Publishing my transcriptions - Let's talk about it!

[@orangeman1131]

Hey Matt, first of all, I can’t adequately express in words my deep gratitude for all that you have done for us Genesis fans. Without your videos, I wouldn’t even know where to start. You’ve done all the research and leg work in terms of technique, equipment, even giving settings in text overlays. Unbelievable! It’s heartbreaking that anybody wouldn’t be unkind or ungrateful to you. Your content is pure gold and you are an absolute gem of a person. Who are your viewers? I can’t imagine there are many people doing Genesis cover bands. For me, I’ve been a Genesis fan for 45 years, played the organ as a kid, I own a bunch of synths and have some VST’s. I’m very much a Tony Banks wanna be with less than mediocre playing skills. I’ve purchased music books from Italy on eBay with full transcriptions of old albums, I’ve paid transcription services and gotten many transcriptions from a few KZbin creators willing to share. I scrounge around for as much as I can gather. So as a living room musician with a full time job, anything you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I wouldn’t get hung up on every last detail because then you will always be stalled. If there are some mistakes or inaccuracies, I wouldn’t care in the slightest. I couldn’t play accurately if my life depended on it. If I could just play some passages that you transcribed, I would be overjoyed. You make it fun for me and this should be fun. Anything you do would add to this fun. There are so many chords and phrases in those live performances that I can’t find anywhere and I would love to have them. Sorry for all the words. I hope this answers your question to some degree. Don’t worry about being too perfect. We are lucky that you are thinking of doing this in any way, shape, or form.

[@tomsmith86]

Hey Matt, you are doing great things by posting this information for the folks who may not have the ear but are able to sight read. I would suggest that whatever you share is up to you but I look forward to seeing what is to be your next step. The fact that you even devote your time to do what you've done thusfar is very admirable. Here's hoping that your students have discovered Genesis (the early years) and have been passed the torch.

[@sailingwhisper149]

Matt, this is very exciting! I think the best thing to do would be to notate what keyboards are playing what on the staff, maybe upper staff is the right hand and lower staff is the left hand. Also, you should definitely make tabs for guitar and bass parts. In my experience, a small number of guitar/bass players know how to read music, but 100% know how to read tab.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

Thanks. That’s what I was thinking. There are moments when the left hand part is playing a lead, or the notes in the left hand are higher in pitch on another keyboard. I wonder how much I have to think about people who don’t follow the videos.

[@GeneticsBand]

Thank you Matt!

[@AutisticYui]

Honestly they would be very helpful for learning myself! Relying on other peoples' always results in me coming back to your videos and finding differences. 9 times out of 10 I prefer your versions and would love that clarity. Especially for the live stuff, I feel like you really can't find that stuff anywhere...

[@dukestravels1861]

This is an interesting topic. In many ways, we’re exploring new copyright/publishing territory, making sure the writers & publishers get their fair share, and arrangers & transcribers get theirs. Appreciate your thoughtful take on this.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

It’s the angle I have the least clarity on. When my band plays a venue, the licensing fee is either paid by us or the venue, but it’s negotiated how up front. When uploading a video here, YT does the work (mostly correctly). I’m hoping Arrange Me from Hal Leonard is the way to go. I’m curious how many countries outside the USA are available to its users.

[@dukestravels1861]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 i’ve had one or two people ask for a transcription of the Cul-De-Sac intro.kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2jKmXmvZtOHgqMsi=IApOUv5oFzGjCBMY. Since I did not receive any payment, no copyright laws were violated as I understand it. Concord Music Group has not published Mr. Banks performances, so nothing was ‘copied’.

[@nicolasmalak7405]

Hello Matt, please keep up the good work. Whatever you do, i think you have good support here on youtube and i will be waiting to see anf hope for a good outcome for you. These videos your making gave me kick to practice more and dust off those keys. Thank you so much.

[@KeysBR]

Publishing the drawbar settings and effect signal chain would be very cool.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I was thinking of doing that, probably what Tony Banks did and not how to achieve it with modern tools, since there are too many variables. Thanks.

[@MrRbarbieri]

Whatever you decide to do I can only say thanks. Your love for Genesis and your expertise both musically and technically have been a source of many delightful hours recreating those Banks sounds and playing. So thank you! (Would you do Inside and Out? Love that song!)

[@tomloncaric6189]

Thank you so much for considering sharing your extremely valuable resources! As a keyboard player, I’d love to see Top staff: Right hand Bottom staff: Left Hand Name of each keyboard as it appears printed on the staff. Guitar and bass parts would be great to see. I know more bass players that can read standard notation. Guitar players are more used to tab.

[@dom0201]

Matt, you're a priceless source of historically important works - as important, to my mind, as the great symphonies. This is quite a burden on you, but as regards bass and guitar the more detail the better! Thank you for your diligence and service.

[@Ben-W18]

Hey Matt, I'm currently learning Tony Bank's 12 string part of Cinema show from your video on it and it would be cool to see a play through or transcription of Mike Rutherford's guitar part in the Alternate tuning aswell so I could learn both. Thanks!

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

My band’s “Rutherford” is currently learning my transcription and we have rehearsals this week. Let’s see how he’s doing and maybe I can talk him into a video.

[@Ben-W18]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 That would be great! Thanks Matt!

[@grumblefier]

Be fantastic to have access to your transcriptions because it's hard to remember the parts if you've not played them for a while- and I've learned so much over the last few years from following your videos and seeing not only how you play the songs, but also which parts are played by which instruments. Difficult to understand all the potential legalities because as always with YT and social media, you'd be crossing so many legal jurisdictions. In the UK however, it would appear that a transcription of a song is an adaptation of it, and any (published) adaptation is an infringment of copyright.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I definitely am wondering about how this would work outside the USA. If only a few copies sell in America, but then bootlegged overseas simply because access is blocked, it all becomes pointless.

[@grumblefier]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 Not sure it matters you only sell in the US Matt- US is a party to the Berne Convention and so has to recognise the copyright of eg. Genesis

[@jimhewes7507]

While I always like to see other people's transcriptions myself, I think it's good advice to tell people to listen to the record and try to learn the song themselves. It's good practice for your ear. I've seen plenty of transcriptions that are clearly not exact. I'm self taught and I started long before internet when the only way to learn was to listen to records or cassettes. No real way to slow the music down. My biggest problem was trying to figure out what was going on in the left hand of piano parts because that's usually lost in the mix or covered by other instruments. "What is Elton playing in his left hand?"

[@odmusicman]

It is undertakable why so many pine for older Genesis transcriptions. Particularly for songs between 76'-81' when Tony was using the MXR100 Phaser/Chorus combo. Those swirls in the chords made it difficult to discern the proper inversions and somes proper notes.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

Those organ chord inversions are the most difficult component of this whole process!

[@odmusicman]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 And the correct inversions they make all the difference with regards to the arrangement and tonal emotion of the song

[@bretedwards2899]

How many bars of any song can a person display in KZbin as sheet music before it is considered illegal or an event that will get negative legal action?

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

That’s a great question! I am currently taking a music business class as part of my masters degree (which is partly the “genesis” of my posing these questions) and I’m adding that to my list.

[@paul_ward_music]

Personally I wouldn't. Seems like opening a Pandora's box with little to gain, but lots of potential for hassle.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

That is definitely where I land half of the time. I do want this channel to be a resource for education, but I don’t have as much time to dedicate to it as some may think. The “hassle” you reference has impacted my desire to make more videos.

[@paul_ward_music]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 Don't despair. There are many of us out here who truly appreciate what you do. It dismays me when I see YT 'tutorials' that are just plain wrong - fudging and mis-heard parts. You are the most accurate here.

[@joaquinvelazquez913]

Maybe you can have chat with Elektrik Hob? I'd guess you have seen one of his videos by now but if it's not the case, he's a guy here that does pretty spot on transcriptions of Genesis songs. And he uploads the sheet music on his youtube channel. I follow his channel and i've never seen one of his videos taken down. Maybe he could give you an insight about the situation. Because his transcriptions should be in the same situation as yours right? Also on the other hand, format wise i don't think you should worry too much. Just a double staff for piano or double manual organ, or even mellotron, any chord based intrumentation. One treble staff above it for leads. And the ocassional comments as the ones you put on your videos (and maybe take a couple "design" notes from Elektrik Hob hehe, asking for his blessing of course 😜. His scores are really easy to follow in my opinion) Mike and steve's guitar parts would be very interesting i think. There's a whole lot of "tony's" parts on youtube, and also mike's "bass" parts so one could learn from those. But purely mike and steve's "guitar" parts are rarely seen here on youtube, so it would be interesting to have a reliable transcription for figuring out those, as sometimes they're not even easy to hear on the records or bootlegs. i think, if you'd consider making them, that you'd probably be best if you made tabs. Which is a bummer because it means more work for you but one has to consider, as someone else said here, there's more "strung" players that read tabs than players that read sheet. I do consider what you said about the personal situation about not really wanting to release the "secrets" that make your show stand out from other ones. One could be too quick to say that's selfish on your part but i too have a trained ear and i can pretty much figure out stuff like this on my own. And one does feel a little bit protective about his transctiptions when you find out you can while others can't, and you want to stand out because of that. So, you'll do what you think best. Maybe the best of both worlds are videos, as the ones you make. It might be "unfair" for the people that really depend on sheet music. But i really make use of your videos, and i think that others really could too if they really analyse them and try stuff on their instrument and with their ears. Sorry for the long text! I've been a follower of your channel from the beginning i think, and i really wanted to tell you what i think this time.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

Thanks for the advice and kind words. I (maybe deliberately) don’t watch anyone else’s videos, especially Genesis covers, just to keep myself “pure” and rely as much as I can on what Genesis did. It’s probably safe to step out of my bubble.

[@orangeman1131]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 joaquinvelazquez913 makes a super important point about Elektrik Hob. He was the guy I was referring to in my post but I didn’t want to say his name. He shows every note of every one of his transcriptions and then if you send him some money, he gives access to everything he did. If you can find out his model and how he is able to do this, it should answer a lot of questions for you. Understood that you want to keep yourself pure, but in this case I would make an exception and see what he does and how he does it. I’ve never seen transcriptions of the live stuff anywhere so this would be a very valuable asset to the community.

[@mrwplay1]

Have you thought of reaching out to the guys that published King Crimson transcriptions. They might be able to give you the best legal advice/ commercial approach based on their experiences.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

That’s a great suggestion! I’m not familiar with those, but I recall that they have the endorsement of KC’s social media.

[@JasonMendelson]

I feel like I would be your #1 customer, and even I lean toward saying "don't do it." That said, maybe once you have an idea of the time and cost required, throw up a crowdfunding stretch goal. It will either 1) be worth the trouble, or 2) you'll have the evidence to show why you shouldn't. Either way, you'll know!

[@JasonMendelson]

Oh and don't bother with guitar and bass tabs. I'll get flamed for this, but an instrumentalist good enough to play these parts should be able to read sheet music. Sorry, that's just the musical Stuckist in me.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I was thinking the same thing - the bass parts by either Rutherford or Stuermer have so many ghost notes and crazy syncopated stuff, they are not for the faint of heart!

[@ADVENT_MarkPtak]

I think (at least for the sake of your band) you should change your name to Anthony. 😉

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

🤣🤣🤣

[@AiMR]

See, in my mind, you are not encroaching on any copyright unless you are physically scanning the music books and distributing PDFs. I mean, all those Genesis books are out of print... why? Not that your transcriptions aren't so much better, but is there no market for Genesis complete transcriptions? In any case, as close as your powers of transcribing are to the recordings, they are still YOUR interpretations of the music. I would really encourage musicians out there to develop their ears to the point that they can do their own transcriptions. I have a bunch of Elton and Billy Joel isolated piano recordings that I published to my channel if anyone is interested in those 😉

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I direct my students to MusicNotes.com to buy sheet music, and those arrangements are still available and they only allow a single printing, so even though the books may be out of print, they are still being sold digitally. As an educator, when a student decides they want to play the first 16 measures of a Liszt or Chopin piece poorly, it is my responsibility to direct them to more manageable beginning and intermediate classical literature so they may build those skills. So I agree with your comments about people creating their own transcriptions. If they can’t figure it out from my videos, maybe it’s out of reach in general? I love when students discover things on their own and improve upon the resources by digging in. Case in point: I have an official Billy Joel transcription book, and let my students use it in class. Joel is my favorite artist since I started taking lessons as a five year old, but I’ve never A/B-ed that book. One of my students this year compared You Tube isolated piano tracks (maybe yours?) and found tons of misinterpretations. That is so cool!

[@AiMR]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 The only way a transcriptions book should ideally be created is by the original artist going into a studio and playing a MIDI piano. But even if Billy did that, I know HE doesn't even play them like the record. Ever see the version of "The Stranger" he plays on "Live from Long Island"? On another note, the studio side of "Three Sides Live" is my favorite album side of all time, but I can't find the music for it. I figured out most of it, but I would LOVE to see it in print just as a reality check. I even bought the songbook on eBay and was disappointed to find it was 4 sides live :p While I have your attention, I was wondering if you knew offhand what synth Genesis was using for the 'voices' in the chorus sections of 'You Might Recall'? Thanks Matt for all the inspiring videos. People need to see that their ears can be developed with just a bit of persistence and just about anything can be figured out 👍