The Focus on the Family Guide to Childhood Indoctrination | Part 1: Why to Teach Kids Apologetics

Christian parents can be extremely neurotic about making sure their kids keep believing what mom and dad do. Of course we all want our kids to share our values to some extent, but evangelical culture and the heaven-and-hell stakes proposed by Christianity give believers unique reason to see even slight deviations in belief as a threat. This leads to extreme behaviors such as trying to shelter kids from "the world" or simply demanding they believe as you do. But Focus on the Family proposes a different approach, which is to teach kids apologetics, tell them they're free to explore, and express confidence that this is all okay because it will inevitably lead to them believing in Christianity. This sounds more open, but as I argue in this video, it's just the same expectation packaged in a murky way that creates confusion and distress for children.
This is part one of two videos discussing a four part series Focus on the Family "sent me" in an email offer. Today I deal with parts one and two of the series on the importance of apologetics and exposing your kids to "the world." Next week I'll finish up by addressing their videos about HOW to teach kids apologetics and the actual arguments their guest Natasha Crain thinks will work with them.
Here are the earlier videos I referenced in my video:
The problem of evil video I did with Paulogia: • Suffering and Evil: Th...
My "explains to babies" one about free will: • Prophet of Zod Explain...
The Focus on the Family "free series" can be found on this page: info.focusonth...
INTRO MUSIC CREDITS:
"The Game is On" by Ross Bugden (Copyright Free): • ♩♫ Epic Movie/TV Intro...
STUFF ABOUT ME AND WHERE TO FIND ME
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[@joshuaa7266]

The problem is that they aren't saying "You should learn for yourself what is true based on good evidence," it's "You should learn for yourself that we've been right all along." Telling someone they're free to doubt as long as they come to a certain conclusion isn't freedom, it's thought crime pretending to be freedom.

[@ProphetofZod]

Yep. If you expect them to believe something, just tell them from the start.

[@FakingANerve]

"It's thought crime pretending to be freedom." Well said! 🍻

[@skepticusmaximus184]

@@FakingANerve Just like the Orwellian newspeak "slavery is freedom".

[@julietfischer5056]

@@skepticusmaximus184 - Freedom is slavery.

[@nicolasandre9886]

Thought crime might be a little strong, it's more setting up for a confirmation bias in my opinion. But as you say, it is a problem, and a big one.

[@pigdog126]

"I don't want you to be a Christian because mommy and daddy are Christian, I want you to be a Christian because I believe that Christianity is true."

[@KaiHenningsen]

... that is, because she's a Christian.

[@Faint366]

It’s even worse than that. What she literally said immediately after “I don’t want you to be a Christian because mommy and daddy are Christian” is “it’s my job to teach you the truth of Christianity and show you that there’s so much undeniable evidence that I’ll teach you how to see.”

[@frankwilson3265]

@@Faint366 The point is made even clearer by removing the criteria she mentioned: I don't want you to be Christion for reason A, I want you to be a Christian for reason B.". The statement still defaults to, "I want you to be a Christian.", but the criteria she adds explicitly to imply the child must arrive at a predecided conclusion, but to convince her that she wasn't the one doing the deciding. Each and every parent who would do this would claim they are not indoctrinating their children, but there's a simply way to shake them out of their delusion, even if it's only momentarily: Ask them to define indoctination.

[@DrMakak]

For me the most shocking part is that after encountering so many points that poked at holes and inconsistencies in her beliefs, she didn't even for a second stop and think "holy shit am I believing it for the wrong reason? I need to look for more information" but instead "holy shit those people are making good points that might actually convince my children! I need to look for rebuttals"

[@kahlilbt]

THIS is why apologetics is disingenuous!!! I did the same thing for years until I realized that truth isn't putting your conclusions first

[@Faint366]

Wow. She literally goes “I told my kids I don’t want them ever thinking they’re Christian just because mommy and daddy are Christians” and then immediately follows with “but it’s my job to show you that Christianity is obviously true and there’s so much undeniable evidence that I’ll teach you to see that you’ll stay Christian.” These people have zero self awareness

[@gregcampwriter]

My father repeatedly threatened to throw me out of the house when he found out that I didn't believe in his Christianity. Natasha Crain makes it easier for people like my father to believe that they're good Christians.

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

Sounds like he's a failure of a parent to act like that over something that trivial.

[@busylivingnotdying]

@@totallyrandomhorror as to "not trivial to him obv". Yeah, and these doctrines of his are obviously less "trivial" than the wellbeing of his child.. Of couse, one might say that it is the SAFETY of his child he is concerned with, but then he wouldn't have to resort to threats, right?

[@jasonsabbath6996]

You can be a "good Christian" while simultaneously being a garbage human being! Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

[@curiouscelt]

When I finally told my parents I left Christianity it was rough. Fortunately I was living in Alaska at the time and my parents were 1000s of miles away. My dad and I have never talked about it. My mom's first response was "You're going to hell if you turn your back on Jesus." She still tries to talk me back into Christianity but, in general, she just leaves it alone.

[@busylivingnotdying]

@@curiouscelt if you go to hell for not believing correctly, then I’ll rather be there in hell with you than spending eternity with the one sending you there!

[@dj_tika]

She's also teaching her kid to confuse "I believe there is no God" with "I am not convinced there is a God" which is an important distinction to be able to think critically, it muddies the water and gets kids believing that everybody believes in something in the same way they believe in God.

[@Zahaqiel]

I think perhaps the biggest insight is how blog-mom phrased her search for a response to questions she'd never encountered before and her attitudes towards apologetics itself. "It bothered her a lot" that she "did not know how to answer those questions". As in, at no point did she feel she needed to consider that her position might need to be amended or corrected or altered. At no point did she consider that the people asking these questions might have anything legitimate to absorb or take on board. Her initial reaction was that she was already right - and not just going in the right direction but with room to improve, but _already completely right_ - but she just needed to learn _how_ she was right, so she could deploy that correctness on other people. That essential assumption of correctness is further demonstrated by her "realisation" about "how much more her kids need to know today". Again, not because her religion had evolved or discovered new truths or had become more complex, but because they need to know how to make other people know that they're wrong. The way she talks about learning apologetics, she didn't need to know it to be more correct - in fact she didn't need to know it at all for most of her life, and that was fine. _Other people_ have gotten more complicatedly wrong, and that's why _her kids_ need to know it today and she didn't need to know it until she was exposed to other viewpoints. Thinking on it, these seems to fit with a pattern of revealed religion. Christianity has a long tradition of relying on wise leaders to tell people what is true - an outsourcing of understanding. So apologetics is kind of in that same vein... the hand-me-downs of supposed wisdom. The trust in authority has already been instilled, so it's not a matter of engaging with challengers, it's a matter of receiving the wisdom and transmitting it on.

[@sgt.duke.mc_50]

Bravo!! 👏👏 Well said.

[@kiva2156]

My belief in hell caused me so much anxiety and depression, at one point in my life, I didn't want children. It was best for them to never exist than to risk ANY possibility they’d end up in eternal torment. I couldn't understand why other evangelical moms didn't think this way. Could Natasha Crain really experience eternal bliss if she knew one (or more) of her children was in neverending agony?

[@houghton841]

I feel the same. In fact, in my opinion the best thing any Christian parent can do is to abort any pregnancy. The fetus goes straight to Heaven as an innocent. Much better than risking them rejecting the faith later and ending up in Hell.

[@mrscience1409]

"here's what you say when someone says this..." "memorize these and what ever you do, do not think for yourself" Buy my book.

[@larryscarr3897]

Ha your out! You didn't say "Jesus says"😉

[@probablynotmyname8521]

I think the real problem for the religious is other religions. Exposing your kids to them can lead to questions like “why do other religions exist if mine is the true one?” This is much more likely to sow doubt than just flat atheistic doubt. It always gives me a chuckle how different religious sects consider other sects as being the “crazy” ones.

[@eh9618]

Guess that's why satanists works so well against religion.

[@bellezavudd]

True that. Yet Christians focus so much on atheists being the bad guys. Seems it's a safe target which allows them to focus away from their own issues and not wanting to appear attacking other people of FAITH.

[@billmorash3322]

When someone asks me why I believe something, I don't have to take a course on how to explain why I believe it. I already know why I believe it.

[@naysneedle5707]

And when my answer is "I think I heard/read it somewhere," my next action is always to consult Mr Google to see if I'm actually right 😅

[@PurpleRhymesWithOrange]

Excellent analysis. At age 5 a child has little concept of what "truth" means and about their only motivation is not to make their parents get loud.

[@grapeshot]

Yes I was introduced to Christianity at a very young age but thank goodness as I got older I started doing my own research it also helped that I joined the military and got to see the world and see things from another perspective. It helped immensely on my journey to atheism.

[@ProphetofZod]

Going into a different environment and meeting different kinds of people is huge. That's what going to college did for me (more than any specific thing I learned).

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@ReallyBadJuJu Combine this with how many Americans never travel - not even inside America, much less the rest of the world.

[@rendomstranger8698]

@@KaiHenningsen Correction, combine this with the fact that many American's *can't* travel, even inside America. There is a reason the US doesn't have any mandatory paid vacation days while pretty much every other country does. That reason is the same one that Americans are known as some of the most ignorant people on the world stage. It's all part of the indoctrination on which the US is build and which continues to this very day. Sadly, religion has a symbiotic relationship with said indoctrination. Especially religions that discourage critical thinking. In other words, the most harmful religions.

[@frankwilson3265]

This slips a vitally important point under the radar. Christian parants, like the one in the video, would claim that the person decided to change their mind about Christianity as they reached, or approached, adulthood. This is untrue. The parent made up the mind of that child when it was in a state of impressionable vulnerability. No choice was involved from the child's perspective, so no choice is necessary when the person's mind has reached a stage where they can objectively discern fact from fiction. The insidious part is that they apply false equivolence and fail to recognize that one of these things is passive (indoctrination) while the other is active (apostasy), and in turn fail to recognize that the child could never truly be considered to be Christian unless and until they were developed enough mentality to source the material themselves and accepted it as valid, without having it force-fed to them at every opportunity prior to that. Faith is defined as a belief in the truth of something in the absence of evidence, and even more so when it is despite evidence to the contrary, It's clear that parents in this mindset have "faith" that they don't indoctrinate their children, despite all the obvious evidence to the contrary. In this respect, their religion has given them an extensive skill-set to achieve this with a clear (albeit counterfeited) conscience.

[@TheNamesFathom]

@@ProphetofZodI’m late to the party, but my version of this was getting my first job. I was indoctrinated from the start, but being in an environment with people who couldn’t care less about the religion my family valued so highly was quite eye opening. I stopped believing entirely within a couple months of starting work there.

[@donsample1002]

When I was going through the confirmation process in my church when I was 16, we did get exposed to other belief systems. We got to go to a Baptist service, and a Lutheran service, and a Catholic service… but nothing so far out as say a Jewish or Islamic service. Then in the final meet with the minister before getting confirmed, I told him I wasn’t doing it, because I didn’t believe God was real. He was actually kinda chill with me saying that. He said something along the lines of “At least you’ve given it some thought” and made a half hearted attempt at a fine tuning argument with me.

[@janwoodward7360]

We were 14 and fell off the religion wagon over predestination and transubstantiation. Lutheran and Presbyterian. We decided those ideas were cruel and gross and that was the end for Christianity. Caps not mine…..spell checker gives unwarranted respect to those groups. Tell me how Xian’s are persecuted again?

[@donkink3114]

@@janwoodward7360 I make an extra effort to correct that shitty fact 😎

[@YY4Me133]

@Don Sample The minister might have been so chill about it because he was an atheist. There are apparently a lot of preachers who came to their senses, but have no other way to make a living, and might lose, not just their job, but also family and friends.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

A 3 year old dying of bone cancer while the parents weep is what we mean by fine tuning.

[@natsunohoshi7952]

@@janwoodward7360 They're supposed to be capitalized because that's how English works. Christians' persecution-complex has nothing to do with it.

[@elpretender1357]

When the mom was talking about how " she relies on evidece to be certain she is right, so there's no reason to fear kids having doubts" it reminded me a lot to one of your previous videos where you mention how christians keep changing "follow the evidence, but you must reach this conclusion" for "follow the evidence and you WILL reach this conclusion" when examining their doubts about their faith.

[@Szadek23]

I don't think christians would like where mt research took me. Like, I have yet to a verson christianity that's even scripturally sounds. They all ignore or add huge parts to the bible. Even JW and Young Earth Creationists. Don't tell me the bible is the whole truth and then ignore more than half the book while pulling the rest out of thin air.

[@ExvangelicalJess]

That sounds like the same argument that mormons use when saying that if you pray about the Book of Mormon with real intent, you WILL get a “burning in your bosom “ as proof of its truthfulness. If you don’t get that burning then you either haven’t prayed hard enough or didn’t really want to know (didn’t have real intentions). So basically they are saying that if you don’t come to the same conclusion and “truth” then it’s your own fault and you need to try harder. Christianity says that all you have to do is follow the evidence (which doesn’t exist) and you will come to the conclusion of the truth of said christianity. If you don’t, then you don’t understand something or you are ignoring the evidence and being willfully wrong. Either way (the truth of the BoM or christian faith) it’s your own fault. Funny how all these cults use the same tactics, if just using different words.

[@unumatochild]

Man, this hurts because this is exactly what happened to me as a little child.

[@pigdog126]

I feel sorry for this lady. Everyone in the neighborhood is an atheist, and finally someone knocks on her door who is not an atheist, but damn, they are a different kind of Christian than she is.

[@busylivingnotdying]

He he he, oh the humanity!

[@unkaumanguy1439]

And the dishonesty of her religion didn't even cross her mind.

[@nati0598]

She must feel so persecuted. Imagine what would happen if a Muslim moved in a few blocks away. That must be some kind of legal offense.

[@BFGGuy]

"me, me, me, right, right, right, awesome, awesome, awesome" That's all that ever goes through her head, day and night, month after month, year after year. Just trying to stave off the inevitable insanity that will come, either in the form of fear of death as it draws ever closer, or from not being able to convince herself she matters anymore once her precious little baby gifts from gawd are grown and gone, and she has empty nest syndrome

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

This is a fascinating (and unsettling) peek into childhood indoctrination

[@nati0598]

It's sad that the reason her children are indoctrinated is because she was that child once herself...

[@marcomoreno6748]

Unfortunately for many of us we got front-row seats and the opportunity to literally act in the play, plays of propaganda.

[@atticusrex2691]

It's amazing that they never stop and think about why no other fact has to have an entire system of arguments to make a case for them or defend their "truth".

[@larryscarr3897]

I have never seen a debate on the existence of electricity, now that you mention it.

[@JosephKano]

@@larryscarr3897 here, hold these two wires...

[@petitesayo4542]

@@larryscarr3897 You can't compare a phenomena that everyone can experience and see, with personal emotions that one interprets as divine signs. If you do, then you're clearly victim to your own cognitive bias and extremely dependant on your own emotions. Nobody is saying that their faith isn't true. Nobody is saying that fhey don't experience those emotions. We are merely questioning their INTERPRETATION of their own emotion. Nobody questions electricity because it's a fact. But begin to say that such electricity is actually proof that invisible little elfs exist and that voltage is their way to communicate with us and teach us morality, and people will question it. It someone told you that their anger was a gift from demons and their way to communicate and that it was proof of their existence, would you believe them ? If not, then why is faith rhe exception ? Faith is an emotion, nothing else. You can't just experience emotions and then act like those are proof of something else without providing evidence, just like you can't experience electricity and then claim that it's something else than a natural phenomena.

[@larryscarr3897]

@@petitesayo4542 no I'm saying your faith is not true, I can tell cuz how you use faith.. the religious definition of Faith that is.. belief without evidence or in the face of contradictory evidence.. Not the conflation with the other definition faith, meaning trust. If you need faith you don't have a good reason. See you can't even tell me what a god is, so you don't know anything at all about god, nobody does, most likely cuz god ain't.😉

[@DaveCM]

@@petitesayo4542 that is the thing. She talks about faith as if it is a verifiable fact when it is not. It absolutely is not. If she had facts, or there were any facts at all, there wouldn't be about 3,000 god claims nor about 30,000 variations of Christianity. There also wouldn't be atheists. But, religion is purely emotional and not based in reality nor facts. As mentioned in the comment above, faith is a belief in something without evidence.

[@onyxtay7246]

It feels so good to have someone recognize how kids can absolutely pick up on these cloaked threats from parents. The scars from being raised in an environment like that are still affecting me, and likely will for the rest of my life. That kind of trauma doesn't go away. The fawn response is just instinct now after so many years of being expected to do so.

[@kendrabueckert1750]

Omg we could be siblings!!

[@pissedoffdemocrat4940]

I learned too much about the Bible to be a Christian. Thank reason.

[@DutchJoan]

I wish you not so much luck but endurance to sit this one through @Prophet of Zod . I had to work out how to conduct myself when my children reached different conclusions from mine. I wanted them in on christianity with me but couldn't get them to do it by their own volition. Long story short, I left christianity and ultimately godbelief entirely, because their reasoning made more sense. Now I had learnt to listen to my children.

[@jessica153]

I'm 39 and didn't start to doubt my faith until my 30s. I grew up with Baptist minister dad. The pressure to stay a christian and on top of that the same type of denomination they are because that's the only right one never goes away. I just keep my views to myself in my family.

[@laurajarrell6187]

People don't seem to understand semantics. They keep saying 'convicted' instead of convinced. This sounds as authoritarian as it really is! And Zod, beautiful outro, wow! And of course, I love your responses. You want your children to be independent critical thinkers. Unfortunately, too many victims of religion are terrified their children might become that. They might learn more than their parents, oh no! And yet I do pity the parents who've been terrorized by the fear of hell. It is devastating, this fear, and can lead too often to violence, abuse, even death. And that is why Atheist creators must keep on , ad nauseum! 👍👏💖🥰✌

[@FakingANerve]

It appears to be a growing commonality in Christian communities, and it's truly odd. I wince a little bit every time I hear somebody replace "convinced" with "convicted."

[@corvuscorax7451]

It's religious lingo. Seems to be more common among evangelicals, you'll hear it sometimes if you pay attention to them. Basically they just mean they have a strong conviction about something.

[@lsmmoore1]

Parents do kill their kids over this, btw. The idealized logical extension of their beliefs is that the best way to save someone from the fiery depths of hell is to get them baptized as a Christian as a child so they have that entree into heaven that aborted fetuses don't get in the strictest sects - and then kill them shortly after. And lo and behold, there are moms who were arrested for killing all their kids when said kids were young enough they would still be "in the faith" - moms who were fervent and who, instead of becoming atheists or deconstructing, followed that fervency right off a cliff.

[@EternalDensity]

yeah I read an article in which a detransitioned trans person said he was happily trans until finding christianity and being convicted of his sin. convicted? no, I'm sure he was guilted, hounded, and lovebombed with conditional kindness until he became convinced. and now he's passing that cruelty onto others. tragic and disgusting.

[@laurajarrell6187]

@@EternalDensity That is so terribly sad! 😪💙✌

[@clemstevenson]

This demonstrates how dishonest parents can be. Claiming that something is true, at the same time as claiming that this particular ‘truth’ is a matter of faith, only serves to highlight the parent’s lack of intellectual discipline. Sincere beliefs are not an indication of factuality. Indeed, the statement “the truth of our faith” is just about as irrational as you can get. Assuming a conclusion, without first gathering the necessary supporting evidence, is exactly what religious institutions want followers to do. It’s not at all surprising that there are so many contradictory beliefs, given that a religious ‘truth’ is nothing more than a belief that is presented as a fact.

[@DavidRichardson153]

I was confirmed at 16, and looking back, that was the beginning of the end of my faith. Up until then, I was becoming quite the apologist, and I was spouting a lot of the same points you would hear from them. Really, to certain extents, I could have been mistaken as a JW (even contemplated missionary work for a time). However, that same year I was confirmed, I was a junior at my Catholic high school (was there for all of my high school years). My high school was rather different from most religious or even just Catholic schools. First, it was run by an order of brothers, which is not something you hear of often in the US (or at least not in Texas - yeah, it was that bad of a case for me). Second, this order was adamant that a strong, wide, and solid foundation based on earthly knowledge and reason was critical to spiritual well-being, that true belief in God or Christ (or any diety, as some of the teachers there said) cannot be achieved until you eliminate sources of desperation in your life and those of others - i.e. elevating people out of poverty, eliminating risks of diseases through medicine and vaccines, etc. So yeah, my high school was pretty different, and because I graduated from there over 15 years ago, I wonder and fear that this message and mission, which can easily work under any supposed "higher calling" (but at its core is rather secular) might be lost. While they never disparaged missionary work in any big way, they did say that it is really only good at the local level, which undoubtedly can help at that level but is otherwise likely to not amount to anything truly meaningful or impactful, especially if that local work still does not solve the local problem, like how supplying and working a food bank ultimately means nothing if the people who reguarly use the food bank are being purposefully kept in a position that forces them to have to use it regularly. It certainly made me start questioning what I should really do, what I should believe, and what I should support, and faith in the Christian god...well, it ended up as collateral. It did not end my faith - that came years later - but given that this was a Catholic school, you could say it was fratricide (in the military sense - a rather large portion of the teachers and staff there were veterans). It did not help that up until my confirmation, I remembered the story told about my late grandfather, who was said to have seen and followed Jesus out of his body in his final moments. At the time, I was about as uninformed about the world and human behavior as you could expect from such a setting and background, so I had believed that story was something special to Christianity. However, just days after my confirmation, my teachers, especially my theology ones, most of whom were ordained ministers, were effectively warning us students about the dangers of relying on God or Christ for everything, especially for answers. At the same time, we reached a point in my psychology/sociology elective that somehow brought up the aforementioned story of this section, and how it was hardly unique to Christianity or anywhere in the world. That was my first "If all is super, then nothing is super" moment (yeah, I channeled a bit of Syndrome then and there), and while it did not bring the giant Jenga tower that was my faith crashing down, it did cause the first real wobble in it. That was certainly the beginning of the end of my run with apologetics, and though the actual end to it and my prior faith did not come until I was getting ready to graduate with my first degree, and throughout then and since, I have been seeing all of those same points about apologetics that were outlined in this video, and it has only made me glad that I got out of it when I did. It may not have been without help from those like my teachers and others, but it still happened.

[@lars_larsen]

Those poor kids growing up in highly religious communities and families and getting conditioned to behave in a deplorable manner towards anyone who believe even slightly differently from them... they will likely, much like their parents, think that their religion is why people who believe differently don't like them and never understand that how they treat others could be why people who believe differently don't like them.

[@willjapheth23789]

They have to be obnoxious and pushy until they are persecuted, so they can think they are good Christians.

[@seraphjohanson3402]

The implication is also that she’ll think her kids are idiots if they can’t perceive the obvious evidence that’s supposedly everywhere. She might as well have told them “go ahead and doubt, but you’re foolish to do so.”

[@DaveCM]

I find her troublesome. I grew up in an environment similar to that which included physical abuse. I am 52 and my therapist is starting to unravel much of it. My mother was a horrible mother but she honestly believes she was doing the right thing as she believes God commands her to raise kids in that manner. She read a lot of Dr. James Dobson and Focus on the Family when I was a kid.

[@bellezavudd]

More people need to realise just how often horrible parents truly believe that they really are good parents .

[@blueboi5140]

I'll just go online and try to figure out how to defend what I already believe is true instead of seeking whether or not the belief itself is true.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

“And then everybody clapped” is the only way to end ever christian story. Zod how are you so hip with the zoomer humor. I only learned the meaning of that phrase this week from a Sarah Zed video. And I’m so thankful because that line killed me 🤣

[@debhalverson3956]

I was raised as an RLDS member, with a mom who had been raised a Utah Mormon. Mom had left the church in early adulthood. Mom had never stopped believing in god, but had believed that- as only Mormons and other offshoots can understand, I think- "His" church was no longer on this planet. IOW, We had our chance to restore the "True Church" and we blew it. Then she was converted to RLDS (THAT was a shocker!), now known as Community of Christ. My mom was a wise, wonderful, and I used to say "The Last True Christian". If you needed help, she gave it. If you needed sanctuary, you got it, and you got at the least a cup of tea, a meal, and a lady who would listen to you with no judgement. Seriously, we even had a guy who made fun of me in school show up being all apologetic, and Mom insisted we give him the help we could. I was appalled, but... ok. You always knew you had to head with heart. Mom's main motto with religion was: "Study other religions. Other philosophies. Other beliefs. If you don't come back with a stronger belief in your own faith, you have the wrong faith." Pretty solid coming from my Mom. She meant it, too. Long to short: I spent a good deal of time doing "apologetics" for the RLDS, even thinking I was doing "good research!" It has taken me until my early 60's to finally face the doubts and see more clearly: not only about the church, but about god and gods and other woowoo. I cannot blame mom for her stance. I know how easy it is to fall into the apologetics and never quite see past them. Even when you have those niggly doubts that you logic-pocket and stuff out of mind for decades, perhaps a lifetime.

[@greglogan7706]

As a non evangelical Christian theist, I find This is a super well-thought-out presentation by the prophet

[@j.christie2594]

🤔🤨.. 🤪.... this profit, you yap about? This channel, is about Reality, beg your Pardon, but I think, you have been Exploited Mentally , by alien whore$hip, Exploiting the Weaker of Mind and Spirit..

[@fudgesauce]

At 22:45 she says: "I don't want you to ever grow up and think that you are a Christian because mommy and daddy were Christians." On the surface, that sounds commendable. PoZ addresses this well, but I wanted to add a bit more (actually stopped the video at that point and wrote my thoughts before hearing PoZ's comments). Her statement already communicates to the child that the future version of them is a Christian. The second thing is an assumption, but is a safe assumption. Probably at every meal they pray and give thanks to Jesus; probably at every bedtime she leads the children in prayer to Jesus; probably every week she takes them to church where they hear about Jesus; at that church they will hear that if they don't believe in Jesus they will be punished in hell for an eternity. Yet she pats herself on the back that she has an open mind and is letting them think for themselves.

[@milkenobi]

Apologetics are honestly like a martial art devoted to defending oneself from strawmen. Their arguments hold up in their little bubble but they fall apart after first contact with reality

[@derman1907]

Pretty much. I see apologetics as inventing a system of excuses as for why a position doesn’t match evidence or reality

[@rvoight92]

Apologetics is less about teaching people to defend their faith and more about conditioning people that there is no reason doubt the faith they were raised in

[@nati0598]

I never understood they word "apologetic". Like, what are you apologizing for? Lack of arguments? Thanks, but that doesn't change the fact you don't have them xD

[@yadabub]

"...I learned about the rich answers, about the truth of our faith...." That's rich!

[@jaminelvers7250]

I feel like a lot of my life was ruined by Focus on the Family and I'm not emotionally ready to view this yet, so I'm giving you engagement with a comment and like instead.

[@soonerarrow]

With patience, this too shall pass. You're not required to forgive those who did this to you but holding onto those feelings and thoughts, may slow your progress forward. I still harbor animosity towards Christian's, not for what they _DID_ to me but what they're _DOING_ now that harm others and they're still trying to jam their beliefs down my throat without my permission.

[@qwertydog9795]

Focus on the Family was the linchpin of my entire childhood and I'm still salty about it!

[@EternalDensity]

"...and I'm Chris, hoping you'll join us next time for more adVENtures in Odysseyyy."

[@vince6062]

I have a good friend (Born again) who gets personally offended when I refer to the truth of religious indoctrination... I suppose the fact he gets offended and defensive at the mere mention of the word is rather telling, isn't it?

[@salwillis3529]

Thank you for covering this... We need a parents handbook for teaching critical thinking!

[@wandaru]

Imagine if kids are taught critical thinking as the same frequency as sunday school is. We would not have issues of church doctrines getting their way into public schools and into government legislations. Religion is really the craziest idea bequeathed to us by our superstitious earlier generations. I am hopeful of a future where christianity or islam would be just another mythology in the minds of people.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

I think critical thinking needs to be taught no later than junior high school.

[@feradun2849]

You do realize that there are other religions that allow you to think for yourself. Sikhism and Zoroastrianism, for example. Zoroaster explicitly teaches open- mindedness, for example.

[@sandeman1776]

@@feradun2849 Zoroastrianism/Zarathustra has one big problem with their "open-mindedness." They don't convert and they don't marry outside of their religion. That's kinda why there's only about 200,000 of them world wide. It's nice to see a religion with an expiration date. While Zoroastrianism isn't nearly as damaging as evangelicalism, it's still an outdated religion and it's going in the correct direction. As they all should.

[@feradun2849]

@@sandeman1776 First of all there is no scriptural justice for what the Parsi's believe about conversion- the Gathas of Zarathustra are clearly pro- conversion. I am, in fact, not a Parsi, I am not even an ethnic Iranian, and I live in the west- to me, Zoroastrianism it is a personal belief, as Ahura Mazda, unlike the Aberhamic god, values your Good Thoughts, Good Words, and Good Deeds far more than any ritual or prayer. This obsession with ritual, while there is great evil happening around you, is exactly what Zarathustra was rebelling against. and, as for the bit about Zoroastrianism being a dying religion, Zoroastrianism is actually the fastest growing religion in the world by conversions alone, as Zoroastrianism is the only religion growing primarily by conversion. Over 7% of Iran's population is Zoroastrian, and that number is growing. Zoroastrianism is also growing in Kurdistan- both in response to the barbaric practices of Islam, as the Gathas explitily state that God has no need for your worship, that you are God's co worker, and that men and women are equal, as opposed to the monsterous, false Aberhamic "God" AKA Angra Mainyu. And I think and hope that Zoroastrianism will free the Middle East from the chains of Islam. Zoroastrianism is growing in Kurdistan www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/210920163 It is also growing in Iran swarajyamag.com/culture/the-religion-that-the-iranian-mullahs-fear-most

[@sandeman1776]

@@feradun2849 while I appreciate the Zoroastrianist non-worship doctrine, it did used to be the dominant religion in the middle east. I would posit that the rise of Zoroastrianism in other areas is probably due to them being run out of the Islamic dominated region. It's sad that such a peaceful and introspective religion is falling by the wayside, but being peaceful isn't how you grow and spread ideas in this violent ass world.

[@cplus14]

"I was just musing about how stoning the gays was acceptable in bible times, and wondering why we couldn't go back to that, since we're a Christian nation and all, when these mean old athiests started attacking me for my Sincerely Held Beliefs tm"

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah. :D Even if it wasn't exactly that, I doubt she had any sense of how controversial or at least arguable her points were.

[@stevewebber707]

I'm suspecting it may have been more along the lines of "Abortion is murder", or "gay marriage is destroying our culture". But point taken and agreed.

[@cplus14]

@@stevewebber707 That's the thing; they love being vocal about what the "problem" is, but they're usually weirdly silent about what solution they're looking for.

[@willjapheth23789]

One of the few specific examples of stoning in the Bible was a dude who picked up sticks on sabbath, Yahweh himself even ordered the execution.

[@LM-jz9vh]

@@willjapheth23789 Good old "loving" Yahweh. *This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. *It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! *Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). ***This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.*** ***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. *Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:* For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.* The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. *And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page. *If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.* www.evilbible.com/

[@warrena8672]

my parents are non-denominational christians and did not want us to believe in christianity because of them. thankfully my parents allowed me to ask lots of questions. the only part I did not feel comfortable doing was telling them I did not believe in God or Christianity until I was eighteen and personally I stopped believing at 16 and that led me to atheism and my sister became an agnostic

[@martifingers]

Hi Warren. I am curious to know how things worked out with your relationship in the longer term. Good I hope!

[@warrena8672]

@@martifingers I have a good relationship with them. They have accepted it. Obviously they were somewhat surprised I was atheist but they didn't try to make me reconvert. They were more interested in why I left Christianity. I told them because of a lack of scientific evidence of God. Contradictions, logical fallacies and questionable ethics in the bible. Also I believe the evangelical environment I grew up around in northeast Georgia made me see a large amount of hypocrisy from Christians. They did push back some but I was able to show them that this was a calculated decision. I do believe my mother being a pediatrician and my father a mechanical engineer helped.

[@martifingers]

Very good indeed. The subtle psychological violence that is portrayed here could not be more important , it seems to me. It obviously serves a key purpose for the mother which I would surmise would be a reduction in her existential anxiety in all sorts of ways. For example, after all she will have fulfilled the important function of transmitting the culture that gives her life meaning and status. Because of recent socio-political events, I am also wondering what this form of psychological control means at the level of communities. Any erosion or weakening of this ideology (eg the growth of "no's", the numbers of prominent Christians deconstructing, the sharpening of divisions over BLM, non-binary sexuality etc. etc.) will be seen as very threatening. Is this connected to the reactionary backlash that seems to be building?

[@douglaswise6797]

Part 2 is particularly disturbing. Compare that to Sean and Josh McDowell's story about how he approached his dad with doubts and his dad told him that whatever decision he comes to, that he would love his son either way. I didn't hear a single sentiment of that mentality in her presentation.

[@monsterguyx6322]

All children grow up in a world that is increasingly different to the world their parents grew up in, will face new challenges, and will likely be exposed to more numerous and varied ideas than their parents were. Reactionary politics and regressive religious tenets are feeble attempts to hold on to an illusion of stability; they impede human progress, and should be resisted.

[@Malidictus]

This sounds like it's unrelated, but give me a moment - I'm going somewhere with it. I live in Bulgaria. At the start of the war in Ukraine, everyone was worried about potentially being a target of Russian aggression. The Russian ambassador reassured us with the word "You don't have NATO troops on your territory, so you have nothing to worry about." I think the implied threat there is plain to see. "If you did have NATO troops on your territory, then you might have something to worry about." To me, the same applies here. "You know that Christianity is true, so you have nothing to worry about." The implied threat, however unintentional, is this: "If you stop believing that Christianity is true, you might have something to worry about." This isn't letting children experience the world first-hand and draw their own conclusion. It's giving them a desired conclusion and explicitly guaranteeing safety ONLY if they can reach that conclusion. If they can't or don't reach that conclusion... well, there's no guarantee of safety then

[@grannykiminalaska]

What you describe as your approach is exactly how I was raised.

[@j.christie2594]

😬 sorry. Cheer's too Brighter Day's..

[@grannykiminalaska]

@@j.christie2594 what zod described as his approach to raising kids. It was awesome. No shame, no fear, no question was out of bounds, no fact based opinion was wrong. I always felt loved and respected

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

23:23 "If christianity is true, there is nothing to fear" Here she is teaching her kids to be afraid of the idea of christianity not being true.

[@littlecoloreddots]

Wow. Thanks for this. So hard to know what is the best way to present these ideas to your children. I agonized over not pushing in any direction and crossed my fingers my child would come up with her own reasonable take on all of it. Much as I hate to admit it, I was relying on some faith that my daughter could figure it out. Happily she did but I'm sure that is because we present lots of perspectives. Seeing that there were lots, she could tell that we did not endorse any single one. Now she doesn't either (thank goodness :-).

[@susansteinkraus2821]

Best video you've ever done, Zod. Very insightful. Focus on the Family is a worthy opponent, definitely warrants our attention and counter apologetics. I am looking forward to the next two segments! Thank you!

[@uuuuunnnnhhhhhblah]

That last bit was so hard to watch--this woman's approach might as well have been my mom's. When she found out I had become an atheist, the only way she could be consoled was by the idea that I might get so blown away by the evidence that I'll come back. I can't talk to her anymore because I know so thoroughly that I am "just another one of those wrong people" to her now, and she can't really hear anything I say. It really helps to hear someone else going through how insidious this all is

[@scottgrohs5940]

If she had this much trouble with a JW, then just wait until her kids visit a Buddhist temple on a field trip and try meditation.

[@Nsaf_UKR]

I remember being taught apologetics in middle and Highschool, it seemed silly to not research anything about “The World” . Instead we just memorized supposed zingers for tough questions we weren’t allowed to question. (edit Thank you for 100 likes, This is your sign to go VEGAN

[@ProphetofZod]

That sums up most of the "training" in this video.

[@taylorlibby7642]

Yeah, I went to Southern Baptist and Catholic schools. This is the kind of stuff we'd be subjected to every day in either place, just with slightly different flavors.

[@willjapheth23789]

What were some of the zingers?

[@darwinskeeper421]

I thought Zingers were supposed to be those Twinkie like snack cakes that Dolly Madison sold.

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

@@willjapheth23789 I don't have enough faith to be an atheist But you believe [blank] Do you think [blank] could happen by mere chance? You just want to [blank] You are so close minded that you don't even consider [blank] Science can't even explain [blank] ________________________ You get the idea.

[@Holl-vi6hw]

Apologetics are directly what led to me deconverting. I dug into the arguments and realized they all suffered from critical flaws, which started my questioning and ALSO watching christian vs. Atheist debates. Researching all sides while taking a course on critical thinking was immensely impactful. Now I'm just agnostic :)

[@thetypingape2073]

I dunno whats going on but this intro is awesome.

[@LogicAndReason2025]

"When religious people are fighting each-other, I'm a happy guy. " - G. Carlin

[@Marconius6]

I would guess the reason Christian parents don't let their kids watch atheist content is because atheist arguments actually... make sense and work in the real world. So it's not exactly a symmetrical situation.

[@evinchester7820]

Been an atheist since the age of 7. My parents never forced religion on me. Did go attend a church for a couple of months once. Wasn't impressed with it. Was in the third grade. Was asked by my mom if I wanted to continue. I said, "No." So I was never exposed to this stuff. But then, when I was 5 I was beginning to understand that Santa wasn't real as well. Nor the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Ghosts, trolls, and so on. I would never expose a child to any of this. I look upon it as abuse, intimidation, and fear mongering.

[@Excultbaby]

The really ironic thing is that my religious mother spoke and thought and taught me ans my siblings very similarly to this woman... and my mother is a Jehovah's Witness.

[@mathnerd97]

"I was the nicest guy in the world and they ruined my life for no reason." Christianity is basically a religion-sized Kuzco.

[@nati0598]

"Why God allows evil?" "To allow you to choose" "Ok, then I choose the one that doesn't stand idly by when disasters struck" "Wait, hold on..."

[@girlwithtehface5880]

That version of your theme music is pretty ominous, Zod. It's beautiful in a haunting way. Well done.

[@tetsujin_144]

15:30 - "JW said everybody they encounter going door-to-door was an atheist" "Sounds like either Natasha is BSing us or the JW was BSing us or everyone in the neighborhood was lying to get rid of the JWs" All reasonable propositions. Both Natasha and the JW have motivations to exaggerate the sense that everyone around them is atheist in order to promote their respective messages, and who wouldn't want to get rid of obnoxious cultists at the door? But it's also possible, for instance, that the JWs set out on their expedition *expecting* a lot of the people they met to be atheists, and encountered at least a few atheists during the day, maybe also some "Christian but not serious about it" types as well, and confirmation bias turned this into a story of being absolutely surrounded by atheists. Or, even simpler, it could be hyperbole meant to emphasize their feeling of being surrounded by nonbelievers. Even if what the JWs said was incorrect it wasn't necessarily dishonest.

[@corvuscorax7451]

That detail stood out to me too. I'd rather like to live in a neighborhood where everyone around me is an atheist and doesn't mind saying so! Alas and alack, I think somebody in that story was fibbing.

[@cerberaodollam]

Or they think anyone who isn't a JW is atheist?

[@gerrye114]

Isn't going door to door finding only athiest the goal for JWs?

[@ExvangelicalJess]

Admittedly, I have had only very limited contact with JWs, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but I gathered that JWs think that anyone, regardless of their religion or lack of it, who don’t believe JW doctrine is an atheist (thus their knocking on doors to try to convert everyone).

[@laurajarrell6187]

As usual, I don't get to join the live! But I saw and recognized many. We have such great commenters in this community! I actually love, real feelings!, many of them. Plus, they help support great creators like Prophet of Zod! So kudos, great video, great audience, and thankyou. To Zod and supporters alike! 👍❤👏👏🥰✌

[@sussekind9717]

9:22 - If parents had the same attitude, when it's time to conduct "the talk" there would be a lot less health and pregnancy issues, not to mention some very uncomfortable situations, just to say the least.

[@aazhie]

My dad is very conservative, and probably more now than when I was a kid. But we had complex discussions about how even parents and authorities can be wrong. How it was important for everyone to figure out the intricacies of morality. He's way more of a Pascal's Wager type of "religious" but he was the first one to advocate us not having to go to church all the time. I'm always happy to hear you say you let your kids explore things and only give your own reasons for your own conclusions. My dad and I disagree on a lot, but weirdly the way we talked about morals, religion and politics allowed me to be my own person. I'm transgender and my parents aren't absolute jerks about it, even if they are fairly clueless. Always been grateful for that, regardless of other disagreements

[@zuglymonster]

"You can choose how to follow" Right because NO Christian has ever done anything bad, ever

[@johndemeritt3460]

Zod, when you talked about people having "canned answers", I was hoping to see an image of a bunch of cans labeled "Answers".

[@MrTossy]

Thank you, Zod. I always enjoy hearing your perspective on these things.

[@kaldrake2167]

The problem of evil and problem of divine hiddenness are great arguments against an all knowing, all powerful, morally good god.

[@hadishstreet3066]

Excellent as ever PoZ very thoughtful and though provoking. I'm so grateful my mum started me off with audiobooks of the Egyptian, Greco-Roman and Norse pantheons when I was little. They (along with other parts of my home life) served as an inoculation against religion

[@burnerdaughter]

Dude I was so excited when I saw the topic you were planning to cover next and you did not disappoint. I can't wait for the next video.

[@maxgrivno5987]

I suspect this will used a training video for public school teachers in about two or three months.

[@Limited_Light]

:(

[@davidk7529]

F on the F majorly contributed to the trashing of my childhood. That’s 19 years down the drain, with nothing to show for it but a lifetime of shitty backlash.

[@richardctaylor79]

9:22 did she just state that their spiritual lives are more important than their physical and mental health.... wtf?

[@Chamelionroses]

Started watching "One of Us" on Netflix...I can see that fear of secular anything but people making kids ignorant instead about things that exist being worse for many.

[@paulshort6756]

I was one of the early atheists on her blog. She loathed me.

[@mikaela5938]

this person reminds me a lot of my mom and all the trauma I've received from her since i started questioning Christianity and eventually disbelieving it. and then there's all the trauma ive gotten because i foolishly thought that she might be willing to change from her prejudices when i try talking to her about my identity as a trans woman

[@adamkreuz9068]

I am so glad my folks gave me the choice. I even asked my mom and she said she wanted us to figure it out on our own. Never forced us to church or anything else. They are right wing as fuck too

[@lancearmstrong7864]

I agree. Most Christians don't read the bible. Reading the bible will makes these children atheists 😅

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

Probably. I read it and I was deeply annoyed at how contradictory and incoherrent it was. It's no wonder theres about 41,000 different Christian denominations. I'm not even joking.

[@frankwilson3265]

Very true. They're very quick to point to a quote from The Bible which is in line with the stance they take on a certain subject. But how many rush to quote how Lot offered up his daughters to be raped by the lust-thirsty hoards in Sodom so the angels present would be left alone, or how a husband can take his wife to her father's door to stone that wife to death in front of him, if that wife displeases him? Not many I'd wager.

[@rustkitty]

Wow, when she talked about "other ideas" from "the world" I thought she means from the other world religions. Definitely didn't expect JW! Talk about insular! Even though the rest of Christiandom disagrees, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christian too. So she couldn't even reach the low water mark of exposing the kids to a worldview that doesn't follow Jesus.

[@mugglescakesniffer3943]

Kids should not be burdened with apologetics unless they are interested in it.

[@EvilGuacamoleGaming]

I want sure what I would be getting with this video but I like it. I'm agnostic Christian; I believe in Christianity but do not have the audacity to claim there is no doubt and happily support all beliefs including the lack there of. As such I often find solace in atheist content since I find Christian certainty dangerous and frustrating. However, at times it can (though thankfully infrequently) be very demeaning towards any faith. You've done well that I feel respected while still effectively speaking to your point.

[@bad_bau]

the fact that their idea of "non-Christian" is a Jehovah Witness says a lot

[@imthatjay]

Crazy thing is she would be an example of a non-Christian to a Jehovah's Witness.

[@bradypustridactylus488]

When your research is conducted with the goal of building a case, your main interest will not be expanding your knowledge. On the other hand, if your research is conducted with the goal of expanding your knowledge, you will grow suspicious of writers who impose moral injunctions on their readers. Is your ultimate goal being rooted in place or having the ability to move forward?

[@ProphetofZod]

Very well said. You can dress up the goal to stick to a specific conclusion however you want, but that won't change what it is.

[@jeffgraham9208]

Great work! My children are in their 20s now, but they were just answered honestly, although I can’t remove my biases they were encouraged to accept Sunday, or Saturday invitations. Fortunate for the learning experience, I refer to where I live as the Buckle of the Bible Belt. Weirdly enough they seem to contribute to society and just don’t really think about “god” stuff. Sorry, just seemed we parent(ed) similarly.

[@rustkitty]

"her children deviating from the religion she has chosen for them" Come on, as if she _chose_ Christianity!

[@merbst]

Lying to children is wrong, whether it be about Santa Claus or the ghost in the sky.

[@sandeman1776]

At least Santa Claus is fun and people grow out of believing in him.

[@sandeman1776]

@Michael Fox there were no straw men here. Just a fat, jolly fella(Santa Claus) and an invisible genocide factory(Yahweh).

[@merbst]

@Michael Fox Who are you talking to? What are you talking about?

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

To the JWs, she was the "World". And Wrong.

[@ProphetofZod]

Now we need that picture of three spider-men pointing at each other calling each other "the world."

[@Oswlek]

Steve Shives did a review of one of Natasha's books. It was a persuasive as you imagine it to be.

[@MrCanis4]

And the rest of the world will move on. I feel sorry for these children.

[@fujin27]

Good luck for part 2!

[@DerkMiester]

Ok, can we just appreciate the awesome piano outro of your theme song? That was great!

[@johnloftin2461]

i stumbled into apologetics as a teenager. The problem with apologetics is the defenses learned are only in a specific context and don't ever get to the heart of the matter. If anything ruined god for me, it's apologetics. I only learned to use cheap excuses for complex existential problems. The problems don't go away no matter how many catchy 3 point presentations you watch and/or present. It's a weak defense for an indefensible faith.

[@Thoron_of_Neto]

Yup, perfect words to sum up my experience leaving Christianity

[@Unhandled_Exception]

"There is so much evidence for the existence of god that it is my job to help you see that truth yourself"..... Huh?? What?? If there is so much evidence than why can't I (and everyone else) just see it for themselves???

[@theblackswan2373]

I have come to greatly appreciate your style of presentation, and ideas. Well done Sir! TBS

[@johnbiggscr]

I dont know when this was recorded but it’s very timely based on the latest roe vs wade information coming out.

[@Marniwheeler]

Good video. Fantastic outro music. Thank you.

[@domecrack]

Good luck, Proph. Zod

[@domecrack]

Also yes this is helping. I don't exactly know all of the reasons why I've been digesting entire channels of counteralologetics content every day for like a solid three months, but I think it's helping me tease out why I'm like I am, so that I can finally decide what to do about it. Well into middle age. I've also learned a lot about the norms of argumentation, which I apparently previously knew nothing about, and I think I've been possibly bracing myself in case my mom wants to argue about religion one more time before she dies. I think we're both avoiding the subject, but I can't imagine she has more than this summer left under any circumstances, and I don't want to get blindsided again.

[@domecrack]

I effed things up so badly last time, I don't want it to descend into bluffing and ad hominems if it comes up again.