Protein, IGF-1 and Health Q&A - with Valter Longo, PhD | The Proof Podcast EP 238

In Episode 238, Dr Valter Longo returns to clarify some specific questions that arose from last week’s episode on protein.
👇 Visit The Proof website for supporting studies and the full show notes 👇
theproof.com/podcast/
Last week’s conversation, Episode 237, was a deep dive of protein, longevity, and cancer with Valter Longo, PhD, as part of The Proof’s extended exploration of protein. We examined IGF-1 and mTOR, looking towards the impact of protein consumption on our long-term health. Today, Dr Longo ties off some loose ends on this nuanced conversation, clarifying his stance and providing guidance.
Dr Valter Longo is the Edna M. Jones Professor of Gerontology and Biological Sciences and Director of the Longevity Institute at the USC Leonard David School of Gerontology, one of the leading centres for research on aging and age-related disease. Dr Longo is also the Director of the Longevity and Cancer Program at the IFOM Institute of Molecular Oncology in Milan, Italy. His studies focus on the fundamental mechanisms of aging in simple organisms and mice, and on how these mechanisms can be translated to humans.
In this episode, I ask Dr Longo clear questions extending on last week’s episode. We discuss biological age testing, amino acid deficiency, and how to measure cancer risk. We also cover the consequences of high IGF-1, Laron syndrome, and longevity, and whether exercising neutralises the risk of protein consumption.
Specifically, we discuss:
0:00 Intro
1:47 Reduce Cancer Risk with IGF1
4:11 Biological Age Test
6:24 Laron Syndrome & Longevity
13:06 Does Everyone with High IGF1 get cancer?
20:30 Pressure for Longevity
22:15 Does Exercise Reduce Risk?
26:19 Average IGF1
31:03 Conclusion
It was great to have Valter Longo, PhD back on the show to clarify some questions that remained after last week’s episode. Stay tuned for an upcoming episode summarising and evaluating The Proof’s recent dialogue on protein.
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Make sure to listen to the last episode of The Proof: theproof.com/protein-fasting-... where Dr Valter Longo and I examine protein consumption in detail.
Connect with Dr Valter Longo:
• Instagram: / prof_valterlongo
• Facebook: / profvalterlongo
• Website: www.valterlongo.com/
• His Book, The Longevity Diet: www.valterlongo.com/the-longe...
• Dr Longo first appeared on The Proof in Episode 106, which you can listen to here: theproof.com/slow-ageing-figh...
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Enjoy, friends.
Simon
Supporting studies
• Exercise, Dietary Protein, and Combined Effect on IGF-1 • [PMID: 33564731] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33564731
• IGF-I deficiency, longevity and cancer protection of patients with Laron syndrome • [PMID: 28528685] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28528...
====
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[@heidizee5144]

Simon, the highlight of this interview for me was seeing your question at 20:30 lead to a smile and a laugh from Dr. Longo! Great job engaging him and bringing humor to a serious topic. Loved this!!

[@raym8158]

Another great episode! Very interesting, thanks!!!

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

Excellent, thank you, Simon & Dr Longo

[@SpindlyScoudrel]

This is difficult - what Valter is saying makes sense (if cancer is out-of-control growth then limiting igf-1 may reduce its prevalence) but everyone else is saying increase protein! One of your previous guests on protein was very dismissive of Valter's work in fact!

[@tatywork9126]

observing the same. it looks like there is more to just IGF-1, its more complicated than that.

[@jaghad]

Yes! And, if you want to know the real reason why people get cancer and what we havr to do to handle cancer go listen to professor Thomas Seyfried. Valter Longo always talks about his mice studies. Humans are not mice.

[@nhukcire]

I have noticed this dichotomy for a while now and Dr. Longo said something here that confirms my intuition that, like almost everything, it is about balance. He said something to the effect that you need to eat as little protein as possible to maintain the muscle mass that you need. I think the effects of sarcopenia are more apparent and so most health experts focus on it and don't worry about too much protein. There are a lot of issues and health problems that are clearly related to a loss of muscle mass, but accelerated aging or increased risk of cancer are not so easily pinned on high IGF1 because there are so many other factors involved.

[@Amshatelia88]

I believe that particular guest had also worked closely with the food industry, which I think merits consideration.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

It also has to do with age. In previous interview with Dr Longo, he explains under 65/over 65 difference in risk factors. So, myself at 67, will have different needs and risks than the 40 year old. And, the 80 year old, perhaps even more so.

[@kst157]

Very clear and hugely informative - a big thank you Valter - and (as always) a first class interview Simon - appreciated x 2. 👍

[@willow05]

Ohhh yes that was very helpful and answered a few grey area questions for me! Clarifying the bit about protein intake vs amino acid (leucine/methionine )… thank you!

[@drembrey5811]

Thanks, so much - these were exactly my questions - I'm totally plant based, and a competitive athlete and I have only just adjusted my protein intake upwards - so I was reluctant to adjust back down as I was having good results with a slightly higher protein intake ( 0.7 g/lb). I'll definitely plan on getting my IgF-1 levels checked soon.

[@Amshatelia88]

I love the conversation on stacking risk factors!

[@jimpatek6244]

Loved that Dr Longo came across as a human with a sense of humility and humor. I may have to modify my skepticism and give him more slack. What I heard was go for your chosen level of protein and then test for IGF. Remembering that one person can maintain or grow muscle mass at one concentration and someone else another.

[@thecanceranswers]

As a medical oncologist and whole food plant based provider I switched over my diet years ago die to educating myself on nutrition science. I also work out regularly. I rarely see people delve into the cancer aspects of whole proteins vs amino acid profiles. Dr Longo touched in it briefly. I think you shoudl have Dr Oliver Maddox of Faeth therapeutics as a guest discussing some of his work in amino acid profiles and cancer. This may be too narrow of a topic though for your audience but I think its important for people to balance the pro growth protein and how different amino acid profiles affect muscle growth, longevity and cancer as there is a balance for each that many do not understand in any dietary pattern.

[@OctavianTelea]

Great interesting videos. Congrats!

[@littlevoice_11]

I'd love to see a video on how you implement what you've learnt since running your podcasts. The lessons you will bring with you to 2023 and beyond. For example what are your meal timings, snacks etc. What do you eat and drink a day and what are your daily habits?

[@olenalvovska1159]

Love your work Simon! Also just bought your new fermented book, all the recipes look delicious!

[@olenalvovska1159]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill will do!

[@fmfm9846]

Dear Simon, bravissimo! Wonderful interview with such clearly stated information, thank you so much! PS I'm always surprised that people just say "protein" without the animal or plant based caveat beforehand. Huge huge difference!

[@alblee]

Interesting take on the IGF-1 narrative. Greetings from Manila, Might!

[@sbtrochon1]

Great show Simon

[@michaeliveson2935]

Another great episode. Was wondering if you had any info/ideas on IGF-1 and growth through puberty for vegans. Was listening to Huberman with Dr Gillett and with 2 vegan kids would be interested in making sure they meet their growth potential without inviting other risks.

[@alane3983]

The IGF-I/protein connection to cancer is very interesting. And it has been a bit confusing for me to be following this because Dr. Colin Campbell indicated in his studies that high animal protein was a risk factor, but the same level of protein from plants wasn’t. This conversation gave some potential clarity on that issue in that plants have typically a lower leucine and methionine content which Valter says is related to the IGF-I production. Presumably, if you supplemented those amino acids even on a plant-based diet you could raise your IGF-I and elevate your risk for cancer. Not great news to be sure.

[@kat7114]

Exceptional episode!! Love listening to Dr Longo and have really enjoyed doing the pro-lon fast mimicking diet. I searched for info regarding bio-age testing with Create Cures Foundation, but was unable to find it. Any assistance would be much appreciated!

[@pattycarlin1745]

Same; any additional info would be greatly appreciated!

[@Marc_de_Car]

Thanks !

[@peterz53]

On the aging test, I think Dr. Longo is referring to Levine's Phenoage, which you can find the spreadsheet on line and enter the data yourself. You just need a standard blood test, CBC, and hsCRP, both of which you can have your doctor order or (in the US) order yourself. Michael Lustgarten, PhD, clued me into this.

[@aandrewb8411]

I'm fairly new to this podcast but love it. I am plant based (mostly). As someone who is nearly 60, I am finding the information on protein quite conflicting and confusing. To me, Longo seems to make the most sense, but I am concerned about going into older age with reduced muscle. Looking forward to you making sense of all this conflicting information on protein.

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

From what I understand of Dr. Longo’s work, you should eat slightly more protein (in the form of fish) after age 65 (I think). By slightly he means 10-15 grams per day. The reason is the digestive system isn’t as efficient at absorbing nutrients as we age, not because we need more protein Edit: I’m vegan plant based, so I won’t be eating animals (I don’t consider fish healthy because of the microplastics, added hormones and antibiotics from water run-off into oceans and lakes), but I will eat more vegan protein like soy, beans, tofu, etc

[@jimpatek6244]

Just a suggestion: There is a very informative review available on PubMed dated 21Dec 2021 titled Strategies to Prevent Sarcopenia in the Aging Process: The Role of Protein Intake and Exercise by Rogeri et al. It is a very complete summary of research in this area including comparisons of plant vs animal protein.

[@littlevoice_11]

Does it also apply to muscle loss due to illness or malnutrition?

[@saganspirit]

Great info' - watch at 1.5

[@soultox]

Hey Simon. Im plant based like you. My Cronometer shows Leucine 6.6 and Methionine 1.3g. Full daily protein is around 90g. 2200Cal/day. What is urs Leu and Methionine etc. ? Good health my friend!

[@dawnmunger64]

Love the podcast, I have heard and seen Dr. Lingo many times. I am a 52 year old vegan female, I try to eat well balancd, I exercise and fast. All my wellness health checks are perfect except I had my Dr. order an IGF-1 test that I fasted for and my number came back 595!! My Dr. said this is within range but according to Dr. Longo it should be within 120-180 so now I'm afraid of what am I doing wrong? You mentioned getting yours tested, I can give up eating nuts and do more cold therapy? I'm at a loss?

[@dawnmunger64]

@The Proof with Simon Hill The test was Insulin-like-GF-II my results in units-ng/ml was 595 the reference range says 267-616.. I fastest about 20 hrs before my test only having water and tea! I'm really concerned not eating meat the only protein I may over consume would be nuts. I have been planning on trying Indide Tracker but it is expensive and this test was cheaper and available to me from my Dr. I'm wondering what other factors are contributing to this high number 🤔

[@dawnmunger64]

@The Proof with Simon Hill I was probably consuming about a cup of nuts a day, I will cut that back to just a few brazilian and hope that brings it down!

[@sssteviep]

I just have one question. Which side do you lean more to, the lower protein for more longevity or higher protein?

[@arronbatchvarov5035]

Your body is made of protien. These people don't know what there on about.

[@arleenm7367]

Thanks for these discussions! But the protein debate is driving me crazy. I'm approaching 65. Do I increase protein and add weight training (for bone health) or decrease protein and add fasting (for cancer prevention)?

[@arleenm7367]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thank you. I've been plant-based for several years now, and doing ultra-long distance running and walking. I guess I need to cut back on the distance and add some weight training.

[@bfolkens]

@@trentonharris7676 Do you have a link to any studies that show deuterium (heavy water) is disease promoting? I can't find anything except carnivore diet blogs and websites selling water equipment making those claims. Most plant foods contain deuterium in amounts less than that of bottled/spring/etc water (150ppm), and indeed, more than some animal foods. However, it seems that some literature indicates a protective (anti-oxidative) effect: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7664117/

[@bfolkens]

@@trentonharris7676 that's great that there's so many researchers working on it. Shouldn't be too hard to find some references then (in humans, of course) :)

[@hugopottisch8002]

The reason why resistance training can lower IGF-1 temporarily is that muscle building binds AAs. It's the excess AAs that seem to be the real problem. But in the long run, more protein needs due to too much muscle building will lead to more IGF-1. There is a certain price we pay for too much muscle.

[@hugopottisch8002]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill You are very cool for being open minded re the science. Kudos and thanks for your work!

[@cararetos]

Do you check your Manganese and Copper intake? All vegan soucers with high protein has very high levels of Mn and Cu. That could be a problem if you need a lot of non animal protein

[@openmind8620]

Some types of sauna use can increase human growth hormone, and consequently IGF 1. So, potentially that sauna protocol (it's pretty specific) is linked to increased potential for cancer? Anyone any thoughts?

[@amycaruthers7858]

Do certain amino acids raise IGF 1 more than others? What about leucine and lysine? I’m particularly curious about leucine as I eat a plant based diet. Should a person supplement lysine since plant based foods are deficient in it?

[@bfolkens]

Ironically, I used to have issues with Lysine when I was on an omnivorous diet. After I went plant-based that was resolved.

[@iewauhedoc9970]

@@bfolkens legume and peas like chickpeas are high in lysine.

[@kardste8114]

Question to Dr. Longo? Would he agree that in fighting active cancer via diet- it is best to keep animal protein low, (methianine, etc), keep fats low, keep iron on low side, keep salt low due to platelet sticking, etc., eats lots of fresh vegetables and some fruit? Did I miss anything?

[@eileenkast4982]

QUESTION. This was a little confusing to me. Is Dr. Longo saying that vegan diet is fine as long as you eat nuts and seeds or is he saying that you should use fish instead?

[@carnivoroussarah]

I suspected a pituitary tumor and no one would listen. I had an MRI for my repeat migraines and it came back with an enlarged pituitary gland. The radiologist said it was fine. This was in 2021. A few weeks ago I got a few blood work done on pituitary hormones. ACTH was fine LH was elevated GH wasn't measured properly (we need a sugar test and Quest didn't give me one) IGF-1 was elevated slightly TSH was fine Prolactin was fine Any more im leaving out were fine too I eat lots of animal protein and dairy for mental illness. My doctor said that was likely the cause. She ordered me to reduce it by a THIRD of what I was eating before and we would retest 10/30/23. I will figure out once and for all if animal protein increases IGF-1. I take amino acids taurine, glycine, theanine, glutamine, creatine, and tyrosine for mental health. I am stopping all of them as well. I will try to remember to update this post once my blood work is in next month. I'm very disappointed that I can't eat so much meat but I'm gonna have to. I will replace with plant protein because I'm just not used to a low protein diet and know I will be starving. This is the ultimate test funded by no bias. If I don't update by 11/10/23, feel free to comment on one of my videos if anyone is interested.

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

You are biased though… you clearly state a high preference for animal based protein sources It’s anecdotal and that’s it. Good luck though

[@FreeToBe_Me]

What were your results? Any updates?

[@jb_1971]

Even Walter Longo said that we need some IGF-1 to promote stem cells proliferation after a prolonged fast. So no, not all clear-cut. BTW, Rhonda Patrick has an extremely interesting and balance take on this. "Rhonda Patrick meat" on YT.

[@tnvol5331]

numbers??? what is too high and what is healthy for each age range

[@tnvol5331]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill would that range be accurate for someone 74 yrs old?

[@terrybartick1754]

I’m 64, with dr Valter Longo create cure’s foundation. I follow my diet as they tell me … before this I was strong vegan for 3 years. I just recently received my iGF-1 Was 157. I eat 2-3 serving of berries with 3 tablespoons of oats. Soaked overnight. 1/2 walnut milk 1/2 water. Hemp flax and 3 Brazil nuts. Lunch- large salad with greens n cruciferous vegetables n kimchi. Dinner- beans n rice with steamed vegetables. Or something similar. A humus wrap…etc. fast 6 pm - 8 Am. Daily. Lot of lemon water and water. I’m boring🎉❤

[@rwh4114]

Great follow up. Wasn't comfortable with the use of examples that involved significant polymorphisms. (Laron Syndrom or those with other genetic mutations that contribute to longevity like Sardinian centenarians that are life long smokers). It would be great to see human studies in healthy/normal populations. This helped make things clearer. Titrating based on muscle balance sounds really difficult.

[@KM-pq7sr]

Stupid amount of advert breaks in this video

[@Primetime_dads]

Did he say that you can’t have low protein when you get older?

[@carinaekstrom1]

Did I understand this right: Because you are vegan, even though your diet is varied and you get all the different amino acids that you need, you are still lower in the ones that drive IGF1 and cancer?

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Yes, so higher in those amino acids promoting IGF1 compared to vegans that are not trying to build extra muscle, but lower than "muscle builders" eating animal protein. Maybe you are even higher in IGF1 than omnivores not building extra muscle. Now I'm wondering if just maintaining a large muscle mass increases IGF1, or if it's just during the initial growth period that IGF1 is increased.

[@bfolkens]

Also non-vegans are likely ingesting exogenous sources of IGF-1 (chicken, eggs, etc.) vs only the amino acids promoting higher levels endogenously.

[@dajackalz]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill If I recall you also take a couple of protein shakes daily. The vegan shakes I've come across have added BCAAs which I imagine would spike IGF1 to be similar to those consuming animal protein. Any cause for concern taking vegan protein shakes with added BCAAs?

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@trentonharris7676 Proof? Because as far as I know there's only anti cancer effect on plants recorded in science. Edible plants used correctly, that is.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@trentonharris7676 So far, all evidence points to whole plants being very healthy and prolonging life. Did you listen to all the evidence about IGF1? How people with low levels don't get cancer etc.?

[@dannywitt5160]

Mitigating one condition may exasterbate another.

[@dannywitt5160]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Yes, potentially. I would be curious to know what Dr. Longos thoughts were on sarcopenia.

[@aqualane1]

Darn it, I just bought some IGF1-LR3. I guess that’s going into the trash. :-(

[@bobcocampo]

Is exercise causing cancer by increasing IGF 1

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

No, a sedentary life is a risk factor of cancer.

[@juliastantic3033]

Sorry, butt , the sound is bad, hardly could hear Dr. Longo.

[@juliastantic3033]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Could be, I will try again with sound up.👍Thanks.

[@k.h.6991]

Elderly people at an advanced age at some point stop feeding themselves well. Their hunger drive diminishes and if they're still independent, the quality of their food also diminishes. If you want to keep such people alive, obviously you're going to have to get their nutrition up and low protein is not a good idea. To what extent have relatively healthy older people been lumped in (statistically) with this group that's basically lost their biological will to live? In other words: should a reasonably healthy and active 75 year old, who is not losing weight, look at increasing their protein intake?

[@unavailablename8548]

You can't do a study on health products without removing all environmental toxins. There are to many variables affecting the study.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

You can. That is the point of randomization.

[@pastryshack551]

I feel sorry for these guys! Look at the way he is aging.

[@roxana262]

Haha. Heaving in mind that he is already 55 year old I would like to see how well are YOU aging. 😅

[@pastryshack551]

@@roxana262 I meant no disrespect to the dr. My point, they are working so hard, it ages you. As for my aging, I am doing great! Went to get my blood work done the dr says I am like 25. Most people think I am 50, but I a very healthy 77 year old, I can't understand how I am so healthy and every one I meat is sick. I wonder what the answer is.

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

hes probably had a hard stressful life and work long long hours trying to figure out what drives human longevity or shortegivty

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

@@pastryshack551 ah, blessed with great genes

[@jacquelinedella-santa2451]

@@panes840 yes, I am with you, being kind costs nothing