Proving the Immortality of the Soul to Jehovah's Witnesses

[@nateq]

Eye opening as always. It's so clear JWs misinterpret the Bible

[@theologywithseth]

Agreed! Thank you for watching

[@serafin1352]

I was raised a jw and was in for over 30yrs. So I do see their theological viewpoint although muddled with biased and blatant incorrect doctrine. I also see what you are gleaning here. Def deeper research is needed for me personally on this matter. I very much appreciate your work on this, a good starting point for me. Thx

[@theologywithseth]

I'm so glad you made it out of the Watchtower and I'm very grateful that you've been willing to watch my content. I hope it's helpful to you and if you have any questions, just let me know!

[@rickyoung360]

The fact that the soul lives on after physical death is easy to see in the scriptures. However, the JW's have an authority above Gods Word, the Watchtower. Why take the word of one God when you have a group of corporate executives that tell you otherwise??

[@theologywithseth]

It's very sad, but based on everything I've seen in my JW studies in this series, that seems to be the case. Everything eventually boils down to whatever the Watchtower says, regardless of how clear the Biblical text is. Let's be in prayer that God would help JW's to have eyes to see and ears to hear!

[@mamajan99]

"corporate executives": "They worship by repeating rules made up by humans." Isaiah 29:13

[@mamajan99]

A soul without thoughts? Really? "His breath will go out, he returns to his earth; in that very day ALL HIS THOUGHTS PERISH. His breath goes forth, he returns to the earth" Ps 146:4 DOA

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@mamajan99 while I have any being Psalm 146:2 KJV

[@Bernadette-i3p]

@@mamajan99 I looked up the Hebrew translation and it says "his spirit" not "his breath". And it says "his plans" not "his thoughts" perish. Whenever I have a question about things (but you probably don't questions verses), I go to the original language it was written in so I can get the proper translation. Bible Hub is great for that. You can even see where that word is used in other verses so you make sure you are correct in your understanding.

[@Sojourner-ambulareinspiritu]

You’ve no idea how helpful this is for me. I was raised in the organization and while I still have nothing but love for my family and those I knew, the theology they believe has always conflicted with what I knew to be biblically true particularly when it comes to this issue - atleast to my understanding. I brought up the immortality of the soul multiple times to my family and to elders and even after pointing out scriptural support I was eventually more or less told to drop it - quite aggressively in one instance by an elder sadly. But I always felt that what they said about the soul dying was just wrong. Thank you so much for your research. It means so much🙏

[@Sojourner-ambulareinspiritu]

@@TboneWTF Well, I consider everything written in the Bible to be true.

[@theologywithseth]

I'm so glad you made it out of the Watchtower! It sounds like the Lord has been at work in your life for a long time now and I'm so glad you enjoyed my video. I've made a handful of videos about JW theology over the last few months so feel free to check out my playlist on them if you're interested! I'll also be in prayer for your family as well

[@robertmardis2110]

Same for me as well!

[@Sojourner-ambulareinspiritu]

@@theologywithseth thank you! I will check out your other videos for sure 👍

[@FantasyVisuals]

They always quote Ecclesiastes 9:5 to " prove " support their doctrine , unaware that the whole context of that is a metaphor. Which they would know if they were competent scholars

[@theologywithseth]

True, and it also just amazes me that they'd let a disputed verse from way back in Ecclesiastes nullify *entire stories* in the New Testament that are much closer to the heart of our faith. It's just utter folly and hopefully enough Christians will see this video to know how to graciously demonstrate that to JW's

[@FantasyVisuals]

@theologywithseth revelation ( is it 4:11) the souls of the slain cry out to God in heaven for justice. They try and put THAT down as a metaphor !

[@universalman5861]

@@FantasyVisuals The same souls were given white robes to wear. I'm guessing you did not read that far.

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@FantasyVisuals Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 KJV denys resurrection

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@FantasyVisuals the rich man was bodily in the grave Luke 16

[@rhondahart2416]

Thanks so much and you're very loving!

[@theologywithseth]

Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@SleepWalker108]

Wonderful video! Yesterday I was thinking about how the Holy Bible actually shows the immortality of the soul. Then your video came. Brilliant, sir!

[@theologywithseth]

It must be the Lord's timing! Thank you for watching and I'm so glad it was helpful!

[@rodrigolopez9286]

Hello. I AM a member of the LDS Church. About 40 years ago I realized about this passage in Luke 23 and about the comma. JW are very wrong

[@theologywithseth]

Hello Rodrigo, thank you for commenting! What is your backstory? Did you convert to Mormonism after being a JW?

[@erickreed5981]

Yessir, the comma in the wrong place @ Luke 23:43

[@Frxggay]

I’d love you to do some videos refuting Mormon/LDS teachings

[@peterzinya1]

Mormon is wack. Thats all you need to know.

[@theologywithseth]

They're next! Lord willing, I'm planning on launching an entire series on Mormonism within the next 2-3 months so I hope you'll stick around!

[@mattmurdock2868]

Christ csme to preach the gospel to the living and the dead. The three days the body of Jesus lay in the tomb, this is what Christ was doing in the Spirit... "They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." 1.Pet.4:5,6

[@Scott48-w9i]

preached to the dead when they were alive

[@Pootycat8359]

I wrote my previous comment prior to it being mentioned later 😀 But as for "sleep," do these JWs not recall their dreams? And research conducted in "sleep labs" indicates that even during the deepest phase of sleep, we are conscious.

[@theologywithseth]

That's a great point! Even in sleep, we don't stop existing. Thanks for sharing!

[@Pootycat8359]

@@theologywithseth What's amazing is that in all the JW literature that I've encountered, explaining why we aren't conscious after death, they always mention the Bible passages that compare death with sleep. I know some people don't remember their dreams, but most do.

[@sarahstevens3050]

FIRST!!!!

[@mil-ns3rc]

🎉

[@theologywithseth]

Glad you're here!

[@allandahma4825]

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@theologywithseth]

You're very welcome!

[@JOJACKJAPANLOLAMIYAZAKI]

❤❤❤

[@JOJACKJAPANLOLAMIYAZAKI]

I always watching you sir. I learned so much from your teaching. thank you so much❤️❤️❤️

[@theologywithseth]

I really appreciate that! Thank you for watching

[@GionaSperanza-ne7fh]

Thank you Seth. Wonderful video. Please, how do you explain Gen 3:19 you are clay, and into clay you shall go back?

[@theologywithseth]

Hi @GionaSperanza-ne7fh! I take Genesis 3:19 to be a reference to Adam & Eve's physical bodies. Just as they were made from dust, one day they would die and their physical bodies would return to dust. I don't think it's talking about their *soul* per se. My understanding is that their bodies were created from the ground, but their souls were breathed into them by God (Genesis 2:7) so I see a distinction there. Hope that helps!

[@vill7777]

I look at it. That god made Man out of the ground when God. breathed into him. He didn't breathe air per se but his very person making man in his image and likeness

[@GionaSperanza-ne7fh]

@@theologywithseth Thanks for your help.

[@erickreed5981]

IMHO, 100% spot on, just like this vid, thank you!

[@ADP2085]

Great information only one caveat thou.. there is a teaching in the in the watchtower theology that explains all of these scriptures for while they dont believe that the vast majority of humans have an immortal soul they DO believe that the anointed class of 144k do an experience all of these scriptures when they die. But for the rest of mankind when they die they ceast to exist. So the jw has to understand first that EVERYONE has a soul that lives on then they can begin to understand that the different aspects of the afterlife

[@theologywithseth]

That is certainly a possible response, but the first resurrection to heaven of the anointed class isn't supposed to have started until 1914 when Christ began his second presence, according to their theology. So that wouldn't explain why Paul expected to go to Heaven immediately upon death, or why there are clearly many "souls" currently interacting with God in Heaven in Revelation 6. Moreover, Matthew 22 strongly implies that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were in Heaven even in Jesus's day, and they lived long before Jehovah began choosing his anointed class. Also the rich man who died in Luke 16 clearly didn't go to Heaven, which means he certainly could not have been part of the 144k, yet he was obviously conscious after death. Finally, the thief on the cross went to Paradise with Christ the same day he died, so that would be yet another problem with that response. So I think if a JW tries to argue in that way, they just need to be reminded of what the Watchtower teaches and it effectively refutes itself. Here's an article you can check out if you want to see their teaching on the 1914 resurrection date... www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-the-resurrection/

[@TheDejaVuuuuuu]

Can you do a video debunking paradise earth?

[@theologywithseth]

I'm planning to make a video about the 144,000 pretty soon so I'm sure I can touch on it then! I hope you'll stick around

[@TheDejaVuuuuuu]

@ I will be looking out for it !

[@GalaxyCat001]

Whats wrong with paradise Earth, the Bible says God will remake the Earth & the Heavens so the new Earth will be a paradise Earth

[@TheDejaVuuuuuu]

@@GalaxyCat001 nothing is wrong with your view. JWs believe 144k are in heaven but the “other sheep” remain our Earth without God living with us. The JW paradise earth isn’t biblical not the Christian view.

[@movingloz]

Wow. So interesting.

[@theologywithseth]

I think so! Thanks for watching

[@skykiss12]

"And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.: Revelation 22:8,9. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Rev. 19:10 That was not an angel, but a departed saint prophet. The Angels of God do not have the testimony of Jesus, coz they don't need it, having never been lost.

[@rhondahart2416]

It would have said prophet . In Revelation there is a large Angel that stands upon the seas calling out for people to come to Christ so he is testifying. When people go to heaven we don't become angels.

[@Pootycat8359]

Charles Russel got much of his doctrine from a Seventh Say Adventist minister, and the SDA Church maintains we don't have souls that survive physical death. They base their belief on a passage in Ecclesiastes, which states, "The dead know nothing." But Solomon wasn't a prophet, and there's no reason to assume what he wrote was divinely inspired, and besides, that passage can be interpreted in a number of ways.

[@cygnustsp]

Russell had nothing to do with SDA. He was more influenced by christadelphians but rejected their idea that Jesus had no pre-existence.

[@Pootycat8359]

@@cygnustsp "Charles Taze Russell ...., or Pastor Russell, was an American Adventist minister..." Apparently, he wasn't just influenced by an SDA minister, he WAS one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

[@rhondahart2416]

@@cygnustsp Oh contrare , He was in the SDA for awhile and when he left he ripped off a lot of their ideas. The SDA idea of hell and that Jesus is Michael the arch angel is the same as the J Dubs.

[@cygnustsp]

@@Pootycat8359 no no no Adventist doesn't mean SDA and Russell never knew or cared about Ellen White

[@cygnustsp]

@@rhondahart2416 he agreed with soul sleep and the Jesus=Michael thing was long held before SDA, but he rejected nearly everything else SDA held. Read carefully and you'll see that while both Russell and White were nutcases they were a product of their time and went entirely different ways while both suggesting modern churches got it wrong. They weren't the only ones, they had acquaintances, but they didn't work that much together. Just read what White and Russell wrote and you'll see very little in common.

[@GreggBuckley]

Hi Seth, again a very informative video. Thank you. However, I would like to comment on Luke 16:19 - 31, and the *parable* of Lazarus and the rich man. Why do I believe that it's a parable? Well first, I agree that Luke records the Greek, root word Noun παραβολή or parabolē, a total of 16 times in his Gospel, where it isn't recorded here in this instance. And I also agree that in these passages the proper name Lazarus is recorded 4 times too, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an *illustrative teaching* of something that exists, and is real. The reason that this is a parable is because it would be *impossible* for Lazarus to enter God's Kingdom. Yeshua hadn't finished His work on the Cross yet, and for Lazarus to somehow be able to see and enter God's Kingdom, *contradicts* what Yeshua tell Nicodemus in John 3:2-7.

[@theologywithseth]

Hi Gregg! Thank you for your thoughtful comment and I appreciate your insight! Either way, as you said, it still teaches about something that really exists- namely, an immediately conscious afterlife for both believers and unbelievers. Cheers!

[@GreggBuckley]

@@theologywithseth On that we both agree brother. God Bless.✝

[@GreggBuckley]

@universalman5861 I received a question from you in my inbox, where when I went to reply, I couldn't locate your post, so, I'll try to answer it for you here. You asked me, *So how do you respond to St. Luke 13:28 : "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." Is this a parable as well?* I suspect that you are wondering how *Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were able to see and enter God's Kingdom prior to Yeshua finishing His work on the Cross* , as I had stated that it was impossible for Lazarus to do so above. Though there is more, the quick answer would be, that the Mosaic Law hadn't been employed and put into force yet. *Blood for the atonement for man's souls* (although a foreshadowing) didn't come into effect until it was expressed in Leviticus 17:11. (Until *Father God expresses, dictates, or commands an edict* there isn't a law to break. This is what Paul means by Romans 4:15, & 5:13, and what John confirms in 1John 3:4.) Neither Abram/Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob/Israel were ever guilty of transgressing the Mosaic Law, because the Mosaic Law wasn't revealed until Sinai/Horeb (Deuteronomy 5:1-3.) Therefore no *Blood Sacrifice by Yeshua* was required for any of them. However, Lazarus (having been after Abraham's life had ended in the parable, and dead while Yeshua was still alive before His finished work on the Cross) would have been (Romans 5:20), and he would have required that *Blood Atoning Sacrifice.* None of us can be *born again of the Spirit, or second born* until after Yeshua's sacrifice, and after He had been Glorified, (John 7:39.) Whereas (although another foreshadowing), I'm sure that you are aware that Abram was declared to be *Righteous through his Faith* in God's promise (Genesis 15:6., Nehemiah 9:7,8.) It was *Father YHVH declaring Abram to be Justified and Righteous* which allowed for him to see and enter God's Kingdom. Isaac, and Jacob also demonstrated their faith as well, however, to explain how, would take far too long in this format. I hope that this helped answer your question.

[@DavidPeter-v3e]

Well done Seth , but the question that I have is - if people were already conscious ( in heaven or hell ) after death, since as you said - Jesus told the Religious leaders - God is a God of the living and not the dead , then why did Jesus need to come and die on the Cross for our sins, if people were already in heaven or hell ?

[@michellebernal5668]

People in the Old Testament who were damned went directly to hell, you cannot escape hell. That’s a state of existence where you are immediately condemned for eternity. Righteous people were in Abraham’s bosom, not technically heaven but more of like a waiting room. Actually technically a type of hell, but it’s a place of comfort. No one is worthy of heaven, nothing impure can get into heaven, so Jesus our savior made us clean so we now have to chance to be with God again. That’s why Jesus went to Abraham’s bosom

[@theologywithseth]

Hi David! That's a great question. I would answer that they were allowed into Heaven on the basis of Christ's *future* sacrifice. Paul says that Christ's sacrifice was to "show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins" (Romans 3:25), which I take to mean that God forgave Old Testament believers with the understanding that Christ would one day pay for their sins. In other words, Christ's sacrifice was still necessary, but the benefits of it were applicable even in Old Testament times. Hope that helps in some way!

[@DavidPeter-v3e]

Thanks - but if I may ask - doesn't Jesus say in John 3: 13 - " No one has ascended to heaven but he that came down from heaven. That is, the Son of man who is in heaven. " also in Peter's sermon in Acts 2: 34 he said ; "For David did not Ascend into heaven...." So it sounds like to me that no one had yet Ascended to heaven , at least in the time of Jesus and the Apostle Peter.

[@mailynrebecca]

@@DavidPeter-v3eLook up what orthodox say about it. Up to my understanding they have preserved the true faith for the past 2.000 yrs. I am about to convert to orthodox hopefully soon.

[@rhondahart2416]

@@theologywithseth Does that also explain Acts 17:30 ?

[@cesarguadarrama8732]

If there is inmortality, there s no need for resurection

[@mr.boboman5701]

Not true at all. God created Adam and Eve. With a body and soul and with a plan. But they fell. And then now all flesh died through them. Soo the resurrection returns our body to Adam and eves original state but even better.

[@theologywithseth]

I would agree with @mr.boboman5701. God's ideal is not for us to be disembodied spirits forever. His ultimate aim is to have us resurrected in a glorified body made new, on a perfect Earth to dwell with God forever. But none of that takes away from the fact that our souls still live on immediately after we die

[@cygnustsp]

First century Christianity was originally very terrestrial. Paul expected an earthly kingdom. A brief, very brief period where believes would meet Jesus"in the air" (whatever that means) and then to have glorified bodies but not in heaven, right here on earth. This whole "heaven when you die" stuff became popular after the predictions of Jesus and Paul didn't happen and the Jewish view of the kingdom didn't happen. I have never understand why Christians insist that the greeks were right and the Jews were wrong all along.

[@theologywithseth]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Couldn't it be true that when Christians die, their souls go to be with God in Heaven, but then when Jesus returns and raises us from the dead, we get physical bodies to live with him on a renewed Earth?

[@cygnustsp]

@theologywithseth that's the argument I gave to my JW mother, kindly. If nothing survives death, what is there to resurrect? You wouldn't be you, you'd be a copy of you. It's all very mysterious and will always be so.

[@theologywithseth]

@cygnustsp You're spot-on! Christianity has historically taught that even though our souls to to be with God in Heaven immediately upon death, that's technically a *temporary* state of existence. In fact, systematic theology textbooks often refer to it as "the intermediate state". But we also believe that one day, Jesus will come back to Earth, raise all believers from the dead, and our souls will be reunited to glorified physical bodies and we'll live with Christ on a perfect earth forever. Since there's a continuous line of consciousness, the resurrected person is still *us* . I made a video about it a while back and I'll link it below. Hope it helps a bit! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHLTkJWljNCandE

[@mailynrebecca]

@@theologywithsethThat‘s how it is and will be! Also according orthodox teaching, which have been preserved and never changed since 33 A.D. Former JW speaking. 😊

[@rhondahart2416]

Read 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14

[@rogersacco4624]

How about immortal souls of a baby or 2 year old,?Living to god?

[@cygnustsp]

Augustine talked about the quickening of fetuses and when they'd achieve personhood. It's all conjecture. Christianity has to make stuff up.

[@rhondahart2416]

Romans 5:13 Sin was in the world before the law but sin is not charged when there is no law. It can be argued this way when is there no law? When you don't understand right from wrong. When is that? When you are too young which is a baby or small child. Romans 7:9 Paul says almost the same thing in this verse also. Also when David committed sin with Bathsheba their son died as a result of their sin. When asked why he fasted before the baby died and after he died David washed and ate, David replied that his son can not come to him but he will go to his son one day. We know that David was righteous so he meant with the Lord.

[@lanialania8387]

Paul was anointed by God and when the anointed die they go to heaven. The scripture in Revelation is a vision John had and all those he saw that were crying out to Jesus were Gods anointed. Only the Chosen have a hope to Reign with Christ in Heaven.

[@theologywithseth]

@lanialania8387 That's an interesting take! I thought the resurrection didn't happen until *after* the battle of Armageddon though. Is that not correct?

[@GalaxyCat001]

@@theologywithseth The 1st resurrection is of the Jews that were saved (pre church & post church) and go into the millennial kingdom. The Rapture is a separate resurrection from that of the Jewish program of events,. Church & Jews are separate once the rapture takes place.

[@FrankLee-gq8yc]

​@theologywithseth 1cor15:23"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming." When is Christ's "coming"? It wasn't straight after his death, ps110:1 tells us he sat at God's right hand and waited. I wish you took the time to understand what we actually believe before making a video about our beliefs, that's not best practice, generally. Is there a way to contact you privately? I don't see an email address

[@theologywithseth]

@FrankLee-gq8yc Frank! First off, where have you been? I haven't heard from you and I was actually starting to get a bit worried. I'm not understanding your comment though. Can you try rephrasing it?

[@albertcastaneda8832]

The belief in everlasting soul that goes on living after death is a pagan doctrine

[@mamajan99]

"Im-Mortality" means no death. See 2 Thessalonians 1:9 "eternal destruction" = Death, αἰώνιον ὄλεθρον (aiōnion olethron) The second death of Revelation is not "immortality" by any means. See Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 20:14, and 21:8

[@cygnustsp]

I exited the JWs a long time ago I've never thought the Bible or Jesus or Paul thought the immortality of the soul was a thing as today's Christians believe. Yeah Christians got that idea from the greeks eventually but the Bible gives mixed messages. The thing is "resurrection" doesn't make sense either way.

[@rhondahart2416]

We have to remember that God's ways are not our ways. If we have a god that we fully understand then we don't have the one true God. Deut.29:29 The secret things are for God to use but the things He chooses to reveal to the people are for them to use.

[@GalaxyCat001]

21:07 Also if you cease to exist when you die then God recreates you from information He has about you. Consequently He could create 100 'yous' if He wanted to & have them running around in Heaven. Clearly they can not all be the original person. If however you don't cease to exist, then God can only resurrect 1 true you, any others He made, if He did, would be acknowledged as being copies. Its not so much that consciousness has to survive death but that something that is you & unique to you needs to survive death and is needed for you to be resurrected, this probably is consciousness but could be something else, spirit etc. Alternatively your consciousness may survive death but in an inactivated state until resurrection.

[@theologywithseth]

Exactly! That's why it's so important that there's an unbroken continuation of consciousness from "you" today to "you" at the resurrection. Otherwise, you could work for Jehovah all your life but *somebody else* gets your rewards! That would disturb me to no end if I were a JW

[@GalaxyCat001]

@@theologywithseth Well something that is you needs to continue, its probably consciousness but it could also be a consciousness in a deactivated state that is reactivated when God reunites it with a body.

[@rhondahart2416]

@@GalaxyCat001 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 refutes that. Scripture can not contradict itself.

[@GalaxyCat001]

@@rhondahart2416 Refutes what exactly, its not clear what you are trying to say by quoting that bible verse

[@rhondahart2416]

@@GalaxyCat001 Paul is stating that Jesus is bringing with Him the souls , their bodies are asleep. If they're with Him then they're fully conscious. Verse 16 states that the bodies will rise, meaning they will be glorified and be reunited with the soul.

[@bygeorgehemayberite8385]

So the religion actually do believe in the cited scriptures used to debunk their theology; the problem is, they’ve been taught (& this can be found throughout various articles in their publications) that the New Testament is primarily written for anointed Christians, only. So these passages apply to their 144,000, & not mankind in general. Even 1 Tim. 2:5 have been said to only apply to “men” who r anointed, & that the other sheep r benefactors based upon how they treat Christ’s brothers. So there’s some caveat to this belief.

[@theologywithseth]

I don't think it solves the problems. One of the passages I use in the video (Matthew 22) implies Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in Heaven even though they lived before Jehovah began choosing his anointed class. Likewise, the rich man in Luke 16 lived on after he died, but he clearly wasn't in heaven, which means he wasn't one of the 144,000 either. Plus, where would they get the idea that those other passages *only* refer to the "anointed class" in the first place? Does *even one Bible verse* say that anywhere? Seems like a desperate attempt to reinterpret the Bible to fit preconceived theology which is a bad move on anyone's part.

[@bygeorgehemayberite8385]

@ And now u see y they’ve moved the comma at Luke 23:42-43. The other part of their theology is that they teach no one entered into heaven before Jesus, including the criminal who put faith in Jesus. By moving the comma, it changes the context to fit their teaching that anyone dies before Jesus is sleeping in death, awaiting to be resurrected to earth. Since the criminal who put faith in Jesus died right before Jesus, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society found themselves in a pickle w/ that passage b/c it reads as an imminent promise; by moving the comma, it reads as Jesus is a making a statement that day, for a future reward. That’s the cleverness that’s been used to deceive their members.

[@theologywithseth]

@bygeorgehemayberite8385 Yeah, I remember stumbling across that for the first time. The New World Translation is full of subtle (and not-so-subtle) tricks like that. Even when I use it in my videos, I have to read it very carefully first just to make sure it still communicates what it's supposed to communicate.

[@rhondahart2416]

@@theologywithseth Amen

[@1highsheep]

Death is often called "sleep" One of your arguments is sleep is temporary.. death is also temporary.. with god the resurrection makes death temporary...

[@leeBoB4257]

You start talking about the soul in the Greek Scriptures I'll start in the Hebrew Scriptures with a king James Bible of 1887 the first time the word Soul is used concerning a Human is where we read at Genesis 2:7 which says And the lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed in to his nostrils the breath of life and the "man" "BECAME "A LIVING SOUL (nephesh) he wasn't given a soul he was the soul. Now read verse 17 , now Chapter 3 :4 the first LIE that man would not Die that LIE is still being taught, now read 3:19 where is Adam going to end up, still alive after he Dies like The Devil told him or where God told him where he would end up. Now read 5:5. Now tell me where Adam eventually ended up he ended up where he came from the Dust .Just one more Scripture Ezekiel 18:4. Please makeup your own mind what is the meaning of the word soul is it the person or something inside the person that can't DIE or can the soul DIE.

[@rhondahart2416]

Nephesh is not used exclusively in Hebrew as man is a soul.

[@leeBoB4257]

@rhondahart2416 Who said it was i said when MAN was created he Became a living Soul Nephesh I didn't say an Animal Soul Nephesh .

[@leeBoB4257]

@rhondahart2416 Who said it was i said when MAN was created he Became a living Soul Nephesh I didn't say an Animal Soul Nephesh .

[@rhondahart2416]

@leeBoB4257 I said Nepsesh in Hebrew is not used exclusively for man is a soul. It's also understood as man has a soul.

[@leeBoB4257]

@rhondahart2416 Please state Scriptures to back up what your saying, so if the first man Adam was a Soul and as you suggest he has a Soul where is Adam's Soul,and where did it go when he Died.

[@shawnamoen5026]

Love your videos but you have some scriptures wrong. You say luke 24 43 but you are quoting Luke 23 43. Several others are marked wrong also

[@theologywithseth]

Oh no! I'm usually a stickler about that sort of thing, but occasionally it does happen. I just went back through my slides to double-check everything, but the Luke 23:43/24:43 mix-up was the only issue I could find. What other verse(s) were marked wrong?

[@patrickpayne]

You are sadely mistaken if you think you can convince a JWs that the soul is immortal. Not once does the Bible say we possess an immortal soul that cannot die. We are nothing more than our memories

[@douglasellickson2161]

I would watch the video his information is refutable, take your watchtower lens off & read the Bible only. By the way, Seth is using the NWT

[@patrickpayne]

Adam became a living soul he was not given a soul. i see nothing that convinces me that possess a spirit or an eternal soul. JWs put their hope in the resurrection and so did early Christians.

[@1highsheep]

Where is adam and eve? Heaven or hell? Or else where. I know Trinitarians who say both.

[@theologywithseth]

The Bible doesn't explicitly say, but I've always been of the mindset that Adam and Eve are in Heaven. The reason I say this is because God had mercy on them in the Garden of Eden. He didn't take their lives when they sinned even though He had every right to, and he even goes so far as to cover over their shame with animal skins that He Himself made for them (Genesis 3:21). This seems to be a foreshadow of Christ covering our sin and shame with his sacrifice and it would seem strange for God to perform this gracious and loving gesture for them, only to turn right around and annihilate them forever. But that's just me. I hope that helps!

[@1highsheep]

​@@theologywithsethwhat did god say there punish was. From dust you are to dust you shall return. He didn't say and then join me in heaven. Why would they go to heaven when they were supposed to live forever on earth?

[@theologywithseth]

@1highsheep Well, if my conviction is correct, then one day they *will* live forever on earth, just like us! Your question pertains to where Adam and Eve are *today* , and I think the evidence, little though it is, points in the direction of Heaven. But that's not a hill I want to die on. I would encourage you to focus more on the main points brought up in the video, as opposed to a speculative question about Adam and Eve. Let me know if you have any other questions!

[@1highsheep]

​@theologywithseth well i did make another comment. Tbh there is to much in the video to discuss and you have plenty of people to talk to, so thanks for taking the time to respond. But my question i feel pertains to the video. If they are in the grave without an immortal soul, That would make sense to me. God said from dust you are to dust you shall return. It's a fair assumption that if they were in heaven we would know. It would really back up when you die you go to heaven. Just like Enoch. The Bible says Enoch walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21-24). Then Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven. So enoch much like Adam and Eve were not in heaven when jesus walked the earth. So they were just dead. They weren't in limbo. They were just dead. Sleeping. Temporary untill the day of judgment.

[@universalman5861]

​@1highsheep Believe me, you will get no further response from Seth. You cited probably the most critical scripture: they return to dust, which was not analysed in the video. The video is a propaganda tool meant to pander to the most uncritical of minds.

[@darrenkoglin3423]

Bro the scriptures state the soul can be destroyed by the Almighty

[@theologywithseth]

But how do you know the word "destroy" means to "wipe out of existence"? Even in English we frequently use it to mean other things. If you get "destroyed" in a sport or a debate, you still exist. It's just that you've been utterly defeated. Wouldn't that be a preferable interpretation instead of having to desperately explain away all the verses that teach an immortal soul in Scripture?

[@darrenkoglin3423]

@theologywithseth the very first lie satan told eve is that she wouldn't die,the Almighty told her if u eat from that tree from that day you will positively die well she didn't die on that day and she showed it to Adam so he ate what we had there was a misunderstanding eve didn't die on that day but she surely did die the same goes for now satan has the majority of those whom believe in a higher power eg God believing that well no u dont die u go off into some never never land well this is false once u die that's it until the resurrection then those who accept the messiah of YHWH and live according can keep living but those whom don't and ignore this suffer what is known as the 2nd death which is for eternity

[@GalaxyCat001]

Even if God can destroy the soul, that doesn't mean that you don't have a soul that survives your physical death that, if you are not saved, goes into a holding place that is not pleasant & that is ultimately destroyed nu God at some future point.

[@peterockbx]

Firstly, by you mentioning "mainstream Christians" seems to be a "argumentum ad populum fallacy" just because a majority agree does not necessarily mean that its true. In the case of Paul, if you give a fair representation of the witness argument you would have to consider the 144,000 and the heavenly hope. In Revelation 6 in context, we have a better understanding of the message this text is conveying. Let's consider the righteous Abel. in Genessi 4:10 it mentions "your brother's blood is crying out to me" which is comparable to the Christian martyrs in Rev 6. We would have to conclude that Abels blood was uttering words. This is one of a few examples we can learn through context. Your videos though voluminous miss the point, glossing over the understanding witnesses have on a particular subject is unfair

[@theologywithseth]

Hi @peterockbx, thanks for your thoughtful comment. My argument isn't that the immortality of the soul must be true since most Christians believe it. I was just saying that's the "mainstream" belief because most Christians believe it. Whether or not it's true has to be determined by examining the biblical text, which was what the rest of the video was about. According to jw.org, "The Bible foretold that the resurrection to heaven would take place during Christ’s presence, which began in 1914." Since Paul's writings and the events of Revelation 6 take place long before 1914, that reply wouldn't be consistent with official JW teaching on the timing of the first resurrection. It's true that Genesis 4:10 records Abel's blood crying out, but it doesn't ascribe actual dialogue to it like Revelation does. In any event, there are so many passages that seem to strongly imply the immortality of the soul that even if one or two could be explained away, I would still rest easy knowing that this is a biblical doctrine. At the very least, you have to admit our case is stronger than the JW case, which is only based on a few isolated phrases way back in Ecclesiastes and Ezekiel

[@peterockbx]

@@theologywithseth Hello Seth, it still seems an argument based on popularity and circular reasoning. Paul was relating a prophecy on future events which include "the first resurrection" of those who would be joint heirs with Christ which would include Paul. In the case of Rev 6 and considering the context in Gen 4:10 we can see a similarity despite in Revelation going into more detail. God states your brother's blood is crying out to me which is also contextually supported in Heb 12:24 where it claims Jesus's blood "speaks in a better way than Abel's blood" The rich man and Lazarus example has been explained as a parable that many (not limited to witnesses) agree with. What justified the rich man being sent to a fiery punishment? What benefit would Lazarus dipping his finger in water be for the rich man? An explanation of the parable is the rich man represented the self-important religious leaders who failed to feed the people spiritually. Lazarus represented the ones who excepted Christ. So, this parable explains a change of condition as opposed to immortality of the soul nor hellfire

[@Pootycat8359]

I don't HAVE a soul, I AM one, and have a body. I know, because I've had one OBE, for sure, and a few more possible ones.

[@ronhansen8471]

There is no afterlife unless you are a Baal worshiper or Catholic. When people die, they cease to exist according to God's word the bible. If they suffer a second death they cease to exist for eternity. (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust. (Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. (Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going. (Psalm 146:3, 4) Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.

[@ravikeller9626]

Lol! Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video

[@sarahstevens3050]

???? My friend did you watch the video or are you just commenting a snap judgment????

[@sarahstevens3050]

@@ravikeller9626 😂

[@reelmsy3831]

Ecclesiastes 9:5 refers to the state of resting death (which the poor man lazarus gets in the New Testament) before Jesus' sacrifice created a different fate for us faithful. Revelation refers to this fate.

[@ronhansen8471]

@@ravikeller9626 What video? I never watch these videos as they are designed to denigrate JW's and the JW organization. Proving immortality of the soul to JWs is not difficult considering Jesus Christ was given immortality and all those selected from earth to be part of his heavenly kingdom will be given immortality. The Bible states the soul can die: “The soul that is sinning-it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4)

[@ELNENEPR50]

What you need to understand the Paul kind of roll his own Gospels, he actually teach a lot of doctrines that Jesus Christ never thought. A lot of scholars agrees that Paul created his own version of Christianity. And yes in the Bible says that when you die you will go to like a non-existence until God resurrection and you go to judgment Day, which is going to be after the Armageddon that has not happened yet so you can be judge and that's when you gain eternal life or eternal death. It doesn't make any sense that if I die now I'm in heaven and then I go to judgement day and then I stay in heaven. So why go to! Use common sense please.. and also in the Bible says that yes that God is able to terminate the soul.

[@shojwiebelhaus1391]

In order for this to be given any credibility we would need to see the other apostles disagreeing with Paul which we don't. Jesus revealed himself to Paul, Paul's words were immortalized in scripture, if the Holy Spirit spoke to Paul it wouldn't matter if Jesus didn't teach those things while he was ministering. However we also don't know that Jesus didn't think and teach those things, just because they aren't included in the four gospels doesn't mean it wasn't something that Jesus didn't cover with his disciples in private; so much of Jesus' life and ministry was not recorded. Also the biggest group of people saying Paul has his own version of Christianity are Muslims. I don't know what your beliefs are but if Muslims are agreeing with you its pretty safe to assume your the one with the incorrect view on the Bible.

[@GalaxyCat001]

Jesus ministry was to the Jews whereas Paul was tasked to minister to the gentiles. The Jews rejected Jesus so God turned around & for a time is offering grace to the gentiles & Paul is our main apostle on that. When the church age ends (rapture) God will again turn His attention back to the Jews but that 2 groups are treated slightly differently though they both need to believe & accept Jesus.

[@kathleen2992]

They would simply explain that those are the 144,000

[@theologywithseth]

Hmmm... I don't think that explanation would work for Matthew 22 since it speaks of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as being in Heaven, when they lived long before Jehovah began choosing his 144,000. What do you think?

[@cygnustsp]

​@@theologywithsethand yet John says nobody has ascended to heaven except the Son so there's that

[@shojwiebelhaus1391]

@@cygnustsp Elijiah, he went up to heaven. Jesus was talking about people going to and returning from Heaven saying he was the only one to ever do that and so he was the only one with authority to truly speak on it. In order to say emphatically that "no one has gone up to heaven" you have to contradict other parts of scripture.

[@WilfredoPastera]

Hello Seth,can you pls read Genesis 2:7 (old kjv)and use your brain to analyze it very carefully.I think you’re just talking too much nonsense.

[@jamesritter5078]

I'll suggest that _you_ use _your_ brain to analyze your own post - It is nothing but mere assertion.

[@FrankLee-gq8yc]

He has a point. Adam "became a living soul". Much later on, Paul was inspired by God to expand on the contrast between a living soul and what Jesus became after his death... 1cor15:45 "So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." Jesus was the "firstfruits" of the "first resurrection", he died and was resurrected, not as a living soul, but as he is now, an immortal spirit being. The same hope Paul entertained, and now has received, as we are in Christ's "presence". Paul is now in heaven with Christ, ruling as a fellow heir of the kingdom (1cor15:23, Rom8) Does anyone ever wonder why faithful king David never ascended to heaven, yet Paul did? (Act2:34) Because Jesus was the first, John3:13. He opened the door, so to speak.

[@jamesritter5078]

From what I've read, the terms "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably in the Bible to describe the immaterial part of a person. And the witness of Scripture is that Christ did not rise "an invisible spirit creature" as JWs teach. Luke 24:39-43 refutes them.

[@theologywithseth]

I have to agree with @jamesritter5078. In fact, if anyone missed it, the nature of Christ's resurrected body was precisely the subject I dealt with in my last video! Check it out and I'd love to hear everyone's comments over there. Link below kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYjKanqqYq2fqK8

[@FrankLee-gq8yc]

@jamesritter5078 In your opinion, are Angels "invisible spirit creatures"? Surely you would say yes. Are Angels able to make themselves seen visibly? Again, yes. We have many examples. Even to the point where angels "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation," and made babies with human women before the flood. Are Angels spirits? I feel you would say yes, but cannot assume.

[@OR-TRIMPLE7]

The speaker on this video. You are a pastor? I think you are a born again. Hehehe. You know guys there are so many truth. you need to learn about the truth. You are very thankful we cannot answer your issues in personally. I'm sure you feel ashame if I wiil expose your false doctrine

[@jamesritter5078]

Your post is nothing but mere assertions. They may have felt good to type, but that's all they are - Mere assertions; nothing more.

[@universalman5861]

The words translating 'soul' can be used to refer to life a person presently has and/or his future life prospects. I am appalled that 1 Peter 3:20 was not examined in this video where it states that "eight souls were saved by water". (KJV) I am also appalled that in a video claiming to examine the biblical basis for the immortality of the soul, the Hebrew and Greek words for soul (nephesh, psyche) were not considered. Be that as it may, let's look back at the first 'analysis' of JW support for a mortal soul. At Ecclesiastes 9:5.Seth claims that this verse was written from Earth's perspective not Heaven's perspective at the 24:30 timestamp. He explains that the vantage point is "from under the sun". Fine. Unfortunately for Seth the condition of the dead is given EXTENDED TREATMENT in this chapter. Ecc 9:10 states: "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Now let's ask Seth's question : where is the "vantage point"? It is the GRAVE. BOTH verse 5 and verse 10 are speaking about the SAME EVENTUALITY. Seth says at the 24:47 timestamp that this verse is not teaching us about the afterlife, and yet verse 10 pinpoints that this is the fate of all who descend into the grave . How is this NOT the afterlife?

[@serafin1352]

Ecclesiastes must be read in context. Also note the writer wrote this based on known facts and knowledge of the day (before Christ on earth)

[@universalman5861]

@serafin1352 Yes, by all means, please EXPLAIN WHAT CONTEXT you believe I am missing. Is this man not writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

[@ravikeller9626]

@@universalman5861You seem to be “appalled” at literally everything Seth posts. So… why do you continue to come back for more? Do you just like fighting with strangers on the internet or something?

[@universalman5861]

@ravikeller9626 I am appalled that you did not state what I am appalled about. I am also appalled that you would make a post so bereft of substance.

[@RowanTasmanian]

@@universalman5861here we go again Universal. You are appalled? The academy award for overacting goes to you again. Calm down