Why Apologetics Fails at Brainwashing: The Focus on the Family Guide to Childhood Indoctrination Pt2

[@vincepurser764]

Remember kids... Free will is so fragile that if God clearly demonstrated he exists, it would destroy it... but so robust it can simultaneously exist when the same God puts morality in your mind through thoughts and intuitions impossible to distinguish from your own....

[@benjohnis]

Free will is knowing God exists and choosing your path. Christianity manipulates the reality of free will by claiming you lose it if God reveals himself. I would be more concerned that God already knows every decision you'll ever make, creating the illusion of free will despite your destiny being predetermined.

[@nataliaturner4845]

@@benjohnis 💯

[@G_Demolished]

@@benjohnis It’s even worse than that. If the Bible were true, God’s “divine plan” has this baked into it: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter.” He knew in advance that _MOST_ people would reject him and burn forever. Pretty sick.

[@afkcnd2395]

​@@G_DemolishedAs a Christian I find if wonderful that atheist understand how frightening God is better thant most christians You really are fascinating

[@BrianGay57]

@@afkcnd2395 Most America atheists are ex-Christians who actually read their bibles.

[@unumatochild]

I've spent years struggling with growing up with this. Being an autistic kid who had a really difficult time relating to other people, I had no idea what the social "rules" were for relating to God and how I was supposed to interact with him. My understanding of the parental relationship was also really messed up just because of the way they were raising me, so I ended up just internalizing a bunch of garbage, anyway. "You should only care about the Bible and God as much as you care about your special interests -- That's idolatry." "You're not trying hard enough to make friends in youth group, that's why no one likes you. If you opened up more, people would care about you more." "Your chest is too big for you to wear print on your t-shirts. Do you want to tempt your Christian Brothers to sin?" "You should use your memory for the glory of God by being on Bible Quiz team instead of memorizing other sorts of things, because those other things don't matter as much as your ability to glorify god through your good memory!" Isolated, alone, with a chip on my shoulder, obsessed with the Biblical rules because they were the only ones I could cling to and the only way I could ever please my parents and keep peace in the house, I became even more unlikable and isolated than I would have been otherwise. I was insufferable, horrible, and a complete wreck for a very, very long time. And when I finally did get friends, I only remember crying out to God to please, please give me over to my sin for JUST awhile because I didn't want to lose this. And when those same friends abandoned me only months later? I felt that it was an answer to my prayer, that he was punishing me for being selfish. This was when I was 17/18. I am 29 now, and only just beginning to unravel what I was forced to become by the parents who indoctrinated me.

[@vinx.9099]

autism an christianity is such a terrible combination. it makes good parent meh and bad parents life long trauma. Good your figuring this out now and enjoy being a normal autistic disaster (:

[@annk.8750]

I never heard the "print on the t-shirt" thing before. But my family was once at a motel which was occupied by a bus load of Baptist teenagers, and when we went to the pool I found that the girls in the group had to wear a T-shirt over their bathing suit. I can tell you that a Baptist in a wet t-shirt is not notably more modest than a Baptist in just a bathing suit!

[@unumatochild]

@@vinx.9099 It's a learning curve. I've been tormented by the black and white world view that was forced on me for years when most of the things I ended up believing were in direct contrast with God's morality. Autistic people already see things in a pretty black and white way without the concerted effort not to, so it was really damn hard for me to reconcile the two things and grow beyond the arbitrary morality forced on me. Being exposed to people different than me who challenged my view of myself and forced me to realize that I was unintentionally hurting people and that people saw me differently than I saw myself really helped. But I am enjoying it. Indulging shamelessly in my special interests without fear of being called an idolator is a great part of it, I'm finding.

[@unumatochild]

@@annk.8750 Oh yeah. It was really insane, honestly - I was so ashamed to be singled out like that. No good comes from being told you're a constant billboard of sexual signals that can turn men into monsters. Hilariously, I ended up being trans, anyway, so it's not like she was giving me the "right" advice. Even more hilariously, I'm gay, so women's bodies meant nothing to me anyway.

[@stylis666]

Well, _I_ like you. You seem kind, thoughtful, generous, intelligent, eager to learn, and much more. I'm sorry to read the mental and emotional horror stories you've told here and I can't help but think it's not even scratching the surface of what's going on in your life and has gone on. What does make me very happy though, is to see how well you already understand a lot of it and yourself so well - no many people do. You did that. You've worked for that. Maybe with a lot of help and support from others, but the work and the results (so far) are all you. The way you put it to words so clearly, not many people are able to do that either. You're risking and giving up a lot by giving in to honesty and integrity. I don't know much about you, but I do like about you what I do know. I am glad to have read your horror stories. I am sorry that you've lived them and are still carrying the consequences undeservingly and will for quite some time, but I'm glad that you've shared them. People need to know that faith isn't some harmless belief in a kind and loving being that comforts you wherever you are. If it's any actual comfort, you'll be in rough water for a long time, but we, as a species, don't rely on gods to get through bad shit - we rely on people. Gods don't bake our bread and gods don't go looking for survivors in the wreckage - people do. A lot of people with integrity exist. There are also a lot of bakers(people) with little or no integrity - there is a lot of grey area. But even a sociopathic baker understands it is not a god that prevents them from pooping in the dough, but their customers that would stay away and warn everyone if the baker did that. Even people who only pretend to have integrity still inevitably rely on unspoken social contracts based around it. Billions of people deny this to shut us up and say it is normal to give up integrity for short term gains or maintaining a relationship that would be painful to lose and they're demonstrably wrong and they'll ignore factual demonstrations and equate them to a difference of opinion or belief and they're wrong about that as well. So I would like to be one of the many encouragements in the path you chose to try and help outweigh the normalized discouragement that billions provide. Shoudln't be to hard. Their credibility is worth as much as their integrity and the same goes for me and my credibility and integrity and also for yours :D So you see, it's not strange at all that I like you; I value you a lot, for very good and demonstrable reasons - I would be a hypocrite if I didn't :D

[@Drakkoc]

It always annoys me when Christians say "God gave us free will so we could choose to love him." The choice is love a narcissistic abuser that promises to be nice to you forever or face eternal torture. Loved the end music, btw.

[@mistylover7398]

Wonder if any creator exists why be the Bible God? Isn't that God actually EVIL. Of any creator to be tricked into.

[@metademetra]

Even then "Free will to do X" is an oxymoron. If free will has any conditions or expectations, it's not free will

[@Soothsayer_13]

A couple of years ago, this would have seemed totally normal to me. I'm so glad I stopped the religion in my generation, and won't be passing it on to my children.

[@ProphetofZod]

Good for you! I'm glad you did too. It's a challenging step to take, but it's super important and ultimately rewarding.

[@roetchen]

that deserves a heartfelt like.

[@rickylamar8008]

Good for you!

[@ProphetofZod]

@Breen - Darragh Mahon Who said they won't even let their children know about religion? I'm not sure exactly what they meant. For my part, I have all kinds of conversations about religion with my kids, sharing my thoughts and encouraging careful consideration without automatically feeding them conclusions. I've told them I will love them and be equally proud of them whether they're Christian or atheist, and I will help them get to church or find religious materials if they ask of their own accord. However, I have "stopped religion" in that I don't specifically indoctrinate my kids into a specific path. I'm not sure what Soothsayer13 means about stopping religion, but you might learn more about it if you ask instead of assuming they mean not even letting their kids learn about it. Even if they stopped direct instruction, that's not the same as trying to push a specific perspective. It sounds a little like you're seeing an equivalency where there isn't one.

[@Soothsayer_13]

@@ProphetofZod My father is a SBC preacher. My children most definitely know about religion. My oldest was 5 when I left the church. Before that, the entire family always went to church together. It's a long complicated story. I've been through alot. Folks like you Zod have really helped me out. The road out of religion and into atheism was a hard road. I can protect my children from the worst parts of the religion.

[@stacie1595]

When I was a kid, I had friends who were really religious but my family were more "Christmas and Easter Christians." Sometimes I would go to church with a friend and whenever they started talking about God, I wanted so desperately to feel him, to be moved by him, to "have a relationship" with him but I never felt anything. I instead felt judged by the kids who believed and I felt general fakeness from everyone else. Church became a place I felt supremely uncomfortable in even at the young age of 6 or 7.

[@nickh944]

Same here, growing up I desperately wanted to feel something, anything, that would make me believe. We had to go almost every week too, but I always felt like I was pretending.

[@masterhypnos6783]

Likewise. As a kid, I wanted this despite finding more and more wrong with the religion on various levels. Eventually, I came to realize how toxic the christian environment can be historically and personally as well as the fact that christianity taught me the concept of hypocrisy long before I ever knew the word for it.

[@CZH3982]

Wow, interesting how many respond with, " same here"...'cause, Yup, me too. We had two trailers just off the property at the public school I attended and on Wednesdays, if a parent had 'pre-approved' we could leave class for an hour and attend either the Catholic trailer or the Protestant one. As an Anglican/Episcopal, I automatically went to the Protestant one and was met with really goofy cartoonist characters in Bible Stories, Noah's Ark type jabbering and odd hands holding prayer at the end. So, the next Wednesday I attended the 'Catholic' very familiar and UTTERLY boring and non-inspirational. It was the beginning of the beautiful end of this journey 40 plus years later! 😅

[@Boris99999]

The 4th video cracked me up: So in order to “build your relationship” with an invisible and intangible person that you’re not even sure is there - you need to pretend as if he exists until you manage to completely convince yourself he does! What a great way to describe religion in a nutshell! As they say “You fake it until you make it”. Only in this case “you pretend it exists until you completely believe it does”! This is nothing but self-deception…

[@jujuplayboy]

This is how AronRa lost his faith in Christianity, he was told to "keep telling it's Jesus until you believe it".

[@unkaumanguy1439]

This describes "faith", which you need to convince yourself that these ridiculous things are real.

[@vernonchitlen8958]

And you’re fine with believing the 6 principal elements of 98 naturally occurring elements spontaneously assembled themselves into DNA which has a thousand times the information storage density than the best computers that scientists are using to examine it with? Using millions less in energy? A gram of DNA can contain 215 million gigabytes of information. The strand in a mother’s fertilized egg, the size of this sentences period contains the instructions for the constructing and assembling in the order and sequence, the 200 different types of cells in the specific arrangements of the 37 trillion cells of an adult human. Through all phases and transitions, from conception to maturity. An approximately same size egg for the 100 quadrillion cells of an adult blue whale. Psalm 139:14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made, marvelous are Your works; that my soul knows very well. Matt 22:37-40 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” (37) Jesus said, You shall love The Lord you God with all your heart, soul and mind. (38) And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (40) ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANGS ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. Matt 24:4- Take heed no one deceives you. (5) For many will come in My Name, saying I am The Christ and will deceive many. (9) You will be hated by all nations for His Names sake. (11) many false prophets will ride up and deceive many. (12) And because lawlessness will increase the love of many will grow cold.(14) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Jesus will return before that proverbial peer reviewed publication demonstrating literally, unambiguously, unequivocally the chemical elements assembling themselves into a cell capable of evolving. 1 in 5, 68 million americans are infected by an STD. 26 million new infections per year with increasing virulency. Gonorrhea is nearly untreatable now. (CDC) Atheists have no answers for war or the one that leaves this world a nearly lifeless, smoldering cinder. And the morons messing around with gain of function research? Incredible, seeing which viruses that can be made to infect humans? Can’t wait until they make something like a new and improved, virulent hemorrhagic fever available. Technology is great, without moral and ethical principles? Not so much...

[@Boris99999]

@@vernonchitlen8958 Wow! That’s a lot of text there, buddy. Seems like I stroke a nerve, huh… Well I’ll respect your hard work and will actually respond to what you have written there! “And you’re fine with believing…” - You DO NOT KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE! Stop pretending you do! That’s the most dishonest thing you could do. “…the 6 principal elements of 98 naturally occurring elements spontaneously assembled themselves into DNA…” - seems like you are trying to describe abiogenesis but doing it poorly. No, it wasn’t DNA that first appeared in the process of abiogenesis but RNA. No the processes were not completely random unless you would call any chemical process occurring in the natural environment “random” - then, I guess, you could call our breathing a “random process” but then the word “random” will lose any meaning it had before and become completely useless… “DNA which has a thousand times the information storage density than the best computers that scientists are using to examine it with? Using millions less in energy? A gram of DNA can contain 215 million gigabytes of information. The strand in a mother’s fertilized egg, the size of this sentences period contains the instructions for the constructing and assembling in the order and sequence, the 200 different types of cells in the specific arrangements of the 37 trillion cells of an adult human. Through all phases and transitions, from conception to maturity. An approximately same size egg for the 100 quadrillion cells of an adult blue whale.” - that’s quite a statement! We’re you hoping for “wow-effect” there? Is this even relevant to the topic? 100 years ago humans were not able to fly in the sky, today they can - does that in any way prove or disprove birds being the product of natural processes? The same goes for DNA being the product of natural processes - wether we are able to pack as much information as dna has and how effective are our information storage devices is irrelevant to the questions of abiogenesis! “Psalm…” - quoting your preferred night time story collection will not help you unless you actually show that the information that is written there is in any way relevant to the current discussion. “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” - it has being preached for 2 millenniums already and it seems like there’s no end in the foreseeable future - if you’re trying to impress me, you are failing miserably right now… “Jesus will return before that proverbial peer reviewed publication demonstrating literally, unambiguously, unequivocally the chemical elements assembling themselves into a cell capable of evolving.” - he hasn’t come for 2 thousand years and I doubt he will do that ever. Again I’m not impressed… “1 in 5, 68 million americans are infected by an STD.” - that’s why teaching children things about contraception is very important and it doesn’t help that religious organizations are doing their best to oppose sex-education! “26 million new infections per year with increasing virulency.” - that’s what is expected from population growing bigger on the same territory. If you think there were no viral infections in ancient times - try actually studying history. There were lots of pandemics in the past and will be a lot in the future. This doesn’t mean the end is near. “Gonorrhea is nearly untreatable now.” - all the more reason to use contraception and to check regularly for STDs together with your partner. “Atheists have no answers for war or the one that leaves this world a nearly lifeless, smoldering cinder.” - writing that you mean “theists have answers to those problems”? If so then why have there been wars during the rise of religions? It seems like wars are inevitable in human societies no matter what religious affiliations they have so it’s not the problem for only atheists but rather for the whole humanity! “And the morons messing around with gain of function research? Incredible, seeing which viruses that can be made to infect humans? Can’t wait until they make something like a new and improved, virulent hemorrhagic fever available.” - that was always the case for humans! We strive for efficiency. That is not an issue of atheism as people do that no matter if they believe in god or not… “Technology is great, without moral and ethical principles? Not so much...” - that has nothing to do with either atheism or abiogenesis as none of those things deal with moral issues so I don’t even know what’s your point there!

[@vernonchitlen8958]

@@Boris99999 So a prebiotic soup or whatever has more creative power than scientists in sophisticated laboratories, even providing them with working models they can’t duplicate? Hilarious! The STD’s are a reflection of fornicating like bunnies. Same with abortion rates. Isn’t sex education a failure in respect to STD rates? Just like the war on drugs and poverty? Of course, to you a “fetus” isn’t human. What would have been aborted, you or a fetus?

[@agdhani]

My family was the 'go to church every week' plus Bible studies, church camps, etc. Once I went off to college, I found it impractical to attend every week...but didn't consider myself 'falling away' until I was home one summer and there was a big local to-do that amounted to shunning 2 local restaurant owners who were in a lesbian relationship. The hypocrisy I was hearing to what I was taught to 'believe' steadily eroded after that, but it was less an erosion of faith then it was a comfort with organized religion. More and more of that belief has fallen away over the years. I still consider myself 'Christian' and maintain a belief in some manner of higher power...it is based less on 'proof' I think then it is the vestiges of being unable to let go of that 'believe or go to hell' upbringing and the doubt and fear that instills. I can't argue for the proof of any God because I don't have proof. I've studied enough history and some of the info about theological translations to see no concrete proof of Biblical claims. I recognize the inherent contradictions in the Bible that will allow people to support any position on any topic they wish to have. In some ways I think I'm closer to atheism...but that childhood indoctrination fails to be shed...and I'm 56 years old and have been 'free' of attending church (outside of a random service here and there) for more than 30 years. This is the damage done to kids.

[@DefiantAngel87]

What was the damage? Church can be an enjoyable experience as well. Did you enjoy the camps,friends,etc as a kid.

[@andresvillarreal9271]

Let us have open conversations and discuss everything you want to bring to the table so that we can both reach the conclusion that I was right all along. Because, of course, I am a fabulous parent.

[@j.christie2594]

Sounds like my, My mother, who couldn't even pick one version of religion.

[@JacobP81]

EXACTLY!

[@Nocturnalux]

The detective analogy was one of the very worst I have encountered in apologetics. The criminal is trying not to get caught. God, however, is supposed to want to have a relationship with us. An apter analogy would be a homicide with no dead body, no evidence there is even a victim, and no witnesses. It’s not a matter of who committed the crime but of, was there a crime even committed to start with.

[@stylis666]

I declare god innocent of all accusations. Lucky god, or he'd be the perfect narcissist and that would be some really sad shit. Phew! He dodged a bullet there. "No, Neo, when you're ready, you won't have to." :p Wow! It's been a while since I've abused a quote like that XD I've steered away from it because conservative people are just so lousy with quotes and rarely, if ever get them right. But fuck that! I want my freedom back to be a silly twat :D I think abusing that quote there was a great joke! :D And it still kind of works. Neo doesn't exist outside of stories either. Even when I try to fuck it up I don't. Amazing. How do conservative people do that _all_ the fucking time? I can't even when I try XD Here's one of my favourites that people get wrong:" I'm surrounded with idiots!" You remember that scene? XD I love that quote! Because I _am_ a silly twat a lot of the time and _then_ it works. Yet, people often use it to say they are right and other people are wrong, just like Scar did, the fucking fascist XD Too fucking funny! Oh, I love irony! :D

[@rowanfrost7962]

Well, actually there is evidence, a piece of paper that says someone was murdered.

[@gregdietrich57]

Better yet, a book by some Ellery Queen person describing the murder

[@CakeTh3Jake]

Neither are evidence, they are claims

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

also, looking at the world to see how everything works is just the scientific process and a detective is a great analogy for that

[@Purpleturtlehurtler]

17:52 This was instilled in my family members from a young age and it's by far the most sinister part of organized religion. My dad and brother suffer from mental illness that makes them hear voices when they aren't on their medications. They are convinced the voices are god whilst in the throws of mania, and nobody can convince them otherwise until they are treated. I don't know if it would be any better if we never had Christianity to begin with, but it's made me particularly resentful of every denomination that preys upon vulnerable minds still being formed.

[@maninalift]

I really liked the way you distilled that point "not only to ask questions but actually explore a variety of answers" gets to what is missing from 99% of Christian "its OK to ask questions / doubt" contexts

[@ProphetofZod]

Thank you! That's something we need to call out. It's an empty promise that just makes kids feel tricked and betrayed, even if they didn't deep-down perceive the insincerity of it from the start.

[@shriggs55]

@@ProphetofZod I had profound disappointment when I was stuck in fundagelicalism-which was one of the main reasons for leaving it.Speaking of promises,none of them came to pass,they were empty promises.as you said.I'm just sad it took me so damn long.

[@stylis666]

@@shriggs55 _"I'm just sad it took me so damn long."_ Me too! But on the other hand. It takes time to process things and to figure out how certain you can be of the things you think are true. This doesn't just count for the religious ideas, but of the doubts and criticisms as well. I think it's good that it took you this long. Doesn't make it less sad, but it might make it easier to accept that it took you as long as it did. Hopefully that will help to not kick yourself in the head for taking as long as you did but to be proud of what you did and the ways you did it. It might just make the pain worht it.

[@shriggs55]

@@stylis666 Thanks for those wise and encouraging words.Take care of yourself Setekh.

[@Dustin_Bins]

Well put!

[@gatorboymike]

The way every single apologist out there repeats the same material is like if I were to say, "Hey guys, I just discovered something no one has ever known before. It turns out that if you run the ball into the end zone, you get six points! Holy shit!"

[@yanktheworld]

Having relationships with imaginary friends is something that kids tend to be good at. Rational people expect them to grow out of it after a time.

[@deneb3525]

I'm starting to wonder if Santa is a form of training wheels. Getting used to ascribing events to an individual that only exists in your head.

[@derreckwalls7508]

Kids are good at imagining friends that help them express themselves, but it is entirely foriegn to them to imagine a character defined by others in a way to which they cannot relate. The only way Christianity can make God relatable to kids is by indoctrination - by manipulating and coercing them into expressing themselves artificially to conform to the unrealistic expectations of a diety. If there were such a thing as sin or evil, that would be it. What could be worse than destroying a kid's enthusiasm for discovering themself?

[@mistylover7398]

IKR

[@cplus14]

If we suddenly lost all our scientific knowledge, and all our religious knowledge (including any written works, discussing either) world-wide, we would eventually rediscover how physics, chemistry, math, etc works, but we would NEVER rediscover the Greek pantheon, Buddhism, or Christianity.

[@pansepot1490]

We would invent some other religion.

[@cplus14]

@@pansepot1490 For sure. Making up intuitive explanations to patterns is what humans are built to do. Sometimes that gives us gravity, sometimes that gives us Gorgrag, He Who Poops Lightning.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

Absolutely 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@davidbudge8359]

Nice to see Christopher Hitchens has access to the Internet in the void ;)

[@cplus14]

@@davidbudge8359 Thank you! I knew I was paraphrasing someone, but it escaped me.

[@hamobu]

I am totally dating J. K. Rowling! She never met me, but I read her books and we are clearly connected and in a personal relationship.

[@thesuitablecommand]

"Keep asking questions" can just as easily become a route to closing off relationships. If a parent becomes the sort of nagging nuisance who just keeps challenging their child and doesn't let it drop, that doesn't do anyone any good. While I agree that it is good for parents and adults to talk about this sort of thing when it comes up, I don't think it should remain on the forefront of all conversation for very long. Address it, acknowledge it, and drop it.

[@EdwardHowton]

Of course, that's the goal. Isolate your cult's victims as much as possible so they have nowhere and no-one to turn to except you, so you can continue to exploit them in ever-increasing amounts until their timely or untimely deaths, which doesn't matter because hey, the _afterlife_ is what matters, but not as much as the cult leader's seventeenth private jet.

[@joshuaa7266]

I think the idea is to not put any beliefs above question, not to literally constantly ask questions

[@thesuitablecommand]

@@joshuaa7266 oh yeah in that case, its good advice lol

[@j.christie2594]

What if the Kid Nag's, about all the inconsistences, in the bileBull. And, relentlessly, questions due to the HUGE amount of KILLING and Glorification of it, in bileBull. SO, I got told NO Question is BAD, then I found out, a Lot of Questions are bad. Been beat up, tire's slashed and robbed for asking questions, by chriStains...Love of christ, I do without, for Infinity!

[@lightningfirst689]

I know I can't read minds, but... I'm having a real hard time believing anyone could honestly misunderstand the argument from divine hiddenness that badly.

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah, that feels not only like not trying, but trying not to try.

[@robertmiller9735]

Deliberate misunderstanding is what apologetics is about.

[@deneb3525]

@@robertmiller9735 Its putting enough steps in the circular logic that you don't realize your going in a circle. Part of why it took me 4 years to throw in the towel was because it took me that bloody long to painstakingly plot all the various "proofs" onto a giant chart and realize there was no begining, it all just continuouly looped back in on itself.

[@reclusiveblueberry8207]

I'm one of the 'lucky?' ones that never were indoctrinated into any religion. We were given access to religious text and had open discussions about it (mother was religious). But both of my parents considered it very important that we're going to make up our mind and 'choose' our beliefs once were old enough to propey comprehend the context. As a result, I find myself struggling to understand the desire to believe in a god or supernatural. I still rememythe first time I was confronted with a fundamentalistic Christian. (We have a lot of 'passive Christians' they go to church on like Easter etc and otherwise neither defend the faith nor proclaim it nor practice it (in a way visible to me)). It was a true shock... I never new I was that incapable of understanding another person, it was like we weren't even the same species (to my young mind back then). (I'm not trying to degrade believers, but I've taken the stance that most, if not all, active religious are harmful, both to the mind and the world. It erodes critical thinking and motivates truly horrific mind sets towards infidels. (An active religion has to spread -> indoctrination required -> have to break down rational thought to allow for belief (obviously from the perspective that those religions are not 'true')) I just get sad when I encounter them by now.

[@bigwendigo2253]

I get sad about it too. It’s wild how malleable, and at the same time stubborn, the human brain is.

[@lnpipeline3306]

I was 30 years old before I learned there were grown-ass adults on this planet that ACTUALLY believe there was a world-wide flood in 2500 BC, and KNEW the story of Noah’s Ark was real. That was quite a shock. I know how you feel. I’m not sure how those people can function in society.

[@davidoverholt4775]

The "wish list of evidence" (11:17) analogy actually could work really well as a response for why its hard to answer the apologist question of "What would convince you?" We can't simply come up with a list of types of evidence that would convince us, but rather must work with what is there.

[@dougkoonce5139]

I grew up in a home where my father was an apologetics fanatic. It was just a few days ago that I finally realized that he was just trying to convince himself. Apologetics would never convince anyone in a vacuum, they only confirm a presupposed bias. I'm 48 btw

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah, they're specifically targeted in a way that appeals to existing believer and relies on premises only an existing believer would accept.

[@shriggs55]

@@ProphetofZod Yeah,you're right.I soaked myself in Christian apologetics for about 30 years of my life.In the end,they all talk the same jive.Man,all those years wasted.

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

@@shriggs55 At least you got out, which sadly most apologist probably won't be able to do. I wouldn't outright say the time you spent in apologetics was wasted because you could possibly convince others why it's wrong.

[@rainbowkrampus]

That's a powerful realization. Not trying to be snarky at all. There are a lot of hang ups we have which prevent us from seeing other people's motivations in a clear light, especially when those other people are our parents.

[@jenna2431]

Apologetics is only ever for Christians. It never speaks to people who have no --gullibility-- er, victimization of this cult.

[@LPNurja]

I don't understand how anyone could think that knowing god exists would take away our free will to love him? Like. I know my cat exists. That is *why* I love him. Sure, I love cats in general, the concept of cats, but this specific cat? I only love because it exists and I know about its existence. Apologetics are just nonsense. Random feelgood words.

[@jonathandent3445]

You made an excellent point I haven't heard before `' If god made the universe and everything in it then why did he have to fine tune it " when he could have made it perfect to begin with.

[@necko2529]

And it goes far beyond that... A fined tuned universe, created for us, God's favorite creation, wouldn't be so deadly to us. Think about all the places that we can't exist in, just here on the earth let alone the universe at large.

[@LadyOfTheEdits]

True hey. Oh and why make life complex? A god could easily make humans simple and have the same functions etc

[@MrCanis4]

And why did he create people he wasn't happy with and then drown them all.

[@LadyOfTheEdits]

@@MrCanis4 exactly lol

[@darrennew8211]

That's because the "fine tuning" argument isn't as presented. There's said to be a tiny range of values which would make the universe even last for more than a few minutes, with things like atoms and molecules in it. You have to tune things like the fine structure constant and the speed of light. It's not about whether humans can breathe, but whether there would be anything in the universe to make humans out of. (I'm an atheist, but at least don't straw-man the religious arguments for which the only scientific answer is "we don't know yet." )

[@ashlazdanovich8396]

As someone who was raised in the church and is now questioning/deconstructing everything I’ve been brought up in, this hit hard. I now understand one of the major reason why I had intense anxiety growing up. I practically lived in fear due to this. Especially since I NEVER got an answer from God unless it was in a dream-which I now know that is not necessarily reliable. So I really related to when you talked about the kid being shamed whenever they don’t experience a relationship with god the same way everyone else does. I have felt like I’ve been shamed by the church throughout my whole life since I was 6 years old, for this reason among many other reasons. It wasn’t fun and I’m glad I’m now seeing through all this crap. If I have kids, I know I will NOT force this stuff onto them. Because it’s not right. Anyway, thanks for the great video!

[@deneb3525]

yea, its rough, I've been deconstructing for 6 or so months now, and I am continualy being amazed at all the different pieces of social coercion that was used. Often unwittingly/unknowingly, and often just blatenly aproved of because it was being done for God / to save your soul.

[@ashlazdanovich8396]

@@deneb3525 yeah. I find that just completely messed up. I’ll probably end up leaving the church soon with all I’m seeing through my deconstruction.

[@PokemonRules333]

@@deneb3525 yep the savior complex apparently it is completely justified to try to shove your religion down people’s throat if you are “saving” them even if people never wanted it and never asked for it making you come out as rude and annoying

[@ashlazdanovich8396]

@@PokemonRules333 very true. I remember in grade school I was encouraged to basically do just that with my classmates. I ended up doing it with a kid and regretted every moment of it. Since then, I personally never tried to force the religion down other’s throats like that, despite what the church wanted me to do.

[@justinhart2831]

Does everybody *have* to call it "deconstruction?" I feel like that's jumping out of the fundamentalist frying pan into the postmodern fire.

[@gaelyr8322]

It’s funny that this woman imagines we’d laugh at a detective that’d say « I wish the evidence were better » because that’s actually exactly what they do and they do so because they know that without good enough evidence they won’t be able to convict anyone (in this case « prove the existence of god »). So it’s actually not only much a bad analogy but also a really misunderstood one by its own author ^^

[@davidweisberger3915]

Lovely how the last piece of advice bridges the gap from being unhealthy for children to being unhealthy for parents.

[@franklinbarrett4630]

This video brought back memories I hadn’t recalled since about sixty-four years ago. I tried to imagine god speaking to me and I always drew a blank. This led me to deism and that gradually faded away to atheism in my later life.

[@sedonarose7563]

Oh this brings back so many memories of my youth and young adult years when I had those sleepless and restless nights as I struggled to “hear” gawd. Sheesh! So much wasted anxiety trying to have a relationship with this invisible friend. So grateful I don’t have that now.

[@melindad180]

Our children's minds need to be nurtured, not tortured. What you said here needs to be broadcast. This was exceptionally good, Prophet of Zod!

[@stylis666]

Exactly! Timmy! Leave your father's car keys alone or Santa will give you coal! And stop playing with your pee pee. God will not let you into heaven with mommy if you're being gay all the time. There are so many ways to torture children and adults alike. And it's quite simple not to. Instead of helping to normalize empty assertions and thinking errors and fallacies as excuses, even by just letting them slide because we fear losing a close relationship, we could just stop accepting them and speak out against it. I'm not saying it's easy to do or that this won't go without sacrifice, but if we know this and we love our children, I think it's our responsibility. After all, knowledge is what gives us freedom. To not act on our knowledge would be irresponsible and diminish not only our own freedom but of those we love as well and I think we all deserve better. At the very least, I think it's a safe bet to say that everyone of us knows someone we think deserves better.

[@mistylover7398]

Wonder if your actually right. 🤔 isn't Bible God actually EVIL? Why does he get to be the only impossible nothing that created everything?

[@cv8683]

My uncles adamant assertion that the sun is not a star and if science claims it is science is wrong was what started me questioning the dogma.

[@shadowpuppet8192]

I remember when my mom and her best friend were both pretty deep into the Focus on the Family stuff. But I was a teenager at the time, so I got lucky.

[@thetalkingbear]

I've never experienced anything paranormal when I used to go to church. Nothing but feelings, that only came about after being manipulated by clever words meant to stir up emotions.

[@adamnascent7231]

This is one of the best videos yet. You absolutely nail the kind of mental agony I went through as a child.

[@justaguy6100]

The terms are Deus Otiosis and Deus Absconditus, the "idle" and the "hidden" god. I love the little footnotes VERY much! BTW as to those actions in the distant past, those are the stuff of fables, something you've pointed out multiple times as well. "Because the bible told me so" is the primary dodge of theists I encounter, so it becomes a discussion of textual criticism. AND you hit on the primary issue this type of indoctrination quite eloquently, so I believe it deserves front line repetition: insisting on this type of indoctrination as an example to young kids as "rational thinking" is why we don't have enough people capable of rationality today, in ANY area of discernment, including of course political discourse.

[@Beegee1952]

She talks about prayer which is the main thing that initialed my deconversion. Never has one answered in 60 years.

[@romnarz344]

You were not praying in the right way or for the right things. God knows what is good for you so your prayers are not necessarily answered in the way you expect.

[@Nesendrea]

I almost feel like the “detective” analogy deserved more time to cover how absurd it really is. That was one of the weakest “apologetics” arguments I have ever heard, such that it embarrasses at least somewhat challenging peers like the watchmaker. It’s a perfect example of the kind of empty drivel that no serious apologist would dare to offer in a real debate, when they didn’t already know they were preaching to a choir of believers who just wanted to hear comforting words they wouldn’t question so they could feel better.

[@ProphetofZod]

Yeah, I think that might have been one of the most straightforwardly self-defeating analogies I've ever seen.

[@jenniferhunter4074]

There's more to that. In the analogy, God is supposed to be the murderer? The criminal? I mean, I'm an atheist. I'd say that murderer or criminal is too light a description of what that malevolent character is. That's like saying a chopped neck is the equivalent of a paper cut. I am glad the woman subconsciously associated her god with a criminal. I wonder what she'd think up to explain her choice of example.

[@david2869]

@@jenniferhunter4074 Not to mention that God, according to the bible, actually is a murderer. Just read about Onan and what happened there to see God's murder of Onan and why.

[@jenniferhunter4074]

@@david2869 Onan is just one of them. What about the guy who tried to save the Ark of the Covenant from falling to the ground.. and dying as a result of touching that box? No wonder that christians are so violent. They model themselves after their Voldemort character and then, they wonder why nobody wants to play with them.

[@willjapheth23789]

@@david2869 the best explicit God murder is the dude who picked up sticks on the sabbath, where he explicitly told everyone to stone him.

[@atticusrex2691]

Praying for guidance seems an awful lot like, figuring out what you think you should do based on your own biases

[@melindad180]

...in a meditative way. 😉

[@bretthansen3739]

Great video! I had so many thoughts listening to this. Focus in the Family has come so far since the 80s. I'm pretty sure the answer back then would have been "These questions are defiant, you don't hit them enough". You mention children having trouble seeing the complex relationship with a human in their prayers (and imagination), but if the parents have been following FotF's advice all along, you don't have that problem. The kid won't be looking for a relationship with a loving being who cares about them and listens to them, they'll be looking for a parental figure. I had a very easy time feeling that I had a relationship with God, he was way nicer than my parents.

[@Phourc]

*_"he kid won't be looking for a relationship with a loving being who cares about them and listens to them, they'll be looking for a parental figure."_* ... Fuck that hurts to read. I absolutely believe it, though.

[@bretthansen3739]

@@Phourc I really hate Focus on the Family. My mom was a mean person from a mean family, I see why she was drawn to this. My dad was usually quiet and sweet, always willing to help. I know that he studied these guides and probably had to work at being as bad a parent as he was. I don't talk to either of them anymore, but I miss him.

[@vinx.9099]

here's something I also notice: many christians conflate why you started questioning with the reaso n you don't believe. I for instance started questioning because of a primary school teacher that often told bible stories which I found annoying and both due to exposior and because I'm a spiteful bardard I started questioning those stories. I realised the bible and evolution where in conflict (at least the plain text reading of a kids bible read by a 9 year old autist) and I had seen plain evidence of evolution so the bible was false. of course nowadays my understanding of christianity and reality is a lot deeper and my lack of belief is build on the null hypothesis due to no meaningful evidence for christianity. but if a christian reads this they would generally say I'm an atheist because I didn't like a teacher, not understanding that was merely the catalyst.

[@jahcode6132]

Same. It seeing friends of mine hurt by Christian’s and also sitting down to seriously consider why I would really want to believe that people deserved hell for believing in the wrong thing that got me started and then it was evidence based research that got me to let go of belief altogether.

[@trybunt]

Yes, I distinctly remember that crucial piece of evidence given in Darwins "on the origin of species" to show that life diversified via evolution- "how else could species develop?" And the evidence for the Germ theory of Disease- "were else does disease come from?". And we all remember Einstein giving that final piece of evidence to support his theory of special relativity- "how else would time work?" Who needs good reasons to believe stuff, when you could just teach your kids "how else is everything here, silly? It must be God!" Ground breaking stuff!

[@pollypockets508]

Excellent point that we aren't compelled to love every human that we know to exist. I love that!

[@lyqueruss2715]

Oddly enough, this came up when I was looking up for how to help teach my child about God, Prayer and all that stuff that's important. Mostly because *MY* parents kinda sorta did what Natasha and Focus on the Family are teaching in the video you've covered, and it left me with my own doubts and it took forever for me to come back to Christianity and I'd rather NOT teach them the way that FotF and them are teaching it. But I think, also oddly but on a good note, it's helped me open my mind to better ways to answer the questions they'll come to me with, so I don't push them away and cause issues in their mind like my parents did. It will be a difficult road yes, but I think this video has been better for me as a parent to open my eyes to better teach my child about what I believe rather than failing them in more ways than just faith. So thank you for it.

[@busylivingnotdying]

I think the most frightening thing about Natasha's thinking was the "how you think about this will have eternal consequences" (quoted from memory). I don't think we can raise kids with safe attachment in life if we teach them that what they think about what they cannot know, will determine where they spend eternity. Note: The problem is not that someone believe in some comfort "beyond our understanding" in the face of the "unknowable" (or at least hope for it), but that a threat is attached to it: - you must know what you don't know! (or perhaps): - if you can't you must OBEY those that (claim) they do! (not much better!) ..

[@robertshipman2340]

POZ you just spoke to me. When I was at a low point I spoke with my mom about feeling like my relationships were strained and weak. She told me I should read the Bible. (She does not know that I deconstructed, so it’s not completely tone deaf). But I couldn’t help but think that words in a book, even if inspired, could be the thing to help me with relationships with, you know, actual people. I’m sure she meant well, but it would have gone a lot farther for her to say, “you’re my son and I love you, even if I don’t know how I can help you, but I will always be here to listen” I just felt like she was passing the buck, and giving advice she had gotten from church, without actual consideration for the situation.

[@allenhonaker4107]

Promoting STEM subjects at all levels will continue to counter religious brain washing. Promoting logic and reason at all levels is imperative.

[@davidwatches]

PoZ: "In other words, please don't leave and make the algorithm punish me." Me who realized I missed the first video and went back to watch it right before getting to this line in the video: "Oopsie."

[@ProphetofZod]

Hahahaha! It probably doesn't matter that much. If it comes to it, I'd rather people have the experience of watching in order. I wanted to say something that might mitigate a mass exodus that would sent the wrong signal to KZbin, but even then I was mostly joking.

[@davidwatches]

@@ProphetofZod Most scholars agree that there is no verifiable evidence of any mass exodus from Prophet of Zod's channel as recorded in the comments section, despite biblical apologists' claims to the contrary.

[@donaldnumbskull9745]

If I were doing jury duty, and the prosecution provided overwhelming evidence of the defendant's guilt, that would not take away my free will. (I might have taken a bribe to vote innocent, being an atheist with no morals.) So god showing up to say 'Hi' wouldn't stop me from telling him to bugger off. I'm not saying that I would, but if he caught me in a bad mood, I'd still have the option.

[@galloe8933]

Wow, without trying to add jokes that some may or may not understand, depending on age, and location, PoZ made it real, no tiptoeing over eggshells, but laying it all out in a way that a whiling parent can comprehend. I don’t even know if I said any of that right, but this video was/is amazing.

[@pmtoner9852]

I hope Christians seeking answers find this video. Great work

[@jonm3427]

The major issue with what she's telling parents is that it results in situations where beatings continue until morale improves. Teaching kids religion is the parental equivalent of "stop hitting yourself".

[@MathIguess]

These videos are very entertaining to me. I like the way you pick the arguments apart and encourage critical thought

[@unkaumanguy1439]

The only proper and fair thing to do is teach your children about religion, all religions and let them make their own decisions. I was brought up ignorant, not knowing that the religion I was indoctrinated into wasn't the only one. When I did finally discover this, I could not understand how this could be possible and which one was true. "They cannot all be true, but they can all be false." - M. Dillahunty

[@tbastdgagitw]

Your best video yet. Her ideas were so muddied and yours were clear and true. Christians could learn from this how to have more sincere conversations with their children.

[@brendantuthill6491]

When I first encountered this channel, I expected some meta-level memery about proselytizing the word of Zod, the Superman villain. I still enjoy the channel, even if I'm a tad disappointed

[@ElroyMF1]

I love the way you say "the world" with the audible quotation marks.

[@SawtoothWaves]

(sees POZ) my brain: person of zolor

[@cerberaodollam]

Lol 🤣🤣

[@toolinaround-est2024]

ACAB: assigned Cop at birth

[@SawtoothWaves]

@@toolinaround-est2024 assigned cop as bastard

[@EtamirTheDemiDeer]

Prophet of cod

[@hisxmark]

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." -- Hebrews 11:1 NIV So, according to the infallible word of God (c)(TM)(Pat.Pend.) faith is not blind, but wishful thinking and seeing what isn't actually seen. That makes perfect sense.

[@steveferguson698]

Ya..I never got that either

[@susansteinkraus2821]

Congrats, Zod! Another well thought out and articulated response to Focus on the Family nonsense. These are your best videos ever!

[@russellcrick3873]

I had a patient that was tight this kind of thinking and god spoke directly to her. He told her her fingers were sinful because she pleasured herself with them so she should put them into a running lawn mower. Cost her eight fingers. Obviously this is an extreme example but it happens

[@Marniwheeler]

Entertaining, easy to understand, and thought provoking. Thank you.

[@Redacted937]

Idk how the indoctrination I was subjected to didn’t work. But I’m so glad it didn’t. Sometimes I think realizing I was gay was the catalyst to getting me out. Although I never believed truly.

[@cerberaodollam]

Pretty much the same. It never really made sense but coming out made me go "fuck this, and fuck you" for the first time.

[@urielpolak9949]

Preparing oneself for their kids thisway says so much about their relationships with their offspring.pre emptive striking. I have NEVER prepared any talk with my kids. I am comfortable with the direct actuality

[@pavld335]

"The hiddenness of god" might point to the fact that there is no god. But, that's just me.

[@ProphetofZod]

That's how we respond to the permanent hiddenness of most things. :D

[@missk1697]

Or, that he simply doesn't care, just like you don't care about an anthill in the forest nearby :p

[@anat.heistart]

I always forget how much I enjoy your closing of videos. So much nostalgia

[@paulthepotato9311]

Spirit, prayer, snd my Aphantasia were things that eventually inspired my coming out if Catholic indoctrination

[@paulthepotato9311]

I thought a long time maybe I somehow was missing my soul before learning of Aphantasia and atheism...

[@cerberaodollam]

What the heck is aphantasia?

[@paulthepotato9311]

@@cerberaodollam lack of “mind’s eye” senses to varying degrees..for me i have no senses inward but when dreaming i do see and hear

[@REDREDKRUVY4814]

One of my new favorite KZbin channels.👍🏻

[@DexterDexter123]

This is one of the best videos I’ve ever seen in this subject.

[@gregcampwriter]

Given all that my parents put me through in their fundamentalist cult, I am pleased to say that I caused them a great deal of pain, anxiety, and rage over rejecting their nonsense. I'd like to think that my father lay dying in guilt and regret, but really, he was too much of a monster to feel those emotions.

[@darwinskeeper421]

15:18 When watching the Ants Canada youtube channel, I have often found myself thinking of how much ant keepers are like gods as they look after their ant colonies. The main difference is that the ant keeper in question actually cares about the colonies he looks after and would never commit the atrocities that Yahweh does in the Old Testament.

[@metademetra]

This comment is extra ironic because very often the relationship with people and God is compared to the relationship with ants and people. AntsCanada legit tries to recreate rain season conditions so his ants will try to do mating flights. God meanwhile makes people that feel like the wrong gender, unable to pick up social cues as a social animal, and creates a world that has a limited number of resources while simultaneously letting the human population spiral out of control because...because.

[@wax99]

How to have a relationship with god, someone who they can't see or feel or interact with, is literally the same as trying to have a relationship with your deceased great grandparent whom you've never met but insisting everyone knows, feels and talks back.

[@chewxieyang4677]

Or that all too common 'Girlfriend from Canada' excuse people say to bypass they fact that they are single, back in highschool

[@drzaius844]

Growing doubt didn’t have anything to do with anything someone said to me. It had to do with the j overwhelming silence coming from the god I was told existed, and not sharing any of the “filled with the spirit” kind of experience that many around me claimed to be having. And the dread associated with not connecting with this god, and fearing damnation, and hating the trauma. It’s disgusting, when I think about it, that this traumatic bullshit is hurled at children. You explained it perfectly, POZ, bravo!

[@ima6pack]

I wish videos like this were more easily accessible when I was growing up. To list the ways that indoctrination ruined my upbringing would take far too long for one KZbin comment. I just hope more parents learn how damaging the faulty arguments for "god" are to a child so that future generations don't have to suffer them as we have

[@JediKalElStarkiller]

I found your response against the fine tuning argument as very unique, thoughtful, and well articulated. I feel a lot of times that responding with the science against this argument is counter productive. Christians often respond with a response similar to Turak's "atheists made up the multi-universe to get around the argument." Appealing to just logic I think is better than trying to hit them with more advanced science than a lot of them currently have. This might make more them open to hearing about the science. I know this is similar to the puddle analogy. I just think leading with a simple logical approach and them using the puddle analogy and the science. Good on ya mate.

[@sbushido5547]

That whole thing about having to imagine a relationship with someone I couldn't even hear (much less see) was probably the biggest part of why I stopped believing. I just couldn't force myself to keep pretending that closing my eyes and talking to myself was satisfying...

[@qwertydog9795]

as someone from a Focus on the Family household, this entire video is just...oof. my mom probably watched something similar when she was trying to Jesus-ify me. as we can all see, it did not work and I AM SO GLAD.

[@JacobP81]

23:52 What he just said really boils my blood!

[@Lonesurvivor256]

Zod does it again. Like a lot of others have said, I’m in my early thirties and I’m still trying to overcome these apologetics. Put simply, it’s child abuse.

[@genXstream]

Boy this relationship with an all powerful, unconditionally loving god sure seems like a lot of work.

[@brialdridge]

POZ you are one of my favorite KZbin channels. Having left my own evangelistic belief system and having it be so painful, you really explain my experience. Keep up the good work.

[@kristofftaylovoski60]

"oh crap I picked the wrong one"..... I chose "Their Satanic Majesties Request" over "Sticky Fingers".... Damn

[@JM-ot8ux]

Ah, I love listening to you. I do housework to it.

[@coolwoman698]

So relevant to today, I had someone ask me similar questions. Wouldn't leave me alone till I said I didn't believe or concern with thier religion. Keep up the good videos 👍

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Excellent responses POZ - I just hope that some of your words reach the right ears.

[@sobertillnoon]

Wait. So, are all gods are in hiding to avoid the consequences of their crimes? Or are they in witness protection? Either way, I like it. It just makes sense.

[@10Tabris01]

Well, good old Bastet is doing fine, considering she got the largest temple in human history when they opened the internet for the public

[@JacobP81]

25:11 Thank you for saying that Prophet of Zod, people need to wake up to the truth and realize this.

[@shriggs55]

Another great one! Something that really needed to be said,but not disgust very often.

[@jacketrussell]

*Discussed. 😉

[@ericslingerland5472]

In all of apologetics, its the parenting guides that upset me the most.

[@j.christie2594]

Not the only One. There are, Million's maybe!

[@nelsontorres6855]

Holy shit I think that was the best rebuttal of the fine tuning argument I've ever heard! Like if god does exist he really did have to design us to die without an atmosphere or without food. I've never thought of this I guess cuz it's just how we are but a god would have done that on purpose which makes no sense.

[@darrennew8211]

He's rebutting a straw-man version of fine tuning argument. The actual argument is "if matter wouldn't exist if the plank length was 2% different, why is it the value it is?" Which is not to say the answer is "God", but he's arguing against a completely different argument than the fine tuning argument, whose correct answer is "we don't know yet."

[@nelsontorres6855]

@@darrennew8211 this is a great example of Poe's law. I have no idea if u are serious or making a joke.

[@dyslexictroll8708]

It was just my imagination ... runnin' away with me. Great song.

[@QuinnPrice]

I finally figured out apologetics on my way out of Mormonism. Any lie is fair game IF it keeps believers from scrutinizing the actual evidence.

[@thetalkingbear]

I've prayed and meditated and I never really felt I heard God. It was kind of frustrating. I was told he speaks in a "still small voice." I felt like he might of spoke to me then I realize 99.9% chance it was just my stream of consciousness like you've said.

[@Ernoskij]

HAHA, I'm so used to that FBI warning appearing on Viced Rhino's videos, that for a moment I thought it was one of his videos I had started, and was confused when the Prophet of Zod theme started playing XD

[@lornedeason6467]

Very well done- especially liked the takedown of the silly detective analogy.

[@JacobP81]

23:05 I think that whole mental exercise of trying to talk with God and if God was just part of my mind is what led me to become a pantheist.

[@laurajarrell6187]

What is truly horrific, is that there are parents out there that become so afraid for their small children, they often abuse them, (even more than threatening them with hell!) and a few even kill them!👍💙💝🥰✌

[@mistylover7398]

Wondering if this loving creator that we're told to be a creation of. Of any creator to begin is evil?

[@hamobu]

Yours is the best atheist channel. I am surprised you are not way more popular.

[@pensivepenguin4610]

This allowed me to think through my childhood in a new way. Great points!

[@ellamayo9045]

I feel like our modern conceptualization of prayer is such bs, and I honestly can’t stand how familiar it is to our society! People act like it’s just any other simple, religious task. It would be one thing if I could close my eyes and do some magical hand gesture while chanting some divine language, and I could feel a clear, undeniable connection with god. Not only are answers to prayer undetectable by anyone outside the person who contacted him, but the of the message isn’t even clear to the recipient most of the time! The mental gymnastics that must be preformed to think of this as any form of intelligent communication is pretty self evident once you really think about it.

[@jdsartre9520]

Parent: God is different, it's not like your friends at school you can see Child: So god's like santa clause and the easter bunny and tooth fairy? Parent: Exactly! ...er, wait Child: or like my imaginary invisible friend! Mom, I totally get it, I don't know why you thought I couldn't grasp this

[@urielpolak9949]

Spirituality of all ages do agree on points

[@derreckwalls7508]

You are SO right! Oh, wait. Maybe I should wait for the video to start before I confirm my bias.

[@ProphetofZod]

That's fair. :)

[@nicholassmile5800]

Thanks, Zod