The marriage ultimatum: it's not personal, just business

[@psychacks]

I've consulted many men who were recently given the marriage ultimatum by their girlfriends, and who were legitimately conflicted about how to proceed. In this episode, I explain how getting more of what one wants is inversely related to both men and women's use of pressure in relationships. In particular, I note that any woman who gives this ultimatum is confessing that she loves what she wants more than she loves you. It's not personal, it's just business. Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Subscribe to my newsletter: oriontarabanpsyd.com Social Media Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Orion's Theme: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaO7c62HZ613e7M Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Become a Stellar affiliate and earn a 10% commission for every membership purchased by a new student you conduct into the program: stellargre.tapfiliate.com. GRE Bites: www.youtube.com/@grebites4993 Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: kzbin.info/door/SduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXwjoin Sound mixing/editing by: valntinomusic.com Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world. #psychology #relationship #marriage

[@larryrobx]

Dr. Taraban, the master of the wicked-funny (yet still accurate) analogy: @8:25 "It's not personal if a woman decides to lateral to a different company with a more attractive compensation package. After all, it's much easier to remain loyal to one's perceived best interest. And, it's not personal if a man decides that a certain employee is better suited for a role as an independent contributor than as a corporate officer ..."

[@TheDestressed]

K⁸​@@larryrobx

[@eSKAone-]

I think the man has more to lose with sex. Men cannot decide an abortion. One unlucky intercourse and you pay for life.

[@PsychedelicChameleon]

And if a man tells the woman that desperately wants him to propose marriage that "I know it _feels_ so intensely personal to you, but Dr. Taraban says really it's just business, and you're really telling me that you love what you want from me more than you love _me_", where will that get him?

[@nataliadtut]

What a childish position. Any mentally healthy woman needs security and clarity to have a happy relationship with a man and have her love blossom for him, because she will be the one getting pregnant. This is evolutionary psychology not business. A woman must love truth of her nature above all and not be a slave to man who tries to break down her biology just because he needs an extra ego boost. If you are a guy who don’t know what he’s doing with his life, just be a decent person and let that woman go. I don’t even know what to love a guy like that for? Women love guys who know what to do with them and life. Women are on the biological clock and our eggs become worse quality with every year passed. One year is enough to decide whether you want to marry her and have a family with her or not. If a woman has to pose a marriage ultimatum, it means that there has not been any meaningful development between you for years and it is a man’s fault. It is not fair or decent to hold a woman who has hope for the near future in such a fruitless and vague relationship.

[@ksjjs0309]

Power in any relationship lies with the one who cares less

[@westdiddy4825]

and the one willing to leave

[@stevejarosz8136]

Nobody should be in a relationship when they don’t care a lot. That’s just crazy!

[@oyinloyeademola7086]

Because he or she is not heavily invested

[@henninghamann9564]

Sad but absolutely true, it doesn't even need to be a romantic relationship

[@filmkid1080]

Then why even be in a relationship if you don’t care?

[@jamesdotson1080]

She is giving an ultimatum to marry her because she is unsatisfied. Once she is married she will once again become unsatisfied with the relationship at some point. Do you really think getting married to a woman who flat out tells you she will leave you for someone else is a good plan?

[@rayrwyr]

@Nitrodamous -- As a man, I can try to understand a woman's side. Her childbearing age is limited. No woman should wait till 40 before giving birth. Ideal motherhood age for healthiest possible first child is 18-25 . If her man does not even give her the hope with specification of the expected marriage date, then she needs to break up with him right now, because she needs to find a new boyfriend, then she needs to get him to marry her and then have his children. That could be a 3-5 year process. So, she needs to give the ultimatum. Love is an emotion that clouds the judgement to see the hard reality. Women are better off postponing love until marriage. A woman's biological purpose in life is to give birth to babies using seeds from high quality men. Human species' continuation depends on that.

[@carynefuture5778]

​@@rayrwyrThanks you so much for your Understanding ! Thanks a lot. You are not a basic redpiller, you are open to both sides...

[@IreneCampos-tk2vd]

​@@rayrwyrhigh quality men nowadays can mean a trust fund brat. Basic rules for relationships dont apply anymore. a woman will not fall in love after marriage. Rarely ever happens that way.

[@rayrwyr]

@@IreneCampos-tk2vd -- two types of love: 1) passion and infatuation (hormonal tricks on the brain) 2) soft warm glow of affection, respect, and togetherness. #2 takes time to develop and works well in marriage. #1 is fleeting and unreliable but it is what brings people together initially.

[@IreneCampos-tk2vd]

@@rayrwyr how many of todays millenial women will settle for number 2? Settling is a a bad word for the feminists, and if the woman has feminists in her circle she will become unhappy with just #2.

[@Westernhospitality]

I'm in an ultimatum currently. I'm told I have until the end of the week to make a decision. We made a deal to work on some things, before we take that jump, and I don't feel that she's holding up her end of the bargain. This video came out at just the right time. Thank you Sir.

[@faulrevere8938]

Pull the cord.

[@Doberman_6773]

As Tom Cruise said in the first _Top Gun_ movie, "EJECT! EJECT! EJECT! Watch the canopy..."

[@marcint1410]

Bro, you sound like you still want to think it over, give that idea a try. Forget it, for your own good. Listen to guys, not women. Ever! Or they will f**k you royally. Women know no mercy. Believe me and hundreds, hundreds of thousand other men. She is not different. She is not, seriously. They just pretend, they just want your MEAT - money, emotions, attention, time. Oh, and now ask me about that great sex that is awaiting you after marriage 😂 You rent them, you don't buy. Peace, keep it cool.

[@Kuk0san]

If she's not holding her end of the bargain now, she won't later AFTER she gets what she wants. Pay up front or there's no deal. Also the fact you had to negotiate desire in the first place is all the red flags you need to disengage.

[@threethrushes]

If you can't say no, you can't negotiate. If you can't negotiate, you are a slave. When I was given an ultimatum, I laughed and said 'no' out of the gate.

[@WildMidwest1]

I’ve heard said “you don’t really know your wife ‘til you meet her in court.” I attest to the statement. I can never forget the venom spitting from her mouth nor the daggers protruding from her eye sockets across the courtroom. Fifteen years raising children together, and all the adventures shared over twenty years of marriage were completely absent. Only the ruthlessly selfish businesswoman remained. Younger men, let that image sink in. Marry at your own risk.

[@alexp7274]

99% of them are like this now, because they're enabled to be like this with little to no consequences

[@rdptll]

hell hath no fury.

[@douglasmaclean5836]

the latest science on female desire has proven that you cannot beat biological programming... & after 3-5 yrs, romance plummets.... 20years ??? ... we've all been kidding ourselves, except maybe the French. ... Psychologist & Primatologist Dr. Kim Wallen (EmoryU Atlanta), has shown in his Rhesus monkey compounds, that female monkeys run the show wrt every aspect of monkey life, they are the Generals in War, the head of politics, they initiate ALL Sex, they do all the Objectifying & don’t hesitate to abandon their children to chase after various objects of desire .. they're basically *RAW*. Male monkeys on the other hand, tend to live to the side of family life & are SWAPPED OUT after ~3 yrs…why ? bc female monkeys get too bored to have sex w them (~3.5yrs in the wild) ... sound familiar ? If it does, no need to ever beat yourself up. Again, just don’t forget, gym/haircut. [there is no mystery based on what science has recently uncovered] [ See Daniel Bergner's 2013 TedX talk/Book "What do women really want" where he writes about 8 yrs worth of interviews w female & male researchers & scientists on the topic of female desire, a great read.. & likely a disturbing read for most uninformed men.. sidenote, why does the french culture embrace Mistresses? ... food 4 though :) ]

[@jamesg1974a]

There’s some truth to that for sure. Men usually stay pretty even keel, but women get vicious, very vicious.

[@gregdroid1969]

Same exact experience. It's business for sure

[@capitalt348]

"Love's highest good is simply to continue to exist in the presence of a loved one. That's it. Everything else pales in comparison." ❤❤

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Love was destroyed by everyone who decided to hate the idea of love in the first place.

[@InsanitysApex]

@@phoenixtoash2396 Nah, Love Killed itself when People used it as a Shield/and on Everything i.e. "Love your hair, Love you too (not really), I Love this cheese what's it called?" Real Hatred doesn't Hate on Love; Real Hatred requires Absolute Vulnerability despite All other's Judgement, Fear, and Shame. And Expresses it anyways, even if Damned by All. Love anymore is often a Social Projection of Fear from behind Love's Assumed Impunity ("Love = Good [Absolutely False], so You can't dislike or criticize me for Loving a thing cause aren't I so pious and Good?") (No, you're just a bit of an Emotional coward too afraid of being Judged for Expressing your Authentic Feelings, so you let Love take the fall, which Only Dilutes it over Time.) Cynics didn't Destroy Love (in Fact Jealousy of other's Love usually Strengthens it's SocioEthical Value); the Self-Righteous/ness Killed Love.

[@johngalt6838]

Then if a woman loved a man no contract, and no payout, would be necessary.

[@melstarr1864]

When I first started dating my now husband, I told him that I was not interested in casually dating. It didn’t scare him away, and we have now been married 31 years. I think it is best to talk about this early before investing your heart.

[@ForrestMystic]

Very good.

[@mco4972]

Probably he didn't have options. And you are not that good looking

[@christin4915]

They had morals and values that are no longer taught and appreciated in society today. That's why Divorce is high. Women with no values, morals Divorce their husbands. If she couldn't stop from having sex before marriage why would she stop from having sex after she is married??? An addiction is an addiction married or not. Never start the addiction in the 1st place

[@sonicchaos23]

@@melstarr1864 yes this is a good approach. However it doesn't always work out perfectly even after having this talk early on. You can both say you want to seriously date (or only date to marry) but that doesn't mean things within your time in the relationship can't change that or make you second guess it. I learned my gf hid a pretty big lie from me during our relationship. She refused to get help/therapy for dealing with her mental illness. I loved her, but it all made it incredibly difficult to overlook and just say "screw it, I'm sure it'll all be fine if I just put a ring on her" even though we had that conversation early on.

[@4everfaithfulun2Him]

​@@mco4972it's people like you who hide their face that are always calling someone unattractive. Go figure.

[@YuriBoechat-ef8ts]

I'm currently dealing with the grief of a 4-year relationship with a girl I genuinely love, but which came to an end because the marriage negotiations didn't end well. Understanding these aspects helped me enormously. Thank you very much doctor!

[@johnbenedetto3096]

Id say if the negotiation ended in you not having to get married, it did end well friend. It just hurts for now, but you lost something you were never really going to keep for that much longer anyway

[@frankthetank3649]

It will make you a better man don’t sweat it

[@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488]

If you're dead set on marriage, you should discuss that looooooong before 4 years are wasted

[@scottyb.8710]

I am as well, but she never told me she wanted to be married and told others many times, with me being right near by, that what we had worked well for us and that women have many options these days that don’t involve marriage. Then she broke up with me, and one of the main reasons was because I didn’t propose. It would have been nice if she actually brought the issue to my attention before nuking the entire relationship. We talked after she ended it and I told her that I would propose if we could get ourselves back on track. But she refused to give us another chance because she felt she communicated clearly to me that she wanted to be married. I am heartbroken and entirely confused.

[@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488]

@@scottyb.8710 simple. She monkey branched. She already had somebody else picked out, and moved on. If she had her heart set on you, shed be willing to suffer not getting married. Tough, but reality. Citing lack of proposal is the story that looks good. It makes sense BECAUSE she doesnt make sense

[@JavierRamirezLive]

🔥🔥🔥”Men are in love. Women are in business.” 🔥🔥🔥

[@drich8806]

Shoutout to the coach gang!

[@BlackRedneck1]

@@drich8806You stole my thunder! 😂🙏🏽

[@anyaf.6946]

So wrong. So many men finesse woman and no one wants to talk about that. Men cheat MORE than woman

[@paulcolin9071]

I'd say lust but your point stands

[@elsagrace3893]

Looks quite the opposite to me. All of you are complaining about having lost material goods in divorce court. You are completely excluding the experience you had with the woman as though it counts for nothing. You are the ones looking at marriage purely as a business deal. You provided material goods and expected that to be your only concern. You reaped what you sowed. It could have been so much more and probably wouldn’t have ended if you had been contributing all the rest of the things that make a lovely and bonding experience for you both. Men receive testosterone brain damage in the womb and again at puberty. This makes them very bad at relating and feelings of others,

[@DrBenWiles]

I had a partner who was pushing for marriage, using all sorts of leverage. She was only after money. She is to the best of my knowledge still single and without my money.

[@ThorMaximus]

When will guys learn to stop using the word “partner”? She’s a woman, call her that.

[@jasonfanclub4267]

Same story

[@carynefuture5778]

Most women who push for marriage do it for...MARRIAGE itself and to build a family, to feel SECURE enough to have CHILDREN. Marriage and having children are more important for most women than Money

[@ThorfinnSkullsplitter-fz7ff]

Is her name Jennifer?

[@darbyohara]

Partner? Are you gay? Men call her their woman or gf or wife. Partner is a feminist gay term. She ain’t your partner

[@xieulong]

During my 20's I value relationships. Had some good, some bad, and some terrible. Now, I feel that peace and freedom are too valuable to sacrifice for a relationship.

[@SC-fk9nc]

I can relate.

[@perpetualgrin5804]

Thankfully those feelings and hormones pass.

[@susandavis903]

U can have both. Finding the right spouse who enables your choices but is your partner at the same time is gold. Communication/comprise = trust.

[@rajakghosh6602]

The best pre-nup is no marriage.

[@ucfj]

This. Prenups can be questioned in court all day

[@Doberman_6773]

Pre-nup < No-nup

[@HeyJuuude-05]

How do you propose that we raise functional children without nuclear families then?

[@ShonnMorris]

@@HeyJuuude-05 You don't. But you're asking the wrong question. the question we should be asking is, "how do we create and environment where the nuclear family is the goal?" We must first solve that before we can expect anyone to attempt a nuclear family in today's relationship and marriage climate.

[@ServantofAnubis007]

We're far past that. This is a Gynocentric society. @@HeyJuuude-05

[@Khan-rz8qi]

As soon as you sign that marriage contract, she automatically owns you and has power over your whole life. That’s the “safety” she’s looking for, a legal bind. Men inherently know deep down it was never about “love”. I can’t tell you as a man what to do, but be wise and make sure you make a proper risk-analysis assessment before proceeding.

[@ShonnMorris]

Well said. The fact that she theatens to leave if you don't marry her proves it's not about love. If she loved the guy, she wouldn't dream of leaving him and certainly wouldn't give the guy an ultimatum.

[@klaas8912]

I agree , its fucked up but game is the game and when game ends , well she’s stop playing it cause she went trough final level , not exciting anymore , thats why i love Orion he is speaking bitter truth of what it is all about on unconcious level .😊

[@phoenixtoash2396]

So untrue. Not true at all.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

I vowed never to marry unless I love that person and they love me back. So never been married. And won't. Now it's to late and my life was over when I was 23. So I never have any inclination now. Because no one did back then.

[@tn18977]

When you're married to a woman as a man you cannot oblige her to do a damn thing. But you can completely subjugate you through the court system.

[@JulzMuya]

This totally fits with my experience. I met a guy who was waaaay out of my league and I didnt expect anything from him and was happy just to hang out with such an awesome, intelligent successful man. Every moment was filled with gratitude for the amazing experience he was providing, never once did i talk about our future or where things were going etc, then lo and behold, he presented me with a ring and i was really pleasantly surprised. Now were really good friends and i am not pressuring him to set a date either. Why change what's working right?

[@RupertMcGruber]

Gentlemen, we've found the unicorn 😉

[@richien8472]

​@@RupertMcGruberShe is not a unicorn in this regard. Many women when presented with a man who is way out of their league won't push the marriage ultimatum. They're are so afraid of losing the experience that they don't push. Women treat men differently depending on status.

[@mjaybee]

Queen!!!!!

[@calltyshon]

but were you in a rush to have any children as you are simply getting older? thats often where a main push comes from.

[@TruthsSake]

@@calltyshon Even the having children part is complicated because some women truly want kids to be a mom and love kids, while other women more so do it to lock the guy down for her own long term security.

[@9Ballr]

My brother has been married for over 30 years now. He and I both hate his life.

[@vanessagonzalez5588]

Why?

[@threethrushes]

@@vanessagonzalez5588 KZbin comments are full of unexplained mysteries.

[@inpropagation]

🤣🤣

[@Blahzay-m84]

@@vanessagonzalez5588 women typically make a guys friends subordinate.

[@rushrush1209]

That's rough, but not unheard of married men.

[@FairladyS130]

This advice is gold men, the relevant generations are very fortunate to have such gold here for the listening.

[@matthewgregg3979]

This guy always makes so much sense.

[@BadUrbanKarma]

What a great analysis! Such deep insight. I'm starting to connect the dots... Women treat men like jobs... "I want a promotion or I'm quitting." It is a bold move, but one you only play when you're indifferent about the outcome or you have an awful strategy for employing bluffs.

[@mommom3172]

This was really simple for me & my husband. He wanted me to move far away from my family and support system with him to start a new career. I told him that I would love to but I couldn't do that without the security of marriage. So, he had a decision to make. I really didn't know what he would decide but I wasnt willing to move. That was 15 years ago and we've been happily married since then and I moved with him. 😊

[@mco4972]

Well, u used his want as a negotiation point

[@subhojitbhattacharya3213]

I just found your advice to be accurate based on my recent experience. A few days ago, when I was at a party, I noticed that more women seemed to approach me when I simply didn't care about them and was not nervous, unlike before when I used to worry about how girls might be perceiving me.

[@markrcca5329]

all good points. If you ultimately don't want a family and children, don't get into a relationship with a woman who ultimately wants a family and children. Obviously, if you get in a relationship with her, she will treat the relationship as a pre-amble to the marriage, family and raising children, and manipulate you, consciously or subconsciously, to get to that next stage. The typical scenario for several decades has been that the guy really likes the woman, but isn't looking to start a family; he dangles in front of her the possibility of starting a family, to keep her companionship. Meanwhile, the woman provides her companionship but dangles the possibility of ending it if she isn't granted what she ultimately wants - family and children. It's a game on both sides, and when you think about it, quite ugly or at least distasteful. How can the guy, who wants to stay a bachelor, solve this on his end? Very simple. Be very clear, from the start, that you fully intend to be a bachelor. If the woman's goals are very different, she'll stay away from you.

[@saintoflastresorts2272]

Women don't want the wedding, honeymoon and the divorce. They do not wantvthe marriage but can't have those things without it.

[@markrcca5329]

@saintoflastresorts2272 I think you meant women *want the wedding and honeymoon, but not the marriage? Hmm they can have a big party, wear the white dress and make everything look like a wedding; they can go on a long trip and call it a "honeymoon". Not a problem, no need to get married.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Men use that love thing to lure you into the trap.

[@markrcca5329]

@@phoenixtoash2396 what's the trap?

[@phoenixtoash2396]

@@markrcca5329 lmao.... Slavery owned by signed paper. Lol. Can't go anywhere, can't dress the way you want. Cant talk to anyone. Yup. That trap.

[@facelessman5362]

Orion you are really in your bag lately.. these videos are incredibly valuable

[@adrean83]

I just want to say as a man who got married (now divorced) to a pushy woman. Amen. A freaking men. Orion is 100% right about this. I wish someone had said this. I intuitively knew it was wrong. I am very happily married again with two children where I legitimately surprised my now wife with a proposal. She was never pushy, and I will never forget her reaction and how happy we both felt when I proposed. What a wonderful memory.

[@DC-ol3ws]

So men can make demands about sex /intimacy /support but woman can't make demand about a commitment lol No wonder be it Japan/South Korea or Usa or China men worldwide are whining and bitching and moaning about how women aren't giving y all the time of the day

[@jayare273]

If a woman will leave you because you won’t marry her, then she will definitely leave you for worse things like losing your career or becoming disabled therefore she is not worth marrying.

[@lijh]

Failure to "Provide & Protect" than any other of her male interest/option turn on the Hypergamy.

[@SmileyEmoji42]

You are too cynical. Consider the job analogy - Would you stay in a job where you were doing the work of the next rung up but they won't promote you? There are two sides to consider.

[@lalaa555]

Isn't that the point, though? You want a lifetime commitment, for better and for worse. Not marrying means you don't want a lifetime commitment.

[@SmileyEmoji42]

@@jth_printed_designs No. Promotion is a change of status and relationship. More pay would be like more sex - great but not analogous to getting married

[@funmilayoaina2658]

So she should so she should waste her time? Because you can't make up your mind? Make it make sense

[@Tgogators]

Hm this is spot on advice, even admits to the darker side of men psychology. Well done, Dr :) This is a good example of why it's in the best interest to get with a woman has similar values to you: You will never find someone whose match yours perfectl, it's to make sure they *do not* contradict. If her high value is marriage, and yours is not, that's a contradiction- the relationship won't survive long-term.

[@ucfj]

Good one. Matches with my own exp. Marriage terror was inversely correlated to the amount of love that was left in the relationship

[@Porkypies6m]

love is just hormones lies and manipulation

[@veritatepax]

well said!

[@cecilang9721]

Divorce attorney, female, married 30 years. And yes you are correct. Have a lot of male clients. Because I understand. But guys, let me tell you something. Don’t ever look at a woman who talks “equality” but acts like you should pay for everything. You already know why.

[@radiofreealbemuth8540]

Can you explain further? Any other lessons for men from the legal trenches?

[@kevinkurgansky4479]

Yes please expand. I’ve personally never met a woman who talks equality but doesn’t expect a man to pay more than she does for virtually everything. They see little gifts here and there or basic contributions here and there as sufficient.

[@darbyohara]

Wisdom from the trenches

[@RyanPatrickFlanagan]

Wow. Starting at the 5:50 mark to the 6:09 mark was brutal and by brutal I mean brutal honest truth. That was great Doctor!

[@DrBilly90210]

Exactly. How many people (not just women) can you think of that you'd like to be a business partner with?

[@king-nick2023]

Dude, im understanding that im definitely no longer interested in getting married. After reading all the comments and watching this guy along with coach Corey Wayne makes me understand how blessed i am to be single

[@susandavis903]

Not all women coerce men into marriage. Personally I lived with my man for 5 years before I asked him to marry me. He said yes & 23yrs later we’re still together (communication skills learned). This video is very educational. Hope you’re not alone when you’re 60+

[@profet1385]

Depends where are you from. In US from what ive seen online marriage seems big. Where I am from eastern EU it is also somewhat big, but I aim for girls that don't care. Never been into concept of marriage

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Since I was very very little I never wanted to marry anyone I didn't love. I now see there is no way I would. I'm ok with it. I'm just not looking or accepting any marriage minded types in the first place. I make it plain and straight up state, "I don't love you." ..... Which men seem to ignore. Why is that?

[@king-nick2023]

@@phoenixtoash2396 it's hard to say, if men want to marry you it's possible they see you as marriage material even if you don't see it yourself. I've heard a lot of women say "it's easier to open my legs then it is my heart" typically when women have been hurt they will shut down emotionally but still have sex to avoid emotional intimacy. Men can do this as well but deep emotional intimacy isn't on most men's agenda especially with the possibility of a women taking him to court and possibly ruining his life. It sounds like these men are not hearing a word you are saying like most men in general. Hope it all works out

[@phoenixtoash2396]

@@king-nick2023 Lol, correct as you are, I literally have no want for myself. I'm fine in this the way I am. I just hope someone else can see lessons in our conversation and be helped and turn out healthy for it. So that you for your candid and great observations and your opinion is welcomed. Thank you for the honor of hearing it.

[@MarryOnChain]

Marriage is a sacred union between two individuals, a promise of love, commitment, and partnership for life. A wedding is a celebration of this union, a joyous occasion where families and friends come together to witness and support the couple as they embark on their journey together, united in love and devotion.

[@Mellonen-Galadh]

Lol.

[@tania5012]

Well said

[@veritatepax]

in theory and as an ideal yes it is. In practice i saw and heard of not so sacred stories. Engaged women cheating, men going to thai-massages, hookers etc. before and after the marriage happens. The common denominator IMO is a feeling of business, FOMO-feelings, oportunism and often lies. Those guy friends who married, where often the ones with a strong feeling of "she is not so ideal, but I cant get any better, and I want a wife and children (some to please their mums expectations)- so I take that suboptimal woman who kind of loves me and make the deal" (Then often cheat). Those "bad guys" who dont give in to these ultimatums, are often far more romantical idealists. They often dont give in, because she does not hold up to their expectations of a woman with sufficient wife qualities (loyal, honest). Under the risky circumstances of 80% divorce through women, we have to have high standards. Otherwise - wouldnt that be just a lil bit stupid?

[@dualaccumulator]

Phew this is quite a childish way to look at marriage, it is by all means a legal contract between a man, woman, and the government. A wedding is what you described.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Lol. I would never marry someone I don't love. That is the only reason I would marry anyone.

[@PentaKillMedia]

Hands down, this channel is probably one of the best sources of advice and information about dating and relationships, that i've found so far. And I've found many.

[@btwthblood]

I always appreciate your perspective, Orion. Please consider that some of us woman want to be married because of our spiritual/religious beliefs. I know this isn't the platform for that mindset. It also makes us more respectable in certain circles.

[@emac1804]

Facts! I’ve always felt there was something more to women’s motivations and self interest and you have confirmed it through research and data time and time again. Can’t wait for your book to drop.

[@Amlux1984]

There’s still a stigma about having kids out of wedlock among the middle and upper classes, which is a reason why women want marriage if they want kids. That should have come up.

[@katieandnick4113]

Yes, that was the primary reason I gave my husband(then boyfriend) an ultimatum about marriage. We already had a child, and I felt shame over not being married. He “gave in” and we’ve been married for almost 14 years, and we get along very well.

[@dualaccumulator]

Quite an ignorant take, PLENTY of single moms out there being way too proud for there to be a stigma about it

[@FoodFreedomUSA]

There NEEDS to be a stigma against premarital sex and unwed mothers in ALL social classes.

[@christin4915]

💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞 When a girl, lives with a guy, 1st and gives him... SEX MEALS CLEANING SERVICES LAUNDRY Emotional support Companionship THE MAN IS WINNING!!!💋 IF THEY CONTINUE to live together for decades then WHEN SHE IS 60YRS, 70YRS, 80YRS, 90YRS DOES SHE GET HIS MONEY WHEN HE DIES? They are NOT married. Will he leave money for his brother and nephew? Or her? What happens when she is old? Will she be broke? Did she save enough $$$ for old age in her retirement fund? Hopefully she worked from she 23yrs-65yrs. She spent 50yrs with him and has no financial security when she is elderly? She wants marriage for her kids and her old age after he dies. That's why she wants marriage. Why buy the expensive COW (hot, sexy 23yrs old) when you can get the great tasting milk, (steamy SEX life) for free. Plus what is she gets pregnant by accident in those 30yrs by accident. Then what? Who is staying home with that son or daughter for 2 decades? Women should only give out sex after the is a ring on her finger for Commitment. If you both are not committed then separate. No more sex for him and care taking from her. No more risk for her. Relationship ONLY WORK WHEN THERE IS FULL 100% COMMITMENT THAT IS NOT BASED ON FEELINGS OR SEXUAL DESIRE

[@IfSemper]

I never understood women who give engagement/marriage ultimatums. If the guys not ready or doesn't want to marry you, he's already given his answer. Trying to make him shows shes not mature enough to have either one of their best future interests at heart. - April

[@Bluesmoke4200]

Yep. Women should ditch any guy who hasn't proposed within a year. There are too many other men out there who would love to commit to you. Men are replaceable.

[@paulcolin9071]

I didn't respond well to this once years ago 😂 She caught me off guard though

[@TheQuixoticRambler]

Great insight. Well said.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

I don't respond well to the who why don't we get married. And I'll let you pick out furniture. Eww. I run away without looking back.

[@kenzboard]

no wife happy life

[@agentm83]

haha, good line

[@jamesg1974a]

Happier than having a bad wife for sure, but I question anyone who says that being alone is truly a happy life. Unless you have another group of people who are also all single… It is a much more challenging life to be single as an adult, when everybody else is in partnerships.

[@johnbenedetto3096]

@@jamesg1974a ultimately being alone is so dependent on how you got there. Are you alone because of strong will and self esteem, navigating your life’s course with the eventual hope that the right person will come into your life, or are you alone because your bitter, resenting others for rejecting you instead of accepting your internal problems. Those who fall on the latter end will argue that being alone is ultimately a better option when it’s not, and they’re in denial of the fact that they do want connection in their life but have such low self esteems that the true inventory required to get there never happens

[@deezworld2318]

Or happy man happy life😅

[@BRIANDER100]

@@jamesg1974a they may be in partnerships now....check back with these people down the road and then you'll see where their at and if their happy

[@gullwingsyrp88]

Kudos for the GRE self study program you developed. It's admirable that you share your wisdom, not only for relationships and psychology, but help others succeed passing the GRE!

[@jwill9877]

Ultimatums are the ultimate signal of powerlessness. Call them bluffs everytime fellas

[@kevinkurgansky4479]

What do you mean by calling their bluff? What does that look like in practice. How would you call their bluff? In language

[@caeaves]

"I will not be bullied or pressured into marrying you." Then ask for anal.

[@joedidwhat]

This is by far one of my favorites. It has provided me with so much clarity about the status of my relationship and my current and continued approach to it.

[@ebbethers-jrgensen3341]

Thanks!

[@bdubs6710]

Don’t get married It’s is a huge loss for men The laws are biased against men You will lose your kids Become an indentured servant to your ex wife And any assets you had previously Not to mention the family dog And house It’s not wise to get married for men

[@mark9294]

Absolutely.

[@IMYOURMAJESTY92]

in usa for sure

[@bdubs6710]

@@IMYOURMAJESTY92 Well I’ve live all over the world been married in the Middle East, Europe, and America and have a law degree so tell me what country you suggest

[@IMYOURMAJESTY92]

@@bdubs6710 you never mentioned africa. lmao . im from ghana and none of those laws apply in most african countries .. the women are being westernized in a way because of social media but men dont lose half they shit like the western world. i live in the states now btw

[@SmileyEmoji42]

...except that the stats say that married men live longer and are happier on average. Marry the right woman.

[@alexandrodisla6285]

A chick thought That I didn’t knew she checkout out of the relationship since February. I know the signs. She will pretend to be in love with you, to take the advantages that she wants. I cut my loss short. It feels great to see the RP knowledge served me right.

[@mark9294]

Spot on.

[@luismendez3090]

Orion..thanks for this .... Can you talk or make a video about dating and relationships for people over 60 which have different needs and goals. I would appreciate a lot because I am very confused about what women in this age bracket want or what to expect of relationships at this time....keep up the great work.... thanks you are a real help to a lot of us

[@RS-xo7rd]

I'd like that, too.

[@richarddavidson8266]

Me too

[@jessedaughtry4433]

Unless y’all are loaded and actually think you can pull a good looking 45-50’s don’t even bother. Pay for some every now and then. Unless your just looking for someone to take care of you when your 80

[@Porkypies6m]

if you want love and loyalty then get a dog

[@stevejarosz8136]

Guys it’s the same

[@JayJay-oi5cz]

Great analogy! It’s really helpful. If she’s pushing for marriage than she’s not worried of losing what else you provide 😢

[@Bubbagump871]

There is no loyalty like the loyalty of another man. Women test you from the moment you gain their interest.

[@dothedewinme]

Bc you KNOW it’s real, regardless if you lose your job or not

[@ws-ss8ks]

A woman who is in your frame and considers you a 'catch' will not give you this ultimatum. Period. If the woman is high quality and worth keeping, a man can make his commitment clear and that should resolve the problem. Otherwise, the woman is simply chasing a wedding, a status checkbox, a starter husband, and/or setting you up for fleecing down the road.

[@threethrushes]

This x100.

[@DC-ol3ws]

So wait y all expect a traditional submissive woman with a low body count who will obey u all without marriage or any strong commitment Lol good luck rotting in your basement alone

[@gfcaro01]

🏆

[@chericoffman6321]

A woman should NEVER issue an ultimatum. She should quietly move on and let you be single.

[@dualaccumulator]

​@chericoffman6321 exactly, this will allow the man to find a woman that is worthy of marriage and helps him get rid of the trash I mean his ex girlfriend lol

[@karenoyama8950]

I had to watch this twice. I love how you use analogy to explain your thoughts. I wouldn’t marry any woman who gave me an ultimatum! 👍

[@Ace.0.0.0.]

Ultimatum are Hail Mary passes. It says - I don't know what else to do. I am desperate.

[@darrenturner3534]

When a woman offers an ultimatum, the relationship is over. When you get an ultimatum, you have three options: 1. You give in. Now she knows what button she can press to get whatever she wants from you. 2. You negotiate. Now she knows you are willing to negotiate with terrorists and she ups the intensity until she finds your captulation point. 3. You call her bluff. You win (for now) but now you have knowledge that she is willing to torch the relationship to get what she wants.

[@Porkypies6m]

whats the difference between a whooman ad a terrorist...you can negotiate with a terrorist

[@magnang]

It's the 3rd, no matter what she says today.. 50% or marriages end in divorce, women initiate 80% of them. In other words, 40% chance she leaves and takes a portion of your stuff with her. I say no.. it's not personal, it's just business. It's a bad deal for a man to get married in today's society with these outcomes. If you are going to present me a bad deal and expect me to sign it, you aren't a good partner.

[@yashuarazohr]

4th option: bluff has been called. Time to get another partner cause that one will burn all bridges.

[@bolt-dbtfg]

(3) Say words to the effect of "no" and continue as normal with her. If she leaves you've dodged a bullet. If years past and she has still stayed (because she perceives the value you bring to her life is too valuable to walk away from), then you might have a keeper.

[@JaySmith-pv2mw]

If you give in, there's a chance the woman will now lose respect for you because you caved in to the pressure and you are not as strong in her eyes now even though she got what she wanted from you. Sounds paradoxical? Yep!

[@Shaggytheking]

Wake up babe, new psychacks episode just dropped.

[@nickc3856]

"Don't call me babe, I'm your grandma"

[@DC-ol3ws]

He panders to lonely incels like u with his hypocritical takes.There is no babe for y all to wake up to

[@javiazar]

Noticeable lighting improvement! I love it

[@dothedewinme]

I had a girl do this to me, you know what I did? Decide not to marry her and break up if she was going to act like that. Congratulations, you played ya self. I won’t be a hostage to emotional manipulation My ACTUAL wife WAS able to show patience when I asked and did not manipulate or try to. And that’s why she became wife, amongst a whole HOST of other reasons why she is 100x better wife material.

[@susak123]

So sorry you had such experience that makes you think and speak about marriage this way. It is wrong in so many ways. I hope it will get better for you as well as your followers.

[@adamsaben3299]

Thanks! Your insight is incredible. Keep sharing the cold hard truths. Adam

[@my_call]

One of the best videos you’ve put out. Easily top three. Thank you for your service.

[@RedRed-cl7zj]

Yes. Thank you for this one. My last serious relationship, sex was the last thing on my mind. And she pushed for it sooner than I wanted. And then the pressure for marriage started about a year later. And it is exactly as you have framed it here.

[@finalyfreeworld]

The best advisor on social media, hands down!! 🙌

[@bazz8845]

Well put. Love from Kenya.

[@SuperMBARutgers2013]

Good health, FREEDOM and Peace of mind. This is the key to a good life. Marriage is handing in your bawls. I see it cower the strongest men because essentially they have put their whole life on the line, lineage, earnings.

[@taghazoutmoon5031]

All my successful coworkers at management level in banking are married. So are presidents and Jeff Bezos.

[@Tushar_Talwar_09]

​@@taghazoutmoon5031 Are you saying that these men are successful because they are married? I would say that women only marry successful men so that the severance package is bigger.

[@OperacionLider]

@@taghazoutmoon5031 jeff bezos is divorced and lost half his assets

[@taghazoutmoon5031]

@Tushar_Talwar_09 ask the successful men why they are married. They know. It's almost an unwritten rule and requirement in some places that you have to be married to make it to the upper level. It's an open secret.

[@Straga_Severa]

@@taghazoutmoon5031 So, these upper echelons blackmail men in order to get them married? Seems like a pretty good reason to NOT get married.

[@adelrosarioh]

Thanks!

[@mattnicklin446]

You have many great videos, this may be the best one yet!

[@tucobenedicto1780]

My experience with women that start being tantrummy or applying marriage pressure, is that they'll use these same tactics for EVERYTHING later on. They'll also use sex as a switch to mainly turn off and then turn on only when they want something from you.

[@TruthsSake]

My grandma was a marriage counsel for many decades. Sex being weaponizes by the woman happens in the vast majority of marriages.

[@Tubalcane_6.8]

Arguably the best content provider on the net today. Dilly Dilly, Jolly Well Done

[@theanthonyv]

All of this fits roughly 512% with my personal experience. Very insightful, thank you. I’ve learned as much about myself from listening to this as any ex-girlfriend. And that’s what makes it so valuable.

[@kayaktulsa7170]

Reminds me of my parents' situation. After dating for a while, my father--who had dated around quite a bit--turned to my mother and said, "You're the strangest woman I ever met. I could leave tomorrow and it wouldn't bother you at all." Her indifference had pulled him in, and it was that statement that triggered my mother's emotional involvement with him.

[@thorie79]

I don't get it. She didn't love your dad?

[@kayaktulsa7170]

@@thorie79 She did. They were married for 48 years, until he died. Had two fine sons together (cough, cough). But in their early days of dating, she was indifferent to him, which set her apart from other women and drew him to her.

[@MarryOnChain]

Marriage is a beautiful union between two individuals, a celebration of love and commitment. Weddings are joyous occasions filled with laughter, tears, and promises of forever. They mark the beginning of a new chapter, a journey of togetherness through life's ups and downs, creating memories that will last a lifetime.

[@valdius85]

One of the best video from you about relationship for some time 😂 Great job. Good way of thinking about the issues mentioned.

[@brettorrmusic]

Amazing. You’ve outdone yourself with this one.

[@67skullcandy]

The marriage ultimatum is the best red flag, physically run away.

[@dtd1986]

This is a fundamental incompatability. I have been through this exact situation and it was hell. I still struggle with missing my ex-girlfriend but at the end of the day I felt like she was in the driver's seat of the direction my life was heading in completely, and I had to go along with it or she would leave. I simply did not want to marry and have kids when she wanted me to. I wanted to want it, because I didn't want to lose her. Although as much as I loved her by the end of the relationship and four years living together we were already like an old couple you see at restaurants barely talking to each other, and it was painfully stale. I was not enjoying it at all anymore. I simply couldn't imagine continuing the relationship for decades on end, let alone bring marriage and kids into the equation. I knew if I gave in to her ultimatum I would be miserable, and the relationship would end in utter misery and resentment and the urge to get out, and I did not want to put my children through a divorce like I was put through when my parents divorced.

[@sparky2995]

Wow! Amazing lecture.... best explanation of heterosexual relationship dynamics I've seen. Thank you Orion!

[@somebloke5565]

Why oh why did I not realise this before I got pressured into marriage. Once married next thing she wanted as badly was divorce. Her want for both was greater than any love for me.

[@findinglela]

That's business

[@nyeteg02]

This guy is my new hero!!! His content is pure gold!

[@49Roadmaster]

You are right it is not personal it is just business. A total business win for her. Tell me another business where a person can enter into a business, not contribute to the business and when THEY decide to leave they get to take half of all the cash and prices? Getting married was the worst decision of my life. Not bitter, just a realist.

[@tmbosch-o5v]

Man, what you're saying is so true. I discovered this traits after dealing with and going through a toxic relationship. I ended up asking her for marriage, but oh boy, was I not able to sleep at night. I can say now that only God helped me get out of that relationship and I am feeling way better and at ease, not worried that in the future I will (maybe) have to have a divorce. Peace!

[@rdptll]

the insight in this video is prodigious

[@mocaman123]

Thanks!

[@amthedarknight]

Hey orion Do you do the art for your thumb nails Love the videos

[@findinglela]

Must be some talented artist

[@RupertMcGruber]

Probably AI, but they're great

[@AlexScorpionVn]

Listened to the last second of the video, thanks for putting the ad at the end! Lets keep your watch minutes at 100%.

[@dont6441]

Marriage is the greatest relationship killer in the history of the world.

[@LioTun]

It's actually the possibility of divorce that makes marriage bad.

[@lonewaer]

Not in the history of the world. Marriage in the history of the world has been a positive thing. But nowadays with the biased courts, it's probably the worst thing a man can do.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

Worse for a woman too. Both get slammed with bad stuff. Bad emotions and baggage.

[@phoenixtoash2396]

@Nitrodamous only because they pick the wrong person. Men go for the young blonde with skinny and blue eyes. Well good for you. Guys. Lol.

[@deusexmachina9776]

lol what ? people who arent married are more likely to break up. rarely do people not married spend the rest of their lives together

[@VaronPlateando]

8:36 that was a stunning way of putting all this, indeed. and afore would then even hold 'for the time (or mere turn) being'.

[@nunyabidness117]

Guys, sometimes a woman will push for marriage before you discover her flaws. Intentionally getting pregnant to secure the bag is always an option in her mind.

[@PokeMommaAndMini]

This is very very true. My husband and I dated off and on for a number of years. When I decided I was content with myself and our relationship as it was served, and stopped focusing on marriage, things shifted. Got engaged within the next year and married now.

[@steviekeas]

I always appreciate Orion’s perspective on things. Many aren’t exactly applicable to me, but I have 5 boys so I’m still concerned with these issues that aren’t. There are women who want a certain lifestyle (they want to marry the lifestyle as someone else put it), but there are also women who want to protect their hearts. As men, we have to distinguish between the two. While it’s completely sane to be frustrated with toxic American women today, it’s not healthy to just lump every woman together or to dismiss a woman instinctively understanding that at some point, if a man loves her, there will be an offer of exclusivity to their relationship. Likewise, there are men who want a certain lifestyle, but there are also men who know deep down the woman isn’t someone he’d want to be with long-term. Women are going to believe they’ll change your mind even if you’re up front with them about not seeing them as a viable long-term fit for you, but I still think it’s better to be honest upfront. I’m not going to shame a woman for wanting to protect her heart. Voicing wanting to get married after a certain amount of time is a test to see if her intuition is right, IMO. Maybe not for all women, but I do believe so for the genuine ones.Whether or not modern marriage is the proper vehicle for a woman’s need for security/proof of a man’s commitment is a different discussion. But it’s only right that one party is paranoid about whether the other party truly loves/wants them or “the thing.” If a man said “put out or get out,” many would laugh and cheer in agreement, quite hypocritically, and lacking the self-awareness to prevent the irony of his disgust or anger about the female version of this (wanting a sign of exclusive long-term commitment). At this point, the dating scene is just a perpetual cycle of wounded people wounding people.

[@azar1520]

I think the real sign to check if a man loves you is if the man sticks around after the woman gets pregnant. If the man sticks around no matter what, then the woman can be sure he does love you and your children.

[@VaronPlateando]

I'm not a believer with regard of xx.s having 'hearts' to protect. that's a nothingburger derivate. be they as 'cute' as ever - any granting of ill-founded trust (i.e. before earned) will be an in-wastement.

[@RupertMcGruber]

Sober comment!

[@MrRmcbigboss]

How does this man have so much wisdom in this domain... will it end, does he have more to give? Im actually worried that he may have a cap or something. This is amazing stuff, keep up the good work. Wish i came by you 4 years ago

[@rogersnick17]

My wealth is consistently growing 20% every year. It's changed my options and given me leverage to not compromise my morals. With that alone, any of us can find a good wife because we can pick who we want. We just have to be good men too.

[@jeanr8359]

As a woman my wealth is growing 12-15% every year…. What does that have to do with anything? There are a lot of successful women having to watch out for money grubbing controlling men. Friend warned me about men…. They either want ‘a purse or a nurse’ if you are successful. But 9 months into a marriage to a fully grown man…. With a prenup to protect both of us.

[@Wong-Jack-Man]

@@jeanr8359huge difference. Men will still spend the majority of discretionary funds while dating. For every 4th spend by a woman will pick up the 5th. Let’s not be self referential and go with how most relationships work and the norm. Once a relationship is established, as the trope goes “your money is my money and my money is my money.” Your money will stay with you. Again don’t be self referential you are the exception.

[@khanhcao3123]

​@jeanr8359 Oh, please. Most women are not savers. If you are a saver. I want to know your investment portfolio?

[@Kritikanbringer]

20 % p. a. is not sustainable. Statistically, nobody should make such returns (or gets continuously earnings rises) for longer periods of time. Otherwise, you are just an extremely lucky gambler.

[@jeanr8359]

@@khanhcao3123 7 figures…. My dear. And yes women can be savers….

[@TheEurostyler]

Hey Orion, I watch the great majority of your videos but this is the best. Just a fabulous distinction of sexes expectations. I am in my late 40s, never married and red pilled and I would never invest on a woman for marriage. I really do not see a reason to be pushed into something ( and this for both parties sake )

[@X-7-JAMES]

Thanks for keeping it REAL doctor!

[@TheQuixoticRambler]

Vital information-based on a very discerning observation. Pure Gold!

[@OctavianDunare]

I gave in to this and it cost me dearly. I wish I could explain to every young guy how bad of a decision this is. But I was young and stupid. Had to learn the hard way.

[@ITR1329]

How long were you in for?

[@OctavianDunare]

@@ITR1329 12 years.

[@rayrwyr]

@@OctavianDunare -- if you wanted children then you made the right decision of marrying her. The marriages do not last 50% of the time even when there are no ultimatum and guys are eager to marry. I married my wife and there was no pressure. I did not want kids outside marriage. She left me after 20+ years of marriage because she got bored at some point of time. This is the most common reason for divorce: women getting bored with their husbands.

[@OctavianDunare]

@@rayrwyr I didn't marry for the children, but I'm happy I got them. The thing is when she issued the ultimatum, I chose to put aside my concerns, that turned out to be very valid down the line. I could have chosen better. FOMO is bullshit.

[@kevinkurgansky4479]

This sums up the irony of women best She: begs forces cajoles pressures manipulates to get soemthing she so desperately wants She: finally gets it Also she: becomes unhappy Also she: decides to end it and leave Hilarious shocking painful and confusing Hope this saves a life or two or three

[@WisdomIsPrecious]

Wow this couldn’t be of better timing to me personally. Great video

[@chrisw8838]

Yeah I got pressured into marriage and it's true that I was unknowingly a means to an end. I was not the goal just the vehicle to get her to where she wanted. Then she promptly ruined my life. We have children and now unfortunately that requires semi regular contact with someone that is not pleasant to be around because they choose to be unpleasant. Don't get married guys, if she's that concerned with labels and legality then you are not her first choice and you will be replaced eventually.

[@GerardoDelValle.]

You are right, they just chose to be unpleasant. It's just a decision when you want things to work. Too bad men didn't read the bible , it was all along there :) , the forbidden apple, the nagging, etc.

[@gumbyjag]

Your insight is second to none. Thanks for everything.

[@Dru2maBoii]

No marriage. No kids. No cohabitation. Zero tolerance for disrespect. Protect yourself at all times. Good luck, gentlemen.

[@TTGTanner]

No kids? Thank you for eliminating your genes from the gene pool 🤝

[@soumyajitchatterjee4995]

Sounds like a pretty dull life.

[@zrunner240Z]

@@soumyajitchatterjee4995 Matrix has you hoodwinked bro

[@tizodd6]

@Dru2maBoii: I would say start with "zero tolerance for disrespect", and go from there. Meaning: *IF* there's disrespect, *THEN* she gets no marriage, no cohabitation, etc.

[@Dru2maBoii]

@@tizodd6 nope. Still exposed to her changing later and using the legal system against you. The only way to win is to not play

[@jonb5555]

This is very insightful! I agree with most of your points. I do think both people have to sooner or later show up and be vulnerable, authentic, and imperfect, say what they want, accept the answer when it comes and accept it. Playing a game of pretend will ultimately be a waste of time. Guys have more time to waste than women.

[@YamaDrahma]

Greed is endless. Never try to satisfy it.

[@12Sanguine]

As a happily married woman (with a happily married man) I am so confused by this video. "Women only become pushy about marriage because they aren't getting anything else from the relationship" - what? No, a woman who wants marriage commitment and kids, and tells her partner that, is just a normal traditional woman in love. If she expresses that wish and her partner is on a different page, it's normal to ask that question a few more times before deciding to have a painful breakup and move on to someone who wants the same thing.

[@vedicchant-e2b]

Very real and underrated comment. Wanting marriage and kids is normal as long as two people want the same things. - Single guy who will never get married here!

[@joysiburmanbelo3002]

So right, for me like a woman if i want a ultimatum for a man marry me I dont want marry he, 3 years for me and just dating people that want the same marryage and family no just some guy want sex and make your lost your time and make you belive if love them you will stay anyway we can love someone and still have limits and women need limits because man care about beauty so much and for have kids with good health

[@jaystephens2203]

I'm a man, and I'm inclined to agree with you. While I know that women such as what he describes exist, it's easy to see it being a matter of just wanting to see a full commitment from them as well. That said, it would appear that his contention is that women would generally be okay with being in a relationship while remaining unmarried if they are happy with him, which is a modern, though common, concept.

[@AndrewTheVikings]

Here’s a thing, if a woman really wants husband, family and children, here are few things. It’s not if she can live with him, it’s if she cannot live without him, if he were proposed and she is unsure then he isn’t a right man for her. Kindness trumps intelligence, it doesn’t matter how intelligent he is, if he’s not nice then it won’t matter, she needs a husband that likes her and is kind to her. And the most important thing in his life is her. I hope this helps you understanding things better.

[@AndrewTheVikings]

@@vedicchant-e2bhow often do we see that though?

[@jarvisthrasher22]

Well, we can't keep saying men are more logical if they know the risks and still marry. The game is the game and if you bend the knee to her ultimatum, you forfeited your masculinity. How is she going to trust and follow you, if you caved to her on an ultimatum?!?!?!

[@veritatepax]

agree to a degree only. The logical part of the giving in despite the risk and our best interests is the fact, that many just want: 1) to keep that woman; 2) do kind of want to marry one day anyways; 3)it's a unnecessary burden, but still it often must be overcome to get the peace of being settled down with the prospect of children with a woman he loves. 4) some are just dumb, desperate, have fomo or cant be alone - and of course are fearful of not getting any better.

[@samv9425]

It is maddening how accurate you. It's like I'm an open book. Jesus.

[@goldenremnant2610]

4:28 - “To want is to lack” That’s my quotable takeaway for the day. Thank you, sir.

[@MrSvanevik]

Takk!