Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt #12 - (Therapist Reacts)

[@marybrasic2101]

One thing I haven’t heard addressed specifically yet is that repeated severe sunburns in childhood will almost certainly result in a significant increase in skin cancers later on in life. Not just elevated risk of skin cancers but pretty much guaranteed. These poor children will quite literally be forever scarred from this abuse, both mentally and physically.

[@Ms.Prairie]

That’s exactly what came to my mind too. My mom is a nurse and she would tell me that the sunburn can cause more damage than just the painful peeling. I pray they used aloe. I was an outdoor kid and those sunburns were almost a lesson to wear sunscreen in the first place. 😢

[@blackthornsloe8049]

For sure . PTSD ... telling them they were evil and deserved it and then telling them they were abusing them because they loved them .

[@BelllasMom]

Correct. They can pretty much count on it in 15-20 years.

[@SharpLife4]

Yeah ok

[@larissabrglum3856]

I'm considered at elevated risk for skin cancer, so this was one of my first thoughts when I heard about how horribly those poor children were sunburned

[@IWantToRideMyBike]

People tend to think that the emotional abuse of sitting the kids down and telling them how awful they are isn’t really that bad. I still remember my dad doing that to me in high school. Hours of it. I wasn’t allowed to get up and I would just have to sit there and cry. Now at 31 years old and a parent, I know I wasn’t really that bad. I had emotional problems. But it still hurts

[@daniellewinn5774]

Hours??? Multiple times? That's just awful. I'm so sorry your parent treated you like that

[@dianaselnekovicova948]

Yeah where you got those emotional problems?? I guess from father when he was capable to do that for hours…

[@RenayOpish]

It has such far reaching effects, it is crippling, nothing you do is ok.

[@Alayhoo]

Those kids barely got out with their lives. Had Ruby’s son not escaped, knowing what they put him and his sister through, they wouldn’t have survived for much longer. I grew up watching parents in the LDS church put their own fear of being perceived negatively before the health and safety of their children. That has to stop.

[@Juciwaters]

Listening to this and realizing some of the things my own parents did to me and my siblings that were similar same types of abuse. Society really really needs to be educated heavily on what abuse is and how what they’re doing is literally torture.

[@badtvbad1]

I agree we need educational efforts because there are plenty of parents who just do what their own parents did, or don't have the skills needed yet, or they are overwhelmed and don't know what to do. The pernicious thing about this particular type of child abuse, that is cult-like and based on religion, is that any type of public education efforts will automatically be rejected as being evil. I don't know what to do about that. I wish I did know of something that I could do.

[@orlaa4539]

I'm so sorry you went through this. No one deserves this. It makes me so sad thinking about you and other children not being treated and parenting fairly and gently

[@Pond_Maven]

The child was 6. It’s Eve - Ruby has been after Eve for a long time now. Eve was the child who was terrorized by Ruby, who threatened to cut off the head of Eve’s stuffy toy. The thing that strikes me about the “Eve failed to pack a lunch” vlog is Ruby’s sense of superiority toward the teacher. “It makes the teacher uncomfortable” she observes with obvious disdain. Ruby sees herself as more professional than the professional, because Ruby does not succumb to “feelings” about hungry six-year-olds. Ruby hopes that no one cracks and gives food to a hungry six-year-old.

[@donnaroo8042]

Meanwhile Ruby was making and packing lunches for her grown-ass husband. That's what got me - "She knows she's responsible for her own lunch," but not Kevin?

[@orlaa4539]

She's so sadist and cruel

[@joellenklemek138]

@@orlaa4539 yes totally sadistic. Society “we” need her to be locked away for our safety. She’s a dangerous woman. She should 100% be locked up for a good solid 20 years after her youngest victim has reach adulthood. And the when she is release she absolutely must be registered as an offender. And I guess it would be best for society if it’s a sx predator type registry. She must never ever have access to children again. As for the other nutjob, Jody, she’s so delusional and grandiose that it’s hard to tell if she’s sadistic or just hallucinating.

[@jamie6639]

Wow that's heartbreaking to hear how many parents in the world right now are following this ridiculous "discipline" and making so many kids lives horrible

[@Maria-io7fx]

I am a dog trainer. There are so many parallels in the dog/pet training community with various parenting styles (including abusive ones such as this). Except because it’s a dog, things tend to be assumed common place/normalized. I see traumatized dogs (especially rescues) be retraumatized over and over again because of this “discipline” and “reprimanding” or alpha type of mentality. It’s so sad to see children being treated this way

[@tracevicente]

I was a high school teacher and now a certified dog trainer and I agree with your comment. How can pain, punishment, and suppression help any living being?

[@dianaselnekovicova948]

I cannot imagine that i would train my puppy with their blanket method how could they do it to their own children!

[@Dominique_99]

Shanda was a dog trainer too but she appeared to treat her dogs better than her children. I do think there was some parallels though because she talked about breaking down the dog and I wondered if she thought that’s what you do to kids…

[@Maria-io7fx]

When I was younger, I would ask people about how to address certain behavioral issues (which I realize now are not “issues” but mostly developmental milestones in puppyhood lol). Some well established local trainers would tell me to discipline harder…until it works (ie the undesirable behavior is no longer occurring). Thankfully I’ve never been comfortable doing that but it’s amazing the mentality you must have to do so

[@imhottequilabrown]

Just some random facts i find interesting: Ruby as a young woman suffered from some kind of an eating disorder and was tirelessly practicing piano - she wanted to go pro, but "was not talented enough". I remember her saying both of those things. Then as a parent she made her children get up every day at 5 a.m. to practice their instruments before school (piano, violin, harp, cello, flute).

[@leora8278]

So she wanted the Von Trapp kids pre-Maria.

[@imhottequilabrown]

@@leora8278 I get that the whole family and their spouses are into music (the Franke dad as well), they play together etc. and it's a lovely thing to share, and it does need practice, ...but her motivation feels different from her siblings, idk.

[@leora8278]

@@imhottequilabrown it might be that it's another way to discipline them

[@siriusthecat]

Oh man, I had an ex boyfriend whose mom was an elementary school teacher. Apparently she would advise parents to hit and spank their kids, giving advice on how and where. This has always just sickened me because you know some of those people were validated or allowed to enact this behavior becuase a teacher suggested it! A person whose job is to work with and educate children! Ugh.

[@leora8278]

Disgusting from a teacher.

[@MiraBoo]

1:00-1:08 this is because they believe that salvation is achieved through suffering. Or, to be more accurate, they use this bogus explanation to excuse and justify their nefarious behaviors. Some may be in denial, others may be delusional, but I suspect that most parents as abusive as Ruby (even prior to her meeting Jodi) are well aware that they are sick, selfish, and sadistic scoundrels.

[@AstroMoonGoddess]

Hey, Kirk! It was brought to my attention by forensic psychologist, Dr John Mathias of the Hidden True Crime youtube channel, that Ruby’s sister admitted to using blanket training on her own kids. The sister’s name is Bonnie and she said this in one of her KZbin videos. To me, what I’ve learned is that blanket training is abuse. Can you explain a little bit about what it is and what it does to the human psyche in a video? I don’t think this is something that is widely talked about and I think it should be. If parents are practicing this on their kids can CPS intervene?

[@badtvbad1]

Good questions. I'd love to see Kirk address this.

[@AstroMoonGoddess]

@@badtvbad1 thank you! 🫶🏻

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

It's hard to know why parents do this, but in my field, we tend to point toward factors such as culture, upbringing, trauma, lack of education, lack of support, emotional dysregulation, etc.

[@orlaa4539]

I remember the blanket training topic being talked about by Kirk in his deep dive on the Duggars. It is definitely abusive to beat babies. Absolutely sick. Kirk and Humberto were horrified when they learnt about this practice.

[@angeladansie4378]

​@@AstroMoonGoddessIn my view, it would create a sense of learned helplessness in the child from the very start. When a child feels that life is unpredictable & unnecessarily cruel, they would be easier to control & indoctrinate with fundamentalist religious beliefs

[@blackthornsloe8049]

I cant get over the fact that they told them the avuse was love . Handcuffs , torture , starvation ... love . These ladies should NEVER get out .

[@sarahohara4022]

This shit is so heavy man. I previously taught in an urban school district and I’m still haunted by the ongoing child abuse, which would escalate after I would report and result in students trusting teachers less.

[@imhottequilabrown]

It's heartbreaking... And pretty much the same, at least where i live in Europe.

[@Footprinces]

Yes!!! “Child Abuser Influencers” this is exactly what they are 😡😡

[@tinyhomestead6023]

Thanks for your rant! It's been very heavy on my mind, and it helped me to hear you voice these problems. ❤

[@susanmurphy958]

Happy New Year Dr. Honda. You are Awesome!❤🎉❤

[@orlaa4539]

This whole topic makes me sick. Being a mother is a privilege, children deserve rights to safety love and security. Its good to have this talkes about I had no idea people would consider this "parenting". And using religion to justify torture of kids 😢

[@charitydixon7828]

So many issues with previous generations' style of parenting revolve around the fact that they view hitting and harsh punishments as synonymous with the word discipline. Discipline stems from the word disciple- to discipline children, then, means to teach them and work along side of them, not to brutally punish them until they blindingly obey all of your wishes and commands.

[@charlize9341]

Brava, very well put (at about 8 minutes on). "Concerned with the well-being of God" is something I will be thinking about for a while. I think this paradigm of interpreting Christian theology as prioritizing that God is doing ok and not offended by our actions as above taking care of one another including one's own children is actually the primary Christian theology in America.

[@LovingFlowers]

Sadly, Dr. Kirk, my perception is that your childhood experience in the church is the rare/weird version and the high control, cultish orientation is the mainstream in Christianity. But I’ll admit I had negative experiences in the church that bias me toward that belief.

[@delagonz4295]

Same! When he talks about his church I can’t even wrap my head around that since I grew up mainstream cult!

[@AmeliaTauber]

Respectfully, I find it very disappointing that you still work with Better Help. There have been numerous examples of how they are unethical not only for the patients, but also for the therapists that work for Better Help. I understand that they pay a lot of money for sponsorships but there must be other sponsors that could fill that space that hurt less people.

[@MollyPrewittWeasley]

Agreed. I really expect a lot more from a therapist. Makes me much less trustworthy of anything he has to say.

[@la-girl3020]

Taking time for self care is really showing you look so much more relaxed 😎

[@cantsay]

I wonder about the 6yr old "not packing her lunch", i bet there are insane rules in the kitchen and she gets in trouble for how she makes her lunch. Making her lunch is probably tramatic.

[@katella]

I'm glad this wasn't around when I was a kid. My parents were very punishment inclined, I'm sure they would have approved of some of this

[@Beachedwhales237]

The whole “absolute obedience” thing they tote is so disgusting and sad 🥺 it’s so good to hear you speak out against these things. Coming out of a christian cult with IBLP leanings.

[@imhottequilabrown]

Thank you! Perfect upload for the evening

[@magikenzee]

10:28 if i didnt wanna eat my mum put it in the fridge when i asked for treats later i was given back the dinner

[@kristindewey2400]

I’m sorry I just have to say the “do you think this very young child said ‘ehhhh fuck it’?” had me laughing SO hard

[@cjgroom109]

such a disturbing topic. I really appreciate you covering things like this

[@mmsmar]

and lets hope autorities finaly will do something on that grand scale, not only putting two crazy women to jail...

[@saraadams9518]

I don't think it's just the 6 year old that was the target. It seems like Russell had it equally as bad if not worse. I do wonder why it just so happens to be her two youngest children? I DOn't think that is an accident that she, or they, chose the two youngest.

[@em8066]

Ugh. The parallels aren't all exact, but yeah, this reminds me of my childhood. Fundamentalist Christianity nonsense, being punished for existing, other violence I won't get into, and the daily grind type of psychological abuse. I wanted to cheer on Dr. Honda's anger at all of this. To think millions of people followed the advice of those abusers is galvanizing. I want to be part of the solution, too.

[@cjgroom109]

I hope you will watch Jessie Hildebrant’s interview with News Nation!

[@MiraBoo]

Salvation is not found through suffering, especially not when that suffering is inflicted via the parent to a child. Similarly, inflicting harm to a child does not teach obedience, respect, or good etiquette. The fact that there are parents who think abuse will teach good etiquette to and provide salvation for their children is horrifying and tragic. They speak of loving God while they follow in the Devil’s footsteps.

[@leora8278]

It teaches blind obedience if they want to be safe but that's in no way a good thing. It doesn't actually teach them wrong or right.

[@MiraBoo]

@@leora8278 Yes, you are right.

[@Keepcalmliveon5]

I love the red shirt!

[@karengregory46]

Great podcast. So good !

[@waitz001]

complete obedience is a slave's lot in life - that's what they'te "training up" their children to bee. that's tje economic power of the cult.

[@replyhazy]

Please talk about the Timothy Ferguson case

[@reneewoodside45]

I was thinking the same. Would be very interested in an analysis of her testimony/cross examination.

[@khaIid624]

Can you stop cutting this up in so many parts??

[@delagonz4295]

I see your new here

[@orlaa4539]

He's reacting to the story as it develops.