Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt #11 - (Therapist Reacts)

[@andedom]

My dad made his teenage step daughter run laps around the block, do push ups, swim laps, clean the dogs, etc as “punishment” when he felt he caught her doing something “bad”. He would have her do this for long periods of time. Shes an adult and out of the house now but it was most definitely abusive.

[@autumnhollinger8983]

Always love hearing your input on important topics such as this! I am so happy you have sponsors but I wanted to warn you about Better Help. They have multiple controversies regarding how they serve clients. I just wanted to inform you

[@vickiebain6734]

I grew up in an emotionally, mentally and mentally abusive home if I was crying I’d get beat harder to give me “something to cry about” and if I didn’t cry I’d get beat harder until I did the. Get beat more. There was no logic to the abuse, I’m in my 60’s now and have been in therapy for years trying to figure out my fear of showing anger ….. my therapist taught me I’m not afraid of anger ; I’m afraid of rage! I am finally at the point where my mind is t on hyper vigilance! This type of KZbin removes you from having identity or worth

[@helen.k]

I'm here for this. I'm so interested in your takes on this case. And by the way thank you for color coordinating the thumbnails!!

[@Jo-razz]

I am just asking this with the utmost respect - I have heard so many negative things about better help, & how content creators should not sponsor them. Now I am confused because I have seen nothing but high ethics and integrity in the content he puts out. Which gives me respect for Dr Kert. So is better help, good or bad? I am confused. Legitimate question??

[@akelly4207]

As a kid I remember a boy in my class running away from home. We were all asked if we knew his whereabouts. Eventually when he was found and returned the teacher told our class that he was fine but when he came back to class we were not to bring it up or ever talk to him about it. I always remember this because I’m unsure if it was the right thing. Maybe he didn’t want to be embarrassed or gossiped about but maybe his parents and teachers decided this and cut off a means of support and comfort. I also had a good friend who admitted to sexual abuse from and between her grandfather, her father and her brother. Authorities were called, her father admitted it and all that happened was her mother called her a slut and the family moved away. She still lived with her abusers every day. I don’t think there was any therapy except by their church who had been the ones she told and they had alerted the authorities. I know of worse cases but I think laws and punishment are too lenient. The system is underfunded, overworked and there is a shame element that means it’s kept quiet which I don’t feel helps. It’s a subject I feel strongly about but which depresses me like no other. The affects are so long lasting.

[@jellerzellar4588]

15:00 thank you for bringing up the fact that Kids in utah are in fact at a huge risk for abuse if these evil people have gotten away with it for so long! Utahs CPS are so bad. I grew up there and my abusive parents got CPS called on them so many times and NOTHING WAS EVER DONE. NOTHING!!!! and yes, my parents are STILL abusive! It doesnt just go away. Abusers will realize they can just get away with more and more abuse. Its a never ending cycle

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Wow. My goodness. I'm so sorry that happened. To be abused is terrible, and for the government to enable the abuse is additionally terrible.

[@victoriah7802]

Mormon influencer Jordan Page has bragged on her instagram about making her kids do lengthy wall-sits or excessive amounts of push ups if they say the word “damn” or call one of their siblings stupid.

[@LizWilliamsWildflowerLiz]

Wow I watch her from time to time I didn’t know that 😢

[@joellenklemek138]

Another horrific act of abuse that I have not heard any commentary on is that the “e” the youngest child’s head was shaved. The rescue officers initially mis identified her gender because of this. Of course the physically harmful/painful things like the bindings and solitary confinement, starvation, exposure to cold elements are bad enough! But I would appreciate some discussion on the psychological / emotional torture of a little girl having her head shaved.

[@Username74-b8h]

Something that people in the US take for granted is that these actions are classified by LAW as a crime. You're lucky that children can go to the authorities or have somewhere to go to even if it takes time. Because in some countries, authorities will tell you to "listen to your parents"

[@elizabethgulley7044]

I think that those 2 awful women are lucky that young man escaped. I think they were very close to killing those children.

[@mostHumblePersonAlive]

I'm glad you called out that what she did her children was torture. Child abuse almost makes it seem not as bad as it was. If they had done that to an adult they would be charged with kidnapping, false imprisonment, torture. I don't think they'd ever get out of prison if they had done this to an adult

[@edbrown5956]

With physical labor punishments the pain isn't over after the beating. Wall sits for long periods will make your legs like jello. Then right after where you walk funny. The next day doing specific movements will be painful and remind you of the day before. Plus I'm sure these kids aren't stretching before or after so they will be even more sore the next day. Now if they make them do the same thing the next day they will already be weak and definitely not be able to do it as well as the day before. Lastly it doesn't leave visible marks but will still cause discomfort for an extended period after. Something not as bad as the pain but still messed up is now those individuals will probably avoid that workout in the gym as they get old from the bad memories associated. So say they want to get healthy they will probably avoid all the ones that these people made them do as a kid. There are ways to still work that muscle group but seeing others in the gym do it may be impossible to watch and still workout. The parents may inadvertently cause the kid to be an unhealthy adult because of these camps. Personally the gym is the best thing I regularly do for my mental health. Here they make it a horrible thing. Shame on them. Kids are not soldiers in boot camp. Lack of proper parenting is no excuse to send your kids to boot camp. Glad Dr. K is speaking out about this crap!

[@Hummingbird1880]

I can’t understand how people don’t make the connection that under behaviour is often a hurt child or a child with needs or an issue with attachment. This behaviour modification approach is just so surface level train of thought.

[@Ms.Prairie]

Jodi doesn’t believe in “the theories of man”. Like I think she rejects basic Freudian childhood theory, on top of rejecting humanistic/Rogerian approaches and contemporary neuropsychology. In radical mormonism, a child rebelling or disrespecting a parent is akin to a**aulting someone. RF was made to do outdoor pushups for the simple act of forgetting his socks outside, so once Jodi arrived, Ruby was fully affirmed that was she was doing was ‘spiritually sound’ and socially acceptable by other radicals like her. Even Bonnie, her sister, blanket trained her babies (don’t google if you have any triggers to that stuff).

[@harleyenjoytheride1324]

Everything these two women are accused of having committed can and should be tied to their religious endeavors. Following the Mormon Churches dogma can screw up any sane person’s mind.

[@karengregory46]

Thanks , I wish you had a bigger platform! On point

[@siriusthecat]

i would suggest allocating many more tax dollars to mental health services and child protective services but I would like to see that come from the military budget. It would be pennies in comparison. That would be the kind of jumpstart in capital that would make people willing to pay higher taxes- if they trust that the taxes are going to services that impact their community

[@amandaw1712]

Oh boy, this was only the first 2 counts. Wait until you hear the other counts. Heart breaking

[@brandonwilliams4050]

Yes I was a little surprised at the direction Dr. Honda took the conversation in, and then I realized that he likely hadn't seen the full scope and horror of what was done to those children. Don't get me wrong, his lecture on punishment vs abuse and the lifelong effects it can have on children was very well done and helpful. But in my opinion what Franke and Hildebrandt did wasn't even close to "punishment"; it was sadistic criminal torture wearing the skin-suit of punishment. Reading those charges and what they admitted to, it is very easy to see that this was not a situation where suffering and violence is dealt out to children to intimidate them into compliance or out of pure rage for a perceived transgression. That itself is evil and inexcusable but it has an understandable purpose, twisted as it is. This...this was cruelty done simply for the enjoyment of inflicting pain on two helpless people who were at the mercy of these two monsters. As the saying goes "the cruelty is the point". I remember the first time Dr. Honda analyzed Ruby Franke and he raised the possibility that she was not "merely" abusive, entitled and cruel but an actual sadistic psychopath. I agreed with him then and now that everything has come out, I agree even more.

[@Zwantceeto]

So the better help add. Sounds to me like psychologists applying R+, like we do in the animal behavior field. This would be such a great improvement compared to negative bahavioral modalities like CBT that focus on pointing only the negatives and lowering patient's functioning in the long term. That would mean therapists boosting the self-esteem instead of forcing the individual into submission in order to obtain the desired behavior. There is little reason to believe that R+ works for any other animal but us and that we need to be reminded how bad our behavior is. I'm glad positive techniques are finally catching on, it gives me great hope.

[@emmajames4106]

Wow! My stepdad should be behind bars after hearing this! He did all these things and worse, not to his own children however!

[@FunFilmFare]

Just tried 1wall sit to see how hard it really its. Didn’t make it past 20 seconds. Should absolutely not be punishment for children .

[@ariesrainbowchild]

the older two are grown 😢why not the 16 and 14 were force to do cleaning another person house

[@camlam5269]

I believe it's because they were basically caught in the act when it came to the youngest children. The charges stem from the neighbor calling the police. The middle children weren't there when the police arrived.

[@ankitamondal7037]

There is a difference between punishment and punishment that should be given according to the crime committed. I never understood punishing someone severely for petty things.

[@YorMamma]

Kirk - not as many people phoned cps with first hand knowledge of abuse. The other families (her sisters) did not. The neighbours told police about seeing kids after they were arrested (as part of investigation). My understanding is it was mainly oldest daughter who contacted them and they thought she had ulterior motives (due to her age possibly?). CPS went out a couple of times due to pressure based on videos but didn’t find anything.

[@RockyDaTherapist]

Sadly in these cases of abuse the children will deny that they are being abused when police or Dcfs show up. If there is no current physical evidence on the children and they children say everything is fine their hands are tied.

[@e.k.4508]

In hindsight, the description of the indictment didn't do justice to the actual inflicted crimes. The pictures were horrible to look at, but made a difference in understanding. R. had wounds on his back of lashes. They both were skin over bones, severely dehydrated and malnourished, to a stage that they had diarrhea. They were denied enough food, water, sleep, warmth, cooling and at the same time had to exercise until they fainted. They were told simultaneously it was their fault for being punished, that they were evil and that the punishment was done out of love. E's head was shaved several times. R. had rotting wounds on both ankles and wrists with peeling skin. His bone was visible, so deep were the wounds of the binding. Imagine hoe painful all of this it must have been for their muscles and bones. E. was screeming for hours during the nights bc of fear and pain. R. wasn't reacting at all when the medics took of the duct tape including his skin, his nervous system was damaged a lot. The sunburns were deep and can still cause them skin cancer in the future. I hope they are in a good place now and will continue to be. I fear especially for the youngest, E, because she was brainwashed from birth. But they both must have been severely damaged. They both were really brave to survive, fighting for staying alive and of course R. for escaping!

[@APerson-qw8yy]

I like your haircut Doc!

[@BeverlyRose330]

Can we, as a society, please make anyone who makes over 1 billion dollars put every cent made past that 1billion into social services??? 🙏🙏 Please

[@andedom]

That would not be a good idea, imo. Basically a wealth cap. Would kill a lot of innovation that has led to some amazing ideas. I agree with us increase the top marginal rate on the highest tax bracket but making it 💯 just means people will find ways to offset income and also have less incentive to be productive.

[@RockyDaTherapist]

In California we have something like that but it’s not that extreme. It does help low income families receive mental health services.

[@BeverlyRose330]

​​@@andedomthere isn't an ethical way to have a billion dollars, let alone hundreds of billions of dollars. It's a crime against humanity to be a billionaire imo and I believe billionaires should literally be outlawed. Our capitalist political system needs radical change. I'm definitely open to other ideas but I stand firm that billionaires are deeply unethical and shouldn't be a thing.

[@edbrown5956]

@@BeverlyRose330 if people have a cap they will not push to keep making more by the idea of being the richest. Lots of these mega millionaires give up so much of there free time to build a brand or invention that wouldn't be worth it if it was capped. Sure no one needs that much but the possibility of it keeps people like them focused and dedicated. It would be nice if they would donate without wanting things in return like to this type of thing (some do) but it's needed to keep people motivated.

[@andedom]

@@BeverlyRose330 eh, I guess we see the world differently. Someone could be a part of a team that invented an cost effective way to produce cold fusion on Earth and legitimately become billionaire one hundred times over. They would have earned every penny and they may not have been motivated to create an affordable cold fusion reactor if this tax existed. Capitalism is the best system for incentivizing innovation. The solution isn’t to cap capitalism, it’s to increase education, regulation, investment in communities and the environment , etc and improve society that way. Socialism doesn’t work. That’s been proven throughout the 20th century.

[@angelawatson1594]

I don't understand why? It's far less work and effort to raise kids normally. What benefit did either of them get from all these "disciplines ", actually abuse. I don't get it. Why not just chill with the family and get on?

[@brandonwilliams4050]

Because (in my opinion) this wasn't about punishment. Reading the explicit details of what they put those kids through makes it very clear to me that this wasn't a situation where cruelty is inflicted on children to force them into obedience or out of rage. These "punishments" were torture for the sake of sadistic enjoyment, designed to cause maximum suffering. One of the atrocities was literally forcing them to stand in direct sunlight for days at a time to ensure they were horribly burned. That isn't punishment that is someone who enjoys hurting others, hurting *children*. I think Jodi Hildebrandt is a sadistic and criminally insane serial abuser who took full opportunity to inflict her signature brand of torture on two helpless victims. As for Ruby...I could go on a much longer essay but suffice to say that I think Ruby did beleive on some level that this was some kind of legitimate treatment or "behavior modification"...but she also had a deep resentment/hatred those two children (especially the boy who escaped). Thus, while she did buy into Hildebrandt's madness, there was also an element of pleasure at being free to hurt these people she hated with a clear conscience since it was to "help" them after all. Vile, despicable people both of them.

[@angelawatson1594]

@@brandonwilliams4050 thanks 4 that breakdown which makes sense. Ruby seemed to have it all. And lands up in this position? Difficult to understand how a mother justifies this to herself. As a mother, your heart breaks when your child is u happy. 💔 thank goodness this has come to light and all through the courage of that young lad who escaped. It must've been difficult to ask a stranger to call the cops on your mother and her partner.

[@PortasRex]

I love how respectfully this guy speaks about complicated issues, but every time the 'better help' sponsor shows up I start to have questions.

[@roanmangan7417]

Yeeeeeah… the “I advised the parents against putting their kids in bootcamps because it was so expensive and the success rate was over exaggerated” how about the fact that most of those places have high emotional, physical, and mental abuse rates?? I’ve known kids who got straight up r*ped and m*rdered in these places

[@leilap2495]

It has had me questioning multiple mental health KZbinrs as well.

[@audreymirandarusselman]

Sponsors are important, it helps a lot of KZbinrs continue making the messages and videos they need to. BetterHelp has helped me out quite a bit, I don’t think it’s something Dr Honda goes into blindly at all

[@RockyDaTherapist]

Better Help did get into trouble for third parties getting a hold of some patients information, I believe they have now corrected the problem.

[@PortasRex]

@@audreymirandarusselman so glad it helped you! TBH I have only met a couple people that tried better help. They both had pretty poor experiences and many mental health experts advocate against it with arguments I find very convincing. I appreciate that sponsorships are important, but I also think that sponsorships don't just exist for a channel's revenue, they are also endorsements of a product. Endorsing a mental health product on a channel meant to educate from an expert in the field seems particularly poignant.

[@moonikamaarja5657]

Was that BetterHelp a scam?

[@yogadork_namaste]

The charges were all the same. 2nd degree child assaut 6 counts(3 for each child, torture, starvingabd emotional damage). Dropping 2 was just done to get a plea deal so the victims didn't have to go to trial.

[@moiraslater8526]

Yep, nobody does nothing

[@NatalieSterrett]

Really? Better help?

[@a300pilotster]

better help Ill pass.

[@Mari-go5hc]

I could tell you the main reason but ill just say this. Its Utah. It shouldnt be hard to figure out!

[@laurabronson6173]

Dude … do some research before commenting! “It sounds like …”. Grr …

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. You're details are already uninformed.

[@skyeblu1722]

What is your problem?

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

@@skyeblu1722 I have no patience for lazy reporting.

[@susanbaker3480]

I had a good experience with BetterHelp.

[@Ms.Prairie]

I personally believe the American federal government needs to investigate Utah DCFS for preferable parent treatment through religion, social status, and perceived race. I truly believe the former two are at play regardless of whether (I also believe that) ancestry played a factor here. thank you, dr. honda 🫶🏻