"Racism, Sexism And Misogyny All Come From Capitalism" - Demonmama vs Econoboi Debate

[@LastNightDestiny]

Check out Econoboi ►kzbin.info THUMBNAIL - twitter.com/senkyyo

[@danielswinger2986]

Lol

[@Econoboi]

I hope you all enjoyed the talk!

[@asimplewizard]

Watched it on your channel first. She is insufferable.

[@lemonheadkw2493]

Yeah you’re great! Subbed, but I can’t watch this video again hahah…

[@TheAwesomoe]

It's a modern day theater or circus. You go and watch the absurd, thank you for being the contrast to the absurd :)

[@exoticspoon6117]

I did. Thank you

[@Eridu]

It was really good, I've subbed to your channel now :D

[@jetjet6560]

Demon Mama may be the most skilled talker at not actually saying anything!

[@2fated]

Lmao fr

[@wisetrollman]

Vaush created and platformed them, so not a big surprise.

[@lucasdebiasio332]

You’ve never heard Michael Dyson speak then

[@policevanposition1993]

So a politician..lol

[@Eridu]

Its honestly respectable and impressive

[@PhreakPhantom]

I love how DM and Vaush somehow sound reasonable to their cattle when, in reality it is at best a moderate eloquent word salad of zero substance.

[@christophewells3918]

Thank you

[@derpmanTV]

Political compass: Vowsh DM (enlightened centrist)

[@ksilva2848]

@@derpmanTV dafuq? DM away from Vaush?

[@Car-qu2bc]

@She belongs to the Skreets True. I have my problems with vaush, but he’s INFINITELY more intelligent than demonmama

[@acason4]

Vaush is far more intelligent than Demon Mama. He’s not just spouting delusional word salad…🤦🏼‍♂️

[@pommiebears]

UK isn’t SOCIALIST! I’m English, and we’re capitalists, we have free markets. I really hate it when people refer to countries in Europe as socialism.

[@johntheidiot9046]

Wait, UK's not in Europe..?

[@pommiebears]

@@johntheidiot9046 erm….yeah. That’s what I wrote. I hate it when people refer to countries in Europe, as socialist countries. They often use Sweden, Norway, Britain, ect. None of them are socialist.

[@iobject1421]

@@pommiebears Bernie caused this pheonomium

[@bosniankumquat1835]

@@pommiebears Its funny because you need strong markets and capitalism to fund a welfare state.

[@jessiferxoxo]

the uk is not even close to a free market society. we are 30th on the 2024 index of economic freedom, being 68.6 out of 100.

[@Alaric11]

Ahh so I finally understand the leftist definition of capitalism. It means "everything I don't like".

[@frostedlambs]

There Are communist co ops where non of the workers get paid anything

[@DaDARKPass]

I mean, it's not surprising. These people are populists - they center their entire worldview on a big baddie ruining everything.

[@GuyDude-hk8uy]

@marmite_popsicle Nazism, fascism etc.

[@hobbabobba7912]

Can we let this coconut thing die, it is really frustrating and not analogous to modern capitalism.

[@ShinkuHadouken]

t.guy working for them coconuts

[@dkoykoala1488]

I need to get me some cocconuts

[@Stop_Gooning]

Lol my problem with the coconut island analogy is that the obvious solution is to kill the coconut man, take the coconuts and cannibalize his flesh. "Yeah, real shame I was the only one who survived the crash *belch"*

[@djon3043]

@@Stop_Gooningno wonder every socialist revolution has ended in a simple changing of coconuts from one persons hands to another… And reeducation camps where people can be sent to for even thinking about stealing his-I mean the PARTY’s-coconuts.

[@krispyasfk2567]

Semen Trauma can never engage with the actual point of a discussion and always just rambles incessantly about nothing just to virtue signal to her audience. It's maddening.

[@granthanson9086]

fucking dying not seen that nickname before

[@krispyasfk2567]

@@granthanson9086 That's because little old me created it. Been trying to spread it around but it's not catching on yet lol.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Semen.Trauma... I dont even.

[@krispyasfk2567]

@Danny Dreadnought Nothing would bring me greater joy.

[@antmane7]

😂 me and my best friend have such a dumb sense of humor, we actually would make nicknames like this all the time for people. Just replace their names with rhymes and we laughed our ass off. Semen trauma is a callback to those days I’m dying right now

[@moonlapsevertigo2432]

I always feel like 99% of arguments "socialists" make against "capitalism" are arguments that would apply to market socialism as well. Unless you go full anarcho communist, or stalinist or whatever, you're still going to have a profit motive and market competition with "socialism," just the means of production for the individual companies would be owned collectively by the workers

[@735337707]

Well, the ones calling themselves Anarcho communists are hilarious. The fact that the irony in their label escape them..

[@Reese842]

If you think we live in a capitalistic society then you're wrong. It's more corporate welfare than anything else.

[@oopsiepoopsie2898]

Yeah I don’t get it if people’s lives are slowing getting better that’s still a good thing.

[@Reese842]

@@oopsiepoopsie2898 we have a few that are benefitting greatly meanwhile wages have stagnated for 40 years ... wages haven't kept up with inflation meanwhile everything else has increased in cost.

[@oopsiepoopsie2898]

@@Reese842 yeah no shit, but at least no child minors anymore. Well in the states.

[@AustinRxxxx]

I’m sure DM has a lot to say about the Rittenhouse trial, I hope we get a video on that

[@aviztar]

I come from a former communist country, and it makes me livid whenever I see these American leftists talk about communism as if they have any sort of ideea what this ideology actually is. And that goes double whenever they mention one of our countries as an example of the benefits of communism - like when Wolff said that the industrialization of the Soviet Union was a positive thing despite the fact that nobody in this part of the world (not even Putin) thinks that was a good. Quite the opposite, we condemn it due to the lives it cost, the things that were lost and the damage it did to the environment. It's intersting that none of these leftists ever sit down and actually talk to a person from a former communist country that isn't suffering from Stockholm Syndrome (ex. Slavoj) and be challenged on their preconception. Granted, it wouldn't be much of a debate, just us saying "you're wrong" over and over again whenever they make a claim like "racism, sexism and misogyny all come from capitalism" (reality check: we all had that)

[@Mogrir]

By your name, I'm guessing Romania? I feel like I don't see a lot of discussion about how Soviet conquest/policies impacted the satellite states in the Pact, and I wonder if that's why American lefties gloss over it. The problem is that these people absorb themselves in theory and literature (or, well, most of them pretend to) but never look at how things work out practically in reality. Hell, you could actually move significantly towards forming a method of implementing communism that wasn't a colossal clusterfuck if you sat down and analyzed why things went wrong for prior countries. Also if the "jokes" peddled by Vaush's community or other Twitch leftists are anything to go off of, they think Europeans are inferior anyway. Cuz, y'yknow, Murricans.

[@aviztar]

@@Mogrir Yeah, I'm Romanian. As for why the American lefties gloss over it (apart from the obvious reason that it would challenge their world view, which is something they cannot stand), well... it isn't just one reason, there are many and are very complex, but I will try to offer a simplified version of it: 1. When they do talk to people from the former Soviet and Communist states, it's with the ones suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, like Slavoj Zizek, who have made an artform of ignoring or not bringing up the bad parts of communism - for example, they would never correct Wolfe on his statement about the industrialization of communist states as a positive, despite the fact that they know it is the source of a lot of our troubles with polution, where done through glorified slave labour and cost the lives of many workers. 2. If they don't talk to the Sotckholm Syndorme set, then its with the liberal kids, who do not know a lot about the communist years - through a combination of bad education (in Romanian schools for example, kids are not taught about Decree 770, which enforced the strictest anti-abortion laws in the world, they have to learn it from their parents or through media depictions of the era), our very faulty and regresive humanities colleges (the philosophy or history colleges are a disaster), and their parroting of "western talking points" - because they have to self-educate, they turn to the works in the secondary language most are taught in school, which is english, and once it is combined with their faulty knowledge of our history, they apply onto our society traits that do not exist. Adam Something is a great example of this, he's a Hungarian youtuber who views himself as part of the left, but if he was born and bread in the west, he would be viewed as a liberal (and even conservative due to his views on Russia), and yet with Vaush they pretented to be on the same page ideologically, since Vaush does not know a thing about the region and Adam does not have any ability for self-reflection and is a product of the sabotaged local educational system 3. Most of the visible anti-communist pundits in Eastern Europe are part of the Authoritarian right and support Victor Orban or the PIS party of Poland - the ones that ascociate with the alt-right. So their arguments are polluted and easily dismised by anyone in the West. The pundits that actually know what they are talking about and have a ballanced, informed and well-intentioned view of what Eastern Europe actually is and was aren't fluent in english or are not well known and promoted in the west. If you want a good example, that would be Kraut, he comes closest than anyone to what the eastern european intellectual (the one that can fight back against pro-communism claims) should be, could debate the american leftists and is accessible to a western audience. Those are 3 reasons, there are many more, but that would require writting an entire book. But in terms of figuring out what didn't work in communism... well... in short human nature - the communist countries discovered that humans, in general, don't care about owning the means of production (they just carred about getting their share); didn't care about solidarity (either social, racial, based on gender) and would sell anyone out to get ahead; don't like equality because once they have it (or is impossed on them), they will instinctually either shut down and not care about anything (the Benjamin types), will be parrasites that try everything and anything to be "more equal than others" (the Napolean types) or will be abused due to actually beliving in this dogma (the Boxer types). And, if you want me to be honest, I hate whenever someone suggests that communism could be done better. To me it's another example of the lack of education regarding the history of our countries - not all the communist countries were the same. Poland and Yugoslavia adhered to the international communist ideology (simimlar to Bolivia and Venezuela), Romania was a national and isolationist communist country (similar to Cuba or North Koreea), Hungary and CzechoSlovakia had very liberal (even socialist) and permisive communist regimes. In short, we tried everything and anything to make it work for decades, and it didn't work, because communism simply does not work - the realities of human nature just get in the way.

[@Mogrir]

@@aviztar RE point 1: Yeah I feel like I only ever saw pro-communist speakers from the occupied countries speaking in western/american lefty circles for just that reason. I have heard though that in some former communist countries that there are older folks who lived in it that act like what the country is like now is worse, and they'd rather go back to how it was. I want to say I've heard this mostly in Russia, but I'd be curious how true that is and if it applies elsewhere. RE point 2: I'm curious what you mean by the humanities colleges being a disaster, but I'm also guessing that's a whole separate can of worms too. RE point 3: This is the biggest problem, I think, because this was the most common "point" I saw from online lefties in particular. People act like if you are against communism, you must therefore be fascist, or whatever they deem to be the opposite right-wing version, even if you hate both like Destiny. Centrists are, as always, hated by both sides. I've watched some of Kraut before but I don't know how stable he is considering the shitstorms he's been involved with in the past, and his historical videos come across as him having decided on an endgoal and building backwards from it. Lastly, I definitely agree on the thing about human nature running counter-intuitive to the tenets of communism, because of how disastrous the results have been so far. All of our modern forms of government have lasted as long as they have because they worked, where the experiments with fascism and communism in the mid century didn't work out too well. I suspect what is more grating than "communism could be done better" are the "well that wasn't REAL communism" types.

[@muninnsays9296]

@@aviztar I would probably define myself as being on the right (I’m German, so German political right) and it enraged me when conservatives praise Fidesz and PiS, they seem to not understand or care about what they do to their countries and just rely on platitudes and sound bites that support their views as marks of policy.

[@muninnsays9296]

@@Mogrir we have that in eastern Germany among our older generation, but it’s not a nostalgia for communism but a nostalgia for the community solidarity and conservative values of the DDR. The most popular political parties in the east are the AFD and Die Linke, Die Linke was mostly abandoned by the east when the AFD came to prominence because the AFD represents those values more.

[@angusmarch1066]

So, like, I guess the Stalinist regime wasnt extremely racist towards Baltic people and didnt push tradcon gender norms apart from during the war when it was all hands on deck?

[@snigeling]

And Stalin def never hated the jews either, nope all of the failures of Stalin were actually Capitalists ruining things.

[@ksilva2848]

Nonsense there was no such thing in the great USSR BINGQILIN

[@user-co7fo]

Nah man, it was state capitalism. So it wasn't socialism. Checkmate. /s

[@sirlaggzzalot]

Haven't you heard the Soviets weren't Communists and Socialists The Twitter people said so

[@cs.flippz9152]

@@user-co7fo no

[@carlmencia2919]

I don't like Vaush, but one thing from Vaush that DM didn't really seem to grasp from him, at least in my opinion, was the coconut island analogy. Like it or hate it, the coconut island analogy is supposed to argue that whoever ultimately accumulates the most capital/means of production (the coconuts, in this instance) in a capitalist economy ultimately relies on a lot of luck, and it's pretty arbitrary who gets to own that capital and decide how it is distributed. Vaush uses it to argue that the people on the island should have a more equitable distribution of the coconuts so that everyone on the island has the same amount of bargaining power in society, so there are no unjust demands placed on the people who lack the coconuts. He doesn't invoke the analogy to make the point "hey, it sucks that people have to work so that they can survive".

[@MysterousBear]

I might be wrong, but wasn't the coconut analogy created to illustrate coercion inherent in capatalism? Like the point was that the guy with all the coconuts isn't _forcing_ anyone to spitshine his Johnson, he's just offering coconuts in exchange for a service and offering the trade. It just so happens that if you don't blow him you starve to death. The setting of the guy having all the coconuts was just a fast track way of representing being born into a world where other people already has all the resources locked down, and your either doing what you're asked to do, or your starving to death. I'm pretty sure it was from a debate with a pro capitalist insisting that there is no coercion in capatalism because nobody is _forced_ to work.

[@carlmencia2919]

@@MysterousBear I think a large component is that, yes, capitalism is coercive, but I think the arbitrary nature of who gets to own the most capital is also a large part of it. The guy who owns all the coconuts isn't given the divine right of coconuts, or necessarily has the highest IQ or merit. He just woke up first, the same way a lot of people become wealthy through luck or intergenerational wealth, etc.

[@justliving920]

@@carlmencia2919 The analogy honestly has a real easy answer. Just plant the coconuts you earn. There. You take your coconuts, make a long term investment in planting them, and then down the line you will have your own coconuts and live off of them. The analogy is meant to be really philosophical but has a really easy answer.

[@JeffPenaify]

@@MysterousBear I think the analogy is useless because we’re not on an island with simply one resource, sucking dick for coconuts won’t sustain you lol and on an island with no laws nothing is stopping the most ruthless person from just killing the guy with coconuts and raping whoever. It’s a really bad analogy, there is no capitalism on a stranded island with 1 resource

[@MysterousBear]

@@JeffPenaify "put you on an island with simplified resources" is like, an often used recipe for political analogies man :L I just woke up so I forget names, but look up the photographer and the tennis player (I think) which is about entitlement to resources, and there was another one more about political organization that escapes me now. That's the crazy thing about Vaush's coconut analogy: I think the guy is a chump most of the time, but he did a great job creating an analogy to explain coercion in capatalism.

[@junimeme5626]

I tripped and fell. Damn you capitalism!

[@LordJudgement1818]

You were born. Damn you capitalism

[@drakehero64]

I fucking love this channel man. I don’t always have the time to watch his stream so I like watching the videos on KZbin or listen to them while I’m driving

[@ksilva2848]

Nodders yeah this and the Vault are really good

[@trashtie4854]

August finally remembered the password to this channel

[@cdubsb3831]

Not five seconds in and shes using the dumb coconut analogy.

[@cdubsb3831]

It's inaccurate and makes me want to commit sewer slide.

[@disappointedoptimist255]

It's not dumb in the context Vaush used it, even he said people need to stop using it as an analogy for the entirety of capitalism

[@cdubsb3831]

@@disappointedoptimist255 even in Vaush's analogy its not great.

[@Dizzifying1]

@@cdubsb3831 Exactly. Vaush doesn't seem to understand coconuts aren't the only resource on the island. If the only thing that you can offer the other person for food is a wet mouth, then your opponent has no reason to feed you. If your opponent is spending all of their effort stockpiling and defending their coconuts then they aren't building a shelter, gathering firewood, getting freshwater, etc. The coconut analogy is actually a defense of capitalism because it shows that even without the ability to sustain yourself with food, that you can still survive in a society with other work... no state required.

[@Goy_1Da]

“She” lol

[@majdjinn5042]

25/hr to 58/hr working in a nuke plant. I'm dumb. Not unwilling And so do garbage men. Honestly a lot of shit jobs pay great

[@evanfreund5651]

Nuclear plants actually have high standards to ensure safety but garbage men & sewage are great examples of your point

[@calculator91]

It's so weird.. I feel like all the union praise comes from people not in unions. From my experience, it costs a lot of money over the long term and due to their nature inevitably protects the worst members at the expense of everyone else. Unions have their place at times, but these large permanent unions with their own corporate structures and staff start to gain incentives that may not be aligned with the majority they supposedly represent.

[@Stop_Gooning]

There's a reason why labor unions always have strong Mafia ties.

[@hugmonger]

"I've never seen a company buy back stock in a way that made major changes...." Forgot about the Kaiba Corp hostile take over by the owners son already SMH

[@vinderpsen7393]

I actually get brain rot when I listen to DM

[@kurlzzfjartson6424]

btw 3000 dollar in sweden is like pretty good LULW specially a month for nothing

[@drizzy0712]

Dm always has the quietest content ever, turn it up pleeeaaaasse

[@Frosty-oj6hw]

It is always just worth asking these people, that if they want things like worker coops or co-ownership of the means of production, why they don't just band together and start businesses with contracts drawn up to allow for this, you can start the business with as many shares as you like and distribute them evenly (or however you like) among all the workers, then you can pay all excess profit back to the share owners as divedends, that way there's no "stealing" someones excess labour. The 2 big problems is that 1 they've never run a business and wouldn't know how to start one. They require up front effort and investment to get started. If they invested their own money, or were liable for loans to start the business, then when you grow the business why would you dilute your own shares and hand them over to workers who you hire, since they did none of the up front work and took no risk with the loans. This gets to the heart of the problem, which answers the question of what does the "owners" bring to the table in the current system, why are they allowed to receive that excess profit from other people, and it's because they took those risks, put in the work. The 2nd question to ask them is if this is all possible with free association under a free market capitalism model, then what would they have to change to get their utopian ideal, and the answer to that is using force. They forcibly need to make people participate in the system because all the capitalistic businesses basically outpace the coops. So if you're interested in something like maximum freedom for individuals, actually forcing them to take part in something is reducing freedoms.

[@JustN0tMe]

The latest "gen" of political streamers (as in those rising up to prominence) is far better than the other "gens". IRI(he's getting recognition now, despite streaming for 4 years) Rose Wrist Econoboi Shark3ozero Eristrocacy Counterpoints Despite their different views have more nuance than 90% of the other political streamers and they appear to do more research than their older counterparts, while maintaining some level of good faith in their interactions

[@SnakeTheHat]

who's IRI?

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Might help that this new generation isnt mentally ill.

[@JustN0tMe]

@@SnakeTheHat ImReallyImportant

[@JustN0tMe]

@@CrestOfArtorias It's sad to see my fellow millennials reach this point😅 How did you get the Crest? 1-Through the hydra path 2-Bought it 3-Committed a sin

[@TheGeniusRap]

Eristoacracy is an uwu imperialist

[@theanonymoustalk]

13:05 I’d say “ease of cash flow” could also be called “risk” right, or does that not work?

[@bludragon47]

Companies typically do not re-issue treasury shares. It would dilute existing shareholders and hurt the price.

[@LordJudgement1818]

So when capitalism was not a thing an we were living in feudal systems an raiding for resources their wasn't any hate? Just when capitalism showed up. 👍 Sure makes total sense

[@nikmarshall2989]

Hey, I’ll chime in as a friendly lefty. The thing is that socialism is largely a theoretical system. We all agree we want to democratize the workplace to the furthest reasonable extent, but we all disagree with what that would entail. Most of us (myself included) are neither future tellers nor economists, so we can’t tell you exactly what that would result in or look like. It’d depend a lot on the context of the society. I will say I *super* agree that getting rid of capitalism won’t get rid of or solve other unjust hierarchies, but I think weakening those hierarchies can weaken the most extreme of capitalist exploitations, and possibly start to provide a route to another system.

[@silversalmon9909]

I find it interesting you introduce yourself as a friendly lefty lmao. Do you know who destiny is?

[@nikmarshall2989]

@@silversalmon9909 yeah, he’s a friendly (if a bit edgy) liberal. I’ve even met him.

[@silversalmon9909]

@@nikmarshall2989 ah ok. Cuz usually when someone's introduces like that it's because they don't think the community is left. But that's cool, where did you meet him

[@nikmarshall2989]

@@silversalmon9909 I think his community is really diverse politically. We met when he was doing canvassing stuff in Georgia. I was already looking to do more activism supporting Warnock’s campaign so I got pretty involved with the Canvassing in Columbus. There were folks there ranging from moderate liberals to socialists and some casual debates going on at times before canvassing shifts. Steven seemed really chill in person.

[@tedarcher9120]

In fact, only capitalism allowed for sexism and racism to decrease. In a traditional society there are no incentives to be less bigoted

[@edwardhim2276]

What would you consider a traditional society?

[@tedarcher9120]

@@edwardhim2276 a society where tradition is the ultimate authority, obviously

[@josephcoon5809]

@@tedarcher9120 Do you make a habit of defining terms with those terms? What do you think “traditional” means?

[@tedarcher9120]

@@josephcoon5809 traditional means having something to do with tradition. Traditional society means a society with orientation on tradition, without any difference between family, business, or jobs.

[@josephcoon5809]

@@tedarcher9120 “Traditional means having something to do with tradition.” Great. Thanks.

[@Vinzaf]

They don't want to just be a basketweaver. They want to be a bespoke basketweaver!

[@marcmacaluso2795]

I am so over these lunatics taking Sociological Affirmations of faith & calling it "Science"

[@ShazySoft]

As a socialist, it does bother me whenever fellow socialists make utopian claims that an economic transition to socialism would magically solve all societal ills. I think, maybe, it would make solving some issues slightly easier, but on the whole it's really important to pair that kind of change with a commensurate social change. Worker coops aren't going to make conservatives any less bigoted, but better education might.

[@jamespateluniversity]

Right in my feeeeeed

[@policevanposition1993]

Demon Mama the master of moving the goal Post.

[@1999_reborn]

So much fucking content in my feed holy shit

[@tekokid7028]

Why do people think you should just get money for free... I don't understand it

[@curtisyue182]

Until we've got everything automated Factorio-style, somebody's got to do work!

[@Off-Brand_Devin]

I'm not sure of the utility of the desert island coconut economy thought experiment if it doesn't take into consideration the "customers" might one day get fed up with the coconut kingpin and bite down.

[@Stop_Gooning]

Day 1: * Be Coconut Man* "every time you suck me to completion I'll give you a coconut" Day 1: *Be me* "...and I was the only survivor..."

[@BP-or2iu]

So there was no misogyny 1,000 years ago?

[@curtisyue182]

Hah, true!

[@LordJudgement1818]

Nah bro just dudes being bros as they raped an pillage but we're very respectful. It was a mostly peaceful razing

[@fivepoint2]

When will people stop using the stupid coconut analogy?

[@lokkol8658]

MY BRAIN IT'S DYING

[@heathermason7875]

Will destiny react to the recent DM vs Rose Wrist debate

[@dotanon]

So we want people to have the option not to participate in society but still reap the rewards of society?

[@broobit7540]

Comparing stock buybacks to dividends misses a lot. From a shareholder’s perspective, stock buybacks are comparable to dividends, but from a company’s perspective, stock buybacks are comparable to retiring debt. So, when a company does a stock buyback, they’re deleveraging in a way that returns value to shareholders.

[@martman1466]

How is it deleveraging? The company doesn't "owe" the shareholders a sum that has to be paid back. In fact, a lot of share buybacks are made with newly borrowed funds which actually makes the company more leveraged.

[@ManicMovesDrowsyDreams]

Marx wrote that wherever the bourgeoisie become popular they flatten feudal and patriarchal hierarchies, in the Communist Manifesto.

[@undeadman7676]

I’m a little bit offended that you referred to working at a nuclear power plant as a shit job.

[@NumeroSystem]

Those things do come from the primary discrimination policy, which is the selective distribution of the issuance of money, and this policy of distribution is a capitalist policy. So, yeah, I can see that.

[@xwrathsx]

Insider trading - As an insider for a company if you own stock and have access to information the public may not there are trade windows set up periods of time after reports in which you have to decide wheather to keep or sell

[@Jaqi9892]

No she's not refuse answer

[@Megelos]

Am I insane for thinking the UK's trans thing being limited to 16 year olds are ok? You might be doing something that might be irreversible since you'd probably be going through puberty so if you regret... There's not really a way of going back and I don't think anyone younger than 16 should be worried that much about their gender, unless actively affecting their life.

[@ataraxia7439]

So the thing is that there will be permanent effects that a person can deeply regret that you can’t go back from whether or not someone does any kind of transitioning. You don’t eliminate all risk just by keeping people from being able to transition in anyway. The only real position that makes sense is to make a cost benefit analysis where you try to minimize risk and maximize good outcomes. A trans girl being forced to go through the early stages of male puberty can be a horrifying experience that leaves their face permanent masculine s and can make them feel like they were being condemned to being deformed. Imagine if a young cis boy had a medical condition that made them start to grow boobs and female hips and they hated it and we had the medicine to stop it but didn’t let him have access to it because we were worried he might regret not getting boobs and hips despite not wanting them now. That outcome is possible is and we should try to minimize its but it would be crazy to base our decision for the boy solely on avoiding it. The same holds try for young trans people.

[@ataraxia7439]

Also this is really fair and understandable concern. I hope I didn’t come off as confrontational or anything.

[@Megelos]

@@ataraxia7439 I was about to edit my comment to make it clear that I'm aware of the permanent effects puberty ALSO has, but the argument that I was using in conjunction with it is the fact that someone younger than 16 might not have the intellectual or mature development to make that decision.

[@ataraxia7439]

@@Megelos Okay sure but a decision to not have puberty blockers is still a decision being made. So even if we both agree someone at that age doesn't have the capacity to make an informed choice that still doesn't give us any idea of whether or not they should have puberty blockers.

[@ataraxia7439]

The point is not having puberty blockers also has irreversible effects that wreck a person horrifically and not having them is still just as much a choice being made as not. I really think the only valid perspective on this is to make a risk/benefit analysis based on our best understanding of what's most likely to give a person the best outcome. That's never going to translate to forcing everyone through a cis puberty.

[@drewbydoobydoo2918]

As far as stock buy-backs, I there are massive differentiators from dividends, which should have been the focus here. Ownership and voting rights. A company can absolutely have majority ownership of itself. The shareholders elect board members of a company, who in turn can hire/fire CEO and other executive positions. This can be detrimental to the company and all the employees who work there. I realize this was touched on, but here is some more context and information for anyone interested. A large private equity firm may hold 33% of your company's stock. That gives them an enormous sway on your board and leadership. The board can influence your company in ways that can drive it into the ground either intentionally or not. A buy-back allows the company to buy back more ownership of itself, and take control back from large shareholders. There will be roadblocks to this, but it can and has been done before. This is not easy though, and you often have to have a private equity firm to work with who will offer a pretty premium to every shareholder to take back control of your board, and you are then indebted to them. Dell famously did this, and it probably saved the company. Many of the shareholders were making decisions for/putting pressure on the company to maximize short-term stock gains. This is extraordinarily risky, and the company made some big mistakes. The company used a leveraged buy-back to take Dell private again. This allowed the executives of the company (who probably did not want to see the company go bankrupt) to focus on long-term strategy, without being beholden to a board of directors and speculative investors. This likely saved Dell from becoming a failed company.

[@n.d.4038]

It just sounds like a person who wants free money...are you assuming that every person will just pick up a hobby and be happier? What about drug addiction and alcoholics? Not to mention where does the government get this money...who is going to man all the mandatory systems we need to live? They just stay at work so you an sit at home...that's slavery.

[@KyleAPemberton]

LUL SHE NEVER ANSWERS THE ACTUAL QUESTION.

[@Goy_1Da]

“She” lmao

[@alexstam2433]

@@Goy_1Da transphobia

[@squirrel1331]

​@@alexstam2433based

[@Rizhiy13]

34:09 Stock buybacks are not about speculation, it is literally tax optimisation. Dividends are taxed twice, first as corporate tax then as dividend tax, which is not efficient and also arguably unfair.

[@martman1466]

Stock buybacks, like dividends, are also made with after-tax dollars...i.e the money spent for either is not deductible as a business expense. Also, because share buybacks increase the earnings per share of the remaining outstanding shares, when the shareholder later sells his stock, it should, theoretically, be at a higher price than otherwise and the capital gains tax he pays would be higher than otherwise.

[@z0mbiebanana9891]

4:27 Econoboi comes in

[@bludragon47]

Argument for stock buybacks: dividends are double taxed. The profits are already taxed at the corporate level, then is being paid out on the distribution. He’s also mischaracterizing buybacks. You’re no speculating on stock, you’re retiring it which leaves existing shareholders with larger proportions of ownership.

[@PoorEdward]

21:10 yeah let’s shuffle surgeons around lmao, sounds amazin’. What about accountants and entertainers?

[@hugmonger]

I hate this whole "No one wants to clean toilets" cuz like sure I dont SPECIFICALLY WANT to clean toilets, but also like... I am very risk averse and the idea of going to college to learn skills that I might never be able to capitalize on is... insane to me. I dont want to go to college and pay tens of thousands of dollars for a degree that I cant use, so like Sanitation work, warehouse work, factory work these are all pretty good imo.

[@ahabgaddis7277]

I'd clean toilets all day if the pay was good and I could listen to podcasts all day while I worked. Would be awesome

[@hugmonger]

@@ahabgaddis7277 the pay was okay. Sadly not the $25/hr or w/e it is to be able to live off in the area but still it was like... $15ish i think

[@gamingwhilebroken2355]

@@hugmonger I’m not in custodian in my union, but they are there and they make 22-35$ (Canadian) and hour. They also have full health benefits and they get the same awesome retirement plan I get. Whenever I know someone lookin go for work I always tell them to go there as it’s an amazing job and you are not getting fired (as my supervisor says, “the only way they’re getting rid of you is if you murder someone and then refuse to dispose of the body.”)

[@hugmonger]

@@gamingwhilebroken2355 So one of the important things in these conversations is to actually avoid talking about pay because remember Paracon folks are often communist aligned so the idea of markets and so on run counter to their ideology anyway. Instead I like to think of the flip side which is Liability. I don't want the LIABILITY that comes with other jobs. My toilet scrubbing gig is low liability, as long as no one is getting infected ass diseases or what ever my job is good. It's very low liability, but under a Participatory Economics view I'd also be liable for what ever else goes on in that business. Sales? You have to do them if you want to clean toilets. Surgery. Yep that too. Law? Get our your phoenix right sound track cuz you're defending that person. All because I am cool cleaning toilets wherever

[@drewferguson4787]

Going to college for a worthless degree and spending 10s of thousands on useless skills is very easy to do if you're not a moron and can look at things objectively. A degree is a necessity for a few jobs but there are many others you can excel at without it. Also different educational paths exist like trade schools if you don't trust yourself to make a good decision.

[@runelt99]

11:46 "If i landed a di-"

[@TheWolfWon]

Demon Mama is not as smart as she thinks.

[@RoyGBiv-lc8tv]

She brought up the coconut island analogy lmao. I disagree with the premise but I always enjoy listening to Vaush explain it haha.

[@nick-ut7kx]

47:24 how did he know?

[@derrickjohnson4952]

11:45 that’s what I say every time ?! What if the group votes you get nothing cause idk we hate you ?!

[@OGYouTubeEnjoyer]

>DemonManInDress All I need to dismiss and not care.

[@ikedogman1]

Did you ever notice that when anti-capitalists give you examples of what they would like the world to be like they list off things that are all parts of how capitalism works? If you pay attention they do that A LOT.

[@hamasaken]

during medival times chistianity was realy big do gay people realy think during those times things were better?

[@Reese842]

In the US, families are getting the child tax credit which is like a ubi in a way. It's saying, "hey this $300 per child every month is a necessary amt to end child hunger and provide means for families to remiain homed" I'm fine with it as a person with no children and I support this with no strings attached like means testing or job requirements etc

[@Reese842]

@Shawn Brink prevented 2 million children from going without food.

[@ScatterBrainedYouBetterFollow]

Imagine if your were an isolated mentally ill person who wants to sewerslide but all your friends are like “Boo hoo everyone suffers under capitalism”

[@PoliteAF]

"externalized" boom

[@CrestOfArtorias]

The coconut island analogy is very badly constructed and displays a child's understanding of economics and sociology for that matter. But the analogy can be fixed. If we were to construct an analogy that seeks to compare what it is supposed to compare the analogy would something like this. You have one island. On that island there is nothing but coconut trees. Some are owned by one guy (the private market) and some are owned by another guy (the state). There is another guy willing to loan coconuts to you and some of the coconut trees are for sale. In order to satisfy your hunger you can: - get coconuts from one person for labour - get coconuts for the other person for labour - loan coconuts and invest them into coconut trees to employ labour and have coconuts yourself You also have a second island. On that island one person has gathered all the coconuts (the state). He is willing to give out some of them based on your position on a chart he and the rest of the island came up with once. You notice that people invest labour to get these coconuts in order for the guy to distribute them. Much more accurate.

[@BuddleDuddle]

Wasn't the coconut analogy at one point meant to illustrate what could happen in an ancap society? I remember Vaush first using it in debates against ancaps, but I could be remembering incorrectly. It certainly falls flat when we consider the US economy as it currently exists and try to use the coconut analogy there, but in an argument against a hypothetical ancap society would it not hold up a little better there?

[@z14key]

The analogy doesn’t completely map on to the way economies work but I don’t think that’s its purpose. It’s trying to demonstrate how, in a world where coconuts are the only the thing to satiate hunger individuals who own coconuts have an incredible amount of influence over those who don’t. Where I disagree with Demonmama is that a world can exist with people who can have coconuts without giving something to the system. Unless of course we’re talking about a post scarcity world.

[@BuddleDuddle]

@@z14key ah, after some thought I do think you're correct on what the analogy is actually trying to illustrate. I think I just misunderstood the point you were trying to convey and that muddled up my understanding of this topic as a whole. I thought you were trying to make the analogy match more closely to the way our US economy works now, but after this follow up comment I now understand what your actual aim was. Thank you for your clarification!

[@z14key]

@@BuddleDuddle No problem!

[@jadavison]

Sure, none of things existed before capitalism.

[@masamune5710]

Worker credits BINGCHILLING

[@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274]

Next their gonna say women had it better under the monarchy system

[@janmalawski4339]

Is she transitioned Vaush from alternative timeline?

[@555salt]

Chirizo I Mexico is an anarchist town in Mexico, no govt influence and no cartels allowed in, their crime rate is lower than surrounding areas and average wage is higher. So far we have better evidence that anarchy helps than communism does.

[@jghgiroot6735]

"It is an anarchist town within mexico" kind of already fails the test, given Mexico is a state, who still ultimately do maintain authority over the town. Also something working in a "a small town in mexico" doesnt really equate to it working in every major world government.

[@555salt]

@@jghgiroot6735 20,000 + people. they have kept police, politicians, and cartels out for 15 years. When all of the worlds landmasses are taken up by a flag, it would be impossible for an anarchist colony to pop up anywhere but inside of a country

[@DOwhutnow]

So does the ability to be the unique identity that you are and have the federal government pave the way for you........

[@John1873--]

Lets be honest... for some people - you could give them their socialist or communist dream - they'd then suggest that is the ailment of all of societies problems... unless they're stubborn and deflect... There's far too many people, who have no idea where to even begin, but are the first to pipe up and tell everyone else what the problem is. It reminds me of the teacher's pet... except they are the pet AND the teacher...

[@chompers5568]

You guys just don't know how hard it is for femmes, my femmes know where I'm coming from.

[@coimbralaw]

DemonMama’s opinions are so cringe

[@silverlightsun]

Read Ayn Rand. Ur Welcome. You want true and pure capitalism. I think. -> Ayn Rand, capitalism the unknown ideal

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Neat.

[@legendhero-eu1lc]

Oh no, moments of this video are so very very horrible and so very very terrible.

[@iz2333]

The idea that socialism must be a centrally planned economy is just idiotic. Workers owning the means of production is not even a necessary part of planned economies.

[@coimbralaw]

Go back and re-read socialist treaties and come back and spew your ignorance again.

[@gaussminigun]

Isnt it just unfair that coes eat grass while lions eat cows? SO UNFAIR

[@rastafarisecret]

Fake intellecutuals talking😂

[@MoonshineH]

Are all of Destiny's streams just hate watching leftists all day?

[@Stop_Gooning]

As opposed to...?

[@Stop_Gooning]

@@konitrix3166 IDK darkest dungeon made me want to die. At least league isn't the the exact same rpg fight over and over and over and over and over and over...... And that's coming from someone who also hates league

[@Goy_1Da]

“She” lol

[@FeldiArts]

Uhm... I think Demonmama is broken.... because all I hear is wordsalad in the first 4 minutes

[@forthelulz5411]

"Semen Trauma"

[@Ed-en8br]

ah yes, as we all know, there was no such thing as racism misogyny and sexism in the pre capitalism era. what a dogshit take lmfao

[@beepboop5038]

It all actually does come from capitalism. Trying to pin point what category the details of someone’s ideal system falls in is a waste of time.

[@mikekel8036]

3k a month is not free, usually strings attached under what system is the country running? capitalism? Socialism? If socialism, how would you go about wanting to earn substantially more than your neighbour? 3k a month is not enough for people to do w.e they want, what if someone wants to go parachuting everyday, or go gamble a few hundreds of thousands in vegas, or get a yacht or 2? 3k will not cover this, not even close If everyone gets 3k a month, printed out of thin air, wouldn't that make imported goods more expensive as the value of the dollar would go down with every passing month? Just basic human psychology would show that if people get money for nothing, they would become lazy in general, or at least less incentivized to do anything productive.

[@MomMom-qm5wv]

"Just basic human psychology" hahaha only people that have not read anything about the given field give useless arrogant statements like that.

[@leoalphaproductions8642]

Watching internet bros debate over finance and economics is cringe. These people should stick to gaming and cooming. Leave the real nuanced topics for experts - or at least for people who actually know wtf they’re talking about and aren’t just ideological “muh philosophy” majors. These people have no clue about how the real world actually works.

[@Isaxololt]

Isn't that just a co-op? What there describing

[@pepelechad536]

I wonder if deadbeatdadism comes from capitalism as well... 🤔

[@JKSmith-qs2ii]

Troons man ffs.

[@darkprototype5353]

...so before capitalism people were just hunky dory?

[@mariomario1462]

Destiny has a giant ego lol

[@iamthedave3]

They all do. I think it's required to survive in that environment.

[@anglos6561]

DM is so gross I just don’t like them

[@bearj.4363]

She just talks and talks and talks and talks and says NOTHING 😂

[@Goy_1Da]

“She” lmao