcyjnie, 5.45x39 to najbardziej udany nabój w historii.

[@PanProper]

@@KuK137 Człowiek, który nie szanuje swojego kraju i jego dorobku nie jest nawet wart żeby na niego nasrać...💩

[@GazalAlShaqab]

Ultimate cyberpunk butt-stock! You can open a zombie's skull with it.

[@DaedalusHelios]

The front handguard is snap rivets securing rubber from running boards off a junkyard truck. 😂

[@PatrickKniesler]

I'd love to see something like this built for a common cartridge just for fun. Maybe if Brendan Hererra ever gets finished with the AK-50 he can give it a whack.