Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt #5 - (Therapist Reacts)

[@AlexyssLinn]

How incredibly brave Jessi is for sharing their story and making it clear who the “ringleader” in all of this is.

[@All5AJz]

Either way the women both participated in long term abuse before they met and escalated together.

[@AlexyssLinn]

@@All5AJz absolutely! I think it was just important to Jessi to make it known that Jodi was the ring leader because of how much coverage has been focused on Ruby. They had mentioned that a few times on that podcast.

[@All5AJz]

@@AlexyssLinn She has done too much to many and yes she needs to be and stay where she is.

[@AlexyssLinn]

@@All5AJz agreed!

[@thebowandbullet]

I remember raising inconsistencies in the bible in religion class. It's the only time I ever got in trouble in school: the religion teacher said my questions hurt his feelings. Apparently it's the only class where you can't ask questions when the material doesn't make any sense to you. I'm an atheist now.

[@Mama_Bear524]

I’m super lucky because I went to a Catholic private high school and the teacher who made me question the Bible’s validity using logic was my religion teacher. So thankful to him. For example he said the first story written about Jesus was like 100 years after he died. Like how can it be accurate? He said think about playing telephone how in just that circle by the end the message is different so imagine 100 years? So ya. I was so lucky because normally people have your experience. You shouldn’t have been in trouble. That right there proves it’s a cult. Yea there are outliers like my teacher but your experience is much more common.

[@scarlettredding]

Saaaame lol but im Spiritual

[@Thinkforyourselves64]

Man is a poor example of God. I’d give Him one more chance. Just stay away from certain churches who truly are run by the devil in disguise. You might check out a larger Seventh-Day Adventist Church. I say large, because the smaller ones tend to be rather legalistic. You’ll find health and happiness and peace of mind there. Compare churches amongst the SDA’s till you find the one where they actually walk with the true Lord. If you get on your knees and sincerely seek His guidance, God will guide you. Trust Him. I promise you won’t regret it.

[@A78cts23]

Yes I was in a Christian university class where the teacher was pointing out how certain passages were blatantly ripped off of "heathens" who were praising Baal...beginning of my awareness of my agnosticism

[@BeatlesFanSonia]

I went to a Catholic school and I almost didn’t survive because I questioned everything. The teachers slapped me, pulled my hair and terrorized me in many ways. They said I was the devils daughter etc! Every question brought a violent behavior!

[@germanxmascookie]

It's so nice to hear Dr. Kirk, an actual clinician, not hesitate in using the term "cult" for this religion.

[@Marxnchill]

Yesssss❤

[@rachellevigil9004]

As an exMo, I found this incredibly validating.

[@BeatlesFanSonia]

All religions are cults and even evangelicals are in a cult

[@jeremysmith9694]

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints he has no clue what he's talking about. And honestly he has no right to talk about something under the guise of authority as a therapist. He really needs some better education on the subject. Stay in your lane Dr.

[@marissali61]

@@jeremysmith9694you’re annoying

[@wagonmaker9523]

As an ex Mormon… Kirk calling it a cult is so soothing. Also… loving the use of “fuck” more liberally. Feels extremely cathartic in these.

[@cassidynichols-dahill1066]

I’m also a an ex Mormon, I’ve been out for 11 years and I still go mentally back and forth on if it’s a cult or not.(even though logically I know they are) I think I still try to make excuses for why it isn’t a cult. Like “we’ll they aren’t as bad as the FLDS” or “we’ll they don’t shun (as strictly) as Jehovah’s Witnesses”. After 11 years I’m STILL deprograming

[@chatnoir9038]

​@@cassidynichols-dahill1066I think the BITE model is a helpful tool in figuring out the cultiness of certain movements.

[@MadeOfQuestions]

She was a trained, licensed therapist, then she lost her license for 18 months for breach of confidentiality and having a duel relationship with a patient. She had to complete 20 other criteria and get thru the 18 months to get it back. She did it. Now, she has voluntarily surrendered her license.

[@Doxygurl]

Yes, and on Mormon Stories John Dehlin also interviewed the man whose life she ruined when she breached her contract, Adam Paul Steed. He was specifically targeted as a whistleblower for child sex abuse in Boys Scouts of America and the Mormon bishops who harbored the abusers and did not report them to police. She specially broke confidentiality with his church and Brigham Young University where he was attending school, and had him lose his church position and be kicked out of BYU.

[@karlos543]

I wonder if that's for a few years?

[@MNP208]

@@Doxygurl There is a new Netflix documentary about the Boy Scouts. Sickening. I had my kids in cub scouts, but luckily, they either had female leaders or my husband was always with them.

[@marissali61]

@@MNP208females molest children too.

[@cassidynichols-dahill1066]

Do you know when she surrendered her license?

[@cjgroom109]

No need to apologize for cutting the video short- the rate at which you post content is so so so impressive and we are so thankful. If you ever need to slow down we will still be watching

[@summersevening]

So glad you’re doing this series. Please do also cover Adam Paul Speede, another victim of Jodi’s. He and his wife were sent to her by the Mormon church for marital counselling and his recounting of how that came about and what happened sheds further light on how Jodi worked and how this links into systemic abuses and cover ups. It’s a horrific story and I can’t even contemplate how many more people have been abused. Huge admiration for Jodi, Adam for coming forward and praying for all the children and adult victims to find healing and a way past these horrors.

[@lacigold6627]

I officially left the Mormon cult a month ago. I had NO IDEA how cult like it was until I recently opened my eyes and I was SHOOK. 46 yr member. (I’m typing on my daughters account, lol)

[@papabear2515]

Good for you! Welcomes to the world!

[@Aalisrocklist]

🤩

[@holively7]

I was Mormon from birth, and was devout for 30 years. Two things about questioning: 1) We weren't necessarily taught not to question things in the religion. In fact, we were almost encouraged to sometimes--Mormons believe in personal revelation and that anyone can ask God for advice or confirmation of truth. Therefore, if you had a question about an inconsistency, you could consult faithful sources (those put out by the Mormon church), and you could even possibly ask your bishop. Ultimately, however, you needed to ask God about the question in prayer, and He would give you the answer. The insidious part of all of this is that if you didn't get the "correct" answer to your question (correct being one that would support the church), or if you felt like you didn't get any answer at all, the fault lies with you. You weren't faithful enough or you didn't study enough or God's letting you struggle with this for a while as a test of faith, etc. So even though the Mormon church encouraged questioning, they could never be wrong. 2) I thought I knew most of the inconsistencies in the church's history and scripture, and I had done the mental work necessary to be "okay" with those. I had also thought a lot about the church's present-day bigotry and come up with a suitable answer in my mind for why that was. Now that I'm out I recognize how harmful all of this cognitive dissonance was. I also have learned many things that the church tried to sweep under the rug.

[@Mama_Bear524]

My family on my grandpa’s side is Mormon. My grandpa left the religion when he was quite young. But the rest are still devout. It’s unfortunate.

[@jennifermendoza4916]

There was so much I have learned that I had no idea when I was active. Mountain Meadows Massacre, Second anointing, and blood atonements are a few that come to my mind

[@anitah2404]

The Mormon Church is moving towards a more controlling environment where you’re not supposed to ask questions. The top leaders want you to blindly follow them. They say that looking for answers is not the way to go. Just believe. It’s ironic that during the internet era they are asking people to dumb down.

[@holively7]

​@@jennifermendoza4916Agreed. For me it's been enlightening to learn more about the unedited history of Joseph Smith. Examples being just how far into treasure hunting and occult magic JS was during the time he was supposedly given the gold plates, how he coerced many of his wives into marrying him by holding their families' salvation over their heads, and that the Nauvoo Expositor was burned down at JS's behest because they printed the truth about his polygamy practices. By the church's own admission, Mormonism hinges on whether JS was really a prophet. The church works hard to make sure that the rank and file members are given just enough information about him that they think they know about most or all controversies surrounding him without being exposed to the true depth of his terribleness

[@carolinereeve5747]

I disagree. As a born and raised Mormon, I was always taught that doubt was something to ignore and fight. Only have faith and believe and God will take care of the rest

[@revinaque1342]

Jodi Hildebrandt was one of the most popular therapists in that area, because she was the therapist recommended by LDS bishops. Her loyalty is to the church, not to her clients

[@samanthas8340]

Well from Jessi's interview it sounds like Jodi didn't have much respect for the bishops or hierarchical structure of the church.🤷‍♀️

[@fellowviewer1095]

Yes, in fact the church often paid the bill.

[@beanyboomer5391]

@@samanthas8340 so, is that an ok reason to abuse Jessie?

[@jenniferhyde5389]

There was a mutually beneficial controling manipulative behaviour from the Mormon bishops who worked with and paid Jodi.

[@samanthas8340]

@@beanyboomer5391 No, I was questioning the part about her loyalty to the church. Which I think could be an important distinction, that the abuse is very much her own doing no what religion she follows.

[@nikkibee139]

I'm Jewish and I can attest to the fact that in Judaism, we are taught to question everything. I'm super interested in the psychology behind cults but one question that always plagues me is "Why don't people question it more?" but you made me have a lightbulb moment when you brought up Judaism. Obviously, there are some high control Jewish sects who can be very insular, but for mainstream Jews (like 99% of us, from Reform to Modern Orthodox), from the moment we are kids, at home and in Hebrew school, we're taught phrases like "wrestle with G-d" and "argue with G-d". Even just culturally, it's not uncommon for our parents to almost goad us into questioning them and have vigorous discussions and disagreements when we're kids. The idea of not having any of that framework is alien to me. Edit: Also, thank you for saying positive things about us, especially as we approach Yom Kippur. We often get a lot of hate, sometimes not even purposefully, from uniformed people (usually Christians), who describe our beliefs and practices as "legalistic" or our G-d to be "mean" or "brutal" because all they know about the Torah is the Christian Old Testament, which they view as the same thing. It was lovely to hear our beliefs (or the way we acknowledge our beliefs) talked about positively, because it's not every day we get that level of acknowledgement, especially from non-Jews.

[@ladyj.9350]

The best religious conversations that I ever had were with a couple of jewish professors. I wouldn’t even call them debates because we were really just exploring the concepts of theism

[@MNP208]

Every religion, even Judaism, has cultish elements. The Hasidic culture? Most Catholics aren't extreme either, but there is an sect of very conservative Catholics who can only wear skirts, practice self-flagellation, etc. Also requiring celibacy is abnormal.

[@nikkibee139]

@@MNP208 Which is why I mentioned that you can find high control groups even within Judaism. Hasids are not the majority of Jews however, they aren't even the majority of Orthodox Jews, which is why I mentioned this aspect of Judaism that I love being very present in mainstream Judaism.

[@samum5856]

Happy New Year and easy fast on Yom Kippur! I am Roman Catholic, but am very interested in other religions, most recently Judaism. Two things: first, it’s hard for me to describe what I really am. I believe and love God, but I don’t practice my religion other than I try to be a good person. I did sent my child to religious education and we often talked about things he learned and I let him and even encouraged him to question everything, to notice inconsitencies, we even joked about a lot of things. But in the end, we always agreed that we don’t know or understand everything, but we do what we can. The other thing: please forgive me for asking, but I wish I could learn so much more about Judaism, and make friends with Jewish people, but I always have a feeling that they are kind of closed off. Not sure how to call it: almost like a group they don’t want non-Jewish people to belong to. Is it me? Am I wrong? It could very well be. Sorry if the question is out of place. Dr. Honda: I loved your comment and love this episode!

[@whym6438]

As someone who was raised in Conservative Judaism, but no longer believes, I find I can still go back to many of the values I was raised with and often, they are still good and useful attitudes to have. Judaism's insistence on improving the world we live in, rather than preparing for the afterlife, and its respect for scholarship and education are both values that I think most people could benefit from growing up with.

[@bronwynsnow4366]

After this one, the two-part, four-hour, interview with Adam Steed is so important. These two interviews, Jessi, and Adam, are together the most harrowing descriptions of malpractice of a therapist I've ever heard. Jessi's story is painful, but Paul's is next level, not that it is the trauma Olympics...but his account is just incredibly important because while Jodi may have been abusing kids as a sideline, her main business seems to have been breaking down marriages with false accusations of perversion and sexual abuse, plus Paul's whole incredible story highlights the issue of how male survivors of childhood sexual abuse are treated in these super conservative religious cult organizations. The fact that he has survived sexual abuse by the boyscouts, coverup and shunning after reporting it, and then happened to stumble into Jodi Hildbrandt's orbit and be involved in this scandal probably makes him the biggest sex abuse whistleblower in US history. I hope that the outcome of these stories being shared is eventually some vindication and peace for these interpersonal whistle-blowers so that others can take on some of the emotional burden. It really touched me how angry Kirk was about religious/cult abuse and that he didn't try to sugarcoat it. If folks like Jessi and Adam can be brave enough to survive it, we need to be brave enough to listen.

[@kristio294]

Thank you for commenting this. I was coming to say the same.

[@jennifergrove2368]

Unfortunately The Mormon Stories Podcast had received a restraining order to take down Adam Steed's story. They're working to fight it in court but as of right now it's been taken down. Very sad. Not sure who filed for it, if it was the Mormon Church, or Boy Scouts of America, or Connexions, etc..

[@carrieh922]

Your words about the state of humanity resonate so deeply. The way we treat one another is atrocious. I am glad there are people like you out there calling it out.

[@memarie001]

To shed a bit more light on Jodi's licensure: She was a fully licensed and credentialed therapist. And as others have mentioned, she frequently received referrals from bishops in the area (she may possibly have been employed directly by the church through LDS family services, though the structure may have changed since I left the church). She had her license suspended for a period of time due to a number of ethical infractions, not the least of which being that she broke confidentiality and relayed confidential personal information shared by her client (a BYU student) to the BYU honor code office, which ultimately got the student dismissed from the university.

[@karenburns9]

And what she shared wasn't true ! She was trying to ruin him and succeeded !

[@katherinegunaratne3365]

I watched the whole interview and Jessi is really incredible. They are so well spoken and thoughtful. I am so appreciative to them for sharing their story.

[@rachellevigil9004]

As a recent exMo (out for about 10 months) still on my own healing journey, I appreciate your willingness to call a cult a cult. Part of my deconstructing phase has been realizing the psychological harm growing up in the Mormon church has done to me; I had to realize what it was before I could fix it. It’s validating to hear from an outsider that there are things that are messed up, and it wasn’t just my imagination and I’m not just a drama Queen. Especially since my parents (who will forever be Mormon probably) will never understand or respect my decision to leave and believe I am under the influence of satan.

[@cassidynichols-dahill1066]

I’m also an ex Mormon. I’ve been out for 11 years. Are you a Utah/Idaho Mormon? I feel like Utah Mormon’s are quick to shun a family member who left the faith. Fortunately I’m from Maryland. and 4 of the 5 siblings (including me) have left the church and my mom has never even thought about cutting us off or telling us we are influenced by satan. 2 of my siblings left at the same time while still in high school, 14 and 16. My mom said they didn’t have to go to the Mormon church but they had to go to A church l. So they went to Christian Church in the area. The only thing my mom says is she prays every night that we will go back to church.

[@rachellevigil9004]

@@cassidynichols-dahill1066 Nope, not a Utah/Idaho Mormon. I grew up “in the mission field”, as they say, and so did my parents, though my mom was an adult convert. We never, never would have been allowed to leave the church before leaving home. I’m not the one of my siblings who has left, but none of us were brave enough to do it until we were adults. My parents have taken it pretty personally, as the church teaches them that if their kids leave, it’s their fault for not indoctrinating us well enough. They are convinced we will all come back one day, otherwise the emotional torment would be too much for them to bear.

[@cassidynichols-dahill1066]

@@rachellevigil9004 yeah my mom was introduced to the church when she was 16 but wasn’t allowed to get baptized until she was 18 because her dad wouldn’t give his permission because he was a devout catholic. My dad wasn’t a member tho. (There wasn’t a lot of Mormons were I was from so a lot of members, mostly women, had spouses that weren’t members) He did get baptized when my mom left him thinking that would win her back. She just recently told me that when she wanted to get her endowments (over 10 years before my mom left my dad and be became a member) she had to get her husband’s permission to get them, which STILL blows my mind.

[@elcee8]

Good for you! I grew up with a lot of Mormons and have even gone to Mormon camp in middle school as well. I still admire the Mormon friends I grew up with but I LOVE my freedom from being tied to any religion (not even to Buddhism which my dad is a devout Buddhist and was a former Buddhist monk). My older sister was going to go to Brigham young university but ended up choosing a Jesuit college. I followed her footsteps and we both ended up agnostic and loving this freedom. I wish you luck on your journey and hope you find people who will support you.

[@stellannie86]

I've watched a lot of content with people who've left high control groups, especially mormonism, and it definitely _is_ such a common story where the person is trying to learn more about their religion because they love it, but end up finding so many contradictions that they end up leaving.

[@WitchOracle]

I think in particular with the LDS church, the history of the book of Mormon, being so recent and so well/poorly documented, is an especially illuminating subject for believers who want to believe more but then become disillusioned.

[@SarasHotandDangerous]

That’s exactly what happened to me. It was a devastating response when I was met with hostility, and basically told to ignore those questions that I had when I was so into the religion and was expecting a clarifying answer.

[@SEOshogun]

You made it nice nice for us anyway. It is bad bad, but we're in this together. Take care of yourself, Dr Honda. You deserve it too. You really really do.

[@WitchOracle]

This comment is so lovely and succinct and I want to boost it and hope Dr. Kirk sees it!

[@emiiii]

I didn’t understand this comment until watching the video all the way through! 😆 I was like, huh?? 😅

[@madelinemahajan2808]

Fellow therapist~ You are one of the first to say everything that's on my mind! So glad I found you.

[@MelanieMacKarney]

❤ Take care of yourself Dr. Honda! Because you deserve it, you really really do. 🤗

[@rhondajohnson8310]

Did not realize how triggering this can be but I appreciate it because growing up in the church was... hard and difficult and I'm just talking about 'regular' church. Thank you for this deep dive, Dr. Honda, please take care of yourself, too!

[@ninskdesign]

I listened to both full interviews of Jessi and Adam Steed and there are so many parallels even though the two life experiences are completely different. Heartbreaking to listen to, but their stories need to be heard and acknowledged. So grateful to them for speaking up, I can’t imagine how difficult it was, and the coordinated ‘get over it’ mentality from the church is so appalling and harmful. Adam is such a fighter, he has done more to protect children than those Q-nuts could ever dream of. And if Jessi was my sibling, I’d be so damn proud of them!!! The expectations their family has for them to live in denial is absurd and until their knees are bloody from groveling for forgiveness and acknowledging what happened to them (on their watch)… their family doesn’t deserve them. It’s enraging that they are putting that trauma on Jessi and not taking responsibility for failing to protect their own child. Their resilience is so impressive and a testament to their character.

[@cbrown4499]

Thank you Dr Honda for insight and validation of my own thoughts. It is particularly helpful and supportive to hear out loud because I now work primarily alone as a therapist. A shared experience of sadness, anger and all of it helps to get up and keep doing what we do.

[@alittlestone]

This interview is SO AMAZING. Thank you for sharing your reactions and thoughts. After watching it, I really wanted to talk to someone about it, and "being in it together" with you has honestly helped me further process the things (so many impactful and profound things!) Jessi said. I grew up in a religion that holds many of the same beliefs, and hearing about the way those beliefs were and can be twisted into abuse ... I mean, I felt speechless over and over as they shared their story and even more their thoughts about what had happened and why and how it has affected them long term. Jessi's story has implications that stretch so much further than just this one tragic news story, and I'm so glad they are being heard and their heroism is being recognized. Because I think Jessi is a hero, for surviving and for continuing to use their voice to fight after being silenced for so long.

[@LiathT]

I spent 14 years involved in a high control religion as a kid. It was hell. Thank you for talking about this and raising awareness and thank you in particular for your comments at the end. It really isn’t nice-nice; it is absolutely bad-bad!

[@AF-uk5ug]

About the cult within the cult: this is happening currently in the Catholic Church, and there are a lot of little cults, and it's scary

[@wowzies6247]

my mom is a part of one, i’ve brought it up to her and my dad many times but it has taken over her life. these cults take advantage of people who are emotionally and mentally struggling, it’s disgusting

[@AF-uk5ug]

@wowzies6247 yes, struggling people is exactly the people they prey on, it's really awful. I'm sorry your family is going through that and I hope it will somehow get better

[@candynickel]

Christian cult sects abound. The Attorney General in my state is an elder in a high-control "give your elder your social media logins"/"you brought abus3 upon yourself" group who have hid SA. From ignoring the pastor's son sending a picture of his ENTIRE nethers from front to back to EVERY female parishioners number he had, to physical SA. How did they punish him? Used a large donation from a parishioner to take him on vacation.

[@charlize9341]

@@candynickel What state?

[@hothamradio]

Definitely take your time watching every minute of this interview - it's so worth it. Jessi is so incredibly perceptive and expresses all of this so eloquently. Mormon Stories!

[@gabriellawarnick9456]

I’ve grown up in the Mormon church (and actually in Ivins, UT) so this story has been so devastating to follow. I do just want to say that I 100% believe that the church doesn’t do enough to prevent abuse and even creates environments for it, even though my own experiences and those of many people I know have been normal/healthy. There is ALOT culturally that my friends, family and myself have big issues with and vocalize as they come up in meetings yet we still find connection to Jesus Christ‘s teachings in this religion - I hope that members start to hear stories like this and let themselves ask questions, doubt, walk away a bit and just generally approach whatever belief or faith they have with kindness, love, intelligence, and a desire to serve everyone rather than an inclination to be perfect, obedient and bunker down into stricter, more rigorous and even blind devotion. It creates more dangerous sects and situations that hurt people in this way :(

[@andedom]

They are an incredibly good interviewee. Smart, brave, insightful. Edit: Yes, this situation is bad bad. But you’re doing your part to expose it and make a change Dr. H. That’s the best we can do!

[@andreashypailo5778]

I love you, Dr. Kirk - I know this is sad. Thank you for being willing to show your true emotions

[@akirashiori6265]

Thank you for blessing us this week with these back to back videos

[@femma7609]

Dr Kirk, your message right at the end really got me in the feels 😢 I so needed to hear that this evening 🫶🏽

[@jennifermendoza4916]

Flashback to when I was a young girl in seminary class and my seminary teacher told me I asked too many questions. This was confusing to me because if I was confused about math or English I was taught to ask the teacher. For those who don't know, seminary is a LDS class taught in public schools in Utah. (Maybe other states, IDK)

[@loupgarou95]

In public school?! No, I grew up in Florida and public schools didn't have a specific religion class, just general coverage of world religions during history classes or whatever.

[@jennifermendoza4916]

It is held at the public school, but you don't get credit for it. Some schools have it before or after school, but I had mine in the middle of the school day

[@WitchOracle]

As someone in the Midwest who went to both catholic school with required religion classes and public school with the only religion class being a social studies elective, I'm shocked that there's a "seminary" class in public schools. Wow.

[@dharmafey]

Yeah.... That's SUPER shady holding "seminary" as part of a public school. That's shoving a telephone pole through a toothpick-sized loophole. It's the kind of thing that the Satanic Temple has tried to confront by sponsoring after school clubs.

[@bridiemacdonald9436]

I took the time to listen to the entire interview - Jessi is amazing - really enjoy your contextualization and (very appropriate) outrage.

[@SF-kc6zv]

The fact that Jessie didn’t know who was a spy for Jodie and who wasn’t… that sounds like living in a panopticon. Another panopticon aspect of Mormonism that I’ve observed is the tattling that members do on other members, sort of like in Scientology. There were several Mormon students at my high school. One girl found out that another girl, a friend of hers no less, had done something intimate with a boy. She tattled on her friend to the bishop, and the friend became temple ineligible for a time. It must have been such a betrayal and intense shame and humiliation for her. From what I gathered, it’s very visible and shameful if someone is temple ineligible.

[@karenburns9]

Such a control mechanism

[@TheCandiceWang]

One of my dear old friends left Scientology as a child with her parents, only to become a LDS.

[@baileymau]

Thank you Dr. Honda for covering this story, and for all the work you do. And thank you for calling the church for what it really is. I'm an ex-mormon myself, out relatively young (teenage years) but I still feel the effects of the damage the church did to me all the time as an adult. It truly is terrible to try to imagine how many people the church has hurt deeply. I'm so glad Jessi now felt able to speak out about their experience and share what they know. I hope this story reaches as many as possible, and that these women are brought to justice for their actions. If it were up to the church it would just be swept under the rug.

[@kjgaia]

What Dr Cushman told you about Jews encouraged and instructed to regularly question and get reacquainted with our faith is exactly right. Nice to have a Judaism teachable moment from you right in between our two high holy days.

[@LatteSmurf]

Thank you for sitting with those of us who have experienced this in our pain. There is nothing profound to say, it is only profoundly sad. I had noticed your lack of awareness of the scope of this facet of society (the intersection of religious fundamentalism/cults and homeschooling) in your coverage of the Plath family (this is not a criticism, you can't know everything) and as a victim, it is comforting to see your eyes being opened in real time. Appreciate you and the work you are doing.

[@taramama6658]

I can’t even imagine for years you shout from the roof tops what your aunt has done to you and not even your family gives you the time of day!! So sad!! I’m so happy now that Jessi has the opportunity to now help others with what has been done to them.

[@ericamichelleatx]

Thank you so much for what you do with this channel. I hope you get reminded from the “online community” often enough that you are doing a beautiful thing for people by making these videos and allowing us to tag along with you to process these heart breaking and crazy stories. You provide professional insight into these heavy things in such an authentic, empathetic, knowledgeable and thoughtful way. Thank you for what you do! I promise I’ll subscribe to support asap. It’s been on my to do list! But salud to you for contributing to society like this. It truly is doing good in the world 🙏❤️🎶

[@michaeldslipp1078]

Dr. Kirk Honda, you are such a compassionate and ethical provider. And never with even a hint of sanctimony or of the “goody two-shoes.” In fact, you’re often funny AF. Thanks for all you do!

[@margan59]

The Mormon Stories episode discussed is worth a listen. It's long, but you get sucked in and time flies.

[@queeniebee7736]

Jessi is so articulate and so kind to tell her truth- with the purpose of helping the victims/children.

[@koffeekai89]

Dang I keep catching these so early! Two minutes yesterday and 50 seconds today bahaha. Cant wait to hear more.

[@VonPatzy]

Just found your channel due to following this story. You are so on point but also human. You drop the F bombs where they are due AND you immediately noted, course corrected, and then landed each Jessi pronoun without struggle. That gets you a subscribe - I do wish this didn’t make you such a unicorn though. It shouldn’t be so hard for others.

[@noprogressionisregression6854]

I don't meet a lot of people that have such seriousness and such an ability for critical thoughts. I don't mean a lot of people that are able to be so honest even when it looks bleak. Most people feel like they have to make things flowery. So I greatly appreciate your honesty and realness.

[@thesingerintheshower]

You're a cool guy. I'm happy that KZbin recommended your channel to me.

[@RichelleH]

I was raised strict JW and can totally feel for Jessi for not being allowed to question or have some willpower. We aren’t allowed to think outside of the box.

[@taramama6658]

Same questions I had about the Mormon church I started asking to many and guess what that’s all I needed to know. I’ve been out of it for over 15 years and never happier

[@madebychristie]

I'm not a mental health professional and I have watched all of the interviews that have come out on this case including several from one of Jodis victims, Adam Steed. Watching you come to similar realizations I have as you watch these is so affirming.

[@beatrizcarter9172]

❤ I really enjoy Dr Kirk’s perception on these very delicate topics. It allows us space to feel the sadness and disappointment of what people are doing to other people. Thank you for being so real. Truly, if I could choose a mentor and I was closer during my MFT journey. I’d choose you Dr. Kirk. You’re everything I look up to be as a therapist one day. ❤ oh god I’m crying. Hahahah 😢😅 Embarrassing! Keep doing this Dr. Kirk, you’re changing lives! ♥️😭

[@rh2631]

Dr. Kirk, thank you so much for your expertise and view into these cults that harm children. Your coverage and insight has opened my eyes of the ways people use God for power and control over others. To realize the scale in which this is happening is horrific! To use God is the worst type of domestic violence as no one wants to go against God. Thank you for saying "we're in this together, to support each other", I appreciate you! :)

[@halodisciple8459]

The LDS (Mormon) church has zero to do with this. They don't teach or condone this abuse. Such lies.

[@kantui525]

We need "It's not nice nice, it's bad bad" on a mug.

[@jenallen5202]

She was licensed and her license was suspended in 2012 for 18 months. She started conexions to get around the therapist rules and regulations.

[@annafdd]

And yet after listening to several hours of Jessie, I found their resilience and ability to emerge as a thoughtful, eloquent, beautiful person incredibly life-affirming.

[@saoirsemoon]

They’re so brave.

[@brokebishboutique79]

I've had therapists that I didn't think were a good match but this.. this is so many levels of crazy I just cant

[@sharonpower4658]

Sounds too familiar, I too was raised in a religious cult (not mormon) I was also the girl who started questioning and was labeled very early on. At 3 I was told I was evil and wouldnt be in God's kingdom. The sexual abuse started at 4 and was kept hidden. I was raped at knifepoint at 10. My nickname was Sar (stubborn and rebellious) I was constantly accused of stuff I wasnt doing. They sent me away at 14, I had no say. When I went to the police later I was disowned from the family and the church. There is so much evil in these cults being done in the name of god it's very sick. I stand with you Jessie.

[@Aw_tig]

I’m so sorry this happened to you, it’s just so sad. I hope you are doing ok ❤

[@sharonpower4658]

@@Aw_tig I'm great now, I went on and made a beautiful life for mysellf away from the family and church and advocate against religious sexual abuse. I've got 3 beautiful sons, thank you xoxo

[@Aw_tig]

@@sharonpower4658 Oh I’m so pleased to hear that 😊

[@laurablack8700]

Thank you so much for this, it was so healing and validating to hear you discuss the Mormon church as a high control religious group or a cult. I’m someone who was raised in that cult, sexually abused by a church teacher as a child, got shamed by my family for the issues that came as a result of that abuse, developed bipolar disorder and covert narcissism, and lost my family and community when I left as an adult. My family thinks I’m suffering because I’m a sinner and I left the church. I’m just now unpacking all of this at 40 and i just wonder how many more people there are like me struggling to recover from cult trauma.

[@barbelgeomuc1349]

I can really relate to this feeling of being almost overwhelmed by the extend of the problem. What gives me hope is seeing groups/videos about topics like religious trauma, hurtful believes and cultlike groups really grow on social media, especially among younger people. I think there is more and more awareness that things are going wrong. But there is still a very looooong way to go ...

[@AChickandaDuck]

“A cult within a cult” is 100% it. So scary.

[@ThisMelMel]

Wow. Thank you. 👏👏👏 It’s not Nice-Nice. It’s Bad-Bad. Thanks for caring about This MelMel. I care about you too. All of you. ❤️‍🔥

[@severinesalvador]

"it's not nice nice, it's bad bad"

[@jolenejoleeene]

Coming from the Bible Belt and having lived in Utah, I am disgusted by how often people use their religious beliefs to justify hatred and terrible behavior.

[@RockyDaTherapist]

As you’re digging into this stuff don’t forget to take care of yourself. This topic is heavy for any decent person. 💜

[@1WFran]

Don't give up on making thing's better where possible. Good people are needed. Like the neighbour that the brave young Franke son went to. He did good that man .. and his wife. But the world needs good people so dont give up

[@emmiem6159]

The guy who was abused from the boy scouts. You should watch what he said Jodi did. 😢

[@stellannie86]

I've noticed that even as an atheist myself i use religion, especially when a person - theist, spiritual, or questioning - is mourning a loss.. I don't know if it's just an easy way out for me, because honestly i'd LOVE to believe something like that myself 🤔

[@epow]

When I was 6, I asked my rabbi who made god. He was not happy with my question.

[@barbelgeomuc1349]

Thank you for looking into these topics as a therapist. I think there desperately need to be more thereapists that know about weird christian/religious groups. My experience (in Germany) was, that I didn't find a licensed therapist that had an understanding of these topics. This would have been paid for by my health insurance. I found an arrangement that works for me: I am talking talking to a rabbi every two weeks over the phone (and pay for that myself) I am doing this for a few years now, and it really helps me to sort things out. --- but nonetheless I think it's a huge problem that there are apparently no licensed therapists over here that can understand religious trauma or cult-like stuff (I looked for quite a while, asked at church, also a psychiatrist that knows me quite well tried to find something).

[@emmarita487]

Jodi has two kids as well. Someone might want to ask her own kids how they grew up

[@jennifermendoza4916]

Jessi has stated that Jodi's daughter is no contact with Jodi but has a good relationship with her dad

[@orshaysociology]

About what you said about Judaism: there's a strong tradition of skepticism in Judaism, like you describe. But there is unfortunately also an opposite tradition which is just as strong. Israel has terrible chassidic cults where free thinking and asking questions is a taboo, and they also have the aspect of child abuse and defending the leaders at all costs. It can get as nasty as whatever goes on in Utah.

[@maam-yj8ph]

As an inactive Mormon who served an LDS mission, I was raised and taught others to pray to God and Jesus about any religious questions. So there is this ritualized experience where every person is supposed to get a warm, cozy feeling of peace that a principle or decision is true or not. That experience is called "feeling the Holy Ghost." But obviously these personal experiences can be widely interpreted and manipulated. I have to say I think that the cults within the cult thing is more of a regional phenomenon; in other words, I very much doubt most Mormons have any idea who Jodi Hildebrandt is.

[@cindyliao2250]

The Mormons does not know the monster Jodi is and yet bishops keep referring people to her? For those who are religious, they trust the church and look for church/bishops for guidance. The church completely failed them. That is why religion does more harm than good!

[@gigiii813]

@@cindyliao2250there are millions of Mormons all over the world. Bishops are leaders over what is called a “ward,” which is a congregation. There could be 1, 10, 20+ bishops and congregations in a city depending on how dense the population of the church is in one place. There are thousands of bishops all over the world. The bishop(s) that were referring people to Jodi likely did not know of her abuse. If some did, they are equally guilty. I think this comment is saying that in like, Australia, or Europe, or wherever, Jodi might not be on the radar, because a lot of these issues are dealt with on a regional level. The church leaders are required to report any and all accusations. Some might not, but they are supposed to. The church has something called family services, where you can access a therapist for really any reason you might need, which bishops use church funds to pay for. I had years of therapy (for disordered eating, self-harm, bdd, as well as couple therapy, all unrelated to my upbringing in the church and more to do with an abusive sibling) paid for by the church. That is how I found this page. My therapists rarely spoke of God at all, and I live in Utah. They were wonderful and helpful and nothing like this. Evil people exist in and out of religion. Harm has happened here and other places in the Mormon church. That is inexcusable. They also can do a world of good in some cases. I never want to belittle the harm people have experienced through the church or by the people who are there, but I know more people who have good experiences in it than bad ones. I have recovered fully because of the help I have received and never would have had access to if it weren’t for family services and my bishops. So sad to see that abusive people take advantage of this. Especially since many people who seek out help from them cannot afford to pay for it themselves.

[@Aw_tig]

There are further episodes on the Mormon stories podcast channel, one where they discuss the lack of ethics with Jodi’s practicing, there is another therapist on there who is just as upset and angry about how she has been practicing for so long. There was clearly already a lot of problems and troubling ideas in the Franke household as we have seen in clips of their old videos, and just the fact that the children had no privacy and were always being filmed and posted on the internet for everyone to see is just so concerning. I can’t even imagine having all these childhood and teenage years posted online for all your class mates, neighbours and the rest of the world to see, I have no idea what the parents thought they were doing other than using their kids to make money. Then it seems things obviously got more extreme after they started having therapy and classes with Jodi, the fact that they obviously needed therapy or support and ended up with Jodi is so frustrating. It’s so sad that the young children ended up at her house, I am so glad the young boy managed to escape when he did, which led to his sister being found, it’s just so sad. I hope the children get all the support and care that they need it will be a rough and confusing time for them. I know some other victims or people who had therapy from Jodi have started coming forward and I hope something can come from this within their community or the church, as there is a much wider and larger issue here. Anyway everyone take care of yourselves and each other ❤

[@christinadiaz4349]

I am a devout Catholic. My son is NOT. I never for one second would give my child to anyone and allow this. He is 31 now and has 3 children. He still doesn’t believe and I am still a devout, Catholic. I love him and my grand babies no matter what.

[@happyjmc]

I learned a lot about my own family dynamics watching this. Thank you 💕

[@mamabear52]

Hildebrandt lost her license from a privacy violation concerning her revealing confidential patient/client information about Adam Steed to not only the Bishop but the college he attended. As it turned out this Bishop was in the leadership position of the boys camp where as 14yo Adam was SA and sued The Boy Scouts and won. Jodi’s license was suspended for 18 months and she was apparently a favorite referral by the Mormon higher ups. I am going to say this was about 2008 or so

[@em8066]

Dr. Honda's anger is healing for me to hear.

[@mountainhealer]

To get a comprehensive understanding of what possibly happened to the Franke family you also need to watch and listen to Adam Paul Steed on Mormon Stories…it’s unbelievable what Jodi Hildebrandt did to this man. He is a hero.

[@dominiquemmaurice]

Thank you for your open and honest response to this dreadful situation

[@elizabethgulley7044]

Adam Steed also has a very harrowing story. He was vilified, thrown out of BYU, his career ruined, his marriage destroyed. His life ruined. And Mr. Steed had already been terribly abused in childhood by people in the Boy Scouts who were also Mormons, who were also protected pedophiles. Protected by the Mormon Church. Mr. Steed went to Jodi because the church recommended her to him, but, they also told Jodi to destroy him because he had come forward regarding his abuse in the Boy Scouts, and they were angry he was causing publicity to the Mormon Boy Scouts. She was a hammer for the Mormon Church.

[@aimeeyork6319]

P.s. Last night attorney Melanie Little broke news on the findings from the search warrants at Jodi's compound, and I cried. There was hot sauce and honey next to bloody gauze, some with both mixed together. It's not hard to imagine this being applied to open wounds to pull the so called devil out🥺😢😞

[@RosyFdz]

24:36 bars. Humanity is a beautiful beast we haven’t learned to understand yet

[@learning2live_brokeninchro157]

I cannot phantom going to church and seeing a child with their mouth duct taped! I don’t care what the adult would/ could say to me, I’d be calling the police!

[@RosyFdz]

27:33 I think it can happen one day, I’m thinking about applying to an educational psychology program because I want to be part of the movement, humanizing science, the way you humanize psychology, with better science literacy, I think in like 200 years, we could be much better as a species

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

I'm glad you're fighting the good fight!

[@aimeeyork6319]

Growing up, my parents were involved in what we realize now was a cult - I remember feeling so special (not hard with 7 kids🙄) when I got to go with mom and dad alone to the Bill Gothard seminars - and while in this Christian Community it felt normal and safe and right, but looking back and becoming educated about abuse it's a bit alarming. Re Jodi, she recently 'willingly' surrendered her license so I guess she was legit but it's my feeling that she was the #1 therapist recommended by the Mormon church because she carried on the brainwashing outside of the church. It's all very disturbing, the number of lives she's destroyed.

[@Sneaky_Snek]

Hey !! Love the vid and insight into psychology

[@dianawilson13]

It isn't just Jodie. There are other Mormon Church approved therapists doing the same thing.

[@macrograms]

Team Jessi. [Jodi as of yesterday has agreed to have her Utah license "frozen." I dunno exactly what that means but am glad. ]

[@MadeOfQuestions]

7:33 if the Utah Police would have just listened to Jessi, all of this could have been avoided! (We get to this at the end of Jessi's MS interview)

[@summersevening]

That’s what raises even more questions for me. Because it wasn’t only Jessi. Jessi reported this at the time. Adam Paul Steed has also come forward with his own horrific experience - he not only reported that but got her licence suspended. Then we know there were multiple visits to the Passenger 8 kids - and those authorities knew about Jodi’s involvement. And that’s just what we know about. How many others will have tried to do something. So what was going on to block any action to stop her?

[@MadeOfQuestions]

You know, I thought of something I said, Utah, but I think Jodi may have lived in Idaho at that time it's been a couple weeks since I watched the full interview. So maybe a different state, but if not, it really does. There is definitely a pattern showing

[@LizzyArnold-b7z]

I can barely listen to het story because it is so heartbreaking And the fact that there so many other victims, I cannot But I’m glad someone like dr Kirk can talk about this abuse and expose It makes me angry and want to help But what can I do?

[@kimmi2662]

With Jodi,what we know is bad, but I'm sure what we don't know is even worse...

[@kristinegarner3027]

I was adopted and apparently got the short stick because my adopted parents were staunch LDS and very similar to the dynamic of Ruby and Kevin Frankes. When I saw the movie, "Black Fish "and it explained certain whale pods don't get along with other whales in different pods. I could imagine what the whales musy have felt like, swimming in a small tank, with other fish that will never, ever get you, missing your pod.

[@mccauley2023]

first time ive seen or listened to you Dr. Kirk Honda. Thank you so much for your honesty in regards to this matter... Nothing will be changed in regards to Child Protective Service, as our Government don't really give a damn about the funding of such... They are too busy fighting about children's rights/mother's rights on abortion... Sounds more like a control issue that a concerned issue... I am now subscribed... That you again 😇

[@8happyperson]

Please watch the Mormon Stories live podcast ep with Adam Paul Steed. Adam talks about his experience in couples, group, and individual therapy with Jodi. He also talks about many other things related to abuse he’s been through and the mormon church but the therapy part would be especially good to hear from you about since you do couples therapy.

[@TheCandiceWang]

Dr. K, what would your diagnosis be of Joseph Smith? I wonder if he was epileptic?

[@YinYangAngel55]

15:27 "and when you hear the story its.." me: ~dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb~ couldn't help it.

[@smoothgoth]

I had a abusive relative, and just knowing that its systematic breaks my heart. We are so f*cked.

[@jenniferhyde5389]

Thankyou . And I care about this aswell.We are in this together. ❤

[@RosyFdz]

I have religious trauma and I also 💯 support all religions 16:15 as long as they aren’t harming people