Never meet halfway: understanding what a date is

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My definition of a date is that it's connection plus sexual possibility. You need both for a date to be a date. Otherwise, you're dealing with a hookup (on the one hand) or an interview (on the other). And this is why the date is God's perfect creation: when it does well, both parties get what they want. As a result, it's never a good idea to meet halfway on a date, as it severely limits the logistical reality of the sexual possibility. This also sets up the likelihood that the relationship will prioritize the woman's interests and preferences over the man's. I discuss more in this episode.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #dating #relationship

[@psychacks]

My definition of a date is that it's connection plus sexual possibility. You need both for a date to be a date. Otherwise, you're dealing with a hookup (on the one hand) or an interview (on the other). And this is why the date is God's perfect creation: when it does well, both parties get what they want. As a result, it's never a good idea to meet halfway on a date, as it severely limits the logistical reality of the sexual possibility. This also sets up the likelihood that the relationship will prioritize the woman's interests and preferences over the man's. I discuss more in this episode. Pre-order my book: amzn.to/3UlsTsY Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Subscribe to my newsletter: oriontarabanpsyd.com Social Media Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Orion's Theme: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaO7c62HZ613e7M Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Become a Stellar affiliate and earn a 10% commission for every membership purchased by a new student you conduct into the program: stellargre.tapfiliate.com. GRE Bites: www.youtube.com/@grebites4993 Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: kzbin.info/door/SduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXwjoin Sound mixing/editing by: valntinomusic.com Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world. #psychology #dating #relationship

[@kurtvanluven9351]

How I managed ANY success with women (when I was young & mostly by accident) and being so clueless? It is staggering. The great news Is I can try all new, correct methods at age 61 and if I succeed nobody need know how late of a start I got. Your clarity of expression I admire. Thank you.

[@aniharutyunyan]

such dating techniques only attract promiscuous woman. if that what you are looking for :)

[@aniharutyunyan]

With such a dating technique, you will only attract promiscuous woman. If that's what you're looking for ;)

[@lanji7946]

The Dr is always cooking 🔥🔥...so most of us have been going for interviews thinking we on a date 😭

[@PsychedelicChameleon]

I'm an older man that has rarely dated. I've never had any sexual activity on a first or second date, and usually that's because the women made it clear ahead of time in some way that sex was "off the table" and that expressing too much interest in that would disqualify me from further dating opportunities with them. You can read more in my comment below.

[@srdorseyauctioneering328]

Show up for the date in your motorhome!

[@chrispotempa2900]

Or the 70s Chevy van with the flame paint job, tinted bubble windows and shaggggggg carpeting :)

[@yourbachelor]

😂

[@Focusembedded]

@@chrispotempa2900 A buddy of mine in high school in the early 1980's had one of those. Came complete with leopard print interior, disco lighting, a futon, and a beanbag chair. He called it the "Rassle Castle."

[@beastmode4eva458]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@andrewdube4250]

"He cold!"

[@alex_tucker]

When I meet a woman online a quick coffee meetup is what I always suggest, but I don't consider it a date. Without meeting in person you can waste a lot of time getting interested in the version of themselves they present online. It is, as you suggest, an interview to determine whether dating is a good idea. The coffee meetup can turn into a date if it goes well, but it provides an easy, quick exit if you're not interested. edit: also, a casual coffee meetup is a good way to screen for ghosters. If we're going to meet for coffee somewhere nearby and they ghost, it's a lot less annoying than if I planned a whole date.

[@lullemans72]

if you're meeting women on dating apps, it can be a good idea to have a phone call with them prior to decide to meet them. i did this quite a lot on bumble and it worked well to gauge their vibe and interest.

[@TheHMSBros]

These are some good suggestions, thanks 👍

[@M0viLover]

@@lullemans72 Yup. When I was dating, I would: 2/3 EMs to get a phone #; talk on the phone - no red flags, set up a coffee / drink date; if after meeting in person, where was interest on both sides - THEN set up an actual date. Third date would be dinner at my place, Fri / Sat night, with the possibility of a late night / sleepover.

[@lullemans72]

@@M0viLover sounds like you knew what you were doing. in my case, if after the phone call i felt like it was good, i would invite over for a coffee, but i would typically always bounce back to my place right after for a smash. sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, and at other times i would skip coffee entirely and just bounce directly to my place if i knew they were down.

[@AceJavier]

exactly, time and $$$ saver!

[@MAMP]

First date coffee is fine because you may not like her anyways. 2nd date do what Orion says.

[@jackdeniston6150]

Not a date

[@MAMP]

@@jackdeniston6150 Well, either way its a great chance to get in your car and drive away if she sucks.

[@assiduous_yogi]

@@MAMP nah man if she sucks it's all good

[@Harvest133]

​@@jackdeniston6150 then most "dates" are expensive wastes of time. At least coffee is cheap.

[@thorie79]

There's a high chance she'll say "i didn't feel a spark with him" and there's no second date. I've never gotten horny at a coffee shop. I've done many job interviews (contract work) at coffee shops. I prefer cheap candlelight Italian dinners. Ask her if there's anything she can't eat, and then order for her so you pick some cheap items. If she says she wants to order something, respond with "oh, you want to split the bill?" 😁

[@monicamccready3921]

This reminds of what my friend's mom told her when she was young and dating. She said, "Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place to have it."

[@brutal1962]

@@monicamccready3921 CLEAR THE TABLE!!!

[@kingsirdaboss1995]

These days, an "interview" SHOULD preface a "date" and especially courting. You'd be surprised how much you NEED to know about someone simply by having an in depth conversation and asking the right questions, without the distraction of "expections". It's an investment of TIME, which is more valuable than money. Some guys actually want to LIKE and have interest in a woman HE CHOOSES to lay down with. While others enjoy scouting for a willing participant who's just another masturbatory experience...to each his own.

[@FinalWaveFeminism]

No it shouldn't, especially not for men.

[@elsa_nyc]

Very well said.

[@donnieraibert2970]

Agreed - very well said. A lot of women out there I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole.

[@FinalWaveFeminism]

Totally disagree

[@mythocrat]

Yeah yeah, you have the experience of women talking about deep topics in first date right?

[@nunyabidness117]

My first date go-to is the gun range. It is a great way to bring her into your frame. It is fun, something dangerous you have embraced and mastered, gives off the vibe you are willing and able to protect her, and chances are it will be the first time she has ever fired a gun. You get to teach her to do something dangerous safely.

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

7:25 such an important point. It is better to know ASAP if the woman you are dealing with gets Aggressive, Bossy, Combative, and Disagreeable (ABCD) when things don't go her way. If she goes ABCD when you say "no" or disappoint her, expect her to take your money, house and kids in divorce. ABCD women are divorce material. And if you ignore the red flags, guess what 9:27

[@RShaun]

I like the ABCD and I will probably steal it, but how would you work in the ambushers that agree superficially and try to coerce over time? E for Emotional Terrorism?

[@marriagecausesdivorce7540]

@@RShaun if you want a relationship you have to accept the whole thing is a risk and can massively back fire. If you want a relationship you have to make your best guess and hope it works out for the next 50 years. All you can do is de-risk, e.g. not get married, or get married with a prenup, or only have 1 kid to minimize child support payments, etc.

[@georgedang449]

​@@marriagecausesdivorce7540 Willingness of your wife to divorce/cheat is a separate factor to consider. There are some very agreeable pushovers who lost their first time with some loser because he talked her into it, who will again commit adultery easily after marriage for the same reason. Marriage material is traditional woman who's obedient to her husband, but not other men. My wife is a first generation Chinese immigrant and was a virgin until we married. She cooks, cleans, does most of the childcare for our son, puts in a ton of work into my business. She's obedient to me and her father, not even so much her mother.

[@peterpalashevky7423]

ABCD😅😅😅 BEAUTIFUL !!

[@Jrocket12345]

I found this to be true looking back on a 28 year marriage and 32 years together. She was disagreeable from the start. And yes, she got 1/2 million, the house and alienated me from my grown children in the divorce. All young men, please pay attention and learn.

[@albertostang]

I tend to agree with what I see on this channel. This video makes sense as usual, but I must say, now in my 40s and married, If I were ever to divorce and start dating again. I would go for a coffee on the first date and see if I am really interested in having sex with her at all. If she's worth it, then I would propose dates with mating possibility. The reason being, as men, we will always want to get laid, but rushing into sex with the wrong women is generally a big mistake and it can easily entangle men in toxic relationships from the get go. Specially if the sex is good. So I would say, It is important to protect ourselves from our own desires too.

[@melvilleasha]

Well said.

[@ConstantinDumitru]

And also if you suggest her your place as 1st date, it could make her think you just want some fun - unless she's also in to that, I guess.

[@phillipjamison4939]

I agree completely. I was going to comment this. I personally prefer to see if the woman is worth the hassle first and if she is looking to simply be entertained. Coffee is perfect and affordable.

[@mdhazeldine]

Exactly. I am 42, seperated (soon to be divorced). When he said a coffee date is an interview, I thought "Good! I will be the interviewer, as I'm the one hiring!"

[@alexandrodl1371]

@@ConstantinDumitru Suggesting your place for the 1st date?! Bruh. Just ask her for sex at that point... Because she will obviously know you're super thirsty

[@ronj9448]

First Time Meeting Someone: I call that a "Meet and Greet". You only date someone you know - even a first date. And I bought memberships to a few local museums. Having them join as my guest is the offer. Lots of things to talk about if she doesn't want to talk about her.

[@LisaFenton-h7f]

Great date idea! (from a woman)

[@KukulyJazz]

But I mean. the reason for this "meet and greet" is still about finding out the potential for a romantic/sexual relationship. So, by his definition, this "meet and greet" would already be considered a date! Simply, unless you are meeting with some reason other than to get to know each other more intimately, meeting up to get to know someone more with the intention of assessing if they would be a good romantic/sexual partner is to me already a date.

[@ronj9448]

@@KukulyJazz No, you miss the point. You are meeting to find out who you are really meeting. Would you go to $300 dinner with someone you never physically met from the internet - even if it was dutch?

[@KukulyJazz]

@@ronj9448No, I agree that you want the first date to be low key, all I’m saying is that to me a “date” is meeting up to get to know if you like someone for more than friends in the near future. If you are meeting with someone for this reason that means they are not absolute strangers, you picked them for a reason and that reason is probably that you found them attractive. If you find someone attractive and want to get to know them to see if you could develop something romantic THAT’S A DATE.

[@ronj9448]

@@KukulyJazz You're back? Are you 12? Listen. Women are full of scams. "Oh lets meet over at Morton's or the 4 Seasons for dinner!" Yeah right. I'm not getting stuck with the bill of someone I never met before. And that happens all the time. So nobody will suggest something outlandish if you tell them "Lets do a meet and greet" it will be fun. It sets a tone and expectation. Otherwise it is all over the place. You're playing with logic that will do you no damn good in dating.

[@kirstinmeyer3297]

Spot on! I am tired of men who ask where you want to meet and then are upset when they don't get what they hoped for. It's boring and frustrating for the woman, too! Greetings from Germany!

[@ralphneptune9881]

I believe in not dating at all while treating women in the context of non-dating with kindness and respect. Perfect equilibrium. I enjoy peace and despite drama. Seem that singleness is my destiny and I embrace it.

[@SuperReyand]

So you order yourself an escort?!

[@bloodymirpoutin3825]

Whatta' coward

[@chriswiebers1135]

Men, please understand the concept of holding her hand when you walk back to your car, the convo while driving home, then being able to walk her to her door and kiss her goodnight. Kissing is also a sexual interaction. You don’t have to sleep with her perse. Also vet her properly before you invest your resources.🎉

[@Susan-fg3nv]

Women ride in cars with strangers? Haven't you seen the Uber movie? Well... Men are dating women for sex .. I guess a car ride isn't so far fetched

[@alpex92]

Well, depends on your goals. It may work if having a sex is the only thing you are interested in, otherwise sleeping with a person you know for few hours max is a terrible idea. 1. You may discover a lot of incompatibilities later, but you are already feeing bonded, especially if the sex was really good, and getting out of this could be quite painful 2. Easy come - easy go, if the girl is easy on sex for a first date with you, there’s a high chance that she would do the same with others, potentially cheating 3. it may feel pushy and make her thinking that the only thing you here for is sex, again Personally, I never expect or facilitate anything on first date, I just meet to know a person better. And then if everything seems positive - start moving further by small steps, checking her reaction and adjusting the behaviour accordingly. If the girl wants you - she would make it happen, anyway. Trying to push or speed up things can spoil what had a good potential long-term.

[@LisaFenton-h7f]

FINALLY! a man who gets it! I'm a woman who has seen so FEW men behave the way you do when it comes to dating. Your last sentence is right on: men I liked and was attracted to DID "try to speed up things ...and it DID "spoil what god potential long term".

[@solangesolar4676]

Agree 100%!

[@missyelious]

💯

[@hockeymikey]

Bingo. Great comment and analysis overall. It's easy to get locked into someone physically so it's a pitfall that should be avoided until you think there is a connection and want to take that next step. Otherwise, all of this is just hooking up basically with extra steps (and I don't recommend those casual relationships).

[@dgillies5420]

If she's not serious (just wants to exploit her sexual availability for a free meal) are you interested at all? Nope. Note that he didn't say you had to consummate the date with sex, merely, a woman's interest in having a date where sex is on the table is a litmus test. If she's not that into you, you should probably invest your time in someone else who is actually interested in you.

[@Longties91719]

I usually agree with Orion’s episodes but not this one. The coffee date is usually a first-date testing strategy for both sides to see if they should proceed with the courtship. The stake is small for the guy (buying 2 cups of coffee) and the women will most likely not agree to go home with a person she has just met. The halfway arrangement works fine for the first date or it doesn’t even matter as long as the coffee shop is decent. As you go on the 2nd date and so on, you will most likely doing other activities besides just meeting at a coffee shop, then suggesting coming over will be more natural

[@cwoherem]

He never said sex should happen on the first date, you got that impression. What youre saying is more or less the same thing Orion is saying.

[@armandoguerra7658]

“Meet me halfway”, one of the most liked song of the black eyed peas, I’ve understood over the years, that if I was made for loving you and you were made for loving me, meeting me halfway, is the minimum to start off

[@avinashprasadfilms]

The comments are making some very good (and obvious) counter arguments. Coffee is fine for a first.

[@23DanielVincent]

I don't have a problem suggesting a coffee date on the first meeting because women nowadays will go on dates for free food while having no genuine interest in a guy. If she balked at this, then I would keep it pushing.

[@Insight-music]

Right, why spend 💯 on someone you aren’t sure about

[@23DanielVincent]

@Insight-music Exactly. If she has genuine interest in you, then she'll be okay with it.

[@GoogleUser-td1ic]

You'll be just looking at a piece of art while having coffee. Is this habitual of you? Gotta get out of that mode. Watch this video again.

[@juandavidtabares9446]

​@@GoogleUser-td1icdon't care. I won't spend resources in someone that would ghost me next day cus she just wanted dinner. If she's worth the time and energy, a coffee date as a first date would be great for her. I won't allow myself to be used like that, we already make enough effort to approach, plan the date, go to her place and take her to the date, which is what's expected by society

[@23DanielVincent]

@@GoogleUser-td1ic Who said anything about looking at art? Are you even a real person?

[@alanarcher]

I love how our Doctor of Love always defines his terms with objectivity and clarity.

[@elsa_nyc]

Coffee isn't an interview, it is a chemistry check.

[@GUITARTIME2024]

Somewhat, but chemistry is tough to judge on a 1st date. The "false click" happens, as does the "false non click".

[@Richard_AKL]

I've been doing it wrong the whole time! I've been interviewing at the first date and then only if they match on paper do I proceed. I figure then girls are probably checking for chemistry first then will look for the technical fit.

[@segueoyuri]

= an interview. That's literally what an interview is, a check for stuff

[@janosd4nuke]

Yeah, that's basically just semantics. Wording is likely more dry in language to drive home a point. To me this doesn't even come off as a red flag... just deeper understanding of WHY. If the man is gunning for sex on first date, near to his place is better for the reasons mentioned in the vid. And even if he isn't there is value in checking the woman's character, how much effort she is willing to put in, how she reacts when not everything is on her terms. And a public venue near yourself is nice. Going the long route to escort her can show effort, give her a sense of safety. Examples around you to reference the neighborhood you live in can show your connection to the place you live around, reveal your character and establish connection with her. Now if you are comfortable with no sex on the 1st date. Maybe you want to date someone with stricter morals and willing to play the long game. Then accepting the middle locale is perfect. Shows your restraint, values her decision and gives her additional feeling of safety and respect => again better connection. But agreeing to middle locale just for at least she is willing to meet that way... NO. That's pure self-sabotage. Shows weakness of character and wasting everyone's time on false hopes. Grow a pair and cut that nonsense out.

[@idesel]

Without the sexual possibility it is an interview from the man's perspective, even if he doesn't think so. Unless he's gay he went on that date for the prospect of a sexual relationship.

[@dirtyace1668]

I love Orion's videos and agree with most of his thinking but I find it funny that he brings up meeting for coffee as going half way on a date because my experiences have been very much the opposite. For me, sexual encounters are much more frequent and consistent when the date is as free of pressure as possible. By this I mean, the whole coffee thing is just extremely easy to do. No real planning of any kind required. Just pick a coffee spot and that's it. No pressure, which means a much more relaxed atmosphere for both myself and my date, and that leads to you know what, a lot easier and more natural, again, because there's so much less pressure.

[@madness5693]

The father figure we needed

[@tlz8884]

Amen

[@josephoduor2358]

Getting this wisdom for free, what a time to be alive.

[@LawrenceJenner]

Amen

[@marcusmcgraw3519]

@@josephoduor2358he’s tricking you guys into playing a game that favors the woman. He’s keeping you in a loop of watching his content to enrich his pockets, not to help men. He is misleading you to a problem and framing it as a solution. His words may sound nice, but examine the motive for his actions rather than the action in a vacuum

[@hanshans9902]

Talking you with buying Milk and comes Home togheter xd

[@musclehead1992]

I got your book and it’s given me an existential crisis in a good way. I love your book!

[@jhglaze]

I never heard the process of dating explained so clearly. I wish I had learned this earlier in life.

[@fukugoogle8639]

The best first date is putt putt/mini golf. You can find out if she is playful. You can ramp up chemistry through competition and teasing. You can check her out from all angles without falling for any potential thirst traps. Usually, there are other couples playing which can affirm you are a couple doing fun things. Bonus it’s cheap!

[@KK-sg5gl]

So women that will sleep with men on the first date isn’t a red flag? What you don’t know is that she had three “first dates” before yours, that very same week. Thanks but no thanks.

[@andyfranks1575]

YES! My thoughts exactly! It bothers me to no end that red-pills never address this. Vetting the girl is so much more important than getting laid. Sleeping with a girl on the first date should only be a shit-test. You can come up with some "reason" to go back to your place, and she's supposed to politely turn it down.

[@juhel5531]

I've met a ton of women that would sleep with you in the first date. They're high flying lawyers, doctors, accountants or rich scions of established families. It's considered classy when you're that wealthy AND high class. They treat relationships like vacations from their careers and will interview you about your future career trajectory. I've been denied by every single one as a serious relationship prospect but I don't hold it against them since I'm not one of them. I'm just a pleb and can't honsetly fund a lifestyle that can keep up with them.

[@idesel]

That isn't a red flag. The same woman who won't sleep with you on the first date will do it with someone else. It largely depends on how she feels about you.

[@calibre_au6183]

Well you could filter them out and get lucky in one go.

[@KK-sg5gl]

@@calibre_au6183for sure

[@SheenaRea]

There is no way, in today's day and age, where people should be "hooking up" that quickly. Caution.

[@Senorzilchnzero]

Thank you.

[@FinalWaveFeminism]

It's MOSTLY women doing this though, and constantly/consistently. They're basically using tinder as Uber for D. They do this at every age (even more so when older) ESPECIALLY the ones that say no hookups.

[@eyeheartsushi2212]

Unfortunately it’s become rather common

[@jimlong2469]

Never should have been. When did "professionals" start giving such atrocious "advice"???

[@SheenaRea]

@@jimlong2469 That's what I wonder! 👍

[@FirstLast-cd6vv]

I'm glad I did all my dating during my youth because the current dating world is literal sh!t.

[@yemisiaderuku2902]

@@FirstLast-cd6vv Absolutely And the knowledge of the current dating world will help us understand and guide the youth I suppose Watching from Nigeria 🇳🇬

[@w60496]

Thanks........ Does this apply in situations where she's abroad?

[@screentake01]

So you want a woman to travel alone to meet some guy she hardly knows and it's not safe for a woman to travel alone in the evening. She keeps the date not too far from her for safety reasons.

[@cathtaylor8878]

Yes. And then sleep with him. Great advice - if you’re not looking for a long term relationship.

[@gmoneymac23]

I thought women were "strong and independent"? Now, they can't travel alone?

[@sterneprinzessin]

Exactly - really disappointing BS advice, sounds like coming straight from the red pill bible. Men, that's not how to build real relationships and trust with women.

[@ianstambaugh7535]

This is guy is Andrew Tate dressed up in faux intellectual language.

[@chica212]

What intellectual language are you referring to? The history and Roman Empire references? I’m in Graduate school for Mental Health Counseling and we use empirical studies and peer reviewed articles not the Roman Empire 😂😅

[@PanteraRossa]

Long are the golden days when your HS sweetheart would wanna play hooky and go back to her place while her parents weren't home.

[@westbdeon]

Hold on there bud. People are moving in back with parents nowadays. There are plenty of adults ducking their parents to get it on in bed. Whether or not their HS sweetheart depends on some imagination.

[@RH-td7vc]

Such behavior is exactly the kind of promiscuity that men claim disgusts them. You'll hate on girls who give up the kitty for free or low effort but expect it from the girl you're interested in

[@Senorzilchnzero]

They still play hookies. They just do it in middle school and with many many boys. I've seen a porn star who talked about guys asking her for anal in middle school (or freshmen year in hs, cant remember, either way its bad)

[@mat7083]

Long are the golden days when HS pregnancy was so high and everyone wanted to lose their virginity by 15

[@Johnny-Cage]

Exactly. Now HS boys are just hooking up with their teachers

[@elinope4745]

I'll remember the screening thing.

[@7184610369]

This is good stuff. I wish I knew this 15 years earlier.

[@Joe_from_Li]

Me too! It’s probably well supported in psychological literature and studies etc but it also makes complete logical sense.

[@yeticusrex1661]

But now you know it. Use it.

[@MiMysmelfandI]

Which is why society didn’t want you to find out for the last 15 years.

[@Antonywhitewow]

me too. all my life i've only doing 'interviews' and some onses. now i'm 30, alone and gonna kms this year. oh, what a beautiful life.

[@DrAcula-vl3qc]

What do you know about chemistry? 😂

[@analytics8055]

Thanks!

[@Safak-hm9me]

Orion. I've been following you since you had 100 k followers and watched over 100 videos for sure. I must ask this question as you're the teacher here: what's your relationship status and why is it the way it is?

[@msSerene55]

His relationship status is what it is because he is too afraid of a woman thinking her interests and preferences are taken into account.

[@chica212]

Loving this for men growing a spine and asking the same questions they ask single women who come online to give toxic dating advice! Go guys 💕

[@anjunatuna]

He's in the peak of his SMV so likely enjoying his optionality. Honestly don't blame him if he never settles. Marriage industry in shambles.

[@Patricia-dd6ss]

Thanks!

[@MurderCube]

Orion would you really take a woman seriously if she's giving it up on the first date? I feel like it's counterproductive to want that.

[@MrHDProd]

He is not the type of man woman sleep on the first date with

[@Reflectionmaterial]

Super strange how men do not take women seriously who sleep with them

[@stevegwizzle3560]

Believe it or not, you may actually be one of the FEW men, and I mean very FEW who she will sleep with on the first day, only because she sees you as an amazing catch that she doesn't want to lose out on. Yes this actually happens

[@illuminatinglight5486]

I honestly don’t mind the, “interview” first date. I’m not looking to have sex on a first date anyway. I thought the date was to feel each other out 🤷‍♂️

[@saranew1190]

@@illuminatinglight5486 I think his advice is more to optimise the chances of getting laid on first date for men rather than finding their soulmate... It should be started more clearly as it's not what all men care about. If I was a man looking for something serious, the first screening would be coffee to check if she's not a psycho and if she's interesting enough..

[@kjphillipsnz]

Thanks

[@ALForb]

Every video I watch on dating makes me glad I didn't have to play this game to meet my wife. Find community. Build a network. Get to know people. This includes forming plutonic relationships with women. Control your impulses and only go when there's a clear green light (don't convince yourself, wait for her to convince you). It's possible to have everything pretty well locked in by the time you go on a "date", rendering the information in videos like this irrelevant to your situation.

[@yar3333]

I agree, plutonic relationships are better than saturnic ones.

[@limegrassy]

@@ALForb "platonic" hence the joke comment "saturnic" lol

[@marwasalama4228]

The "sexual opportunity" cost on a women emotionally is not the same as the cost of the "connection" on the man, not a fair equality. Sleeping around for women is not good for their emotional wellbeing. If a man fancies a woman he would be respectful, confident and considerate to allow her to reach a decent level of trust and safety first. Women indeed have a lot of skin in the game but you choose not to consider such aspects.

[@jimlong2469]

VERY poor "advice" all the way around. Bad for men, bad for women.

[@marwasalama4228]

@@jimlong2469 Totally agree

[@cwoherem]

The question is simply how long should the 'trust and safety' last for, and what else does she give in return while he takes her out to multiple dates, because id be flabagasted if you said Nothing, because that would then breed entitlement from you. Regardless, dating is still built upon the exchange of resources( value ) and because women naturally have the advantage( because theyre born with value which is their beauty making men to chase women), can easily take advantage of the mans generosity. I believe Orion is trying to liik at things from fair position.

[@eileentrees5262]

I am a widow, and thank you for what you have said. I will never trust another man again.

[@JunkanooImmersionScience]

Kml. I see why your channel thrives. You say the most practical things in the most inflammatory way.

[@DrNigel-Comedy]

Judging by some of the comments, people are misunderstanding the idea of sexual possibility. If I'm going out with my friends, male or female, there is no possibility of sex , so I am not expected to pay for them. Since I know I will be seeing my friends again, sometimes I will treat them knowing that they will reciprocate in the future. When I am meeting a woman to determine if we are compatible, we are both trying to to decide if we see the possibility of an intimate relationship with this other person in the future. Dr. Taraban is not saying that there should be sex on the first date but if either person has decided there is no possibility of sex in the future, then it wasn't a date. If a woman decides on that first meeting that she likes me "but not in that way" then this meeting will likely not lead to us seeing each other again for our actual first date. While it is possible that this new woman and I could choose to invest time with each other to build a new friendship, in that case I would not be expected to pay. It is not reasonable to expect me to invest a lot of time and money when there is no possibility of physical intimacy in the future. Personally I like to think of myself as a casting director trying to find a woman for a key role in my life. That first meeting with someone new is like an audition. As I'm sure Orion knows from his past dramatic experiences, actors and actresses do not get paid for auditioning, they only get compensated if they are chosen for the role. The leading role I'm casting for requires physical intimacy, not during the audition, only after you've accepted the role I'm offering you in my life.

[@MissOJAY]

I hear u but his choice is words is leaning on the understanding most of us are processing. He then goes on to say he practises this and if a woman is reluctant to meet elsewhere but halfway, she's the problem. 😅come on now

[@cwoherem]

@@MissOJAY No you just took it that way and let your emotions cloud your judgement. Orion made sure to explain himself reasonably and maintain fairness, I mean what else could you want? I believe the real reason some people, particularly women, dont like whats being stated is because it puts them in a significant disadvantage in the date, and that is the inability to reap the benefits of the mans generosity without resiprocrating anything, and when I say reciprocate I dont mean just sex, there are other ways to reciprocate thats less than sex and some women are unwilling to do those things as well.

[@mnlalx6512]

AMAZING!! From my experience I was basically doing what mentioned and it felt like fresh air hearing you dissecting this. THANKS ❤

[@franco1240]

If you go for a coffee you know that sex is not possible but you can still work in the sexual tension and run a personality check. I have done that all my life and ive been always successful AF. Maybe in the US people is built differently but i dont really think so. Actually also worked for me in the US several times as well

[@BrianMolstad]

Prescription for one time hook-ups.

[@chrisblack3952]

Works like a treat I do this often. Women will drive 45 minutes to restaurants near my house if they are really interested for a first date.

[@bryanutility9609]

Only thing near my house is a chipotle 😂

[@yeticusrex1661]

@@bryanutility9609 Afternoon picnic (wine, cheese, crackers, etc.) in a park near your house with a boardgame, and when the sun starts setting, suggest going to your place to play Twister in the jacuzzi, or something of the sort.

[@bryanutility9609]

@@yeticusrex1661 yea been pushing the hot tub seduction this summer 👏☀️ 🤣. Only problem … I’ve failed to patch the hole. Never do mention it’s an inflatable hot tub LMAO.

[@alexandrodl1371]

@@bryanutility9609 Are you serious? You have a spa and you have trouble closing the deal ? When I had mine, my success rate was like 80% at least. Try this: Try finding a moment to humble brag about your feet massage skills ( Also, try having said skills but its motsly optionnal), then you offer one in the spa. Wow, these calves seems pretty tense, too. Obviously read her and go up as slowly has possible while having conversation and just stall at the junction of the thigh and hip. Chances are you will hear her moan 'stop playing with me please' and ' omg you're so cruel' after a while because she cant take it anymore. That finger of yours will be sliding in like a hot knife in butter after that 😅

[@bryanutility9609]

@@alexandrodl1371 Not bad! Somehow I’m able to get them to show up without swimwear & get in naked. Makes all the seduction jokes even funnier. “Let’s just get in with our underwear nothing has to happen.” But like I said, it has a hole & just haven’t had time to patch it. I know it’s lame, but last summer it was slowly deflating in real time & just kinda killed the mood in that sense. 🤣

[@Super--Star]

I really love your point of view and reality, like really! I hate watching your eyes dart across the screen when you’re reading from your script. If you can do something about this, rock on.

[@philaman1972]

The first "screening" -- if you will -- is just that: do you look like your photos, what do you sound like, can you hold a conversation, etc. IMHO, dating today has too many expectations and pressures -- akin to a prospective business relationship; ideally, it should be fun and an opportunity to see if you have things in common with one another.

[@exe16]

This video opened my eyes to a big mistake I was doing. Thank you.

[@hisato1998]

If you dont make sex for sport and you want long lasting relationship the early sex not help you my little fellas and Dr Orion so be patient and trust the proces to find your gem 💎

[@aniharutyunyan]

Dr Orion thinks all men are like him. desperate about sex. rejected many times by women. sexualizing women. and this gives rise to an advice like that. very sad for his followers.

[@NicoSmets]

The precision and density of your videos are a joy.

[@Tiger74147]

What's throwing me off here is the emphasis on creating "an opportunity for a sexual encounter", but this sounds like first date context. I don't WANT her to be putting out on first dates, nor do I want to. Why would anyone want this unless they're just looking for hookups?

[@Xenozillex]

I'm assuming you are looking for something more long term and don't 'want' her to put out because that would mean she is pro misses. However, you would *want* to at least gauge her sexual attraction to you by at least having it on the table. Also, what better way to find out if she is pro than by seducing her? You have to consider that just because she doesn't put out for you sooner, doesn't mean she hasn't put out for less with other men before you.

[@agcouper]

As an introvert, I completely agree with you. Unless I’ve known the girl for a while, first date for me is for gathering observations: I ask question, try various types of jokes and just observe what is the flow between us. Later, I let these observations sink and only then it becomes clear for me whether I want to go further with her or not.

[@zsuzsuspetals]

exactly. This may be the first time I have completely disagreed with him. I've been very happily married for 25 years but I watch this channel because I usually enjoy his videos. But this is nothing but hookup advice. I can't see this being the foundation of any real relationship.

[@atastefortheroad4475]

@@zsuzsuspetals - same here. This video surprised me. I think if he'd referred to it as genuine desire/attraction the conclusion would be different. Hookup culture isn't appealing and someone smashing on the 1st date is a red flag.

[@andyfranks1575]

I've only ever (and as subtly as I can) offered for her to come back to my place as a shit-test. On the occasions that it's happened and I've had sex with a girl within hours of meeting her, I've filed her under "never take seriously" or in today's terms: "she belongs to the streets." Now that I'm older, I think I'd pass altogether... Maybe... Depends on how hot she is.

[@amed.abraham]

I honestly like coffee dates or solo meetups as I’m not sure she’d be worth the money, preparation etc. and doing dates endlessly wastes money and resources .. plus, anything will work if the girl is interested and she will push for next steps through subtleties and body language

[@Xenozillex]

I agree. I don't want to put my stick in crazy mud. At the very least, make her drive to a place near you to gauge her initial interest.

[@lilbroomstick7914]

Not gonna lie, the soonest Ive gotten laid is the third date. I dont know if getting it in on the first date is that common anymore especially for us younger generation. We are just in general having less sex, and honestly I think the higher quality younger women of today 99% of times or more arent looking to get sexual on the first date

[@SmileyEmoji42]

Does that make a difference? If you're going to get lucky then your're going to get lucky after a date and it isn't going to be any date where you meet in the middle, for the reasons explained, so, unless you are sure that she will always stick to her, self imposed, rule of no sex before the 3rd date, you have to follow OT's advice for every date.

[@assiduous_yogi]

How old are you? first date sex is 100% definitely still a thing and young women are no exception Always. Be. Closing.

[@mudblood9699]

It depends on how sexaully attracted the woman is to the man and how much the man tries to initiate. 3rd date isn't too bad though. These days you generally want to avoid dating a woman for months before going all the way because most single western woman have put out within the first three "dates" at some point.

[@stratelite1337]

It started happening to me a lot after I hit the gym. But my photofeeler went from like a 6/10 to a 9/10. So, if you're hot you end up attracting more DTF girls. Mid guys can get laid but are more often girls looking for a stable and normal guy to settle for.

[@alexandrodl1371]

If your sample size is 2-3, I wouldnt dwell on it but it wasnt true 15-20 years ago. My average was 2 dates. I had a hot tub though which is pretty much a cheat code.

[@WilliamMunny-d8s]

this is a no brainer i learned over 10 maybe even 15 yrs ago. if a girl came over to my house its like 90% chance things are happening but the few times we went to her house it was always awkward, either with brother walking in on us or just afraid to be masculine enough and agressive to make it in someone elses home, it was exact opposite as my own place and 90% things WERE NOT goin down!

[@joshcrawford7864]

All the requirements for dating gives me no incentive to date!

[@channel1_channel]

They are not requirements. This is just advice. That is all.

[@ECard821]

@@joshcrawford7864 you don’t have to play the game, the less competition the better for some of us

[@SoullessAIMusic]

I enjoy these videos, they really break down those difficult and complex things that I have trouble grasping. Frankly it is all these strange complex, and I suppose what you would call average things that truly deter me from the dating scene.

[@angelamwatts]

Im so glad that I'm out of the dating pool. All I can say is WOW. Dating with the possibility that it can turn sexual? Wow, I guess that's why STDs and unwanted pregancies are so high. Good lord.

[@jimlong2469]

Especially when you have supposed "professionals" giving "advice" like THIS.

[@angelamwatts]

@jimlong2469 Exactly. The problem is that society encourages people to have no standards. I gave up on dating largely because most of the men I dated expected a happy ending at the end of the night after our first date. It's not okay, especially for women who feel guilty for having sex outside of a marriage commitment. I always felt guilty afterwards, especially because I knew that the love wasn't there. How could there be love when the time wasn't put in for love to grow? Then what happens? Unwanted pregancies, STD and a broken heart.

[@jimlong2469]

@@angelamwatts ......... TOO many evil "salespeople" all around ......

[@Nicttee]

Yes to all you say, but NOT on the FIRST encounter. The first encounter is always an interview for both parties, for obvious reasons.

[@karinalebedeva7335]

I think it depends on what to consider a date. I would creep out if a dude would invite me over for the first meeting/date to his place. But at some point dates should become more intimate, I agree.

[@Jasiel.95]

I saved this a while ago, this video is SO GOOD.

[@lauraholewa4314]

This doesn’t make sense for a first date. Perhaps all first dates are interviews when people have not met yet, which I think is reasonable.

[@viktor4840]

Why must there be a sexual opportunity on the very first date? Is ist really something completely different, if there is not enough trust for intimacy on the very first date, but on a later following one?

[@marcusr3795]

This is completely bs imo if there’s opportunity on the 1st date that’s not someone I would want t9 be with and or trust.

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

I love how you ask how this fits with my experience. I unfortunately don't have much experience though, that's why I'm watching your videos

[@assiduous_yogi]

Just ask Reese for some tips. Or Francis, that guy fucks for sure

[@jameshanna-mp7er]

Just take control guys, do it your way.

[@DietPizza1]

Date #1 is vetting for major red flags, which can be substantial online dating. I think this is a better date 2 thing

[@dieseldan5189]

Sex on the first date is a hookup.

[@devol5931]

Why?

[@JohnSmithEx]

​@@devol5931 because the decision to marry a specific woman is very very serious, and making the decision with the head that is on top of your shoulders is your best option. Otherwise you may end up regretting that decision for the rest of your life.

[@assiduous_yogi]

​@@JohnSmithExyou're marrying women after a first date?

[@assiduous_yogi]

A hookup is a hookup. If sex is the only purpose, we're not going out anywhere.....

[@dieseldan5189]

@@devol5931 common sense. Sex without commitment is a hookup. Logically and rationally, there can be no serious commitment based on 1 date. Not even a few dates.

[@DarkDodgers]

This is good advice but how would this apply to more religious men? Ones of which are waiting for marriage. Wouldn't every date be an interview in that regard? I suppose you could apply most of this logic without actually sleeping with her but is there any other notes to add?

[@CyberChrist]

Just the same, but confessing afterwards ;)

[@rickyc46]

None of his stuff applies to more traditional marriage minded men

[@gracerules2008]

I think he's just saying that a date includes sexual possibilities. That does not mean a man is obligated to capitalize on those opportunities if they come. Turning down sex for religious reasons or any reasons does not hurt anything.

[@GoogleUser-td1ic]

Religion is just another form of female role in your life to control every aspect of your life.😅

[@lijh]

Yes, it's all interviews. Just figure out if you're getting a new or used car by any means necessary. Remember there can be different types of intimacy. If you want to get physically intimate you can. Just be clear on your lines/boundaries in a smooth way of course. Not everyone has to be an adulterous, slut, whore.

[@windingrhythmfilms]

Is there any waiting for marriage still?

[@stevenpatterson9545]

Trump just got elected meaning apparently over half the country is okay with rape so I’d say prolly not

[@isaiahexile]

Hearing this stuff is insane, I guess I never even began to think a date could end in sex. Just didn’t seem honest and realistic, man I really did grow up in a different time being raised by old farmers. I’ve got a lot to learn…

[@laff8686]

The more i'm watching this channel the more i want to stay lonnely. I'm truly wondering how did we get to be 8 billion if all of that is true.

[@doberchic]

Most of those numbers are from grape and familial coercion.

[@CocoFranklin]

Great information being given. Good way to tell which type of males to avoid. Thanks for another good video once again 🙂

[@maijensen3317]

Avoid men who want to give you 'ressources' in return for sex!!!

[@KarenAbroad]

Interesting meaning of a date. I always get invited for dinners by suitors for a date, but I have never even consider sex. I am a Christian and saving myself until marriage

[@stuflikethis]

I can agree with the semantics of midway coffee not being a "date". But I still don't mind a first time midway meetup to vet them. Pay for your own drink and only commit 30 minutes

[@LeonardEarnshaw]

Maybe unrelated... There's no such thing as a perfect marriage or relationship; they're all different. What makes one person content might not make another person content. But I've learned that there's always a way to fix things. Five years ago, my wife and I were facing divorce because of problems in our marriage, but we managed to resolve them. It was challenging, but we survived.

[@BruceKnapp-n4q]

I genuinely want to be happy as well. I'm in a relationship, and even though we're apart, I can't think of life without her; my love for her is solid. I really want her back, and I'm committed to making it work. We've tried different things, like therapy, to mend things.

[@LeonardEarnshaw]

Saying farewell to someone you love dearly is never easy, but in my case, I had the assistance of a spiritual counselor who saved my marriage from falling apart. Her name is Suzanne Ann Walters.

[@BruceKnapp-n4q]

I'm thankful for this guidance. I'll immediately start searching for her online. I appreciate it. I'm hopeful that adopting this strategy will also bring about positive changes for me; I miss her deeply.

[@LeonardEarnshaw]

You should... I promise you will not regret it.

[@nlawson2004]

@@BruceKnapp-n4q You need to leave her and find another woman. Nothing you said bodes well.

[@neight123]

Ok good point, sort of. First meeting with dating apps should be a coffee or a drink. So I think he's wrong in that scenario. After the first quick meet, if there will be a second meeting, then that's a date and this advice makes sense.

[@zeeneac]

I love your videos, they're very enlightening, and very useful for simplyfing my thoughts and seeing things for what they are, which is why I enjoy your approach. However, I'd like to point out that it even *men* like to screen, why? Typically because of how people tend to meet nowadays for dates etc. it isn't much like old times where you see someone ask them out, or date someone from your circle/overlapping circles (not saying it doesn't happen). People meet each other on the internet very frequently, and I might be wrong, but I would like to think that's true due to many reasons such as convenience and safety for both parties. You'd be surprised but more often than not, if there is a connection, it can create sexual tension in any circumstances, whether at a coffee shop or running errands together, playing a game, a picnic whatever. Having a liking to someone is just as simple and beautiful as that. I have been on dates with both men and women and beforehand it is agreed most of the time to meet halfway to make it easy for either of the two parties to pull back, biological man or woman, and it does and has led to sex, becoming an atmosphere for sexual possibilities as you put it, at least in my experience.

[@beetleything1864]

i don't think getting laid on a first date is a great idea in the long run........but that's what i did last night - meet her 20 mins from my place - came back and stayed :) so yeah it works ....

[@-441-]

iT'S NOT

[@meeep9099]

Statistically speaking, dating in general isn't a "good idea for the long run".

[@-441-]

@@meeep9099 iT'S NOT

[@rayrwyr]

It is about of the possibility. Getting laid on the first date happens probably 30-40% of the time based on some informal surveys.

[@meeep9099]

@@-441- why not

[@desaryll2044]

Wow. This was very right. I recently started seeing some girl, shortly after another relationship ended. And I organized dates where we would meet in the middle. I didn't do it with the concious intention of not progressing with the new girl but that is absolutely what I was doing. I wasn't over the previous girl.

[@newyorke172]

I don’t know about this one 😣

[@zodiacfml]

thanks!!! I have a vague idea of a first date to this particular girl, and everything I thought has no chance of an encounter. Now I got an idea. I had this easy back then when I can invite girls and drinking in bars.

[@post-ri7dr]

Is a date to get to know each other better, so to decide if you want to build a future together. Sex should be part of that future, but it deciding other parts as well. Like what you have in common with each other. A man paying a lot on dating can get tiring and feel used by women who use them for free stuff. I think in the old days, women only go with dates with serious intending for a long term relationship, not dating to use men for free stuff. If the men had little chance, there would be no date. Romance may play a part also.

[@robertoatallabjj]

Your videos are great, already bought your book but haven't started rrading it yet. Anyway, great insight as usual, many thanks from Brazil!

[@Kuhesgewehr]

I think this is moving a bit fast, and doesn't account for distance... I've never lived in an urbanized enough area where you'd find a hot local single- it was always "well shit, that's an hour away, what's between here and there?"

[@DArtagnanFurioso]

Perfect AS guru explaining to you how to perform as an AS matching with women who belong to the streets

[@Focusembedded]

All very accurate. And as I reflect on just how spot-on it is, I lose ever so much more enthusiasm for dating in the post-Feminist world.

[@wisesagie1491]

And thinking like this will only make it worse, have good discernment but we aren’t all bad!

[@baritony8763]

This is soooo preconceived, sorted out and advantageous for the man it's silly NOT to do it. I had them (1)come to my neck of the woods and (2) just for coffee, to see if they really liked me and they would---and offer to come back. If you hold your own they'll chase,respect and perceive you to have added value. Great advice.

[@elishamorgan]

Thank you Dr. Taraban. I've never thought about dating this way consciously. Before, when I lived in the city, it was so easy to get a date because I naturally did this and it's convenient (living in a city), but currently this is an obstacle for me because I live in a small mountain town about 30 minutes from the closest "city". This makes it difficult to date, but I'm determined to figure it out. Thanks for your continuous, exceptional content and teachings.

[@patrickpierre-devtips]

Hey, we’re in similar situations. What is your plan to deal with this?

[@rayrwyr]

@@patrickpierre-devtips -- Rent a hotel in city for 1 week and schedule numerous dates during that time.

[@elishamorgan]

@@patrickpierre-devtips I haven't thought about it too much yet. As of now, I see two paths: find and date someone in the mountain region I live (find hangouts, meet IRL) - will require research and networking OR approach online dating differently. I will come back after I've thought more about solutions. Good luck to both of us.

[@elishamorgan]

@@rayrwyr I thought of this as an option (plan the date near an airbnb). It's not out of the question, but not sure I want to spend the resources on one date. I can see scheduling several being worth it though.

[@rayrwyr]

@@elishamorgan -- as I wrote: schedule numerous dates during that time.

[@shanesimons5801]

I don’t mind an interview as first date. I am interviewing her as I want a long term relationship? Your method works for one night stands?

[@Kushgroove234]

What if as a man I also want connection through coffee met halfway

[@chica212]

Find a mentor offline. These videos are for views/money/book sales and outrage. They’re not meant to help

[@michaelm9621]

This is totally gold information for men in the dating world.

[@DantheExpat-co8hf]

I have arranged meetings with women on other continents, so meeting halfway made no sense anyway. I always consider our first meeting just a meeting. The outcome of that determines if we go on a date or not. Most women need to feel safe with a man before they are going to consent to sex. That first meeting allows them to feel more comfortable that nothing was pushed on them in the first encounter. There have been exceptions where the first meeting becomes extended and leads to a very satisfying conclusion, but that need not always be the expectation. Then when we go on a date, the progression seems entirely natural, because they already felt safe from the first meeting. Every man should get a passport and invest in himself by traveling and exploring other cultures. There are still many where the women are raised to be good wives and they aspire to have a happy family and a clean home. I found my forever girl, and you can too!

[@conguitaable]

Maybe you can make videos instead of this macho man a threat for the society!

[@datura.4022]

I’m so glad you found a great woman abroad! That being said, other countries are becoming more globalized as time goes on (not a bad or good thing, just the way of life). When I visit fam in Poland, there’s a nice balance of traditional and ‘americanized’ sentiment, which I kind of like personally. The world is getting smaller or maybe we’re now just realizing how small it always was. But for the guys in the comments, plz don’t lose faith in us girls in North America born to immigrant parents (or not) who still have good values and embrace femininity. We’re still here! :,-) Just like Dr Taraban advises us, men too have to be discerning in who they choose. Even in large cities there are girls who are more traditional, just look out for how they carry themselves, dress, manners etc…

[@airgin3000]

Datura - that is awesome but America is so hostile towards men and the economy being shitty and the taxes and the PEDO-President and the ugly culture it makes staying jn America hard for Christian men. That is my take. American cities have turned into dumpter fires. :0 :0 :0 in so many ways. 😢😢😢 Maybe I need therapy - but that is how I feel.

[@Kritikanbringer]

​@@datura.4022 As if the bottom 95 % of men could choose! 😂

[@AGreatnessDiarie]

I wonder where did you find your girl, friend?

[@Bad.Pappy.Official]

I showed up to my first date in a very long time in my blues and bo-bos. They were clean, but all I had at the time as I was trying to reacclimatize to society. According to your lingo, it turned out to be a date as we connected in more ways than one. Who says you can’t get second chances?

[@gmoneymac23]

Good luck getting her to drive 30-45 minutes for a FIRST date closer to your place. IMO, it's happened but, by far, they were the exception and those who did were, more or less, short term flings.

[@frosty3693]

Interesting, but, being older, it would not seem valid for a first date*, for several reasons. But I would assume that a first date would be more of an 'interview' in a 'safe place' than a full on date. Otherwise a good point. * what expectations should a man have for sex on the first date and what can be assumed about the woman from that.

[@angamerc5373]

THIS is gold, the whole implication of this dynamic IS something that changes my whole mindset

[@CastleBlacke]

Good video and hot take…what happens if you’re living in suburbia outside downtown/ city area where dating is more feasible?or if you’re traveling or working remotely for work?

[@doates625]

There is a lot of truth to Orion's advice, particularly if the man is planning and paying for the date. However, relationships based on getting as much as possible while giving as little as possible are doomed to fail. Here is my counter advice, which has worked incredibly well: 1. Cultivate a lifestyle and mindset of abundance. 2. Freely give your abundance to those whose company you enjoy. 3. Pay very close attention to who freely gives in return in ways that you value. If they freely give something you don't value, explain what works for you and what doesn't and give them a chance to adjust. 4. Continue giving freely to those who reciprocate. Cease giving to those who don't. This process will slowly but surely filter for the best possible relationships of all kinds, both romantic and aromantic.

[@ManBearPiglet]

I love this. It makes sense whenever you are assuming the initiatory role in any relationship with the intention to exchange lots of value, of course you must be the first to offer value, and you must also be the first to escalate or increase the amount of value on offer, to make it into the high value exchange you want.

[@atastefortheroad4475]

My focus is similar to what you've described. Life works from the inside out, so abundance is key. Only invite those w/positive energy and intent into one's life and share and reciprocate here. Orion's approach is valuable for those w/a short-term dating strategy in western markets. If one is focused on a long-term strategy, attempting to extract as much as possible isn't smart. I've found choosing wisely from the very start has been the most satisfying approach. If the coffee/wine/beer interview isn't a hard yes, then it's a no.

[@marcusr3795]

Have to agree, what Orion said about women wanting to give as little s33x as possible seems dumb. If they don’t want to why tf would a man try to force it that seems awful why would you be with someone that doesn’t like you and better yet is there to get resources. In this day and age you’re waiting to catch a charge with this mindset and way of moving.

[@tann_man]

Going by Orion's definition of "date" I'd agree. But sometimes first "dates" can be blind. Which means a coffee (non)date is ideal precisely because it isn't a "date". Its an interview for a "date" or at best an interview that could turn into a "date"

[@GLDn1]

Put this entire video in a pan and it simmers down to one thing: Abundance Mindset

[@assiduous_yogi]

This is absolutely what it boils down to. I shake my head 🤦‍♂️ at so many of the men's comments here that seemingly fail to understand this simple concept

[@josuegarduno7154]

Care to explain the concept?

[@josuegarduno7154]

Care to explain the concept?

[@nathanbutcher7720]

Abundance mindset is basically a marketing tactic in an attempt to raise your value - by means of implying there's a long queue of customers to get what you're selling, so you don't care if people drop out of the queue.

[@PewterPan]

It works even better if you actually have abundance... But that's not strictly necessary. What matters is the attitude.