Pyro Will Be More Than Just A Killing Playground (Ft. VoiDude) | Launch Sequence Podcast

With the first preview of the Pyro channel complete, many players are wondering how much fo the gameplay seen is what the system actually aims to achieve. Over the years, and especially at the most previous CitizenCon, CIG has made clear what they want this new frontier system to be. @VoidyVids tends to er on the side of my…Pyro-like gameplay, so I thought I’d have him on to talk about how CIG’s vision or Pyro translates to him, and how much different Pyro and even future systems might be from what people expect.
Today’s Guests:
VoiDude
KZbin: / voidyvids
Twitter: / voidy_says
ToC:
00:00 Introductions
05:00 What is Pyro Meant to Be?
23:10 Your Perfect Gameplay
35:30 Your Perfect Star System?
43:30 The VoiDude Special
51:00 What is Piracy Gameplay?
59:30 How Does Pyro Affect Stanton
01:09:40 Final Feelings Anout Pyro
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[@bladioYT]

How is Voidy simultaneously a deadly pirate-drug-smuggler, and someone I'd be happy to bring home and introduce to my mom

[@randlebrowne2048]

Keep in mind that mafia bosses tended to be popular in their neighborhoods. Serial killers also tend to be thought of as such nice people by neighbors who don't know about their hobbies as well!

[@flashbackflip]

NYX is in the jump chain = Sranton - Pyro - Nyx - Odin CIG chose wisely as with such a chain they test different law systems and also - use assets for SQ42 (happening in Odin) rather sooner than later

[@flashbackflip]

@@Sukhoi_01 🤣🤣🤣👍 indeed

[@FWleader]

28:06 This was my first thought when they talked about maps and the beginning of data gameplay, if it's stored on your person/in your mobiglass, why couldn't a hostile download it off you. Bounties could become super lucrative if you can turn around and sell the location of someone's base while they're in jail.

[@Afogel0126]

In a lot of sci-fi they talk about scuttling the ship to prevent nav data being stolen I was hoping it would be something that would be physicalized so that way players would be forced to choose to scuttle the ship or take the data and try to run

[@FWleader]

@@Afogel0126 They've talked about having different mobiglass software too, a dead man's switch for mobiglass map data would be pretty cool.

[@Texas240]

27:06 in games like Arma 3 and DayZ with huge maps and persistent player objects, like vehicles or backpacks, you think you hid it in an out of the way place and in a bush but someone always finds it just by happening along and serendipitously discovering your random, out of the way, nobody will look here hiding spot.

[@catfunt5583]

It’s cheaters. They just have to be in the general area. Rust has those stashes. As a legit player, how many stashes have you found? Cheaters love digging those up

[@fhart85]

I would like to see something like... You can only carry weapons at the pyro station if you have high enough rep with whatever faction controls it. Otherwise you cannot take weapons into their station. Much like I'd like to see if you earn high enough rep with Crusader security, you can safely trespass on their properties, or carry weapons into Lorville.

[@user-bs8xe4dy1i]

On the subject of bases, I would love to see it setup where it makes more sense to take over bases than destroy them, then if they added base recovery systems where you have some advantage while re-claiming the base that you constructed, like remotely activatable interior defenses and systems which cannot be quickly or easily hijacked so they are difficult for invaders to hold against the original owner. Like computer control systems which remain loyal to the original owner.

[@miinyoo]

Base building! Always fun to have a home where you can do anything; build upon it and PvP to keep it with intel chans of an ad-hoc group of small orgs that pledge to defend each other. Kinda like Rust with space ships. Must mitigate offline -- someone wanders along and blows up your stuff -- is something to work out to avoid the "Bat" phone thing which is annoying. Otherwise, just a fun social and solo experience that really gets you invested in the outcome.

[@AsuraDandy]

I saw a post on spectrum about 27:40 cause when they revealed the new UI elements and the new map, it showed the coordinates as well and the post highlighted that the coordinates should be removed, because someone could just take those coordinates and just post it on discord or reddit or whatever 3rd party to forever display someone's base or something. Having it removed would make what was said at 27:40 more feasible because that data would indeed be logged in their nav map and would actually be valuable commodity.

[@Capt_Trash_Panda]

Jared's expression, demeaner and the words he uses in the latest ISC tells you everything you need to know about how CIG feels about ganking and just killing for the sake of killing. "You had the option"... The Gankers will ruin the game for all of PvPers and many more safe zones will be placed, Even in "Lawless" systems. No dev wants what happened in Pyro to happen. Even games that are 100% PvP don't allow spawn camping. As a Salvage player I want PvP to be in the game. The chance to get killed and loose my loot is what makes it thrilling to cash in when I do. If I don't have to worry about getting killed then I have zero risk and cashing in is Meh.

[@witchspacetv]

"catalyzes" - that's a like right there for using it in conversation! Great chat folks

[@Zach-rw6jf]

Even in a lawless place, people don't just kill others because they fear the consequences. They fear their friends coming for revenge, they fear "what if I've underestimated this person and they kill me instead", because they value their own life. Until we truly value our life in Star Citizen, nobody will show self restraint in a lawless place.

[@cb_the_kirb]

This is a big problem with video games in general, it's incredibly hard to incentivize survival-based behavior because respawning is almost always a valid option. I'm curious to see how OWI implements things to address that, but at some point there will always be players who shoot first because getting back to a shoot first position is always pretty easy.

[@TheHeliommm]

I dont think it can be written off as "oh yeah reputation will fix everything" I see what matters as what IS delivered vs what someday COULD be delivered, and what WAS delivered held no interest for me. I love that its a murderhobo paradise, because that kept those players out of Stanton if only for a few days and it made the game SIGNIFICANTLY more enjoyable, like noticeably more fun without those people all over the place, because they were turning Pyro into a hellhole. It certainly has to do with Devs ability to compromise player playstyles with griefers ability to do as they please, and putting their selfish desire to kill over the majority of player's interest in doing any other gameplay loop.

[@skyeranger]

Those players will not stay in Pyro, they will come back to Stanton because if there are only murderhobos in Pyro the murderhobos become victims themselves and that takes the fun out of it for them.

[@CitizenScott]

yall rly have no idea what motivates "murderhobos" at all...

[@TheHeliommm]

@@CitizenScott i think youre equating murderhobos and competitive players together. People who enjoy pvp are not murderhobos. Enjoying a fight is not the same as enjoying harrassment. Unfortunately yes a lot of them will return to stanton as the Pyro novelty wears off. The goal being that being a murderhobo anywhere but the dedicated PVP-centric system becomes less and less appealing, via Game design and systems that make it less easy to murder everything and everyone and then come right back in 10 mins and do it again.

[@CitizenScott]

@@TheHeliommm I think u don’t know wtf ur talking about… I get called “murderhobo griefer” constantly bub… I got my reasons but no one ever asks… they just cry about dying… but hey stay ignorant be my guest

[@TheHeliommm]

@@CitizenScott crazy thought, have you ever; and this is hard but bear with me, ever wondered why you get called that? Like you ever try to stop and think, maybe introspect on what the common denominator is in those scenarioes? It's You. No one asks your motivations because it usually boils down to either personal insecurities or sociopathy. What are Your motivations? Go ahead; im listening. Youre secretly making all our lives better? Youre doing it for the common good? Youre some sort of masked vigilante? What reason do You have thats so good or deep or intelligent that it justifies whatever action lead to people calling You a murderhobo? Go ahead friend, step into the ring.

[@c-mcd7618]

The factions need to respond to those causing trouble in their territory such that spawn campers get taken out by the AI.

[@TeslaOsiris]

Yea but the reason policing like that works in real life is you can’t log an alt IRL. Griefing and ganking almost always happens on alt accounts, so even AI policing won’t stop this behavior.

[@markr4404]

@@TeslaOsirisIf they can't use the alt accounts because after they acquire enough bad rep they can't get to their target alive; it can put a end to it after a while. But it requires the rep for being a murder-hobo to stick and there has to be large enough bounties on them for every player (or most every player) in the system to be after them. They can't just go away for a few hours and come back. It needs to stick for weeks or months.

[@Khornebrzrkr1]

Alright, finally time to drop my hot pyro take. The amount of pvp that occurred there in the recent demo was blown up beyond normal portions because pyro is the new thing, and also the first and currently only free-for-all area in the PU. When its novelty wears off, and especially when other systems come in with similar openness, it’ll become less of a killing field. VoiDude is right.

[@JasonGranzow]

With all the Eve comparisons I have a different take. Pyro is not Null sec. Pyro is low sec. Stanton is mid tier sec. My reasoning for this is because majority of the systems yet to come are uninhabited, with absolutely zero infrastructure there. Those systems are null sec.

[@sidewithwerewolves]

There wont be a good 1:1 security status comparison between sc and eve, but referencing it sums up the single shard danger level players deal with, not necessarily player built infrastructure vs. Npc infrastructure

[@JasonGranzow]

​@@sidewithwerewolves Yah, with SC the security level is more abstract then it is in Eve. Which I like, it's on the player to figure it out. Currently it's one of the easiest things to draw a connection to so it's quickly and easily understood by most players. The shard though won't have a danger level. the shard is the collection of solar systems that makes up the galaxy. Each solar system is where we make the "security level" reference. Not the shard level. We would only start doing that if they start making PvP, PvE, PvEvP, ect... similar to something like WoW or Elite Dangerous. Which I hope doesn't happen.

[@Cadehighhill]

We should have faction "prisons" easy ish to escape, but if you have bad reputation with a faction and they kill you you respawn in their station brig and have to escape

[@Grimshak81]

Sadly, Pyro was just a killing ground where players got fragged the moment they stepped out of their habitaiton bunk. Biggest problem: it completely destroys the immersion if on a massive space station there is no law but anarchy. That simply doesnt work. There is no airport in the world where anarchy exists. Because when the order disappears, the airport disappears. Not having at least one station in Pyro with an armistice zone was a letdown, many people didnt even try to log in in the first place.

[@korbentherhino]

I mean its a test ground. When peoples stuff matters on PU itll be different.

[@moondogg_monte]

Wonderful that this won't be released Live until server meshing divides the server load, and people Have To enter Pyro through the jump system instead of just materializing in a bed. At least, that's the standard I hold CIG to give us.

[@reginadea2821]

The fact that CIG even thought that this wouldn't happen is quite an eye-rolling moment. But then again, these are the guys who had an overdose mechanic and allowed meds to be used in armistice zones, and didn't put two and two together on how that could be abused like everyone else did.

[@CitizenScott]

sorry for your skill issue

[@Texas240]

8:10 VoiDude describing the original vision of the Arma DayZ mod dev who was later contracted to head development of the stand alone game and why the dev quit. He didn't want to make Call of Duty or PubG with zombies. In the end, it just shows man is the more problematic threat. It's like watching shark vids where people will comment how horrible shark attacks are and yet sharks only kill about 10 humans per year while humans kill over 100 million sharks each year and humans kill hundreds of thousands of humans each year, if not millions, through murder, vehicle collisions, war, etc. It's a very unnatural thing for humans to not be the greatest threat to...humans. How do you make a game environment where I'll want to trade you a can of beans for the magazine that you have, which fits my weapon, instead of just clubbing you with the can of beans and taking my pick of your stuff without having to worry about you being a threat? Ideally, in an outlaw system, you'd have "civilians" players making fuel, weapons, food, etc and they'd be off limits to combat because the outlaws need those things and can't freely trade in normal systems. But, if everyone can be self sufficient or just respawn, the outlaw player economy won't take root and that type of system will just be a Call of Duty system. 10:55 speaking of the wild west, a big reason I gave up on Red Dead Redemption was because of getting killed by players, in town, whenever I went to town. God forbid, they didn't get me in the 1st shot and I fought back, I'm a criminal for defending myself. That game could've benefited from an armistice zone.

[@staceybertran52]

Following up on what VoiDude was saying. I believe that if Certain outposts on the planets around Pyro were also the governing body for that area. Control of these assets would allow for control of any resources mined on the planet or the moons around it. The resource could be so important and it would cause many wars for control of it. Taking a line from DUNE. whoever controls the spice is the victor.

[@davidpitman9941]

The biggest problem with Nyx is that you have to go through the PVP hellhole that is Pyro to get to it... Guess I might be waiting for Magnus...

[@Texas240]

0:14 after hearing him speak, I think his moniker is more "vwa" dude than "vo-ee" dude. Although he could be going for quad meaning, void dude, see dude, see dude in the void? On further listening I guess he's more South African than the French he initially sounded like

[@ikkeheltvanlig]

Voidy is touching on something I think would have made CIGs life so much easier. The game looks polished at first glance which sets expectations. I understand pretty things open wallets, but I have long thought that they should have let placeholders be obvious placeholders - textured with the "transparent png" checkers pattern, reminding you that it is in development, under construction. Just the things that are literal placeholders, such as to-be physical ship components for example. Yes it would break suspension of disbelief. But 30Ks, broken missions, unresponsive doors etc already do but they would have been less infuriating for uninitiated players if they had "soft reminders" along the way

[@OldManGibb]

Well I'm batting a -1000 on this live streaming thing this week. Our power dropped, ELE comp shows 11:45pm to be back up. I am so sry Y;all. Thank you so much for your love and support.

[@revengexmoon2087]

Pyro is a noob kill box. There is no way around it. Noobs will lose everything if they go there. I know what it's like to lose. To feel so desperately that you're right, yet to fail nonetheless. It's frightening. Turns the legs to jelly. I ask you, to what end? Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. And now, it's here. Their deaths are inevitable.

[@midwestisbest1]

Time for CIG to officially rename Checkmate to 'Checkbook' Station.

[@Elars04]

There are plenty of times in Battlefield that you could spawn camp a lesser team and people back off to let them start fighting again. It's still on the players spawn camping. Kind of funny to just give them a complete pass because "they can".

[@Loco_Da_Ryder]

The thing voidy talkin about with ppl banding together will in my mind be systems where we at war with alien 👽 races all npc there attack players

[@OrniasDMF]

Vanduul systems could be the ones that unite us

[@Dorm_]

Boatymcboatfacetomatopodcast! :D loved it!

[@Texas240]

1:03:28 I'm not sure how Stanton is these days haven't played in a couple years, but Grim Hex used to be like that. You could blast people on the station

[@rixxy9204]

Too many ships? Not really. That's like asking the auto business Can we sell too many cars? More choices and sale options is always a bonus, especially for CIG. I don't totally blame them either... if we follow the game lore, each manufacturer will always try to have a model of ship that is a feature of theirs, but also potentially build a competing ship to it's neighboring manufacturer. Works the same in real life, so why would CIG do it any differently.

[@spryonederonin3645]

I think there are alot of great ideas here but until server stability gets better its going to be hard.

[@ikkeheltvanlig]

Imagine if they get full on server meshing working within a year, Gen12 working as well, giving us actual good performances

[@JamestheKilljoy]

Pyro will be fine, just needs some tweeks. When we have high security star systems that are safe for the new players and the baby players, they will have plenty of safe zones to play in and systems like Pyro will be for the players looking for more action. They are already working on those star systems right now

[@Cheesebread42]

visual diversity in pyro etc. -- I expect they need to reign in the scope. Each system having a flavor is still a huge scope. Each station having a sub flavor is a lot of additional scope. I don't think they won't iterate on this down the road.

[@TerkanTyr]

The _"old men strongly dislike ganking and want to prevent it"_ trope is pretty well established, as far as I've seen in SC communities. They really don't like the _"quick respawn jump into the first PvP opportunity and keep chasing kills until you die"_ playstyle. They prefer sitting in a group chat talking about their wives and lives while planning some slow nonsense, and if a pirate shows up they want to chat and make a deal and make it easy for them and get to keep a tenth of their shit.

[@theamericanaromantic]

The rewards are not currently enough in Pyro to justify the risks.

[@mattiber2558]

Tomato and Paul, as the Verse continues to expand, travel will spread,and travel will be, whether I'm solo hauling or on a MSR, places need regular consumer traffic, I don't think one will constantly be running into Pirates. Look at the many countries that have war/Factions etc, yet still have commerce. Still no way for the Star Citizens to bring forth the economy themselvea? I imagine the Economy will be severely nerfed in order to have the Star Citizens run all the different careers that will require longer work hours for lower payout results, so 1.7 mil UEC is valued and not the results of a 30 minute "Cargo Haul, Salvaging, Bounty Hunt, etc

[@anthonyjorg2656]

I hope this game and C.I.G. bring the focus of people playing it out of their ships a bit more to enrich the environement a lot. The time they plan to use their staff for is principally the backlog of ships for now : the money maker of the compagny. Some day this income will dry up for CIG and then they must finish the enormously empty worlds they build. Maybe they will let players be their world builders but we must have a bank of millions of assets to do something looking the high grade of Star Citizen.

[@DriftaholiC]

The fact that the best part is making money post wipe is why it needs to be harder to keep the ships running. I want the Han Solo scraping by struggle of keeping the Falcon going.. It's too easy to just reair, rearm, refuel all and not care about it.

[@Freidenker01]

I just wanted to comment on the beginning to "a world without a techpreview pyro or a world with zero pyro" and to that it might feel old when it finally comes out because of the techpreview. Well, not EVERYBODY got to play it (me for example). So for me it is a world with zero pyro anyways (basically from my point of view it's just more videos of pyro, as before) and also that's the reason why I stopped watching pyro-videos of content creators, because I don't want it to feel old news to me once I will be able to experience it myself.

[@TheIceJester]

I hope you're right because the playtest was totally horrible. This turned off 80% of the Star Citizen community. PYRO TEST = Griefer Paradise

[@gruller65offroad96]

People will calm down after awhile it wasn’t up long enough for everything to level off

[@Nykandros]

People in SC always whine about PVP tho, have been for a decade. They'll come back while crying about private servers, as per usual

[@rtek777]

It should turn off carebears. Pyro is lawless not lawful.

[@geekadventureteam7806]

The Playtest was great, in my opinion. And I'm not a PvPer. The fact is that there will be places in this game that are going to be extremely dangerous to go to and not everyone is going to have fun there but there will also be places that are almost completely safe and again not everyone is going to have fun in those places either. This has always been the intended design. When the game goes live I know I won't be going to places like Pyro unless there is something I feel I absolutely need there and when I do I am going to bring friends and be prepared for an uphill battle and honestly I don't want that to change.

[@sidewithwerewolves]

Players, especially concierge and those who want to play star citizen like a single player game need to realize the pyro test worked as intended and found a major exploit in hab camping. Moreover as far back as 2015, there were plenty 1p for the chairmen and other gameplay loop design documents that described star citizen as becoming an fps successor to eve online. Lots of people gonna feel the pinch when its single shard gameplay and you either group up in an org or you're never gonna be able to play SC like a eurotruck farming simulator with other players as super dynamic npcs. Sometimes seeing whale and carebear tears on reddit is reward enough for spending 48hrs in klescher every week

[@TheHeliommm]

You sound like a real fun person to be around. Here's hoping all those hours in klescher eventually actually rehabilitate You.

[@BobWobbles]

With the rep system, the AI is going to have to improve out of sight for it to be a deterrent to murder hoboing. Even a very average player is more than a match for a group of NPC's on most days.

[@relint12]

Reputation will work to an extent. You just have to look at player behavior in Stanton vs Pyro to see the difference between a regulated and lawless system. And that’s with just the threat of temporarily losing access to stations and going to Klescher. Once there is long term reputation tracking it’ll become almost a form of credit. There will still be folks creating burner characters to engage in ‘no rep’ piracy / pad ramming / trolling but you’ll be able to tell they are new characters with no ‘street cred / reputation’ that should not be trusted. Put player organizations on top of this and you should also see some self policing similar to Eve. This is what I see Lawless space turning into where player orgs setup shop, collaborate and manage system access.

[@Banzai51]

CIG just had their New World Alpha moment, but they're too blind to see it.

[@Citizen_Slambo]

oh one gajillion agree on the sense of entitlement-

[@threesixtysafari2115]

I just want to know if all those tattoos you get with the rough n ready faction can be removed. I don't want to have a bunch of tattoos on me forever. What if I join another faction? Are they going to flay my skin off? I guess if we have clone regeneration we should have skin regeneration too.

[@DennisSheltonjr]

The biggest thing that's being missed here by a lot of people this is a null sec area. Whether it has reputations or anything else, it's still nelsack. And an Eve you had to go through high sec to get to nalsack. In the preview you didn't have to go through high sec to get to null sec you could just spawn there. I think that's part of the problem people didn't have to go there so they got engaged cuz you're not always going to have reputation with everybody. Play Eve for a little while.

[@chrishoppner150]

Honestly, fuck Eve. If I wanted Eve, I would still be playing. I’ve done 12 years of that. I don’t want first person Eve.

[@SoLRAace]

​@@chrishoppner150then press f4 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@DennisSheltonjr]

@@chrishoppner150 Well, I guess high sec or mid like Stanton will be a good place for you then. I think they need to leave things as they have planned. If you dont like it, dont go there. Simple. High risk areas are not for everyone or every org. There will be enuf places eventually. This was part of the game design when it changed to an MMO.

[@chrishoppner150]

@@DennisSheltonjr That's not what I mean at all. Spare me the "dear carebear, thou shoult stayeth in thy castle" routine lol It's been a while since I quit Eve. But back when, highsec was by far the most dangerous place in the game. A minefield of obscure rules abused by griefers to bait others into getting killed by Concord. Pointless wardecs aimed at just getting people to stop playing. Suicide ganks designed by cost/benefit spreadsheets. Nullsec was pretty much entirely dead or occupied by PvE krabbers, unless there was a scheduled fleet operation somewhere. Lowsec saw some mild activity in funnel systems, but not much else. Gate camps were the worst, from both sides of the guns. This is what you want? Fuck that. There's a good reason I quit Eve.

[@Nykandros]

@@chrishoppner150 If you don't want first person EVE, you're playing the wrong game. CIG themselves have said they want SC to be to EVE what COD was to Medal of Honor. "An MMO with an Emphasis on risk-reward and personal responsibility for safety, High>low security areas, Players are not limited in their actions, but may face punishment after the fact, Complex economy that reflects supply and demand, Players able to stake and brawl over valuable territory, Piracy & war as embraced primary gameplay pillars, Architecture to support grand battles with significant number of players, Loss of physical goods on death underpinned by an insurance system, Bubble and direct interdiction tackle/interdiction system, emphasis on player organizations, Mining, Salvaging, "Ratting", Mercenary & Pirate careers as primary pillars, Capital-subcapital dynamics, dysmorphic ship balancing." Is this referring to EVE or Star Citizen?

[@atrior7290]

Using a bounty hunter ship as a pirate to capture people and ask their org for rancom

[@Texas240]

14:20 as with everything Star Citizen, the information is there, it's just buried in too much information or requires analysis and critical thinking to draw conclusions. According to the system wiki, Pyro is one of only a handful of systems that were fully settled by humanity. The real outlaw systems will be the ones that are further out and more and more sparsely settled.

[@captain-hooked]

Imo a solution to the PVP griefing in star citizen is to not be able to tell NPCs and players apart. If the griefers don't know if it's a player or NPC, why would they bother trying to inflict emotional damage? Same for PVE players, if the AI can be as realistic and skilled as an actual player, and you have "griefing" NPCs that you literally cannot tell if they are a player or not, what's the difference?

[@ufeelinselfrighteous8470]

people and PVP. so, like all "sandboxes", if players dont have engaging things to do.... they devolve into monkeys. THE BIGGEST problem with Pyro is.... ITS A TECH DEMO. This should be an unpleasant reminder to CIG that if they dont stop making concept ship work debt and actually start banging out gameplay loops, that "spawnkilling" is the inevitable outcome

[@GotWeez]

Burning the midnight oil, yeah?

[@brentschmogbert]

?

[@mabs9503]

That would be ill advised.

[@RatikusuCh]

He did this podcast after his livestream during the day. It just released at night.

[@Schimyping]

Pyro will become nothing more than a grave yard for people with death wishes. Humans are naturally bloodthirsty when left unchecked, therefore knowing that there is no punishment for killing in Pyro, eventually all of the bloodthirsty players will flock there to kill. Eventually the players who just want to play the game will stop going to Pyro, and then there will be no prey for the hunters and Pyro will be come the "Tatooine" of the Star Citizen universe where only scum and villainy reside. Pyro will eventually become the system it has become in lore... A criminal cesspool.

[@falmatrix2r]

Only time will tell if CIG figures out the PVP/PVE balance, if they don’t, it might just end up like in GTA Online with a passive mode to make non-PVP players happy and still have a group of people that buys into the game

[@ufeelinselfrighteous8470]

the "balance" you speak of will come when players have actual professions, better gameplay loops, and meaning to go to pyro other than "shiny new toy"

[@falmatrix2r]

@@ufeelinselfrighteous8470 like I said, time will tell

[@Cheesebread42]

"day Z devolving into COD on a really big map" I have to laugh because that's what happened to AMC The Walking Dead, they couldn't make umpteen seasons of Zombies interesting enough so it became just another human vs human drama with a zombie window dressing.

[@CosmicD]

9:40 I don't agree with this premise at all. To blame the level desingers for people spawn camping is kind of a cop out for player's own behaviour. I've always found it weird how the "incentive" of teamkilling or spawn camping is projected onto something else than yourself. If level designers want to tell an environmental story with a structure of a space station like Patch City, they can never design around people willfully and mindlessly pull the trigger on other people, you might as well just design a box and call it a day, not creating any door or gate passages too you know, because people might stand in a blind corner and shoot you. And believe me, they do. If they can't spawn camp you and you start hiding and avoiding them, they will use tactics just to kill you anyway. I've played the preview several times and when this particular gang of people were active, they just get in front of you like a jack out of the box from a little cabinet in the corner further on in the station if they couldn't kill you right out of the hab. It's the lack of armistice zones that inevitably will make people spawncamp, "because they can", and not because the level is designed a certain way. Does that mean that I would want pyro to have green zones like stanton ? No, I actually would like there to be places where these types of players can go and cause mayhem. It's just not for me, and I don't find that sort of gameplay particularly interesting. It's boring in fact and you're sucked into it by players who put you in the defensive and reduce the game to "you get to move out of this room when you manage to get past me". This sort of behaviour is taking any game hostage, whatever you design. Not much "gameplay incentives" will avoid this behaviour. Indeed, the only thing that will deter spawncamping or FFA behaviour somewhat (by lack of any green zones), is reputation or reactive security AI (or in Pyro's case, tribe AI) that will protect you because you belong to their side. And still then, players who enjoy that kind of behaviour will find a way to grief others. Players even grief and teamkill in a game that is designed for coop gameplay and act like it's call of duty. The only way you can deter these people obsessed by that style of play, is to simply disable friendly fire, or discipline them. (I immediately ban them from my left 4 dead server for example, I've went through this for years in that game. Players who have no desire to play in a serious way just kill everything on sight. And if in star citizen, pyro remains like it is, it will be griefer paradise, no matter how the levels are designed. Because quite a few players have a total disregard for anything else. It was so bad that I just decided to get out of my hab in my my underwear and run around the station that way until I called my ship and went to my hangar. There's simply nothing to loot, I would only start equipping myself when I was in my hangar, in my ship. Still there were people who would just shoot me while in my underwear. You could say that has anything to do with level design. I'm sorry for the slightly allergic reaction but this is something that infuriates me to no end. You know, people with a FFA deathmatch mindset who want to turn every game into "call of duty" or "quake arena" will not be deterred in any way except when they are repeatedly be overclassed by others. It will ultimately be the punishments by reputation and bounties placed on their head that'll make them leave. Because the "shooting everything on sight" is the only reason they're there, they're going to be bored the moment that is taken away from them. Spawn campers and griefers have a very one dimensional selfcentered way of viewing the gamepspace they're placed in and don't mind the narrative or roleplay aspects. Whenever there's free form sandbox gameplay, all that goes up in flames, look at GTA5 multiplayer. Beyond the organized missions and heists, all ppl do is just "eliminate everything in sight". So yes, with a lack of armastice zones, CiG better gets the tribe and faction system running perfectly so there can be consequences gameplay for people who obsessively spawncamp or reduce any situation to "pew pew".

[@B.D.E.]

Nah, good design prevents exploits and foul play/abuse of systems. Especially in a game like this. Chaos is fine in a casual party game.

[@Grimshak81]

sorry but if there is a possibility to spawn camp, some players will ALWAYS exploit that. ONLY the developer can counter this and its a copout to blame players for being players. CIG needs to fix that or only a fraction of backers will ever set a foot into Pyro. Which would be a massive waste of resources.

[@p4ulieamatin157]

Reputation could be the key to solve spawn camping. If both players will have the reputation with the faction controlling the station, one player killing another will suffer the reputation loss, which will create a bounty mission on the killer, also all NPC guards would turn on him. With proper server performance and AI running correctly, the killer could maybe evade some of them, but will be ultimatelly killed. With landing privileges revoked due to poor or negative reputation, he would have hard time to get back to the station. If he has spawn point set to the station, it would also be revoked. If he has bad reputation with all the Pyro factions, he wont be able to spawn in Pyro at all.

[@Gnarfendorf]

Why do people try to shove the blame on cig when they are the ones actually doing the spawncamping? Its not cigs fault that some players are just singleminded douches that get their kicks by shooting spermsuits or naked ppl. And iirc testing the ttk on fresh meat was not the purpose of the playtest, so stop making excuses for murderhobos.

[@DamonCzanik]

I played Pyro and had set my spawn Patch City. I wasn't griefed or shot there even outside the station. I think people are overreacting to the griefing thing. It's still an issue that should be dealt with. But if there's one thing this community is great at, it's completely overreacting. I couldn't tell you the last time I was griefed or even pirated and I play A LOT.

[@Tainted-Soul]

I have a lot of money in this game Far too much but I dont have this feelings If i rock up in a 600i and someone turns up in a Arrow or a sabre and flies rings around me . I just feel like I need a gunner LOL I just would like there to be a reason why not just cause they can. i got an Idea with this data mission Just think if they was hacking player bank accounts for cash and the only way to stop them is to go there and stop them LOL as long as they cant empty players account may be a 20% from each player on the server at the time . they get notified that the accounts getting hacked and from this location . You want PVP you will have it LOL

[@Cheesebread42]

"blaming the level design" -- Teamfortress Classic Dustbowl and grenade spam. Dont hate the player, the game was literally just seeing which team ran out of grenades at chokepoints. CIG needs to avoid the pitfalls games discovered 20 years ago

[@CitizenScott]

if i cant jump to pyro then it 's not in the game... it was never delivered... it doesn't exist

[@benbowman6995]

I really don't like Voidude viewpoint, that it's CIG's fault you can spawn camp and those who participate in this behavior are just being normal people and that is okay. My Mother used to tell me when I was growing up, "Two wrongs, don't make a right". Just because you can behave badly doesn't mean you should, or that others should just get over it. CIG has made clear through Employees such as Jared Huckabee, that they have given us as much free agency as possible, what we do with it is on us. And the Piracy you guys talked about, I think you guys are confusing Piracy with Privateering. Two very different things, historically Pirates were all either killed on site or executed in public later, as pirates were not nice people at all and generally despised by all. Privateers were different in that only other nations or groups despised them and they didn't typically kill everyone they stole from as that wasn't the goal. Pirates quite often killed everyone to leave no witnesses to identify them later, as they would then be executed for their crimes. There were of course exceptions to all this, but in general, it was like this.

[@enth1980]

Why do not more discuss the fact that one server is barely able to handle stanton, obviously one server cant handle the entire Pyro being much bigger. Hence we only got «half» of Pyro, awaiting server meshing

[@B.D.E.]

Maybe because we've already been cued to expect Pyro to arrive with server meshing by CIG for a long time now. They made that clear, unless they said otherwise since.

[@ncpolley]

1:01:00 nah lets stop this. CIG doesnt have to force people to sign a document for fair play to be an expectation. You can expect better from people. You can also expect devs to respond. If you are ruining someone elses experience through your spawn camping shit, yes its your fault. Unlike, COD, the obj isnt to kill the other players. You *chose* to make that your obj. Tbh, I think that asymmetrical death penalties could be a thing. Lets postulate different kinds of crime stats. One for most people (trespassing, drugs, etc) and one for murder. Murder crime stat cannot be erased. It only deteriorates with time. If you kill a player in PvP, the player who died without that crime stat gets a grace period. No penalties to cancelled contracts, a return of all personal items (as if they had logged out). If you die with a crime stat, you die as you would normally, maybe with an additional penalty. Your weapons might get confiscated. Or: this is a BIG IF, your ship gets impounded and you have to pay to get it back, or break it out of where its kept. Or maybe just the guns on it are confiscated. Or no lawful station will sell you ammunition.

[@Cmoth040]

Piracy, the criminal element, is necessary for the game's success. Even the occasional homicidal lunatic, would be a bit of fun. But if too many players are playing like a homicidal lunatic, it's no longer the game it was intended. It's no longer fun for the majority of player/ investors. It's just a really pretty PubG, and it the game will have no longevity. The players who play like psychos are like locust. They show up, ruin a good time, and then move on to the next title. Rinse and repeat.

[@OrishiBlackMoses]

You guys seems like you want to be more positive about people and game play, but the thing is once this section of space has been declared PVP it will now and forever be full blown PVP until people move on or tire of it. The game is big and you will escape the PVP at times but mostly your dead. The game will definitely go the way of EvE Online to GTA V Online public lobby, but I'm just an opinion right or wrong also.I could be somewhat off, but people love to pack up and kill what seems to be the Weaker person when rules are basically out the window.

[@TruthIsKey369]

People actually whining about griefers and PvP...... there is a solution for that, preparations

[@TeslaOsiris]

The reason why spawn camping is a no-no in almost every game is because you CANNOT prepare for it.

[@bloodstoneoperator5372]

Entitlement my ass. I’m a low entry cost player. I’m not into non consensual pvp. I’m not entitled, there’s arena commander for these people to go beat their pvp meat. They can arrange in chat. Getting griefed to the point of not being able to get things done is bs.

[@0Metatron]

No such thing as “nonconsensual” PVP in Star Citizen Voidude absolutely nailed it with the entitlement thing, too many people have the entitled view that they’re the main character in this multiplayer game!! This game is not just about pretty ships and the people who are here just for that are ordering macaroni cheese and trying to just eat the pasta and leave the sauce: It’s not going to be possible 100% of the time!!

[@MrDashpilot]

First

[@MikePhilbin1966]

EVERYTHING VoiDude says has nothing to do with Best Damn Space Sim... he's only referring to a COD sub-set of Piracy, as a game. But that's not this game... allegedly. It's supposed to be Second Life, but sci-fi.

[@Whoadayson]

Such a vast and visually stunning system to be wasted on the heavy minority of players who have no originality or imagination so all the do is salt mine in global. Its not PvP! It definately wasnt to hone skills or pirate, which Im glad to have in game, but how does waiting for ppl to get outve their ship to attack do anything for anyone? Thats pathetic. Even still, Im fine with that being in Pyro, as long as there is some form of tracking these actions, even if its just a notice send out like a bounty, but w/o pay. Id hunt them all frickin night for free!

[@Whoadayson]

Its always interesting, although predictable, to see how the anonimity of the net alters how ppl act vs IRL. Thats fully due to zero consequences!!!