Girl Defined's Guide To Cis White Love

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Hi all, today we're reviewing and critiquing Part 1 of Girl Defined's second book, Love Defined: Embracing God's Vision for Lasting Love and Satisfying Relationships by Kristen Clark and Bethany Beal.
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[@RachelOates]

Established Titles is running a big sale right now, and if you use the code "LadyOates" you get an additional 10% off. Go to EstablishedTitles.com/LadyOates to get your gifts now.

[@brunetteartist24]

This ad was absolutely adorable, pls inform kyra she makes a very fine lady indeed

[@geraintthomas4343]

I was here for the full kyra clip!

[@paulabarboza326]

This ad made my day, seeing a dog so happy will always make me happy

[@AirIsntAyotuber]

I love you but Scottish officials have come out against companies like these saying you will not officially be recognized as a Lord or Lady. It’s misleading advertising and I really don’t think you should be promoting them but pls more Kyra ads shes so cute

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

@A Valiant Toaster Lairdship sounds like "lordship" with either some kind of drunken or UK accent, so I think you should go with that 😆

[@sydney.mp4]

for being called "girl defined" they sure don't define a lot of things😭

[@LovelyChicable]

All the defining is done by god 🥲🥲🥲

[@lizcolavecchio9561]

They sure are also full adult WOMEN

[@vinceradical8910]

most of it is just misinterpreted bible drivel. which is confusing, because everything in the bible is drivel. and they have an even more skewed vision of "godly behaviour" Somehow?

[@kimberlyaustin7030]

😄 🤣

[@LamisonJamison]

@@lizcolavecchio9561 We know the men who watch their channel want "girls". Just pandering to their demographic.

[@michiyaslana5974]

I'll never forget an interview with an elderly Catholic lady I once read: she was abused by her husband for their entire married life, right up to the time he died. The interviewer asked, "why'd you not divorce him?". Her answer was "I thought about killing him, but divorce? That's unthinkable!" God I'm glad our society gets divorced more now.

[@mags_9532]

I was talking to a family member about their relationship with their partner of 30 years. I asked "do they know that you're thinking about leaving" and they were shocked and said that they would never tell their partner. I'm like "you'd rather they just found out when you leave?"...they deserve to know what is going on. Talking about hard things is hard but avoiding is even worse.

[@batking4342]

Killing is against the 10 commandments. Divorce is not. So what???

[@phoenix5719]

Back in the days where women's rights wasn't a thing, women actually used to kill their abusive husbands through poisoning. There is a famous lady who ran a lucrative poison business for such ladies who later was sentenced.

[@lalalamaddalena]

Well I guess she could've gotten away with murder, but divorce? She would've been an outcast.

[@mozorellastick2583]

@@batking4342 it's not abt the religion it's abt the culture

[@aaronshropshire8552]

I hate the term "failed relationship/marriage". Plenty of relationships should end.

[@michiganscythian2445]

I’ve parted ways with several exes amicably. I even crocheted a blanket for one ex and his current girlfriend’s baby that they had together. Certainly wasn’t failed (yeah, there’s a little bit of “why wasn’t I good enough?”) and it was just too hard to get together so we went our separate ways

[@anemone7005]

My parents definitely made the right choice by divorcing. They basically had to grow up overnight after having kids and realised their "spark" had gone out. It's given them both opportunity to move on with life and have a chance to find their own happiness.

[@mountainhun]

I'm afraid that Louis CK said this, but I remember a comedian saying "No good marriages have ever ended in divorce."

[@Bostonceltics1369]

What do you think a successful relationship depends on?

[@Drugdaisy]

Ughhhhhhhhhh

[@LarsBars859]

This book sounds like it's aimed at 15 year olds, but it's about marriage. This is physical evidence of how Christianity infantilizes girls their entire life untill they are fully grown women with the emotional maturity of teens because they were so sheltered and detached from reality.

[@beccawecca916]

Wow well-put!! Seriously! Spot on 👌

[@SamIAmB]

Facts, I grew up peripherally around two different churches. A "non denom" mega church and a couple of Presbyterian ones. I was just as much of a square peg there as I was in HS in the early 00ds

[@wrinkleintime4257]

As someone who grew up in a conservative Latin American community (Pentecostal / Baptist) I think I experienced the double whammy of culture and religion at once. And yeah, at 25 in my first serous relationship after a life time of purity culture and shame and anxiety that after a lot of therapy and gaining new perspectives , I have been able to grow up quickly through my 20’s. But yeah, there is a lot of infantilisation of young women in Christian communities - like we need to stay pure and girl like and “untainted” and then also expected to be grown women immediately??? Like one day you’re a pure young girl and then suddenly you have to be a wife and mother??? There’s a few steps missing there …

[@SA-mo3hq]

For fundies, 15 is peak breeding age🤮. Maybe getting a little over the hill.

[@skydaddyissues3884]

I think that’s their target audience. I can’t emphasize enough how marriage and relationship books and seminars were a huge part of our life and expected reading and focus while in high school as a fundie girl. You gotta get them on board before they date or even consider sex before marriage. Other girls spend high school preparing for college and/or career. We literally prepared for marriage. That was the next thing.

[@vintagearisen]

Girl Defined writes about non-Christians like they've never talked to non-Christians And they probably haven't

[@elizabethheyn5365]

Pretty late comment, but I read a Christian book where the author was so angry at church workers wearing shorts in front of "unsaved men" at a church event for their kids and how these men would have been so distracted by their legs. It was just a wild conclusion, because I’m pretty sure they were more unfazed by it then the “saved Christian” men.

[@thatjojolesbian]

That clip of one of the girls saying “im going down the isle like ‘im not attracted to him but here I go!’” Made me so terrified like how do you live like that

[@S.M.9]

Not to be dramatic but it sounds like something a child bride would say when their married off but like they are not being forced it’s crazy Edit: I guess you could argue they are being forced by the culture they grew up in and their mindset but overall this is their decision and the fact they cheerfully will marry a man they aren’t even attracted to is crazy

[@valalava1]

literal jaw drop when she showed that clip

[@juliee593]

@@S.M.9 being forced but not conscious of it because they haven't reach an age where they can fully consent

[@girlie_ch33se20]

These girls really got married just to get married - like isn’t literally walking down the isle to your life partner the moment you’re supposed to feel *most* attracted to them??

[@terieber]

Kristin's story of dating her husband includes lots of details about how how hot she thought he was. She and Bethany said later that the comment in the video was a joke. I don't get it, because it's not funny.

[@vintagearisen]

Okay but seriously imagine your wife goes online and talks about how you're not really attractive to her. How is that supposed to make someone feel?

[@LilySaintSin]

That's what I thought! Poor guy.

[@random_meta]

Heard their husbands went to g*y conversion therapy, so he prolly doesn't mind.

[@essimathews9056]

I mean, I'm an asexual, and my partner understands that love, trust and admiration isn't always tied to attraction. I can't help not being attracted to them. I actually realized I was in love with him when I was getting excited about the prospect of being roommates and picking out furniture and just having a shared space to grow in. It was like the opposite of being infatuated and fixating on the romance of a wedding, it was more "I want to do old-married-couple shit already." so that could be what they meant.

[@oliviatiwaladeadedokun2929]

@@essimathews9056 sorry, just wanted to ask this, do you engage in sexual activities? Since you are asexual at all. How do you navigate that need from your partner?

[@marzipanmango]

@@essimathews9056 I agree that there's an element to long-term love other than romance. I see it in my parents who've been married over 35 years. It's sort of a gentle, caring, committed love. It's not passionate in a sexual way but it's lovely in and of itself. It's more than friendship but includes friendship... it's hard to describe. My parents probably have other types of love going on but they keep those private thankfully :P The Greeks had words for different types of love: Eros (sexual/romantic passion), Philia (affection between friends) and Agape (selfless, unconditional love). Just thought you might be interested if you hadn't heard of this :)

[@michiganscythian2445]

Y’know the stigma of “living with parents” needs to stop. A few years ago, a co worker of mine was on a dating site playing the field. She was complaining about a guy living with his mother. My co worker at the time was about 50, so most of the guys she was dating were about 45-60. I pointed out to her, that given his age, this meant that his mother was probably 70-80 years old and he probably lived with her because she was on social,security and possibly to be near her for health reasons. My dad, a physician (so he had money) would move back in with his parents after his various divorces (that’s a story for another time). Many of my dad’s numerous siblings became research scientists so they often lived with their parents while they finished degrees or between semesters. I actually liked it, as there were always aunts and uncles and cousins in my grandparents’ house as I was growing up. Lives with parents =/= loser. Might be a mutually beneficial thing or the child could be helping out the parent. I even pointed out to this co worker that probably wasn’t uncommon for her dating bracket

[@sunnyandthechlo]

I agree. Some cultures live with family indefinitely too. With the cost of housing the way it is, it’s common in expensive areas to live with a roommate anyway so why not family if you get along?

[@annabeinglazy5580]

I think it depends on the circumstances. E.g. If you live in a super expensive area, maybe moving Out is not a financial possibility. Maybe the Person is Out of a Job for one reason or another. Maybe the parents need Help in some way. Maybe there are some health issues going on where the Person themselves shouldnt be on their own. Epilepsy, for example, can make living alone dangerous. What If you get a severe seizure and noone notices? That being Said, the huge Red flag for me is when someone lives with parents despite having financial means and no outside circumstances. Thats mostly based on my Personal experience. I dont want to date someone who has never done their own laundry, who havent learned how to Cook for themselves, who dont know how to handle Bills. Basic stuff Like that. If they say they dont have the Money to move Out but then throw Money at Shopping and Dining Out, that tells me that they dont handle Money Well. So when i find out someone is living with their parents, i try to find out why.

[@vermilion6966]

Its not a stigma, living with your parents indicates either of 3 things, 2 of which are way more common 1. And the least common, you need to care for someone or they have to care for you because you or they cant care about themselves 2. Youre financially unstable so you simply cant affird your own appartments 3. Youre immature and still rely on your parents like you did when you were a kid both financially and psychologically . And frankly, NEITHER of those 3 things are the things anyone would want in a partner. So yes, if you live with your parents its a Red flag from the get go

[@vermilion6966]

@@sunnyandthechlo because its unnatural. Because your housemates are your equals and wont order you around, you dont rely on them and you can always find other ones if you want. living with your parents makes you stay dependant on them so you are never truly separated psychologically. Thats fckn bad and immature. Rule of the thumb, if you want to date or worse, marry and have children, stop living in your parents basement

[@sunnyandthechlo]

@@vermilion6966 A parent being old and needing care is a red flag? Or needing care because of a disability of some sort?

[@jglobetrotter2830]

I grew up in this culture. I used to attend youth group where the girls were oftentimes separated from the guys when we were talking about relationships. My brother says the boys got the message “porn BAD, when you see a girl in a bikini, look away!” The girls got the message “don’t flirt, don’t wear tank tops or short shorts, the right guy will “pursue” you when the time is right.” I have a notebook from when I was 14 where I wrote Proverbs 4:23 over and over and over. I was encouraged to meditate on it instead of thinking about boys. “Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.” So when the guy I had a crush on (but couldn’t flirt with or say anything to because I had to just hope he would decide to “pursue” me) started dating someone else, it was MY FAULT that I was sad about it because I didn’t guard my heart. This is why Kristen and Bethany are making such a huge deal about short-term relationships or crushes that didn’t work out.

[@DimaRakesah]

What I find amazingly childish about the whole thing is this idea that romantic flubs and disappointment is THE END OF THE WORLD OMG! They talk about their friends being broken-hearted as if it's some terrible thing that never should have happened to them. It's so strange to me that two nearly 30 year-old women talk about getting heart broken like a 12 year-old would. Instead of trying to work out how to maturely handle relationships they choose to completely opt out of dating until they marry a guy they hardly know and assume that it will work out if he's a good Christian and they can just avoid ever being heart broken? Hunny, that's what my mom did. My father became an alcoholic and despite my mom hanging around hoping he would quit or get better he never did. There is a good reason you should *REALLY* get to know someone before you marry them. Anyone can pretend to be a great partner for a few months or a year while you live apart and are constantly being watched. Live with them a little while and see who they *really* are.

[@personax4603]

I am in ortodox school now (but i am an atheist) and I've always thought i grew up in a culture way more conservative than catholic one. Now I see that I was mistaken 'cause we are absolutely ok with dating and I have two bi friends from my class. But purity culture is real and harmful and we, teens, share our experience on it to each other.

[@thesingerintheshower]

Thanks for the insight. What you said makes a lot of sense. I also grew up in this culture.

[@llngdsb]

How sad that religion turns most things so ... bad. That sentence sounds quite lovely, actually.

[@vulpixelful]

"The WEDDING" is where purity culture and capitalism meet so it's hardly surprising. Other cultures who seem fixated on female purity also are fixated on the wedding. Indian weddings have nothing on most evangelical American ones, for example.

[@wrinkleintime4257]

My partner and I have such small and problematic families (oh when you realise your Latin American families are toxic and u healthy to be around and have to start setting strict boundaries with people you were forced to be family with before …) so I cannot imagine having a large wedding. My parents didn’t have a large wedding , and as much as I dream about my ball gown moment ~ I don’t think if I get married I’ll have a big wedding. At the end of the day what matters is the MARRIAGE lol. My family is Cuban/Colombian and pretty conservative Christian and I now consider myself spiritual not religious, my bf grew up catholic and is now atheist. So while our families are big on GET MARRIED , everyone hates each other too much to ever think that we’ll have a big wedding 😅 I’ll wear my pretty (but usable outside of a wedding) ball gown to the courthouse lol And we are both 100% pro therapy and healing the generational traumas we are now dealing with our families and how it bleeds into our relationship , and how we can stop those patterns!

[@CJ-nz8it]

@Rach this is exactly what we did. Registry office takes about 10mins then pub lunch with immediate family. We did have a 2tier cake which was the most expensive thing that day. Wedding dress £36. Honestly the most chill and fun day, no stressing about organising hoards of people.

[@abbysc417]

@Rach my husband and I literally just signed the paperwork, cried a lot lol, then bought some donuts and went home. It was epic, I highly recommend eloping.

[@antisocialal4799]

@Rach Sort of agreeing. I don’t think weddings are scams, I think capitalism is a scam. I want to have a wedding, just not while I’m still living in the US. It’s far more affordable in other countries like Canada.

[@jefrreyjeffery2192]

Nah I'd like a big party for my wedding on an island or something.

[@skydaddyissues3884]

“Omg, we had heartbreak! Dating is BAD!!” Um no, heartbreak is part of life. You don’t have to marry the first man ya meet, girls.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

Right! Not to mention heartbreak occurs from all sorts of things unrelated to dating; it’s basically unavoidable unless you become a hermit & avoid close relationships.

[@sarah_757]

Don't marry the second person you date, either. Ask me how I know lolsob

[@georgem2334]

Evangelical Christians are taught not to engage in heavy petting, front hugging, and any sexual feelings at all until marriage. And masturbation is strictly forbidden. And young girls are pushed into signing a purity pledge. Plus they are encouraged to marry very young, before age 21. Women are not given enough time to know who they are, and what they want in life. So anxiety like Bethany is what results.

[@birb5306]

No hugs???? That’s so sad

[@jwharton4575]

@@birb5306 truer words have never been spoken

[@Gaibreel]

No masturbation... who's checking 🤣🤣🤣🤣 for real. So dumb. Live your life. Hug people, have lots of orgasms who cares

[@nessyness5447]

@@sf2113 ...if the rest of your family is not that extreme despite religion, maybe your sister is just really uncomfortable with physical touch in general and is using religion as an excuse. Which can be very dangerous if she actually get married because then she will feel obligated to undergo something that makes her very uncomfortable

[@nessyness5447]

Heavy petting? What's that?

[@bethanythatsme]

This atheist & unmarried (by choice) Bethany very much appreciates your content. Edit: i wonder if young Christian girls' obsession with the wedding details could also have to do with it's only these things that they get to have opinions about. From wedding day on, the decisions will be up to her husband. Full stop. Thank godess I deconstructed from this very mindset.

[@RachelOates]

Oooh that's a perspective I hadn't considered before! You make an excellent point!

[@aaronshropshire8552]

I think you're right. It also may be that a sense of self worth is tied up in the pageantry. Kind of a holdover from the mentality of the bride price where a woman's worth was a literal amount.

[@bethanythatsme]

@@aaronshropshire8552 that makes sense to me. It's a lot to unpack.

[@bethanythatsme]

@@RachelOates 🖤

[@bottomthor]

i'd also suggest that its a day where its "okay" to be "vain" in conservative Christian culture. to have pretty makeup and a pretty dress and pretty flowers and to focus first and without shame on been pretty, when that act is derided as vanity and "worldliness" to fundies

[@carpenoctumpoetry8400]

“The culture encourages single women to make a decision based on chemistry and infatuation.” This is literally the culture that THEY are a part of that encourages this!

[@skydaddyissues3884]

Idk. I’d rather have a relationship based on chemistry than one based on how much someone loves an invisible deity instead of you know, me. I’d rather someone be infatuated with me than the idea of how submissive I’d be, or how I’d surely never leave them because I’ve memorized too much scripture to ever do that. It always seemed risky to me to put so much faith in someone’s character because of how much “God” they are into. When their faith changes or is challenged or is revealed to be lacking, what kind of foundation do you have then?

[@melcosgrove-arayesh8304]

The toxic dating culture is coming from INSIDE the house!!!

[@FeministCatLadySpinster]

They do consider people who aren't cis or straight. They consider them sinners. :) ETA: I'm baffled that Kristen and Bethany apparently had relationships before getting married... but they somehow didn't grow or learn anything along the way...?

[@alanamontero4743]

As a former fundie, I understand. In these relationships, you are avoiding BOTH physical and emotional/mental intimacy, so they are only really superficial relationships with little or no real connection. Plus, you're focused on playing a role and following the rules and formulas. It's hard to grow from relationships like that.

[@vermilion6966]

Its all play pretend

[@MH-wz1rb]

@@alanamontero4743 ex Cath, you've said it shorter than I usually can manage. Both parties in these relationships put up a front. The church tells you how to act and what to look for in a partner, which is exactly what they told the other gender to act like. Then get married before the front falls away, have some kids, and not be allowed to divorce and pretend everything is fine. One thing I have been thinking about, which is just my own working theory after a lot of research. Abusers often put up a mirror and reflect the traits of the victim back at them, only dropping the ruse when the victim is reeled in. It is very effective in the hands of an abuser. The church encourages this tactic implicitly through their rigid binary gender roles and other control tactics. That doesn't make the people in these couples abusers, of course. In my opinion it makes some churches abusers, among other things these churches do. But it sets many couples up under a mutual ruse. Abusers use it because it works. And the church gets two people to use it on each other without understanding that they are, because it works. Tactics that short out human reasoning or exploit the primal level of the human mind are fairly common. People can use them or be conditioned to use them by their upbringing with varying levels of understanding, malice, or responsibility. So, like most things, it is complicated. But the resemblance to known manipulation tactics I think is on solid ground.

[@booklover8081]

As someone who is in a Christian family with similar beliefs on marriage. “Relationships” before marriage are just close friendships where you have crushes on one another. My sister considers it “flirty” when you laugh after a guy says something funny or smile with teeth after a guy helps you pick something up that you dropped. You also can’t be in a room alone with them and my sister is “seeing” someone who is in their twenties and isn’t allowed to talk to her on the phone past eleven. They also need a chaperone with them at every single date they go on and kissing before marriage is basically forbidden.

[@FeministCatLadySpinster]

Wow. Hearing these stories makes it sound so... bleak. :\ And it's weird, since fundies typically hold up their marriages and ways of doing things as "the one true way" to be right with god *and* find happiness. And I guess if divorce isn't an option, if you aren't allowed to get to know your spouse until after the wedding, it doesn't matter (to the ones enforcing it) if you actually like each other or not.

[@caseycronan9217]

I gasped when I saw Miss Lady Kyra in her glorious scarf. She’s a very honorable good girl. ❤️

[@edvh88]

It truly takes skill to wear a scarf with such panache!

[@atlroxmysox98]

I need Rachel to know how much I enjoyed that lmao

[@dragongirl7978]

The "more trees = more sticks!" part gave me a giggle. 😂😂

[@rootbourne4454]

That dog has such a gentle sweet smile

[@kimberlyaustin7030]

That needs to be it's own stand alone video. Her royalty highness was so pretty and noble!

[@IamMe11200]

Their attitude towards sex and marriage reminded me of the tragic murder of Cody Johnson, whose newlywed wife pushed him off a cliff after just 8 days of marriage. Kendall Rae has a great video about it. In a nutshell, a deeply religious young girl agrees to marry someone they don't love and is so deathly afraid of sex, (there are multiple text messages for example where she expresses to her friends that she is incredibly afraid of the wedding night, and has multiple panic attacks before the wedding) and divorce that she actually commits murder. I absolutely don't defend her, but it's insane what a deeply religious upbringing where sex is treated as a terrible thing and virginity is so important can do to you, especially when breaking up/divorce doesn't seem to be an option :/

[@guacamollie2460]

I do. I defend her. It's pure self preservation.

[@ameliasellers6396]

Yeah, I think she's not in the wrong either. She was pressured into marriage and was experiencing extreme psychological distress over it, it makes sense that she finally snapped and killed him. I can't even find Cody's murder sad, because I wonder what he did to finally push her to her breaking point.

[@juliee593]

Welp. That sounds exactly like something I would do if I had been brought up like her...

[@hoathanatos6179]

I almost thought you were telling me that Cody Johnston was dead and I got scared.

[@xtinkerbellax3]

@@ameliasellers6396 Could he not also be a victim of the same culture? It sounds like that's what pushed her, not him necessarily.

[@Havenly87]

"I'm a woman who's single by choice". As a 22 year old woman you don't know how nice it feels to hear another woman say those words. Everyone expects me to be interested in finding a partner, finding love or a sex partner at least, and I need to explain myself all the time that I'm happy how my life is right now, that I'm not actively looking for a partner of any sort. Most people think "oh you haven't found the right person yet" and I'm like NO, AND I DON'T CARE, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR ANYBODY. Will I always be single? I don't know and I don't care, finding love is not my purpose in life.

[@jecsibethguevara9819]

Are you me? Some days I feel so inadequate because everybody seems to be so focused on the dating world. I can't help but feel that maybe u should be too even if just a little. But then again do not feel unhappy or unfulfilled with my life rn in that aspect and hearing that other people feel comfortable too is very reassuring

[@hurricanejaney]

exactly! if the right person comes along, then awesome. if not, that’s fine too! until then I’m not going to revolve my life around seeking out love. it’s a time-consuming endeavor, and i hardly have time to lend to hobbies. the time i do find seems far better spent on things i know i enjoy than scrolling through tinder

[@merrymermaid]

@@hurricanejaney exactly how i feel too!! you explained it so well :)

[@ravioli2020]

I was very similar in my early 20's. I ended up finding someone to love and our relationship is kind of a continuation of these feelings. We have been together for almost 7 years and live our lives very happy and independent. Sometimes we go on trips together, but we are confident and comfortable apart and I usually go to visit family with out him and he'll spend weekends with old friends. People stillllllll question me about my relationship and are confused why neither of us care or are interested in getting married even though we've got a house and pets together. No matter what your relationship status is or happy you are in your relationship, people always want you to do and be more. It's so infuriating.

[@Miluriel]

I'm pretty jealous, honestly. That sounds like such a relaxed and great way to live. Sadly, my brain just throws loneliness at me, so...

[@sunnyandthechlo]

When I got married I told myself that there was no need to become a bridezilla. Not everything would go perfectly but take it in stride, it wasn't about the wedding, it was about me and my husband. The rest was just a cool party for a day. It made everything much easier and more fun. Also, we talked everything through beforehand. Everything. Kids, jobs, what would we do if this happened or this happened...we were on the same page constantly. We're still extremely happy and in love 13 years later.

[@tonichan89]

Hear hear! I'm with you 100%, that's how I wanna do things too. Just gotta find someone to marry, but still.

[@elleembee6335]

I know exactly where you're coming from. After having worked in weddings, I was absolutely not going to turn into the kind of brides I'd had to deal with (and had my life threatened by over $15). We had a tiny wedding, 18 people including the two of us and our three kids from previous marriages. I let someone else use our topper a year later, donated the wedding dress to charity, and gave the second layer of the cake to a retirement home. The wedding was always secondary to the marriage for us even though we'd both eloped in our first marriages. I told my husband I didn't care what went wrong as long as nothing happened with the cake that made us end up on KZbin. A million little things went wrong, but it was an important day to share with family and something we celebrate annually (15 years this summer). The cake survived and we didn't end up on KZbin, so it was a successful day.

[@monus782]

@@tonichan89 same here, and besides having a religious ceremony is a tradition in my family and I'm a closeted atheist to them for now so I'll fight tooth and nail if necessary to not have it, it would feel very hypocritical for me to go through that and I refuse to support the church I was part of in any way including financially.

[@ltlrms]

It's so weird to me that marriage proposals are this big surprise. That would be a big red flag for me if a partner just proposed out of nowhere. Communication is super important, and a conversation about marriage should happen without the sudden & immense pressure of an expensive ring (oftentimes in a public setting) where you're only expected to answer 'yes' or 'no.'

[@nachtegaelw5389]

Yeah, I think this one may be a generational/cultural distinction. My parents didn’t discuss the possibility of marriage before my dad proposed, & my mum was really surprised when I told her that most of my friends who are married had discussed it first, & the engagement was more of a formality for them. For my friends it was mainly just practical, as timing the weddings was based around finishing degrees first, or legal paperwork if the couple were citizens of different countries. But beyond those considerations, I’d rather discuss the possibility of getting married with a potential partner *before* an engagement & make sure we are on the same page about important stuff!

[@this_Kwazicat]

I think marriage proposal CAN be a big surprise, but still be ok. It may be about timing. Like, when you and your partner have already talked about marriage and decided that yes you want to get married, but the proposal itself is a total surprise. I knew a couple of people who did/wanted to do such things.

[@Shirumoon]

@@this_Kwazicat That would be perfect for me! I think it's madness to marry someone without having discussed what both parties want out of it so I need extensive talks beforehand. Evangelical women on the other hand already seem to have their marriage laid out by the bible and the expectations of the community so there's probably not much to talk about before going through with it.

[@hayyyoooh916]

@@this_Kwazicat Yupp this is exactly what I want to do with my future partner… talk about marriage then randomly 3 months later when she isn’t expecting it, ask.

[@tjh350]

“I got sick on a spinning ride, therefore everyone who rode it hated it as much as I did and nobody should ever ride it again”

[@amybess]

Urge to make joke

[@nachtegaelw5389]

As a person who hates amusement park rides, this is a great analogy!

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

Also people change. I was terrified of roller coasters until I was about 16. I had lots of exposure from a young age too. Then one day I went to 6 Flags in NJ for the 100th time, went on what was (at the time) the tallest, fastest, roller coaster in the world. Had a great time. Now if only I could afford to go to one now.

[@tomsenior7405]

I allowed my Fiancée to do all the Wedding Planning, at her insistence. She had obviously been working on her dreams long before she met me. Throughout the build up to the Big Day she seemed enthusiastic, excited and obsessed. And then, standing before all our friends and families in the Church, I was amazed at the Beauty of the Wedding Dress. The fit, the Cut, the lace. It was stunning. However, I would have preferred to have worn a suit. A word of advice; Be Careful What Your Fiancée Wishes For.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

That's a damn good plot twist 🤣😂🤣

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

Underrated comment

[@tomsenior7405]

@@pokemonfanthings4444 Sweet

[@isihosena635]

Congrats on you two girls' wedding!

[@Clementine3107]

"Asexual women dont count as real women" Well guys Guess i ll disappear.

[@salviarifdah2730]

I will come with you, my friend.

[@audreyhatch7115]

Me when I found out I am not a real woman: 🚹

[@TRexRAWWR1]

Do you all want to be let back into the real girls club or are you okay?

[@vanissaberg5824]

I guss I'll be absorbed back into the void. Darn it! Lmao! 😂🤣

[@zacharygilmore1075]

I guess I’m not a real man, then.

[@doggerybaw]

I think the big problem with adultery(as opposed to like polyamory) is the breaking of trust. If you and your partner have entered into a monogamous relationship, and one of you cheats, it has broken the promise you made to each other. It can also cause a situation where STI's are introduced because the cheating partner doesn't get tested(whether blatantly or just doesn't think to), which then leads to health concerns for the monogamous partner. Some people can rebuild that trust again, and some people can't. That's why I personally think it's important to check in with your partner periodically to make sure you are on the same page in regard to your relationship status. As always, communication is key.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

Absolutely, the difference to me boils down to consent, where polyamory is based on consent to “open” the relationship, & infidelity has a lack of consent for “opening” it. Which is a huge difference imo!

[@jefrreyjeffery2192]

Also you shouldn't ask your partner to be poly in the middle of monogamous relationship

[@doggerybaw]

@@jefrreyjeffery2192 I agree that you shouldn't just pop that question out of the blue. However, as your relationship evolves and changes, it's totally fine to decide as a couple to switch from monogamy to polamory. This involves deep conversations about what polamory means to you both. It means talking about how you will react if one partner decides after a bit that being poly really isn't for them and they actually feel jealous of their partner having other partners. I can't cover everything my partner and I discussed when deciding to switch to a poly relationship, but we wouldn't have been able to if we weren't at a place where we were already extremely open with each other.

[@anthill1510]

I agree with the trust part. I get agitated by the STI part. You get STI´s from people NOT USING CONDOMS, not from cheating itself. If my partner would cheat on me and also woudn`t use condoms, that`s so much worse. That`s not just breaking the trust of keeping to monogamy, that means he consciously put my health in danger to "have fun".

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

That is absolutely why you have higher divorce rates among younger individuals because they rushed the marriage and didn't actually think through what they were doing and largely we're just doing it to satisfy religious ideals. This is exactly why you have higher divorce strengths among younger people then you do with older individuals. This is why non-religious individuals do actually have a lower rate of divorce then religious individuals.

[@atlroxmysox98]

Okay but fr I graduated from college in May 2020 and I’m seeing a lot of people getting married all of the sudden and it’s freaking me out (I went to a small liberal arts college in a conservative area). I thought everyone would get married later like late 20s-early 30s at the earliest. I thought we were all going to spend our 20s single and free? I’m not judging I’m just confused. And I’m looking at all these couples and like…it’s not that I want them to get divorced lmao, i want them to all live happily every after. But the math says at least 50% of them won’t 👀 So I scroll through instagram like “okay who’s not going to make it”. Is that terrible?

[@kiraeckard7625]

@@atlroxmysox98 It was the same way for me right out of college. I was a little older than most of my classmates bc I was pursuing a different degree for a couple years degree and switched to an entirely different sort of degree. But It was crazy to see a bunch of 22 year old girls (and some boys), getting married! I would hardly consider people that age to be full adults yet, even when I was only a couple years older than them. It's been a few more years since then and I haven't kept track of all of them, but I have certainly noticed that the few I do follow have stopped showcasing their 'perfect' romance and their spouses are rarely in pictures. So some are either keeping their lives more private now or things are not as great as they hoped. Lots of girls are so stuck on this timeline that they get married even if they aren't happy with the guy they're with at the time, or they feel completely lost and desperate if they don't have anyone they can look forward to marriage with. I remember one girl in particular was asked if she planned on marrying her BF when we did a school function and she grimaced and didn't say anything. A couple months later she was engaged, and married not long after that. It was sorta sad to see. She seems happy online, as usual, but I can't help but think that she just got trapped in those Southern expectations. We have a challenging degree too, so these aren't stupid people. Cultural expectations can affect anyone.

[@amyparker9816]

I agree up to a point. What I don't agree with is romanticizing the lower divorce rate among older people because you have to remember that women couldn't even open a bank account on their own until the 70s. In the 50s, most women really didn't have the option of working outside the home, and so if they divorced they'd have no option for an income. I have more than a few friends who have said that their parents and/or grandparents are absolutely miserable but haven't divorced due to religious reasons or general stigma. While I absolutely agree that rushing into a marriage like fundies recommend isn't the best way to go, blindly romanticizing the relationships between older people isn't the way to go either.

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

@@atlroxmysox98 I got married at 22. I agree we were not ready at all but we have still remained married but the only thing that saved our marriage was me losing religion. My religion was destroying our marriage.

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

@@amyparker9816 I'm not romanticizing the divorce rates of older individuals that's just reality. The older people tend to plan out their marriage a lot better instead of rushing into it and thus have lower divorce rates. The younger individuals tend to rush it and therefore end up getting divorced far more likely than the older people do. I'm not talking about people that actually lived through not being allowed to own a bank account I'm talking about people that are like in their thirties have a lower rate of divorce than say a 19 year old. Even people in there later twenties have a lower rate of divorce than the 19 and 20 year old. And by older people I'm talking about past their twenties. In your thirties it's not old but it's older than in your twenties.

[@ChoppedLiver]

I had one of those horrible, harmful one-night stands in 1978. We've been married 40 years now. There are many paths to climb Mt. Fuji.

[@jules2291]

When you talked about the unnecessary importance placed on weddings I thought about my own culture (Indian) and I thought I'd share a bit about why I think conservative religious communities palace so much importance on the ceremony . -Status symbol - Where I live people have four day long weddings with atleast two hundred guests , aka the whole community , to boast to people that their family will have more little hairs and heiresses as soon as their new daughter in law gets pregnant . They will talk about how the sucession of the family business and whatnot is secure . The wedding is just another opportunity for the groom's parents to get clout . Religion - Of course , this is the most important . Hinduism places a great importance on marriage and so to prove that their son's relationship is holy the parents will place a lot of importance on the rituals that take place on the wedding day . Even if they don't actually understand the ritual and the only one who profits form the situation is the priest (they earn a lot of cash from performing often meaningless pre and post wedding rituals) Culture - Again , conservative societies don't accept dating , most marriages I've seen are arranged , as a result to avoid the 'embarrassment' of their daughter allegedly having an affair they make a big deal to prove that the couple is indeed married and not fooling around . Why I mention the groom's parents only in most cases you ask ? Because thanks to sweet sexism the bride doesn't have a say in what happens .

[@kayhaven4710]

There is a lot to love about Indian culture, but the arranged marriages and the caste system are some of the really dark parts of it. I’m sorry you have to deal with this BS, but I hope you have luck chasing your dreams and accomplish them all!! ❤️🧡💛

[@atlroxmysox98]

I’ve always wondered the average cost of an Indian wedding. In Mexico we have big weddings, but nothing like y’all’s. Here families will spend fortunes and go into debt for weddings, quinceañeras, and funerals, and other religious ceremonies. It’s insane to think about, especially when you take into account the huge poverty problem here. I can imagine in India it must be equally mind-boggling.

[@jaybirdfly149]

As an Indian soon to be bride, I hate the idea of the elaborate wedding. One thing I despise the most is the society wondering why my elder sister didn't marry despite being in her 30s. They assume she has "problems" like having affairs, mentally challenged or not able to conceive. The real truth is she is not someone who can handle the toxic nature of in laws and she doesn't see herself as a motherly or wifey material so she chose not to marry. But Indian society loves their gossips. Hence why we decided not to invite more people to the wedding so that my sister can enjoy the event without being judged or sympathised.

[@komal146]

@@atlroxmysox98 it is. My friend's mom was crying how my friend's sister is not letting them gain heaven points by having a small wedding with no gifts (read dowry). She was actually sad how other aunties have taken loans for weddings. Blows my mind. Her parents refused to get loans for her sister's masters degree from Canada. But this shit is fine apparently.

[@jules2291]

@@atlroxmysox98 I have a divorced aunt and she goes through the same judgement even from family . I later learnt that she and the groom had a ten year age difference and she agreed to the match at the age of eighteen - no wonder she fled with her kid the omens she could , she must have been miserable . And another aunt who remained single and might be a closeted lesbian (she has a female 'roommate and best friend' whom she adores) . She gets judgement as well , though in her case people say its because she's 'too masculine' .

[@jess34]

I grew up in a very conservative household with parents who stayed together “for the kids” one of which raised us in the Mormon church. I was basically told that dating was off the table until after college,which took longer than expected so I went on my first date at 25. I feel like this lack of being able to explore relationships and my sexuality really stunted me emotionally. I basically experienced my “teenage phase” in my twenties and had to learn who I am and what I want a lot later than everyone else (figured out I’m bisexual and non-religious eventually ). It’s made dating really challenging and I still haven’t had any long term relationships, but I’ve gotten more comfortable with myself in the meantime. Hopefully all the other things will come naturally along the way. I saw a lot of my peers grow up and marry the first guy who looked their way right after high school. Most of them had a couple kids and are now either divorced or in a bad marriage. I try not to be judgmental about religion, but there’s so many outdated ideals in these communities that really seem to hurt people in the end.

[@wrinkleintime4257]

Grew up very similar though Pentecostal :’) I’m 25 and in my first serious relationship (my boyfriend is 26 and in his first serious relationship bc he also had a similar restricted and controlled upbringing). Have also been thinking about bisexuality and accepting that , and I’m more spiritual now than religious (I believe in God but I don’t go to church or anything anymore). It’s rough but we still have time to grow and learn more about ourselves! :) I’m glad to hear you’re in a place of learning and healing, and growing! And that’s the best place to be in 💗 I also hate to think of anything as being “behind” as well. No, we are not behind. We have our own pace when it comes to relationships and a lot of it comes for. Trauma that we experienced and was not our fault. (Im 25 and my family is still weird and upset about this relationship I’m in now …) So there’s nothing “behind” about growing at our own pace !! If you want a relationship, you will find one 💕 much love to ya internet stranger! You’re not alone in having such relationship experiences at an older age! And yeah, I also have friends even a close friend from HS who was similarly religious (we were even part of the same church group in college) and she got married to her first bc who she met at church and idk … should check in on her to see how it’s panning out for her so far :’) there’s something uncomfortably old fashioned about marriage and relationships in religious spaces …

[@jess34]

@@wrinkleintime4257 I really appreciate your comment 🤍 it’s always nice to know you are not alone in your situation. I definitely need to work on letting go of social “norms” and letting myself experience things at my own pace. Society has such a messed up way of making you feel like you have to have shit together by your late 20s or you’re a failure. Best wishes to you and your boyfriend and your journeys in learning about yourselves 🤍

[@monus782]

I’m ex-Catholic but at 27 I feel similarly, in my case it was because I spent my high school and college years thinking I was meant to be a priest or monk (so no sex for me, ever) and when I deconverted at age 24 I was too depressed to try it out (still am to an extend, I pretty much lost everything when my faith finally died out), and then the pandemic happened. It doesn’t help that the Catholic school I went to didn’t teach any proper sex ed (and neither did my practicing parents) so I had to take it into my own hands and learn the stuff on my own in my late 20’s and some of Rachel’s videos have been helpful in that regard. Although I don’t regret passing up the few chances of dating I had back then (considering how full of guilt and shame I was it probably wouldn’t have ended well) I sometimes wonder if my past screwed me over in my dating chances and no one will want to go out with an inexperienced guy like me, it may not be true but it’s really hard to shake off that thought especially when you really feel like a late bloomer in many things (and I’ve also have felt like a failure for not having my life together at my age, because of the void of identity and purpose I still have it’s very hard to imagine where I will be in five years or describe myself). Wish you the best of luck in your journey and search for that partner

[@solaceseries]

I'm catholic but even deeply rooted in my house and culture I wasn't allowed to have a relationship because I wasn't ready according to my parents so all I did was focus on studies and now that I'm in my twenties I'm practically in my "teenage phase" like you have mentioned and trying to explore myself more because I never had that chance in my teenage years.

[@thegillmachine]

EVERYONE SHOULD DO THEIR SPONSORSHIPS THROUGH DOGS

[@monicaenns9967]

Or a dog and a cat!

[@jonathanstern5537]

Two things, 1. The divorce rate has never been 50% in the US, and, likely because Millennials are getting married older than their parents, and are trying to become friends first instead of jumping into romance/sex, the divorce rate has actually been on the decline. 2. As Adam Conover said, "Good marriages don't end in divorce; bad marriages do." It's much better to come to an amicable agreement to end a relationship, than to stay in one that you hate. BTW, one genre of show I love is the debunking show. Shows like, Mythbusters, Penn and Teller's Bullshit, and Adam Ruins Everything are wonderful to me.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

I read that people who have more than one divorce are statistically likely to have had several, which skews the statistics on divorce. I.e., maybe 50% of *marriages* end in divorce, but less than 50% of *married people* will experience a divorce. (Not saying it’s actually 50% of marriages, just giving an example of how the ratios work) And just to be clear, I have nothing against divorce! I really hope the social stigma around it continues to lessen into oblivion.

[@jonathanstern5537]

@@nachtegaelw5389 Interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

@@jonathanstern5537 sure

[@jb76489]

@@jonathanstern5537if you think Adam ruins everything is a reliable source, you are a massive twat lmao

[@Little-Dude]

I'm still in awe of what they think "Modern Culture" is telling them. Also them constantly referencing "Hollywood" and "Fairy Tales" giving people a false expectation sounds extremely antiquated.

[@annabeinglazy5580]

What, you dont expect a thousand songbirds carrying your train while mice sing and throw Rose petals? ;)

[@skydaddyissues3884]

Hahaha it’s such a scam. The only fairy tale I was taught growing up was that “God has someone just for you! He’s creating a man right now just for you, and your relationship will glorify Him you just don’t do shit else with your life and wait and pray and wait and be good! God has designed a man just for you! Marriage is good, and since God wants you to marry and not sin, He will provide that for you.” Spoiler alert, he never showed up, so. I just was made a fool by waiting around and putting any kind of adult life on hold for a hypothetical person. I have since grow up, got married to someone outside the faith, divorced, spent time single, had a child out of wedlock, and now enjoy an unconventional but happy relationship with my sons dad. And I left the faith.

[@DimaRakesah]

Seriously, where are these movies/books/TV shows that they are talking about? I have a lot of criticisms for how "hollywood" tends to portray relationships, but "do whatever you want giiiiirl and just have fun!" was not one of the harmful messages on my list! I get the distinct impression they don't actually watch any of these movies or whatever. It's like they see a trailer with a heavy emphasis on the beginning of the story where characters are being selfish, and they never watch the movie to see how the characters learn from their mistakes that were highlighted in the trailer.

[@tokyomootsie]

It made me think about how I was only allowed to listen to and watch certain media growing up. For example, we listened to Christian rock instead of “normal” rock. We watched Disney but weren’t allowed to watch Nickelodeon because it was deemed “rude”. And my family wasn’t even that devout. So if you grow up in a media echo chamber it makes sense that they have that sanitized view. They’re watching fluff and just hearing about the “dirty” drama of Hollywood.

[@lutheranninja1819]

can we talk about how they're low key blaming their friend for her "good looks" not being able to keep her man faithful? Cheating is a choice. A choice that the cheater makes alone.

[@kateshep2]

I realized I'm a lesbian about two years ago, and it's really intense to feel exclusion from entire worldviews like this, more than I would have thought. Not intense in a bad way, though; it's not like I feel sad that I'm left out of the boundaries for Girl Defined's advice lol. But it's intense to realize how much HAPPIER I am now (and I'm also single on purpose rn). I used to always be worried about finding the right guy, getting engaged, having kids before it's too late. It's indescribably freeing now to see I never actually wanted any of that in the first place! My life belongs to me, there's no correct timeline for love or commitment, and most importantly, I don't have to devote myself to someone I'm not attracted to just because that's what is expected of me. :)

[@nachtegaelw5389]

That sounds like a healthy perspective! I’m glad you’ve found happiness:)

[@jb76489]

You’re not a lesbian you’re trans

[@lauraslibrary3668]

I find it very odd that they say "culture" is telling young women to base their futures on infatuation when A LOT of fundamentalist Christians advise marrying extremely quickly. What are a lot of those quick marriages based on if not new relationship infatuation and a rush to be able to be intimate? By contrast, I think popular culture is advocating for taking time to get to know partners or maybe live with them for a long time before you commit your life to them!

[@elegantoddity8609]

Ironically their culture is fairly superficial in many ways. Get married early so that you aren't old when you're looking for a partner. Don't have sex with anyone else because "good men" don't want "used goods". It's a marketing campaign, basically.

[@spinstercatlady]

I can't relate either, Rachel lol. It seems mind blowing that someone would put so much emphasis on a single event. But, I've also always thought weddings are a massive waste of money so maybe I'm not the best person to ask haha.

[@ari3604]

I have at times thought about or daydream about but I don't revolve my life or free time to it

[@tophatcat9996]

why would I waste money on a wedding when I could use that money to follow my passions 🤷‍♀️ I just don't get it

[@spinstercatlady]

@@tophatcat9996 right?! Even if I were so inclined to get married (which I'm not lol) then I'd still not want to spend thousands of dollars on a one day event. Would much rather use it on a home, education, furniture, travel, or *gasp* savings haha!

[@warlordofbritannia]

Yknow about heuristics, this psychological thing we do in our heads when we ascribe characteristics and beliefs to people we barely know, using the ones we do know about them to subconsciously associate with other such things? I don’t know what you would call coming up with this whole fanfic of a stranger’s life based on the most limited interactions 😂

[@spinstercatlady]

@@warlordofbritannia who's ascribing characteristics and beliefs here? Ya lost me lol.

[@ljones3487]

What's wrong with a man who works part time, lives with his parents, and plays computer games? You just described my husband when we got engaged! 😅 We're celebrating our ten year anniversary this year. He's one of the nicest people I've ever met. 🙄

[@tonichan89]

Sounds like a "Mr Struggle", tsk tsk! 😆 (see Kody Ko's reaction to their video on 10 guys not to date, court or marry)

[@hayyyoooh916]

My dads like that💀 lmao it’s a lot wrong with him tho

[@sylvie_on]

Congrats!!

[@mindajane]

I completely agree we very much need to end the shame around divorce and break ups. I get so sick of hearing and seeing people say "People just give up on their relationships too easily!" That thinking and that shame is part of why I stayed in my unhealthy dysfunctional for way too long! I know so many people who say they wish they'd left relationships sooner. I don't know anyone who wishes they had fought harder for a relationship(I'm not saying there aren't people who do but I think they're far more rare than those who wish they'd left sooner). For most people ending a relationship is not something done on a whim. Many of fought for that relationship harder than they every should've. There is no shame in ending a relationship, married or not. There is nothing wrong with making your happiness and your well being(mental, emotional, and physical) a priority.

[@niklasmolen4753]

Maybe it's a cultural thing, but I do not know that any shame around divorce. I mostly agree that people give up relationships too easily. Relationships are and have never been easy. And am absolutely sure that people put in too little work on the relationship. They have unrealistic expectations of their partner is too little demand on themselves. But on the other hand, there are plenty of people who should give up sooner.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

Absolutely! And dating someone for a short time & deciding you’re not compatible is not a bad thing!! Even if it wasn’t a toxic dynamic. I’ve heard some people describe that as lack of commitment, but I see it as taking commitment seriously & wanting to make sure you only commit to something that will work out & hopefully last (if that’s your goal). (Not that dating casually for other reasons is bad, tbc)

[@sydneygarrisson5629]

In a lot of these evangelical communities the wedding and having children are the only things they have to look forward to. It is strange that Kristen and Bethany had more than one courtship. A lot of times the dad will pick their daughters husband so they probably don't or didn't see a point in focusing on the husband part of the equation.

[@TurbopropPuppy]

Girl Defined is practically defined (ha) by projection rhetoric. "Things happened to me this way and I feel this way, therefore EVERYONE ELSE MUST BE THE SAME AND JUST LYING IF THEY SAY OTHERWISE"

[@anabellawildern1328]

girl defined: hollywood's White Cis Het take on romance is BAD! girl defined: This is our equally White Cis Het take on romance but extra christan.

[@SoVidushi]

Rachel you really do look great in shirts w saturated colours and patterns. Great video as always

[@Zulf85]

Fr lmao - I'm jealous

[@williamsin41]

🤣 I have to let myself just love the eye shadow & shirt combo before I can listen🤣

[@nachtegaelw5389]

I love how her shirt kinda matches the painting behind her!

[@struckanerve88]

I think there are a lot of people like Girl Defined, in terms of thinking about the wedding and not the relationship. People in the states at least get to an age and they go "well I'm 26 now better get married" and then the next person they date they marry and it is almost solely because "they are ready" to get married and not because they found their life partner. I know of quite a few people my age who have been divorced and all because they got married to their partner right after finishing undergrad or postgrad studies "well it is the next thing to do" instead of thinking about compatibility and who they wanted to be with. Not saying everyone does this, but I know people who have done this and only focused on the wedding and maybe "being married" and not about the person they were going to be with forever.

[@whatthehellisthis]

i’m indian (though i’ve lived in the US my whole life) and i’ve noticed there’s a lot of expectations for people get married by a certain age, especially for women. even i’ve been told that i need to start getting that figured out by the time i reach my mid-twenties, though i’ve made it clear that i intend to take my sweet time.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

I’ve never understood that mindset. One of my friend’s parents got married despite recognizing they were incompatible because they were approaching 30, wanted to have kids & a family, & thought they might not have another chance to marry someone. They were miserable together & got divorced as soon as their youngest went to college, & my friend wishes they had done so sooner. It might work out for some people, but committing to a marriage because you feel like you have no other options is not something I would choose!

[@nachtegaelw5389]

@@whatthehellisthis oof, yes! I feel like it’s even more pressuring for women than men due to the “biological clock” thing, although not everyone wants kids

[@monus782]

@@whatthehellisthis I come from a Mexican immigrant background and as a single guy at 27 I've felt the pressure for never being in a relationship (but coming from a devout Catholic background as well for several years I thought I was meant to be a priest so for me that's the main reason) and I've felt that more from the surrounding American culture, maybe my ancestors would be disappointed or something but I'm sure they'd be hella pissed as well for me becoming an atheist. I don't want kids of my own at all (and am considering a vasectomy especially after all the shit the Supreme Court is doing) so I don't expect to get married before I'm 30, I could be wrong though.

[@1faithchick7]

Wait until you look back in time at European royalty and the upper class and... actually everyone lol! That culture carried over in evangelical 'christianity'. It isn't a par g of Christianity, it isn't in the new Testament to do that. It's a cultural, cultish thing Evangelicals tend to do a lot. I don't see that pressure as much in other wide Christian groups (except Mormonism).

[@DrummerGabs]

I fantasize much more about having a relationship than a wedding, but even though I don't really think much about the details of what my wedding would be like, I do know that if I ever have one I do want it to be absolutely fabulous.

[@Moocow2003]

I know I want archery and fairground games O_o

[@monus782]

It's the wedding and divorce stories that sometimes make me wonder if I really want a relationship or if it's something else while I'm still single (and sometimes lonely), if given the choice I'd rather have it as simple and affordable as possible unless someone else is willing to pay for a more elaborate ceremony (and of course my partner could have different expectations regarding that). For example one of my cousins got engaged recently and not only I wasn't envious of her but also I can only imagine what kind of stress she'll have to go through to have the ceremony, I'm looking forward to the wedding but I really hope it all works out for her.

[@sporer_]

8:47 she goes on to say they had endured rocky patches... IN A SIX MONTH RELATIONSHIP?!!?! It's insane enough to to be considering marriage after 6 mos., but not only that, a 6-month relationship which wasn't even that strong!!!!

[@sporer_]

whoops, should've waited to comment bc it gets brought up a minute later lol

[@emilyayers7471]

Not to be dramatic, but I would die for Kyra.

[@carpenoctumpoetry8400]

You can throw yourself a giant party if you want to without legally tying yourself to another human that you barely know…

[@Shadow-iv9ft]

Kyra's cameos are definitely a highlight of the videos and she's so photogenic, too; she looked fabulous in the glasses and scarf. :)

[@sunnyandthechlo]

My husband peeked over at the screen at that part and was like “look how proud that dog looks! Look at her!”

[@Mavisdundundunnnmanston]

I'm so glad my married friends all just had parties in their backyard. And make their own dresses. And turn the whole back deck into a taco bar!! Anyways, weddings are fun, but watching my married friends garden together is real true love.

[@tlibito]

Been married for 17 years, never had a wedding. Seemed like a waste of money and we don't like being around most of our family anyways. Our money was spent on starting a new adventure in life together, not some frivolous party

[@FinalSeraphLeo]

Hearing this just reminds me of the women I met in college while I was a part of Intervarsity Christian Fellowship. So many of them were rushing towards that marriage goal and it just lead to so many bad outcomes especially since so many of them came from well off backgrounds and had that fairy tale mindset (I apologize if that sounds demeaning, not trying to be)

[@sseraphim2818]

It is the truth. I've been around these types.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

I knew people in college who openly admitted they were only there for their “MRS degree”, which it’s fine if you want to get married, but why spend all that money on a degree if you don’t actually want one?? I have friends who started dating in high school & got married their sophomore year of college, & they’re happily married 15 years later! Like they are actually so good together. But I think it’s rare that that kind of situation works out longterm.

[@monus782]

I knew a girl like that but she probably did get her degree as a backup in case her wedding plans don't work out.

[@edvh88]

Even when you’re with someone who you love, it’s still a lot of work!

[@LilySaintSin]

For real!

[@josephjarosch8739]

NO. Love is not supposed to be a struggle. If you have to force yourself to tolerate them, then it is not love, it is a toxic relationship. If your personalities are complimentary, loving them is easy, spending time with them is fun, and any struggles you have are external.

[@LilySaintSin]

@@josephjarosch8739 No one's saying that. But you can't just walk away every time things get tough.

[@sophiaonearth6347]

@@josephjarosch8739 Loving a person may be easy, but relationships are certainly a challenge! Committed, long term relationships are about a lot more than just being in love.

[@lilaboxx]

I see why you might wanna have a fancy wedding and there's nothing wrong with this but when I think about eventually getting married I'd want to be happy to spend the most mundane moments with that person like just a calm Wednesday evening watching TV together or something like that

[@indigopines]

Tbh this is such a mood, and so wholesome

[@maddieg136]

One of my childhood friends has always obsessed over weddings and having children. It’s just weird because she knows I am not like that but has basically invited herself to be maid of honor already to my nonexistent wedding. She wasn’t very religious growing up but she has since gone way farther than I ever expected with religion and developed this weird dislike for people who ‘sin’ (lgbtq people, people who get abortions, etc) when before she didn’t have much of an issue with it. And has since tried to convince me why these ‘phenomenas’ are happening. No real evidence, not even Bible quotes she’s “just sure it’s in there somewhere” lol. It’s so bizarre to me how quickly religion can mold a mind to hating/fearing almost anyone that is different. It makes me really sad bc she was my best friend at one point :/ and now every time I talk to her she’s talking about how great religion and church is. And the worst part is she tries to convince me to go/ believe in whatever. It’s like she has completely forgot who I am! So bizarre but what can you do

[@Hippidippimahm]

Please just disengage with this person. They are trying to convert you and truly do not care for you as a person anymore. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this

[@hurricanejaney]

@@Hippidippimahm ^^^ this. it really hurts to stop interacting with someone you’ve known for so long, but it’ll be better for you in the long run. people like this see you as nothing but a token toward getting themselves into Heaven. it’s the worst and i’ve been in similar situations too many times. wishing the best for you 💖

[@1faithchick7]

Yeah that isn't religion. She's in a cult. Me and my Christian friends don't go around trying to convert people. Also, Jesus had no issue with LGBT. Abortion is killing a human being though. I don't say that because Bible, I say that because scientifically at conception the embryo has a unique set of DNA from the mother and father. Meaning, it isn't her body anymore. I rely on science for things like that. I don't care what a pastor says about it. All I care is, if it is a living human being according to science, no one should get to kill it. We need to push for artificial wombs for women who don't want to carry the kid for months. And encourage them giving children up for adoption without shame more too.

[@gingermaniac5484]

@@Hippidippimahm i disagree with the sentiment that "she doesnt care about you as a person anymore." for many religious people, especially those who are so conservative, they really do view converting as saving a person. her friend, in this brainwashed way IS trying to help because she cares, her views on how to show that effection are just being muddled by fear of if she can't get her friend (maddieg) to convert fast enough, if maddieg gets sick (or worse, hurt by those dreadful manipulative worldly people) and xtian-friend can't live the afterlife with her childhood bestie. in her mind what if maddieg suffers eternally because she(friend) didnt work hard enough to show her the light? that's not to say maddieg should just accept poor treatment or stand by while maddieg's friend spews hateful things (which is damaging) just, things like these are nuanced is all.

[@MasterOfBaiter]

The book:"does he satisfy you?" Me:"my mind is in the gutter" Rachel a second later:"my mind is in the gutter"

[@hades_town]

aaaaa i hate how they act like divorce is worse than staying in a bad relationship or with someone who they just aren't compatible with. that sounds absolutely miserable

[@michiyaslana5974]

A simple example why you need to explain the reasoning behind your argument: two people say "I hate brand X". One hates it because the company exploits labour in third world countries. The other hates it because the brand isn't exclusive enough and doesn't come in colours they like. Both said the dame thing, but boy did they say it for different reasons.

[@carolynj6144]

I think they’re really downplaying the importance of attraction though. I recently got out of an abusive relationship (which was the main problem), but because of the abuse, I also was not attracted to him at all anymore. Obviously you can’t sustain a relationship on lust alone, but the attraction should really be there more than they’re making it sound 😅 but I guess coming from the purity culture POV that they promote, it makes sense that they wouldn’t prioritize this for women. As long as the man is satisfied, everything is great 🙄

[@Ashbrash1998]

I remember a post I read talking about the day you get married that still sticks with me. "The wedding day is literally just another day". Which is so true, when I got married I had so much anxiety about getting married, because I built it up in my head like it would be a path of no return or everything would change. But afterwords, it was just another day, I didn't change, my love and my relationship didn't really change. We were still ourselves at the end of day. (Though to be fair we eloped with some close friends so there wasn't alot of ceremony or ritual besides the vows).

[@morgianasartre6709]

Sometimes I feel a bit alien for NOT dreaming of (or even wanting) a wedding, maybe it's because the only few ones I have attended were poor examples that left me with the impression that all a wedding is: a shit ton of planning, spending a bunch of money, stress and sweating, trying to please a bunch of people, being roped into traditional wedding stuff and games (that I hate the ideo of). None of it appeals to me and yet I could not elope as it would hurt my mom. So I avoid the subject with my partner as a whole.

[@RachelOates]

I can relate completely!

[@monus782]

If I ever get married then it probably won’t be before I’m 30 (and I feel fine regarding that) and if given the choice I prefer the ceremony to be as simple and affordable as possible and I came to that conclusion after hearing all the stories about all the expensive marriages ending in divorce not too long after alongside the reasons you mentioned. Since having the wedding with a Catholic mass is a tradition in my family I’ll try to fight tooth and nail if necessary to not have a religious ceremony as I refuse to support the Church in any way (mostly because I’m an apostate and closeted atheist for now, I’d have to come out if that is ever brought up as it would really feel hypocritical for me to do such ceremony even if it’s done for “cultural” reasons as many people do).

[@smolexfundie6458]

Ugh! They are so fcking judgy! 🤧 My husband still lived with his parents when we met. He played video games after work. I didn’t mind. I saw the drive he had to keep working on himself, and how he helped others, how he loved his family. I couldn’t imagine a better partner in my life.

[@plaguedfrost1753]

Have you guys played videogames together, that’s an awesome hobby to share…

[@RickReasonnz]

Is it just me, or did Justin use his "limited devotion to god" as a way to nope out of that relationship?

[@fallenbee]

To me I interpreted it as Justin not being as strict or traditional about his religious beliefs, maybe being more progressive, and Bethany just took it as he was saying that he didn't believe in God because to them their way is the only way to believe in God lol

[@S.M.9]

@@fallenbee yeah I think he realized how strict and black and white their views were and he probably was more of an easy going Christian (or on his way to be) or maybe decided he wasn’t really that into Christianity at all. Overall though definitely a good decision to dip out soon when he knew it wasn’t gunna work

[@stephaniewalker9955]

I’d bet money she went farther than a “good girl” would and that’s why she was heart broken for so long. Grew up in the church and know from experience a lot of Christian boys push it and then run.

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

I feel like she was probably so extreme it scared him away

[@Rinirinirinirin]

I can relate to an extent, actually. I haven't fantasized about my wedding day per se, but always fantasized about "epic love", "pure love", "the one" etc. I could be happy on my own if I didn't find my partner, sure, but not AS HAPPY. I always wanted a loving relationship. I'm a penguin kind of person, I want to bond for life and find the most happiness and harmony in relationships. At the same time, I'm a feminist and I support other women's choices whatever they may be. However.. GD's priorities seem to be off? I agree that fixating on the idea is unhealthy. That is, when you want a relationship for the sake of having a relationship; at this point, it's not about finding love and connection, it's about ticking a box. This is toxic.

[@kristenbuckley8451]

Penguin relationships aren’t as pure and wholesome as people think. They are a lot more like humans. Cheating, partner swapping, threesomes, and divorce are all things in penguin society as well. They can stay together for years and years but those are the exception rather than the rule, similar to humans.

[@medea__witchhh]

​@@kristenbuckley8451damn even the penguins don't have it figured out

[@girlwhomustnotbenamed4139]

The irony of them not realising that none pushes the idea of love and marriage being the end all be all of every person's (but especially every woman's) life more than their religion, and religions in general. Same with teaching people to ignore red flags etc. Their own toxic religious narrative does that, and it goes against every advancement in psychology that tries to change this juvenile way of thinking about love and relationships.

[@Flojer0]

As an exMormon: Adultery was defined for me as "Sex between unmarried" and fornication was "Sex between married but unfaithful". With the definition I grew up with I would say adultery is a non issue and fornication [cheating] is bad.

[@martaflorcremades282]

For me(catholic) fornication is any sex that is not meant to lead to children even between merried people it the are not aiming for a baby. Adultery is cheating.

[@ellebethv]

that’s really interesting! i don’t think i’ve heard those specific definitions before.

[@metademetra]

Funny I always viewed those definitions reversed. Fornication just sounded like frivolous sex to me, and adultery was and still does have a grave air around it. It's strange to hear the more taboo word get placed on the more innocent act. I hope do God they didn't do that on purpose.

[@martaflorcremades282]

@@metademetra for them its technically equally bad. I don't know many people who take it seriously anymore (only the opus dei members take it to that level), for many catholics anything that gives you physical pleasure is wrong (even eating non nutritious food like fast food and such), the aim is something else and if you get it cool but that's not cool. Pain and suffering takes you closer to god.

[@Flojer0]

@Princess Buttercup Fair enough, I just intended to share my past definitions and may have got them wrong. Great point among mormons on Males getting a larger pass than femalres though!

[@warlordofbritannia]

1:30 Ok, so for half a second there I was horrified that you were going to say Kyra had had a health problem to something Reality was far more wholesome 😂

[@lilaboxx]

Same I got so scared for a sec

[@RachelOates]

Sorryyyyyy, I didn't mean to scare anyone! Don't worry, her Ladyship is happy and healthy as ever and ready to celebrate with another wine glass full of water 😋

[@geraintthomas4343]

Same worry but the ad was worth it

[@annikapretorius5268]

I love your makeup! It actually matches the art piece on the wall 😍😂😍😍

[@edvh88]

Her top, too!

[@hottopiccowboy]

i understand the daydreaming about a wedding, i love the idea of weddings. ive always been a hopeless romantic. but its not like my dreaming of a wedding is a personality trait. half the fnu of dreaming about it is knowing i'll spend the rest of my life with the person im marrying. im excited just for that alone. but i love love, valintines day is one of my favorite holidays even when i was single i told this to my bf of 2 and a half years. i dont care what the ring is, it could be a ring pop. i'd still say yes because its him

[@laurajarrell6187]

Rachel, sorry, I have to make a second comment! As I go through this again, I realize, you read, I think and boom! You say what I'm thinking! These girls seem so shallow and sheltered. They don't seem to understand that a relationship takes work from both. Yes, we can now get out of marriage. But sometimes, some people just don't need to be married. I mean, as Mae West said, 'Marriage is a great institution. I'm just not ready to be institutionalized!' And I say, if love is a dream, marriage can be an alarm clock! Anyway, they will probably 'settle' and possibly not be as happy as they could have been, because of course, they MUST have kids. That is bad. 👍🥰💞✌

[@charischannah]

Teenage me daydreamed more about actual relationships rather than weddings. When I did get married, the wedding part was annoying and stressful. My spouse and I had a smallish wedding and if we were going to do it over again, we'd have an even smaller one. Honestly, if we had to do it over, we'd probably just do the paperwork with an officiant and a couple witnesses and then maybe a nice dinner. The wedding day has probably been one of the least important parts of our marriage, because it turns out that the things that build a long-term relationship have more to do with how we live our lives together than with a wedding.

[@IsThatEtchas]

I don't experience any relationship/sexual jealousy so ages ago, I had to really go deep into why cheating was wrong, because to me, it didn't make sense. Eventually I figured out it's because of the betrayal of trust and crossing a red line in the relationship and ignoring mutually agreed upon terms in the relationship. I respect you asking questions that could seem obvious to many people, because that really doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone.

[@mori6434]

So what's your perspective/opinion on it? Genuinely curious, if you'd be willing to share.

[@IsThatEtchas]

@@mori6434 On cheating?

[@mori6434]

@@IsThatEtchas yeah, or just more generally what you feel in absence of jealousy.

[@IsThatEtchas]

@@mori6434 Cheating is wrong for couples because there were clear boundaries set, one of them being sexual fidelity and to break that is crossing someone's stated boundaries. Basically the same as what someone would feel if their platonic friend went on a really nice date? I'm just happy for them and wanna hear about it. The idea of feeling jealousy around it doesn't make sense to me. I don't own my partner's genitals, why would I feel annoyed. It's overall a hard thing to explain. I have felt like this my entire life. It wasn't a decision on my part or something I reasoned out. I was actively telling people I didn't do monogamy when I was like 14.

[@mori6434]

@@IsThatEtchas hm, I guess that really is pretty straightforward. I'm aroace so I think I can kind of get what you mean when those feelings just aren't there, but there's not really a particular reason for why they're not. If a partner was still secretive about being with other people despite knowing you would support them, could that upset you? Not necessarily in a jealously sense, but more like hurt that they weren't being fully open or didn't trust you or something, if that makes sense?

[@katelynelms3062]

Kyra's commercial made me smile so much!!!

[@robinnilsson9487]

I'm an athiest and do not support girl defined, but I think its important to realize that their audience consists of pre-teen Christian girls. They wrote this book to appeal to that group specifically. The idealization of marriage, simple wording and immature statements, their goal is just to be relatable to their audience, so their audience bonds with them and continues to listen to their religious ideas. I think they could write at a higher level if they were targeting an older audience.

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

Good point, but I think it is more likely that they are naive then they are lying to their audience for the sake of being relatable.

[@leafash8969]

Well, ten minutes into the video and you’ve helped me realize that it isn’t the wedding I’m romanticizing, it’s the marriage itself. I don’t know why that’s comforting to me, but it is, so thank you haha

[@dragongirl7978]

Wow, thank you so much for what you said about Justin. I recently broke up with my boyfriend for kind of similar "can't see a future together" reasons and felt horrible about it because it hurt him, even though I thought it was the right decision. Felt like you were speaking directly to me, thank you.

[@sluttyMapleSyrup]

Rachel, I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but "facade" = "fa-sahd". You asked in the video, so I'm answering ❤

[@RachelOates]

Thank you!

[@sashabutongoogle4763]

kyra's ad made me grin so much, she's definitely one of the best dogs on the planet

[@alanamontero4743]

Fundie culture arrests emotional and relational development. Especially if single, people remain stuck in a perpetual mental adolescence.

[@moodylittleowl]

reminds me of a quote from an elderly lady who was married to her late husband for decades. when asked how did they last so long she simply said "he used to hit me and ive learned to endure it". some relationships should end

[@rachaelgray1125]

Hi Rachel, really insightful and very well thought out and spoken. The part about ending relationships was something that tbh I needed to hear, after having just ended a long term relationship myself. I really appreciate the commentary and looking forward to the following parts x

[@freelemonade9695]

My knee jerk instinct was to fill in the sentence to "I assumed Jacob would transform into a mature, faithful, pure, and godly... werewolf"

[@memyselfandi4173]

Their books seem very naïve, but I think that's by design. I suspect their sole target audience is Christian teen girls because in their view, if you're Christian and female, then getting married and starting to pop out babies is something you do when you're barely out of your teens. And for such girls, they probably have been dreaming about their wedding day all their lives. (Ugh!) So why write books for mature people with fully-developed brains? So, the Barbie Twins don't need to tell people why divorce and adultery and sex outside of marriage and all that is bad because their target audience already knows the answer: For the Bible Tells Me So. Their target audience has had this drummed into their heads since infancy, such that words like "why" never enter into their minds. And they haul out stories about "fairy tale love" and idealized romanticism and talk about celebrities and stuff because they think that's what teen girls are thinking about. (And maybe they are; it's been multiple decades since I was a teen.) Of course, their overall thrust is that all of that stuff doesn't work out because it's ungodly, and the proper way to go about things is just to marry the first fertile, Christian man who shows interest and then get pregnant as soon as possible and then stay married even if you're absolutely miserable and stop all that dating and independence nonsense. That's the way to go about it, according to these Barbies.

[@sapiensno8billion]

If I have understood this correctly one of these sisters married a man who was "cured of homosexuality". That piece of information alone is enough to ditch their relationship "advice" and run

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

So she is married to a bi person, ain’t thst a sin?

[@sapiensno8billion]

@@pokemonfanthings4444 If I have understood Christianity correctly, Gods son supposedly said "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8,7) However, an enormous percentage of Christians seem to ignore the entire "love thy neighbour"-apporach, and instead revel in judging, belittling and patronizing their neighbours en masse, while of course saying it's what God wants (which they magically know better than everyone else). I guess the warm, invigorating - if shortlived - feeling of being better bc you just made someone feel worse, is worth it.

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

@@sapiensno8billion I was (sorta) being sarcastic. I’m an atheist who was raised Catholic. Girl Defined thinks LGBT+ people are evil, but she’s too dumb/hateful to realize that her own life partner is likely under the bisexual umbrella. I don’t see anything wrong with people being religious as long as they don’t treat it like the truth and try to force other people into it, which is unfortunately the norm.

[@sapiensno8billion]

@@pokemonfanthings4444 so sorry, didn't get the sarcasm. I'll tuck my flaming sword away

[@ms.blooddiamond3857]

I mean I get fantasizing about your future wedding to a degree. I have this little collage of what I'd like mine to maybe look like one day. But there's a fine line between occasionally thinking about your wedding and obsession. I'd never get married for the party, which it seems like people like this do... which is so weird.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Wait, am I missing something here? Didn't one of these girls have a relationship they had to end, and they cried for weeks over it? How is that different then their criticism of "modern dating"? Is it because it was a "courtship" that ended because he wasn't Jesus-y enough, and that's okay to do? I don't get these women.

[@nachtegaelw5389]

Courting seems to have widely varying definitions, depending on who you talk to. The most common one I’ve come across is that courting is basically dating with the intention to determine if you want to marry the person or not, as opposed to dating someone “just for fun” without the expectation that it could head towards marriage. But that just seems like semantics…why not just call it dating but say you’re looking for a serious relationship?

[@kuroinekoworld]

It is interesting, because the Clark's family struggles with infertility. Kristen and her husband have adopted children from Ukraine, and I am worried about how they are helping the kids cope with everything happening right now. Their own sister risked having to give birth in Ukraine during the conflict, she had to escape after the war begun. I wonder if all this will open their eyes to other topics; for example, in regard to refuges and infertility. Sadly, it seems like at least Bethany - despite her own struggles with fertility - is still going on with her old ideas. She recently published a PDF with questions to "strengthen" your marriage. I hope Kristen is more reflective, even if I do not believe so. By the way, their mother is also on social media, it would be interesting to see Rachel react to her videos!

[@kathi9458]

Loved your analogy so I wrote it for my friend and added some more perspectives: don't force the pudding if life fulfills you you don't need desert. don't feel the pressure to eat desert cuz other people need it and society needs it. if the main course filled u U don't need it. you can always choose to eat more but if you're not sure you need it you should wait instead of it making you feel sick after. a desert is good if it fits in your meal and makes it better but not if its too much for the meal youre enjoying right now. you can always go for the desert later if you feel hungry for more. dont look at other peoples plate. concentrate on your needs. Eat what you want and not what others want. You know best what tastes good to you and what doesnt. dont force something in where there is no room. Maybe eventually youll have room and feel hungry thats youre sign to eat but only you can feel it. sometimes a meal is bad but you can choose to stop eating whenever you want and get a new meal that fulfills your needs. Sometimes there are meals you never gave a chance. finding the right food for u is all about trying out different foods from time to time. Trying new things helps you to get to know youre needs and likes and dislikes. some people choose unhealthily small portions and think it can fulfill them and thats a problem but everyone has it in them to learn how to treat yourself right and to listen to your body the right way. That's something that has to be learned by some but everyone has it in them. You have cravings and can learn how to satisfy them.

[@emmuart]

Filming Lady Kyra for the sponsorship is a genius move

[@sophie265]

I personally really hope to marry one day, but not in a really deep way. Like, yes, it's very practical, but mostly I'm really psycked about being able to throw a fun party for my friends and family, and to wear an opulent, pretty dress. Like marriage sounds fun, but I don't really think your relationship before and after marriage should be all that different, it should just be a fun day (and some practial legal stuff) IMO

[@cheeseisherelive753]

Same here! I wanna get married someday and have a wedding but it’s just gonna be a day to celebrate me and my partner 😁 so many weddings focus solely on the bride and I feel like that’s not right :(

[@wrinkleintime4257]

That’s what I have thought! I’m planning on living with and experiencing my partner in every way before getting married. Married is the logistical , legal, practical thing to do! But the relationship has to already be going strong and solid , and we already have to have had practice in working through things before we commit to her marriage thing. My bf’s parents had a messy divorce after being painfully married for years (they got married young and quick) and he has a similar perspective bc of it,we need to be solid before we ever get married (if we get to that point!) if we can’t have such a real relationship before getting married than we won’t survive getting married, and there’s no need to be.

[@cheeseisherelive753]

@@wrinkleintime4257 exactly, great points! Unfortunately I was raised a lot like the girls in this video but I’m so glad when I got old enough TO marry I didn’t. If I had rushed into marrying the first guy that asked I would be in such an abusive place 💀 I hope society continues to normalize taking the time to grow and nurture a relationship instead of handling them so hastily!

[@monus782]

As a single guy I fantasize a lot more often of having a relationship than the wedding itself, if given the choice I'd rather have it as simple and affordable as possible and I came to this conclusion after hearing all the stories of expensive weddings ending in divorce not long after. Having a religious ceremony is a bit of a tradition in my family and if necessary I'll try my best not to have it at all mainly because I refuse to support the church I was part of in any way including financially.

[@jb76489]

You’re like if capitalism was a person

[@manofultimatepotatos]

I could sit here and watch Miss Lady Kyra being fancy for an hour and never get bored. But might cry from the overwhelming cuteness and royalty.

[@zerozeroren]

Really like your "relationship as dessert" metaphor. Because one can't sustain themselves on dessert alone. If your life is a total mess, but your partner is good, well, your life is still a mess and needs to be worked on. You need a balanced meal, and having a dessert sorted out helps, because you know that you at least won't go hungry, but to feel truly full[filled], you'd have to prepare yourself a good dinner still.

[@LittleMadameAnything]

That sponsorship ad was sooooo cute and wholesome!!!!! 😭💗

[@lilaboxx]

That's the most wholesome sponsorship I've ever seen

[@mattimoodle5160]

Whenever they talk about love at first sight I am once again reminded that people can really feel instant attraction like that, and I am just a simple confused asexual

[@mori6434]

Same. Also get confused and irritated in fiction when people make dumb, rash decisions because they've got the hots for someone. Like, does being horny really make it that hard to think rationally? Y'all can keep it, sounds exhausting tbh

[@maddie19]

I love that you ask the “obvious” questions, because I do the same thing. One of the reasons I enjoy your videos is that we explain our thought processes and try to explore topics in a similar way

[@patitolindo]

Okay I'm not hating but the couples look like siblings

[@brunetteartist24]

Ngl if i didn't know the context id think the same

[@frozenraspberries1552]

Your color palette today is💫 stuNning💫. Makeup, hair, nails, outfit, everything

[@OverprotectedAtheist]

I was the same way when I was a Christian and young. I only dated my ex-husband for 6 months when we got engaged. We were married a year later. All the adults in our lives were pushing us to get married because that is what young Christian couples do. I look back now and cringe at the fact that we were kids who had no idea what we were doing, and we should never have gotten married. The church pushes this idea, and it is horrible for people who do not even know who they are yet.

[@ElFayefaye]

Oh! The makeup and blouse color choice is divine!

[@katla_phc]

Omg the Kyra commercial, I love her 🥰